[07:58] <dpm> good morning all
[07:58] <andrejz> morning
[07:58] <dpm> hey andrejz :)
[07:58] <artnay> hi dpm
[07:59] <artnay> dpm: chrome upstream importing overwrited (once again) chromium translations, should I file a bug against LP itself?
[07:59] <artnay> I did /q to fta but he hasn't replied yet
[08:00] <artnay> I've fixed many oopsies made by chrome translator(s) (hired by google, I guess) but chrome imports have overwrited those fixes
[08:00] <artnay> hence those translations are now wrong in both chrome and chromium
[08:01] <artnay> grr, chrome translators should review the changes made in rosetta and take those to upstream when suitable
[08:02] <artnay> I'm pretty sure this problem exists in all languages that chromium is translated into
[08:03] <artnay> henninge:
[08:03] <andrejz> @artnay: probably languages without official google translations are better off
[08:05] <dpm> hi artnay, just tell fta on #ubuntu-mozillateam, with the exact details. afaik, the setup he's got is explicitly to overcome this problem
[08:12] <artnay> I wonder if this affects other projects as well
[08:13] <andrejz> hm, artnay i am looking at it right now and it seems some strange strings arrived on 2011-01-10
[08:14] <artnay> andrejz: chromium strings update approximately once a week
[08:14] <andrejz> but i am not sure whether these were untranslated strings, which were automatically translated from upstream or if our strings were overwritten
[08:15] <artnay> a lot of new strings appear and unused ones gets tossed away
[08:15] <andrejz> yeah, we noticed that. maintaining chromium translations is rather difficult due to high rate of changes
[08:16] <andrejz> i can see that a lot of strings we have changed in launchpad haven't been overwritten
[08:30] <henninge> artnay: reading
[08:57] <henninge> artnay: sorry, distracted
[08:57] <henninge> artnay: this is bug 740225, I am sorry.
[08:57] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 740225 in launchpad "The differences between New and Translated for upstreams was removed (affects: 2) (heat: 27)" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740225
[08:58] <artnay> henninge: I don't know if that's the case... and even if it is, it's plain wrong
[08:58] <henninge> artnay: what do you mean
[08:58] <artnay> Rosetta states that differences between rosetta and upstream will be held in Rosetta
[08:59] <artnay> but, umh, which one is upstream? chrome or chromium?
[08:59] <henninge> I don't understand
[08:59] <artnay> henninge: this way we can't fix the errors made by Google's translators
[08:59] <artnay> sure we can file bugs against chromium issues but they don't tend to get fixed
[09:00] <henninge> artnay: that will only work between Ubuntu packages and upstream projects which are hosted in Launchpad.
[09:00] <artnay> for example in Chrome it says my connection to LP is secured by 128 byte encryption
[09:00] <artnay> so I fixed it in chromium to be 128 bits
[09:00] <artnay> and during the last import the fix got overwritten
[09:01] <henninge> artnay: not between projects hosted in Launchpad and upstream projects hosted elsewhere.
[09:01] <henninge> artnay: yes, that is bug 740225
[09:01] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 740225 in launchpad "The differences between New and Translated for upstreams was removed (affects: 2) (heat: 27)" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740225
[09:02] <artnay> sorry to hear that. it basically makes fixing a pita/impossible
[09:02] <artnay> unless the Google translators review the changes and fix it in Chrome
[09:02] <henninge> artnay: yup, I am sorry but that is correct.
[09:04] <henninge> artnay: the only way to get that would be to do the translations in Ubuntu:
[09:04] <henninge> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/chromium-browser
[09:05] <henninge> why is there an extra "translations" series on chromium-browser???
[09:07] <artnay> henninge: fta2 said it shouldn't be that way
[09:07] <henninge> what way?
[09:07] <henninge> the series or doing it in Ubuntu?
[09:09] <henninge> artnay: ^
[09:09] <artnay> henninge: series
[09:12] <artnay> I'll file a bug later today about this
[09:12] <artnay> if there are chromium translators here who are also affected by this, it would be great if you could confirm
[09:14] <henninge> artnay: I agree about the series. Is that what you want to file a bug about?
[09:16] <artnay> henninge: basically the bug would be "in chromium, don't overwrite changes made in LP when doing upstream import"
[09:17] <artnay> it makes fixing impossible without Google's help
[09:18] <artnay> don't get me wrong, I'd like to see those fixes in Chrome as well
[09:19] <henninge> artnay: I understand taht
[09:19] <henninge> that
[09:21] <henninge> artnay: in the bug you should make clear that you are aware of bug 740225 and that you seek a different solution (i.e. translating on the source package although chromium-browser is not in main)
[09:21] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 740225 in launchpad "The differences between New and Translated for upstreams was removed (affects: 2) (heat: 27)" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/740225
[09:21] <artnay> henninge: I'll try to be precise with my bug report (will include screenshots, that bug # etc.)
[09:22] <henninge> artnay: I don't think screenshots are necessary.
[09:22] <artnay> thanks for looking up at that bug (again, you already did it before ;-))
[09:22] <henninge> artnay: you don't need to explain much about what is going on because that bug already does that.
[09:22] <artnay> henninge: with screenshots I'm able to show a) original translator (fta) and time b) string c) my fix (name and date)
[09:23] <henninge> artnay: yes, but we are already aware that strings get overwritten. You do not need to proof that.
[09:23] <henninge> artnay: you can kick off the finding of a different solution, though.
[09:24] <artnay> henninge: ok, no screenshots. fta2 was asking for those wrongly translated strings
[09:24] <artnay> with dates one could track back to upstream imports
[09:24] <henninge> artnay: that would include keeping the upstream translation in the project and the LP translations in the source package.
[09:25] <henninge> artnay: that is something the Ubuntu people like dpm will have to comment on.
[09:25] <henninge> because chromium-browser is not in main.
[09:26] <henninge> artnay: oh, I forgot
[09:26] <henninge> artnay: fta has his machinery outside of LP doing stuff.
[09:26] <dpm> artnay, henninge, there will be no translatable ubuntu source package for chromium, as long as it remains in universe
[09:26] <dpm> fta explicitly created all his machinery to overcome that issue
[09:27] <henninge> dpm: yes, I just rememberd
[09:27] <artnay> I've seen fta's flow charts, gee... :-)
[09:27] <artnay> no wonder if stuff like this happens
[09:27] <henninge> artnay: ok but then this is not a new bug for LP to report
[09:29] <artnay> henninge: andrejz said their fixes aren't being overwritten so something is quite fishy here
[09:29] <artnay> I'm seeing all my fixes (being the only active chromium translator) being overwritten
[09:29] <artnay> in Finnish, of course... *g*
[09:30] <andrejz> Well, i checked for a couple of strings which we have changed and those weren't overwritten
[09:31] <andrejz> it's also possible those strings have been accepted in upstream chromium and are not intact
[09:31] <andrejz> now*
[09:31] <artnay> andrejz: when were those strings originally fixed?
[09:31] <andrejz> sometime in december 2010
[09:32] <artnay> andrejz: ok, I have to check if any fixes from 2010 are still as-is. all fixes from 2011 have been overwritten.
[09:33] <andrejz> new launchpad rollout was around January 20th
[09:33] <artnay> yep
[09:33] <andrejz> so maybe that's when strings started to be overwritten
[09:34] <artnay> andrejz: well #740225 was probably released in 2011
[09:34] <artnay> it saddens me to see regressions like this in both LP and transifex
[09:36] <andrejz> me too. it takes a lot of work to fix this and can seriously demotivate contributors
[10:00] <henninge> artnay, andrejz: Can either of you point me to fta's blog where he posted his flow chart?
[10:01] <andrejz> http://ftagada.wordpress.com/2011/02/10/chromium-translations-explained-part-2b/
[10:01] <andrejz> http://ftagada.wordpress.com/2011/01/23/chromium-translations-explained-part-2/
[10:01] <andrejz> http://ftagada.wordpress.com/2011/01/19/chromium-release-management-explained/
[10:02] <andrejz> http://ftagada.wordpress.com/2011/01/08/chromium-translations-explained-part-1/
[10:06] <henninge> andrejz: thanks
[10:07] <artnay> In Basque, some time ago I made a typo and translated the word .Offer. (in .generated resources.) with the word .Eskaiki.. It should be .Eskaini.. Now, each time a correct the mistake in Launchpad (4 times by now), the next day I got the mistaken word again in Launchpad.
[10:08] <artnay> It.s a restriction i had to add because Launchpad now overwrites the LP contributed strings when there is an upstream update, even unrelated, in the template, which happens almost every day in Chromium.
[10:08] <artnay> As I said, if the problem is ever solved in Launchpad, I should be able to remove this restriction.
[10:09] <artnay> it seems that LP/something now thinks upstream strings as "updates" to those strings which have been corrected in LP
[10:09] <artnay> that's a major drawback
[10:11] <artnay> basically makes correcting impossible unless Google's translator(s) fix their own oopsies
[10:12] <artnay> we can file those translations oopsies at chromium issues but as has been said, they don't tend to fix their own oopsies (or if they do, it takes a lot of time)
[10:12] <artnay> More seriously, I had to make some choices. The most important one is that for the .updated in Launchpad. strings, I always prefer those over the upstream translations. The drawback is that it is no longer possible to return to an upstream translation once it diverged. I consider it a small price to pay at the moment, but maybe it will have to be revisited one day.
[10:30] <artnay> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1528 this is one of the best examples I could find. totally wrong translation, reported 2,5 years ago, not fixed in Chrome, fixed in Chromium, gets overwritten.
[10:32] <artnay> I'll file a bug at Chromium issues, something like "co-operate with Chromium translators, review their changes and commit into Chrome where appropriate"
[12:54] <andrejz> hello! i am wondering if anyone is experincing a problem in indicator date-time
[12:54] <andrejz> "Add event ..." appears untranslated
[12:54] <andrejz> does any other team experience this
[12:54] <andrejz> ?
[14:17] <dpm> andrejz, I've noticed that too, but I thought it'd be because translations have not been shipped yet.
[14:17] <dpm> If that is not the case, would you mind filing a bug?
[14:17] <andrejz> well that was my question actually :) do i need to fill a bug or will it resolve by it self (when translations ship)?
[14:18] <dpm> andrejz, is the string translatable in LP?
[14:18] <dpm> if it is, you can test this:
[14:18] <dpm> 1. Export the translation as mo file from LP
[14:19] <dpm> 2. Rename the exported mo file to indicator-datetime.mo if necessary
[14:20] <dpm> 3. sudo cp indicator-datetime.mo /usr/share/locale-langpack/sl/LC_MESSAGES
[14:20] <dpm> 4. Log out of the session
[14:20] <dpm> 5. Log back in again and check if "Add event..." is now translated
[14:21] <dpm> I need to step out for a while, but I'll check the log when I come back if there is anything else
[14:21] <dpm> Oh, and 6. If it is not translated, please consider filing a bug
[14:22] <dpm> :-)
[14:46] <andrejz> @dpm: it works, so it's not a bug
[15:09] <dpm> andrejz, great, thanks for testing :)
[15:10] <andrejz> glad to help
[19:13] <artnay> do you have "Launcher & Menus" untranslated?
[19:13] <artnay> is it even marked for translations?
[19:43] <artnay> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/757884
[19:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 757884 in ubuntu-translations "No translation template for "Launcher & Menus" (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[19:43] <artnay> to which package does it belong?