[02:27] <j1mc> hallo. anyone around?
[02:32] <shaunm> hi j1mc
[02:41] <j1mc> hi shaunm
[02:42] <j1mc> shaunm: i'm working ubuntu docs... from the gnome help, i really like the user and system settings layout
[02:42] <j1mc> what do you think about it?
[02:49] <shaunm> the grid layout on prefs.page?
[02:49] <shaunm> I'm really liking that layout more and more for those kinds of guides
[02:50]  * shaunm does a bzr merge, hopes that's the right command
[02:54] <j1mc> shaunm: here's a video: http://blip.tv/file/5007376
[02:57] <j1mc> shaunm: try this: http://blip.tv/file/get/J1mc-Ubuntu1104HelpDraft735.ogv
[02:58] <shaunm> this is nice
[03:00] <j1mc> i was re-working the networking help to be like that, but it's a lot of work.
[03:00] <j1mc> and i wanted to get feedback before i did it.
[03:00] <j1mc> any idea how stuff like "orca" handles that?
[03:04] <shaunm> that's a good question
[03:05] <shaunm> I could see that pile of links as being meaningless when read by a screen reader
[03:05] <j1mc> yeah.
[03:05] <shaunm> I might need to put in some tagging to make navigation easier
[03:06] <j1mc> is the approach you've been talking about on the gnome list any better in that regard?
[03:06] <shaunm> maybe piggyback on title navigation. not sure. I'd have to have a chat with joanie
[03:06] <shaunm> my patches to gnome-doc-list were basically doing to hardware.page what you already see on prefs.page
[03:22] <j1mc> hi mimico
[03:24] <mimico> j1mc, hi
[16:29] <shaunm> j1mc: can you give me some bzr help?
[16:30] <shaunm> I did a 'bzr merge', assuming that would just get me all your changes from the server
[16:30] <shaunm> but the changes were applied, but not as commits
[16:40] <tsimpson> shaunm: you use "bzr pull" to pull down the changes, "bzr merge" is for merging your working tree with another, which you can then commit
[16:49] <shaunm> tsimpson: ah, thanks. so how do I throw away all these uncommitted changes?
[16:49] <tsimpson> you should be able to do "bzr revert" to get back to the previous state
[16:50] <shaunm> excellent, thanks
[17:10] <shaunm> j1mc: http://people.gnome.org/~shaunm/ubuntu/index.html
[17:13] <shaunm> I realize the mouseovers are messed up
[17:14] <shaunm> actually...
[17:15] <shaunm> fixed now
[17:21] <j1mc> shaunm: thanks.  is it possible to have the left-margin aligned a bit more consistently? The Ubuntu logo and text shows as about two and a half inches more to the left than the mouseover-images and the sections.
[17:21] <j1mc> that is how it is on my screen, anyway
[17:23] <j1mc> brb
[18:09] <shaunm> j1mc: it's 144 pixels, actually. just trying to follow the style guide you sent me, e.g. page 10
[18:11] <j1mc> hm, weird.
[18:11] <j1mc> i'm off to lunch w/ a friend, but will check back later.
[20:41] <mdke> j1mc: heya, how's it going?
[20:41] <mdke> exceptional work you and jbicha are doing
[20:41] <j1mc> mdke: thanks. jbicha has been a big help
[20:42] <mdke> j1mc: my upload of this morning doesn't appear to have been accepted so I don't know whether we will have something in for beta2.
[20:42] <jbicha> thanks, I've just had some extra time and happy to have found an important area to contribute in
[20:42] <j1mc> makes sense.
[20:43] <mdke> j1mc: but I'd like to upload something asap anyway to fix (a) the screenshot size issue, and (b) if possible any stub pages linked in the index (e.g. addremove)
[20:43] <mdke> j1mc: if it doesn't get accepted for beta2, so be it
[20:43] <j1mc> exactly
[20:43] <j1mc> i'm also doing some work to get some of the old ubuntu help integrated.
[20:44] <mdke> ooh, I see a lot of deleted screenshots, cool
[20:44] <j1mc> for example, the current help doesn't have any info on add-remove-programs
[20:44] <j1mc> i'm doing that work in a separate branch, though
[20:44] <mdke> are you still using natty-unity as the main branch?
[20:44] <mdke> for me it duplicates the natty branch
[20:46] <j1mc> yes, i have been.  we can move it to the natty branch, though
[20:46] <j1mc> i created a separate working branch for some of the refactoring.
[20:46] <mdke> Let's move over to natty, I've been synching them anyway
[20:47] <j1mc> ok
[20:47] <mdke> I've updated the Makefile for the image deletions
[20:47] <j1mc> if you go to the "System Settings" section... I've been working to combine the two networking sections into one
[20:47] <j1mc> mdke: great.
[20:48] <j1mc> ... so the networking would be just one section with subsections like the "System Settings" link off of the main page.
[20:48] <mdke> sounds fine
[20:48] <j1mc> with different subsections for wireless, wired, mobile, troubleshooting, web browsing, email, etc.
[20:49] <mdke> try to stick as close as reasonable to upstream, in case we do this for the next release as well - it will be easiest to merge in upstream changes and improvements
[20:49] <j1mc> so... we should just be pushing to the regular natty branch? not natty-unity?
[20:49] <mdke> the greater the diff, the more difficult to resolve a conflict when merging
[20:49] <mdke> j1mc: right. I've synched it again just now
[20:50] <j1mc> i will try to actually push that change to upstream. i've talked about it with shaun
[20:50] <mdke> neat
[20:50] <j1mc> : )
[20:50] <j1mc> he has been so helpful
[20:50] <mdke> it's easy to do a diff on the upstream branch as well which is lp:gnome-user-docs/master
[20:50] <mdke> you have all been doing great work with Gnome docs and yelp - it looks amazing
[20:51] <j1mc> i hope we can get the web portion looking nice.
[20:51] <mdke> ok, so when should I plan to do the next upload? Should I do one right away or wait for further changes?
[20:52] <j1mc> let's review and merge jbicha's changes.  :)  then do another upload.
[20:53] <j1mc> i suppose timing isn't that important now, if we aren't going to make beta 2
[20:53] <mdke> ok. I'll be around for a couple of hours or I can do it before work tomorrow morning
[20:53] <j1mc> either way is ok
[20:53] <j1mc> thanks, mdke
[20:53] <mdke> j1mc: I think that's true. We're writing off translations anyway as they will have no chance this cycle
[20:53] <mdke> so timing doesn't matter too much
[20:54] <j1mc> :/  i'm glad david has been ok with it.  we'll just have to be good about post-release updates.
[20:54] <mdke> j1mc: what do you think about using ubuntu-docs as a "If you are using the Classic Gnome desktop" help centre
[20:54] <j1mc> i think that's a good idea
[20:54] <j1mc> would you mind sorting out that packaging?
[20:55] <mdke> ok, so we could do a short index at something like "/usr/share/gnome/help/gnome-classic-index/C/gnome-classic-index.xml" in docbook which lists the other documents
[20:55] <mdke> add that to the package and upload it in otherwise identical form to maverick
[20:56] <mdke> you could then refer to the link ghelp:gnome-classic-index somewhere in gnome-user-docs to show it to people
[20:56] <j1mc> mdke: yeah, i think so.  of course, if there have been updates to it... those should be included.  i think the entities were changed to reflect natty
[20:56] <mdke> sure
[20:56] <mdke> I'll do ubuntu-docs then
[20:56] <j1mc> yes... that would be no problem.  cool!
[20:58] <jbicha> so how do I switch my parent branch from natty-unity to natty?
[20:59] <j1mc> jbicha: good question
[20:59] <mdke> jbicha: you don't need to
[20:59] <mdke> if you are working on a branch, you can continue to push to that and we can just merge from it when pulling in your changes
[21:00] <mdke> then merge from natty into your branch whenever there are changes to natty
[21:00] <jbicha> but I generally just do bzr pull to get the latest stuff
[21:01] <mdke> for that you would need to get the natty branch onto your system and work from that
[21:01] <j1mc> jbicha: i think bzr pull lp:~ [new path] would work
[21:01] <mdke> that's sort of the conventional non-distributed vcs approach
[21:01] <mdke> (as I understand it, I'm not a bzr expert)
[21:01] <jbicha> ah, there we go, bzr pull --remember switches it
[21:16] <j1mc> i'll be back later, all.