[04:11] <ScottL> ailo, i'm hoping to test the -generic and -lowlatency kernels tomorrow morning before anyone wakes up
[04:11] <ScottL> ailo, any suggestions on what you would like to see?
[04:11] <ailo> ScottL, You mean 2.6.39?
[04:11] <ScottL> ailo, any specifics you might want?
[04:11] <ScottL> yes for the -lowlatency 2.6.39
[04:12] <ScottL> i don't even know if 2.6.39 -generic is available at this point
[04:12] <ailo> They were built wrong, so they are actually -generic kernels
[04:12] <ScottL> oh, okay, maybe not then
[04:12] <ailo> ScottL, They are a little unstable too. I get some crashes with them, so it might be a good idea to wait a little
[04:13] <ScottL> i'll wait, i'll spend the time playing with the ubuntustudio plymouth theme and see if i can suss out why it isn't working (at least for me)
[04:14] <ScottL> ailo, someone filed a bug about -controls not building for natty, i kinda laughed a little when i read that
[04:15] <ailo> ScottL, The original -controls?
[04:15] <ScottL> i'll respond to the bug report to say that -controls are no longer in the natty seeds and report the state of -controls
[04:15] <ScottL> ailo, i expect the original -controls
[04:16] <ScottL> bug 756080
[04:16] <ScottL> i might just change the importance at this point so nobody gets worried about something that isn't even going on the image for natty
[04:17] <ScottL> maybe this is because of the new gcc, maybe not, just thinking about all the trouble falktx has been having
[04:17] <ailo> ScottL, I can take that bug, if you don't mind, since I'm already doing two others on that
[04:20] <ScottL> ailo, oh sure :)
[04:20] <ScottL> ailo, if you can't change the importance just let me know
[04:22] <ailo> ScottL, That I can't. But, I did change it to invalid, and made a comment
[04:24] <ailo> Though, perhaps invalid is not right, after all?
[04:59] <ScottL> i'm not really sure myself
[05:02] <ailo> ScottL, I will take another look later. At least I will have to explain why it shouldn't be built for Natty.
[05:02] <ailo> Unless, one is changing the source
[05:03] <ailo> And, what is that they are building? It's python, so he must only be trying to build the package
[05:08] <ailo> ScottL, I deem it invalid, because he is trying to build a package for Natty that won't be included in Natty.
[05:46] <Kokito> hello  folks
[05:54] <ailo> Hey Kokito 
[06:03] <Kokito> hey ailo 
[06:03] <ailo> sup?
[06:09] <Kokito> not much ailo 
[06:10] <Kokito> relaxing after having a good plate of spinach ravioli for dinner
[06:11]  * ailo had some waffles before with coffee, while working on some puredata code
[06:15] <Kokito> ailo: am I right to assume that you are somewhere in Europe?
[06:17] <ailo> Kokito, Gothenburg, Sweden
[06:17] <ailo> Kokito, Kokito sounds Japanese
[06:18] <Kokito> ah, cool. I am in northern California, about 100km east of San Francisco
[06:18] <Kokito> ailo: Kokito is the diminutive of Koki, which was my nickname when I was a child :)
[06:19] <Kokito> although I am kind of half-Japanese, not ethnically, but in spirity, because I lived there for about 23 years :)
[06:20] <ailo> Kokito, Wow. Then you must be. I find there is some resemblance between my country men and Japanese people. I'm really a Finn, but grew up in Sweden.
[06:21] <ailo> No samurais in Finland, though
[06:22] <Kokito> hehe :)
[06:23] <Kokito> I did hear something to the effect that finns and Japanese have some commonalities, but I am not sure what they are
[06:25] <ailo> Kokito, The language is somewhat similar. But, not directly. Also, there are some cultural peculiarities that show in statistics. Higher suicide rate amongst other things
[06:26] <ailo> The language may be related, but the trail goes back really far. Turkish and Japanese are probably related, and Finno-Ugric is probably related to Turkish
[06:27] <ailo> The grammatics is what makes them similar
[06:30] <Kokito> interesting
[06:31] <Kokito> that would make it easy for me to learn the Finnish language then :)
[06:33] <ailo> Kokito, I would think so. They are phonetically similar too. I saw a Japanese comedy show where they would call up Finnish people using a phone book, laughing at their last names, cause they meant something funny in Japanese
[06:34] <ailo> Kokito, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeCOzpYXrKE
[06:35]  * Kokito is watching
[06:35] <Kokito> ailo: it is funny
[14:13] <ScottL> ailo, gnome3 "superkey and start typing app name" way of opening a file has good things and bad things
[14:13] <ScottL> to start firefox was quick :)
[14:13] <ScottL> to start terminal was not :(
[14:14] <ScottL> for firefox i hit "super" "fire" and pushed the enter key...viola, firefox was up   ->  nice :)
[14:14] <ScottL> for terminal i hit "super" "terminal" and pushed enter....booo, i got terminal services ->   argh :(
[14:15] <ailo> I was able to use the word terminal, and it's searching at the same time I type, on Unity. I can then use the arrows to choose the terminal
[14:15] <ScottL> i tried "super" "terminal" tab key, then enter (thinking it might jump over to terminal from terminal services...didn't work
[14:15] <ScottL> ah, didn't try the arrow key, i can do that after it installs the studio packages
[14:15] <ailo> The lauchers appear under the search field for me
[14:16] <ailo> But, I would want those functions to be even smarte
[14:16] <ailo> smarter*
[14:16] <ScottL> it does under gnome3, just in the small panel on the left instead of the main screen
[14:16] <ailo> Also, I realized that I need to choose a category, before apps that weren't installed appear as search results.
[14:16] <ScottL> if i'm going to the trouble to take my hand of the mouse i want to make sure i can complete my task without putting it back on the mouse :/
[14:17] <ailo> I feel I can do that, but not with perfect smoothness
[14:17] <ScottL> i'm still leaning towards the thought that having a small set of definable icons that the use can change their visibility based on a "category" that only requires one click (perhaps two at most) to launch an applicaiton is better, faster, easier
[14:18] <ailo> I don't feel one needs to exclude the other, but I don't know what quick-launcher-bars will work under these systems
[14:19] <ailo> wbar didn't seem to work under Unity
[14:19] <ScottL> i'm also worried that the gnome3 that i'm using is a generation or so behind the gnome3 that was released this week
[14:20] <ScottL> therefore, to make an accurate test of gnome3 i might have to wait until it is released properly for natty
[14:21] <ailo> Waiting for Alpha 1 is a long wait. One would want to try on the system before that, but then it won't probably be very stable.
[14:23] <ScottL> but i would hope it's feature set would be more complete, even if unstable
[14:24] <ScottL> i just realized that i did not just try to search for gnome3 packages in synaptic while under natty, i kept trying "tutorials" on the web that suggested various PPA's
[14:24] <ScottL> i might find gnome3 just under synaptic in natty now :P
[14:25] <ailo> ScottL, Since Gnome3 will include the classic desktop, that is also an option for Oneiric
[14:25] <ailo> At least, I think it will include it
[14:29] <ScottL> that's a good question, it's unfortunate that shuttleworth and the "inner circle" aren't very vocal about what their direction is :/
[14:30] <ScottL> i suppose it is possible that they don't have a definitive directions and are waiting to see how things "develop" (sorry for the pun)
[14:31] <ailo> ScottL, I'm sure they need some user experience
[14:32] <ScottL> i don't know, i'm starting to read some criticism of canonical not including community in decisions from quarters that have been, unto now, quite biased towards ubuntu/canonical
[14:33] <ScottL> i don't want to be misunderstood, i believe wayland is a good move ultimately, x is old and retains crap loads of legacy code
[14:34] <ScottL> but i don't like being blindsided by some of the decisions, especially when we are trying to develop an officially recognized flavour of ubuntu
[14:34] <ailo> It's like they are being a little bold, and making waved. I hope this will lead to faster progress. After all, the changes seem to be pretty big
[14:34] <ailo> waves*
[14:35] <ScottL> right
[14:35] <ScottL> but my point is that if they are making long term decisions, it would be nice to be involved slightly, even if just a courtesy email as a "head up"
[14:36] <ScottL> i realize we are such a niche flavour, we don't get mentioned much in magazines unless it's a special about ubuntu studio, i routinely see the rote "ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, mythbuntu" tag
[14:37] <ScottL> but i also wonder how much consideration the other flavours received in the decision making process, i'm presuming not much
[14:37] <ScottL> which i understand for kubuntu and xubuntu for the most part, they use different DE's
[14:38] <ailo> Yeah, don't think KDE is affected in any way.
[14:38] <ailo> And perhaps not XFCE either
[14:40] <ScottL> if we could get the documentation in order and really, really organized and effective
[14:40] <ScottL> if we could update the website so that it is suave and new and compelling
[14:41] <ScottL> if we could blitz the media with emails, blogs, maybe even interviews (and i mean even emailing published magazines)
[14:41] <ScottL> even sending emails to linux outlaws, canonical or jono
[14:41] <ScottL> i think we could step up respect for ubuntu studio
[14:41] <ScottL> get more people involved and active
[14:41] <ailo> ScottL, It would be really great if Oneiric was a release where US turns a leaf and becomes a truly well supported multimedia system
[14:42] <ScottL> but the distro would need to be lean, efficient, and effective
[14:42] <ScottL> ailo, yes, it would
[14:42] <ScottL> :)
[14:42] <ailo> ScottL, I'm on the boat and determined to get documentation and -controls in order.
[14:42] <ScottL> that's awesome!
[14:43] <ScottL> i really, really, really (really!) appreciate you involvement
[14:43] <ScottL> you and old holstein are the two most involved people
[14:43] <ScottL> alessio is too, but it's rather specific of course ;)
[14:44] <ScottL> if we could get a better grip on the other multimedia parts of studio i bet i could even setup an interview with libre grahics magazine
[14:44] <ailo> ScottL, Well. I'm really happy to be involved. Once you see what needs to be done, you just to get it done. The unfinished work is like a bad dream, you want to get rid of ;)
[14:44] <ScottL> they have already offered us a full-page advert for free :)
[14:45] <ScottL> ailo, aye, it's the "getting it done" part that troubles most people
[14:45] <ScottL> they have good intentions but it seems that most of them require someone to tell them how to do it step-by-step
[14:45] <ScottL> which is not bad if it's one or two people :P
[14:46] <ailo> This time around, I'm ahead of what I need to know in order to work things out. Natty was too much at once for me
[14:46] <ailo> So, I can forgive myself on account of that
[14:46] <ScottL> lol, yeah it was a lot to do in one cycle :)
[14:48] <ScottL> hmmm, i just realized that i probably broke my gnome3 install by installing ubuntustudio-default-settings
[14:48] <ScottL> it will try to adjust the menu and panels :(
[14:48] <ScottL> i should have just installed ardour and let it pull in the required dependencies :/
[14:49] <ailo> ScottL, Did you see Ralfs last post? I think he might be warming up on the idea of using a preempt kernel without the realtime patch :P
[14:49] <ailo> Since Rui had good things to say about it, if nothing else
[14:49] <ScottL> i saw that i had email and that he was one of them
[14:50] <ScottL> ralf seems very smart, just seems to have some trouble interfacing with people sometimes
[14:52] <ailo> He has an unusual way of getting his point across.
[15:02] <ScottL> he certainly seems very, very knowledgeable
[15:31] <ScottL> eh, all the studio apps installed okay on gnome3, but it's still a pain to switch between the apps
[15:33] <ScottL> but of course that is the gnome3 on maverick which may not be the best testing platform
[15:43] <ailo> ScottL, If I have an objection against Unity (and will have to try Gnome3 to find out) its' not being able to switch apps easily.
[15:44] <ailo> I use Alt + Tab, but it's a little slow and hard to identify the open windows
[15:44] <ailo> I would rather it just brought up a window on top, instead of showing a list of small windows
[15:45] <ailo> I'll be gone for most of the day. See you later..
[23:47] <rlameiro> evening
[23:52] <rlameiro> ScottL: ping