[01:00] <ojwb> are there any public stats for comparative usage for the various ubuntu releases?
[01:02] <mwhudson> i doubt it
[01:02] <mwhudson> there aren't any public stats for the usage of ubuntu at all, afaik and the private ones are pretty much guesses i think :)
[01:04] <ojwb> just package downloads normalised would be handy
[01:04] <ojwb> I'm curious is there's much point backporting packages to hardy now, for example
[01:07] <ajmitch> ojwb: it's a bit hard to get even download stats, given the number of mirrors around
[01:07] <ajmitch> I don't know if the 'official' mirrors supply stats back to canonical or not & even then you can have further caching
[01:08] <ajmitch> but yeah, I doubt there's a lot of point backporting to hardy
[01:08] <ojwb> yeah, though for my purposes "quite a few people" vs "practically nobody" is useful
[01:08] <ojwb> i gave up on dapper some time ago
[01:09] <ajmitch> hardy should be EOL on desktop support soon
[01:09] <ojwb> yes, though this is xapian which is widely used on server
[01:09] <ojwb> +s
[01:09] <ajmitch> how hard is it to backport for hardy as well?
[02:20] <ojwb> it already supports it, but there are a few special cases which are for hardy only now
[02:20]  * ojwb wonders if there are PPA stats
[02:20] <ojwb> I can't see an obvious link in the interface
[02:20] <ojwb> be a nice guide for cases like this
[02:21] <ajmitch> http://blog.launchpad.net/cool-new-stuff/tracking-ppa-download-statistics
[02:21] <ojwb> that was quick
[02:23] <ojwb> hmm the linked to blog is frustrating
[02:23] <ojwb> tells you how to manipulate a ppa object
[02:23] <ojwb> but not how to create it
[02:23] <ojwb> which seems to be the hard part...
[02:25]  * ojwb bookmarks it anywya
[02:35] <ajmitch> I've managed to get a ppa record & the build records by a bit of hacking around
[02:35] <ojwb> yeah, don't really have time for that this week - off to the UK tomorrow
[02:36] <ajmitch> e.g. lp.people['ajmitch'].getPPAByName(name='ppa') gets the first ppa I have (and probably the only one)
[02:37] <ajmitch> hopefully it's a nice, uneventful flight :)
[02:37]  * ojwb wonders what an lp is
[02:37] <ojwb> hopefully
[02:37] <ajmitch> from launchpadlib.launchpad import Launchpad
[02:38] <ajmitch> lp = Launchpad.login_anonymously('staging')
[02:40] <ajmitch> then with the ppa, I cheated & used getPublishedBinaries()[0].getDownloadCount() to get something to show :)
[02:40] <ajmitch> I think there's a better way than looking at wach published binary, but I haven't used this
[02:41] <ojwb> aha
[02:41] <ojwb> from launchpadlib.launchpad import Launchpad - needs more mentions of launchpad I feel
[02:41] <ajmitch> probably
[02:41] <ojwb> hmm, 0
[02:42] <ojwb> nobody loves your first binary
[02:42] <ajmitch> it's old, probably predates the stats
[02:42] <ajmitch> & I was using it only for build testing in the PPA
[02:44] <ojwb> ah
[02:44] <ojwb> 25!
[02:45] <ajmitch> you're getting somewhere with it?
[02:45] <ojwb> ish
[02:46] <ajmitch> looks like you can get stats per day
[02:55] <ojwb> for b in lp.people['xapian-backports'].getPPAByName(name='ppa').getPublishedBinaries(): print "%d\t%s %s" % (b.getDownloadCount(), b.binary_package_name, b.binary_package_version)
[02:57] <ojwb> doesn't work for the xapian-1.2 ppa for some reason
[03:08] <ajmitch> ojwb: what do you get?
[03:09] <ojwb> oh, it works sometimes
[03:09] <ojwb> other times: TypeError: 'int' object is unsubscriptable
[03:09] <ojwb> i guess that's flakey server or something
[03:09] <ojwb> me speak english good
[03:10] <ojwb> seems to work the second time in quick succession pretty reliably
[03:10] <ojwb> I guess the first may pull data into cache
[03:13] <ojwb> looks like hardy is about 10% of lucid
[03:13] <ojwb> where lucid is 100 ish
[03:13] <ojwb> varies a lot by the subpackage though
[03:14] <ajmitch> might be useful to graph it & see how many of the hardy downloads are recent comared to lucid
[03:15] <ojwb> this was for the 1.2.4 release, which was december I think
[12:32]  * mwhudson_ gets 403s from nz.archive.ubuntu.com ... whut
[20:27] <ibeardslee> morning
[20:49] <ojwb> morning
[21:04] <hads> Mornin
[21:38] <ajmitch> morning
[21:41] <Atamira> mornin
[21:43] <ibeardslee> sigh
[21:43] <Atamira> whats the matter ibeardslee ?
[21:43] <ibeardslee> politicians
[21:44] <Atamira> heh. they're all terrible
[21:44] <Atamira> according to forbes, we're the 8th in the world for a corrupt govt...with iceland and finland
[21:45] <ibeardslee> the problems is they can make choices about what the right thing to do is
[21:48] <timClicks> i'm pretty confused that things have come to this
[21:48] <timClicks> especially b/c officials and politicians have been told of the negative consequences
[21:48] <Atamira> oops. cant find the article..i might be wrong on that
[21:49] <timClicks> Atamira, I think you'll find we're the least corrupt country
[21:49] <ibeardslee> it seems (without getting as crass as I really could) that they are starting to line us up to bend over for the TPPA
[21:49] <timClicks> from Transparency International
[21:49] <Atamira> we're mild compared to some of the others in the world thats true
[21:49] <Atamira> we were debating who was the worse
[21:50] <Atamira> the sth africans at work reckon africa is the most corrupt
[21:50] <timClicks> I know that there people within MED & MFAT that are concerned
[21:50] <Atamira> technically its somalia..which i guess is close
[21:50] <timClicks> but, Wellington's very smal
[21:50] <timClicks> and leaks can be career destroying
[21:51] <ibeardslee> not soverignty destroying?
[21:53] <timClicks> this is a trend that has been going on for a long time
[21:53] <timClicks> many trade agreements are taking place internationally
[21:54] <timClicks> actually, WIPO (World IP Organisation) agreements didn't really suit the USA
[21:54] <timClicks> so they created TRIPS
[21:54] <timClicks> I don
[21:54] <ojwb> no, you tim
[21:55] <timClicks> I don't have too much time this morning to go over the whole thing
[21:55] <timClicks> But, in terms of sovereignty.. I wouldn't fight the battle on that front
[21:55] <timClicks> Politicians are advised by economists
[21:55] <timClicks> who are advised by economic models
[21:56] <timClicks> that give way to empirical data
[21:56] <timClicks> Therefore, if the right data can get to the policy advisers, then the legislation will change
[21:58] <timClicks> There's increasing evidence that strict IP laws protect the businesses that know how and are able to utilise those monopolies
[21:59] <timClicks> But, they tend to make a country worse off
[21:59] <timClicks> For example, take copyright
[22:00] <timClicks> the argument goes that we need a 100+ year monopoly in order to incentivise creative works
[22:00] <timClicks> however, I think that confuses the incentive to create a work from the incentive to distribute it
[22:01] <timClicks> distribution costs are extremely low for digital content
[22:01] <timClicks> therefore, they're mostly irrelevant
[22:02] <timClicks> which means, we should only provide the term of the copyright that would incentivise the *creation* of the work
[22:02] <timClicks> that's the hard bit - getting a new novel written
[22:02] <timClicks> once it's written, it's easy to reproduce
[22:03] <timClicks> we need to create a system that does enough to get creators rewarded for the first bit. Once that's done, what matters is that consumers can access a work at the lowest cost possible (which increases consumer surplus, e.g. economic win)
[22:09] <ojwb> and there's a lot of work which is based on out of copyright stuff, so out of copyright likely has economic benefits
[22:09] <ojwb> not for the original author, but for the economy, probably
[22:10] <ojwb> endless sherlock holmes inspired stuff, for example
[23:08] <snail> morning all