[00:00] <KINGOFSWORDS> add and copy paste them?
[00:00] <popey> copy and paste what?
[00:01] <popey> they're tickboxes
[00:01] <KINGOFSWORDS> the urls
[00:01] <popey> you just tick "main, restricted, universe, multiverse"
[00:01] <KINGOFSWORDS> they arent there?
[00:02] <popey> what aren't where?
[00:03] <dutchie> !screenshot
[00:03] <directhex> http://cybernetnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/ubuntu-software-sources-proprietary-drivers.jpg
[00:03] <dutchie> ^^ one of those might be handy
[00:03] <dutchie> ooh, brown
[00:03] <dutchie> i remember that
[00:04] <dutchie> and the buttons are on the wrong side :)
[00:04] <directhex> http://lh6.ggpht.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/TLHkB_oNhPI/AAAAAAAACH4/MQ8IYpyZio0/software-sources.png ?
[00:04] <popey> http://imagebin.org/147694
[00:04] <popey> ^^ mine
[00:05] <KINGOFSWORDS> theres 2 canonical ones thats arent ticked and ppa launchpad 7 machines (main) which is
[00:05] <popey> KINGOFSWORDS: in which tab?
[00:05] <directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, you're not on the "ubuntu software" tab.
[00:05] <popey> you're in the "Other software" tab?
[00:10] <craiganicol> Does ekiga work through empathy? I'm getting network errors when I try to connect :-(
[00:12] <directhex> craiganicol, isn't ekiga a SIP client?
[00:13] <craiganicol> Yeah.
[00:13] <craiganicol> Got an ekiga.net account
[00:13] <directhex> and you're trying to add a SIP account to empathy?
[00:13] <craiganicol> directhex, that's right
[00:13] <popey> didnt know empathy did SIP
[00:13] <directhex> is telepathy-sofiasip installed?
[00:13] <directhex> popey, 2 different plugins!
[00:14] <popey> golly
[00:14] <craiganicol> I've got a SIP account option
[00:14] <craiganicol> So I'm using that
[00:14] <craiganicol> Dunno if it's sofia or not
[00:15] <directhex> craiganicol, try installing telepathy-sofiasip - i think the other option is provided by telepathy-haze (pidgin compatibility)
[00:16] <craiganicol> Well, apt-get is installing sofia, so I guess I wasn't using that...
[00:17] <craiganicol> OK, let's try restarting empathy...
[00:19] <craiganicol> Hmm... still just the one SIP option, and still network errors :-(
[00:21] <directhex> officially it works :/
[00:22] <directhex> oh. it doesn't work with NAT, apparently.
[00:23] <directhex> try setting stun.ekiga.net as a STUN server in advanced settings
[00:24] <craiganicol> Ah, might be an ekiga problem. I've installed the official client and I'm getting a registration failed error with the same credentials.
[00:24] <craiganicol> Sounds like it isn't an empathy problem.
[00:26] <craiganicol> Although I'm slightly concerned that a password change on the Ekiga website sends out the password in plain text.
[00:26] <craiganicol> Any other SIP providers out there?
[00:27] <directhex> ... i use the company server, so no idea
[00:27] <popey> i use sipgate.co.uk
[00:28] <hamitron> nn all, eyes hurting with fake light so gonna read a real book o/
[00:33] <craiganicol> cheers popey, I'll check them out
[00:33] <craiganicol> Thanks for your help all. Night night
[00:34] <craiganicol> Just as a test, I tried with sip2sip and that logged in instantly
[06:58] <HazRPG> \o
[07:16] <knightwise> morning everyone
[07:16] <shauno> mornin
[07:30] <knightwise> how are you doing today
[07:39] <shauno> not even 8am and I'm reaching my crazy quota all ready :(
[07:39] <shauno> "you russia, no? er, no, just english sorry.  *click*".  4 times already.
[07:47] <knightwise> lol :)
[07:47] <knightwise> on irc or what ,
[07:47] <popey> morning slackers
[07:47] <knightwise> hey popey !
[07:47] <knightwise> good of you to join us
[07:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Afternoon popey what kept you ;-)
[07:47] <knightwise> we've been waiting for you for about an hour
[07:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> All set for Friday evening then?
[07:48] <knightwise> having "the  mornign off on irc" are we ?
[07:49] <popey> oh yus!
[07:49] <popey> although given my volvo gave up the ghost and is costing me 450 quid to fix I may not be drinking/eating as much as I might!
[07:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - we are all in car pain then?
[07:50] <popey> oh you too?
[07:50] <knightwise> popey "gave up the ghost" is kind of a dutch expression i thought
[07:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> My V70 needs a service shortly (I suspect that it might cost more than the car is worth)
[07:50] <popey> heh
[07:50] <popey> how old is your v70?
[07:51] <popey> mine's a 51
[07:51] <popey> knightwise: it is?
[07:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's "V" reg. 2.4Turbo
[07:51] <popey> oooo
[07:51] <popey> retro
[07:51] <popey> i love mine
[07:51] <shauno> 'gave up the ghost' is biblical, so will show up in a lot of western languages
[07:51] <popey> bit beaten up now though :)
[07:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Quick but drinks petrol and my wife uses to take out her frustrations.
[07:51] <popey> the intercooler went, which is ~450 quid to fix
[07:51] <popey> haha
[07:51] <popey> I have the diesel
[07:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> Bumpers knackered, wings scratched, and we are recently missing one gatepost
[07:52] <popey> :D
[07:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> I was looking at lease deals last night. One can get a reasonable car for less than £200/m. If this service is much over £1500 I will dump the car.
[07:53] <ging> who would have thought removing 1 little package could do so much harm to ubuntu
[07:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> The dashboard reminds me somewhat of Blackpool at Christmas :-D
[07:56] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:57] <ging> i uninstalled dbus because it was not working and it uninstalled half of the ubuntu packages with it
[08:04] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i am considering pcp
[08:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Isn't that "Angel Dust" popey?
[08:05] <popey> and renewing every 2 years or so, so never paying the balloon
[08:05] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: on advice of council, i decline to answer
[08:05] <popey> ging: surely it told you it was going to remove everything?
[08:05] <popey> ging: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
[08:06] <popey> to get it back to how it should be
[08:06] <popey> the caret is important
[08:07] <MooDoo> huh?
[08:07] <MooDoo> :D
[08:08] <popey> huh?
[08:08] <MooDoo> popey: just seen a few lines appear wondered if it was you answering questions now or they have just been resent!
[08:09] <popey> 07:57:22 < ging> i uninstalled dbus because it was not working and it uninstalled half of the ubuntu packages with it
[08:09] <popey> answering that
[08:09] <MooDoo> ah
[08:09]  * MooDoo poddles off for coffee
[08:09]  * popey makes poached eggs for brekkie
[08:09] <MooDoo> popey: shush [seeing as i'm at work already]
[08:10] <popey> :)
[08:18] <daubers> Morning
[08:24] <MooDoo> morning daubers
[08:27]  * daubers heads off to work with a mission to chat up some suppliers to borrow some kit...
[08:28]  * knightwise is fighting with multiboot
[08:34]  * MartijnVdS multiboots knightwise ;)
[08:34] <knightwise> multisystem
[08:49] <popey> blimey, 60 tickets for oggcamp reserved already
[08:49] <MooDoo> oggcamp?
[08:50] <MooDoo> didn't know that was announced.....doh!
[08:50] <MooDoo> ooooo there is the webpage
[08:50] <popey> http://oggcamp.org/
[08:50] <MooDoo> yeah just found it
[08:51] <popey> http://ThisURLIsUsefulIfYouWantToKnowWhereAndWhenOggCampWillBeThisYear.com
[08:51] <popey> might be a preferable URL :D
[08:51] <BigRedS> Gah. Why wont thunderbird reply sensibly?
[08:52] <BigRedS> is there a way to make Thunderbird do reply-to-list by default (i.e. on ctrl-r)? I can't find one if there is
[08:52] <MooDoo> popey: looks awesome :D
[08:52] <popey> isnt it ctrl+l?
[08:54] <BigRedS> ctrl+l is reply to list, yeah, but I want ctrl+r to Do The Right Thing :)
[08:55] <popey> heh
[08:55] <shauno> ctrl+r doesn't use the reply-to header?
[08:56] <Laney> some people don't set that
[08:56] <Laney> and then complain when you don't respect the setting they never asked for
[08:56]  * TheOpenSourcerer can walk to OggCamp this year :-)
[08:57] <popey> heh
[08:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> And will be checking out the venue this Friday evening funnily enough.
[08:58]  * popey tickles aquarius with http://ComeToOggCamp11On13thAnd14thOfAugust2011AtFarnhamMaltingsSurrey.com
[08:59] <MartijnVdS> popey: long domain names-r-us?
[08:59] <popey> longest domain names :)
[08:59] <MartijnVdS> popey: put an URL lengthener on there (like hugeurl)
[08:59] <popey> haha
[08:59] <popey> funny you should mention that...
[09:00] <popey> http://ShorteningURLsIsSoLastYearClickMeToFindOutWhereAndWhenOggCampIs.com
[09:00] <BigRedS> I approve of this :)
[09:01] <popey> :)
[09:02]  * MooDoo 's wife might be too pregnant for me to attend
[09:04] <AlanBell> bring her along
[09:04] <AlanBell> and name it "Ogg"
[09:04] <MooDoo> AlanBell: lol 8.5months, i don't think so :D
[09:05]  * MooDoo ponders Ogg Mellors.....
[09:05] <popey> That sounds great!
[09:05] <AlanBell> I have a cousin Owen who is known as Ogg
[09:05] <popey> there is an Og in the FLOSS community
[09:05] <popey> works on Foresight Linux iirc
[09:05] <MooDoo> og Marciel ;)
[09:05] <popey> thassim
[09:10] <ging> popey: yeah it told me it was going to remove everything, i just thought it was exagerating
[09:11] <knightwise> i have an interesting quest
[09:12] <knightwise> i love the whole full circle magazine and would love to download their latest issue and email it to my tablet automatically
[09:12] <knightwise> should not be that hard to do .. should it ?
[09:15] <dwatkins> It should indeed not be hard to do, knightwise. I imagine it's quite easy, but I suggest reading the wget manpage funny and being certain you won't download a truckload of other data first.
[09:15] <knightwise> true dwatkins
[09:15] <dwatkins> Also, you may want to let them know you're going to do this, as if there's a really big amount of data it will cost them for hosting, knightwise.
[09:16] <dwatkins> Perhaps there's a tar of each edition available from them already.
[09:16] <dwatkins> are you referring to the PDFs?
[09:16] <knightwise> yep
[09:17] <Myrtti> oh my
[09:17] <Myrtti> oggcamp is on my birthday
[09:17] <popey> \o/
[09:17] <AlanBell> there will be cake
[09:18] <popey> speaking of cake
[09:19] <popey> http://imgur.com/oLJeu
[09:19] <popey> Sophie made some cake :)
[09:19] <dwatkins> woot, popey
[09:21] <popey> http://imgur.com/bAoSH
[09:21] <popey> Sam with a bucket of milk in bed :)
[09:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm must be school holidays - Wife is screaming at the kids already :-)
[09:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> I must go and take my chillies to the Greenhouse.
[09:24] <Myrtti> wow
[09:24] <Myrtti> reading the interview of a Nokia marketing division person who's leaving the company
[09:25] <Myrtti> Nokia has had a 30% claim on the toilet paper market of UK at one point
[09:31] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[09:43] <bigcalm> I like the Eventbrite tickets, but it does seem a bit of a waste of paper
[09:44] <bigcalm> Myrtti: why the enhanced breathing action?
[09:46] <Myrtti> I can't decide between having a nap or trying to do something marginally useful
[09:47] <shauno> you mean naps aren't useful?
[09:48] <bigcalm> Myrtti: nap, you'll get more done afterwards :)
[09:50] <shauno> http://shop.canonical.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=natty&op=Search   \o/
[09:50] <bigcalm> Looks ok
[09:50] <bigcalm> Bet it gets hot in the sun though
[09:52] <s-fox> Hello.
[10:04] <davmor2> morning all
[10:04] <MooDoo> davmor2: morning me ole mucker
[10:04] <davmor2> czajkowski: up and about I see does that mean you made a miraculous recovery?
[10:04] <davmor2> MooDoo: Me owld china
[10:05] <Myrtti> I wish I knew if I can spend my birthday in UK or not
[10:06] <davmor2> Myrtti: why would you not be able too?
[10:06] <Myrtti> davmor2: mum
[10:07] <bigcalm> davmor2: Myrtti's birthday is an intangable random number
[10:07]  * davmor2 reaches over and flicks on absolute 80's let get this partee started
[10:08] <bigcalm> \o/
[10:08] <Myrtti> oh well, plenty of time left before August to figure out
[10:08] <czajkowski> davmor2: no signed off for another week bulging disc
[10:08] <davmor2> Myrtti: so have you birthday there and then celebrate over here
[10:08] <czajkowski> sciatica  as well
[10:08] <Myrtti> davmor2: oggcamp 11 :-/
[10:09] <Myrtti> "can you please reschedule oggcamp, it's on me birthday and I want to spend it with Mum"
[10:09] <Myrtti> no?
[10:09] <andylockran> hey guys
[10:09] <Myrtti> I knew you would spoil the fun
[10:09] <andylockran> anyone got experience with the rxtx driver?
[10:09] <davmor2> czajkowski: you know what you need don't you,  one of those bed things that holds you upside down and release all the tension on your spine :)
[10:09]  * popey changes oggcamp date just for Myrtti 
[10:09] <andylockran> or java in general? http://dpaste.com/531176/
[10:10] <Myrtti> popey: who knows, perhaps it's not an... issue in August anymore...
[10:10] <davmor2> Myrtti: :(
[10:10] <popey> :S
[10:10] <Myrtti> I'll get me coat
[10:11]  * czajkowski hugs Myrtti 
[10:11] <smittix> Morning
[10:11] <davmor2> Myrtti: what you need is some of ntfsclone,  that's it you need a Myrtticlone  then you can be at both
[10:16] <MooDoo> clone Myrtti = fail     sudo clone Myrtti = success :)
[10:19] <czajkowski> so who's going to oggcamp :D
[10:19] <czajkowski> tons of notice!
[10:20] <issyl0> czajkowski: o\
[10:20] <issyl0> czajkowski: o/ even
[10:21] <MooDoo> czajkowski: i'm not i'm afraid
[10:21] <czajkowski> MooDoo: we are destined never to meet
[10:21] <davmor2> czajkowski: I have no idea at this early point.
[10:22] <MooDoo> czajkowski: oh we will, but the other will be 8.5 months pregnant, and i don't want to leave her for two days.
[10:22] <kaushal> hi
[10:22] <czajkowski> MooDoo: true
[10:22] <MooDoo> czajkowski: i'll get you that pint soon enough
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: o\ == facepalm? or "Y U NO"-guy?
[10:22] <kaushal> i have searched /proc/acpi/battery/
[10:22] <davmor2> czajkowski: he doesn't want to meet you you might provide him with all those beat downs you promised him ;)
[10:22] <MooDoo> davmor2: one can hope :D
[10:22] <czajkowski> davmor2: hey he owes me beer for all the rugby slagging!
[10:22] <kaushal> is there a way to know if its a 9 cell or a 6 Cell or a 4 Cell battery
[10:22]  * MooDoo hangs his head in shame
[10:23] <issyl0> MartijnVdS: A typo.
[10:23] <kaushal> without visiting the Manufacturers website
[10:23] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: Nah, it was on purpose. People don't admit typos :)
[10:23] <issyl0> MartijnVdS: Am I not a person?  ;-)
[10:24] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: OK.. _most_ people
[10:24] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: :)
[10:27] <davmor2> kaushal: you can try the battery properties no promises as it depends on the manufacturer as to exactly what info you get
[10:28] <davmor2> kaushal: click on the battery icon and click on properties
[10:28] <issyl0> MartijnVdS: Thaaaat's better.
[10:30]  * MartijnVdS writes some HTML
[10:30] <MartijnVdS> *shudder*
[10:32] <diplo> morning all
[10:32] <MooDoo> morning diplo
[10:33] <davmor2> morning diplo
[10:35] <kaushal> davmor2: thanks
[10:35] <kaushal> but doesnot give that info
[10:41] <davmor2> kaushal: website or google then but at least you have the model info now :)
[11:03] <smittix> Does anyone have a natty machine near them?
[11:03] <davmor2> smittix: yes thanks
[11:04] <smittix> davmor2: Could you check something for me?
[11:04] <davmor2> smittix: go on
[11:04] <smittix> In system settings does the bluetooth icon show properly?
[11:05] <davmor2> nope
[11:05] <smittix> Ok, thanks for that
[11:05] <davmor2> it's showing the no icon symbol
[11:05] <smittix> Thought so.
[11:12] <davmor2> smittix: I'm taking it your system is set up on en_GB correct?
[11:12] <smittix> Yeah
[11:12] <davmor2> thanks
[11:13] <smittix> Same problem with the Universal Access Preference Icon on the logon screen
[11:15] <shauno> popey: re screencasting, I just use quicktime & vbox.  easy way to maintain a pristine environment & easy switch distos
[11:15] <shauno> not an ideal solution, but short-term cheaper than buying capture hardware
[11:17] <smittix> What's the best way to submit a bug for missing icons?
[11:18] <bigcalm> czajkowski: o/
[11:19] <davmor2> smittix: it looks like it might be that the icon string is translatable so report against the application for now
[11:19] <smittix> davmor2: Ok
[11:28] <smittix> How long does it normally take for a bug report to be updated?
[11:29] <davmor2> smittix: depends how slow LP is that day
[11:30] <smittix> Ahh ok I submitted this on the 7th
[11:30] <smittix> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/753405
[11:55] <safiyyah> hi guys need help with an installation, anyone free?
[11:56] <dogmatic69> safiyyah: just ask your question :)
[11:58] <safiyyah> trying to install libre office. I added the PPA but when I clicked on it, it had unresolved dependancies, so I uninstalled openoffice, refreshed and despite the ppa being there apt-get does not recognise libreoffice, checked on synaptic and well, it doesn't find anthing either
[11:58] <dogmatic69> has that even had any changes from oo?
[11:58] <safiyyah> yep
[12:00] <safiyyah> it will be the default for natty as well
[12:00] <safiyyah> but anyway, can anyone help me understand what has happened?
[12:00] <dogmatic69> did you do apt-get update
[12:02] <safiyyah> yep
[12:03] <dogmatic69> out of ideas then :)
[12:03] <dogmatic69> wait for one of the pro's
[12:03] <safiyyah> damn! LOL
[12:03] <safiyyah> okay i will try a reboot
[12:07] <safiyyah> popey, help me!!!!!!!
[12:07] <safiyyah> AlanBell   ??
[12:09] <AlanBell> hmm?
[12:10] <AlanBell> I have not tried the libre office ppa
[12:10] <AlanBell> I have tried libre office in Natty though, works fine
[12:10] <safiyyah> you are already running natty?
[12:10] <AlanBell> in a VM
[12:10] <AlanBell> not got round to putting it on hardware yet
[12:11] <AlanBell> might upgrade the kids computer soon though
[12:11] <safiyyah> any ideas on the broken ppa? I googled and all solutions posted do not work
[12:11] <safiyyah> so which one are you running?
[12:11] <danfish> afternoon :)
[12:11] <safiyyah> lol
[12:11] <AlanBell> got any error messages?
[12:11] <safiyyah> yes
[12:11] <danfish> safiyyah: which ppa you using exactly?
[12:12] <safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/593074/
[12:12] <safiyyah> i reran the commands so you guys can see the output there
[12:14] <safiyyah> the exact ppa on synaptic is http://ppa.launchpad.net/libreoffice/ppa/ubuntu I am on Lucid
[12:14] <danfish> what's the output of apt-cache search libreoffice ?
[12:16] <safiyyah> safiyyah@safiyyah-desktop:~$ sudo apt-cache search libreoffice
[12:16] <safiyyah> ttf-opensymbol - OpenSymbol TrueType font
[12:16] <safiyyah> safiyyah@safiyyah-desktop:~$
[12:16] <safiyyah> just the ttf
[12:16] <kvarley> Is there a list of Ubuntu compatible TV Cards anywhere?
[12:16] <kvarley> Or any recommended brands?
[12:17] <BigRedS> I suspect MythTV related things would be a good place to check
[12:17] <danfish> safiyyah: hmm. That's odd. There should be more than that
[12:17] <bigcalm> kvarley: check the mythtv project
[12:17] <BigRedS> it wont be ubuntu specific support, just stuff the kernel supports
[12:17] <kvarley> bigcalm: Thanks
[12:17] <kvarley> BigRedS Thanks also
[12:17] <bigcalm> For once, not a miss-tabbing ;)
[12:17] <danfish> kvarley: or http://www.linuxtv.org/
[12:18] <safiyyah> danfish,  thats why I can't understand what's happened
[12:18] <danfish> safiyyah: when you did sudo apt-get update, any errors?
[12:18] <safiyyah> nope
[12:18] <safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/593074/
[12:19] <davmor2> kvarley: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsMultimedia try this
[12:19] <kvarley> davmor2: Thanks, just what I'm looking for I think
[12:20] <danfish> safiyyah: oh yeah..my bad
[12:22] <safiyyah> danfish would a reboot resolve this? I am in the middle of a windows installation on VB OSE so I will wait for it to complete first
[12:23] <danfish> safiyyah: maybe...worth a try I suppose. I've got a lucid machine - I'll see if it's reproducible
[12:23] <safiyyah> okay
[12:24] <safiyyah> will call you when I reboot
[12:24] <danfish> ok
[12:32] <safiyyah> windows taking forever
[12:32] <safiyyah> is anyone running microsoft office on playonlinux?
[12:33] <kvarley> safiyyah: LibreOffice is a perfect substitute. However, you need to use winetricks for office to work I think
[12:33] <danfish> safiyyah: on this lucid install, doing sudo apt-get dist-upgrade after apt-get update, the sudo apt-get install libreoffice worked OK.
[12:35] <safiyyah> okay trying that now
[12:36] <safiyyah> danfisherm same issue for me
[12:37] <safiyyah> danfish erm same issue for me
[12:43] <danfish> safiyyah: sorry - out of ideas :(
[12:46] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/593074/
[12:46] <popey> should be sudo apt-get install libreoffice-gnome
[12:46] <popey> not sudo apt-get install libreoffice
[12:49] <popey> maybe
[12:51] <shauno> http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2011/04/one-click-bash-installation-script-for.html   xmessage?  really?
[12:51] <safiyyah> popey still got the same output
[12:52] <popey> davmor2: that bug about bluetooth icon
[12:52] <popey> i filed it weeks ago iirc
[12:53] <popey> bug 742398
[12:54] <davmor2> popey: possibly let seb128 know I just pointed smittix in the general direction on filing a bug after speaking with seb128
[12:54] <popey> i have commented on that bug again
[12:56] <popey> shauno: what the hell is wrong with that guy, can't resist dragging the mouse around the screen highlighting nothing at all whilst talking
[12:56] <popey> in the first 30 seconds
[12:57] <ali1234> why is the video for how to use the "1 click installer" 7 minutes long?
[12:57] <popey> :)
[12:57] <ali1234> that's longer than it takes to install minecraft by hand
[12:57] <ali1234> too long; didn't watch
[13:11] <JGJones> ali1234, it's 8 minutes long actually
[13:12] <JGJones> I've always thought the point of a video tutorial was to just show the steps, without talking (making it universally accessible regardless of the language)
[13:13] <popey> i hate videos with no narration
[13:14] <popey> it makes me think "What are you showing me? Why are you showing me this?"
[13:14] <popey> if you sat next to someone showing you something, they wouldn't be mute, they'd explain it
[13:15] <JGJones> Yeah I know....I'm looking at it differently, because a nonsense voice booming in the background is annoying for me. So probably the best thing is to include subtitles that can be translated I guess, but no-one does this :)
[13:15] <popey> i did :)
[13:16] <popey> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2369893842637434537#
[13:17] <JGJones> popey - that's awesome :) But I'm more amazed...thought Google Video was all merged into YouTube actually!
[13:18] <popey> I uploaded those years ago, before the merger
[13:18] <JGJones> yeah...quite some time...Ubuntu 6.06 :)
[13:20] <smittix> bah I have totally forgot the name of the TS Client I use.
[13:20] <smittix> And I use it on a daily basis
[13:20] <smittix> :/
[13:21] <diplo> Remmina ?
[13:21] <smittix> Bingo!
[13:21] <smittix> Ta
[13:21] <smittix> heh
[13:22] <smittix> I went blank there for a minute.
[13:38] <gr33npeace> morning all!
[13:39] <MooDoo> morning
[13:39] <dogmatic69> o/
[13:39] <gr33npeace> anyone else use empathy to connect to a Google Apps chat account?  Anyone else notice the small age it takes to login?  Anyone found a way to deal with this?
[13:40] <gr33npeace> aside from throwing the laptop at a wall.  I'm keeping that as Plan B.
[13:40] <dogmatic69> http://mail.google.com/mail :)
[13:40] <gr33npeace> aaargh, don't start with that!!  :)   I don't get notifications of chats and my work colleagues think I'm rude/report my non-working to my boss
[13:41] <dogmatic69> Empathy 2.32.1 starts instantly for me
[13:41] <dogmatic69> lol, reported for not working when you are not on chat :D
[13:41] <gr33npeace> really?  I have a "normal" gmail account, and that logs in immediately... but my work Google Apps account takes F.O.R.E.V.E.R.
[13:42] <gr33npeace> dogmatic69: yeah... international company... many timezones... tight management
[13:42] <ali1234> use pidgin instead
[13:42] <gr33npeace> ali1234: tried, that doesn't even login!!  :)
[13:42] <hamitron> pidgin ftw \o/
[13:43] <hamitron> oh :/
[13:43] <gr33npeace> hamitron: yeah... that's pretty much what I thought... in that order
[13:43] <ali1234> so amazon made a kindle with adverts
[13:43] <ali1234> it's a whole £15 cheaper
[13:43] <hamitron> under 100 quid?
[13:43] <dwatkins> I'd pay 15 GBP just to never have adverts on a kindle.
[13:44] <ali1234> seems like a bad deal to me
[13:44] <dogmatic69> just added my work gmail thing and it was instant too
[13:44] <smittix> Can pidgin do video chat?
[13:44] <ali1234> yes
[13:44] <MooDoo> ali1234: not sure if they are releasing it over here yet
[13:44] <MooDoo> it's adverts on the home screen when in standby mode
[13:45] <gr33npeace> dogmatic69: that's strange... did you add it to empathy?
[13:45] <dogmatic69> yes
[13:45] <dogmatic69> Empathy 2.32.1
[13:45] <hamitron> will it only be the 3G version?
[13:45] <hamitron> so it can download the adverts
[13:45] <dwatkins> "adverts that will hang around at the bottom of the main menu"
[13:45] <gr33npeace> dogmatic69: same version as me...
[13:45] <ali1234> i thought the whole point of e-ink was that it's always in standby mode
[13:46] <ali1234> except when you turn the page
[13:46] <dwatkins> I think this means 'screensaver mode' ali1234
[13:46] <ali1234> why would it have a screen saver
[13:46] <hamitron> "when you turn the page".... the few moments you aren't even reading the thing :/
[13:46] <dwatkins> having said that, you can hack the screensaver to display whatever you want
[13:46] <ali1234> that would use more power and wear it out faster than not having one
[13:47] <hamitron> "screen strainer"
[13:47] <dwatkins> heh good point
[13:48] <ali1234> sounds to me like if you take longer the 5 minutes to read a page it's going to shove an advert in your face
[13:48] <ali1234> i can't see any other way how the "screensaver" would ever get activated
[13:48] <dwatkins> even adverts just on the menu would be annoying
[13:48] <MooDoo> adverts = annoying .
[13:48] <dwatkins> the screensaver thing comes on when you sleep the device, I gather
[13:49] <ali1234> yeah well that's just plain bad design then because it should be sleeping all the time except when you turn the page
[13:49] <dwatkins> or if you do nothing for ages (20 minutes)
[13:50] <dwatkins> it does, this is a different kind of sleep
[13:50] <dwatkins> it's idling when not turning the page, but displaying an image from a library of authors when you don't use it for a while or you put it into "I'm not using you right now" mode
[13:51] <smittix> Does anyone use FGLRX and Wobbly windows in Natty? Is it jerky?
[13:52] <dwatkins> I used fglrx on SGI machines years ago, they were hideously slow, so unfortunately that's no surprise, smittix
[13:52] <smittix> Last couple of years everything has been fine on this lappy dwatkins
[13:53] <smittix> Everything nice and smooth.
[13:53] <dwatkins> smittix: excellent
[13:53] <smittix> Just not as smooth on nattty
[14:03] <directhex> i use fglrx on maverick.
[14:25] <selinuxium> hi all   o/
[14:26] <BigRedS> g'morning!
[14:27] <selinuxium> Hey BigRedS :0
[14:27] <selinuxium> :)
[14:27] <BigRedS> herro :)
[14:27] <selinuxium> I have actually got the company to buy 24/7 support for our Ubuntu server! (yay!)
[14:28] <BigRedS> whooo!
[14:28] <MooDoo> woohoo
[14:30] <selinuxium> where my gold star? ;)
[14:30] <MooDoo> *
[14:30] <MooDoo> there you go
[14:31] <BigRedS> That's silver on my monitor
[14:31]  * BigRedS adjusts the colours
[14:31] <MooDoo> :p
[14:31] <selinuxium> lol
[14:32] <MooDoo> selinuxium: http://www.schoolmeritstickers.com/productimages/display/SA145.jpg i'll fill this in for you
[14:33] <selinuxium> MooDoo, Very funny! :)
[14:33] <MooDoo> :D
[14:33] <hamitron> :)
[14:34] <directhex> installed cyanogenmod on my hero
[14:34] <directhex> android 2.3.3
[14:34] <hamitron> :-o
[14:35] <hamitron> directhex: working ok?
[14:35] <selinuxium> I still have my hero.. my upgrade is ready but I am going ot hang out for a dual core me'thinks...
[14:36] <directhex> hamitron, haven't tested blootoofs yet. rest seems okay
[14:36] <BigRedS> I got bored of waiting for cyanogenmod for my galaxy, and stuck Darky's on it. It seems that anything that's not made by a company is generally good :)
[14:36] <directhex> clockworkrecovery didn't work until i flashed it a second time, so installing was painful
[14:37] <BigRedS> I thought that was the current way of 'installing' clockworkmod?
[14:38] <BigRedS> use the stock bootloader to install update.zip, which is clockworkmod. but you have to do it twice for no reason. then use clockwork mod to 'recover from' whatever zip you're installing
[14:38] <hamitron> I dunno why they can't just make it easier to choose the version of android you want :/
[14:38] <hamitron> provide a cable with instructions for flashing
[14:38] <BigRedS> yeah, I did wonder what Samsung gained from encrappening my galaxy
[14:39] <BigRedS> i suppose the crapware probably pays for itself but the breaking of the UI probably doesn't
[14:40] <hamitron> I'm getting too old to be jumping through hoops
[14:40] <AlanBell> they call the crapware "incremental revenue opportunities"
[14:40] <hamitron> ;/
[14:40] <BigRedS> I did get quite angry at samsung for making it difficult. I think the trick is to completely re-rom it as soon as it arrives, while there's enough novelty value for hoop jumping to be fun
[14:41] <AlanBell> we were talking to a retailer about Ubuntu and they wanted to fill it with trial stuff, we explained that we had full unrestricted versions of everything, they were not impressed
[14:41] <hamitron> BigRedS: break it before the end of the month? ;)
[14:41] <AlanBell> "where are our incremental revenue opportunities?"
[14:41] <hamitron> hehe
[14:42] <AlanBell> "it is better for the customer"
[14:42] <AlanBell> "don't care, where is my revenue"
[14:42] <hamitron> tbh, I can see their point
[14:42] <hamitron> if you provide everything needed for free, no opertunity to make money
[14:42] <directhex> of all people, sony ericsson have announced they're going to have a fully unencrypted bootloader on non-network-locked devices from now on
[14:43] <AlanBell> so retailers really really want a trial virus scanner, a trial office suite, a trial firewall, a trial DVD player etc. etc.
[14:43] <hamitron> directhex: on their new PSPhone?
[14:43] <directhex> hamitron, if the user can install gingerbread on a 2-year-old phone, they won't buy a new phone. hence lockdown. simple!
[14:43] <directhex> hamitron, yes, for example
[14:43] <hamitron> if only sony hadn't upset me so much these last few years :/
[14:43] <directhex> http://blogs.sonyericsson.com/developerworld/2011/03/29/unlocking-the-boot-loader-in-the-new-xperia%E2%84%A2-smartphones/
[14:44] <hamitron> directhex: they may change their mind and remove it
[14:44] <hamitron> ;)
[14:44] <BigRedS> hamitron: I rooted it within about an hour of unboxing it :)
[14:44] <directhex> hamitron, and sue you if you don't like it? :p
[14:44] <hamitron> hehe
[14:45] <bigcalm> Before I fudge up a client's server, is my bash foo safe? find /var/www/VirtualDomains/ptp/web/uploads/tmp -type f -mtime +1 -exec rm {} \;
[14:45] <BigRedS> bigcalm: depends what you want to do ;)
[14:45] <bigcalm> BigRedS: world domination, but I'm not sure that bash will help me with that
[14:45] <BigRedS> but, yeah, any files over a day old in the ..../tmp dir will be deleted
[14:45] <bigcalm> BigRedS: delete files in a dir older than 1 day
[14:45] <bigcalm> Sweet
[14:45] <bigcalm> Ta
[14:46] <BigRedS> could do rm -v to check, if you're concerned
[14:46] <bigcalm> It's going to go in a cronjob, so I might for the 1st few days
[14:47] <bigcalm> There are similar folders that need to have content deleted after 28 days as well
[14:48] <hamitron> directhex: so they are saying you can on some new sony phones, but if you do A you may be charged and doing B can also be charged for.... oh, and you void all warrenty
[14:48] <directhex> hamitron, at least it's a clear policy
[14:48] <hamitron> sounds more like a way of charging for repairs to more users, and not having to provide any warrenty to me
[14:49] <directhex> hamitron, it's a way for them to say "you brick it we're not sympathetic"
[14:49] <hamitron> yeh, that is fair
[14:49] <hamitron> but not if the keypad goes faulty....
[14:49] <directhex> keypad goes faulty, restore your nandroid backup of their rom before sending it back
[14:49] <hamitron> or other parts of hardware
[14:49] <BigRedS> directhex: without a keypad? ;)
[14:50] <directhex> also note in the EU they can't refuse to cover hardware defects due to software
[14:50] <hamitron> they maybe technically can't, but can be sure they will try ;)
[14:53] <hamitron> I'm still not inspired to get an android phone :/
[14:53] <hamitron> so will just sit on the fence and see what happens ;)
[14:57] <bigcalm> BigRedS: the line I pasted, how will it cope with filenames with spaces in them?
[14:59] <BigRedS> bigcalm: ooh, badly
[14:59] <BigRedS> didn't think of that. I forget people put spaces in filenames
[14:59] <BigRedS> I need to write a script that detects filenames with spaces in and slaps the offender
[15:00] <directhex> hamitron, i'm not inspired to get another android phone
[15:00] <directhex> hamitron, my actions now depend on HP.
[15:00] <hamitron> oh?
[15:01] <hamitron> I'm still not sure if to go android, meego or wp7
[15:01] <hamitron> or even just some other device
[15:01] <hamitron> :)
[15:03] <bigcalm> BigRedS: easy way to make it cope with spaces?
[15:04] <BigRedS> bigcalm: yeah, quoting. I'm not sure off the top of my head, but i think just -exec rm "{}" \; might do it
[15:04] <BigRedS> I'd google, though
[15:05] <bigcalm> Humm, ok
[15:05]  * bigcalm continues his googlings
[15:07] <BigRedS> it's amazing how many times I can forget to change the IP address in a vhost, and still spend ten minutes dumfounded as to why it's not working :/
[15:08] <bigcalm> Have your vhosts listen on any ip address?
[15:08] <hamitron> time for tea and cakes, brb
[15:09] <BigRedS> bigcalm: that'd take some of the fun out of it
[15:12] <BigRedS> quick sanity check - copying the second field of /etc/shadow for a user from one machine to another will give them the same password on each machine?
[15:12] <BigRedS> or is there salting funny business going on?
[15:16] <scoundrel50> Hi, when is Natty being made available to install? I know its in beta at the moment. How close is it to being ok to use?
[15:18] <AlanBell> scoundrel50: it is available right now to install
[15:18] <MooDoo> scoundrel50: i'm using it now
[15:18] <MooDoo> quite like it to be honest :)
[15:18] <AlanBell> it will be released on the 28th of this month
[15:18] <scoundrel50> how do I install it?
[15:19] <AlanBell> !natty
[15:19] <AlanBell> !download
[15:19] <AlanBell> nope, not that
[15:19] <MooDoo> update-manager i used
[15:20] <AlanBell> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[15:20] <scoundrel50> if its this close to release, most of the errors would be fixed, yes?
[15:20] <scoundrel50> I would be using update manager, as I dont know to isntall upgrade using liove cd
[15:21] <MooDoo> scoundrel50: possibly :)
[15:21] <AlanBell> it has been worse than it is now
[15:21] <MooDoo> scoundrel50: i went from maverick to natty on my laptop using update-manager
[15:21] <AlanBell> update-manager -d or something
[15:21] <AlanBell> or I think in update manager you can ask it to show development releases
[15:23] <scoundrel50> I was just looking at the Unity, isnt that the netbook desktop? I tried using that on my netbook, and got imnsto all sorts of confusions, has it been changed much from that?
[15:23] <bigcalm> BigRedS: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/593134/
[15:23] <directhex> hamitron, meego doesn't have any future, IMHO. not in handsets, at least
[15:25] <BigRedS> bigcalm: oh, cool
[15:26] <gordonjcp> scoundrel50: it seems to be quite like the netbook interface
[15:26] <directhex> hamitron, it's a choice between android or iphone or blackberry in the big leagues, wp7 and webos for the smaller competitors
[15:27] <bigcalm> BigRedS: I just hope it's universal across version of find
[15:28] <scoundrel50> I think I am going to try give it a go. Cross your fingers for me......
[15:34] <BigRedS> bigcalm: I'd expect so, tbh. It's the sensible way to do it
[15:40] <AlanBell> is a random firewire card like this likely to have any issues with Ubuntu? http://www.dabs.com/products/startech-com-4-port-ieee-1394-pci-firewire-card-2QFG.html?q=firewire%20card
[15:41] <bigcalm> http://i.imgur.com/kXWg6.jpg # hehe
[15:41] <hamitron> directhex: not unless some hardware vendor backs it, no. but still a nice toy ;)
[15:42] <directhex> hamitron, well, there's a meego image for n900
[15:42] <directhex> AlanBell, firewire is all done with one universal driver
[15:42] <directhex> like usb2/3
[15:43] <hamitron> yep, that is what I have considered
[15:43] <hamitron> but is symbian dead?
[15:44] <JGJones> hamitron, from what I've read...pretty much - it's "open" only to business partners, of which there are a very small numbers that still use Symbian just in Japan
[15:45] <hamitron> such a shame
[15:45] <hamitron> :/
[15:46] <JGJones> Yeah since it appears that Symbian works really well on very low end hardware (very cheap and long battery life) - in fact perfect for countries that don't have the income to play with latest smartphones - Symbian is very popular in Africa/India etc for a reason.
[15:47] <hamitron> tbh, most people even here don't need something as complex as android
[15:47] <AlanBell> all I want is ssh and a browser
[15:48] <JGJones> Dammit I NEED Angry Birds!
[15:48] <JGJones> err
[15:48] <JGJones> wait I use it for work.
[15:48] <hamitron> haha
[15:48] <JGJones> Really
[15:48] <JGJones> like..um...check emails?
[15:49] <MooDoo> shush i'm playing angry birds rio :)
[15:49] <hamitron> symbian is advanced though, with QT and all
[15:49] <JGJones> hamitron, yeah, it CAN do it, but it's usually not paired with a phone that make it really fly.
[15:50] <hamitron> but nokia have probably closed it to reduce competition
[15:50] <JGJones> It's usually on hardware that's a tad slow...so when I compare it to Android on N1...Symbian feel so slow and inefficient
[15:50] <hamitron> yeh
[15:50] <hamitron> but per cycle, it rocks!
[15:50] <JGJones> and I still think Nokia's daft to go WP7 only.
[15:50] <hamitron> just give it some cycles :/
[15:50] <hamitron> they aren't are they?
[15:51] <JGJones> wonder what'll happen to the software division in Nokia now that they're not going to do much.
[15:51] <hamitron> I read they will probably be continuing on other stuff
[15:53] <hamitron> WP7 only would isolate them from the budget market.... big mistake
[15:57] <HazRPG> \o
[15:58] <bigcalm> hamitron: read that as WordPress 7. I was confused :S
[15:58] <bigcalm> Hi HazRPG
[15:58] <JGJones> Nokia make a huge range of phones, each doing different things...I wonder how that would work with WP7 since MS have a defined certain limitation on what hardware you can use with it
[15:58] <HazRPG> bigcalm: hey dude
[15:58] <JGJones> ie minimum speed of CPU, screen resolution, even buttons etc.
[16:03] <hamitron> JGJones: Nokia have not said they will ship _only_ wp7 phones
[16:05] <hamitron> so I'd guess it will only be the high end phones they make that will be pushed with wp7
[16:05] <JGJones> Yeah, Nokia did say that they'll ship a version of Meego - that's one, but they are phasing out Symbian phones and they're not doing much work on Meego now...so...what are they doing?
[16:05] <JGJones> so basically it leave...um...WP7?
[16:05] <dogmatic69> anyone know how to open OOo draw?
[16:05] <hamitron> have they actually said they will stop all symbian?
[16:06] <dogmatic69> cant see it in the menu, although i have writer etc
[16:06] <AlanBell> hamitron: no, they just said it isn't open source
[16:06] <AlanBell> so we can continue to pay no attention to it
[16:07] <hamitron> AlanBell: is there a source I can download the originally open sourced code?
[16:07] <JGJones> hamitron, they haven't said they're planning NEW symbian phones either :-) But they have said that they will continue to support existing phones and make them (150 million over the next year or so)
[16:07] <AlanBell> I heard that was on sourceforge somewhere
[16:07] <AlanBell> can't be bothered to look tbh
[16:08] <hamitron> AlanBell: hehe
[16:08] <JGJones> hamitron, http://www.i-programmer.info/news/83-mobliephone/2175-nokia-sends-open-letter-to-developers-about-the-future.html
[16:08] <JGJones> bye bye symbian phones
[16:09] <AlanBell> "open as in letter"
[16:10] <AlanBell> I went to a presentation with a symbian person telling us how they had the most open source devices in the world, bigger than Linux etc
[16:10] <JGJones> Was there much laughter to be had? :)
[16:10] <AlanBell> there were some confused looks
[16:11] <AlanBell> I figured this might be interesting, best get round to looking at it at some point
[16:11] <JGJones> Talking about closed source...time for me to reboot into Windows...urgh...(I gave up on trying to get Ekiga to support H.263/H.264 video codecs so there's no SIP video calling in Linux for me)
[16:11] <AlanBell> and it has gone, before I wasted any time looking at it
[16:20] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: hmm, sure its even installed? (can't remember if its in there by default or not)
[16:21] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: oh, its under "Graphics" in the menu btw, not "Office"
[16:26] <dogmatic69> HazRPG: found it under graphics
[16:26] <HazRPG> dogmatic69: :)
[17:22] <gord> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4536294249/more-quicklists - genius
[17:24]  * bigcalm bookmarks that for when Unity is forced upon him
[17:24] <scoundrel50a> Hi, what hanel did you say was there for problems with installing Natty?
[17:24] <scoundrel50a> Major problem in installing
[17:25] <davmor2> scoundrel50a: what's the issue?
[17:25] <scoundrel50a> well, installation seemed to go ok, got to reboot, and get past grub,and screen goes black and nothing happens
[17:25] <scoundrel50a> cant even get into recovery mode
[17:26] <scoundrel50a> have to use power button to turn it off,
[17:26] <davmor2> scoundrel50a: sounds like a gfx issue rather than an installer issue then.  What iso did you use?
[17:27] <scoundrel50a> I id it via the update manager
[17:28] <davmor2> scoundrel50a: In that case it's nothing to do with the installer team at all then.  It could be that a whole bunch of things that have trigger this you're best bet is to start on #ubuntu the official help channel and work from there
[17:29] <scoundrel50a> ok
[17:49] <scoundrel50a> ok, have tried #ubuntu....got told to go to 'ubuntu+1, tried there, no answer.
[17:51] <scoundrel50a> Discovered something, in the new grub, it gives an option to go into older version of Ubuntu, so I click on that, and the desktop appears, and its the new desktop. With the icons down the side, so somehow the install has gone wrong somewhere
[17:51] <scoundrel50a> is there anyway, now I am in this new desktop to update or something to see if it will worK
[17:53] <scoundrel50a> hello?
[17:55] <davmor2> scoundrel50a: You might find it is the new version of your gfx driver if that is the case, the older kernel would use the older driver,  let me guess at an nvidia gfx card?
[17:55] <scoundrel50a> how can I find out?
[17:57] <davmor2> No idea I'm afraid, also don't forget that people on irc might not answer straight away as they are doing things like work and stuff :)
[17:58] <scoundrel50a> so why should it go to a black screen when I click on the first option in grub, but will open to the new desktop if I click on the older version option
[17:58] <scoundrel50a> I am sorry, I wasnt trying to be funny, I do understand about people doing things, wass just asking
[18:11] <brobostigon> good evening everyone.
[18:11] <pr0ph3t> evening
[18:11] <Psychobudgie> evening
[18:12] <Psychobudgie> Anyone here use kde regularly?
[18:13] <HazRPG> Psychobudgie: I'd say most use Gnome mainly in here, why whats up?
[18:13] <brobostigon> good evening pr0ph3t and Psychobudgie
[18:14] <scoundrel50a> is there anyway to fix this upgrade so that I can boot into Ubuntu properly, instead of via previous verion
[18:14] <Psychobudgie> been using unity for the last week or so and lets just leave it at that. I'm looking for an alternative desktop
[18:15] <Psychobudgie> just interested to know what issues to expect when I install kde
[18:17] <Psychobudgie> I'm making a pre-emptive move before natty goes final
[18:18] <brobostigon> gnome3, :)
[18:18] <pr0ph3t> I noticed a discrepancy between HD video playback between my Ubuntu box and my Windows installation on the same hardware. When I play a movie which claims to be at 1080p on windows all is fine, but on Linux it lags during certain scenes. Now arguably, the hardware I am using is not the fastest, I have an asus ul30a laptop with ulv cpus intel core 2 duo 3gb of ram and a horrid integrated intel graphics card. Is there an
[18:18] <pr0ph3t> y way I could improve the playback performance on Ubuntu just enough to be able to watch those movies without having to log onto windows?
[18:19] <Psychobudgie> I'd prolly try gnome 3 at some point, but as ubu seems to be pumping everything into unity and compiz it will probably be on a different distro
[18:19] <HazRPG> brobostigon: good evening :) \o
[18:19] <pr0ph3t> or is it just a problem which lies purely on the porting of the graphics drivers
[18:19] <Psychobudgie> pr0ph3t, it will be the graphics drivers
[18:19] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yay, good evening.:)
[18:19]  * brobostigon jumps on HazRPG and hugs,
[18:20] <Psychobudgie> either that or the codec you are using
[18:20] <Psychobudgie> but probably the first
[18:20] <HazRPG> pr0ph3t: evening dude
[18:20] <pr0ph3t> evening HazRPG
[18:20] <MartijnVdS> HD video about the space shuttle (narrated by William Shatner) - http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/hd/index.html
[18:21] <HazRPG> pr0ph3t: hmm, that's an interesting question... what sort of tools are you working with so far?
[18:22] <Psychobudgie> pr0ph3t, if it's streaming, try downloading it first then playing it locally
[18:22] <HazRPG> Psychobudgie: gnome as a desktop environment, according to shuttleworth, isn't going to be in ubuntu at all after natty... so the next release will just be purely unity
[18:22] <pr0ph3t> HazRPG, well I am working on high resolution as well, 1920 x 1080, playing locally with VLC, totem lags a lot more
[18:23]  * MartijnVdS has va-api installed
[18:23] <HazRPG> pr0ph3t: really? I find VLC to be slower than totem :/
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> only vlc uses it, but it removed all lag issues
[18:23] <Psychobudgie> HazRPG, if that is the case all the progress ubuntu has made over the last 8 years will be for absolutely nothing
[18:24] <Psychobudgie> it will be the next mandrake
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's going to be in ubuntu, it just won't be the default install or on the CD
[18:24] <pr0ph3t> HazRPG, version 1.1.8
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you can make a Gubuntu (just like kubuntu now) if you like
[18:25] <Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, some are already making moves to do just that
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: See, no problem then :)
[18:25] <Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, think they are calling it mint ;)
[18:25] <pr0ph3t> sory MartijnVdS what did you mean onyl vlc uses it?
[18:25] <MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: isn't mint full of other kinds of poo as well? (patent-stuff, codec-stuff)
[18:26] <pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, you mean va-api?
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: VLC has an option for it to use VA-API, gstreamer doesn't seem capable (yet). Totem uses gstreamer
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: yes
[18:26] <Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, as far as I was aware mint is essentially ubuntu with a green skin
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: and non-free codecs?
[18:27] <Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, they aren't exactly difficult to get hold of
[18:27] <Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, or to install
[18:29] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I doubt I have the time to keep something like a distro current and up-to-date xD
[18:29] <Psychobudgie> don't like the direction ubuntu is heading at the moment
[18:29] <AlanBell> which way is that then?
[18:30] <HazRPG> Psychobudgie: you are arguably right, and there has been MANY flames and discussions over the fact that gnome is planned to be lost... however if they have any sense, they will try to please everyone in the end. Gnome is still going to exist in the repos though, it just won't be a standard install of it.
[18:30] <Psychobudgie> the zero config way
[18:31] <HazRPG> Psychobudgie: mint is only similar to ubuntu in the sense that ubuntu is similar to debian
[18:31] <HazRPG> the whole interface, design choices, and application sets are very different
[18:31] <Psychobudgie> mark s has commented that the current config for unity may be removed entirely before release as they want it to essentially force zero config
[18:32] <Psychobudgie> which I would understand for a commercial os, it's far easier to support
[18:32] <Psychobudgie> but this isn't a commercial os
[18:32] <X3N> Psychobudgie: maybe it is now
[18:33] <Psychobudgie> not a criticism, just not for me
[18:33] <Psychobudgie> X3N, I don't think it is, I think shuttleworth wants it to be one though
[18:34] <Psychobudgie> which is why I mentioned mandrake earlier
[18:34] <X3N> I've been using ubuntu since it was formed and this is the first time i've seriously considered switching to fedora
[18:34] <Psychobudgie> they tried similar in 2003ish and went bankrupt as a result as almost their entire userbase jumped to, ironically, ubuntu
[18:35] <X3N> I'm involved in gnome 3 upstream, so if ubuntu stops supporting gnome properly then it doesn't make sense for me to use ubuntu what ever the other benifits
[18:35] <Psychobudgie> it would be ironic if ubuntu made the exact same mistake
[18:35] <Psychobudgie> X3N, that's my opinion also
[18:36] <Psychobudgie> If I'm going to move to gnome 3 it will likely be on a distro that fully supports it
[18:36] <X3N> yeah
[18:36] <Psychobudgie> still, I'll give kde a go
[18:37] <X3N> and I don't think I'll recommend it to any friends anymore either with the current direction
[18:37] <Psychobudgie> was a faithful kde user at one point in the distant past
[18:37] <Psychobudgie> I wouldn't put it on anyones machine with unity as the front end
[18:37] <Psychobudgie> not unless I wanted them to hate linux
[18:38]  * brobostigon is using natty with gnome3-team ppa,
[18:38] <Psychobudgie> brobostigon, any good?
[18:38] <Psychobudgie> brobostigon, too early to comment?
[18:38] <X3N> I tried the gnome3 ppa yesterday but it was failing all over the shop
[18:38] <rml_home> Can anyone give me a hint on why my update manager doesn't want to run?
[18:38] <brobostigon> Psychobudgie: a few package oddities, other wise, spot on.
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> I trie dthe gnome3 ppa but I couldn't log in
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> gdm just hung
[18:39] <X3N> I've since built gnome3 from source
[18:39] <Psychobudgie> rml_home, you on the beta?
[18:40] <rml_home> nope, vanilla 10.10
[18:40] <Psychobudgie> rml_home, getting any errors?
[18:41] <rml_home> Psychobudgie: not that I can see.
[18:41] <Psychobudgie> run it from a terminal
[18:41] <Psychobudgie> should spit out any errors
[18:41] <rml_home> Psychobudgie: It flashed on screen the first time I tried, then disappeared
[18:42] <Psychobudgie> run it from a terminal
[18:42] <rml_home> Psychobudgie: cheers, I'll give it a whirl
[18:43] <Psychobudgie> just type 'sudo update-manager'
[18:43] <Psychobudgie> should tell you why it's not running
[18:44] <rml_home> Psychobudgie: just tried that.  Got some gruesome error messages :(
[18:45] <rml_home> is there a pastebot here?
[18:46] <brobostigon> !pastebin
[18:46] <rml_home> I don't want to get kicked for pasting ~8 lines ;)
[18:46] <rml_home> lubotu3: thanks
[18:46] <rml_home> D'oh! :)
[18:47] <brobostigon> rml_home: he is a bot,
[18:47] <Daniel0108> hi
[18:47] <brobostigon> :)
[18:47] <Daniel0108> does somebody know phillw in REAL LIFE?
[18:47] <Psychobudgie> heh
[18:47] <brobostigon> noswaith dda Daniel0108
[18:47] <rml_home> the "bot" in the name should have been the giveaway...
[18:48] <brobostigon> yes.
[18:48] <Daniel0108> brobostigon: you know phillw in real life?
[18:48] <brobostigon> Daniel0108: sorry, no.
[18:49] <Daniel0108> oh okay
[18:49] <Daniel0108> does somebody know what happened to phillw?
[18:49] <Daniel0108> why is he offline?
[18:49] <Psychobudgie> gone on holiday?
[18:49] <Psychobudgie> fell asleep on the keyboard?
[18:49] <rml_home> http://paste.ubuntu.com/593240/
[18:50] <rml_home> I'm guessing the segmentation fault is the biggie
[18:50] <Daniel0108> Psychobudgie: the problem is, there's no email.
[18:50] <Daniel0108> from him
[18:51] <Psychobudgie> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1600870.html
[18:51] <Psychobudgie> that covers that exact issue
[18:52] <Psychobudgie> looks like your last update messed up
[18:52] <X3N> rml_home: you could try reinstalling sudo apt-get install update-manager --reinstall
[18:53] <X3N> otherwise you'd need to get a backtrace and file a bug
[18:53] <rml_home> Psychobudgie: Cheers.  I'll try reinstalling upgrade-manager and if it's still toes-up will try manually upgrading other stuff from package manager
[18:53] <Psychobudgie> I'd go with the latter first
[18:54] <Psychobudgie> as it seems to be that actual cause
[18:54] <Psychobudgie> brb
[18:54] <Psychobudgie> switching to kubu
[18:56] <Daniel0108> does anyone know what happened to phillw??? He just disappeared and there's a team where he is Head of Admin and we need him!
[18:56] <Daniel0108> and we need his server
[18:58] <X3N> have you tried contacting him via his details on launchpad?
[19:03] <smittix> hmm trying to add a wine application to the launcher in natty doesnt work :(
[19:04] <Psychobudgie> well that didn't work
[19:05] <Psychobudgie> got a black desktop in kde though plasma does actually seem to be running minus the desktop
[19:07] <pr0ph3t> sorry I am a bit confused as to what this means:  libva-dev : Depends: libva1 (< 1.0.8+1~) but 1.0.31.1-1+sds4~odk2+maverick is to be installed
[19:08] <gr33npea1e> whois whois gr33npea1e
[19:08] <pr0ph3t> it is still connected to my HD video playback issues, I am trying to install libval-dev but that's what I get
[19:09] <gr33npea1e> oops
[19:09] <smittix> anybody use dropbox in natty?
[19:10] <pr0ph3t> I am on natty though, so I don't understand the maverick at the end
[19:11] <pr0ph3t> but could that be a problem making the playback slow? Also do you find Gnash to be more reliable than Adobe Flash for 64bit systems?
[19:12] <Jibadeeha> grrr autofs is doing my head in
[19:13] <Psychobudgie> adobe flash works fine, just use flash-aid to keep it up to date
[19:14] <Psychobudgie> ok here goes nothing
[19:14] <Psychobudgie> brb
[19:14] <rml_home> eek!  650+ items upgading
[19:22] <rml_home> Psychobudgie/X3N: Many thanks.  I now have a fully upgraded system.
[19:23] <rml_home> (and my update manager works)
[19:23] <Psychobudgie> marvellous
[19:23] <Psychobudgie> np, enjoy
[19:24] <Psychobudgie> well got kde working here, so I'm also getting somewhere
[19:26] <scoundrel50a> ok, I just thought I would mention something about the upgrade to natty, I tried to upgrade via Update Manager, and got a black screen after grub, but cold boot up when I entered use older version, so I tried to do fresh install, and as soon as the cd rom begins, it immediately goes to a black screen, even though the cd rom is trying to load. There is a conflict I think with Natty and Aspire Intell GMA 4500M laptops
[19:27] <smittix> No Dropbox indicator in natty :(
[19:39] <davmor2> smittix: there might be a ppa that covers that
[19:41] <davmor2> Psychobudgie: you might be better off with Xubuntu you can keep the gnome apps you're familiar with in a desktop that resemble tradition gnome
[19:42] <Psychobudgie> kde looks so much like windows it's scary
[19:43] <Psychobudgie> nope. back to gnome 2 for the moment
[19:44] <Psychobudgie> heh
[19:44] <davmor2> scoundrel50a: Right so when you direct Grub to use your old kernel it uses the old driver that worked, when using the newer kernel it will use the newer driver for you gfx that obviously doesn't.
[19:46] <scoundrel50a> so how do I fix that?
[19:47] <scoundrel50a> Using the old kernal option loads the Natty, I see the new desktop version, that looks like the old Notebook desktop
[19:48] <scoundrel50a> with the icons on the left of the desktop
[19:48] <davmor2> scoundrel50a: As I said previously the people on ubuntu+1 will possibly be your best bet, what you can do in the interim is boot into the old kernel open a terminal and type "ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg" and a then add the details to the bug report to help the developers and ubuntu+1 as you can direct them to your bug.
[19:48] <scoundrel50a> nope, tried that, no answer
[19:49] <scoundrel50a> ok, I'll try that, and add a bug report
[19:49] <scoundrel50a> How do I add a bug report?
[19:50] <davmor2> scoundrel50a: the other thing you can try is "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -f" incase something didn't download or there was an error
[19:50] <scoundrel50a> tried that, whilst in the old kernal, and it didnt do anything
[19:50] <davmor2> scoundrel50a: the "ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg" will take care of the bulk of it for you
[19:51] <scoundrel50a> ok, will give that a go
[20:24] <aaronr> is there a way to generate the autodetected X config that ubuntu is using? I need to customise it to add touchscreen support. Tried "X -configure" as root, but that just errors out with "number of screens created doesn't match number detected" or something
[20:27] <popey> We're live in 3 mins!
[20:27] <popey> in #ubuntu-uk-podcast
[20:27] <hamitron> aaronr: there used to be a way with dpkg-reconfigure or something, but I think it has been un-maintained or removed
[20:29] <hamitron> if you find a good way of doing what you need, please let me know about it :)
[20:34] <shauno> X -configure is meant to work.  worth trying X :1 -configure if it gets confused by already having X running
[20:34] <aaronr> ah, i shut down X first
[20:35] <aaronr> will def post here with results if i get it going
[20:35] <hamitron> I found that to return a weird config
[20:35] <hamitron> :/
[20:35] <hamitron> but I suppose it may work with a normal comp
[20:35] <hamitron> :)
[20:35] <aaronr> it didn't work at all for me.
[20:36] <aaronr> using that xorg.conf stopped X working
[20:36] <aaronr> its a normal enough machine, it can run the display fine
[20:36] <aaronr> it's just that i want to add the config lines for the touchscreen driver, but ubuntu doesn't do xorg.conf by default.
[20:37] <aaronr> is there a way I can just feed X the relevant part?
[20:37] <shauno> you should be able to get away with just putting that in xorg.conf
[20:37] <shauno> that's all mine has
[20:38] <aaronr> hmm.
[20:38] <aaronr> that made X tell me there was no screens configured in my xorg.conf
[20:38] <aaronr> (because it only had the input driver config)
[20:38] <aaronr> guessing the presence of xorg.conf totally switches off all autodetection
[20:39] <scoundrel50a> hi, I added a bug report, lp 759194 does anything show up that might shed a light on the problem?
[20:39] <scoundrel50a> lp 759104 sorry
[20:40] <shauno> ah; do you have a /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/  ?  (a folder rather than a file)
[20:44] <shauno> I think to have just the bit you need, it needs to be an inputclass rather than an inputdevice
[20:46] <shauno> (an inputdevice says "this is what I have" and has to be called from a screen declaration that includes it, and all that nonsense.  an inputclass just says "for devices matching this description, use this config")
[20:46] <shauno> not sure why X isn't generating a sane file tho, you'd think if it's autodetection wasn't doing the job it wouldn't work in the first place
[20:52] <aaronr> no, no xorg.conf.d unfortunately
[20:53] <aaronr> ah, i'll try inputclass, thanks shauno
[20:53] <aaronr> yeah agree that it's strange
[20:53] <aaronr> seems X is autodetecting via another means
[20:54] <shauno> no idea if it helps, but my xorg.conf is http://paste.ubuntu.com/593278/
[20:54] <shauno> that's the whole file.  it probably won't drop-in for yours, but an idea of what format will work without having to declare the whole config
[20:57] <hamitron> oh noes
[20:57] <shauno> nose
[20:57] <shauno> +?
[20:57] <hamitron> updated my comp to 64 bit windows 7
[20:58] <hamitron> and only just realised doing that for 2 games has rendered a few hundred of my old ones problematic
[20:58] <hamitron> :/
[20:58] <shauno> ouch
[20:58] <directhex> that many?
[20:58] <directhex> you must have a lot of mid-late 90s games
[20:58] <hamitron> I do
[20:58] <hamitron> :)
[20:58] <hamitron> win95-2000 was my time \o/
[20:59] <shauno> what's the point of an MS os that won't run xcom :p
[20:59] <directhex> dos is fine via dosbox
[21:00] <hamitron> dos games are easier to get working
[21:00] <hamitron> but now I remember why I had a win98 box at this desk, till 2 weeks ago
[21:00] <hamitron> ;)
[21:00] <directhex> problem is installshield
[21:01] <hamitron> I think I can get more working in wine, than win7
[21:01] <hamitron> haha
[21:01]  * hamitron changes the "haha" to a cry
[21:02] <aaronr> shauno: using an inputclass definitely stopped x crashing, now to find the right config for this screen. thank you. :)
[21:03] <hamitron> !modeline
[21:03] <directhex> problem is, when there was still a chance of a game being fed to a win3.1 machine, installshield shipped a 16-bit component which was enoguh to throw a "this app need win9x" error
[21:03] <shauno> my example may work if you replace the driver & option lines to match the config you were trying to use
[21:04] <directhex> but amd64 chips have two operating modes - 16-32, and 64-32 bit. you can't execute a 16 bit op on the chip when it's in 64-bit os. the 16-bit instructions don't exist at that point
[21:04] <hamitron> directhex: I hadn't thought of that
[21:04] <hamitron> :/
[21:04]  * hamitron curses himself
[21:05] <shauno> sounds like you're going to end up dualbooting windows & windows to maintain backwards compatibility :/
[21:05] <hamitron> shauno: old windows has no drivers for new hardware :/
[21:06] <hamitron> so it means I'm gonna be back to what it was like before.... loads of machines sat here for different tasks \o/
[21:06] <shauno> nose!
[21:06] <shauno> would having win7 32 & 64 side by side not do it?  so you've got a modern OS that's not running in a 64bit context?
[21:06] <hamitron> tbh, a few of my games don't work in XP :/
[21:07] <shauno> (and yes, this is why my idea of backwards compatibility is keeping my amiga)
[21:08] <directhex> i have a non-xp game
[21:08] <directhex> Fur Fighters
[21:08] <directhex> bad enough that windows itself has a "no chance, give up" popup when you install it
[21:08] <hamitron> so i now have a new gaming rig that won't play most of my games, it seems
[21:08] <directhex> a bit like unpatched... system shock 2? one of those dark engine games
[21:08] <hamitron> but at least the few games I have run fast and pretty \o/
[21:46] <ali1234> any game that doesn't work in XP probably doesn't even use accelerated graphics... so just run it in virtualbox
[21:59] <hamitron> ali1234: they are some picky ones that need win98
[21:59] <ali1234> old gaems
[21:59] <ali1234> are old
[21:59] <hamitron> yeh
[22:00] <hamitron> and windows 7 keeps locking my removeable drives
[22:00] <hamitron> !!!!!!!!! *hits computer*
[22:00] <hamitron> brb, reboot
[23:01] <ali1234> hmm
[23:02] <dwatkins> virtualbox is too slow for many games
[23:02] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[23:02] <dwatkins> There's a company called Gog who have been modifying games to run on XP and re-selling them, which (assuming they are paying the proper people) is a neat idea
[23:02] <dwatkins> nn brobostigon, you too
[23:03] <brobostigon> good night dwatkins
[23:03] <hamitron> yeh dwatkins
[23:04] <hamitron> but I don't intend to repurchase them all
[23:04] <hamitron> :)
[23:04] <hamitron> but the general idea is good
[23:05] <ali1234> why? http://imagebin.org/147850
[23:06] <hamitron> I don't get it :/
[23:06] <ali1234> well
[23:06] <ali1234> you see the lines, right?
[23:06] <ali1234> red green and blue
[23:06] <hamitron> yeh
[23:07] <ali1234> red and green fit closely to the blue line
[23:07] <ali1234> except in the marked area
[23:07] <ali1234> where it's massively wrong
[23:07] <ali1234> WHY?????
[23:07] <ali1234> it always goes wrong in that exact place
[23:07] <ali1234> pretty much regardless of the blue input signal
[23:07] <hamitron> oh, ok ;)
[23:09] <ali1234> yeah, but, WHY???
[23:09] <hamitron> you are the clever one!
[23:09] <hamitron> ;/
[23:10] <hamitron> I am just a kid sulking over a few games not playing :)
[23:12] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmLSk3EUiXw&feature=player_detailpage#t=90s
[23:13] <dwatkins> ali1234: hat is that a graph of?
[23:13] <ali1234> dwatkins: a degraded signal
[23:14] <dwatkins> signal from what, ali1234?
[23:14] <ali1234> blue line is the degraded signal, green line is the fast quantized version, red line is an iterative reconstruction algorithm
[23:14] <ali1234> oh the signal is teletext data scraped from a VHS tape
[23:17] <dwatkins> neat
[23:17] <dwatkins> and do you know what the algorithm does?
[23:18] <ali1234> yeah... i wrote it
[23:19] <ali1234> it starts with the quantized output then iterates over each bit x the 8 possible values of the next 3 bits, scales them up to the size of the input, blurs it, then picks the one with the least absolute differences from the input
[23:20] <dwatkins> so can you take the datain that range and manually calculate the values to demonstrate how it should look according to the algorithm?
[23:20] <ali1234> not really
[23:20] <ali1234> i could draw the graph of how i expect it to look... over that area is would be the green line
[23:21] <ali1234> like the rest of the image, the red and green lines should be the same on this section
[23:21] <dwatkins> hmmm, I see what you mean although I don't understand the individual processes
[23:21] <ali1234> i just don't understand why same input gives different output at a certain point in the process
[23:21] <dwatkins> could the small peak afterwards be affecting the red line?
[23:21] <ali1234> it must be a weird bug, like fence post error or something
[23:22] <ali1234> it shouldn't do
[23:22] <ali1234> i mean the algorithm just tries to minimize the area of the area between the red and blue lines
[23:22] <ali1234> if the red line was a small point like the others that area would clearly be smaller
[23:22] <ali1234> (see turquiose shaded area)
[23:23] <dwatkins> could it be there are large values which don't show up there but affect the calculation? have you seen the actual values it uses?
[23:23] <ali1234> could be
[23:24] <ali1234> good idea, i'll check
[23:24] <ali1234> could be integer overflow or something
[23:24] <dwatkins> or just a tiny spike that doesn't shop up on the graph
[23:24]  * dwatkins used to work with gas chromatographs
[23:24] <ali1234> no it can't be that, the graph is not averaged or anything
[23:25] <ali1234> ever available datapoint is displayed
[23:29] <dwatkins> ah ok, I wasn't sure there was more resolution than was shown
[23:30] <ali1234> it has to be a code bug but i don't see how
[23:30] <dwatkins> how about printing the values as it goes along to a logfile so you can see its 'working'?
[23:31] <ali1234> oh
[23:31] <ali1234> derp
[23:31] <dwatkins> oh?
[23:31] <ali1234> the algorithm terminated before processing all data
[23:31] <dwatkins> hmm
[23:31] <ali1234> so the big peak is 3 bytes long, cos it checks 0b111 last
[23:31] <ali1234> and never proceeds after that
[23:31] <dwatkins> aha
[23:32] <ali1234> 3 bits long sorry
[23:32] <dwatkins> sounds like the culprit
[23:32] <ali1234> then the final peak after the big one is just the original quantized data
[23:32] <dwatkins> Linux saves an otherwise disastrous day.
[23:32] <dwatkins> You are using Linux, right? ;)
[23:33] <ali1234> yeah
[23:33] <ali1234> how does it save the day?
[23:33] <dwatkins> hooray
[23:34] <dwatkins> well, you were able to find the problem, it appears
[23:34] <dwatkins> I imagine it might have been more difficult using some black box of an application on an OS which was mainly graphical
[23:35] <ali1234> probably, if such an application even exists
[23:35] <dwatkins> I assume you wrote this
[23:35] <dwatkins> I didn't realise teletext was written to videotape
[23:36] <ali1234> it isn't supposed to be
[23:36] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: yeah
[23:36] <ali1234> it's more of an accident
[23:37] <gordonjcp> video recorders don't do anything special with blanking periods
[23:37] <gordonjcp> although VHS hasn't got the bandwidth to reproduce teletext
[23:37] <ali1234> well i disagree
[23:37] <dwatkins> aha I see
[23:37] <ali1234> it has enough bandwidth to recover at least 95% of the data
[23:38] <ali1234> but it's horribly blurred
[23:38] <gordonjcp> ali1234: depends on the machine
[23:38] <ali1234> but that doesn't matter much because it's originally a binary signal
[23:39] <gordonjcp> ali1234: I guess something with a good clean signal path and no "video enhancement" would give you substantially readable teletext
[23:39] <hamitron> even I don't use VHS tape btw ;)
[23:39] <ali1234> well, no
[23:39] <ali1234> video enhancement doesn't make much difference actually
[23:39] <gordonjcp> something like a Ferguson 3V23/3V24 with nice new sharp heads
[23:39] <dwatkins> I have a box of VHS tapes marked 'for Oxfam'
[23:40] <hamitron> oh, I'd never give my VHS away!!!!
[23:40] <hamitron> if they will even take them
[23:40] <dwatkins> hamitron: these are mostly tapes I have DVDs of or don't want to keep because they're naff, I have other tapes I'm keeping
[23:40] <gordonjcp> ali1234: on all the VHS machines with enhancement I've seen the delay through the enhancer is about the same as a teletext dot period
[23:40] <ali1234> well yes
[23:40] <hamitron> dwatkins: ah :)
[23:40] <ali1234> all the filters just blur up the signal
[23:41] <gordonjcp> ali1234: so you end up with the enhancer actually making a worse mess of the teletext dots, although they superficially sharpen up edges
[23:41] <ali1234> the trick is that if you see "high" you have 11 if you see "low" you have 00 and if you see "medium" you have 10 or 01
[23:41] <gordonjcp> incidentally a Betamax recorder *does* have the horizontal resolution to reproduce teletext, but tends to stuff up the blanking periods ;-)
[23:42] <gordonjcp> there was one recorder I saw that actually decoded teletext subtitles, recoded them at a lower data rate, and then reproduced them internally
[23:42] <AlanBell> ali1234: so this means that you can watch teletext from a dusty old recording of match of the day?
[23:42] <gordonjcp> probably Philips, they were fond of stuff like that
[23:42] <ali1234> AlanBell: sure that's the idea
[23:43] <hamitron> at least you will know the lottery numbers from back then ;/
[23:43] <ali1234> the real key to the algorithm is to take a guess at the signal then blur it like the VCR does then compare to what you have, iteratively, until you find something that passes all teletext parity checks
[23:45] <gordonjcp> you know what I want to have a crack at with modern digital techniques
[23:45] <ali1234> what?
[23:45] <gordonjcp> is the content scrambling system that they used to use on a couple of channels in the 80s
[23:45] <gordonjcp> where each line was pseudorandomly shifted by 0, 1 or 2 ms
[23:45] <gordonjcp> and they used frequency inversion on the audio
[23:46] <ali1234> heh, that should be trivial
[23:46] <gordonjcp> I'm sure I've got some of that on tape somewhere
[23:46] <hamitron> gordonjcp wants that old pr0n? ;/
[23:46] <gordonjcp> well the frequency inversion I can do by creative misuse of software-defined radio
[23:46] <ali1234> i have to deal with a similar problem... the VCR shifts each line by about 2 teletext dots randomly
[23:46] <gordonjcp> ali1234: sounds like a fault
[23:47] <gordonjcp> it may not be regenerating line sync pulses correctly
[23:47] <ali1234> well i tried two VCRs they are the same
[23:47] <gordonjcp> well
[23:47] <gordonjcp> handy hint
[23:47] <gordonjcp> the whole field is written in a single swipe
[23:47] <gordonjcp> so if you can find the header of each teletext line, go by that instead of the sync pulse
[23:47] <KINGOFSWORDS> hi
[23:47] <ali1234> yeah that is what i do
[23:48] <ali1234> well actually i scan with the fast quantizer and take the position of maximum patiryness
[23:48] <KINGOFSWORDS> how can i check if open GL is enabled on my ubuntu lucid plz?
[23:48] <ali1234> *parityness
[23:48] <ali1234> but i do not need to use oscilloscope or anything like that, i just use a wintv to grab the signal
[23:49] <ali1234> so i already get "lines" but with a random shift
[23:50] <ali1234> i think it's more likely to be down to the machine that recorded the tape not the player
[23:50] <gordonjcp> unlikely
[23:50] <gordonjcp> unless the head speed is jiggling about, which it wouldn't be