MrChrisDruifGo go go go go go go! :D00:00
MootBotMeeting started at 18:00. The chair is cprofitt.00:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]00:00
cprofitt[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings00:00
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings00:00
cprofittmeeting url00:00
cprofittfor agenda00:00
cprofittwelcome to the UBT team meeting00:00
cprofittall UBT members who are here please say present00:00
cprofittall UBT members who are here please say present00:01
cprofittwell... this does not appear to be a good turnout00:02
MrChrisDruifHmmm, not really no00:02
MrChrisDruifIncluding chair 4 people?00:03
cprofittLets give another few minutes for folks to show up00:04
cprofittone more00:04
cprofitttwo more00:05
cprofittwelcome jledbetter and charlie-tca00:05
* jledbetter waves. Sorry, work, etc.00:05
cprofittno problem00:05
MrChrisDruifAlright, no problem jledbetter :)00:05
cprofittwell,... lets get the meeting off the ground00:05
cprofittI will skep the first proposed topic as none of the new council members appear to be present00:06
cprofitt[TOPIC] new Documentation FG lead00:06
MootBotNew Topic:  new Documentation FG lead00:06
cprofittThe council has acted to temporarily fill the vacany in the Documentation Team with UndiFineD00:07
cprofittHe will fill the role of team lead until we hold an election00:07
cprofittUndiFineD: is eligible to run for the position00:07
MrChrisDruifWho was the previous Doc Lead?00:07
MrChrisDruifAlright :)00:08
ddecatorsounds good to me00:08
cprofittthe next topic was UndiFineD's topic00:08
cprofittthere was quite an extensive discussion on the mailing list about various parts of it00:08
cprofitt[TOPIC] Improving the BT00:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Improving the BT00:08
* ddecator wonders if he's not on the ML for some reason00:09
cprofittI think that as a team we will have to break each element down (on the mailing list) and then work towards having a poll to move forward with a team vote00:09
cprofittthe issues revolve around some negative conotations concerning the words padawan and master00:10
MrChrisDruifTeam vote with 6 present?00:10
cprofittand the relative lack of structure for membership00:10
cprofittwe will not vote here00:10
cprofittwe have not settled on what to vote for00:10
cprofittI do want to frame the discussion a bit00:10
cprofittI do not want to remove 'fun' from being on the team -- we are volunteers00:11
cprofittI do not like that our current choice of labels apparently causes some offense00:11
ddecatorso the idea is to formalize the process more?00:11
cprofittso I think it would be good to gather some fun alternative names we could use00:11
cprofittin place of Master / Padawan00:11
jledbetterfun, hehe00:11
cprofittto be honest the whole concept of master / padawan is really not needed -- to me any member should be capable of guiding another person to be a member00:12
cprofittit just takes a bit of time and knolwedge00:12
cprofittbut I can appreciate the enjoyment factor of having titles00:12
MrChrisDruifcprofitt: Yes, but not everybody wants to take time to do this. I liked having one fixed person00:12
cprofittso I would like to ask everyone to research some 'titles' we can use w/o removing the fun00:13
MrChrisDruifI could talk to when I had questions00:13
cprofittMrChrisDruif: I agree we need a one to one relationship00:13
MrChrisDruifI liked the Guide mentioned in the mailing-list00:13
MrChrisDruifHai DarkwingDuck00:13
jledbetterDitto on guide. That's not "fun" though but I like it all the same:)00:13
MrChrisDruifHowever...Student doesn't do it for me00:13
cprofitt[action] consider alternative names -- gather some options and suggest them on the mailing list with an eye towards voting next meeting00:14
ddecatorGuide and Apprentice00:14
MootBotACTION received:  consider alternative names -- gather some options and suggest them on the mailing list with an eye towards voting next meeting00:14
jledbettercprofitt, Should we mail the list with potential titles? If so, by when?00:14
MrChrisDruifIt refers to much to school00:14
jledbetternm :)00:14
MrChrisDruifddecator: +100:14
charlie-tcabeginner; noobie00:14
tenachddecator: I like that.00:14
cprofittas far as teh suggested timeline and structure...00:14
* MrChrisDruif suggested it already on the mailing-list ;)00:14
cprofittI have to say that we are a team of volunteers00:14
cprofittsome of us have families, jobs and other obligations and those should be respected00:15
cprofittand all levels of participation should be appreciated00:15
cprofittthat said I do like the idea of developing a simple checklist of the basics00:15
cprofittbut the basics have never really been an issue...00:16
cprofittit is the contributions / involvement in the community that is difficult to see at times00:16
MrChrisDruifI had a checklist when I was an Apprentice00:16
ddecatormainly because it can happen anywhere and we're not everywhere (individually)00:16
* cprofitt nods00:16
cprofitt+1 ddecator00:16
MrChrisDruifSupport on IRC is difficult to measure00:17
MrChrisDruifGave me some trouble getting membership :P00:17
cprofittI do feel that having prospective members have to document their activity -- add examples to their wiki or get testimonials to be a worthwhile exercise00:17
cprofittas it prepares them if they wish to eventually pursue Ubuntu Memberships00:18
ddecatorplus it promotes good wiki hygiene00:18
cprofittddecator: +100:18
MrChrisDruifBut some people love to edit their wiki and others just want to help00:18
ddecatoradding examples to your wiki page shouldn't take long00:19
cprofittI think we can vote on having structure -- and have the council work with the team to create a bit more structure00:19
MrChrisDruifAnd, again, putting IRC support on wiki is kinda tricky :P00:19
ddecatorMrChrisDruif: true, but worst case, many of us log the channel and can grep the logs if we're skeptical00:19
cprofittI do think that we need to tell people who give IRC support how they could document that...00:19
cprofittthere are areas that are difficult... and if we want them to count we need to give a guide on how to show that activity00:20
cprofittany other comments on that?00:20
ddecatornone so far00:20
DarkwingDuckdocumenting people you helped in IRC is hard00:21
cprofitt[vote]The UBT Countil in conjunction with the team should develop a potential structure docmuent for prospective members to follow. This document would then be adopted by a vote in a future meeting00:21
MootBotPlease vote on: The UBT Countil in conjunction with the team should develop a potential structure docmuent for prospective members to follow. This document would then be adopted by a vote in a future meeting.00:21
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot00:21
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting00:21
DarkwingDuckdocumenting issues you helped with is simplier00:21
MootBot+1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 100:21
MootBot+1 received from charlie-tca. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 200:22
MootBot+1 received from MrChrisDruif. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 300:22
MootBot+1 received from ddecator. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 400:22
MootBot+1 received from DarkwingDuck. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 500:22
MootBot+1 received from jledbetter. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 600:22
cprofittany more votes?00:22
cprofittlast call for votes00:22
MrChrisDruifNote: correct spelling of course ;)00:22
MootBotFinal result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 600:22
jledbetterhehe MrChrisDruif00:22
cprofitt[agreed]The UBT Countil in conjunction with the team should develop a potential structure docmuent for prospective members to follow. This document would then be adopted by a vote in a future meeting00:23
MootBotAGREED received: The UBT Countil in conjunction with the team should develop a potential structure docmuent for prospective members to follow. This document would then be adopted by a vote in a future meeting00:23
cprofittany other topics?00:23
ddecatorhave a happy natty release everyone :)00:24
cprofittI do want to point out, as it has been an issue for some, that the vote we just took authorized the council to do some work. The council does not make decisions unless the team authorized it00:24
cprofittalright since we have no more topics... I would like to go back to an original topic since DarkwingDuck is here00:25
cprofitt[topic]New council members - plans00:25
MootBotNew Topic: New council members - plans00:25
cprofittDarkwingDuck: please tell us some of your plans for the UBT00:25
cprofittor things you would like to see00:25
DarkwingDuckwell, ever since the Natty UDS i have wanted to see better interaction with the "main" devel teams in Ubuntu00:26
MrChrisDruifThe document (which will me made with help from the team) will only be adopted with a vote. It was properly defined the vote :)00:26
DarkwingDuckeither in docs, motu and others00:26
ddecatori wonder if our collaboration with the bugsquad can act as a guinea pig for this00:27
* DarkwingDuck nods00:27
DarkwingDuckim also in fairly deep with the guys who write the system docs00:27
DarkwingDucknot just kin kubuntu but all the docs00:28
ddecatorthat'd be a good thing for beginners to get involved with00:28
DarkwingDuckas a member of the documentation committers i would be more then happy to review and approve patches or docs00:29
MrChrisDruifsystem docs? As in man pages with programs?00:29
DarkwingDuckbut, the intergration and maybe becoming a "traiining ground" is something i can see us doing00:29
* ddecator nods00:29
cprofittDarkwingDuck: sounds like we need to get the Doc Committer team lead to approve you as a Mentor for documentation FG00:29
DarkwingDuckMrChrisDruif: and the help files that ship with the system00:30
DarkwingDuckcprofitt: im game now that the doc freeze for natty is in effect00:31
DarkwingDuckbut, my plans are to take what ive learned in other teams and seeing how we can train people to move beyond the BT scope00:32
MrChrisDruifGood plan DarkwingDuck00:32
DarkwingDuckand maybe even have new people who goto bug squad or motu teams get sent to us for training00:32
* MrChrisDruif is distracted by #lubuntu channel00:32
DarkwingDuckthere is an untapped potential for training here and we are in the perfect position00:33
DarkwingDuckto fill a small void00:33
DarkwingDuckthe BT helped me get ready for teams with deadlines and i think i can help pass that on00:34
DarkwingDucksmall dreams. :) back to you cprofitt00:35
cprofittthanks DarkwingDuck00:36
MrChrisDruifThe whole of Ubuntu is deadline based00:36
cprofittalright... I would like to thank everyone who attended the meeting tonight00:36
cprofittHave a great night everyone00:36
MrChrisDruifThanks cprofitt :)00:36
MootBotMeeting finished at 18:36.00:36
jledbettercprofitt, Thank you :)00:36
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dokowas there a mumble before? didn't hear anything16:04
stgraberdoko: yep16:04
robbiewdoko: yup16:04
MootBotMeeting started at 10:04. The chair is robbiew.16:04
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:04
robbiew[TOPIC] Lightning Round16:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Lightning Round16:05
barrybug 748104 (django-ajax-selects ftbfs), bug 748089 (gmobilemedia ftbfs), bug 727649 (matplotlib ftbfs), bug 747236 and bug 719211 (apache-openid ftbfs & conversion to dh_python2), bug 717843 (python-imaging crasher), bug 752220 (aptdaemon import error), bug 759205 and bug 691841 (lazr.restful), bug 758037 (pyopenssl fix); python issue 11715 (python build on multiarch), pep 396; udd stakeholders meeting; app developer week class on16:06
barryunittesting.  done.16:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 748104 in django-ajax-selects (Ubuntu) "ftbfs with python2.7" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74810416:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 748089 in gmobilemedia (Ubuntu) "FTBFS in natty" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74808916:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 727649 in python2.7 (Ubuntu) "python2.7-dbg crashed with SIGSEGV in PyDict_GetItemString()" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/72764916:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 747236 in apache-openid (Ubuntu) "ftbfs with python2.7" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74723616:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 719211 in apache-openid (Ubuntu) "import -c 'apache_openid' fails" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71921116:06
robbiewawesome...just what I like to see!16:07
robbiewthnx barry16:07
mvobugfixes, bugfixes, bugfixes!16:07
dokofiled the remaining ftbfs reports (although lp times out showing them),  fixing build failures, fix gcc-4.5 ftbfs (somebody turned on hard errors for pointer conversations on the buildds *after* the test rebuild), prepare and start gcc-4.6 test rebuild16:07
mvoApt-clone: review/merge lp:~ev/apt-clone/739489 (thanks!), rework protect_installed hanlding for restore-new-distro mode16:09
mvoApt: fix bug when parsing --print-foreign-architectures output, merge fixes from debina-sid, upload new version, run unattended-upgrades even if apt-get update returned a error16:09
mvoAptdaemon: prepare new upload, merge lp:~mvo/aptdaemon/relax-lintian-checks as distro patch, test, upload new version, merge fixes from juliank (thanks!)16:09
mvoCommand-not-found: start extraction on frei, updated to include ports architectures (#533031)16:09
mvoPython-apt: perpare merge python-apt,review/merge changes by juliank (thanks!), test/merge multiarch patch16:09
mvoRnr-server: send RT about http -> https redirect for the anoymous API16:09
mvoSoftare-center: fix install-buy-something test, work with ISD, branch review/merges, look at crash (IOError) with multiprocessing and reviews, weblive work with stgraber16:09
mvoSynaptic: add basic multiarch support16:09
mvoUnattended-upgrades: add option to auto-fix interrupted dpkg runs, debug/fix crash with overly long control files (LP: #724994)16:09
mvoUpdate-maanger: uploading new version, add mini proxy to properly test the proxy download feature, ensure on EOL->EOL upgrade the users see a EOL release accountment text that warns about upgrading to a EOL page, merge lp:~evfool/update-manager/fix727069, work on end-of-life code, integrate new webpage, write some more formal tests, work on more reliable ssh detection (#744995), write debsums_lite.py post-upgrade test (not that useful unfort16:09
mvounately as "locale" fails that test16:09
robbiewmvo: as usual...slacking16:10
* mvo pats his gtimelog logs16:10
robbiewcjwatson: ? ...kidding :P16:11
jhuntMore Upstart Cookbook updates. Cleared inbox. Rest of time spent16:11
jhuntdiagnosing another upstart chroot issue - taken a long time to determine16:11
jhuntthat problem appears to be related to pbuilder/chroot build env.16:11
* robbiew <3 the upstart cookbook!16:12
evFixing bugs, and doing a lot of bug gardening.  Ubiquity fixes: 726740, 759401, 758236, 652852, 745607, 757208, 752372, 751145, 744938, 745138, m-a: 739400, apt-clone: pushed pyflakes into the test harness and fixed some crasher bugs.  Did my patch pilot time. Deep in bug 664533 at the moment.16:12
* mvo hugs ev16:12
robbiewpsurbhi: ?16:13
evthere's a bit more than that actually16:13
evbut those are the ones with bug numbers16:13
* ev hugs back16:13
evthanks for the merges16:13
psurbhi*) fixes two small code bugs in mountall16:13
psurbhi*) Added a private dbus server to mountall, tested - submitted for design/code review (spent some time here in debugging a mountall segfault in chroot, and the client app in initramfs - turned out to be a wrong job start clause :-/)16:13
psurbhi*) adding a test script to upstart - testing the test script.16:13
robbiewpsurbhi: thx16:14
cjwatson - Fixed livecd-rootfs regression caused by kernel perms change16:15
cjwatson - Minor tweak to improve iSCSI installation, though something's still broken16:15
cjwatson - Fixed rootskel kernel detection on VMware (745947)16:15
cjwatson - apt-setup re-disable partner (744982)16:15
cjwatson - Fixed rescue-mode on btrfs16:15
cjwatson - Various GRUB backports, esp. btrfs; add grub-mount to improve os-prober16:15
cjwatson - OEM locale handling (741304)16:15
cjwatson - gfxpayload blacklisting tweaks (757603, 758328)16:16
cjwatson - Ubiquity keyboard fixes (758584)16:16
cjwatson - and generally walking through beta-2 bugs16:16
cjwatsonTo do:16:16
cjwatson - GRUB aufs failure (700910)16:16
cjwatson - console-setup deadkeys upgrade (742683)16:16
cjwatson - GRUB background colour handling (696915)16:16
cjwatson - Wubi backports and testing16:16
cjwatson - Make partman reuse existing BIOS Boot Partition (746313)16:16
robbiewcjwatson: thnx16:17
robbiew[TOPIC] Natty Bugs16:18
MootBotNew Topic:  Natty Bugs16:18
robbiewdamn it16:19
evjeez, amateur hour16:19
robbiew[Lightning - Part 2]16:19
robbiewev: YOU be quiet16:19
robbiewstgraber: ?16:19
stgraberyeah !16:19
stgraberA bit of work on AWSTrial, usual meetings (ARB, DMB), otherwise mostly ISO testing and bug fixing: bug 759080, bug 759115, bug 745532, bug 758732, bug 752393, bug 628906, bug 74501116:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 759080 in Ubuntu "DHCP Server is not installed with Edubuntu LTSP Installer" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/75908016:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 759115 in ltsp (Ubuntu) "ltsp thin client kernel error - Could not find kernel image: vmlinuz" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/75911516:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 745532 in pam (Ubuntu Natty) "fails to restart (not running) gdm on maverick->natty upgrade" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74553216:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 758732 in python-apt (Ubuntu Natty) "enable_component() does not enable components for deb-src lines" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/75873216:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 752393 in lsb (Ubuntu Natty) "lsb init scripts show line buffering problems on bootup" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/75239316:19
* mvo hugs stgraber16:20
robbiew[TOPIC] Natty Bugs16:22
MootBotNew Topic:  Natty Bugs16:22
robbiewthat's a bit stale16:23
robbiewone sec16:23
MootBotLINK received:  http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone=3356916:23
barryi have a fix for bug 758037 ready to go after beta release16:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 758037 in pyopenssl (Ubuntu Natty) "pyopenssl breaks all ssl apps because of changes in python 2.7" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/75803716:24
robbiewwhew...ubiquity mentioned all ova' da place16:25
robbiewthough I question the severity on some of these :P16:26
robbiew[TOPIC] Oneiric Planning16:26
MootBotNew Topic:  Oneiric Planning16:26
evyeah, they're not all very major16:26
evI've been milestoneing some bugs to just avoid losing track of them, with the hope of getting them in for natty16:27
robbiewno worries on my end16:27
MootBotLINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/OneiricPlanning#Ideas16:27
robbiewI need to add info from the mailing-list conversations and put this stuff into something a bit more easy to parse16:28
robbiewwill do that this week16:28
MootBotNew Topic: AOB/GoodNews?16:28
cjwatsonsorry, on bugs: if anyone is short of work for natty and doesn't have anything off the beta-2 or final bug lists to tackle, please look at the ftbfs list16:28
cjwatsondoko, do you have the current link there?16:28
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110329-natty.html16:29
mvoI got a branch for the archive-crawler by a contributor that massively improves the extraction of the menu-data icons16:29
* mvo loves our community16:29
dokothe ld-no-add-needed are not build failures anymore, because ld --no-add-needed isn't the default anymore, saving us ~80 packages to fix16:30
dokowill be re-enabled for oneiric16:30
cjwatsondoko: thanks16:31
dokohmm, I doubt the list is up to date. pinged wgrant16:31
robbiewanything else?16:31
cjwatsonhaving one of my "what are we missing" moments16:32
cjwatsonthe bugs we're hearing about at the moment aren't that bad, AFAICT16:32
dokowell, the extra errors on the buildds ... I assume we'll have to catch these somehow16:32
dokolet's see how much of these show up with the gcc-4.6 rebuild16:32
cjwatsonshould be possible to scan build logs for the same regex that launchpad-buildd uses16:33
Ampelbeincjwatson, doko: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ftbfs+natty+-no-add-needed&field.tags_combinator=ALL should be a list of open ftbfs without ld-no-add-needed16:33
cjwatsonalbeit slow as usual16:33
dokoAmpelbein: these queries time out for me unfortunately16:33
dokoAmpelbein: how many issues does this query show?16:34
Ampelbeindoko, 39516:34
dokohmm. maybe the list *is* up to date16:35
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:36.16:36
robbiewthat conversation isn't really meeting specific ;)16:36
robbiewthanks all!16:36
barrythanks robbiew!16:36
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