[01:05] lots of mail flying around on the list these days [01:12] ScottL, Ladish coming to Ubuntu is good news, I guess [01:13] Did you manage to get the plymouth in? [01:26] ailo, i haven't pushed the changes yet, i wanted to discuss one of the notes i got with TheMuso first to make sure there isn't a problem again [01:26] it will be done in time for final release through [01:30] ok [02:36] TheMuso, when you get a moment can we talk about what i pushed to ubuntustudio-look ? [03:35] ailo, are you still up? [03:55] ScottL, I am. Actually just got up. Living like a vampire a bit [03:55] ScottL: Sure whats up? [03:56] TheMuso, is there a simple way to pull from the bzr branch and test build plymouth-theme-ubuntustudio? [03:56] ScottL: Yes. Pull the branch, make your changes, commit, and run "bzr builddeb -S --native" to get a package, test build and test. [03:57] TheMuso, i actually already pushed, i checked the debdiff to see what was missing, also checked the bzr diff, but just wanted to make sure [03:57] ok [03:57] but i can still run "bzr builddeb -S --native" to get the package right? [03:58] (but i will write down the commands for next time though) [03:59] ailo, i'm really sorry, but i don't remember right now why i asked if you were here :/ i've already had four other things come up [03:59] ScottL, Well, I'll be here if you need me [04:00] ailo, incidentally, i did just get done talking to paul :) [04:00] heyya :) [04:00] in another channel that it :) [04:00] ScottL: lies! :) [04:00] Hi paultag [04:00] i was telling him some of the changes coming for 11.10 [04:00] heyya ailo :D [04:01] There's a lot going on for sure [04:01] going upstair to test build the plymouth-theme-ubuntu package one last time....just to make sure [04:01] ailo, yeah, i listed [04:01] 1. new desktop environment [04:01] 2. new UI [04:01] 3. kernel with irq threading [04:02] 4. -lowlatency in repos (hopefully) [04:02] i forgot 5. new website might happen :) [04:02] sweet :) [04:02] I think all of those we have to do [04:02] And about 4. -lowlatency. Let's not hesitate at all [04:03] -generic is fine, but we need something we can count on, and that is -lowlatency [04:03] oh yeah, 6. we are updating documentation [04:03] So, no matter if -generic can be ok, or even just as good many times, better to push for what we know will absolutely work [04:03] ailo, as soon as alessio tells me 2.6.39 is stable and has his git in order i'll build the -lowlatency and start bugging persia [04:04] Yeah. Documentation too [04:04] In many ways, I'm feeling 11.10 is going to be year one. [04:05] A turning poing in almost every Ubuntu Studio specific area, if we pull it off [04:06] w00t! [04:07] BBL, heading home [04:07] TTYS [04:08] later paultag [04:11] "a turning point", i'm going to add that to cory's oreinic planning page (say that three times fast) [04:11] i was adding things like "a new beginning" "not the ubuntu studio you knew" [04:12] oh, and that bzr builddeb was a little confusing getting the syntax right [04:12] i had to install "bzr-builddeb" but then i had to type "bzr builddeb" [04:16] ScottL, Could you pass the link to Cory's page, please? [04:17] Just want to see what's cooking [04:18] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OneiricConcepts [04:18] not much in it yet, just some of my ramblings :P [04:27] ScottL, About dark themes. Have to say KXStudio has a very goo theme. It's actually practical. I like Mcinnis idea to have three variants. One fully dark, one semi dark, and one light [04:28] At least have two variants [04:30] i like the idea as well [04:31] i worry though because i haven't seen mac around lately or heard from him in email [04:37] ScottL, Yeah. [05:15] ailo ScottL [05:15] did you guys catch that email? [05:15] https://picasaweb.google.com/jorge.g.mare/UbuntuStudioArtwork# [05:15] is that kokito? [05:16] That's looking pretty fine to me [05:17] its bumpin [05:17] i like it a lot :) [05:17] The old ideas became fresh again too [05:18] It looks great, and it looks practical too [05:18] and it looks polised and almost finished :) [05:19] polished* [05:21] ailo: i thought about putting a new thread together [05:21] about XFCE [05:22] im going to see about building an iso first [05:22] if not [05:22] just link to puredyne [05:22] and suggest that we look at XFCE seriously [05:22] and comment on it [05:22] seems like the interest is there [05:22] holstein, I think cory was going to put together an iso [05:22] i think we should have a thread of people who have actually use it [05:22] ailo: OH cool [05:23] i thought i read that he wanted someone else to do that [05:23] One thing that I don't like about everyone voting for XFCE is that either I don't find their arguments valid, or they have no argument at all. [05:23] I don't mind XFCE, but I'd like a clear motivation [05:23] And that is what the discussion should be about, in my opinion [05:24] So, when someone says, I like XFCE. That's just a personal opinion. Not an argument [05:24] right [05:24] thats what the idea of the thread was [05:24] try this iso [05:24] and comment [05:25] otherwise, you dont really have a proper first-hand opinion [05:25] ailo: i think i know the comment you are talking about [05:25] something like 'ive heard xfce is just as heavy as gnome' [05:25] i mean, lets run it [05:26] open top [05:26] and see [05:26] It's not any one comment. But, the idea that XFCE would be less resource intensive does not seem valid to me [05:26] ailo: i really like that aspect you have brought to the team [05:26] the 'oh yeah? lets test it' attitude [05:26] i appreciate that, and learn a lot from the testing we've done [05:28] Well, unfortunately our testing is a little amateurish and incomplete. Too few testers to begin with, but it's like I heard Linus say about the 200 number code, not very politely: Numbers talk, Bullshit walks [05:28] And, when it comes to the test results, kernel hackers and all that. I'll trust my results first [05:28] 200 line* code [05:29] we have a challenging area [05:29] with audio devices [05:29] i mean, you and i dont have common test cases [05:29] and we're really into testing things [05:30] It's hard to know exactly how to test before hand, since what we are interested is not the same as what regular Ubuntu devs are interested in [05:30] but, i think you are helping get in the neighborhood of complete results [05:30] with time, and more testers [05:31] Kokito: hey [05:31] is that you on the list? [05:31] hey holstein :) [05:31] https://picasaweb.google.com/jorge.g.mare/UbuntuStudioArtwork#5594894720374163314 [05:31] ^ [05:31] yes :) [05:31] awesome [05:31] Looks great [05:31] thanks :) [05:31] yeah, im super stoked Kokito [05:32] still not very happy myself, but I will get there :) [05:32] slick and polished lookiing [05:32] Kokito: thanks for your time [05:32] I need screenshots now [05:32] holstein: I enjoy doing this :) [05:34] I have a question: is the US release cycle the same as Ubuntu? [05:35] Kokito: basically [05:35] i think we might be able to have a bit more wiggle room [05:35] if needed [05:35] but, we should be right on track [05:36] so US becomes available the same day as Ubuntu then [05:36] yup [05:36] ok [05:37] is there a place where one can track US-specific commits? [05:37] Kokito: probably, but i think ScottL would know that best [05:37] Kokito: i just got notifications of ISO's that were built [05:37] to be tested [05:37] but thats not what you want right? [05:38] not exactly [05:38] you want ubuntustudio specific package build status? [05:38] stati.. [05:38] staticies [05:38] no, I want to be able to see US-specific commits [05:38] assuming there are any :) [05:39] i think so [05:39] or is US just a re-packaged Ubuntu? [05:39] might have missed ScottL for the nite though [05:39] np holstein [05:39] no rush :) [05:40] Kokito, US has it's own desktop. It's similar to Xubuntu and other derivatives in that it share the base, but has it's own set of packages [05:40] hi ailo :) [05:41] hi [05:41] ailo: is there such as thing as an US repository? [05:41] No [05:41] It's in the main repo [05:41] not seperate [05:41] ok, I see [05:41] Kokito, All the Ubuntu specific packages start with ubuntustudio-* [05:41] Kokito, And most of them are meta packages [05:42] understood [05:42] Kokito, But, it won't be exactly the same if you install Ubuntu first and the Ubuntu Studio packages, even though it works of course [05:42] now you made me curious :) [05:42] what is the difference? [05:43] As I have understood, getting packages uploaded need to be done by contact with MOTU, or trying to upload to Debian [05:43] theme-ing is a big difference [05:43] ubuntustudio-desktop [05:43] not ubuntu-desktop [05:43] the look and feel [05:43] are the default packages also difference? [05:43] Kokito, Well, if you already installed Ubuntu, it will have certain things installed, that won't be uninstalled if you install Ubuntu Studio packages [05:43] but a package here and there too [05:43] other than just the audio stuff [05:44] It will probably consume more RAM then a fresh install of Ubuntu Studio [05:44] the base is more similar now though right ailo ? [05:45] holstein, I think Ubuntu Studio is older, in a way. But, without Gnome, there is not much difference I believe. [05:45] Kokito, ubuntustudio-desktop is quite different from ubuntu-desktop' [05:46] I think that is the main difference [05:46] I see [05:46] network manager is only now being included [05:46] has US the leeway to add apps that are not available in the Ubuntu repos? [05:47] * Kokito can't access https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio [05:47] Yes. Those would be: theming, ubuntustudio-controls [05:47] Don't know if there are any more [05:47] So, there isn't very much [05:48] theming = ubuntustudio-looks (and it's dependencies) [05:49] aha [05:50] what about the kernel? I read all these messages about rt and lowlatency, so was under the impression that US used a different kernel. is that the case? [05:50] There isn't really a need for any more than that, except for multimedia packages that aren't in Debian yet. And of those, I don't know if any have been uploaded to Ubuntu's repos on US's account [05:50] hopefully the generic kernel will be up to the task soon [05:50] but -lowlatency should be in the repos for us i think [05:51] Kokito, There used to be an -rt kernel, uploaded by the Ubuntu Studio team. ScottL will try uploading -lowlatency for next release [05:51] aboganI has a PPA for those kernels [05:52] For next release I will be looking at if there is something missing in Debian that Ubuntu Studio could have use for, so if something isn't there, I will probably try get it in. Sound system specific stuff in that case [05:53] I would use KXStudio as an example as well as others. [05:56] * Kokito is checking out what KXStudio is [05:57] interesting... [05:57] are there any significant differences between US and KX from a user POV? [05:58] Kokito, The guy developing KXStudio, falktx is looking to become more involved in Ubuntu Studio as well, and he hangs around here quite a lot [05:58] cool! [05:58] Kokito, There are a lot of differences. falktx is probably using everything that the linux audio world has to offer [05:59] He's trying to simplify and abstract things [06:00] that sounds like a good idea [06:00] I don't have a lot of experience with that distro yet, so I would want to see how stable it is and so on [06:01] But, there are some things that are definitely worth doing. [06:01] and looks like there can be a lot of potential synergies with US [06:02] He does some coding too, and has developed some software [06:02] For hosting plugins, session handling etc [06:05] jack runs at login on KX [06:06] Right, and pulseaudio is a client for jack. No need to work with qjackctl. A lot of the apps are newish for Linux veterans. I think that's a part of the problem for me. Too much of a big step at first, so I for one need to dig in a bit to find out what's really going on [06:11] yeah, i like stopping and starting JACK [06:11] using different profiles [06:11] but, i use the hell out of falks KXstudio PPA's :) [06:16] man, the ubuntu wiki is really sloooooooooooooow [06:17] oh oh, Internal Server Error [07:15] * abogani waves all [07:31] hey abogani [07:31] time to hit the sack here [07:31] good night folks [09:03] * abogani wonders if anyone could help him to write an email... [09:22] abogani, I don't expect that I can be of much help. I'm sure you do fine by yourself, but I could take a look if you want. [09:24] ailo: I would want avoid people misunderstanding me but it is very simple (one or two sentences). [09:26] ailo: Could you please write an email in user- and dev- notify people that maintainer for -lowlatency and -realtime kernel are vcacant, please? [09:32] abogani, I see. Well, I believe ScottL could handle that. [09:34] -lowlatency does not seem to be a big problem to mantain, but -realtime does seem like it would be best that someone who has experience would mantain that [09:35] * abogani agrees [09:36] ailo: In any case I would want make a special thanks to you. In last the months you have been the best user and the only one tester. [09:40] abogani, Thanks. It has been my pleasure to do so. btw, you live in Prato, right? My sister lives there. [09:41] ailo: Really? [09:41] She is a Java programmer in some company in Firenze [09:41] How little is the world! :) [09:42] I've been visiting a couple of times. Very nice city [09:42] ailo: I hope you are talking about Florence (and don't Prato) ;-) [09:44] Well, I don't know Prato so well. But, to me it was nice. Also in Florence. [13:56] ailo, abogani: do either of you know what kernel is used in natty currently? [13:57] 2.6.38 no ? [13:57] scott-work: Ubuntu Natty? 2.6.38-8.42 [13:57] abogani: thank you :) [16:17] T0rCh_raony, Wazzyp? [18:25] does anyone have time to test the Natty beta 2 image? We still need both amd64 and i386 images tested? [18:46] scott-work: :/ [18:46] it'll be late tonite [18:46] are we under the gun for today? [19:02] holstein: i can ask on #ubuntu-release [19:05] scott-work: i'll check in tonite after the gig [19:05] and i'll get on it if i need to :) [19:16] does Ubuntu Studio include Renoise? [19:19] Kokito: no [19:19] its not in the repos for sure [19:19] i dont think it can be? [19:20] maybe they could be talked into the software center [19:20] is Renoise a commercial product? [19:21] looks like it is [19:43] TheMuso: sorry to bother you again, could you help me with a HAL dependency issue? bug 760008 [19:43] Launchpad bug 760008 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Natty) "amd_64 studio install fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760008 [20:05] holstein: thanks, that would be awesome, be aware that it will probably fail for amd64 though [20:06] but if we can at least test the image (i.e. that it will _try_ to install), then we have met the commitment [20:06] i'll do up the i386 tonight as well [20:07] holstein: but before you start testing be sure to check: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntustudio/all [20:08] already since i started typing to you an hour ago there have been more tests completed [20:12] scott-work: cool [22:21] holstein: hold off testing until we get more information about that bug [22:48] So hal. [22:48] It has bene left in atm, we need to check to see whether anything needs it that studio uses. [23:01] ScottL: i'll check in here when i get home [23:01] before i do anything [23:03] hey guys [23:03] how is US going? [23:08] beh, later... [23:09] falktx: yeah [23:09] good to see you falktx :) [23:10] we are making some progress for the future i think [23:10] good stuff coming [23:10] cool [23:10] https://picasaweb.google.com/jorge.g.mare/UbuntuStudioArtwork#5594894720374163314 [23:10] ^ that kind of thing [23:11] * falktx checks [23:11] I have some mails to answer, but can't do it now [23:12] falktx: nah, you dont have to [23:12] its just a site theme in the works [23:12] i gotta run too [23:12] laterx [23:12] holstein: new webpage looks way cool!! [23:12] me too, laterx [23:13] falktx, [23:13] ladish is hitting debian [23:13] should be in ubuntu 11.10 [23:13] ScottL: good news [23:13] * ScottL is reading backscroll from this morning [23:13] cya [23:40] hi TheBeedle [23:40] abogani, i would love to handle the maintainence of the -lowlatency kernel