[00:46] oc80z seems to be almost anything but helpful [00:47] FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from oc80z) [00:47] indeed. [01:04] soreau called the ops in #ubuntu (george) [01:05] where? [01:05] not a clue [01:06] from msg maybe? [01:07] no, ops calls don't count in /msg [01:07] !help | test [01:07] test: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) [01:07] !caps | test [01:08] test: PLEASE DON'T SHOUT! We can read lowercase too. [01:08] those are the only two calls I see [01:09] must have been the !help one somehow [01:09] I can't reproduce in other channels [01:09] ! help [01:09] Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) [01:10] oh well === KB1JWQ is now known as Corey [03:48] no bot worstbot for ajin's comment [03:50] ** whining about Unity, discussion, and support channel [04:00] augh [07:18] hey, can i propose a link to http://loco.ubuntu.com in the topic in #ubuntu ? [07:20] You can certainly propose it, yes. :) [07:21] I don't know if we'd do it, since that /topic frequently gets long as it is. We recently had to resort to goo.gl shortened URLs for a while. [08:07] the goo.gl URLs are still there. unfortunately. [08:28] rww is attacking me personally [08:28] why must he do this :( [08:29] It's not like I've explained this over, and over, and over again, and it's not like the same sentiment has been given by other people in there. [08:29] you have [08:29] You are constantly irritating other channel members. It's annoying. You fail miserably at not doing it, even when you claim that you're trying. [08:29] but you continue to flagrantly violate ubuntus policies yourself [08:30] and you make no attempt to stop [08:30] screw this. You're going to be annoying in here whether or not I ban you, so... [08:30] you know what, i knew this would happen [08:30] Please feel absolutely free to go complain to the IRC Council. [08:30] this is a clear abuse of op power [08:30] i will [08:31] how do i contact them [08:31] In the meantime, please feel absolutely free to go to sleep. [08:31] !appeals > ryaxnb_ [08:31] ryaxnb_, please see my private message [08:31] i will also remain here for the time being and complain [08:31] Why am I not surprised. [08:32] ryaxnb_: unfortunately this won't happen, if you don't have ongoing discussion here, we would kindly ask you to part [08:32] that is ok [08:32] i will part for now [08:36] i posted this in #ubuntu-irc-council as well [08:36] ryaxnb_: can you just go away instead. [08:36] ryaxnb_: I was wondering if you could leave forever and not come back. [08:36] I literally can not think of one person in this channel that has said they want you in here. [08:36] annoying is subjective ryaxnb_: Not in your case, it isn't. [08:36] if you are not here, i will be back [08:36] * rww facepalms [08:36] I wish your system still used dialup internet. It might decrease your online time. [08:36] ryaxnb_: please stop [08:36] someone please troll ryaxnb_ recursively into submission... big_t: We've tried, it doesn't work ;( [08:36] ryaxnb_: you've been told what to do [08:36] big_t: I set the channel to quiet him and not tell him he couldn't send to the channel once. It took him days to notice. [08:36] ryaxnb_: STOP [08:36] * rww sets ban on *!*@dsl-63-249-87-215.dhcp.cruzio.com [08:36] i read the appeal list [08:36] ryaxnb_: you did not [08:36] it said to go here first oddly enough [08:36] i did [08:36] and you had been here [08:37] it didn't say join this channel and paste a load of stuff [08:37] ryaxnb_: please don't flood [08:37] sorry. [08:37] ryaxnb_: anything else ? [08:37] but if you look through that you will see evidence of rww leading a planned crusade against me with personal attacks [08:37] nmo [08:37] no [08:37] its plain and obvious [08:37] ryaxnb_: then complain to the council as you've been told [08:38] so you see that wall of personal attacks and youre not going to do ANYTHING about it? [08:38] :/ [08:38] ryaxnb_: come on now [08:38] come on now? [08:38] " Not in your case, it isn't." [08:38] lets not waste any more time [08:38] ? [08:38] thats a personal attack, plain and simple [08:38] by rww [08:38] ryaxnb_: you provoke the channel on a regular basis [08:38] The tone of my comments is a function of how many times you've failed to listen to peoples' comments on your behavior. [08:38] it would be easier if you just toned it down [08:38] i always listen [08:38] and i have toned it down [08:38] ryaxnb_: one moment please [08:39] i have made the choice to escalate this and if you refuse to do anything i will not only post this on irc, but email the logs, the ancedotes and my amended version to the council [08:40] ryaxnb_: you've been banned / kicked multiple times from #ubuntu-offtopic by multiple operators [08:40] As I already said, please go right ahead and do that. [08:40] im starting now [08:40] or maybe, not use the channel [08:40] ryaxnb_: I think we either need to sort out the reason you're getting removed a lot, [08:40] each time i was banned/kicked, funnily enough, they could not find a reason to ban me in terms of a rule i violated [08:40] ryaxnb_: there are multiple reasons [08:40] so they trumped up a minor violation [08:41] that never usually results in a ban [08:41] yes, but multiple minor viloations are a problem [08:41] i stopped with the enter violation some time ago [08:41] looking at the logs, you've been given lots of chances/warnings and then end up getting kicked [08:41] Your attitude in this channel, and repetition of points I've addressed even today, just show your inability to listen. [08:41] when? [08:41] also, can i see the logs? [08:41] ryaxnb_: in seriousness it maybe the channels guidelines may not fit in with how you want to use an irc channel [08:42] ryaxnb_: it maybe better if you use a different channel that is more open to the way you want to use an irc channel [08:42] ikonia, i have read the guidelines and they do fit in [08:42] at least with the way i intend to use THIS channel [08:42] ryaxnb_: you really think your conversation sits "ok" [08:42] in #ubuntu-offtopic [08:42] yes [08:42] and i think it was a lot better than rwws personal attacks at the least [08:43] ok, well, I guess the best thing to do then is to follow the guideslined you've been given and lodge a complaint with the irc council [08:43] can i see the logs? [08:43] One issue here is that you think that you can interpret the IRC guidelines however you want, and that that makes your behavior okay. This is not the case. Ubuntu's operator team are in charge of interpreting guidelines and acting accordingly, and the IRC Council is in charge of making sure we do that properly. [08:43] ryaxnb_: the logs are public, [08:43] !logs | ryaxnb_ [08:43] ryaxnb_: Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/ [08:43] thank you [08:44] rww, i most empthatically do not interpet them [08:44] No, you misinterpret them. [08:44] as i said, i follow the rules in letter and spirit [08:44] ryaxnb_: best you lodge your complaint now and leave [08:44] it's going to go nowhere otherwise [08:44] ok [08:44] Considering that the things I said are entirely focused on your behavior and not on your person, I reject your framing of them as "personal attacks". [08:44] bye [08:44] bye [08:44] he'll be back in any minute, considering the offtopic is not logged [08:44] ahhhh [08:45] I didn't think of that [08:45] I was wondering which channel's logs he wanted, yes. [08:45] totally missed that [08:45] sorry [08:45] didn't think [08:45] no problem, he didn't specify it either [08:45] just didn't click, [08:46] rather confrontational personality, that one [08:46] hypatia: you're opped in -women, btw [08:47] it's easy to get that way if you feel you are being picked on, however the BT records show the volume of bans he's had by other operators also suggests there is an issue that needs to be resolved [08:47] but such fashional hat suits? [08:47] ikonia: indeed, and I never like when a person goes to attack when being disciplined [08:48] it's easy to understand though if you feel you're being picked on [08:48] I fully agree [08:49] but I try to hold on the "there's no excuses for bad behaviour" rule of mine [08:49] I can be furious about it, but I try to first sort it politely (and prolly drop the matter if that doesn't work) [08:49] s/it/of something/ [08:51] just getting logs from this chan [08:51] rww: oh thanks [08:52] I'll notify ryax about the no need of inform us about his moves [08:54] is offtopic logged in there? [08:54] i dont see it! [08:54] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/10/ [08:54] i have of course created my own log [08:54] #ubuntu-offtopic is not publicly logged. [08:54] I think ikonia thought you meant #ubuntu-ops. [08:55] ah. [08:55] sorry, my fault [08:55] I totally forgot #ubuntu-offtopic isn't logged [08:56] ikonia, i created my own private log of the event from my scrollback which luckily covered all of it [08:56] I gave you the link for all the logged channels forgetting #ubuntu-offtopic isn't logged, sorry [08:56] tis ok [08:56] i will attach my log to the irc council complaint. [08:56] ryaxnb_: All of the IRCC people are in #ubuntu-offtopic anyway. Presumably there are plenty of logs to go around. [08:56] ok, [08:56] cya [08:58] heh, only one CC person in there. lucky them. [09:35] kevin6888296, hi [09:36] * rww suspects they're asleep, given the time and location [09:43] maybe worth removing him [09:44] ikonia: uh, from where? [09:45] here [09:45] kevin6888296 #ubuntu-ops [10:37] hello bassem [10:38] ikonia, hello :-) [10:38] bassem: how can we help today ? [10:39] ikonia, I wonder if this channel is responsible of logging in http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ ?! [10:39] it is [10:39] to an extent [10:40] in that this channel is responsible for the namespaces but not the physical logging [10:40] is there a problem ? [10:41] bassem: irclogs.ubuntu.com is maintained by Canonical, with the help of the ubuntulog bot. [10:41] ikonia, no there isn't, but I want to add the bot to our LoCo channel! [10:41] (which is currently sporting its alternate nick, ubuntulo1) [10:41] ah ha [10:42] bassem: email rt@ubuntu.com, they can do that [10:42] is it a "must" to have loggin bot in LoCo channel? [10:43] I don't believe so [10:43] bassem: probably best to ask the LoCo Council that, they'd be more likely to know :) [10:43] I'm aware of loco channels without the box [10:43] bots [10:44] ikonia, oh great! our channel is #ubuntu-ae , please take a look and tell us if there's anything missing! [10:45] truthfully, I'm not fully aware without looking of all the requirement [10:45] "s" [10:46] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/CreatingChannels theoretically covers all of the points. [10:50] ikonia, rww , thank you for your help :-) [11:29] bassem: no problem [11:29] bassem: if you don't need anything else, we ask that you leave the channel so that people who need asstance can be helped [11:30] ikonia, ok [11:37] ikonia: actually the loco council did mandate that locos should log their channels [11:37] they main channel anyway [11:37] I had no idea [11:38] yeah, I'm not entirely happy about it [11:51] should... but this is not monitored in any way? [11:53] jungli now randomly pm'ing me asking me how to make money out of ubuntu [11:53] nice to know you're in somebody's mind [12:43] rww, ftr, i sorta want ryaxnb to be there. i don't know what he did to upset you this time, and i know his monologues are weird and annoying, so maybe i'm just weird myself about not disliking him... but i don't particularly [12:43] LjL, it was not just rww that was having problems with him. [12:44] i realize that [12:44] it the majority of the channel [12:44] err plus was [12:45] well what can i say, i just wanted to mention that i don't mind him myself (not making a judgment about the validity of this latest ban, though, as i haven't looked at the logs as i said) [12:46] sure; it was not a matter of personal like or dislike; he just claims that so he can overlook his own behavior [12:46] if you only read every second or third line from him it makes complete sense and isn't as irritating [12:47] he isn't a bad kid and no I don't dislike him either. [12:48] as was mentioned, he just does not pay attention to what is going on around him [12:48] He over powers the channel [12:48] I think that is what is bothersome about him. [12:50] this has happened a ton of times, and he *always* claims it is abuse of power [12:51] yup [12:51] were it some other op removing/quieting/banning him they would be blamed for op abuse [12:54] i see it's a pretty long discussion (unsurprisingly) that led to the ban, so i'm not sure i want to go through all of it (as much as i like logs, i have a lot of difficulty actually following them, for some reason) [12:54] but without trying to guess about the reasons of the ban(s), i just don't feel his monologues alone warrant action, even though i suppose they can be annoying... he just likes to talk, what's wrong with that [12:56] he seems to be of the "o hai listen to my internal monologue" variety of verbose irc'er [12:58] LjL: nothing wrong with him liking to talk, it is the fact that he talks alone and doesn't notice that his talking to himself is disruptive to actual conversations going on. [13:01] maybe it is the rest of us. I mean what if we actually took time to talk with him and not /to/ him [13:01] does that make sense ^ ? [13:02] i want to try talking to, i mean with him about this [13:02] though i guess i need to actually read the logs before i do *sigh* [13:03] I know a young kid who likes talking about video games A LOT. it used to drive me crazy because he could go on for ever if I let him. One day I started to talk with him and listen and realized that he just wanted to talk with me, didn't really matter about what. [13:03] much like ryaxnb [13:03] In ubottu, arand said: !mainline is The kernel team supply continuous mainline kernel builds which can be useful for tracking down issues or testing recent changes in the Linux kernel. More information is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds [13:03] yes, that's the impression i get too... [13:04] you know i can understand him, because i'm really very monothematic and fixated myself. when i start being interested in something, it's like i cannot be interested in anything else, and can only find conversation topics about my fixation [13:04] i guess that's not so evident because i can control myself and just, well, don't say much of anything [13:05] but i can totally understand the need to talk and the fact you can't find anything but your own fixations to talk about [13:05] !mainline [13:05] So, conclusion is that we need to still enforce the channel rules but we also need to listen to him and try and be his friend. Stop looking at him like he is trolling because I really don't believe he is trolling. [13:06] +1 [13:06] that factoid request useful? [13:07] seems useful to me, might want to make a mention of it in !kernel too... [13:07] !mainline is The kernel team supply continuous mainline kernel builds which can be useful for tracking down issues or testing recent changes in the Linux kernel. More information is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds [13:07] I'll remember that, IdleOne [13:07] !kernel [13:07] The core of the Ubuntu Operating System is the Linux kernel: see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel - You shouldn't have to compile your own, but if you're convinced you do, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile - See also: /msg ubottu stages [13:07] i mean it's probably better to use one of those mainline packages than try building it yourself [13:08] LjL: edit !kernel :) [13:08] i don't have bot access [13:08] ok tell me what to edit exactly [13:09] let's see [13:10] !mainline > arand [13:11] The core of Ubuntu is the Linux kernel: see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel - You shouldn't have to compile your own, and if you need to troubleshoot issues, you can try a !Mainline kernel instea, but if you insist, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile (see also !Stages) [13:12] s/instea/instead/ [13:12] !no kernel is The core of Ubuntu is the Linux kernel: see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel - You shouldn't have to compile your own, and if you need to troubleshoot issues, you can try a !Mainline kernel instead, but if you insist, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile (see also !Stages) [13:12] I'll remember that IdleOne [13:13] thank you. [13:13] "if you insist" isn't meant to be sarcy, but just to make things a bit shorter since i otherwise made them longer [13:14] looks polite and friendly to me [13:36] LjL: I wondered if ryaxb may benifit from a different channel that he can just randomly spout his monologue based stuff [13:37] or better still, put him on +q so he can talk and be happy but no-one can see him (that of couse is a joke) [13:38] :) [13:38] well he is in ##club, maybe he can just stay there, i don't know really [13:38] ikonia: that was tried, took a week before he complained [13:38] /noticed [13:39] LjL: that may be (in seriousness) a better channel [13:39] I don't understand why people need to be in a channel that doesn't meet their needs, when there are channels which will [13:39] not like they can stand his monologues much there either [13:39] they don't ban there, but they can be extremely harsh [13:39] no, but it is a much more loose channel [13:40] ok, so he gets banned in #ubuntu-offtopic or mocked in ##club-ubuntu.....seems like it's not welcome in either [13:40] #defocus ? [13:40] defocus isn't much better [13:41] I just wonder if there is a better place he can just do what he wants to do, rather then try to make an issue to make the channel what he wants, find a channel that ticks his needs [13:42] #/dev/null? :P [13:42] well.....I wouldn't dream of suggesting that [13:42] what's the names of those auto kline channels again....... [13:42] (joke for the log readers) [13:43] they don't exist [13:44] I think what he needs is gentle guidance, thought a more socially acceptable way of interacting. I think that banning him and sending him off to be mocked in some channel is the wrong approach. [13:44] but you could always suggest he nick to one of rww's personas [13:44] hehe [13:44] IdleOne: he doesn't seem to respond to it [13:44] ikonia: because we respond to him negatively. we assume he is trolling or trying to. [13:45] if you read the earlier bans people have tried [13:45] yes and we have failed [13:45] the reason he doesn't get cut any slack is because it goes on and on after people tried to guide him [13:45] I don't think we have failed, I just think his approach to chatting doesn't fit in and he can't moderate it himeself [13:45] we need to keep trying. IF he was a bad seed I could see dropping him off in the woods somewhere but he isn't bad. [13:46] so perhaps we should make a deal with him that when someone says "please stop with the monologue", he complains without a fuss [13:46] comply ? [13:46] err yes comply [13:47] He reminds me a lot of my little cousin with Asberger (sic) [13:47] freudian slip ;( [13:47] i didn't want to say that but yes [13:48] very intelligent but gets stuck on a topic until he has reasoned it out to it's full completion. [13:48] I'm not saying he is autistic. just I see similarities [13:49] is that an offer to talk to him IdleOne ? [13:49] no [13:49] it's a suggestion that we all try harder with him [13:50] We are Ubuntu after all. [13:52] yes a Linux project not a social grooming service [13:53] well #ubuntu-offtopic is supposed to be about social though [13:53] and honestly i think we've long let people in it who are much more obnoxious [13:53] ginbuntu for one [13:53] I agree [13:53] and i say ginbuntu only because that's a recent one, but there've been others [13:53] at least (we think) ryaxnb isn't doing it to be a troll on purpose [13:54] still doing it though, repeated [13:55] ikonia: I started my first time in -ot with a ban from seveas because I was swearing and told him to go elsewhere. Had he not taken the time to talk to me I would not be an op. [13:55] I can't see ryax being permabanned, the matter just need to be settled, and it takes something from him too [13:56] IdleOne: did you listen to what was being said ? [13:56] but pretty much what IdleOne says [13:56] i think let's see what rww has to say when he's around later [13:56] ikonia: I did because Seveas didn't assume I was a troll. [13:56] IdleOne: no-one is assuming ryaxb is is [13:56] he just figured I was another irc'er used to swearing and it being ok [13:57] however people are speaking to him on a regular basis, and he's not chaning [13:57] changing/listening [13:57] well, he may not be able to change [13:58] like Tm_T said we need to see some change from him also but I don't think this is the time to give up on him [13:58] which is why i'm suggesting maybe some trick like agreeing with him that when someone specific says "stop", it's stop [13:58] LjL: like a "mentor" or two? [13:58] no-one is saying give up on him, but that doesn't mean allow it to continue [13:59] same onld loop, ban / remove / repeat / ban / complain / remove [13:59] IdleOne: or even a few, since a couple won't always be around. it just needs to be people he likes enough to listen to in such cases [13:59] why does he have to like you to listen [14:00] ikonia: it's about those few people he likes and trust to give him the queues to stop and let him know he is going over the line. [14:00] i don't know, i just doubt at this point he'd agree to do that with rww or you, but maybe i'm wrong [14:00] no no- you're right, [14:00] ikonia: basically what we'd be asking is for him to stop *even if* he thinks the request is unwarranted [14:00] so yes it needs to be people he at least respects [14:01] yes, from anyone [14:01] no not from anyone, that's unreasonable to ask [14:01] i won't stop doing whatever i'm doing if some random person asks me to and i don't think the request is warranted [14:01] so if I ask him to stop - and he ignores it, how does that get delt with as he I'm not one of the ferw he's agreed to [14:02] good question [14:02] if he can't deal with the community members guiding him maybe the deal is comply with the operators if you agree or not [14:02] well you're an op, so he should still listen, or face action [14:02] but if someone is around who is his "mentor", they might want to try asking him first [14:02] thing is that it has to be clear that not just the ops can tell him. [14:03] so, let him know that any op + a few other non ops [14:03] that's pretty reasonable [14:03] IdleOne: one step at a time [14:03] hehe [14:04] it may help if the guys from say ##club-ubuntu also try to keep the same line (impractical I accept) so that he's not flipping between the channels [14:04] yeah well I don't see that happening [14:05] LjL: you may be well placed [14:05] * ikonia pushes LjL forward [14:05] i will talk to the club ops about that [14:06] nah, I meant for him [14:06] as a mentor [14:07] sure, if he's ok with that. i guess it will depends how he feels about me after i talk to him later ;) [15:03] hello [15:03] can I get unbanned in #ubuntu pls I need some help [15:03] I found some bug in ubuntu with motorola cable modem and argued with ikonia about it and he baedm e :S [15:04] I am banned few days and I need some help to ask as I am new to ubuntu [15:05] dejan_: hi, one moment and I look around a bit [15:05] Thanks alot! [15:07] dejan_: while I'm digging the logs, you're aware that you've been flooding the channel several times in past month? [15:08] I used many new lines and fast writing [15:08] not intentional flooding [15:09] i was exited about bug i foud and argued a bit with ikonia on it he said something i haven't read it and keep writing new lines and he banned me :) [15:09] guys [15:09] let my ban [15:09] for more time [15:09] but [15:09] ubuntu have bug with motorola cable modem [15:09] certain version, it can't connect to it [15:09] ok calm down [15:09] you're doing the same thing now ;) why don't you try to put your thoughts together first, and write one line per logical thought at least? [15:09] i will tell you exact version of the modem in a moment [15:09] no [15:10] this is not a support channel [15:10] !bug | dejan_ [15:10] dejan_: If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug using the command « ubuntu-bug » - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs - Bugs in/wishes for the IRC bots (not Ubuntu) can be filed at http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots [15:10] just stop and wait for Tm_T to take a look at the ban [15:10] what IdleOne said (: [15:10] Motorola SB5101E SurfBoard Cable modem [15:10] with older version of the same modem I had no problems but this can't connect to my ubuntu box at all [15:11] I found extremely hard to fill a bug with launchpad :S [15:12]