[01:05] <ScottL> lots of mail flying around on the list these days
[01:12] <ailo> ScottL, Ladish coming to Ubuntu is good news, I guess
[01:13] <ailo> Did you manage to get the plymouth in?
[01:26] <ScottL> ailo, i haven't pushed the changes yet, i wanted to discuss one of the notes i got with TheMuso first to make sure there isn't a problem again
[01:26] <ScottL> it will be done in time for final release through
[01:30] <ailo> ok
[02:36] <ScottL> TheMuso, when you get a moment can we talk about what i pushed to ubuntustudio-look ?
[03:35] <ScottL> ailo, are you still up?
[03:55] <ailo> ScottL, I am. Actually just got up. Living like a vampire a bit
[03:55] <TheMuso> ScottL: Sure whats up?
[03:56] <ScottL> TheMuso, is there a simple way to pull from the bzr branch and test build plymouth-theme-ubuntustudio?
[03:56] <TheMuso> ScottL: Yes. Pull the branch, make your changes, commit, and run "bzr builddeb -S --native" to get a package, test build and test.
[03:57] <ScottL> TheMuso, i actually already pushed, i checked the debdiff to see what was missing, also checked the bzr diff, but just wanted to make sure
[03:57] <TheMuso> ok
[03:57] <ScottL> but i can still run "bzr builddeb -S --native" to get the package right?
[03:58] <ScottL> (but i will write down the commands for next time though)
[03:59] <ScottL> ailo, i'm really sorry, but i don't remember right now why i asked if you were here :/  i've already had four other things come up
[03:59] <ailo> ScottL, Well, I'll be here if you need me
[04:00] <ScottL> ailo, incidentally, i did just get done talking to paul :)
[04:00] <paultag> heyya :)
[04:00] <ScottL> in another channel that it :)
[04:00] <paultag> ScottL: lies! :)
[04:00] <ailo> Hi paultag 
[04:00] <ScottL> i was telling him some of the changes coming for 11.10
[04:00] <paultag> heyya ailo :D
[04:01] <ailo> There's a lot going on for sure
[04:01] <ScottL> going upstair to test build the plymouth-theme-ubuntu package one last time....just to make sure
[04:01] <ScottL> ailo, yeah, i listed
[04:01] <ScottL> 1. new desktop environment
[04:01] <ScottL> 2. new UI
[04:01] <ScottL> 3. kernel with irq threading
[04:02] <ScottL> 4. -lowlatency in repos (hopefully)
[04:02] <ScottL> i forgot 5. new website might happen :)
[04:02] <paultag> sweet :)
[04:02] <ailo> I think all of those we have to do
[04:02] <ailo> And about 4. -lowlatency. Let's not hesitate at all
[04:03] <ailo> -generic is fine, but we need something we can count on, and that is -lowlatency
[04:03] <ScottL> oh yeah, 6. we are updating documentation
[04:03] <ailo> So, no matter if -generic can be ok, or even just as good many times, better to push for what we know will absolutely work
[04:03] <ScottL> ailo, as soon as alessio tells me 2.6.39 is stable and has his git in order i'll build the -lowlatency and start bugging persia
[04:04] <ailo> Yeah. Documentation too
[04:04] <ailo> In many ways, I'm feeling 11.10 is going to be year one.
[04:05] <ailo> A turning poing in almost every Ubuntu Studio specific area, if we pull it off
[04:06] <holstein> w00t!
[04:07] <paultag> BBL, heading home
[04:07] <paultag> TTYS
[04:08] <ailo> later paultag 
[04:11] <ScottL> "a turning point", i'm going to add that to cory's oreinic planning page (say that three times fast)
[04:11] <ScottL> i was adding things like "a new beginning" "not the ubuntu studio you knew"
[04:12] <ScottL> oh, and that bzr builddeb was a little confusing getting the syntax right
[04:12] <ScottL> i had to install "bzr-builddeb" but then i had to type "bzr builddeb"
[04:16] <ailo> ScottL, Could you pass the link to Cory's page, please?
[04:17] <ailo> Just want to see what's cooking
[04:18] <ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OneiricConcepts
[04:18] <ScottL> not much in it yet, just some of my ramblings :P
[04:27] <ailo> ScottL, About dark themes. Have to say KXStudio has a very goo theme. It's actually practical. I like Mcinnis idea to have three variants. One fully dark, one semi dark, and one light
[04:28] <ailo> At least have two variants
[04:30] <ScottL> i like the idea as well
[04:31] <ScottL> i worry though because i haven't seen mac around lately or heard from him in email
[04:37] <ailo> ScottL, Yeah.
[05:15] <holstein> ailo ScottL 
[05:15] <holstein> did you guys catch that email?
[05:15] <holstein> https://picasaweb.google.com/jorge.g.mare/UbuntuStudioArtwork#
[05:15] <holstein> is that kokito?
[05:16] <ailo> That's looking pretty fine to me
[05:17] <holstein> its bumpin
[05:17] <holstein> i like it a lot :)
[05:17] <ailo> The old ideas became fresh again too
[05:18] <ailo> It looks great, and it looks practical too
[05:18] <holstein> and it looks polised and almost finished :)
[05:19] <holstein> polished*
[05:21] <holstein> ailo: i thought about putting a new thread together
[05:21] <holstein> about XFCE
[05:22] <holstein> im going to see about building an iso first
[05:22] <holstein> if not
[05:22] <holstein> just link to puredyne
[05:22] <holstein> and suggest that we look at XFCE seriously
[05:22] <holstein> and comment on it
[05:22] <holstein> seems like the interest is there
[05:22] <ailo> holstein, I think cory was going to put together an iso
[05:22] <holstein> i think we should have a thread of people who have actually use it
[05:22] <holstein> ailo: OH cool
[05:23] <holstein> i thought i read that he wanted someone else to do that
[05:23] <ailo> One thing that I don't like about everyone voting for XFCE is that either I don't find their arguments valid, or they have no argument at all.
[05:23] <ailo> I don't mind XFCE, but I'd like a clear motivation
[05:23] <ailo> And that is what the discussion should be about, in my opinion
[05:24] <ailo> So, when someone says, I like XFCE. That's just a personal opinion. Not an argument
[05:24] <holstein> right
[05:24] <holstein> thats what the idea of the thread was
[05:24] <holstein> try this iso
[05:24] <holstein> and comment
[05:25] <holstein> otherwise, you dont really have a proper first-hand opinion
[05:25] <holstein> ailo: i think i know the comment you are talking about
[05:25] <holstein> something like 'ive heard xfce is just as heavy as gnome'
[05:25] <holstein> i mean, lets run it
[05:26] <holstein> open top
[05:26] <holstein> and see
[05:26] <ailo> It's not any one comment. But, the idea that XFCE would be less resource intensive does not seem valid to me
[05:26] <holstein> ailo: i really like that aspect you have brought to the team
[05:26] <holstein> the 'oh yeah? lets test it' attitude
[05:26] <holstein> i appreciate that, and learn a lot from the testing we've done
[05:28] <ailo> Well, unfortunately our testing is a little amateurish and incomplete. Too few testers to begin with, but it's like I heard Linus say about the 200 number code, not very politely: Numbers talk, Bullshit walks
[05:28] <ailo> And, when it comes to the test results, kernel hackers and all that. I'll trust my results first
[05:28] <ailo> 200 line* code
[05:29] <holstein> we have a challenging area
[05:29] <holstein> with audio devices
[05:29] <holstein> i mean, you and i dont have common test cases
[05:29] <holstein> and we're really into testing things
[05:30] <ailo> It's hard to know exactly how to test before hand, since what we are interested is not the same as what regular Ubuntu devs are interested in
[05:30] <holstein> but, i think you are helping get in the neighborhood of complete results
[05:30] <holstein> with time, and more testers
[05:31] <holstein> Kokito: hey
[05:31] <holstein> is that you on the list?
[05:31] <Kokito> hey holstein :)
[05:31] <holstein> https://picasaweb.google.com/jorge.g.mare/UbuntuStudioArtwork#5594894720374163314
[05:31] <holstein> ^
[05:31] <Kokito> yes :)
[05:31] <holstein> awesome
[05:31] <ailo> Looks great
[05:31] <Kokito> thanks :)
[05:31] <holstein> yeah, im super stoked Kokito 
[05:32] <Kokito> still not very happy myself, but I will get there :)
[05:32] <holstein> slick and polished lookiing
[05:32] <holstein> Kokito: thanks for your time
[05:32] <Kokito> I need screenshots now
[05:32] <Kokito> holstein: I enjoy doing this :)
[05:34] <Kokito> I have a question: is the US release cycle the same as Ubuntu?
[05:35] <holstein> Kokito: basically
[05:35] <holstein> i think we might be able to have a bit more wiggle room
[05:35] <holstein> if needed
[05:35] <holstein> but, we should be right on track
[05:36] <Kokito> so US becomes available the same day as Ubuntu then
[05:36] <holstein> yup
[05:36] <Kokito> ok
[05:37] <Kokito> is there a place where one can track US-specific commits?
[05:37] <holstein> Kokito: probably, but i think ScottL would know that best
[05:37] <holstein> Kokito: i just got notifications of ISO's that were built
[05:37] <holstein> to be tested
[05:37] <holstein> but thats not what you want right?
[05:38] <Kokito> not exactly
[05:38] <holstein> you want ubuntustudio specific package build status?
[05:38] <holstein> stati..
[05:38] <holstein> staticies
[05:38] <Kokito> no, I want to be able to see US-specific commits
[05:38] <Kokito> assuming there are any :)
[05:39] <holstein> i think so
[05:39] <Kokito> or is US just a re-packaged Ubuntu?
[05:39] <holstein> might have missed ScottL for the nite though
[05:39] <Kokito> np holstein 
[05:39] <Kokito> no rush :)
[05:40] <ailo> Kokito, US has it's own desktop. It's similar to Xubuntu and other derivatives in that it share the base, but has it's own set of packages
[05:40] <Kokito> hi ailo :)
[05:41] <ailo> hi
[05:41] <Kokito> ailo: is there such as thing as an US repository?
[05:41] <ailo> No
[05:41] <ailo> It's in the main repo
[05:41] <holstein> not seperate
[05:41] <Kokito> ok, I see
[05:41] <ailo> Kokito, All the Ubuntu specific packages start with ubuntustudio-*
[05:41] <ailo> Kokito, And most of them are meta packages
[05:42] <Kokito> understood
[05:42] <ailo> Kokito, But, it won't be exactly the same if you install Ubuntu first and the Ubuntu Studio packages, even though it works of course
[05:42] <Kokito> now you made me curious :)
[05:42] <Kokito> what is the difference?
[05:43] <ailo> As I have understood, getting packages uploaded need to be done by contact with MOTU, or trying to upload to Debian
[05:43] <holstein> theme-ing is a big difference
[05:43] <holstein> ubuntustudio-desktop
[05:43] <holstein> not ubuntu-desktop
[05:43] <holstein> the look and feel
[05:43] <Kokito> are the default packages also difference?
[05:43] <ailo> Kokito, Well, if you already installed Ubuntu, it will have certain things installed, that won't be uninstalled if you install Ubuntu Studio packages
[05:43] <holstein> but a package here and there too
[05:43] <holstein> other than just the audio stuff
[05:44] <ailo> It will probably consume more RAM then a fresh install of Ubuntu Studio
[05:44] <holstein> the base is more similar now though right ailo ?
[05:45] <ailo> holstein, I think Ubuntu Studio is older, in a way. But, without Gnome, there is not much difference I believe.
[05:45] <ailo> Kokito, ubuntustudio-desktop is quite different from ubuntu-desktop'
[05:46] <ailo> I think that is the main difference
[05:46] <Kokito> I see
[05:46] <ailo> network manager is only now being included
[05:46] <Kokito> has US the leeway to add apps that are not available in the Ubuntu repos?
[05:47]  * Kokito can't access https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio
[05:47] <ailo> Yes. Those would be: theming, ubuntustudio-controls
[05:47] <ailo> Don't know if there are any more
[05:47] <ailo> So, there isn't very much
[05:48] <ailo> theming = ubuntustudio-looks (and it's dependencies)
[05:49] <Kokito> aha
[05:50] <Kokito> what about the kernel? I read all these messages about rt and lowlatency, so was under the impression that US used a different kernel. is that the case?
[05:50] <ailo> There isn't really a need for any more than that, except for multimedia packages that aren't in Debian yet. And of those, I don't know if any have been uploaded to Ubuntu's repos on US's account
[05:50] <holstein> hopefully the generic kernel will be up to the task soon
[05:50] <holstein> but -lowlatency should be in the repos for us i think
[05:51] <ailo> Kokito, There used to be an -rt kernel, uploaded by the Ubuntu Studio team. ScottL will try uploading -lowlatency for next release
[05:51] <holstein> aboganI has a PPA for those kernels
[05:52] <ailo> For next release I will be looking at if there is something missing in Debian that Ubuntu Studio could have use for, so if something isn't there, I will probably try get it in. Sound system specific stuff in that case
[05:53] <ailo> I would use KXStudio as an example as well as others.
[05:56]  * Kokito is checking out what KXStudio is
[05:57] <Kokito> interesting...
[05:57] <Kokito> are there any significant differences between US and KX from a user POV?
[05:58] <ailo> Kokito, The guy developing KXStudio, falktx is looking to become more involved in Ubuntu Studio as well, and he hangs around here quite a lot
[05:58] <Kokito> cool!
[05:58] <ailo> Kokito, There are a lot of differences. falktx is probably using everything that the linux audio world has to offer
[05:59] <ailo> He's trying to simplify and abstract things
[06:00] <Kokito> that sounds like a good idea
[06:00] <ailo> I don't have a lot of experience with that distro yet, so I would want to see how stable it is and so on
[06:01] <ailo> But, there are some things that are definitely worth doing. 
[06:01] <Kokito> and looks like there can be a lot of potential synergies with US
[06:02] <ailo> He does some coding too, and has developed some software
[06:02] <ailo> For hosting plugins, session handling etc
[06:05] <holstein> jack runs at login on KX
[06:06] <ailo> Right, and pulseaudio is a client for jack. No need to work with qjackctl. A lot of the apps are newish for Linux veterans. I think that's a part of the problem for me. Too much of a big step at first, so I for one need to dig in a bit to find out what's really going on
[06:11] <holstein> yeah, i like stopping and starting JACK
[06:11] <holstein> using different profiles
[06:11] <holstein> but, i use the hell out of falks KXstudio PPA's :)
[06:16] <Kokito> man, the ubuntu wiki is really sloooooooooooooow
[06:17] <Kokito> oh oh, Internal Server Error
[07:15]  * abogani waves all
[07:31] <Kokito> hey abogani 
[07:31] <Kokito> time to hit the sack here
[07:31] <Kokito> good night folks
[09:03]  * abogani wonders if anyone could help him to write an email...
[09:22] <ailo> abogani, I don't expect that I can be of much help. I'm sure you do fine by yourself, but I could take a look if you want.
[09:24] <abogani> ailo: I would want avoid people misunderstanding me but it is very simple (one or two sentences).
[09:26] <abogani> ailo: Could you please write an email in user- and dev- notify people that maintainer for -lowlatency and -realtime kernel are vcacant, please?
[09:32] <ailo> abogani, I see. Well, I believe ScottL could handle that. 
[09:34] <ailo> -lowlatency does not seem to be a big problem to mantain, but -realtime does seem like it would be best that someone who has experience would mantain that
[09:35]  * abogani agrees
[09:36] <abogani> ailo: In any case I would want make a special thanks to you. In last the months you have been the best user and the only one tester.
[09:40] <ailo> abogani, Thanks. It has been my pleasure to do so. btw, you live in Prato, right? My sister lives there.
[09:41] <abogani> ailo: Really?
[09:41] <ailo> She is a Java programmer in some company in Firenze
[09:41] <abogani> How little is the world! :)
[09:42] <ailo> I've been visiting a couple of times. Very nice city
[09:42] <abogani> ailo: I hope you are talking about Florence (and don't Prato) ;-)
[09:44] <ailo> Well, I don't know Prato so well. But, to me it was nice. Also in Florence. 
[13:56] <scott-work> ailo, abogani:  do either of you know what kernel is used in natty currently?
[13:57] <scott-work> 2.6.38 no ?
[13:57] <abogani> scott-work: Ubuntu Natty? 2.6.38-8.42
[13:57] <scott-work> abogani: thank you :)
[16:17] <ailo> T0rCh_raony, Wazzyp?
[18:25] <scott-work> does anyone have time to test the Natty beta 2 image?  We still need both amd64 and i386 images tested?
[18:46] <holstein> scott-work: :/
[18:46] <holstein> it'll be late tonite
[18:46] <holstein> are we under the gun for today?
[19:02] <scott-work> holstein: i can ask on #ubuntu-release
[19:05] <holstein> scott-work: i'll check in tonite after the gig
[19:05] <holstein> and i'll get on it if i need to :)
[19:16] <Kokito> does Ubuntu Studio include Renoise?
[19:19] <holstein> Kokito: no
[19:19] <holstein> its not in the repos for sure
[19:19] <holstein> i dont think it can be?
[19:20] <holstein> maybe they could be talked into the software center
[19:20] <Kokito> is Renoise a commercial product?
[19:21] <Kokito> looks like it is
[19:43] <scott-work> TheMuso: sorry to bother you again, could you help me with a HAL dependency issue?  bug 760008
[20:05] <scott-work> holstein: thanks, that would be awesome, be aware that it will probably fail for amd64 though
[20:06] <scott-work> but if we can at least test the image (i.e. that it will _try_ to install), then we have met the commitment
[20:06] <scott-work> i'll do up the i386 tonight as well
[20:07] <scott-work> holstein: but before you start testing be sure to check:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all
[20:08] <scott-work> already since i started typing to you an hour ago there have been more tests completed
[20:12] <holstein> scott-work: cool
[22:21] <scott-work> holstein: hold off testing until we get more information about that bug
[22:48] <TheMuso> So hal.
[22:48] <TheMuso> It has bene left in atm, we need to check to see whether anything needs it that studio uses.
[23:01] <holstein> ScottL: i'll check in here when i get home
[23:01] <holstein> before i do anything
[23:03] <falktx> hey guys
[23:03] <falktx> how is US going?
[23:08] <falktx> beh, later...
[23:09] <holstein> falktx: yeah
[23:09] <holstein> good to see you falktx :)
[23:10] <holstein> we are making some progress for the future i think
[23:10] <holstein> good stuff coming
[23:10] <falktx> cool
[23:10] <holstein> https://picasaweb.google.com/jorge.g.mare/UbuntuStudioArtwork#5594894720374163314
[23:10] <holstein> ^ that kind of thing
[23:11]  * falktx checks
[23:11] <falktx> I have some mails to answer, but can't do it now
[23:12] <holstein> falktx: nah, you dont have to
[23:12] <holstein> its just a site theme in the works
[23:12] <holstein> i gotta run too
[23:12] <holstein> laterx
[23:12] <falktx> holstein: new webpage looks way cool!!
[23:12] <falktx> me too, laterx
[23:13] <ScottL> falktx, 
[23:13] <ScottL> ladish is hitting debian
[23:13] <ScottL> should be in ubuntu 11.10
[23:13] <falktx> ScottL: good news
[23:13]  * ScottL is reading backscroll from this morning
[23:13] <falktx> cya
[23:40] <ScottL> hi TheBeedle 
[23:40] <ScottL> abogani, i would love to handle the maintainence of the -lowlatency kernel