| ScottL | lots of mail flying around on the list these days | 01:05 |
|---|---|---|
| ailo | ScottL, Ladish coming to Ubuntu is good news, I guess | 01:12 |
| ailo | Did you manage to get the plymouth in? | 01:13 |
| ScottL | ailo, i haven't pushed the changes yet, i wanted to discuss one of the notes i got with TheMuso first to make sure there isn't a problem again | 01:26 |
| ScottL | it will be done in time for final release through | 01:26 |
| ailo | ok | 01:30 |
| ScottL | TheMuso, when you get a moment can we talk about what i pushed to ubuntustudio-look ? | 02:36 |
| ScottL | ailo, are you still up? | 03:35 |
| ailo | ScottL, I am. Actually just got up. Living like a vampire a bit | 03:55 |
| TheMuso | ScottL: Sure whats up? | 03:55 |
| ScottL | TheMuso, is there a simple way to pull from the bzr branch and test build plymouth-theme-ubuntustudio? | 03:56 |
| TheMuso | ScottL: Yes. Pull the branch, make your changes, commit, and run "bzr builddeb -S --native" to get a package, test build and test. | 03:56 |
| ScottL | TheMuso, i actually already pushed, i checked the debdiff to see what was missing, also checked the bzr diff, but just wanted to make sure | 03:57 |
| TheMuso | ok | 03:57 |
| ScottL | but i can still run "bzr builddeb -S --native" to get the package right? | 03:57 |
| ScottL | (but i will write down the commands for next time though) | 03:58 |
| ScottL | ailo, i'm really sorry, but i don't remember right now why i asked if you were here :/ i've already had four other things come up | 03:59 |
| ailo | ScottL, Well, I'll be here if you need me | 03:59 |
| ScottL | ailo, incidentally, i did just get done talking to paul :) | 04:00 |
| paultag | heyya :) | 04:00 |
| ScottL | in another channel that it :) | 04:00 |
| paultag | ScottL: lies! :) | 04:00 |
| ailo | Hi paultag | 04:00 |
| ScottL | i was telling him some of the changes coming for 11.10 | 04:00 |
| paultag | heyya ailo :D | 04:00 |
| ailo | There's a lot going on for sure | 04:01 |
| ScottL | going upstair to test build the plymouth-theme-ubuntu package one last time....just to make sure | 04:01 |
| ScottL | ailo, yeah, i listed | 04:01 |
| ScottL | 1. new desktop environment | 04:01 |
| ScottL | 2. new UI | 04:01 |
| ScottL | 3. kernel with irq threading | 04:01 |
| ScottL | 4. -lowlatency in repos (hopefully) | 04:02 |
| ScottL | i forgot 5. new website might happen :) | 04:02 |
| paultag | sweet :) | 04:02 |
| ailo | I think all of those we have to do | 04:02 |
| ailo | And about 4. -lowlatency. Let's not hesitate at all | 04:02 |
| ailo | -generic is fine, but we need something we can count on, and that is -lowlatency | 04:03 |
| ScottL | oh yeah, 6. we are updating documentation | 04:03 |
| ailo | So, no matter if -generic can be ok, or even just as good many times, better to push for what we know will absolutely work | 04:03 |
| ScottL | ailo, as soon as alessio tells me 2.6.39 is stable and has his git in order i'll build the -lowlatency and start bugging persia | 04:03 |
| ailo | Yeah. Documentation too | 04:04 |
| ailo | In many ways, I'm feeling 11.10 is going to be year one. | 04:04 |
| ailo | A turning poing in almost every Ubuntu Studio specific area, if we pull it off | 04:05 |
| holstein | w00t! | 04:06 |
| paultag | BBL, heading home | 04:07 |
| paultag | TTYS | 04:07 |
| ailo | later paultag | 04:08 |
| ScottL | "a turning point", i'm going to add that to cory's oreinic planning page (say that three times fast) | 04:11 |
| ScottL | i was adding things like "a new beginning" "not the ubuntu studio you knew" | 04:11 |
| ScottL | oh, and that bzr builddeb was a little confusing getting the syntax right | 04:12 |
| ScottL | i had to install "bzr-builddeb" but then i had to type "bzr builddeb" | 04:12 |
| ailo | ScottL, Could you pass the link to Cory's page, please? | 04:16 |
| ailo | Just want to see what's cooking | 04:17 |
| ScottL | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OneiricConcepts | 04:18 |
| ScottL | not much in it yet, just some of my ramblings :P | 04:18 |
| ailo | ScottL, About dark themes. Have to say KXStudio has a very goo theme. It's actually practical. I like Mcinnis idea to have three variants. One fully dark, one semi dark, and one light | 04:27 |
| ailo | At least have two variants | 04:28 |
| ScottL | i like the idea as well | 04:30 |
| ScottL | i worry though because i haven't seen mac around lately or heard from him in email | 04:31 |
| ailo | ScottL, Yeah. | 04:37 |
| holstein | ailo ScottL | 05:15 |
| holstein | did you guys catch that email? | 05:15 |
| holstein | https://picasaweb.google.com/jorge.g.mare/UbuntuStudioArtwork# | 05:15 |
| holstein | is that kokito? | 05:15 |
| ailo | That's looking pretty fine to me | 05:16 |
| holstein | its bumpin | 05:17 |
| holstein | i like it a lot :) | 05:17 |
| ailo | The old ideas became fresh again too | 05:17 |
| ailo | It looks great, and it looks practical too | 05:18 |
| holstein | and it looks polised and almost finished :) | 05:18 |
| holstein | polished* | 05:19 |
| holstein | ailo: i thought about putting a new thread together | 05:21 |
| holstein | about XFCE | 05:21 |
| holstein | im going to see about building an iso first | 05:22 |
| holstein | if not | 05:22 |
| holstein | just link to puredyne | 05:22 |
| holstein | and suggest that we look at XFCE seriously | 05:22 |
| holstein | and comment on it | 05:22 |
| holstein | seems like the interest is there | 05:22 |
| ailo | holstein, I think cory was going to put together an iso | 05:22 |
| holstein | i think we should have a thread of people who have actually use it | 05:22 |
| holstein | ailo: OH cool | 05:22 |
| holstein | i thought i read that he wanted someone else to do that | 05:23 |
| ailo | One thing that I don't like about everyone voting for XFCE is that either I don't find their arguments valid, or they have no argument at all. | 05:23 |
| ailo | I don't mind XFCE, but I'd like a clear motivation | 05:23 |
| ailo | And that is what the discussion should be about, in my opinion | 05:23 |
| ailo | So, when someone says, I like XFCE. That's just a personal opinion. Not an argument | 05:24 |
| holstein | right | 05:24 |
| holstein | thats what the idea of the thread was | 05:24 |
| holstein | try this iso | 05:24 |
| holstein | and comment | 05:24 |
| holstein | otherwise, you dont really have a proper first-hand opinion | 05:25 |
| holstein | ailo: i think i know the comment you are talking about | 05:25 |
| holstein | something like 'ive heard xfce is just as heavy as gnome' | 05:25 |
| holstein | i mean, lets run it | 05:25 |
| holstein | open top | 05:26 |
| holstein | and see | 05:26 |
| ailo | It's not any one comment. But, the idea that XFCE would be less resource intensive does not seem valid to me | 05:26 |
| holstein | ailo: i really like that aspect you have brought to the team | 05:26 |
| holstein | the 'oh yeah? lets test it' attitude | 05:26 |
| holstein | i appreciate that, and learn a lot from the testing we've done | 05:26 |
| ailo | Well, unfortunately our testing is a little amateurish and incomplete. Too few testers to begin with, but it's like I heard Linus say about the 200 number code, not very politely: Numbers talk, Bullshit walks | 05:28 |
| ailo | And, when it comes to the test results, kernel hackers and all that. I'll trust my results first | 05:28 |
| ailo | 200 line* code | 05:28 |
| holstein | we have a challenging area | 05:29 |
| holstein | with audio devices | 05:29 |
| holstein | i mean, you and i dont have common test cases | 05:29 |
| holstein | and we're really into testing things | 05:29 |
| ailo | It's hard to know exactly how to test before hand, since what we are interested is not the same as what regular Ubuntu devs are interested in | 05:30 |
| holstein | but, i think you are helping get in the neighborhood of complete results | 05:30 |
| holstein | with time, and more testers | 05:30 |
| holstein | Kokito: hey | 05:31 |
| holstein | is that you on the list? | 05:31 |
| Kokito | hey holstein :) | 05:31 |
| holstein | https://picasaweb.google.com/jorge.g.mare/UbuntuStudioArtwork#5594894720374163314 | 05:31 |
| holstein | ^ | 05:31 |
| Kokito | yes :) | 05:31 |
| holstein | awesome | 05:31 |
| ailo | Looks great | 05:31 |
| Kokito | thanks :) | 05:31 |
| holstein | yeah, im super stoked Kokito | 05:31 |
| Kokito | still not very happy myself, but I will get there :) | 05:32 |
| holstein | slick and polished lookiing | 05:32 |
| holstein | Kokito: thanks for your time | 05:32 |
| Kokito | I need screenshots now | 05:32 |
| Kokito | holstein: I enjoy doing this :) | 05:32 |
| Kokito | I have a question: is the US release cycle the same as Ubuntu? | 05:34 |
| holstein | Kokito: basically | 05:35 |
| holstein | i think we might be able to have a bit more wiggle room | 05:35 |
| holstein | if needed | 05:35 |
| holstein | but, we should be right on track | 05:35 |
| Kokito | so US becomes available the same day as Ubuntu then | 05:36 |
| holstein | yup | 05:36 |
| Kokito | ok | 05:36 |
| Kokito | is there a place where one can track US-specific commits? | 05:37 |
| holstein | Kokito: probably, but i think ScottL would know that best | 05:37 |
| holstein | Kokito: i just got notifications of ISO's that were built | 05:37 |
| holstein | to be tested | 05:37 |
| holstein | but thats not what you want right? | 05:37 |
| Kokito | not exactly | 05:38 |
| holstein | you want ubuntustudio specific package build status? | 05:38 |
| holstein | stati.. | 05:38 |
| holstein | staticies | 05:38 |
| Kokito | no, I want to be able to see US-specific commits | 05:38 |
| Kokito | assuming there are any :) | 05:38 |
| holstein | i think so | 05:39 |
| Kokito | or is US just a re-packaged Ubuntu? | 05:39 |
| holstein | might have missed ScottL for the nite though | 05:39 |
| Kokito | np holstein | 05:39 |
| Kokito | no rush :) | 05:39 |
| ailo | Kokito, US has it's own desktop. It's similar to Xubuntu and other derivatives in that it share the base, but has it's own set of packages | 05:40 |
| Kokito | hi ailo :) | 05:40 |
| ailo | hi | 05:41 |
| Kokito | ailo: is there such as thing as an US repository? | 05:41 |
| ailo | No | 05:41 |
| ailo | It's in the main repo | 05:41 |
| holstein | not seperate | 05:41 |
| Kokito | ok, I see | 05:41 |
| ailo | Kokito, All the Ubuntu specific packages start with ubuntustudio-* | 05:41 |
| ailo | Kokito, And most of them are meta packages | 05:41 |
| Kokito | understood | 05:42 |
| ailo | Kokito, But, it won't be exactly the same if you install Ubuntu first and the Ubuntu Studio packages, even though it works of course | 05:42 |
| Kokito | now you made me curious :) | 05:42 |
| Kokito | what is the difference? | 05:42 |
| ailo | As I have understood, getting packages uploaded need to be done by contact with MOTU, or trying to upload to Debian | 05:43 |
| holstein | theme-ing is a big difference | 05:43 |
| holstein | ubuntustudio-desktop | 05:43 |
| holstein | not ubuntu-desktop | 05:43 |
| holstein | the look and feel | 05:43 |
| Kokito | are the default packages also difference? | 05:43 |
| ailo | Kokito, Well, if you already installed Ubuntu, it will have certain things installed, that won't be uninstalled if you install Ubuntu Studio packages | 05:43 |
| holstein | but a package here and there too | 05:43 |
| holstein | other than just the audio stuff | 05:43 |
| ailo | It will probably consume more RAM then a fresh install of Ubuntu Studio | 05:44 |
| holstein | the base is more similar now though right ailo ? | 05:44 |
| ailo | holstein, I think Ubuntu Studio is older, in a way. But, without Gnome, there is not much difference I believe. | 05:45 |
| ailo | Kokito, ubuntustudio-desktop is quite different from ubuntu-desktop' | 05:45 |
| ailo | I think that is the main difference | 05:46 |
| Kokito | I see | 05:46 |
| ailo | network manager is only now being included | 05:46 |
| Kokito | has US the leeway to add apps that are not available in the Ubuntu repos? | 05:46 |
| * Kokito can't access https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio | 05:47 | |
| ailo | Yes. Those would be: theming, ubuntustudio-controls | 05:47 |
| ailo | Don't know if there are any more | 05:47 |
| ailo | So, there isn't very much | 05:47 |
| ailo | theming = ubuntustudio-looks (and it's dependencies) | 05:48 |
| Kokito | aha | 05:49 |
| Kokito | what about the kernel? I read all these messages about rt and lowlatency, so was under the impression that US used a different kernel. is that the case? | 05:50 |
| ailo | There isn't really a need for any more than that, except for multimedia packages that aren't in Debian yet. And of those, I don't know if any have been uploaded to Ubuntu's repos on US's account | 05:50 |
| holstein | hopefully the generic kernel will be up to the task soon | 05:50 |
| holstein | but -lowlatency should be in the repos for us i think | 05:50 |
| ailo | Kokito, There used to be an -rt kernel, uploaded by the Ubuntu Studio team. ScottL will try uploading -lowlatency for next release | 05:51 |
| holstein | aboganI has a PPA for those kernels | 05:51 |
| ailo | For next release I will be looking at if there is something missing in Debian that Ubuntu Studio could have use for, so if something isn't there, I will probably try get it in. Sound system specific stuff in that case | 05:52 |
| ailo | I would use KXStudio as an example as well as others. | 05:53 |
| * Kokito is checking out what KXStudio is | 05:56 | |
| Kokito | interesting... | 05:57 |
| Kokito | are there any significant differences between US and KX from a user POV? | 05:57 |
| ailo | Kokito, The guy developing KXStudio, falktx is looking to become more involved in Ubuntu Studio as well, and he hangs around here quite a lot | 05:58 |
| Kokito | cool! | 05:58 |
| ailo | Kokito, There are a lot of differences. falktx is probably using everything that the linux audio world has to offer | 05:58 |
| ailo | He's trying to simplify and abstract things | 05:59 |
| Kokito | that sounds like a good idea | 06:00 |
| ailo | I don't have a lot of experience with that distro yet, so I would want to see how stable it is and so on | 06:00 |
| ailo | But, there are some things that are definitely worth doing. | 06:01 |
| Kokito | and looks like there can be a lot of potential synergies with US | 06:01 |
| ailo | He does some coding too, and has developed some software | 06:02 |
| ailo | For hosting plugins, session handling etc | 06:02 |
| holstein | jack runs at login on KX | 06:05 |
| ailo | Right, and pulseaudio is a client for jack. No need to work with qjackctl. A lot of the apps are newish for Linux veterans. I think that's a part of the problem for me. Too much of a big step at first, so I for one need to dig in a bit to find out what's really going on | 06:06 |
| holstein | yeah, i like stopping and starting JACK | 06:11 |
| holstein | using different profiles | 06:11 |
| holstein | but, i use the hell out of falks KXstudio PPA's :) | 06:11 |
| Kokito | man, the ubuntu wiki is really sloooooooooooooow | 06:16 |
| Kokito | oh oh, Internal Server Error | 06:17 |
| * abogani waves all | 07:15 | |
| Kokito | hey abogani | 07:31 |
| Kokito | time to hit the sack here | 07:31 |
| Kokito | good night folks | 07:31 |
| * abogani wonders if anyone could help him to write an email... | 09:03 | |
| ailo | abogani, I don't expect that I can be of much help. I'm sure you do fine by yourself, but I could take a look if you want. | 09:22 |
| abogani | ailo: I would want avoid people misunderstanding me but it is very simple (one or two sentences). | 09:24 |
| abogani | ailo: Could you please write an email in user- and dev- notify people that maintainer for -lowlatency and -realtime kernel are vcacant, please? | 09:26 |
| ailo | abogani, I see. Well, I believe ScottL could handle that. | 09:32 |
| ailo | -lowlatency does not seem to be a big problem to mantain, but -realtime does seem like it would be best that someone who has experience would mantain that | 09:34 |
| * abogani agrees | 09:35 | |
| abogani | ailo: In any case I would want make a special thanks to you. In last the months you have been the best user and the only one tester. | 09:36 |
| ailo | abogani, Thanks. It has been my pleasure to do so. btw, you live in Prato, right? My sister lives there. | 09:40 |
| abogani | ailo: Really? | 09:41 |
| ailo | She is a Java programmer in some company in Firenze | 09:41 |
| abogani | How little is the world! :) | 09:41 |
| ailo | I've been visiting a couple of times. Very nice city | 09:42 |
| abogani | ailo: I hope you are talking about Florence (and don't Prato) ;-) | 09:42 |
| ailo | Well, I don't know Prato so well. But, to me it was nice. Also in Florence. | 09:44 |
| scott-work | ailo, abogani: do either of you know what kernel is used in natty currently? | 13:56 |
| scott-work | 2.6.38 no ? | 13:57 |
| abogani | scott-work: Ubuntu Natty? 2.6.38-8.42 | 13:57 |
| scott-work | abogani: thank you :) | 13:57 |
| ailo | T0rCh_raony, Wazzyp? | 16:17 |
| scott-work | does anyone have time to test the Natty beta 2 image? We still need both amd64 and i386 images tested? | 18:25 |
| holstein | scott-work: :/ | 18:46 |
| holstein | it'll be late tonite | 18:46 |
| holstein | are we under the gun for today? | 18:46 |
| scott-work | holstein: i can ask on #ubuntu-release | 19:02 |
| holstein | scott-work: i'll check in tonite after the gig | 19:05 |
| holstein | and i'll get on it if i need to :) | 19:05 |
| Kokito | does Ubuntu Studio include Renoise? | 19:16 |
| holstein | Kokito: no | 19:19 |
| holstein | its not in the repos for sure | 19:19 |
| holstein | i dont think it can be? | 19:19 |
| holstein | maybe they could be talked into the software center | 19:20 |
| Kokito | is Renoise a commercial product? | 19:20 |
| Kokito | looks like it is | 19:21 |
| scott-work | TheMuso: sorry to bother you again, could you help me with a HAL dependency issue? bug 760008 | 19:43 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 760008 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Natty) "amd_64 studio install fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760008 | 19:43 |
| scott-work | holstein: thanks, that would be awesome, be aware that it will probably fail for amd64 though | 20:05 |
| scott-work | but if we can at least test the image (i.e. that it will _try_ to install), then we have met the commitment | 20:06 |
| scott-work | i'll do up the i386 tonight as well | 20:06 |
| scott-work | holstein: but before you start testing be sure to check: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all | 20:07 |
| scott-work | already since i started typing to you an hour ago there have been more tests completed | 20:08 |
| holstein | scott-work: cool | 20:12 |
| scott-work | holstein: hold off testing until we get more information about that bug | 22:21 |
| TheMuso | So hal. | 22:48 |
| TheMuso | It has bene left in atm, we need to check to see whether anything needs it that studio uses. | 22:48 |
| holstein | ScottL: i'll check in here when i get home | 23:01 |
| holstein | before i do anything | 23:01 |
| falktx | hey guys | 23:03 |
| falktx | how is US going? | 23:03 |
| falktx | beh, later... | 23:08 |
| holstein | falktx: yeah | 23:09 |
| holstein | good to see you falktx :) | 23:09 |
| holstein | we are making some progress for the future i think | 23:10 |
| holstein | good stuff coming | 23:10 |
| falktx | cool | 23:10 |
| holstein | https://picasaweb.google.com/jorge.g.mare/UbuntuStudioArtwork#5594894720374163314 | 23:10 |
| holstein | ^ that kind of thing | 23:10 |
| * falktx checks | 23:11 | |
| falktx | I have some mails to answer, but can't do it now | 23:11 |
| holstein | falktx: nah, you dont have to | 23:12 |
| holstein | its just a site theme in the works | 23:12 |
| holstein | i gotta run too | 23:12 |
| holstein | laterx | 23:12 |
| falktx | holstein: new webpage looks way cool!! | 23:12 |
| falktx | me too, laterx | 23:12 |
| ScottL | falktx, | 23:13 |
| ScottL | ladish is hitting debian | 23:13 |
| ScottL | should be in ubuntu 11.10 | 23:13 |
| falktx | ScottL: good news | 23:13 |
| * ScottL is reading backscroll from this morning | 23:13 | |
| falktx | cya | 23:13 |
| ScottL | hi TheBeedle | 23:40 |
| ScottL | abogani, i would love to handle the maintainence of the -lowlatency kernel | 23:40 |
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