[01:45] <ScottL> ailo, it is exciting...although "exiting" was pretty LOL
[01:45] <ScottL> ailo, "natty+1"...yeah, i don't like oneriec (sp?) ocelot...it's too damn hard to spell and type
[01:47] <ailo> ScottL, Haven't yet learned to remember oneriec. Trying to install Gnome3 now, but wasn't as easy as I thought on Natty
[01:47] <ScottL> i'm also thinking through a plan to test gnome3 on ubuntu...i think ailo's suggestion of command line install, add ppa, then add gnome3
[01:48] <ailo> ScottL, That didn't work for me
[01:48] <holstein> gnome 3 is buggy
[01:48] <ScottL> i'm doing a google search to see what else is there
[01:48] <holstein> and so much like unity really
[01:48] <ScottL> holstein, i downloaded the fedore gnome3 and it seemed pretty stable for the brief time i used it
[01:48] <holstein> ScottL: i used it a little longer ;)
[01:49] <holstein> maybe buggy isnt the right word
[01:49] <holstein> just kinda flat
[01:49] <holstein> but, it is new
[01:49] <ScottL> holstein, LMAO
[01:56] <ailo> I'm going to try installing from a regular Ubuntu this time.
[01:57] <ScottL> ailo, i'm really wondering if xubuntu won't be a better base since it shouldn't include any unity packages
[01:58] <ScottL> and i wish someone else would do a full install from dvd and see if the plymouth theme works or just shows a baby blue screen :/
[01:58] <ailo> ScottL, The plymouth doesn't seem to work, the last I checked
[01:59] <ScottL> i was afraid of that
[01:59] <ScottL> it worked at one time but then stopped and i've done google searches to try to find if this was experienced (and fixed) by others, but no luck
[01:59] <ailo> ScottL, I'm sure xubuntu is the better choice, but there's no harm in checking out Gnome3 and see what you can do with it. If Gnome3 is to be used, someone would need to make sure it can be used. So, if no one does that, Gnome3 wouldn't be an option anyway
[02:00] <ailo> ScottL, It worked for me a long time ago, but I haven't done that many fresh installs since then
[02:00] <ailo> ScottL, The latest install didn't seem to work.
[02:01] <ScottL> ailo, lol, i meant xubuntu would be a better base from which to install gnome 3 for testing :P
[02:02] <ailo> ScottL, Ah, that's a good idea :)
[02:03] <ailo> ScottL, I think I will try Xubuntu, then
[02:03] <ailo> Fun to see what that looks like as well
[02:22] <ailo> ScottL, I must have not got the right picture about these derivatives before. I suppose not anyone can just start one and have it hosted at Canonical, since why would they need multiple versions with Gnome and so on, but still, I suppose anyone can propose to start one?
[02:22] <ailo> I also realized now, that xubuntu has both alternative and desktop installs
[03:03] <ScottL> ailo, xubuntu has an alternate install?  i didn't know that, i thought they were all desktop
[03:04] <ScottL> but yes, derivatives (or flavours, don't know the "official"ly correct term) have to be approved to be built and hosted
[03:04] <ScottL> i believe ubuntu studio went through a bit of a vetting process, perhaps a little more than xubuntu and kubuntu, but i could be wrong
[03:06] <ailo> ScottL, Just looking at the pictures while installing Xubuntu gives me some nice vibes. It feels a lot better than what I am used to with FXCE.
[03:08] <ScottL> yeah, xubuntu is really not bad, it truly believe it will provide practically all the functionality of gnome as expected with a few notable differences
[03:09] <holstein> *lower overhead
[03:09] <holstein> *more customization options
[03:09] <ScottL> ailo, i'm really hoping that cory can come through with a fresh, rad UI that gives it some "WOW" factor and makes people appreciate it
[03:10] <ScottL> i have an idea on fixing the plymouth theme...at least i think it's broken (which is part of the problem i suppose)
[03:28] <ailo> Should have gone with the alternate installer. This one messed up my grub
[03:32] <holstein> ailo: i dont like the new trend with buntus
[03:32] <holstein> to not ask about grub
[03:36] <ScottL> holstein, i'm not sure i understand what you are saying
[03:37] <ailo> holstein, ScottL, It didn't ask, and it didn't make a good job installing it either. I ended up with grub rescue
[03:40] <holstein> yeah, used to be there was a little button
[03:40] <holstein> 'advanced'
[03:40] <holstein> and you could specify grub
[03:40] <holstein> or not
[03:40] <holstein> now, you gotta get an alt disc to even see the term grub
[03:49] <ailo> Tried rescuing, but no luck. Better use the alternate this time :(
[04:29] <ailo> hmm, the alternate installer is not detecting my harddrive, probably because a kernel module was unable to load. This was not my day. I'll leave Xubuntu for another day
[10:56] <abogani> The 39-lowlatency ~ppa4 should be compatible with nvidia.
[16:07] <ailo> abogani, I was testing the 39 on another machine yesterday. AMD 64 bits this time. I've been mostly testing on 32 bits. The 39 is not good at all on the 64 bit machine, while 38 is pretty much the same on both. 
[16:09] <abogani> ailo: Do you have any USB sound cards?
[16:10] <ailo> abogani, I used onboard and pci cards to test on the 64 bit machine. On the 32 bit I use mainly onboard, since the pci card on that does not work well in low latencies.
[16:10] <ailo> Sadly, no usb or firewire devices
[16:12] <abogani> Arrggghhhhhhhh
[16:13] <abogani> Launchpad have f***ed me!
[16:13] <abogani> ailo: I really apologize 39-lowlatency seems misconfigured!
[16:14] <abogani> I havne't noticed it yet!
[16:14] <ailo> abogani, Really? So, both 32 bits and 64 bits are -generic? I was looking through the config, but didn't compare the two.
[16:14] <abogani> ailo: Could you pastebin output of "grep PREEMPT /boot/config-2.6.39-0-lowlatency", please?
[16:15] <ailo> # CONFIG_PREEMPT_RCU is not set
[16:15] <ailo> CONFIG_PREEMPT_NOTIFIERS=y
[16:15] <ailo> # CONFIG_PREEMPT_NONE is not set
[16:15] <ailo> CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY=y
[16:15] <ailo> # CONFIG_PREEMPT is not set
[16:16] <abogani> ailo: Sorry sorry sorry
[16:16] <abogani> I have made a big mistake!
[16:17] <abogani> ailo: Sorry to have waste your time. :-(
[16:17] <abogani> ailo: I pray you to excuse me.
[16:17] <ailo> abogani, No, not at all. I am expecting that there will be problems on the way.
[16:17] <abogani> In fact this is -generic + threadirqs
[16:18] <ailo> abogani, I am happy to test -generic as well. So, that is good too.
[16:20] <abogani> ailo: I'll fix this tonight.
[16:21]  * abogani is very displeased
[16:22] <ailo> abogani, No hurry. At this moment I am trying to figure out how to install gnome3 on Ubuntu. I will probably be occupied with that for a while anyway. Still haven't found someone who would be a good candidate to test the kernels. holstein might be.
[16:22] <abogani> ailo: Ok
[17:03] <ailo> holstein, Have you been thinking about learning how to package?
[17:03] <ailo> Or, do you do some of that already?
[17:03] <holstein> ailo: im always thinking about learning stuff
[17:04] <holstein> i dont do that at all yet
[17:05] <ailo> holstein, I'm learning about it now. Trying to get a package uploaded to launchpad later. Is there something you would have liked to package at any point?
[17:05] <ailo> holstein, lf so, I was thinking, we could share some knowledge and hints
[17:06] <holstein> ailo: i was going to try for butt
[17:06] <holstein> *broadcast using this tool
[17:06] <holstein> i thought it would be easy
[17:07] <ailo> holstein, Not in the repo?
[17:07] <holstein> ailo: wasnt
[17:07] <holstein> its really click and run though
[17:07] <holstein> from the DL
[17:08] <ailo> holstein, Where can I find the source?
[17:08] <ailo> holstein, Must be this http://code.google.com/p/butt/
[17:10] <ailo> holstein, butt looks like nice way to start. I'm doing something similar now, from scratch, so I can assist you later. I could write a step by step thing, which I will have use for myself as well.
[17:15] <holstein> phone...
[17:15] <holstein> sorry
[17:15] <holstein> ailo: i dont see a better place for the source
[17:15] <holstein> i emailed the guy
[17:15] <holstein> about taking the project on
[17:15] <holstein> i didnt really want to traditionally fork it
[17:15] <holstein> but, that what he said i could do
[17:16] <holstein> not really continue it as is
[17:16] <ailo> holstein, Seems like he hasn't been busy with it for a few years
[17:16] <holstein> its dead
[17:16] <holstein> he announced it
[17:16] <holstein> he's not working on it anymore
[17:17] <ailo> holstein, So, you would like to work on the code too?
[17:17] <ailo> holstein, Is there anything you would like to add, or are there some bugs?
[17:17] <holstein> i would like to do all kinds of things
[17:17] <holstein> not sure what i can handle though
[17:18] <holstein> ailo: its nice the way it is
[17:18] <holstein> maybe just updated the UI a bit
[17:18] <holstein> come up with a better name
[17:18] <holstein> no bugs that i found
[17:19] <ailo> c++ and QT. C++ might be a little challenging, mainly because there may be so many aspects of it, not just learning where to add functions and what type of functions
[17:19] <holstein> yup
[17:19] <holstein> it seemed easy
[17:19] <holstein> but, when i looked at it
[17:19] <holstein> it was still pretty far over my head
[17:20] <ailo> holstein, It does look easy. I have wanted to learn C and C++, but haven't found a project yet. -controls was perfect for me learning about Python, which is a help when learning C later, I think.
[17:20] <holstein> ailo: well, thats an option then
[17:21] <holstein> and maybe i could just look over your shoulder
[17:21] <ailo> I was going to make libraries to puredata, which are done in C. That's pretty much the only thing I could think of coding in C.
[17:23] <ailo> holstein, I might be able to help with Python at least. I'll have a look at BUTT later. If it looks readable, I could help out with that too. I'm interested in learning, anyway.
[17:24] <ailo> Packaging it should be no problem, at least
[17:24] <holstein> even the backporting was a bit over my head really
[17:25] <holstein> i just have *no* background in coding at all
[17:25] <holstein> i know minimal html
[17:26] <ailo> holstein, I found it was like getting over a threshold. Once you get over, things start rolling by itself. The biggest problem is when doing it all yourself, even a minor misunderstanding can cause the whole thing to halt, and when things take too much time, you loose motivation.
[17:27] <holstein> yeah
[17:27] <holstein> and i'll make a little progress
[17:27] <holstein> and then i'll be working for 2 weeks straight or so
[17:27] <holstein> and forget what i learned ;)
[17:29] <ailo> I can't remember details and always need to look at some reference, but once you get a picture of the whole, you don't need to remember the details anyway.
[17:29] <holstein> like i was saying the other day in the OSMP channel
[17:29] <holstein> you guys just 'know' it
[17:29] <holstein> because you do it all the time
[17:29] <holstein> its not even so much memorizing
[17:30] <holstein> its just living it
[17:30] <holstein> like with songs/tunes for me
[17:30] <holstein> its not like i have a ton of tunes memorized
[17:30] <holstein> i just play them all the time
[17:30] <holstein> and i know them
[17:30] <ailo> When I was setting up my server, I'm so glad I wrote everything up and made some scripts. The whole period is like a black hole. No way I could remember everything. 
[17:31] <holstein> yeah, i did a couple test server installs like that
[17:31] <holstein> dont remember jack about it
[17:31] <holstein> now i just get those turnkey linux images :)
[17:32] <ailo> It's when you have to go through such a huge amount of information, and you only need to do it once, there's no way you will remember.
[17:32] <ailo> With programming, it can be like that, in the beginning, because you need to learn too much at once.
[17:32] <ailo> Hard to get the big picture, because of all the details
[17:33] <ailo> But, give it a little time, and suddenly it isn't as complicated as it first seems
[21:32] <ScottL> ailo, i installed maverick and then installed gnome3 and now i'm updating
[21:32] <ScottL> i added tried following a tutorial and installed a ppa but the package they said to install wasn't there
[21:33] <ailo> ScottL, Normal Ubuntu Maverick?
[21:33] <ScottL> so on a whim i just opene synatpc and looked for gnome3
[21:33] <ailo> ScottL, I had some dependency problem.
[21:33] <ScottL> ailo, aya, regular maverick
[21:33] <ailo> ScottL, I was told to install gnome-shell in one tutorial. Don't know how the packages are set up.
[21:34] <ScottL> shrug, i just looked for gnome3 in synaptic, found a package and installed it
[21:34] <ScottL> i didn't care if i borked it, it's a test machine and i had just completely wiped everything when installing it
[21:37] <ailo> ScottL, I think I will take that approach too now. I have a nice system where my computers are synced with my servers. So, I don't need to manually back anything up. Just run a script after a new install, and I get most of my system up and running.
[21:37] <ailo> server*
[21:38] <falktx> hey there
[21:38] <ailo> Without that, I can't keep track of my files. I just end up deleting everything,
[21:38] <ailo> hey falktx 
[21:38] <falktx> i have bad news
[21:39] <falktx> my laptop broke again... :(
[21:39] <ScottL> aww, that's shitty falktx :(
[21:39] <falktx> yeah...
[21:39] <falktx> so many things left undone
[21:40] <falktx> now 1 more week (at least) computer free
[21:40] <ailo> Is it the same one? How old is it? What breaks?
[21:42] <falktx> ailo: internal disk is giving issues
[21:43] <falktx> apt-get fails with I/O error
[21:43] <falktx> lots of apps don't start, and other errors
[21:43] <ailo> falktx, How about running from usb stick? What is it called, when you can save settings and so on?
[21:44] <ailo> Good backup, if nothing else
[21:44] <falktx> ailo: I'll still need my laptop 
[21:44] <falktx> ailo: not sure If I can send just the HD for repair...
[21:44] <falktx> (still under warranty, I think)
[21:44] <holstein> persistent USB install
[21:44] <ailo> falktx, Ah, ok
[21:44] <holstein> falktx: hey, thats good news :)
[21:45] <falktx> holstein: ailo: i know about the USB rw live-cd, i used it before
[21:45] <falktx> holstein: lol...
[22:01] <ailo> ScottL, So, you got Gnome3 up and running, then?
[22:02] <ScottL> ailo, i updated, then rebooted, then had to answer a phone call from work  (it's that big project still :(  )
[22:03] <ailo> ScottL, Lemme know if it works. I'm getting tired of failed installs :P
[22:03] <ScottL> ailo, lol
[22:04]  * ScottL is own a conference call right and i'm probably going to have to go into the office tomorrow :(
[22:04] <ScottL> today was suppossed to be my day off and i spent 5.5 hours at work 
[22:04] <ailo> ScottL, It's always good to be busy.
[22:06] <ScottL> yeah, the alternate sucks pretty heavily :P
[22:06] <ScottL> i'm wondering how i'm going to play minecraft on the gnome3 machine :?
[22:15] <ScottL> ailo, it seems to be working, not as smooth or suave as the (current) fedora spin
[22:16] <ailo> I will probably have no luch on the machine I will try on anyway, since I had problems with the Fedora live image. Broken graphics
[22:16] <ScottL> maybe i haven't turned something on that fefora has on by default
[22:22]  * falktx found a nice benchmark
[22:22] <falktx> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_natty_pae64&num=1
[22:22] <falktx> ^ ubuntu 11.04 32bit vs 32bit with PAE vs 64bit
[22:22] <falktx> recommended
[22:26] <falktx> really shows off the power of 64bit
[22:31] <holstein> yeah, i checked that out
[22:32] <holstein> and felt good about my 64bit decision on my studio rig
[22:32] <holstein> even though i need to get some ram
[22:42] <ScottL> oho, minecraft runs really slow on gnome3...therefore i don't like gnome3
[22:42] <ScottL> j/k
[22:42] <ailo> ScottL, No good drivers too, right?
[22:43] <ailo> ScottL, Price of freedom. Shitty graphics
[22:43] <ScottL> gnome3 works well, i think everything else would probably work well...minecraft is just really java heavy
[22:45] <ScottL> i'm going to install natty as well on the hard drive and use that for development and for minecraft :P
[22:47] <ailo> ScottL, I have to stay away from games. I get loony. 
[22:53]  * falktx believe people should really try kde
[22:54] <ailo> falktx, I will install KXStudio today. That, and Gnome3, if I am able.
[22:54] <ailo> On separate partitions, of course
[22:55] <falktx> ailo: kxstudio still uses lucid...
[23:03] <ScottL>  but kxstudio looks really nice and has mad functionality because falktx put it everything that canonical doesn't want in there :P
[23:03] <falktx> hehe
[23:03] <falktx> the only "issue" will be the *LOT*s of updates you'll have after install
[23:04] <falktx> I really hope to release another kxstudio version soon
[23:04] <ailo> falktx, Natty?
[23:05] <falktx> yes
[23:05] <falktx> but a final version for lucid too, to include the latest updates