ScottLlots of mail flying around on the list these days01:05
ailoScottL, Ladish coming to Ubuntu is good news, I guess01:12
ailoDid you manage to get the plymouth in?01:13
ScottLailo, i haven't pushed the changes yet, i wanted to discuss one of the notes i got with TheMuso first to make sure there isn't a problem again01:26
ScottLit will be done in time for final release through01:26
ScottLTheMuso, when you get a moment can we talk about what i pushed to ubuntustudio-look ?02:36
ScottLailo, are you still up?03:35
ailoScottL, I am. Actually just got up. Living like a vampire a bit03:55
TheMusoScottL: Sure whats up?03:55
ScottLTheMuso, is there a simple way to pull from the bzr branch and test build plymouth-theme-ubuntustudio?03:56
TheMusoScottL: Yes. Pull the branch, make your changes, commit, and run "bzr builddeb -S --native" to get a package, test build and test.03:56
ScottLTheMuso, i actually already pushed, i checked the debdiff to see what was missing, also checked the bzr diff, but just wanted to make sure03:57
ScottLbut i can still run "bzr builddeb -S --native" to get the package right?03:57
ScottL(but i will write down the commands for next time though)03:58
ScottLailo, i'm really sorry, but i don't remember right now why i asked if you were here :/  i've already had four other things come up03:59
ailoScottL, Well, I'll be here if you need me03:59
ScottLailo, incidentally, i did just get done talking to paul :)04:00
paultagheyya :)04:00
ScottLin another channel that it :)04:00
paultagScottL: lies! :)04:00
ailoHi paultag 04:00
ScottLi was telling him some of the changes coming for 11.1004:00
paultagheyya ailo :D04:00
ailoThere's a lot going on for sure04:01
ScottLgoing upstair to test build the plymouth-theme-ubuntu package one last time....just to make sure04:01
ScottLailo, yeah, i listed04:01
ScottL1. new desktop environment04:01
ScottL2. new UI04:01
ScottL3. kernel with irq threading04:01
ScottL4. -lowlatency in repos (hopefully)04:02
ScottLi forgot 5. new website might happen :)04:02
paultagsweet :)04:02
ailoI think all of those we have to do04:02
ailoAnd about 4. -lowlatency. Let's not hesitate at all04:02
ailo-generic is fine, but we need something we can count on, and that is -lowlatency04:03
ScottLoh yeah, 6. we are updating documentation04:03
ailoSo, no matter if -generic can be ok, or even just as good many times, better to push for what we know will absolutely work04:03
ScottLailo, as soon as alessio tells me 2.6.39 is stable and has his git in order i'll build the -lowlatency and start bugging persia04:03
ailoYeah. Documentation too04:04
ailoIn many ways, I'm feeling 11.10 is going to be year one.04:04
ailoA turning poing in almost every Ubuntu Studio specific area, if we pull it off04:05
paultagBBL, heading home04:07
ailolater paultag 04:08
ScottL"a turning point", i'm going to add that to cory's oreinic planning page (say that three times fast)04:11
ScottLi was adding things like "a new beginning" "not the ubuntu studio you knew"04:11
ScottLoh, and that bzr builddeb was a little confusing getting the syntax right04:12
ScottLi had to install "bzr-builddeb" but then i had to type "bzr builddeb"04:12
ailoScottL, Could you pass the link to Cory's page, please?04:16
ailoJust want to see what's cooking04:17
ScottLnot much in it yet, just some of my ramblings :P04:18
ailoScottL, About dark themes. Have to say KXStudio has a very goo theme. It's actually practical. I like Mcinnis idea to have three variants. One fully dark, one semi dark, and one light04:27
ailoAt least have two variants04:28
ScottLi like the idea as well04:30
ScottLi worry though because i haven't seen mac around lately or heard from him in email04:31
ailoScottL, Yeah.04:37
holsteinailo ScottL 05:15
holsteindid you guys catch that email?05:15
holsteinis that kokito?05:15
ailoThat's looking pretty fine to me05:16
holsteinits bumpin05:17
holsteini like it a lot :)05:17
ailoThe old ideas became fresh again too05:17
ailoIt looks great, and it looks practical too05:18
holsteinand it looks polised and almost finished :)05:18
holsteinailo: i thought about putting a new thread together05:21
holsteinabout XFCE05:21
holsteinim going to see about building an iso first05:22
holsteinif not05:22
holsteinjust link to puredyne05:22
holsteinand suggest that we look at XFCE seriously05:22
holsteinand comment on it05:22
holsteinseems like the interest is there05:22
ailoholstein, I think cory was going to put together an iso05:22
holsteini think we should have a thread of people who have actually use it05:22
holsteinailo: OH cool05:22
holsteini thought i read that he wanted someone else to do that05:23
ailoOne thing that I don't like about everyone voting for XFCE is that either I don't find their arguments valid, or they have no argument at all.05:23
ailoI don't mind XFCE, but I'd like a clear motivation05:23
ailoAnd that is what the discussion should be about, in my opinion05:23
ailoSo, when someone says, I like XFCE. That's just a personal opinion. Not an argument05:24
holsteinthats what the idea of the thread was05:24
holsteintry this iso05:24
holsteinand comment05:24
holsteinotherwise, you dont really have a proper first-hand opinion05:25
holsteinailo: i think i know the comment you are talking about05:25
holsteinsomething like 'ive heard xfce is just as heavy as gnome'05:25
holsteini mean, lets run it05:25
holsteinopen top05:26
holsteinand see05:26
ailoIt's not any one comment. But, the idea that XFCE would be less resource intensive does not seem valid to me05:26
holsteinailo: i really like that aspect you have brought to the team05:26
holsteinthe 'oh yeah? lets test it' attitude05:26
holsteini appreciate that, and learn a lot from the testing we've done05:26
ailoWell, unfortunately our testing is a little amateurish and incomplete. Too few testers to begin with, but it's like I heard Linus say about the 200 number code, not very politely: Numbers talk, Bullshit walks05:28
ailoAnd, when it comes to the test results, kernel hackers and all that. I'll trust my results first05:28
ailo200 line* code05:28
holsteinwe have a challenging area05:29
holsteinwith audio devices05:29
holsteini mean, you and i dont have common test cases05:29
holsteinand we're really into testing things05:29
ailoIt's hard to know exactly how to test before hand, since what we are interested is not the same as what regular Ubuntu devs are interested in05:30
holsteinbut, i think you are helping get in the neighborhood of complete results05:30
holsteinwith time, and more testers05:30
holsteinKokito: hey05:31
holsteinis that you on the list?05:31
Kokitohey holstein :)05:31
Kokitoyes :)05:31
ailoLooks great05:31
Kokitothanks :)05:31
holsteinyeah, im super stoked Kokito 05:31
Kokitostill not very happy myself, but I will get there :)05:32
holsteinslick and polished lookiing05:32
holsteinKokito: thanks for your time05:32
KokitoI need screenshots now05:32
Kokitoholstein: I enjoy doing this :)05:32
KokitoI have a question: is the US release cycle the same as Ubuntu?05:34
holsteinKokito: basically05:35
holsteini think we might be able to have a bit more wiggle room05:35
holsteinif needed05:35
holsteinbut, we should be right on track05:35
Kokitoso US becomes available the same day as Ubuntu then05:36
Kokitois there a place where one can track US-specific commits?05:37
holsteinKokito: probably, but i think ScottL would know that best05:37
holsteinKokito: i just got notifications of ISO's that were built05:37
holsteinto be tested05:37
holsteinbut thats not what you want right?05:37
Kokitonot exactly05:38
holsteinyou want ubuntustudio specific package build status?05:38
Kokitono, I want to be able to see US-specific commits05:38
Kokitoassuming there are any :)05:38
holsteini think so05:39
Kokitoor is US just a re-packaged Ubuntu?05:39
holsteinmight have missed ScottL for the nite though05:39
Kokitonp holstein 05:39
Kokitono rush :)05:39
ailoKokito, US has it's own desktop. It's similar to Xubuntu and other derivatives in that it share the base, but has it's own set of packages05:40
Kokitohi ailo :)05:40
Kokitoailo: is there such as thing as an US repository?05:41
ailoIt's in the main repo05:41
holsteinnot seperate05:41
Kokitook, I see05:41
ailoKokito, All the Ubuntu specific packages start with ubuntustudio-*05:41
ailoKokito, And most of them are meta packages05:41
ailoKokito, But, it won't be exactly the same if you install Ubuntu first and the Ubuntu Studio packages, even though it works of course05:42
Kokitonow you made me curious :)05:42
Kokitowhat is the difference?05:42
ailoAs I have understood, getting packages uploaded need to be done by contact with MOTU, or trying to upload to Debian05:43
holsteintheme-ing is a big difference05:43
holsteinnot ubuntu-desktop05:43
holsteinthe look and feel05:43
Kokitoare the default packages also difference?05:43
ailoKokito, Well, if you already installed Ubuntu, it will have certain things installed, that won't be uninstalled if you install Ubuntu Studio packages05:43
holsteinbut a package here and there too05:43
holsteinother than just the audio stuff05:43
ailoIt will probably consume more RAM then a fresh install of Ubuntu Studio05:44
holsteinthe base is more similar now though right ailo ?05:44
ailoholstein, I think Ubuntu Studio is older, in a way. But, without Gnome, there is not much difference I believe.05:45
ailoKokito, ubuntustudio-desktop is quite different from ubuntu-desktop'05:45
ailoI think that is the main difference05:46
KokitoI see05:46
ailonetwork manager is only now being included05:46
Kokitohas US the leeway to add apps that are not available in the Ubuntu repos?05:46
* Kokito can't access https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio05:47
ailoYes. Those would be: theming, ubuntustudio-controls05:47
ailoDon't know if there are any more05:47
ailoSo, there isn't very much05:47
ailotheming = ubuntustudio-looks (and it's dependencies)05:48
Kokitowhat about the kernel? I read all these messages about rt and lowlatency, so was under the impression that US used a different kernel. is that the case?05:50
ailoThere isn't really a need for any more than that, except for multimedia packages that aren't in Debian yet. And of those, I don't know if any have been uploaded to Ubuntu's repos on US's account05:50
holsteinhopefully the generic kernel will be up to the task soon05:50
holsteinbut -lowlatency should be in the repos for us i think05:50
ailoKokito, There used to be an -rt kernel, uploaded by the Ubuntu Studio team. ScottL will try uploading -lowlatency for next release05:51
holsteinaboganI has a PPA for those kernels05:51
ailoFor next release I will be looking at if there is something missing in Debian that Ubuntu Studio could have use for, so if something isn't there, I will probably try get it in. Sound system specific stuff in that case05:52
ailoI would use KXStudio as an example as well as others.05:53
* Kokito is checking out what KXStudio is05:56
Kokitoare there any significant differences between US and KX from a user POV?05:57
ailoKokito, The guy developing KXStudio, falktx is looking to become more involved in Ubuntu Studio as well, and he hangs around here quite a lot05:58
ailoKokito, There are a lot of differences. falktx is probably using everything that the linux audio world has to offer05:58
ailoHe's trying to simplify and abstract things05:59
Kokitothat sounds like a good idea06:00
ailoI don't have a lot of experience with that distro yet, so I would want to see how stable it is and so on06:00
ailoBut, there are some things that are definitely worth doing. 06:01
Kokitoand looks like there can be a lot of potential synergies with US06:01
ailoHe does some coding too, and has developed some software06:02
ailoFor hosting plugins, session handling etc06:02
holsteinjack runs at login on KX06:05
ailoRight, and pulseaudio is a client for jack. No need to work with qjackctl. A lot of the apps are newish for Linux veterans. I think that's a part of the problem for me. Too much of a big step at first, so I for one need to dig in a bit to find out what's really going on06:06
holsteinyeah, i like stopping and starting JACK06:11
holsteinusing different profiles06:11
holsteinbut, i use the hell out of falks KXstudio PPA's :)06:11
Kokitoman, the ubuntu wiki is really sloooooooooooooow06:16
Kokitooh oh, Internal Server Error06:17
* abogani waves all07:15
Kokitohey abogani 07:31
Kokitotime to hit the sack here07:31
Kokitogood night folks07:31
* abogani wonders if anyone could help him to write an email...09:03
ailoabogani, I don't expect that I can be of much help. I'm sure you do fine by yourself, but I could take a look if you want.09:22
aboganiailo: I would want avoid people misunderstanding me but it is very simple (one or two sentences).09:24
aboganiailo: Could you please write an email in user- and dev- notify people that maintainer for -lowlatency and -realtime kernel are vcacant, please?09:26
ailoabogani, I see. Well, I believe ScottL could handle that. 09:32
ailo-lowlatency does not seem to be a big problem to mantain, but -realtime does seem like it would be best that someone who has experience would mantain that09:34
* abogani agrees09:35
aboganiailo: In any case I would want make a special thanks to you. In last the months you have been the best user and the only one tester.09:36
ailoabogani, Thanks. It has been my pleasure to do so. btw, you live in Prato, right? My sister lives there.09:40
aboganiailo: Really?09:41
ailoShe is a Java programmer in some company in Firenze09:41
aboganiHow little is the world! :)09:41
ailoI've been visiting a couple of times. Very nice city09:42
aboganiailo: I hope you are talking about Florence (and don't Prato) ;-)09:42
ailoWell, I don't know Prato so well. But, to me it was nice. Also in Florence. 09:44
scott-workailo, abogani:  do either of you know what kernel is used in natty currently?13:56
scott-work2.6.38 no ?13:57
aboganiscott-work: Ubuntu Natty? 2.6.38-8.4213:57
scott-workabogani: thank you :)13:57
ailoT0rCh_raony, Wazzyp?16:17
scott-workdoes anyone have time to test the Natty beta 2 image?  We still need both amd64 and i386 images tested?18:25
holsteinscott-work: :/18:46
holsteinit'll be late tonite18:46
holsteinare we under the gun for today?18:46
scott-workholstein: i can ask on #ubuntu-release19:02
holsteinscott-work: i'll check in tonite after the gig19:05
holsteinand i'll get on it if i need to :)19:05
Kokitodoes Ubuntu Studio include Renoise?19:16
holsteinKokito: no19:19
holsteinits not in the repos for sure19:19
holsteini dont think it can be?19:19
holsteinmaybe they could be talked into the software center19:20
Kokitois Renoise a commercial product?19:20
Kokitolooks like it is19:21
scott-workTheMuso: sorry to bother you again, could you help me with a HAL dependency issue?  bug 76000819:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 760008 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Natty) "amd_64 studio install fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/76000819:43
scott-workholstein: thanks, that would be awesome, be aware that it will probably fail for amd64 though20:05
scott-workbut if we can at least test the image (i.e. that it will _try_ to install), then we have met the commitment20:06
scott-worki'll do up the i386 tonight as well20:06
scott-workholstein: but before you start testing be sure to check:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all20:07
scott-workalready since i started typing to you an hour ago there have been more tests completed20:08
holsteinscott-work: cool20:12
scott-workholstein: hold off testing until we get more information about that bug22:21
TheMusoSo hal.22:48
TheMusoIt has bene left in atm, we need to check to see whether anything needs it that studio uses.22:48
holsteinScottL: i'll check in here when i get home23:01
holsteinbefore i do anything23:01
falktxhey guys23:03
falktxhow is US going?23:03
falktxbeh, later...23:08
holsteinfalktx: yeah23:09
holsteingood to see you falktx :)23:09
holsteinwe are making some progress for the future i think23:10
holsteingood stuff coming23:10
holstein^ that kind of thing23:10
* falktx checks23:11
falktxI have some mails to answer, but can't do it now23:11
holsteinfalktx: nah, you dont have to23:12
holsteinits just a site theme in the works23:12
holsteini gotta run too23:12
falktxholstein: new webpage looks way cool!!23:12
falktxme too, laterx23:12
ScottLfalktx, 23:13
ScottLladish is hitting debian23:13
ScottLshould be in ubuntu 11.1023:13
falktxScottL: good news23:13
* ScottL is reading backscroll from this morning23:13
ScottLhi TheBeedle 23:40
ScottLabogani, i would love to handle the maintainence of the -lowlatency kernel23:40

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