[15:49] <dorgan> has anyone else been following dell's offering, or lack there of, on Ubuntu Laptop/desktops?
[15:49] <dorgan> for the longest time all you could buy was a desktop...now its only two laptops....one with 10" screen and the other with a 13" screen
[15:49] <dorgan> what gives
[15:54] <maxolasersquad> dorgan: Yeah, it's been pretty week for a while now.
[15:54] <maxolasersquad> Probably low sales.
[15:54] <dorgan> and the 13"  only allows a max of 1GB of ram
[15:54] <dorgan> still....its not like they have to use specialized hardware...well for the most part
[15:55] <maxolasersquad> They do spend some resources ensuring the hardware options they make it available on works.
[15:55] <maxolasersquad> I'd recommend getting a System76 over a Dell if one wants Linux supported hardware.
[15:55] <dorgan> yeah but it cant be that much resources as they only offer 9.10 installed
[15:56] <maxolasersquad> Well, that shows how much work they are willing to put into it.
[15:56] <maxolasersquad> Which is probably proportional to the sales that the option is generating.
[15:57] <maxolasersquad> Dell is in a good position to be THE preferrable computer maker for Linux enthusiasts, but doesn't seem too interested in making it happen.
[15:58] <maxolasersquad> I have a Dell that came with preinstall Linux, and the experience hasn't been as good as I was hoping.
[15:58] <maxolasersquad> Sound support broke two years ago.
[15:58] <maxolasersquad> Compositing didn't work for a release either.
[16:04] <mhall119> maxolasersquad: I tried to restore Vista on a Dell, using the restore disk that came with it, and none of video, sound, wired or wireless worked
[16:05] <mhall119> so....at least they consistently suck at it
[19:20] <tiemonster> true linux users build their own computers...
[19:20] <tiemonster> ...from melted sand
[19:52] <munz-eee> anyone used gnome 3 yet?
[19:53] <munz-eee> mhall119, 
[19:53] <munz-eee> you around?
[20:17] <mhall119> munz-eee: yup
[20:18] <munz-eee> hey have you tried gnome3?
[20:18] <munz-eee> do you like?
[20:18] <munz-eee> i tried it last night... don't think i like it lol
[20:19] <munz-eee> liking unity alot more as time passes
[20:19] <munz-eee> do you know how to configure the gnome3 look?
[20:34] <mhall119> munz-eee: haven't tried gnome 3 yet, no
[20:35] <mhall119> I hear the refactoring work they did is a huge improvement though
[20:35] <mhall119> but as a user, it's hard to separate the under-the-hood improvements from the switch to Gnome Shell
[20:36] <munz-eee> i heard about the improvements also
[20:36] <munz-eee> the stile is cool
[20:36] <munz-eee> *style
[20:37] <munz-eee> have yet to figure out how to customize it though
[20:37] <crashsystems> gnome 3 also requires composting.
[20:40] <munz-eee> here is where i sound stupid:
[20:40] <munz-eee> what is composting?
[20:40] <mhall119> so non-compositing X11 would tell each window what parts they need to draw on the screen
[20:41] <crashsystems> basically it is how things like compiz draw fancy graphical stuff on the screen
[20:41] <munz-eee> ok, that was easy :)
[20:41] <munz-eee> soo it needs 3d?
[20:41] <munz-eee> or decent graphics?
[20:41] <mhall119> with compositing, X11 tells each window to draw itself into a buffer, then the compositing manager takes all the windows and "composites" them into a single image to draw to the screen
[20:41] <crashsystems> basically
[20:42] <crashsystems> if your graphics card was made in the last five years, it should run unity just fine. probably similar limits for gnome 3.
[20:42] <mhall119> compositing is a standard part of 3d graphics processing, whenever you have a 3d game or something, it has objects that get "composited" into a single image for you to see
[20:42] <munz-eee> ohhhh, ok mhall119, that makes sense
[20:42] <mhall119> so 3d graphics cards specifically well suited for this task
[20:42] <munz-eee> ok
[20:43] <mhall119> but 3d graphics cards aren't strictly necessary
[20:43] <munz-eee> ok
[20:43] <mhall119> Xfce and KDE will do compositing entirely in the CPU
[20:43] <mhall119> I think Gnome 3 will too
[20:43] <mhall119> but it's slower, because the CPU isn't designed for that kind of math, while the GPU is
[20:43] <crashsystems> IIRC gnome 3 has some sort of "fallback" mode
[20:44] <mhall119> gnome 3 uses mutter, which I think can do compositing in the CPU
[20:44] <munz-eee> ok, i now understand more
[20:45] <munz-eee> thanks
[20:45] <munz-eee> crashsystems, have you tried gnome3 yet?
[20:46] <munz-eee> i read it breaks unity, so i put it on my 10.10 to try it
[20:47] <munz-eee> wanna customize the UI look but have not found any config applet yet
[20:47] <munz-eee> it does run fast
[20:47] <mhall119> Unity is built on Gnome 2, so replacing that with Gnome 3 is likely to break it, yeah
[20:48] <munz-eee> mhall119, i did sudo apt-get install gnome-shell
[20:48] <munz-eee> then just ran "gnome-shell --replace" from gnome 2
[20:48] <munz-eee> and it killed the gnome 3
[20:49] <munz-eee> and started the gnome3
[20:49] <munz-eee> if i log out and back in gnome 2 works again
[20:49] <munz-eee> but no option at the login screen for gnome3 or gnome-shell
[20:49] <munz-eee> weird
[20:49] <mhall119> that's because you just installed the shell
[20:49] <mhall119> not a session
[20:50] <munz-eee> ohhhh
[20:50] <munz-eee> lol
[20:50] <mhall119> that's like just installing xfce-panel
[20:51] <munz-eee> lol, i thought it would install them side-by-side
[20:51] <munz-eee> and allow me to choose between
[20:52] <mhall119> you'd probably have to install gnome3-session or something to that effect to have the option at login
[20:53] <munz-eee> ok
[20:54] <munz-eee> mhall119, you program right?
[20:54] <mhall119> yup
[20:54] <munz-eee> where is a good place to start learning?
[20:54] <munz-eee> java, python, etc?
[20:55] <mhall119> python now, java, PHP and perl in the past
[20:55] <munz-eee> ok
[20:55] <mhall119> I got a few O'Reilly books when I started off
[20:56] <mhall119> plus online documentation and tutorials
[20:56] <mhall119> once you learn how to program, picking up a new language just requires syntax references
[20:56] <munz-eee> ok
[20:56] <munz-eee> i have been wanting to learn
[20:56] <mhall119> python is an easy one to start with
[20:57] <munz-eee> just not sure where to start, was thinking python b/c ubuntu likes it
[20:57] <munz-eee> and cross platform
[20:57] <mhall119> and there's plenty of online docs and tutorials, you probably won't even need a book unless you just want one
[20:57] <crashsystems> I've not tried gnome3 yet.
[20:58] <munz-eee> ok, how long have you been programming?
[20:58] <mhall119> 12 years
[20:58] <munz-eee> wow, you like?
[20:58] <mhall119> since I was in High School
[20:58] <mhall119> yeah, I love it
[20:58] <mhall119> it's not for everyone, you really have to have a mind for it
[20:59] <mhall119> and it turns out my mind is just right for it
[20:59] <munz-eee> cool