[00:10] <HazRPG> \o
[00:12] <hamitron> evening haz
[00:12] <Seeker`> Anyone see "Campus"?
[00:36] <hamitron> laters all o/
[01:24] <ali1234> uh... so steam guard is equivalent to clicking "i forgot my password please send me a new one by email" every time i log in?
[01:29] <HazRPG> ali1234: pretty much, cutting edge right!?
[01:30] <HazRPG> I giggled the first time I saw it too
[01:31] <HazRPG> although in a sense its sorta like an authenticator... if you take away the fact that you don't have to put the code in, nor do you have a generator
[01:32] <ali1234> why don't they just implement openid?
[01:33] <ali1234> SSO like openid works the same way as clicking "i forgot my password" (website sends you an auth token) - except it's all easy to use, and you don't have to wait for an email
[01:34] <gord> eh no?
[01:34] <gord> steam guard as far as i can tell is basically just linking steam accounts to computers
[01:34] <ali1234> not according to the faq
[01:35] <ali1234> well, kind of
[01:35] <gord> nope. checked. its a way of locking accounts to computers
[01:35] <ali1234> they send you an auth token by email but you only need it on an unrecognized computer, not every time you login
[01:35] <gord> i don't like it myself, just another thing for me to screw up
[01:36] <ali1234> wait... "Exit Steam, restart your computer, and log back into your account. This will generate a new verification email."
[01:37] <ali1234> maybe that's only true on unrecognized computers
[01:38] <HazRPG> yeah
[01:40] <HazRPG> I think it basically does like what StyleXP did, when you open it up on a new machine and login, it generates a key from the hardware ID of something on your computer
[01:40] <HazRPG> once you auth it, you basically say that you want that computer to be allowed to login as you
[01:41] <HazRPG> if someone else tries to login from somewhere else, you get an email, but they can't use it until you accept generated key
[01:41] <HazRPG> however StyleXP did this...
[01:41] <gord> sigh, i'm in windows tonight. i keep trying to get to my launcher by throwing my mouse to the top left
[01:41] <gord> windows is a pain :(
[01:42] <HazRPG> ...and a keygen was created for that :/
[01:42] <HazRPG> and so history might repeat itself
[01:42] <gord> HazRPG, this is differrent, built into the cpu
[01:42] <gord> intel tech that was basically made for anti-piracy
[01:43] <HazRPG> gord: I'm pretty sure StyleXP said the same thing...
[01:43] <gord> unless someone knows your id and can get their cpu (maybe in a virtual machine) to report the same id, iyou are fine
[01:43] <gord> HazRPG, no, this is very very different
[01:44] <HazRPG> hmm
[01:59] <ali1234> not just anti-piracy... it's quite important for ecommerce too...
[02:00] <ali1234> anyway steam guard doesn't use the intel stuff yet, as noted already
[02:17] <directhex> spoooooooooooooooooonguaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard
[02:19]  * MattJ looks at directhex and realises it's late
[02:19] <Azelphur> I just sent my first pull request on github \o/
[02:19] <MattJ> As long as you didn't send it to me
[02:19] <MattJ> I've already got a backlog
[02:20] <Azelphur> haha
[02:20] <Azelphur> feature for yaaic :D
[02:21] <MattJ> iPhone support? :)
[02:21] <Azelphur> hell no :D
[02:21] <Azelphur> connect on startup.
[08:25] <marsilainen> hi all
[08:25] <marsilainen> I don't suppose anyone has tried using 'sympa' mailing list manager on ubuntu?
[08:26] <marsilainen> the package in lucid seems broken somehow - when you install it, it starts it running but it crashes straight away with some sort of permissions issue
[08:26] <marsilainen> can't seem to find much info of other people using it on ubuntu or debian tbh
[08:35] <marsilainen> hmm, it looks like the config file is pointing at /usr/lib/sympa/... instead of /var/lib/sympa/...
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> sounds like a packaging bug, please file it
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> ubuntu-bug package_name_here
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> that said, most people use mailman :)
[09:24] <AlanBell> morning all
[09:24] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:25] <AlanBell> and what fun things are people up to this weekend?
[09:26] <czajkowski> going to a bbq late on
[09:26] <czajkowski> hoping the sun stays out
[09:26] <MartijnVdS> shouting at an old HP Evo
[09:28] <MartijnVdS> ("Compiz, Y U blacklist i830 graphics?")
[09:28] <czajkowski> there isa surrey lug meet up in redhat today also
[09:29] <czajkowski> in farnborough from 11-5 if folks want to drop in
[09:29] <AlanBell> interesting, there is an outside chance I could make that one for an hour or so
[09:36] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:37] <brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/755311
[09:37] <brobostigon> found another bug
[09:44] <DJones> Morning all
[09:45] <brobostigon> morning DJones
[09:49] <shauno> morning all
[09:49] <brobostigon> morning shauno
[10:07] <daubers> morning
[10:07] <brobostigon> morning daubers
[10:12]  * daubers potters into reading to pick up some warhammer figures
[10:58] <shauno> this is just getting more and more confusing.  natty doesn't seem to boot in vmware with raw disk mode either ;/
[11:08] <oimon> anyone running banshee 2.0?
[11:08] <MartijnVdS> \o
[11:08] <oimon> MartijnVdS: on lucid?
[11:08] <MartijnVdS> no, on natty
[11:09] <oimon> lucid seems to be missing from the repo :(
[11:09] <MartijnVdS> maybe its mono is too old?
[11:09] <oimon> karmic is there, seems to be an oversight
[11:09] <oimon> #banshee are sleeping
[11:10] <oimon> MartijnVdS: do you have files other than music/podcasts/audiobooks?
[11:10] <MartijnVdS> Music only
[11:10] <oimon> such as Seminars
[11:11] <MartijnVdS> and a few videos
[11:11] <MartijnVdS> it's slow enough as it is :P
[11:12] <marsilainen> I believe I have found an issue in an ubuntu package (sympa on lucid), and now I'm thinking I should test debian packages to see if the issue also exists there... which debian tree is the best to test against? stable? testing? unstable?
[11:12] <MartijnVdS> marsilainen: try unstable.. if it's fixed there, ubuntu can borrow the fix
[11:12] <marsilainen> ok, cool, thanks
[11:12] <oimon> i have lots of non music files in my library, but no where to put them
[11:12] <MartijnVdS> marsilainen: if it's not fixed there, Debian might want to fix it as well
[11:12] <MartijnVdS> oimon: What kind?
[11:13] <oimon>  Conferences/Seminars/Sermons etc
[11:13] <MartijnVdS> oimon: not-quite-audiobooks?
[11:13] <oimon> that's my point, i think audiobooks should be editable
[11:13] <oimon> people are just as likely to have audio files from conferences
[11:16] <MartijnVdS> I just play those in totem tbh
[11:16] <MartijnVdS> It's not something you listen to hundreds of times
[11:17] <oimon> if i'm working my way through 40 seminars, i need to keep them on a playlist and record the "played" count.. amarok used to do this well
[11:17] <shauno> I just have a playlist that matches anything that has the genre set to 'spoken word'.  works well enough for me
[11:18] <MartijnVdS> shauno: ooh, good idea
[11:18] <oimon> shauno: can you exclude them from the music library?
[11:18] <shauno> oimon: sort of  (I should point out this isn't banshee, but just food for thought)
[11:18] <MartijnVdS> oimon: if you put them in the audiobooks part they're not in the music bit
[11:19] <oimon> MartijnVdS: i need to phyiscally separate them though, right? Audiobooks folder not in mp3 folder
[11:19] <MartijnVdS> oimon: I think you can just drag things from one to the other in banshee and it magically works
[11:19] <MartijnVdS> oimon: you can set the "audiobooks" folder in the preferences
[11:20] <shauno> I don't really see the problem with just letting it call them audiobooks :/
[11:22] <shauno> if it's not tracking which have been played before, that'd be a pretty sensible thing to bring up as a feature request, it'd also be equally applicable to audiobooks
[11:23] <oimon> i think it's a bug..audiobooks remains empty even after importing media
[11:23] <MartijnVdS> oimon: no, you have to name them properly
[11:23] <MartijnVdS> oimon: in the preferences, you see how it expects them
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> oimon: put them in ~/Audiobooks/Author Von Lastname - Title of Book/Chapter 1.mp3
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> and "Chapter 2.mp3"
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> etc.
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> (you can use the names of the chapters if you like)
[11:24] <oimon> but they aren't books :(
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> Pretend that they are :)
[11:24]  * oimon tries
[11:24] <brobostigon> weird alert tone i have choosen for k9-mail, it sounds like a drop of water hitting a surface of water.
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> "Name von Conference - Seminars/Seminar A.mp3"
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> etc.
[11:28] <oimon> still fail
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> oimon: how?
[11:28] <MartijnVdS> they don't show up?
[11:28] <oimon> Joe Bloggs - Seminar/test.mp3
[11:29] <oimon> yep - nothing there
[11:29]  * oimon checks bugzilla
[11:29] <MartijnVdS> try "Reload collection" in the menu
[11:29] <MartijnVdS> oimon: make sure it's in the ~/Audiobooks directory (check in the preferences if that's where it expects audio books)
[11:29] <oimon> yep done that
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> It'll also give you an example filename in that dialog
[11:30] <oimon> i've read a 1 yr old web page that says you need to drag them in
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> (some Harry Potter chaper 8-))
[11:30] <oimon> MartijnVdS: are yours working?
[11:30] <oimon> i'm on 1.9.4
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> the one I have works
[11:30] <oimon> since 1.9.4?
[11:31] <MartijnVdS> 2.0.0
[11:32] <oimon> i dragged one in and it works
[11:32] <oimon> i think it's 1.9.4 fail
[11:32] <oimon> i'll wait for them to fix the 2.0 builds for lucid
[11:32] <oimon> thanks for the assistance
[11:34] <shauno> I'm installing sarge because natty doesn't boot on my hardware.  how backwards is that :/
[11:34] <directhex> sarge?
[11:35] <shauno> ahh it's not sarge .. whatever stable is now
[11:35] <brobostigon> squeese
[11:36] <shauno> can't believe they've managed 3 releases while I wasn't watching.  last time I used debian, releases were glacial
[11:37] <oimon> sarge-lenny-squeeze, which am i missing
[11:37] <shauno> etch
[11:37] <oimon> ah
[11:42] <oimon> laptops and dressing gowns dont mix well...sounds like the fan is about to come off it's spindle
[11:44] <HazRPG> hmm?
[11:45] <brobostigon> good morning HazRPG :)
[11:46] <HazRPG> brobostigon: sup dude
[11:46] <brobostigon> HazRPG: nought much, justwatcing click, and you?
[11:46] <HazRPG> just woke up ^^
[11:46]  * brobostigon gets HazRPG a mug of coffee.
[11:47] <HazRPG> brobostigon: \o/
[11:47] <brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
[11:47]  * daubers orders an OS map
[11:49] <HazRPG> daubers: OS map?
[11:49] <HazRPG> apparently I missed my ubuntu delivery :(
[11:50] <brobostigon> HazRPG: :(
[11:50] <brobostigon> HazRPG: ordnance survey.
[11:50] <HazRPG> although apparently they shut at 2pm on a Saturday... but I can't go until 1:15pm apparently (wait 4hrs it says on the  bottom)
[11:50] <daubers> HazRPG: Yup, one of those oldey fashiondey paper maps
[11:51] <HazRPG> brobostigon: ordnance survey?
[11:51] <brobostigon> HazRPG: daubers type of maphe orderd.
[11:51] <HazRPG> ah
[11:51] <daubers> http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/
[11:51] <shauno> like google maps, but more battery-efficient
[11:52] <HazRPG> "killing the rain forest!"
[11:52] <HazRPG> lol
[11:53] <HazRPG> heh, I wonder if there's a map for the kindle xD
[11:54] <daubers> HazRPG: I'd love to know how much rainforest is destroyed in the search for things like tungsten and indium
[11:55] <HazRPG> Was it bigcalm that ordered the N3DS? I've noticed he hasn't said much since that released :P
[11:55] <oimon> are there any games for it?
[11:57] <HazRPG> oimon: Rayman 3D?
[11:58] <HazRPG> Street Fighter 4: 3D Edition
[11:58] <oimon> not sure if ur trolling me or not :P
[11:58] <shauno> gah, that didn't work either.  installs, but doesn't boot
[11:58] <HazRPG> lol
[11:59] <HazRPG> oimon: I just opened game.co.uk and quoted what I saw for 3DS on the home page :P
[12:00] <HazRPG> heh that's bad, I would have thought a mario game would have come out on release of the thing
[12:00] <HazRPG> seems not
[12:01] <gord> nintendo rarely release new mario/zelda games with their consoles
[12:01] <gord> takes too long to make them
[12:02] <HazRPG> gord: Super Mario 64 came out on release :P
[12:02] <gord> rarely but not never :)
[12:03] <HazRPG> you'd think they would though, since the company that's going to know about their new console releases before the 3rd parties is obviously going to be nintendo
[12:03] <HazRPG> I know Sega pretty much did
[12:03] <HazRPG> always had a sonic game during release
[12:04] <shauno> any ideas what'd stop ubuntu even getting off the boot menu?
[12:04]  * HazRPG considers picking up his dreamcast controller over there <==
[12:04] <gord> like i said, takes too long to make them, you can only start working on console games once you have it basically finished, so you have a choice, delay the console until your games are ready, or release early and start making money sooner
[12:06] <HazRPG> I guess
[12:07] <HazRPG> someone go pick my ubuntu hoody + tee for me :P
[12:07] <gord> they should of maybe waited a few months for their main lineup to be ready, but i guess they don't want to be competing directly at launch with ngp
[12:07] <shauno> if I boot from CD, pick install from the menu, the resolution changes but it doesn't leave the menu.  it just stops accepting keyboard interaction, and just sits there :/
[12:07] <gord> ah, wearing my 0 ubuntu shirt today, must be laundry day
[12:08] <HazRPG> shauno: weird
[12:08] <HazRPG> shauno: this on your laptop?
[12:09] <HazRPG> shauno: how much have you got to nit-pick in your bios?
[12:09] <shauno> sort of.  this is using vmware using raw disk access
[12:09] <shauno> there is no bios
[12:09] <HazRPG> shauno: could just need something turned off there
[12:09] <HazRPG> shauno: ...what? How?
[12:10] <shauno> debian boots in the same configuration.  ubuntu just hangs on the menu :/
[12:10] <HazRPG> shauno: how bout booting into the live environment and run the install that way?
[12:11] <HazRPG> shauno: could just be a but in the "installer"
[12:11] <shauno> same problem.  it doesn't leave the menu
[12:11] <HazRPG> shauno: *waves a mint iso at you*
[12:13] <shauno> guess I should burn another daily & go back to trying to beg them to see my cdrom, since I can't seem to install via vmware anymore :(
[12:14] <HazRPG> can't you just stick the a loopback in your mac bootloader to the iso and boot it up that way?
[12:15] <shauno> heh, I'm not writing efi drivers for this :)
[12:16] <HazRPG> heh
[12:17] <HazRPG> well I'm going to see what the fuss is with a Mint Debian 10
[12:20] <HazRPG> heh, well apparently I goofed
[12:20] <HazRPG> apparently I downloaded linux mint 10 gnome
[12:20] <HazRPG> so the standard one...
[12:20] <HazRPG> blah
[12:20]  * HazRPG runs off to grab the debian version
[12:21] <HazRPG> I'll test the actual Debian distro, see what that's like in the mean time
[12:21] <HazRPG> never actually used Debian raw... this could be fun :)
[12:24] <shauno> well, here goes
[12:29] <HazRPG> cool well I broke LMG10
[12:30] <HazRPG> rofl
[12:33] <HazRPG> shauno: still can't believe your having issues with this in a VM
[12:34] <HazRPG> I thought the problems were trying to install it locally
[12:37] <HazRPG> ooo hang on a second
[12:37] <HazRPG> Arabic isn't on the list of things you can install any more!
[12:37] <HazRPG> ????
[12:37] <HazRPG> I can't go around to my family that are in Egypt saying ubuntu is amazing and fantastic if its not going to support the language!
[12:38] <gord> you mean you can't set the locale?
[12:38] <gord> that seems like something thats broken
[12:38] <HazRPG> on the liveCD you the option for booting it up in arabic isn't there, nor is it there for install
[12:39] <directhex> HazRPG, check with -devel?
[12:39] <gord> yeah thats a bug then
[12:39] <gord> or maybe its moved?
[12:39] <HazRPG> hmm, it has
[12:39] <HazRPG> its no longer at the top
[12:39] <HazRPG> and its actually written in arabic
[12:39] <HazRPG> that'll be why I missed it
[12:39] <gord> haha
[12:39] <directhex> HazRPG, isn't that better?
[12:39] <gord> :P
[12:39] <HazRPG> directhex: yeah it is :P
[12:40] <HazRPG> my brains not attuned to reading arabic
[12:40] <phonex01> helo guys
[12:40] <phonex01> hi HazPRG
[12:40] <phonex01> how are you ?
[12:40] <HazRPG> phonex01: hey dude, I'm alright how's you?
[12:40] <directhex> argh, dealing with arabic in an LTR system is so weird
[12:40] <phonex01> im fine alhmddleah
[12:40] <shauno> it's still 'arabic' on mine, but in second place because 'amharic' has knocked it off the top-spot (alphabetically)
[12:40] <HazRPG> phonex01: just testing out natty in a liveCD
[12:40] <directhex> e.g. if i paste أبجدية on its own, my tex box becomes right-to-left
[12:40] <phonex01> oh yah
[12:41] <directhex> أبجديةnow i'm hella confused
[12:41] <directhex> o_O
[12:41] <HazRPG> lol
[12:41] <phonex01> hi direchex what is your problem ?
[12:41] <HazRPG> directhex: he's not use to RTL
[12:42] <phonex01> he is trying to change RTL ?
[12:42] <HazRPG> also, I don't know what "abgadi" means
[12:42] <phonex01> RTL > LTR ?
[12:42] <phonex01> abgadi means the basic arabic letters
[12:42] <directhex> HazRPG, a failed attempt to copy-paste from wikipedia. the copy-paste direction also changes over arabic text :(
[12:42] <HazRPG> phonex01: ah
[12:42] <phonex01> hi directhex
[12:42] <directhex> my poor brain
[12:43] <phonex01> are you using Firefox ?
[12:43] <HazRPG> directhex: yeah it does, gotta remember the whole arabic OS is flipped to the other side
[12:43] <directhex> HazRPG, my brain isn't cut out for this. i'm going back to bed
[12:43] <HazRPG> directhex: lol
[12:43] <phonex01> directhex you are arabic ?
[12:44] <directhex> phonex01, nope, so i really don't care about it. i was just playing about
[12:44] <directhex> phonex01, you missed the context from before you joined
[12:44] <phonex01> you was playing ! thats good
[12:44] <phonex01> i missed the context ?
[12:45] <phonex01> ok you tell me what is the context ?
[12:45] <phonex01> ok HazRPG im trying to connect my laptop into a huge LCD using S-Video
[12:46] <phonex01> connections is right and ubuntu can see that monitor
[12:46] <phonex01> but on the monitor "No signal"
[12:46] <phonex01> do you have any idea about that ?
[12:46] <HazRPG> phonex01: yeah he means the context of the conversation, I was saying I was testing natty and noticed arabic isn't on the top of the menu anymore
[12:47] <phonex01> i understand that
[12:47] <HazRPG> hmm, have you check the settings its trying to produce for that screen? Hz, resolution, etc
[12:47] <HazRPG> checked*
[12:47] <phonex01> ya ya i did
[12:48] <HazRPG> hmm
[12:48] <phonex01> hi i hate this hmmmmmmmm
[12:48] <phonex01> hahahah
[12:48] <HazRPG> installed copy of ubuntu, or liveCD?
[12:48] <phonex01> copy
[12:48] <phonex01> ubuntu 10.10
[12:49] <HazRPG> nvidia?
[12:49] <HazRPG> ATI?
[12:49] <HazRPG> Intel?
[12:49] <phonex01> ATI
[12:49] <phonex01> drivers are fully installed
[12:49] <HazRPG> using the proprietary drivers, or the open-sourced ones?
[12:50] <phonex01> i downloaded it from ATI website
[12:50] <phonex01> so its not the open-source
[12:50] <HazRPG> that might be the issue...
[12:50] <phonex01> why ?
[12:50] <HazRPG> the ones on the download section of ATI might not have been tested with ubuntu
[12:50] <phonex01> but everything is working good
[12:51] <phonex01> even im using blender
[12:51] <nucc1> is there some easy way of taming CPU fan speed?
[12:51] <HazRPG> if you go, System -> Admin -> Additional Drivers, you'll see the drivers that have been tested with ubuntu
[12:51] <phonex01> i can see it right now
[12:51] <phonex01> ok i will install it
[12:52] <phonex01> but if it does not work i will kill you hahhaha
[12:52] <HazRPG> haha, no it'll work
[12:52] <HazRPG> I'm not sure if it'll work for S-Video, but the main screen will at least work... and should hopefully narrow the problem down
[12:52] <phonex01> ok it is downloading
[12:53] <phonex01> hi nucc1
[12:54] <phonex01> your fan have noisy sound ?
[12:54] <HazRPG> nucc1: What's the problem exactly?
[12:55] <phonex01> he is not here anymore
[12:56] <nucc1> HazRPG, it's constantly running at full blast, unless i reduce my CPU's frequency to 33%
[12:57] <HazRPG> nucc1: are you over clocking ?
[12:57] <nucc1> HazRPG, nope.
[12:57] <nucc1> it's a standard HP laptop, running ubuntu 10.10, and no other modifications.
[12:58] <phonex01> is it HP Pavillon DV6 ?
[12:58] <nucc1> no, HP Compaq 6710b
[12:59] <HazRPG> nucc1: not sure on that one
[13:00] <HazRPG> has it always done that with ubuntu?
[13:00] <nucc1> yea, it always does.
[13:00] <HazRPG> is it just ubuntu that does it?
[13:00] <nucc1> yes, i don't recall windows vista doing it.
[13:01] <nucc1> i think ubuntu's thresholds for fan speed are too high?
[13:01] <nucc1> is there some tool i could use to reduce the speed?
[13:02] <nucc1> i just reduced cpu frequency to 800mhz and the noise dropped down noticably
[13:02] <gord> i think fan speed is normally controlled by the bios
[13:02] <gord> based on how hot the cpu is
[13:02] <phonex01> did you tried to check sensors settings ?
[13:02] <nucc1> currently says 75 degrees.
[13:02] <phonex01> /etc/sensors.conf ?
[13:03] <nucc1> phonex01, erm, what needs to be done in that file?
[13:04] <nucc1> gord in my bios, the only option related to the fan is "fan always on while on AC power"
[13:04] <phonex01> you use ubuntu 10.10 ?
[13:04] <nucc1> i disabled that.
[13:04] <nucc1> phonex01, yes, 10.10
[13:04] <phonex01> then go to /etc/sensors3.conf
[13:05] <nucc1> yes, i saw it, what do i need to do inside?
[13:05] <phonex01> wait a min
[13:07] <HazRPG> nucc1: the BIOS says your CPU is 75॰C ??
[13:08] <nucc1> HazRPG, the sensors.
[13:08] <HazRPG> that doesn't sound healthy somehow
[13:08] <nucc1> i'm using an applet in docky or is it awn?
[13:08] <HazRPG> that'll be why ubuntu is making the fans go on full speed
[13:08] <HazRPG> nucc1: how long has it been switched on?
[13:08] <HazRPG> also, what do you do with it?
[13:09] <nucc1> HazRPG, yea, but i have no idea why it's running so hot. i have the cpu freq pegged at the lowest setting.
[13:09] <nucc1> i just rebooted it. it typically stays on all the time
[13:09] <HazRPG> nucc1: right, I do the same usually on my HP laptop
[13:09] <phonex01> i had that problem before with hp pavillion dv6
[13:09] <phonex01> also with ubuntu
[13:09] <HazRPG> phonex01: heh I've got a dv6 :P
[13:10] <phonex01> i think i added something to sensors3.conf file
[13:10] <HazRPG> nucc1: open up system monitor (System -> Admin -> System Monitor)
[13:10] <phonex01> but i dont really remeber it
[13:10] <nucc1> HazRPG, temp1: 75 temp2: 62 temp3: 55 temp4: 40, temp 5: 80
[13:10] <HazRPG> and have a look to see what your processors are doing
[13:10] <nucc1> haz yea, processors are well below 50%.
[13:10] <nucc1> i've got a system monitor applet visible.
[13:10] <phonex01> you problem with the sensors conf
[13:10] <nucc1> estimates about 16%.
[13:11] <HazRPG> nucc1: hmm, that system applet usually takes up a fair bit of resources to refresh it... I'd slow down the refresh rates for it
[13:11] <nucc1> HazRPG, i set it to refresh in 5 second intervals.
[13:12] <HazRPG> nucc1: so you've put 5000ms in that box, that's weird
[13:12] <nucc1> HazRPG, yes.
[13:12] <HazRPG> nucc1: what processor is it?
[13:13] <nucc1> phonex01, my cpu is a core 2 duo, T7100
[13:13] <nucc1> 1.80ghz
[13:13] <nucc1> HazRPG, ^^
[13:14] <HazRPG> did you say that you reduced the frequency to 800MHz?
[13:14] <nucc1> yes
[13:14] <nucc1> it's been there since we were talking
[13:14] <HazRPG> seems that's the standard running rate, what was it  before you reduced it?
[13:15] <nucc1> speed reduced, but is still noticeably loud
[13:15] <nucc1> and temperature is still 75%
[13:15] <nucc1> 75 degrees
[13:15] <nucc1> room temperature should be about 18 degrees
[13:16] <nucc1> HazRPG, normally, it's "ondemand"
[13:16] <HazRPG> yeah, I'm trying to find what the regular operating temp. is for that processor
[13:16] <nucc1> but that causes the fan to be on far loud, far too often
[13:16] <HazRPG> I know mine (i7) is meant to idle at 55॰C
[13:17] <nucc1> ok, temps down to 60 degrees now.
[13:17] <HazRPG> nucc1: could be circulation that's causing it
[13:17] <nucc1> HazRPG, like dust?
[13:17] <HazRPG> is it on a desk or something?
[13:17] <nucc1> yea, it's on a desk
[13:17] <HazRPG> nucc1: that could be an issue too
[13:18] <nucc1> opening it up shouldn't be too much of an issue.
[13:18] <HazRPG> right ok found it
[13:18] <HazRPG> idle temp. is 30-50॰C
[13:19] <HazRPG> full utilisation is 60-70॰C
[13:19] <HazRPG> safe operating temperature is 100॰C and catastrophic is 125॰C
[13:19] <nucc1> i reckon i get it up to 90 sometimes
[13:19] <HazRPG> so from what I can see unless its hitting over 100॰C its fine
[13:20] <HazRPG> however as for your fans, I'd just live with it... ubuntu's just trying to stop it from burning itself out, if it really bothers you try and see if you can find some silent operating fans for it
[13:21] <nucc1> HazRPG, hmmm, i won't mind quieter fans.
[13:21] <HazRPG> nucc1: if you don't mind cracking the thing open, and try and see what size fans they are and see if you can find some to replace it with (quieter ones)
[13:22] <HazRPG> if your not up to doing that, try and see if there's a fix-it shop that'll do it in your area
[13:22] <nucc1> HazRPG, yea, i can open it up. i've got screw drivers and stuff.
[13:22] <HazRPG> unless someone who's watching knows of a way to stop the fans blurting out so fast... that's all I can think of really
[13:23] <nucc1> i found people complaining about the same issue on hp's forums http://forums11.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?admit=109447626+1302351754028+28353475&threadId=1134500
[13:23] <HazRPG> nucc1: that wasn't what I meant, I meant if you were confident enough to take it apart and not break it - otherwise I wouldn't recommend doing so :P
[13:23] <nucc1> HazRPG, lol. i am confident enough to take it apart. :)
[13:23] <HazRPG> nucc1: that's good then :)
[13:23] <nucc1> i've swapped hard drives and upgraded RAM before.
[13:24] <nucc1> trivial, i suppose, but not much different.
[13:24] <HazRPG> sometimes manufacturers usually put the cheapest fans in, which usually result in some really loud *insert swear word here*
[13:24] <nucc1> HazRPG, except that this is supposed to be an expensive business grade machine.
[13:24] <HazRPG> nucc1: so was mine :P
[13:25] <nucc1> he he
[13:25] <directhex> those guys are the worst for bad fans!
[13:25] <HazRPG> it came with Vista Business on mine
[13:25] <nucc1> hmmm.
[13:25] <directhex> the best machines are made for gamers. anything else is a crap shoot
[13:25] <HazRPG> nucc1: try and fine some faster quieter fans, and you'll be a happier bunny :)
[13:25] <HazRPG> find*
[13:25] <nucc1> yea.
[13:25] <directhex> wife's pc overheated & cut out last night :(
[13:26] <directhex> we were playing borderlands together, and bam!
[13:26] <HazRPG> directhex: ouch
[13:26] <nucc1> gotta power down then.
[13:26] <nucc1> thanks guys.
[13:26] <HazRPG> no problem
[13:26] <directhex> HazRPG, took it to bits, cleaned the heatsink, reapplied some new thermal paste, i THINK it's much better
[13:26] <HazRPG> blah gone lol
[13:26] <directhex> need a good load test for it...
[13:26] <HazRPG> directhex: run a Pi calculator on it :D
[13:27] <HazRPG> that's usually the best way to test its capacity
[13:27] <directhex> HazRPG, i need to stress the GPU also, as the case is EXTREMELY poor for gpu airflow
[13:27] <HazRPG> nothing like a recurring equation to test out the operation of a machine ;)
[13:27] <HazRPG> directhex: most usually are :(
[13:27] <HazRPG> directhex: also, borderlands ftw!!!
[13:28] <directhex> oh! i can run a borderlands benchmark...
[13:28] <HazRPG> I enjoy beating down low level scags when I'm bored :P
[13:28] <HazRPG> oh shoot!
[13:28] <HazRPG> delivery!
[13:28] <HazRPG> closes in like half hr!
[13:28] <HazRPG> argh!
[13:28] <HazRPG> run run run!
[13:28] <HazRPG> brb!
[13:30] <directhex> 7200 seconds of benchmarking should do it
[13:38] <directhex> nope, doesn't work that way
[13:38] <directhex> sod it, installing crysis
[13:42] <shauno> no idea why I'm even bothering to try 10.10.  rewritables rock :o)
[13:56] <AlanBell> 49
[13:59] <HazRPG> back
[13:59] <HazRPG> shauno: lol then why are you?
[13:59] <shauno> nowt else to do today
[14:00] <HazRPG> shauno: there's a point, try installing 10.10, then try and upgrade to natty!
[14:00] <shauno> it failed on the same error
[14:00] <HazRPG> oh
[14:00] <HazRPG> random!
[14:01]  * HazRPG goes to try on his new 'buntu hoody
[14:01] <shauno> not really.  technically it's good news, means no regression.  otherwise pretty much expected
[14:02] <HazRPG> technical term: apple hates ubuntu :P
[14:02] <gord> only because we stole their lynx trademark ;)
[14:03] <shauno> I think it's just not supporting a brand-new chipset.  there's nothing apple-specific there
[14:05] <HazRPG> okay... well slightly bigger than I thought... but not overly massive, so is pleased :)
[14:06] <HazRPG> shauno: its not unknown of companies to try and lock out other OS's via a BIOS "feature" though
[14:06] <shauno> how many times do I have to say there is no bios :p
[14:06] <HazRPG> I recall one of my old laptops would point blank REFUSE linux as an O/S unless you flashed the BIOS
[14:06] <shauno> macs are basically PCs devoid of all legacy hardware
[14:07] <HazRPG> it'll have one somewhere :P
[14:07] <shauno> no, it doesn't :p
[14:07] <shauno> it has efi.  pcbios is legacy cruft from the 80s.
[14:07] <daubers> shame they've introduced this thunderbolt thing really
[14:08] <shauno> why a shame?  I can't wait until I can pick up a hdd enclosure for it :)
[14:08] <HazRPG> thunderbolt?
[14:08] <daubers> shauno: expanding the PCI-E bus off the board and mixing the socket with a graphics port doesn't seem a good idea to me
[14:09] <daubers> shauno: also, your drive will still be the bottleneck :)
[14:09] <daubers> as it would be with USB3
[14:09] <shauno> exactly.  I want the drive to be the bottleneck.  it means I'll see speed increases with raid.  if the bus is the bottleneck, you're screwed
[14:09] <HazRPG> shauno: just looking here, and EFI ceased development for UEFI in 2005
[14:10] <HazRPG> shauno: so your more likely to have an UEFI than an EFI ;)
[14:10] <daubers> shauno: So why not just use USB3? Then the drive is _still_ the bottleneck
[14:10] <shauno> because usb is, and always has been a horrible protocol for transfer
[14:11] <daubers> USB3 is much nicer on that side (not a burst protocal anymore)
[14:11] <daubers> shauno: Also, you have to remember with thunderbolt that it was originally designed as an optical interconnect, and has now been changed to be copper
[14:11] <shauno> it still does almost all it's work on the cpu :/
[14:12] <daubers> shauno: So does thunderbolt.
[14:12] <shauno> optical is still in the spec.  copper just got it out the door faster
[14:12] <daubers> thunderbolt is literally a pci-e bus expansion
[14:12] <daubers> it takes 4 pci-e lanes from the (north/south)bridge
[14:13] <daubers> USB takes it's lanes from one of those too
[14:13] <shauno> so why does usb get it so horribly wrong?
[14:14] <daubers> USB was originally a burst protocal. It send data in bursts of activity. USB3 has changed that
[14:14] <HazRPG> I was going to say USB3 has been radically changed, but daubers has beat me to it again ^^
[14:15] <daubers> thunderbolt will probably be the new firewire :)
[14:15] <shauno> that works for me.  twice as fast for anyone who cares enough about fast to use it.
[14:16] <daubers> shauno: Problem is, if Apple/intel start putting this on all their boards, it means you lose 4 PCI-E lanes from your expansion possibilities
[14:16] <shauno> (well, 3 times as fast in this case, since usb3 is only about 3.2Mbps after overhead)
[14:16] <shauno> it's a laptop.  exposing 4 pci-e lanes _is_ my expansion possibilities
[14:16] <daubers> I've seen people with Mac Pro's with overloaded PCI-E busses who will suffer more in these scenarios
[14:17] <shauno> ugh, 3.2Gbps
[14:18] <daubers> Other problem is that Apple have shot themselves in the foot by mixing it with the displayport port. Lots of Video people I've spoken too are a bit miffed that they can't edit with a cinema display and their new thunderbolt storage at the same time
[14:18] <HazRPG> shauno: I wonder why you can't get it going, seems its been tested on Pro 8,1 dude: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro8-1/Natty
[14:18] <shauno> 8,1 and 8.2 are entirely different machines
[14:19] <shauno> and they can.  plug the monitor into the daisy-chain socket in the storage, and keep on truckin
[14:19] <daubers> shauno: Yep, straight into bus contention :) Had a couple of complaints about that already
[14:20] <daubers> Massive display overhead + massive amounts of storage overhead in use == issuesville
[14:20] <shauno> there shouldn't be any contention.  the monitor's not on the same pins
[14:20] <daubers> No, but the cables not shielded that well
[14:20] <shauno> then get a cable that is?
[14:20] <shauno> I'd be curious what hardware they're seeing this with
[14:20] <daubers> No-one makes one that is and the display port one on the cinema displays hasn't been updated to do so yet
[14:21] <daubers> It also depends on the quality of the implimentation on the thing you're passing through
[14:22] <shauno> given that no-one's actually selling tb storage controllers yet, they sound like pretty much fictional problems
[14:22] <daubers> shauno: You can get them from lacie
[14:22] <daubers> shauno: if you ask them nicely anyway
[14:22]  * fujisan is watching the outer limits
[14:22] <fujisan> im in the twilight zone :o
[14:22] <shauno> http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10549
[14:23] <shauno> the 'coming summer 2011 / notify me when it arrives' ones?
[14:23] <daubers> Yup. If you're an editing house (like I deal with) and have a good supplier, you can get one
[14:23] <HazRPG> oh, so thunderbolt is just firewire++
[14:23] <daubers> HazRPG: Think of it as external PCI-E
[14:24] <HazRPG> does sound dodgy
[14:24] <shauno> HazRPG: http://www.intel.com/technology/io/thunderbolt/
[14:24] <HazRPG> if I wanted anything hard drive related, I'd use a PCI-E card
[14:25] <daubers> If it was still optical and didn't have the stupid passthrough/switching rubbish, it would be alright really.
[14:25] <fujisan> hi there islanders
[14:25] <shauno> allo flatlander
[14:25] <fujisan> lol
[14:25] <fujisan> actually im half flatland half islander :<
[14:26] <HazRPG> fujisan: one foot on flatland and one foot on island style :P?
[14:26] <fujisan> i dunno
[14:26] <fujisan> i need to get some new albums for yardwork :<
[14:27] <HazRPG> natty hates me T_T
[14:27] <fujisan> who is natty?
[14:27] <shauno> natty hates everyone :/
[14:27] <fujisan> nathan?
[14:28] <MartijnVdS> fujisan: no, Natty Narwhal
[14:28] <HazRPG> "NoficicationAreaAppletFactory::NotificationArea" had a problem loading apparently
[14:28] <fujisan> i pied my pants during summer camp :<
[14:28] <fujisan> twice :(
[14:28] <fujisan> painful memories
[14:28] <shauno> fujisan: natty's the next ubuntu release, end of this month sometime
[14:28] <fujisan> and my roommate was named nathan
[14:28] <fujisan> he parents where from the UK
[14:28] <fujisan> his*
[14:28] <fujisan> oh really
[14:29] <fujisan> poor nathan slept in the bunk below me :<
[14:29] <HazRPG> hmm how do I make a bug report for this?
[14:29] <shauno> well, now we know why natty hates people :p
[14:29] <fujisan> :P
[14:31] <fujisan> you know what scares me ...
[14:31] <fujisan> :<
[14:31] <HazRPG> why has ubuntu never thought to make an applet on their bars for easy reporting of bugs :/
[14:31] <shauno> optical's still on the spec for thunderbolt.  I'm not ready to shoot it down based on the first implementation of it alone.
[14:31] <fujisan> in life you can fall from the top and the bottom :<
[14:31] <HazRPG> like other beta software usually does
[14:32] <HazRPG> fujisan: heh
[14:32] <fujisan> murphy's law
[14:32] <shauno> HazRPG: that wouldn't be a bad idea actually.  give it a pointer like xkill's, so you just click bug, click the window, and let it figure out who the owner is
[14:32] <HazRPG> its Sod's law :)
[14:33] <HazRPG> shauno: exactly!
[14:33] <fujisan> is gnome3 any good btw?
[14:34] <HazRPG> fujisan: considering ubuntu isn't implementing it... *shrug*
[14:34] <shauno> *hasn't
[14:34] <fujisan> shauno you run ubuntu on the Mac btw or on some generic x86 hw?
[14:34] <HazRPG> fujisan: brobostigon uses it, and he likes it :)
[14:34] <shauno> fujisan: atm, on nothing, because it won't boot on my new mac :)
[14:34] <fujisan> wow really?
[14:34] <fujisan> why not?
[14:35] <HazRPG> something to do with EFI I would assume
[14:35] <shauno> no idea.  still working on it.  apparently it works fine for other people :/
[14:35] <fujisan> there is even an Aros version for Intel Macs now
[14:35] <fujisan> i haven't tried it yet though
[14:35] <HazRPG> shauno: it does?
[14:35] <HazRPG> shauno: oh that link I sent?
[14:35] <shauno> based on the wiki & forum threads, it seems to work for others
[14:36] <HazRPG> shauno: hmm you been trying the i386 builds?
[14:36] <shauno> btw, gnome3 is coming, they're just not going to be using gnome-shell in the default configuration
[14:36] <shauno> why would I want to do that ?
[14:36] <HazRPG> shauno: oh so your not, I had a feeling you were for some reason :S
[14:36]  * HazRPG recalls you saying something about i386 supporting 32GB RAM
[14:37] <fujisan> ye gnome is superior to kde in simplicity
[14:37] <HazRPG> or was it 64GB
[14:37] <shauno> 64, and it should (with PAE)
[14:37] <HazRPG> might be worth seeing if that helps?
[14:37] <shauno> PAE should let it address .. 40-something (48?) bits
[14:37] <HazRPG> would be a silly move to have it only working on 32-bit, but at least it would narrow it down
[14:38] <shauno> guess it wouldn't be the stupidest thing I've tried
[14:38] <HazRPG> :p
[14:39] <shauno> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/   I've been sticking to 64 because the "This image is adjusted to work properly on Mac systems." is only built for 64
[14:39] <HazRPG> ah
[14:40] <HazRPG> maybe said adjustments is what's screwing it over :P?
[14:40] <fujisan> :<
[14:40] <fujisan> kde is german right?
[14:40] <shauno> the beta1 & 10.10 builds had the same errors and weren't (and didn't claim to be) mac-specific
[14:40] <fujisan> i have 10.10
[14:41] <fujisan> i dont trust windows or os x with my online banking :<
[14:45] <brobostigon> osx is atleast unix, kinda.
[14:46] <brobostigon> fujisan: kde - k desktop environment
[14:46] <directhex> PAE is a hack. never think of it as more than a hack
[14:46] <marsilainen> probably the choice of OS is less important for accessing online banking than choice of browser isn't it?
[14:47] <popey> the choice of connection is probably more important
[14:47] <marsilainen> agree
[14:47] <popey> i wouldn't do my online banking whilst at a blackhat conf for example :)
[14:47] <brobostigon> lol
[14:47] <brobostigon> yes.
[14:47] <marsilainen> well, I wouldn't turn my machine there :)
[14:47] <marsilainen> *turn on
[14:47] <popey> yeah, I would be worried about that too
[14:47] <shauno> I find browser's the least interesting bit now.  flash comes higher up the list for me
[14:47] <popey> not certain I wouldn't leak something
[14:48] <AlanBell> I would do a fresh install for a risky conference, and nuke it after
[14:48] <marsilainen> your bank uses flash?
[14:48] <AlanBell> it is the only way to be sure
[14:48] <popey> guess you could physically remove all network cards, or disable in bios for the conf
[14:49] <popey> renders the machine a bit less useful, but you could at least take notes etc
[14:49] <popey> and code :)
[14:49] <marsilainen> suggest remove bluetooth too
[14:49] <shauno> marsilainen: I believe flash is currently among the leading attack vectors.  I'm not so worried about what I receive visiting my bank's website, as what's already on my machine when I do
[14:50] <HazRPG> AlanBell: same, although this is why I have my netbook
[14:50] <HazRPG> AlanBell: it doesn't have anything other than a standard install on it
[14:51] <brobostigon> and there probebly isnt a foolproof totally unbreakable way, of locking things done either,
[14:51] <shauno> alrighty, yet another reboot to see if i386 is any different
[14:52] <brobostigon> things down*
[14:52] <HazRPG> security is a myth, we only have preventative methods :)
[14:52] <HazRPG> shauno: \o/
[14:54] <brobostigon> openbsd with their auditing, is probebly the cloest you will get, i suspect.
[14:55] <kaushal> popey: hi
[14:56] <kaushal> just to update it did not work yesterday
[14:56] <kaushal> so i have to reinstall the OS
[14:57] <popey> i dont know what you did yesterday
[14:57] <popey> I wasnt involved in that, sorry.
[14:57] <shauno> yarp, same issue on i386
[14:59] <kaushal> popey: np
[14:59] <kaushal> Thanks
[14:59] <shauno> oh well, attached that to the bug just incase the different arch is interesting at all
[15:00] <kaushal> Also i would like to know is there a way to install ubuntu or windows via pxe as a selection by the end user ?
[15:00] <kaushal> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PXEInstallMultiDistro
[15:00] <kaushal> For example if a user wants to install windows by choice
[15:00] <kaushal> or ubuntu by choice
[15:01]  * brobostigon shakes his fist atthe washing machine, for not telling me, i had it set on the wrong program. :(
[15:01] <AlanBell> does windows install over pxe?
[15:01] <kaushal> AlanBell: yes
[15:01] <kaushal> http://unattended.sourceforge.net/
[15:02] <HazRPG> apparently I'm not allowed to use "Ask Ubuntu" ... wtf.....
[15:02] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: You're not n00b enough :P
[15:02] <popey> HazRPG: hmm?
[15:03]  * kaushal appreciates folks here about their deep technical knowledge
[15:03] <kaushal> I love to be here
[15:03] <HazRPG> popey: I ticked the "notify" box and it keeps throwing me because of it
[15:03] <popey> how odd
[15:04] <HazRPG> hmm, seems if I don't tick it, it works :/
[15:04] <popey> :)
[15:04] <popey> tip: don't tick it
[15:04] <popey> :)
[15:04] <HazRPG> can't be an e-mail verification problem
[15:04] <HazRPG> I already did that when I made the account
[15:05] <HazRPG> ta da: http://askubuntu.com/questions/34226/why-isnt-there-a-daily-alpha-beta-bug-report-applet-widget
[15:05] <HazRPG> although in hindsight, this would probably been better on the brainstorm site
[15:05] <popey> why would you want to have a button on the toolbar?
[15:05] <popey> given each app has a menu option "Help -> Report a bug" directly in the app that you have the issue with?
[15:06] <HazRPG> as described, you click it, click the application that's being silly, and *boomf* insta reporting
[15:06] <popey> (and if it doesn't have "Help -> Report a bug" then thats arguably a bug in that app)
[15:06] <popey> thats what report a bug does
[15:06] <popey> but embedded in the apps rather than being a separate thing
[15:06] <HazRPG> I know, but what if you can't click inside the application?
[15:07] <popey> such as?
[15:07] <shauno> I don't think it'd be silly to have something in the tray on betas.  like the feedback widget being a lot more prominent in firefox betas
[15:07] <HazRPG> shauno: that was where I was getting at...
[15:07] <HazRPG> something like that
[15:07] <popey> I'm not saying its silly, I just struggle to see the value over and above what we already have
[15:07] <HazRPG> microsoft have started doing it in their betas (both software and OS)
[15:08] <HazRPG> popey: as a thing, people don't know that the "report bug" in the about menu exist
[15:08] <kaushal> AlanBell: is that doable ?
[15:08] <AlanBell> it is "Help -> Report a Problem . . ." rather than report a bug, to be pedantic
[15:09] <HazRPG> :P
[15:09] <popey> ok, sorry, I'm on my work windows laptop right now
[15:09] <popey> so its an education problem
[15:09] <popey> there should be a slide in the installer that tells you about it :)
[15:09] <popey> or in the ubuntu-tour
[15:09] <AlanBell> kaushal: no idea, I was just a bit surprised at Windows doing pxe installs
[15:10] <shauno> do people running betas actually 'take the tour' ?
[15:10] <HazRPG> popey: would having an ubuntu-tour be a bad thing ? Obviously one that's not as annoying as windows...
[15:10]  * popey shrugs
[15:10] <popey> there's a team working on it
[15:10] <HazRPG> \o/
[15:10] <AlanBell> HazRPG: I did suggest adding a talking paperclip to the desktop at a UDS session
[15:10] <popey> nah, it needs to be a piece of wire you bend into a paperclip yourself
[15:10] <HazRPG> still think a "feedback" or "bug report" widget/applet should exist though
[15:11] <popey> this is linux!
[15:11] <popey> HazRPG: make one? :)
[15:11] <HazRPG> would get more people reporting them
[15:11] <kaushal> AlanBell: ok
[15:11] <kaushal> popey: How do i proceed further ?
[15:12] <popey> kaushal: you want to restore grub on your hard disk?
[15:12] <HazRPG> popey: wouldn't be any point, if the people who package the distros together don't think its an issue
[15:12] <kaushal> popey: nope
[15:12] <popey> i honestly have no idea what you want to do, sorry
[15:12] <kaushal> I was talking about MultiOS installation
[15:12] <popey> ah
[15:12] <popey> no idea
[15:12] <popey> well, i have an _idea_
[15:12] <kaushal> sure
[15:12] <popey> but I would end up googling
[15:12] <kaushal> ah ok
[15:13] <kaushal> I found one
[15:13] <kaushal> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PXEInstallMultiDistro
[15:13] <shauno> HazRPG: go for it.  find out how xkill figures out what window you just clicked on.  find a nice slim example of however they're sticking stuff in the $tray these days, light some candles and mate the two
[15:16] <popey> could call out to apt/dpkg to find out what package it's in and then just trigger apport-gtk
[15:16]  * AlanBell suggests not getting caught up in the war on systray
[15:16] <popey> i see how shauno avoided it nicely
[15:17] <shauno> hopefully there's a way to query lsb_release to find out if you're on a pre-release, so it can magically tidy itself up when they hit release-day
[15:17] <HazRPG> hmm, well my idea has been voted twice... so there's interest :P
[15:18] <shauno> s/idea/question.  remember that's not brainstorm.  good question and good idea may not always be the same thing
[15:18] <HazRPG> true
[15:18] <HazRPG> tempted to revise it and post it up on brainstorm (or see if one exists first)
[15:23] <shauno> thinking about it, I'm not sure xkill actually knows what program you pointed it at.  It's just the only example of the "click on another app's window to return info" mechanic that springs to mind
[15:24] <shauno> I think xkill just breaks the link between the window and X so the app thinks X has been killed
[15:24] <shauno> but there has to be a way to find out who owns a given window
[15:28] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] I had to go out in the world and become strong - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/04/09/i-had-to-go-out-in-the-world-and-become-strong/
[15:28] <shauno> fedora's gnome3 livecd died on the same problem too :(
[15:28] <shauno> except their rescue shell doesn't have halt/reboot/shutdown *scratches head*
[15:29] <HazRPG> weird
[15:30] <HazRPG> shauno: I'm pretty sure xkill, kills by its process ID
[15:30] <shauno> it did have 'less' tho, which isn't on ubuntu's initrd.  that was handy
[15:30] <shauno> I'm not sure it does, because I've used it to 'kill' zombies before.  the process still doesn't die, but it gets kicked off of X atleast
[15:33] <MartijnVdS> Best way to kill zombies is to kill their parents
[15:33] <MartijnVdS> Zombie will get reparented to init, which reaps zombies for a living :)
[15:34] <shauno> hm, it just calls XKillClient()  *wanders off to get xlib*
[15:35] <MartijnVdS> probably server-side
[15:38] <shauno> "Xlib provides a function to cause the connection to a client to be closed and its resources to be destroyed."
[15:38] <shauno> I think actually killing the pid would be an issue because it can't assume the process is on the same machine as the server
[15:39] <shauno> but the stuff to identify a resource from a click seems fairly straight-forward.  just no idea how to map a resource to it's owner :)
[15:42] <shauno> it's a shame xkill doesn't have a "dry run" option that'd tell you what it would do, but doesn't actually do it.  otherwise you could just call it directly from a script
[15:42] <HazRPG> heh yeah
[15:43] <shauno> (altho xkill's cursor wouldn't be the friendliest thing to inherit)
[15:46] <shauno> not sure what else to try to get a distro booting on this thing :(
[15:46] <fujisan> How does Ubuntu compare to the 1960s San Francisco ?
[15:46] <HazRPG> if I was more proficient with my C++ coding, I would actually consider coding a proof of concept
[15:47] <shauno> HazRPG: writing things is how you get more proficient :)  give it a shot.  if it comes out horrible, there's no onus to show anyone how bad it was :p
[15:47] <fujisan> is my question to cosmic for this channel?
[15:48] <HazRPG> shauno: wow, I actually had to lookup onus!
[15:48] <shauno> fujisan: most likely.  personally, I never saw 1960s SF :p
[15:48] <fujisan> me neither i just like the music
[15:49] <shauno> HazRPG: obligation is just awkward to type
[15:50] <HazRPG> shauno: if the google talks are anything to go by, surely showing how monumentally bad your code is, is better than not showing at all
[15:50] <shauno> I've no idea.  I don't tend to share anything with anyone because it's all incredibly horrible
[15:50] <fujisan> "Nasty French planet, filled with shifty, back-stabbing, croissant-eating nitwits..." - Professor Arturo
[15:50] <fujisan> you guys appreciate quotes like that in here?
[15:51] <HazRPG> shauno: you don't learn how to be good/right until you've shown what you've got :P
[15:51] <shauno> I can't code worth bleep.  I mush together whatever I can find that roughly matches what I was trying to do  (which is why my thought process jumped straight to finding someone to copy)
[15:51] <HazRPG> how most people work :P
[15:52] <HazRPG> why recreate something that's already out there
[15:52] <HazRPG> (unless its horribly bad to begin with... not looking at unity honest...)
[15:52]  * daubers has a very niche project that he intends to open source once it's functionally complete
[15:52] <shauno> I've no idea how they stick things in the $tray anymore, but if it's at all documented, I'd expect to find a nice example.  how to pick a window -> find a good example to copy.  mapping a pid to a process to a package is easy :)
[15:53] <HazRPG> daubers: that was another thing that was at the google conf. talks :P, better to release early and show what your doing then to wait until its finished and then show to the world :P
[15:54] <shauno> inb4wave
[15:54] <daubers> HazRPG: Yup :) Bit I'd prefer it actually did something, even if it does so badly, when i do release it
[15:54] <HazRPG> shauno: wave?
[15:54] <shauno> HazRPG: o/
[15:54] <daubers> HazRPG: Having said that, you can get to the code now.... it's just not publicisied :)
[15:54] <HazRPG> daubers: ah
[15:54] <HazRPG> daubers: then that's ok then (I think :P)
[15:55] <daubers> I've also got a second project that's just designed and kinda-ish prototyped that I'll do the same with
[15:55]  * shauno goes back to trying to convince vmware to do a physical install
[15:55] <daubers> intend to let the public have that at Oggcamp
[15:56] <HazRPG> daubers: awesome :)
[15:56] <HazRPG> I intend to do a catch'em all game at some point
[15:57] <HazRPG> just because I like the current commercial offerings, but think they're missing out on a few cool features
[15:57] <shauno> actually .. I might see if I can find a firewire cable so I can borrow my wife's cdrom
[15:58] <HazRPG> shauno: thought your new one has a cdrom drive
[15:58] <shauno> that way it'd appear on a different controller
[15:58] <shauno> HazRPG: so did I, but ubuntu doesn't :p
[15:58] <HazRPG> shauno: heh
[15:59] <shauno> but if I can find a cable for 400-800, I can use hers, so the drive will be on the fw controller instead of the sata controller
[16:00] <shauno> quick check to make sure she left her laptop at home before I go wandering off to maplins
[16:01] <shauno> oh, btw .. what does the keyboard = person icon mean?
[16:01] <MartijnVdS> "Touch any key now fo accessibility mode"
[16:02] <shauno> ahh
[16:02] <shauno> and here I've been hitting keys just to make it go away
[16:04] <shauno> osx just has a key combo you use to turn voiceover on or off, at any time (including the installer).  you don't have to warn it ahead of time
[16:04] <shauno> I'm not sure which is more discoverable, given how vague that icon is :/
[16:06] <shauno> (also discovered voiceover's on the iphone too.  I never imagined blind people would use a touch-screen phone, but I've heard glowing feedback)
[16:13] <shauno> http://behindthecurtain.us/2010/06/12/my-first-week-with-the-iphone/   that's the one. really interesting read on how much difference it can make when accessibility actually works
[16:13] <shauno> (and the guy's a gnome user, it's not just default fanboy rant :p  )
[16:23] <shauno> forgot my shell was still on gmt :/  that ruins the maplin idea, it takes me a while to get there
[16:31] <AlanBell> shauno: there is a bug about that icon
[16:31] <shauno> oh, cool
[16:31] <HazRPG> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/27570/
[16:31] <shauno> I didn't think to check bts to find out what an icon meant  hehe
[16:31] <HazRPG> and lets see what happens :)
[16:33] <AlanBell> bug 749642
[16:33] <AlanBell> the icon is cryptic enough for people who don't know the gnome-a11y project logo
[16:34] <HazRPG> shauno: heh yeah I made a point of updating my vps for that reason :P
[16:34] <shauno> I tend to leave mine on gmt
[16:35] <shauno> this way I completely trust log timestamps to be UTC, which is more important than having irssi show the right time in the corner
[16:44] <daubers> Smells like araldite in this room nboe
[16:44] <daubers> now even
[17:10] <marsilainen> ok, sympa is beginning to annoy me already...
[17:10] <marsilainen> anyone got any other suggestions for a mailing-list manager which easily supports a virtual domain environment?
[17:10] <marsilainen> ie. I need to support lists at multiple domains on one box
[17:11] <marsilainen> sympa looks to fit the bill, but the config of it seems to be all messed up by default on lucid at least
[17:27] <shauno> sigh.  installing via vmware doesn't work because install doesn't let me decide what device to install grub on
[17:30] <shauno> it's pretty.  it's just less functional.
[17:34] <shauno> if I stick the iso on another volume, is there any way to tell either isolinux, or the boot process itself to use that?
[17:45] <screen-x> X3N: have added rss info to planet wiki page :)
[18:04] <shauno> anyone at all familiar with the layout of the install CDs?  I'm getting "unable to find main/debian-installer/binary-amd64/Packages in /cdrom/dists/natty/Release"
[18:04] <shauno> find /cdrom -name debian-installer finds nothing
[18:09] <shauno> question: are the dailies an elaborate april fool's joke?
[18:12] <gord> shauno, dailys are not tested, why are you using dailys?
[18:12] <gord> we take a week or so to prepare and test release versions to make sure they work, dailys are just "grab whatever is current and let a build script do the rest"
[18:13] <shauno> because beta1 didn't support my hardware, so I went forward hoping newer may
[18:14] <daftykins> i tried booting beta1 in a VM, i got no unity
[18:14] <daftykins> so i'm holding off for now ;)
[18:18] <penguin42> daftykins: Unless you can get 3d drivers in your VM that's what i would expect
[18:19] <daftykins> actually vmware workstation supports very basic GL acceleration
[18:23] <directhex> usually i'd have upgraded to +1 by now
[18:23] <shauno> AlanBell was saying he's had some success with the latest vbox builds, as long as you use the guest additions from the repo, instead of the image offered from the vbox UI
[18:23] <directhex> but unity scares me
[18:24] <gord> daftykins, it does, but you have to install the drivers if you didn't know
[18:25] <daftykins> er, no
[18:25] <daftykins> never usually does
[18:25] <daftykins> as it already has the driver allowing me to not need the keypress to "drag out" of the VM
[18:26] <gord> it does
[18:26] <gord> you have to install the guest addons inside of ubuntu
[18:26] <gord> until virtualbox proposes xorg drivers for themselves (and i don't think xorg would take them) you are going to need to provide them yourself
[18:26] <popey> he said vmware not virtualbox
[18:27] <daftykins> ^
[18:27] <marsilainen> ^
[18:27] <daftykins> glad someones awake ;)
[18:27] <gord> oh, vmware. right, forgot that even existed
[18:28] <popey> heh
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> If you use it without a valid license, does it become vmwarez?
[18:41] <Myrtti> a martian, eh
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: no, not a Martian :)
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: ("it's called Dutch" :P)
[18:59] <shauno> \o/  I have a functional install!
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> *\o/*
[19:00] <shauno> created a vfat patition, put the iso on there, and mounted it to /cdrom when it failed to find the physical one
[19:01] <shauno> it ends up whining about having mounted partitions on sda, but if you keep kicking it it'll shut up and get on with it
[19:16] <shauno> no idea how I manged to install only CLI, but I'll take it
[19:16] <shauno> (it hasn't even got ssh, so I've a feeling I missed something)
[19:27] <shauno> hah, win, the trackpad works on this one
[19:30] <HazRPG> on natty?
[19:30] <HazRPG> split window irssi ftw \o/
[19:31] <brobostigon> HazRPG: umm?
[19:31] <HazRPG> brobostigon: you know, slit screened irssi :)
[19:32] <HazRPG> i now can see 3 channels at once! \o/
[19:32] <brobostigon> HazRPG: so you have multiple irssi windows visible atthe same time?
[19:32] <brobostigon> HazRPG: how?
[19:32] <HazRPG> window show #, window hide #
[19:32] <HazRPG> number is the number of that window
[19:32] <HazRPG> to get the number just type /window
[19:32] <brobostigon> interesting.
[19:32] <HazRPG> obv /window show #, etc
[19:33] <HazRPG> and to make them stick so that you can just use ALT+UP and ALT+DOWN
[19:33] <brobostigon> let me try, interesting.
[19:33] <HazRPG> type /window stick
[19:33] <HazRPG> and to unstick it, /window stick off
[19:33] <HazRPG> \o/
[19:33] <HazRPG> need more help just do /help window
[19:33] <HazRPG> or http://quadpoint.org/articles/irssisplit
[19:33] <HazRPG> or other sites and videos
[19:34] <HazRPG> uber win! \o/
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: another blog post in the making? :)
[19:34] <HazRPG> possible :D
[19:35] <brobostigon> interesting HazRPG
[19:35] <shauno> okay, in nm I can add/edit/delete a wireless connection
[19:35] <shauno> how do I actualy .. turn it on ?
[19:35] <HazRPG> i'll prob post it up later tonight once i've had more of a play with it in a VM
[19:36] <HazRPG> shauno: drivers installed? Check with the "additonal drivers" thing
[19:36] <brobostigon> lol, i canstill alt+right-left arrow in eachpane.
[19:36] <HazRPG> brobostigon: of course :)
[19:36] <shauno> HazRPG: no idea.  I can't see how I actually make it connect, so I don't know if it fails yet
[19:36] <HazRPG> brobostigon: if it won't let you, its because it sticky, just do /window stick off
[19:37] <brobostigon> HazRPG: hmm, this is getting interesting.
[19:37] <HazRPG> brobostigon: if you make a window sticky, it stops you from moving left or right, but up and down is still an option it seems
[19:37] <brobostigon> HazRPG: it is clashing with one of myplugins though,
[19:37] <HazRPG> brobostigon: really?
[19:37] <HazRPG> brobostigon: which one?
[19:38] <brobostigon> HazRPG: trackbar.pl
[19:39] <HazRPG> brobostigon: ah, thats probably because it uses /window too
[19:39] <HazRPG> there's also /window grow # and /widnow shrink # (the # is a number of lines you want it to grow/shrink)
[19:39] <shauno> hm.  this isn't very pretty at all
[19:40] <HazRPG>  /window shrink* even
[19:40] <HazRPG> :(
[19:40] <brobostigon> this is getting weird, with the channelsi am in,
[19:40] <HazRPG> lol
[19:41] <HazRPG> I've got status, 2 /msg people up, and also #ubuntu-uk in mine so far
[19:41] <HazRPG> don't think the brain can handle more than 4 though
[19:41] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i have twlve channels  here, an a pm.
[19:42] <HazRPG> brobostigon: oh I meant I have 1 channel, 2 pm's and a status bar all shown at once :)
[19:42] <shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/notpretty.jpg
[19:43] <HazRPG> brobostigon: also, if you stick more than one for a given window, you can ALT+LEFT/RIGHT to them too, hmm interesting
[19:43] <brobostigon> HazRPG: mine will probebly confuse no end aswell.
[19:43] <HazRPG> I could have IM's at the top, and channels on the bottom, that would make more sense actually
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> alt+* sometimes breaks over remote links
[19:44] <HazRPG> like I said, I'll be making a blog about it with different ways I've come up
[19:44] <HazRPG> with
[19:44] <shauno> you can use escape instead.  escape,1 (inorder, not together) will do it
[19:44] <HazRPG> and some screens-caps to show it in action :)
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: just tell us when we need to smile for the picture :P
[19:44] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: of course :P
[19:45] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yeah, :)
[19:45] <HazRPG> anyways, like I said, I is late... need to dash!
[19:45] <brobostigon> bye HazRPG :)
[19:45] <HazRPG> prob do the blog screens-caps when you guys are on :)
[19:45] <HazRPG> later guys :)
[19:46] <brobostigon> HazRPG: last question, can i left right on either pane?
[19:46] <HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah
[19:46] <brobostigon> HazRPG: how?
[19:46] <HazRPG> as long as you stick the ones you want on that pane
[19:46] <HazRPG> i.e.
[19:46] <HazRPG> if your on the top one
[19:46] <HazRPG>  /window stick
[19:46] <brobostigon> ok.
[19:46] <HazRPG> then ALT+# of the other one you want to stick to that pane, then do /window stick
[19:47] <HazRPG> then those two will be attached to that pane
[19:47] <brobostigon> HazRPG: this will revert on irssi restartunless i /save ?
[19:47] <HazRPG> I think it will when you /save :)
[19:48] <brobostigon> ok, :)
[19:48] <HazRPG> but like I said, I will be doing testing in a VM so that I check those things out :)
[19:48] <HazRPG> send me a PM of anything you'd like me to play around with and I will :)
[19:48] <brobostigon> HazRPG: ok, thank you, interesting,
[19:48] <brobostigon> HazRPG: will do, :)
[19:48] <HazRPG> catch ya all later \o
[19:49] <brobostigon> bye HazRPG :)
[19:49] <brobostigon> o/
[19:52]  * MartijnVdS checks to see if there's something on TV
[19:52]  * shauno is watching The Incredible Exploding Xorg  ;)
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> bewm?
[19:53] <shauno> the plotline's a bit weak, but the visuals are awesome
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> snow crash?
[19:53] <shauno> naw, more colours that that :)  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/notpretty.jpg
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> wow
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> which driver is that?
[19:54] <shauno> if anyone asks that's how you get unity on the right :p
[19:54] <shauno> whatever it put on for ati-restricted
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> fglrx.. always had trouble with that
[19:55] <shauno> it mostly works, just can't do ctrl+alt+f1 to get a terminal
[19:55] <shauno> well, you can.  but it won't be pretty when you switch back
[20:03] <shauno> erm.  X doesn't come back after a reboot
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> excellent
[20:03]  * shauno plays guess the IP to see if it's alive at all
[20:08] <shauno> bah.  it hasn't requested dhcp since reboot.  because ofc nm isn't going to bring the interface up until it's logged into gnome
[20:15] <shauno> this is awesome.  if you type "on", it gives you ön"
[20:16] <KINGOFSWORDS> hi  im new to ubuntu....
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> œn
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> KINGOFSWORDS: welcome :)
[20:16] <KINGOFSWORDS> how do i connect to rizon server plz?
[20:16] <KINGOFSWORDS> thx martin
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> What is "rizon server"?
[20:16] <KINGOFSWORDS> erm
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> PaulW2U: hm? CTCP?
[20:17] <MattJ> shauno: Go go gadget compose key!
[20:17] <shauno> MattJ: I don't want shift to be my compose key :(
[20:18] <KINGOFSWORDS> rizon network i mean sorry
[20:18] <KINGOFSWORDS> im on xchat....used to using mirc
[20:22] <willy1978> KINGOFSWORDS: a rizon is an irc network you'd just use /connect servername portnumber
[20:23] <willy1978> first occurrence of a == if
[20:23] <KINGOFSWORDS> ok thank u wily
[20:24] <KINGOFSWORDS> also...ive just installed ubuntu 10.04...and cant use envy. how do i find the best graphics driver ffor my pc?
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> KINGOFSWORDS: the best driver is installed by default.
[20:24] <KINGOFSWORDS> really?
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> KINGOFSWORDS: only install a different driver if you need features the default driver doesn't supply
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> KINGOFSWORDS: yes, really.
[20:25] <willy1978> trust me... my brother is a doctor... ;)
[20:25] <KINGOFSWORDS> i had ver9.1 installed the other day and the nvidia interface was better on that and had no problems using compiz
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> willy1978: not _the_ doctor, right?
[20:25]  * willy1978 is not a timelord...
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> KINGOFSWORDS: nvidia is a bit strange.
[20:26] <KINGOFSWORDS> yeh got that right
[20:26] <KINGOFSWORDS> ok so how do i see the users list in xchat?
[20:27] <KINGOFSWORDS> mirc normally displays them on the right
[20:27] <willy1977> KINGOFSWORDS: click view at the top then tick user list should show on the right ;)
[20:28] <shauno> they don't put any audio in the default install so you can make sure your audio is working?
[20:28] <KINGOFSWORDS> nah just view>side bar
[20:28] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Hassan Williamson] New Idea For Ubuntu! - http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/2011/04/09/new-idea-for-ubuntu/
[20:29] <willy1977> :/ my version of xchat shows them on the right by default but I can turn them on/off with that menu option... ?
[20:29] <willy1977> ver = 2.8.8 btw
[20:30] <KINGOFSWORDS> oh i see it now...discussions>users
[20:30] <KINGOFSWORDS> maybe its my version is different
[20:30] <willy1977> think it must be ...
[20:31] <willy1977> or different window layout at least.
[20:33] <shauno> who's idea was it to stick an ubuntu-one advert in every single folder?
[20:33] <KINGOFSWORDS> anyway im off 2 rizon...thx for all your help guys
[20:33] <KINGOFSWORDS> bye
[20:34] <KINGOFSWORDS> or maybe not...
[20:34] <shauno> hm.  if you visit the ubunt one store in banshee, it tells you it needs to install mp3 support.  so you do.  then next time you open the store, it tells you you need mp3 support ..
[20:34] <KINGOFSWORDS> do i type connect irc.rizon.net 6667
[20:41] <willy1977> KINGOFSWORDS: you will need to type /connect irc.rizon.net 6667
[20:41] <MattJ> KINGOFSWORDS: I think you might have installed xchat-gnome rather than plain xchat
[20:41] <MattJ> On mine at least go to the 'XChat' menu and choose 'Network list', then the 'Add' button
[20:42] <KINGOFSWORDS> yeh sorry xchat gnome
[20:42] <MattJ> Then you can connect to it at startup automatically
[20:42] <MattJ> Yeah, I didn't like xchat-gnome, I like to see the user list :)
[20:42] <MattJ> I can't remember the other differences
[20:42] <KINGOFSWORDS> i thought gnome one was best ...does other have gui
[20:43] <KINGOFSWORDS>  /connect irc.rizon.net 6667
[20:43] <KINGOFSWORDS> doesnt work
[20:46] <shauno> well, that was well worth 9 hours work to install
[20:47] <KINGOFSWORDS> hi im in nongnome xchat now
[20:47] <KINGOFSWORDS> still cant gett to rizon thou...added new server and wont connect
[20:50] <willy1977> KINGOFSWORDS: I just picked rizon from the existing list and that connected? are there differences between the one you added and the one that was installed?
[20:51] <KINGOFSWORDS> i cant find it in my list
[20:52] <KINGOFSWORDS> theres only rizenet
[20:54] <KINGOFSWORDS> why isnt my compiz working
[20:55] <KINGOFSWORDS> hello
[20:56] <KINGOFSWORDS> why is everything so fucking hard in linux
[21:01] <popey> it is?
[21:01] <directhex> xchat is cross-platform, so it can be hard on windows too if you like
[21:01] <popey> KINGOFSWORDS: what version of Ubuntu are you running?
[21:01] <directhex> popey, lucid
[21:01] <popey> ah
[21:01] <popey> thanks directhex
[21:01] <KINGOFSWORDS> well it i cant get it to work then it is
[21:02] <popey> I sometimes can't get my lawnmower working
[21:02] <popey> I find oiling it helps
[21:02] <popey> have you tried that?
[21:03] <directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, what, precisely, is the error you get?
[21:03] <shauno> I'd agree with this sentiment.  I had to add a ppa to be able to right-click.  It's easy to take the mick, but it is nowhere near as easy as people like to pretend.
[21:04] <popey> shauno: ubuntu wouldn't even see the hard disk in my computer
[21:04] <popey> but then neither does xp or windows vista.. or windows 7
[21:04] <KINGOFSWORDS> unknown host maybe you mispelled it
[21:05] <directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, that's via the gui, or using /connect in a new server tab?
[21:05] <KINGOFSWORDS> dunno
[21:05] <KINGOFSWORDS> i typed it here and a ne tab opened
[21:06] <KINGOFSWORDS> i dont wana spend all nite sorting this out
[21:07] <willy1977> neither do we
[21:07] <popey> i see MattJ explained how to do it earlier.. did you try that?
[21:07] <directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, can you try "/server irc.rizon.net 6667" instead if /connect?
[21:07] <popey> 20:41:58 < MattJ> On mine at least go to the 'XChat' menu and choose 'Network list', then the 'Add' button
[21:08] <willy1977> sorry - sometimes need to stop my fingers before pressing enter
[21:47] <brobostigon> http://www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/printer.jpg
[21:48] <penguin42> hehe
[22:10] <KINGOFSWORDS> how do i get jocky to run in gnome
[22:11] <popey> KINGOFSWORDS: system -> admin -> hardware drivers
[22:11] <KINGOFSWORDS> not there
[22:11] <KINGOFSWORDS> it wont install
[22:12] <KINGOFSWORDS> but terminal says it is
[22:14] <KINGOFSWORDS> omg this is crazy
[22:14] <KINGOFSWORDS> where do i get help from?
[22:17] <directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, general help? #ubuntu
[22:18] <KINGOFSWORDS> thx
[22:25] <popey> KINGOFSWORDS: when you say 'where is jockey' its pre-installed
[22:25] <popey> what do you want to use jockey to do? install a video driver?
[22:45] <KINGOFSWORDS> am i srtill here
[22:47] <popey> KINGOFSWORDS: yes
[22:48] <popey> KINGOFSWORDS: I've still yet to see what you're actually trying to do
[22:48] <popey> KINGOFSWORDS: not the fact that you're trying to run jockey, but why you are running it.
[22:48] <directhex> cd Des
[22:48] <directhex> oops
[22:49] <popey> jockey is usually something you only run once after you install to setup your nvidia or ati video driver
[22:49] <KINGOFSWORDS> ok
[22:49] <KINGOFSWORDS> i cant get compiz to work
[22:50] <popey> ok
[22:50] <popey> what video card does your computer have?
[22:50] <popey> or
[22:50] <KINGOFSWORDS> tried enabling visual effects>extras and it wont
[22:50] <popey> what model computer is it?
[22:50] <KINGOFSWORDS> nvidia 8400m gs
[22:50] <popey> ok.
[22:51] <KINGOFSWORDS> i had ubuntu karmic installed yesterday and used envy to easily get nvidia driver and had compiz work
[22:51] <popey> technically you dont need envy
[22:51] <KINGOFSWORDS> no but i havent got a clue what i need
[22:51] <directhex> envy was superceded by jockey, whose icon is in System, Administration, Additional Drivers (or Hardware Drivers, depends on your release)
[22:51] <popey> well, shouldn't
[22:52] <popey> !nvidia
[22:52] <KINGOFSWORDS> ubuntu forum have loads of ppl posting problems and then when i read th thread there is no real wolrd solution
[22:52] <KINGOFSWORDS> i ve got no idea how to use linux at all and am getting nowhere having spend 3 days messing around
[22:52] <popey> sounds frustrating
[22:52] <popey> i use an nvidia card on my laptop and my desktop
[22:53] <popey> if you have a standard install of 10.04 then you should find the path that directhex told you works
[22:53] <KINGOFSWORDS> i have systme adminstration>hardware drivers but disabled crappy nvidia driver and now hardware drivers icon is no longer there
[22:53] <popey> System -> Administration -> Additional Drivers (or Hardware Drivers)
[22:53] <popey> disabled what driver?
[22:53] <KINGOFSWORDS> not there anymore
[22:54] <popey> is that the only thing you have done?
[22:54] <directhex> how on earth did that... did you follow a guide to install envy, or something?
[22:54] <KINGOFSWORDS> the standard one that comes up on install
[22:54] <popey> or have you tried lots of other guides online?
[22:54] <KINGOFSWORDS> nah been messing around all day sso cant remember what ive done but
[22:54] <popey> ok
[22:54] <popey> thats understandable
[22:54] <KINGOFSWORDS> install jockey 3 or 4 times and got install error
[22:54] <directhex> (the package is called jockey-gtk)
[22:55] <popey> easy to get in a mess when trying lots of different things out
[22:55] <KINGOFSWORDS> its says it didnt install but when i try to install differnet ver. says its there
[22:56] <KINGOFSWORDS> i got no idea how to use linux im just copy and pasting stuff off forums
[22:56] <directhex> how are you trying to install it?
[22:56] <KINGOFSWORDS> cant even dl drivers from nvidia site now
[22:56] <KINGOFSWORDS> i dont know
[22:56] <popey> best not to do that anyway
[22:57] <directhex> those are guaranteed to kill your system, tbh
[22:57] <directhex> certainly if you have a 64-bit system
[22:57] <popey> KINGOFSWORDS: are you on the machine right now?
[22:57] <KINGOFSWORDS> yeh read that thats y i wanted an envy type prog that worked perfectly in ubuntu 9.1
[22:57] <KINGOFSWORDS> uhhh
[22:57] <KINGOFSWORDS> i have 64 bit system
[22:57] <KINGOFSWORDS> yeh
[22:57] <popey> ok, cool
[22:57] <popey> open a browser to http://paste.ubuntu.com/
[22:58] <popey> and open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories
[22:58] <popey> in the terminal type (without quotes) "sudo apt-get update"
[22:58] <popey> then paste the entire contents of the terminal in the box in the browser, and put a name in the name box and press enter
[22:58] <popey> let us know the url of the paste
[22:59] <popey> the "sudo apt-get update" will ask for your password, this is normal
[22:59] <KINGOFSWORDS> ok
[22:59] <KINGOFSWORDS> done that
[22:59] <popey> whats the url of the paste?
[23:00] <KINGOFSWORDS> dont understand what that is?
[23:00] <popey> did you copy and paste the contents of the terminal window into the box marked "content:" in http://paste.ubuntu.com/ ?
[23:01] <KINGOFSWORDS> sudo cmd just printed a long list of https
[23:01] <popey> good
[23:01] <popey> so paste that in http://paste.ubuntu.com/
[23:02] <KINGOFSWORDS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/591899/
[23:02] <popey> ta
[23:02] <KINGOFSWORDS> ahh i see what u doing now
[23:02] <KINGOFSWORDS> sorry thought it was a diagnose site
[23:02] <KINGOFSWORDS> thx
[23:02] <popey> thats not the entire terminal
[23:02] <popey> only the top part
[23:02] <popey> the window scrolls as you get to the bottom
[23:02] <popey> or top
[23:03] <popey> anyway.
[23:03] <popey> Now try "sudo apt-get install nvidia-current"
[23:03] <popey> and paste the result of that in a new pastebin
[23:03] <KINGOFSWORDS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/591900/
[23:03] <popey> ok, that looks better :)
[23:04] <KINGOFSWORDS> thats same one i did again
[23:04] <popey> yeah, no probs, I see
[23:04] <popey> now the next one...  "sudo apt-get install nvidia-current"
[23:04] <directhex> running it several times is harmless. the command refreshes the list of packages your system is able to install, from the online lists of packages you have configured
[23:04] <KINGOFSWORDS> ok
[23:05] <KINGOFSWORDS> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 65 not upgraded
[23:05] <KINGOFSWORDS> shall i copy whole thing from nvidia currenet?
[23:05] <directhex> yes
[23:06]  * popey needs to go to bed
[23:06] <KINGOFSWORDS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/591901/
[23:06] <directhex> well that's saying you already have the nvidia driver installed. have you rebooted recently?
[23:07] <KINGOFSWORDS> are drivers different for each graphics card type?
[23:07] <KINGOFSWORDS> yeh rebooted couple of time 30 mins a go
[23:07] <KINGOFSWORDS> my pc froze
[23:07] <KINGOFSWORDS> whilst messing with jocky installs
[23:07] <popey> directhex: worth a sudo nvidia-xconfig ?
[23:07] <directhex> well, there are three or four nvidia drivers, and one ati driver
[23:08] <KINGOFSWORDS> i tried xorg.conf and couldnt find it
[23:08] <directhex> popey, perhaps. or a check of Xorg.0.log
[23:08] <popey> KINGOFSWORDS: what happens if you run "sudo nvidia-xconfig"
[23:08] <KINGOFSWORDS> i mean are they all same such as the 8 series uses one or all geforce use same one
[23:09] <directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, that's... slightly complicated. i think there are two drivers that can do the 8000 series
[23:09] <directhex> maybe three
[23:09] <KINGOFSWORDS> WARNING: Unable to locate/open X configuration file.
[23:09] <KINGOFSWORDS> New X configuration file written to '/etc/X11/xorg.conf'
[23:09] <brobostigon> goog night everyone, sleep well.
[23:11] <popey> KINGOFSWORDS: that's kinda a good sign :)
[23:11] <directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, basically occasionally nvidia drop support for a card or bunch of cards in the new drivers, so the old driver needs to be kept. so there's the newest driver, and three "old" drivers, in the archive, to handle all the different cards
[23:11] <popey> the fact that the config didnt exist and now does
[23:12] <KINGOFSWORDS> james@ubuntu:~$ Window manager warning: Invalid WM_TRANSIENT_FOR window 0x4c00003 specified for 0x4c00027 (StartUp-Ma).
[23:12] <popey> KINGOFSWORDS: did you just try to switch on compiz?
[23:13] <directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, you need to reboot after enabling the driver. well that's only half true, but rebooting is easiest
[23:13] <popey> indeed
[23:13] <popey> what he said
[23:14] <popey> now, I need bed
[23:14] <popey> nn all
[23:18] <KINGOFSWORDS_> pc just crashed again
[23:18] <directhex> after rebooting?
[23:18] <KINGOFSWORDS_> no thats y i rebooted
[23:19] <KINGOFSWORDS_> not being funny but this is y i moved to linux to stop this
[23:19] <directhex> KINGOFSWORDS_, when you say it crashed, it froze up, or what?
[23:19] <KINGOFSWORDS_> only installed it last nite and it duo core 2.4 with 4gb ram...dont see y it crashes with only 4 things open
[23:19] <KINGOFSWORDS_> its froze sorry so i rebooted
[23:20] <KINGOFSWORDS_> have i quit?
[23:20] <directhex> well, let's try something.
[23:20] <KINGOFSWORDS_> ok
[23:20] <directhex> open up a terminal again from applications/accessories
[23:20] <directhex> and type "grep nvidia_ /var/log/Xorg.0.log" - or just paste that in
[23:21] <directhex> the underscore is important
[23:21] <KINGOFSWORDS_> has popeye gone 2 bed?
[23:21] <directhex> popey has gone to bed, yes.
[23:21] <KINGOFSWORDS_> i cant copy in xchat
[23:22] <directhex> highlight the text to copy it, then middle-click to paste it
[23:22] <KINGOFSWORDS_> no middle button
[23:22] <directhex> oh... click both left & right at the same time, then!
[23:23] <KINGOFSWORDS_> (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/extra-modules/nvidia_drv.so
[23:23] <KINGOFSWORDS_> (II) Unloading /usr/lib/xorg/extra-modules/nvidia_drv.so
[23:23] <directhex> well, the good news is: you're using the nvidia driver, as you wanted to. so check whether you can ebale effects from the appearance settings?
[23:23] <KINGOFSWORDS_> omg...nice 1 been trying to find copy in xchat
[23:24] <KINGOFSWORDS_> ive diactivated the driver...should i turn back on
[23:24] <KINGOFSWORDS_> desktop effects could not be enabled
[23:25] <directhex> you activated it with the "nvidia-xconfig" command popey asked you to run - but it only switches when you reboot
[23:25] <KINGOFSWORDS_> ok
[23:25] <KINGOFSWORDS_> isnt the lack of compiz a driver issue thou?
[23:26] <directhex> right. use paste.debian.net in a browser - you can select a file to upload. browse to /var/log and upload Xorg.0.log
[23:29] <KINGOFSWORDS_> http://paste.debian.net/113552/
[23:29] <KINGOFSWORDS_> i have a Xorg.0.old.llog too...would that conflict?
[23:30] <directhex> whenever the GUI starts, it makes a fresh Xorg.0.log, and copies the old one to Xorg.0.log.old, so you can compare
[23:30] <directhex> this is good reading, though
[23:30] <directhex> hmm, let me thinl
[23:30] <directhex> think
[23:30] <KINGOFSWORDS_> ok
[23:31] <KINGOFSWORDS_> do u want jocky log too?
[23:31] <directhex> yeah, sure
[23:34] <KINGOFSWORDS_> http://paste.debian.net/113553/
[23:35] <KINGOFSWORDS_> omg jocky log is 2169 lines long wont send
[23:35] <directhex> don't worry about it
[23:35]  * Guest83277 hi room
[23:35] <directhex> let's work on the more immediate question
[23:36] <directhex> can you run "modinfo nvidia" in a terminal? it should either give a bunch of info, or a "not found" error. let me know which (i don't need the actual info, just to know which type it is, error or loads o' stuff)
[23:37] <KINGOFSWORDS_> left terminal on and theres more text from the grep thing u told me to do
[23:38] <KINGOFSWORDS_> could not find module nvidia
[23:38] <directhex> right, i'm getting a clearer picture of the problem
[23:38] <KINGOFSWORDS_> ok
[23:38] <KINGOFSWORDS_> i think i had a dodgy install
[23:39] <directhex> right. in the terminal, run "sudo dpkg-reconfigure nvidia-current".
[23:41] <KINGOFSWORDS_> ok done
[23:41] <KINGOFSWORDS_> install complete
[23:41] <directhex> "DKMS: install Completed." ?
[23:42] <KINGOFSWORDS_> yep
[23:42] <directhex> and if you do "modinfo nvidia", now there's a load of data?
[23:42] <KINGOFSWORDS_> nope
[23:42] <directhex> ... huh?
[23:43] <KINGOFSWORDS_> could not find module nvidia
[23:43] <directhex> can you paste the last bunch of lines from the terminal, everything from "dpkg-reconfigure" down?
[23:43] <directhex> onto a pastebin, that is
[23:43] <directhex> paste.ubuntu.com it
[23:44] <KINGOFSWORDS_> says no original module exsists in this kernel
[23:45] <directhex> i need to see the full output
[23:45] <KINGOFSWORDS_> http://paste.debian.net/113554/
[23:45] <KINGOFSWORDS_> sure
[23:45] <directhex> damn, sorry, my mistake
[23:45] <KINGOFSWORDS_> ok
[23:45] <directhex> i forgot about some of the ubuntuisms they do
[23:45] <directhex> "modinfo nvidia-current"
[23:46] <KINGOFSWORDS_> k that loaded alot of data..do u wanna c it?
[23:47] <directhex> nope, just wanted to know data was loaded
[23:47] <KINGOFSWORDS_> ok
[23:47] <directhex> now run "sudo modprobe nvidia-current". either it'll give an error, or no message at all
[23:48] <KINGOFSWORDS_> no msg
[23:48] <directhex> great!
[23:48] <KINGOFSWORDS_> =)
[23:48] <directhex> now run "sudo nvidia-xconfig", and reboot
[23:50] <KINGOFSWORDS> back
[23:51] <directhex> how's the effects situation?
[23:52] <KINGOFSWORDS> same as b4
[23:52] <directhex> hm
[23:52] <directhex> can you make a new paste on paste.debian.net of your /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
[23:52] <KINGOFSWORDS> no system >admin >hardware or visual effects
[23:52] <directhex> i'm wondering if you don't have a working driver now, but jockey's busted
[23:52] <KINGOFSWORDS> sure#
[23:53] <KINGOFSWORDS> http://paste.debian.net/113555/
[23:54] <KINGOFSWORDS> when i restarted it said didnt have graphics support or s'thing
[23:54] <KINGOFSWORDS> had to run with restricted graphics
[23:55] <KINGOFSWORDS> did i bust jockey?
[23:55] <directhex> huh... there's still something missing, i think
[23:55] <KINGOFSWORDS> ok
[23:56] <directhex> let's try this from another angle. open a terminal, and run "dpkg -l jockey-gtk". that's a lower-case L.
[23:57] <KINGOFSWORDS> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
[23:57] <KINGOFSWORDS> | Status=Not/Inst/Cfg-files/Unpacked/Failed-cfg/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
[23:57] <KINGOFSWORDS> |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
[23:57] <KINGOFSWORDS> ||/ Name           Version        Description
[23:57] <KINGOFSWORDS> +++-[23:57] <KINGOFSWORDS> rc  jockey-gtk     0.5.8-0ubuntu8 GNOME user interface and desktop integration
[23:57] <directhex> so jockey is uninstalled
[23:58] <KINGOFSWORDS> ok....did i do that
[23:58] <directhex> let's reinstall that. type "sudo apt-get install jockey-gtk"
[23:59] <KINGOFSWORDS> done
[23:59] <directhex> your icon should be back in System/Administration