[00:27] <drc> OK, I do have one <small> complaint about 11.04b1...The notification plugin appears to take up much more space than the number of icons present would warrant.  This does not appear to be icon set dependent.  http://img832.imageshack.us/i/screenshot0412201106255.png/
[00:29] <charlie-tca> right
[00:29] <charlie-tca> it is about 3 icons big at its smallest?
[00:30] <drc> looks like 3 or 4, when only 2 are present.  At least it looks larger than if should, based on previous plugins.  I could be wrong.
[00:30] <charlie-tca> Not sure it is not a fixed size, all the time, so it can not grow too big, but can not grow too small, either.
[00:31] <charlie-tca> This is the first release we are using it in, so it might be a matter of experimenting for a while
[00:32] <drc> It could be...the plugin (in other DE's) has always been a little bigger than the number of icons, but not this big.  IIRC, of course.
[00:33] <drc> But it is a really small complaint...not a deal breaker.
[00:33] <charlie-tca> we are still learning how to make this thing work
[00:33] <charlie-tca> :-)
[00:34] <drc> And doing a good job of it too.  Just think what will happen when you do learn all the ins and outs of the new stuff :)
[00:34] <charlie-tca> scary
[00:35] <drc> Maybe you should change your nick to scary-charlie
[00:35] <charlie-tca> heh
[00:36] <drc> I especially like what you all have dome with the menu...very little that I would want to delete from there, as opposed to 4.6
[00:42] <drc> Do I need to file a bug on the Indicator Plugin?
[00:45] <charlie-tca> sure
[00:45] <drc> launchpad?
[00:45] <charlie-tca> mark it for xfce-indicator, please
[00:45] <charlie-tca> yup
[00:46] <drc> ok, will do sometime tonight...promise (but dinner calls now :)
[00:47] <charlie-tca> ubuntu-bug xfce4-indicator-plugin
[00:54] <drc> That wasn't dinner, it was the dog's dinner :(
[00:58] <drc> charlie-tca: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin/+bug/759312  Anything more needed?
[02:09] <charlie-tca> i went to dinner
[02:12] <charlie-tca> drc: looks good
[02:16] <drc> OK...then I'll go have <my> dinner...if the dog didn't get it.
[06:36] <rshakin> df
[07:33] <quup> I got xubuntu 11.04 beta yesterday, by default it tries to use a bunch of nonexisting screensavers
[07:34] <quup> (like glsnake or something, it just gives an exit code in yellow )
[07:35] <bazhang> quup, #ubuntu+1 for beta
[07:36] <quup> oh I don't even want a screensaver, just figured someone liked to know
[07:37] <Sysi> !bug
[08:01] <quup> is there some xfce way to make capslock act like control or should I use xmodmap?
[08:05] <TheSheep> quup: no need to use xmodmap, you can just run dpkg-reconfigure console
[08:05] <TheSheep> sorry, that's console-setup
[08:08] <Sysi> (hey that way i'd get left control to this netbook)
[08:12] <quup> TheSheep: it didn't ask about that stuff
[08:14] <quup> TheSheep: did find /etc/defalut/keyboard though
[08:16] <quup> I put ctrl:nocaps there
[08:17] <TheSheep> quup: I think there is some option to make it ask all the questions
[10:31] <uqbar_> Any idea when/whether XFCE 4.8 will make its way to xubuntu?
[10:31] <Sysi> in 11.04
[10:31] <Sysi> so, at the end of this month
[10:32] <psalden> hey folks... I'd like to use gnome3, and since installing it seems to break ubuntu/unity, I was thinking about running xubuntu and install it on top of that. However, won't it break that too?
[10:33] <uqbar_> Thanks, these are great news to me.
[10:35] <uqbar_> I'd like to know how to check the amount of RAM in use with XFCE. I've just switched to it from GNOME and would like to know how "light" it is. Any hint?
[10:36] <psalden> I guess 'top' in terminal
[10:37] <Sysi> psalden: gnome3 breaks unity yeah, shouldn't break xfce
[10:37] <Sysi> xfce uses maybe like 300MB
[10:38] <Sysi> unused memory is wasted mamory, unix-like systems should use everything available for cache
[10:42] <psalden> Sysi: cool, so then my solution should work... thanks :)
[10:43] <uqbar_> I would use ps, but am not really shure which processes should I loot at. Which processes make XFCE up?
[12:02] <quup> can I have xfce terminal open links by just clicking (or ctrl clicking) so I don't have to right click -> open link ?
[12:02] <Sysi> middle click
[12:02] <quup> ah
[12:03] <quup> any other way?
[12:03] <quup> (tricky to middle click with the trackpad)
[12:03] <Sysi> not afaik, if you find out how to change it, tell me
[12:03] <quup> will do :)
[12:03] <TheSheep> two-finger tap works as middle click afair
[12:03]  * quup plugs in mouse
[12:04] <quup> TheSheep: I dont have such a fancy trackpad :)
[12:07] <TheSheep> I think you can enable that with synaptics
[12:08] <TheSheep> !info gsynaptics
[12:18] <quup> is there some list of known gtk issues in xfce?
[12:23] <quup> seems buttons don't get keybord typing events
[12:27] <quup> or maybe it's taht it now throws error instead of warning for integer argument instead of float
[13:56] <quup> when launching a .desktop thing
[13:57] <quup> what PATH is used to find executables?
[13:57] <charlie-tca> The path in the .desktop file, if there is one. Otherwise, the system defined PATH,
[13:58] <quup> ok, I want to ensure that it can acces ~/bin
[13:58] <charlie-tca> usually it includes /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, /usr/sbin
[13:58] <quup> guess I should just change system path then
[13:58] <charlie-tca> ~/bin is not normally in the path, unless added by you
[13:58] <quup> yea
[13:59] <quup> I have added it but only for bash
[14:07] <Lord_Rahl> ? for someone. I just install xubuntu 11.04, everything seem except I have no icon for a network widget in the notification area in menu bar
[14:08] <quup> charlie-tca: seems it found stuff in ~/bin without me having to do anything special :)
[14:35] <jpiche> does anyone know how to get NetworkManager working without indicator-applet in 11.04?
[14:45] <charlie-tca> These installs without network-manager applet, I can't seem to reproduce.
[14:45] <charlie-tca> I get an applet everytime
[14:46] <charlie-tca> You do have indicator-plugin in the panel, right?
[14:47] <jpiche> oh I have network manager, but it's stolen from the notification area by indicator-plugin, and when I remove indicator-plugin, nm-applet doesn't reappear
[14:47] <charlie-tca> yup
[14:48] <charlie-tca> no indicator plugin, no applet
[14:48] <charlie-tca> That is a change we could not control
[14:48] <jpiche> there is no way to get nm out of indicator-plugin?
[14:48] <charlie-tca> nope
[14:48] <jpiche> wow, that's terrible
[14:49] <charlie-tca> What was wrong with indicator plugin being there?
[14:50] <jpiche> I don't need it; it doesn't give me any useful information that other things don't give
[14:51] <jpiche> and when I have indicator-plugin in the panel, the volume control is still in the notification area--thus duplicated
[14:52] <Lord_Rahl> I have a differnt problem mine is there but I have no icon it box witha red X
[14:52] <charlie-tca> jpiche: Maybe someone in #ubuntu+1 will have a way to make it work without indicator plugin
[14:53] <charlie-tca> Lord_Rahl: but networking works, right?
[14:53] <drc> jpiche: I solved the double volume control by turning off the Volume Control in Session and Startup...not elegant, but it worked
[14:53] <Lord_Rahl> charlie-tca, yup
[14:53] <drc> jpiche: I solved the double volume control by turning off the Volume Control in Session and Startup...not elegant, but it worked
[14:53] <jpiche> Lord_Rahl, I had that until I added indicator-plugin to the panel
[14:53] <charlie-tca> Lord_Rahl: can you file a bug for that?
[14:54] <Lord_Rahl> sure
[15:06] <Lord_Rahl> jpiche, your right that worked
[15:09] <charlie-tca> jpiche: is the applet missing or is there a blank instead of an icon?
[15:09] <charlie-tca> I did have one release, it never showed the icon, but the applet was there if I clicked the space in the panel
[15:10] <jpiche> if i remove indicator-plugin, nm-applet is just missing
[15:26] <Lord_Rahl> did they a menu editor in 11.04
[15:26] <Lord_Rahl> if so what the program name
[15:27] <charlie-tca> You can use alacarte
[15:27] <charlie-tca> any freedestko
[15:27] <Lord_Rahl> ok that what install then
[15:27] <charlie-tca> any freedesktop compliant menu editor should work
[15:27] <charlie-tca> install     alacarte
[15:27] <charlie-tca> it is a menu editor
[15:28] <Lord_Rahl> it states that this is install  (gnome-menus)
[15:28] <Lord_Rahl> but i can not find it
[15:29] <charlie-tca> what says what is installed?
[15:29] <Lord_Rahl> ubuntu software center states it a menu editor. I do it by hand now but it be nice not to have to
[15:32] <Lord_Rahl> NM I read it wrong.
[15:32] <Lord_Rahl> it is a "implementation of the draft "Desktop Menu Specification" from freedesktop.org:"
[15:34] <Lord_Rahl> Guess I keep doing them by hand. If I install alacarte it bring a whole lot of stuff along
[15:39] <drc> Lord_Rahl, charlie-tca : I seem to remember seeing this menu editor installed in other xfce distros as well (and 4.6 to boot) and often wondered why a gnome editor was in xfce, especially when one could never find/use it.
[15:39] <charlie-tca> because it works?
[15:40] <drc> charlie-tca: in xfce 4.6?
[15:40] <charlie-tca> There are very few menu editors available.
[15:40] <charlie-tca> no, Not in 4.6
[15:40] <charlie-tca> I know xubuntu did not install it for that.
[15:41] <drc> charlie-tca: I could be misremembering...but I <think> that I saw it in xubuntu 10.10 and definately LMDE-XFCE, both 4.6
[15:41] <charlie-tca> nope
[15:42] <charlie-tca> 10.10 did not have a menu editor unless it was installed along with Ubuntu 10.10
[15:42] <charlie-tca> We haven't been able to edit menus since Xfce 4.4, and so we did not install any editor
[15:43] <drc> ok, I bow to your obviouslysuperior knowledge.  Maybe it comes from checking too many distros recently searching for an alternative to gnome3/shell/unity  :)
[15:43] <charlie-tca> That will confuse anyone!
[15:46] <Lord_Rahl> in reading the limited description I guessing it used to create *.desktop files and the menu core xml files
[15:49] <Lord_Rahl> I am suprised somehas not created a simple app to edit xfce menus
[15:49] <Lord_Rahl> someone*
[15:49] <TheSheep> Lord_Rahl: it's on the todo
[15:49] <Lord_Rahl> lol k
[15:49] <TheSheep> Lord_Rahl: the work continues since a couple of years actually
[15:49] <TheSheep> Lord_Rahl: turns out that "simple" is an overstatement
[15:49] <Lord_Rahl> there a beta I can try
[15:50] <TheSheep> no idea, you'd have to look at the xfce web page/mailing list
[15:50] <TheSheep> or ask on their channel
[15:50] <Lord_Rahl> ok will do
[16:42] <djkca> Does anyone have time for a newbie question?
[16:42] <TheSheep> !hi
[16:42] <charlie-tca> !anyone
[16:43] <djkca> thanks.  i have installed xubuntu for the first time in a vm.  trying to find the file with the static network settings.  expecting to find it in /etc/net/interfaces but not finding my eth interface there
[16:43] <djkca> sorry /etc/network/interfaces
[16:43] <djkca> all i find in there are the lo settings
[16:44] <TheSheep> the rest is autodetected and configured by network manager
[16:44] <charlie-tca> Since networking is now controlled by network manager, unless you manually add the settings to /etc/network/interfaces, it is not there
[16:44] <TheSheep> but you can add to that file your own stuff if you want
[16:44] <djkca> so it does not put the settings into a file somewhere?  are the settings from network manager persistent?
[16:45] <charlie-tca> yes, very persistent
[16:45] <Sysi> it saves them to home folder
[16:46] <djkca> ahhh.  ok i will look in there.  thanks everyone
[17:16] <drc> Is there any way in Thunar to get the file names (in icon view) to be center, rather than right, oriented?
[17:18] <TheSheep> drc: you might try asking at #thunar or #xfce
[17:18] <drc> er...the <other> right (i.e., left oriented)
[17:18] <drc> TheSheep: Thanks I will
[17:19] <TheSheep> you might be able to do that with a gtk theme, for example
[17:19] <TheSheep> but you would need to know the name of that control
[17:21] <drc> TheSheep: I'm just looking for a simple way...doesn't bother me <that> much.
[18:09] <Lord_Rahl> what is the default theme in xubuntu 11.04
[18:10] <Sysi> graybird
[18:10] <Lord_Rahl> thanks
[18:12] <Sysi> http://shimmerproject.org/projects/greybird/
[20:02] <drc> Interesting...while one can put an app on the panel now, the same appears not to be true for a file.
[20:03] <drc> design or feature?
[20:04] <Sysi> that would need to be like launcher for application to open specific file, nobody thought it was needed or just didn't do it
But GNOME has it....</whine>
[20:05] <charlie-tca> why would you put a file on a panel?
[20:05] <charlie-tca> Isn't that what the desktop is for?
[20:05] <drc> I like to put whatever e-book I'm reading at the time on the panel...that way I don't have to go looking for it nested in Calibre's in-depth file system
[20:06] <drc> charlie-tca: the are <no> icons on my desktop....that's for windows
[20:06] <charlie-tca> Put the ebook on the desktop, it will be fully visible
[20:07] <charlie-tca> You can even use Applications -> Workspaces to tell maximized applications not to cover the entire desktop
[20:07] <Sysi> desktop icons are somewhat ugly and unhandy, but fit some purposes
[20:07] <Sysi> i have everything in panel on windows too
[20:07] <drc> I never could understand the logic oh ahving the icons on the desktop and then covering them up with windows.
[20:07] <charlie-tca> Well, I guess to each his own
[20:08] <charlie-tca> You don't have to cover them in Xubuntu. You can actually tell it not to cover all the desktop
[20:08] <drc> true dat
[20:09] <charlie-tca> My workspace margins are set such that I can always see the first column of icons on the desktop
[20:09] <charlie-tca> No window is allowed to cover them
[20:10] <drc> ok, that's two.... :)
[20:13] <drc> Can one file a "wish for" instead of a bug in launchpad?
[20:13] <charlie-tca> sure
[20:14] <drc> He asks, knowing there are much more important things to fix first
[20:14] <charlie-tca> We got one wishlist bug fixed for this release, it was filed in 2006
[20:15] <charlie-tca> anything is possible!
[20:19] <drc> Misquote from somewhere: "In an infinite universe, all things are possible, some are just more possible that others."
[20:24] <drc> Is there any difference in filing a bug report and a wish-for report?
[20:24]  * drc has more hope than sense
[20:26] <charlie-tca> nope
[20:27] <charlie-tca> file both the same way, but put in the comments that the bug is a wishlist bug
[20:29] <drc> done...now, if only I'll be still alive when this gets to the top of the queue...
[20:30] <drc> thank you charlie-tca
[20:30] <charlie-tca> jSome happen fast, some take longer...
[20:30] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[21:20] <drc> Is there a difference between the Xubuntu and the XFCE session at the login screen?
[21:20] <charlie-tca> yes
[21:21] <charlie-tca> xfce session looks bad, and uses different menus
[21:21] <charlie-tca> well, puts more in the menu, I guess
[21:21] <drc> Now I <gotta> just look...brb :)
[21:21]  * charlie-tca thinks that is not the right description of the session, though
[21:22] <Unit193> That's the only session that works with FreeNX
[21:22] <charlie-tca> How would you describe it?
[21:23] <Unit193> No bar on top
[21:23] <Unit193> XFCE icon on application menu
[21:28] <drc> charlie-tca: You are totally correct (again)...the menu(s) are somewhat different, especially in the Settings menu.  Booting into XFCE also reset my Workspace Switcher back to the default 4 (even when I booted back into the Xubuntu session.)
[21:45] <quup> when I go fullscreen in mplayer that dock thing is still visible, can I either make it completely unseen when autohidden or a layer below mplayers fullscren layer?
[21:51] <charlie-tca> What dock thing?
[21:51] <charlie-tca> xubuntu shouldn't have a dock
[21:58] <drc> Maybe he means the bottom panel in 4.8 that can <look> like a dock?
[21:59] <charlie-tca> but that is a hidden panel, it should not appear
[21:59] <drc> Shoulda Woulda Coulda :)
[22:04] <Sysi> if autohiding panel is always visible, it's stucked
[22:04] <charlie-tca> yup
[22:04] <Sysi> relogin usually helps
[22:05] <charlie-tca> it would be nice if quup would respond. It makes it much easier when the person wanting answers is around after asking the question.
[22:09] <knome> i think supporting people is more exciting when you don't know if the answer helped or not
[22:09] <charlie-tca> heh
[22:09] <charlie-tca> I hadn't thought of it that way.
[22:10] <charlie-tca> I did get one right the other day, when the question was "Can anyone help me? I don't know if it should do this?"
[22:11] <drc> I think figuring out the <real> question is the most exciting part...once that's done the answer is often trivial in comparison.
[22:12] <charlie-tca> You just have to learn to answer before it get asks :-)
[22:12] <Sysi> i'm nowdays pretty good at guessing what people actually want
[22:12] <drc> But when I do that, usually I have the wrong <real> question.
[22:13] <knome> what you actually need to learn is how to answer the real question and then come up with a reason why you need to go now so you don't need to answer the boring questions ;)
[22:13] <drc> And I look even more like an idiot than I really am (I hope).
[22:14] <drc> "Play with puppy" is my favoritie...and true too
[22:14] <Sysi> i wonder if i'll some day dare to ask for ubuntu membership for my helping here
[22:14] <knome> because when people notice you know things, they start to ask stupid questions, like "wait, if i move the mouse right, will the cursor also move towards the right end of the monitor"
[22:15] <drc> or PM you....
[22:15] <knome> Sysi, don't you remember you have also given valuable feedback for the artwork created for xubuntu
[22:16] <Sysi> still most i've done is in irc
[22:16] <knome> imo that's not a reason not to give you the membership
[22:17] <knome> things you can do in irc are undervalued in the ubuntu community
[22:17] <Sysi> people have gotten memberships from irc job still
[22:17] <Sysi> but it easily feels like you aren't actually doing something
[22:17] <knome> sure
[22:18] <Sysi> (not exactly xubuntu discussion)
[22:20] <Sysi> i'd need xfce 4.8 for creating vertical-panel setup :/
[22:20] <knome> 14 days...
[22:21] <Sysi> on 16:9 monitor seems just stupid to have panel at the bottom
[22:21] <charlie-tca> choices! I really like that panel, myself
[22:21] <Sysi> it's always the decision about testing or keeping the working one
[22:22] <knome> i have two panels on the other monitor, and none on the other
[22:22] <charlie-tca> Of course, I enjoy my 22" monitor, too. I suppose that matters when it comes to screens