[00:18] popey, popey, popey: rule one of not understanding doctormo's "Understanding" blog entries: Post a comment saying it's still too confusing. [00:19] Just listening to the UK podcast now :-) [02:03] nigelb, pleia2: Like my groklaw tribute? http://doctormo.deviantart.com/art/Groklaw-PJ-Tribute-204801749 [02:06] I didn't even know that site was still around [02:12] jcastro: Groklaw? sure is. [02:12] Well for another month or so [02:14] doctormo, that's cool [02:15] akgraner: Thought it good to do a tribute. Quite pleased with the drawing skill practice too ;-) [02:15] How has your day been? [02:15] bruce byfield's article about it was picked up by slashdot Monday [02:15] doctormo, humbling [02:16] re my day [02:16] akgraner: Oh? I forget which bruce byfield article, can you link? [02:17] I've had a bit of a long day with a job interview and a bunch of project work. [02:17] I posted a blog post (in a hurry) and it was the first time my boss exercised the use of Bold in an email to me :-/ [02:18] let's just ouch... [02:18] say even [02:18] * Pendulum hugs akgraner [02:19] doctormo, Eulogy for Groklaw - http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/Eulogy-for-Groklaw [02:19] Ah right, I did read that one... slashdotted you say? I didn't know slashdot was still around. [02:19] Pendulum, she was right :-) but I was embarrassed...(to say the least) [02:20] * doctormo hugs akgraner too [02:20] Pendulum, but I'll take the hug and say thanks! [02:20] yep it's still around...slashdot that is [02:21] but I learned what 'NRFPT' meant today :-) [02:22] akgraner: even if it's deserved, hugs are still appropriate! [02:30] :-) [02:30] anyone seen nigel? I need to pester him about a pet project :) [02:32] he went to bed last I talked to him [02:32] rad, thanks akgraner :) [02:40] paultag, no problem - oh and holstein was talking about how cool you are [02:40] I think he has about decided to seek Ubuntu membership [02:41] akgraner: haha, awesome. He's a wicked cool guy, I hope he goes for it! [02:41] smart, too [02:42] have you heard him play? [02:42] akgraner: no! Have you? [02:43] yep - online but Pete, JFo, and the kids have seen in play at one of the local bars here [02:43] damn, cool [02:43] akgraner: he plays the git-fiddle, aye? [02:43] i think holstein has a man-crush on paultag ;) [02:43] ScottL: awwww :) [02:44] bass [02:44] oh right [02:44] me too :) [02:44] akgraner, i hope holstein does go for membership, i started pushing him after you told me too [02:44] :-) cool [02:44] paultag, yeah, we need to record some songs for ocelot...i'll make sure they get on the image :P [02:44] ScottL, he talks about you as well [02:44] ScottL: dude, for sure! [02:44] ScottL: I can lay down some accordion, bass or a bit of keyboard :) [02:44] well brags on you as well I should say [02:46] akgraner, awww, that's sweet :) [02:46] it was his idea to revive the wnclug... [02:46] akgraner: how's that going? [02:46] sometimes it's more ubuntu but that's cool too [02:47] * paultag *coughs* LoCo *cough* [02:47] honestly the LUG group is doing better than the local team [02:47] LoCo I mean [02:47] akgraner: damn. looks like holstein needs to kick the loco's ass [02:47] he has... [02:48] :-) the NC LoCo team lead needs to get off her slacker arse and do something encouraging and motivational :-P [02:49] :) [02:49] looks like the Raleigh area will have a release party :-) talked to one of the guys up that way this morning [02:50] we'll make go/no-go decision on Friday [02:51] akgraner: We've had our MA event for the year, paultag are you coming back? Would you come back if I said I had a man-crush? ;-) [02:51] doctormo: actually.... one moment [02:51] hahaha...you all make me smile! [02:52] doctormo: damn! I head back from MA on the 25th. Tea man-date in leau? [02:52] paultag: Yep, Harvard Sq for some much needed Tealux? [02:52] doctormo: did they move to harvard square? [02:53] that's the red line IIRC, yeah? [02:53] yeah, rd == harvard [02:53] doctormo: yeah, I can do that, np! [02:53] wow, sed s/rd/red/g [02:56] doctormo: let's chat a bit later on, I've got to run. It's settled, though, mandate between 4/21 -> 4/25 [02:56] paultag: They closed down the Newbury street tealux man. [02:56] doctormo: for good?! [02:56] yes [02:56] doctormo: I was there when they closed it because of the lease [02:56] doctormo: but they said they'd move to another place on newbury [02:57] No heard if there's a new place yet. I've been asking tho [02:57] doctormo: aye, well shucks! [02:57] doctormo: no thai basil (bay/sill) this time, methinks [02:57] paultag: Oh why? there's a really nice pet mak alloy mak mak tuk tuk place near by. [02:58] doctormo: oh jeez, now everyone's wondering why i'm chortling [02:58] doctormo: sure, sounds good [02:59] email me when interrupting my diary! [02:59] doctormo: will do :) [02:59] akgraner: much love, catch you later! [02:59] ScottL: you're the man now, dawg [02:59] later, all, one love [03:00] laters [06:56] * nigelb hugs JFo [07:34] morning ara :) [07:34] morning nigelb, all [07:51] hola dpm [07:51] hey nigelb [07:51] good morning all [07:53] rocking uadw :) [07:54] I've had a few people getting very excited about the qt sessions :) [07:54] oh, that's really cool - you should tell them that there are lots more coming up :) [07:55] yup, I did :) [07:55] excellent :) [07:56] Maybe because we're at this very interesting point of gnome3 release, unity coming to standard desktops, I've found lots of interest this time. [07:57] Or maybe this is the third time and we're really rocking uadw :P [07:59] probably a combination of the two ;) [07:59] * dpm goes and wikifies the logs [08:03] hahah doctormo [08:10] good morning [08:10] hey good morning dholbach! [08:11] hey dpm [08:17] hey doctormo [08:17] hello popey! [08:31] UADW logs are now wikified for your viewing pleasure - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAppDeveloperWeek/Timetable - spread the word! :-) [08:40] morning all [08:45] * nigelb laughs in the general direction of popey ;) [09:00] Morning [09:03] hey kim0 :) [09:04] nigelb: hey o/ [09:13] * popey tickles nigelb [09:24] * nigelb hugs popey [09:32] hey kim0, hey duanedesign and popey === daker_ is now known as daker [11:04] what do you think of this? http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/sessionprototype.html [11:05] my thought is that it could be something generated by summit [11:06] at http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/sessions/session-slug [11:06] or similar. With embedded link to an etherpad with the nano theme so you just get the editable area in a summit page [11:07] I have that glass! [11:09] and it includes a QR code pointing at the page, my thought is that the page itself (without the embedded etherpad) would be printable and would be the sheet stuck on the door [11:09] AlanBell: I like! [11:09] so walk into room, scan QR on the way in, have session description and notepad in front of you by the time you sit down [11:11] AlanBell: /very/ nice [11:11] view the source, I just knocked it up in gedit in 2 minutes [11:11] Its probably just an iframe right? [11:11] it is [11:12] pad url?_theme=nano [11:13] AlanBell: that content you have got there, where does that come from? is the pad empty, or is there stuff on it ? [11:13] I pasted in some random stuff from last UDS [11:13] ok, perhaps you can script it to pull in the blueprint content? [11:13] the pad could be prepopulated a little bit [11:14] maybe, or there could be a blueprint link in the top [11:14] things I would try to prepopulate would be the session title and hash tags [11:17] hopefully jcastro will get all excited about this and command a minion to implement it [11:19] my opinion is that this is what turns Etherpad from an alternative equivalent to Gobby that works a bit better, to something fundamentally superior in terms of the integration we can do with it. [11:20] i cant see the point of the QR code [11:20] people don't take photos of qr codes with their laptops do they? [11:20] it is slightly questionable [11:20] tablet devices might be able to take advantage of it [11:20] if they support contenteditable [11:21] * popey wonders which tablet devices these might be [11:21] which basically means Android as the ipad is just for buying pretty hats [11:23] http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/shiny-thing-make-it-all-better-201001282420/ [11:29] well there's two issues [11:30] 1. the ipad has no camera [11:30] 2. etherpad doesn't work in safari on the ipad [11:30] * nigelb resisits trolling popey on that. [11:30] which makes me think that QR codes are kinda a pointless addition right now given only a very small number of people will actually be able to use it [11:31] smart move nigelb [11:31] so drop the QR code [11:31] only did it because I could [11:31] :) [11:32] does pad.lv support blueprints? [11:32] if so a pad.lv link on the door might be as useful [11:32] why not have it there? those that can take advantage, will those that dont neeed it, who cares? [11:32] and pasted into the irc channel [11:32] * jussi wonders if we can do ascii art QR codes :P [11:33] jussi: merely thinking time is a pressure, and if people focus on doing stuff that 0.1% of people can use will possibly detract from actually making the rest of it work [11:33] popey: not yet I think. pad.lv page doesn't say anything baout blue prints [11:33] bummer [11:33] we could request it [11:33] * nigelb does just that [11:33] or just use some other shortening service [11:34] the QR code is just: https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?chs=150x150&cht=qr&chl=http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/sessionprototype.html&choe=UTF-8.png [11:34] popey: that means doing that manually for every blueprint, painful ^-^ [11:34] i.e. put what you want the QR to point to inside that google charts URL, get an image with the QR in it [11:34] nigelb: no, it doesnt [11:34] shortening services have APIs [11:34] loop through all of them,true. [11:35] * nigelb has code somewhere for bit.ly and goo.gl [11:35] and python code that too. [11:35] so it should be actually trivial. [11:36] oh, who wants to help theme etherpad tonight? [12:06] http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/sessionprototype.html gave it some divs and floats to use space better at the top [13:35] Poing, anyone else having problems with the images on http://www.ubuntu.com/community/countdown ? [13:35] I filed #760618, just want confirmation before I go bug someone else. [13:36] Poing? [13:36] it's a ping and a pong all in one [13:36] ping/pong/poing [13:36] wouldnt it be ping poing pong, like syn synack ack? [13:37] * maco googles to doublecheck that's right [13:37] bug 760618 [13:37] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/760618 [13:37] haha! Pici caused a riot ;p [13:37] woo wikipedia agrees [13:37] oh, new bot called Pici :p [13:38] Pici: cant see them here on FF4 [13:38] * vish tries chrome [13:39] Pici: I can confirm a 404 [13:39] http://www.ubuntu.com/countdown/banner1.png is the image URL [13:39] Pici: yup, broken there too.. i think it is showing last cycles countdown [13:40] there == chrome [13:40] AlanBell: Do you see anything at that link? [13:40] a 404 error page [13:40] Pici: thorsten did the banner for last cycle, not for Natty [13:41] and iirc, the other winners were different this time too [13:42] vish: those were the images for this cycle, I put one on http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/ a couple of days ago [13:42] AlanBell: it's not there anymore :-/ [13:43] yup [13:45] AlanBell: the winners this time were » , Riku Lu, Anatoliy Babchuk (takashtuka) and Dave (I Heart Ubuntu). > http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/ubuntu-natty-release-countdown-banners-chosen/ [13:45] thats the old Maverick page.. something borked [13:46] and someone seems to have restored from backup [13:46] * vish agrees with jcastro ; OMG is news! :D [13:47] Okay, I've done enough damage this morning, time to get back to work ;) [13:49] * jussi zaps nigelb [13:50] * nigelb cuts down jussi with lightsaber [14:13] AlanBell: preopoluation would be cool [14:13] AlanBell: I would just tell people to make the URL when they file the blueprint [14:13] no need really [14:14] if you don't create the URL then the page will be there with a create a pad button in it [14:15] refresh to see what I mean [14:16] I am just pointing it at primarypad because that has a bunch of interesting plugins installed like the image URL one [14:22] refresh on which page? [14:51] http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/sessionprototype.html [14:51] I pointed it at a pad that doesn't exist yet [14:52] ok [14:52] cool [14:52] how did you do this? [14:52] so the first person who wants to presses the button and it creates the pad [14:52] view source:) [14:52] 2 minutes in gedit [14:53] oh [14:53] I thought you had like spidered the BPs in LP and autogenerated it [14:53] no, but it is all information that is on the session blocks in summit [14:54] right [14:54] this is slick [14:54] so with some django magic make a URL like http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/sessions/session-slug [14:55] and generate a similar page for each session, and have it linked from the blocks in the timetable [14:55] Daviey: can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/guidebook-rebrand/+merge/57591 ? we might want to put this out before too many people install the old app [14:58] so you would go to the page of the day like this http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/2010-10-25/ and click on a session to get to the details and notes page for that session [15:11] yeah [15:11] or just put the URL in the blueprint [15:11] that was my plan for my sessions [15:13] you mean on the whiteboard of the blueprint? [15:39] AlanBell: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-unity-developer-participation [15:39] for example [15:39] see "Set URL for this specification" [15:43] yeah [15:43] so you were going to put etherpad URLS there [15:45] right [15:45] normally people put the wiki page there [15:45] from back in the day when we used the wiki for specs [15:45] dholbach: hah man, remember what /crap/ that used to be? [15:46] well this would not conflict with that plan at all [16:42] I am for whatever is best [17:13] <--- late lunch [17:19] jcastro: get me some! [17:51] you need to use sudo [17:55] lol [17:56] mhall119: good one [17:56] today I made classbot not work because of a typo. sigh. [18:04] alright my friends - I call it a day - see you all tomorrow *HUGS* [18:08] see you dholbach! [18:11] bye dpm [18:12] @launchpadbugs should be updated so it use pad.lv instead of bit.ly === daker is now known as daker_ [18:19] so to implement my cunning plan it seems I need to add a pattern to the urls.py, then do something schedule/views.py [18:27] AlanBell: what cunning plan is this? [18:53] popey: ping [19:02] mhall119: extending summit to have a per-session page [19:03] http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/sessionprototype.html [19:03] bit like that perhaps [19:03] including undecorated etherpad in an iframe [19:03] and possibly freenode webchat to the room channel alongside [19:19] what do you think mhall119? [19:20] Daviey too [19:21] AlanBell, i like. [19:21] AlanBell, Attendees section won't scale [19:31] AlanBell: we're planning a per-room page [19:33] I can see the benefit of per-session though [19:33] mhall119, a per room page with iframed etherpad? [19:33] Daviey: we were going to embed the webchat [19:33] per-room etherpad doesn't sound terribly useful [19:34] mhall119, webchat is less exciting to me than etherpad tbh. [19:34] but for the in-room projectors it would be nice [19:34] which was the purpose of the per-room pages [19:34] we already have a working solution, ablest hacky , for projector irc [19:34] I say we do both [19:34] we still have 3 weeks until UDS [19:35] which means we don't even need to get started for another 2.5 weeks [19:35] ;) [19:35] mhall119, we'll have to meta refresh, and have hooks for displaying other content [19:35] good point about the attendees section [19:35] "I pitty the foo" [19:36] mhall119, hell, landing features during the week has been known :) [19:36] yeah, it happened 6 months ago [19:37] and 16, 18, 24 [19:37] 16 months ago huh? [19:37] * AlanBell hands Daviey a copy of the 6 times table [19:38] lol [20:12] doctormo: pong [20:50] popey: Re uk podcast, you guys didn't mention that it was my blog post. Or that my attempted clarification was a failure. [20:50] It sounded like my thing was some official post. [20:50] doctormo: the whole thing is a failure [20:50] popey: The podcast wasn't that bad ;-) [20:50] IMHO [20:50] hehe [20:50] good! [20:50] it never ceases to amaze me that people actually listen to it! [20:51] Well when you link to my blog, I admit I do listen more keenly :-P [20:51] heh [20:51] feedback is always welcome! in any kind [20:51] we can take negative critisism :) [20:52] Remember to mention the authors of posts when they're saying something that isn't official canonical canon. [20:52] wilco! [20:52] i think the issue this week was we discussed it before we went live [20:52] trying to figure out what we were going to say [20:53] laura said that she didnt understand it 'even with the blog' [20:53] 'what blog' [20:53] 'martin owens blog' [20:53] 'yeah, i didnt understand it either' [20:53] and thus the conversation didnt happen 'on record' [20:53] when we discuss stuff pre-show usually someone shouts 'SAVE IT FOR THE SHOW!' [20:53] Ah yeah, that makes more sense, few words filled in the gaps. [20:54] to shut people up so such incidents dont happen, that didnt happen this week [20:56] IMO copyright assignment without payment is theft by social organization; I don't like it. But anything that incourages understanding is important. So if I can grab laura on irc to talk about the post, I can post a new one which hopefully will be more understandable. [21:12] feel free to contact us via any one of the means outlined on the website ;) [21:12] also #ubuntu-uk-podcast [21:18] "copyright assignment without payment is theft by social organization [21:18] " [21:19] really? wow [21:27] Aloha [21:27] doctormo: "copyright assignment" without payment is legally dubious in some jurisdictions too ;) [21:27] that's why they have the alternative thing in there too [21:29] mhall119: I'm fairly strong on the issue, other people aren't so much. [21:30] JanC: Alternative thing? [21:30] the thing where you license the code to them to do whatever they want [21:30] let me check the exact wording ;) [21:30] Ah effective public domain, I find that actually slightly more acceptable. [21:31] more like some sort of CC0 [21:31] i don't see how voluntary copyright assignment is any more "theft" than voluntarily using a permissive license [21:31] although it only gives them the rights CC0 would give everybody [21:32] mhall119: that ^^^ [21:32] mhall119: Because it's not voluntary, not really. If you want your code to be relevant and used, then you pretty much have to agree to have your copyright taken from you. [21:32] Of course I guess we do have a choice not to be involved in those projects. [21:32] Or fork them. [21:32] doctormo: okay, so how is that different from contributing to a GPL or BSD code project? [21:33] mhall119: "the same rule for everybody" ? [21:33] not for BSD [21:33] mhall119: a) you get to keep your copyright, moral rights and other properties, b) you get guarentees that the other contributors can't use your code outside of the GPL. [21:34] *without permission first [21:34] you can also submit the same or derivative code to two different places [21:34] doctormo: you don't lose your copyright when you sign a contributor agreement [21:34] once youve signed over the copyright on one, you cant send the same thing elsewhere [21:34] mhall119: have you read it? (the Canonical one, not the FSF one) [21:34] doctormo: I did a while ago [21:35] if you live in a place that allows losing your author's rights, you lose them [21:35] hmmm, I'll have to go back and read it again, I don't recall it saying that [21:35] mhall119: Copyright assignment is not dual copyright ownership, check the wording again. The FSF agreement is more palatable in that it allows you to keep rights. [21:36] Unless it explicitly says what rights you keep, you loose them. IANAL [21:36] Canonical licenses your code back to you to do whatever you want (but only your code) [21:36] IIRC [21:36] maco: That's actually why I like the public domain option, because it allows anyone to take the patch as a single work and reuse it. [21:37] JanC: okay, I see that now [21:37] s/public domain/CC0/ please [21:37] maybe I was thinking of the FSF or Sun contributor agreements [21:38] or similar to CC0, like the WTFPL ;) [21:38] Maybe I was thinking of the previous wording, I see it that text there now. [21:39] What does IIRC mean? I've always wanted to ask. [21:39] okay, so Canonical requires that you give up your copyright claims to code you contribute to their projects [21:39] Michael Meeks gave an interesting talk about LibO at FOSDEM which included some interesting stuff about licensing [21:40] I can see the problems people might have with that [21:40] but in practice, it's not required for very many projects [21:41] mhall119: It wasn't required for anything critical until Ubuntu 11.04, it's getting harder to contribute. [21:41] I don't think there are any projects that require a contributor agreement where you might be submitting the same code somwehere else [21:41] doctormo: you talking about Unity? [21:41] Unity, Indicators, bunch of different things. Jockey has been there for a while of course. [21:42] mhall119: To me, it's the principle of the matter. We're not considered equal and trust worthy partners, and given no guarentees about misuse of our works. [21:42] all stuff that originated from Canonical from the looks of it [21:43] doctormo: you think there's any guarantee they can give that won't just draw more criticism? [21:43] mhall119: That's the only stuff they could possible have copyright assignment on. [21:44] technically they can have copyright assigned for anything the authors want to give it up on [21:44] mhall119: If they said that it was acceptable to copyright assign to the ubuntu foundation and that the text included a 2v passage to only use foss licenses. That would draw praise I believe. [21:45] mhall119: Technically I could mug you with a banana, code could go directly upstream. [21:45] I don't think the ubuntu foundation exists in any meaningful sense anymore [21:45] No, I know [21:47] mhall119: wasn't it always supposed to be dormant, sitting on a pile of cash in case Canonical goes away? [21:48] AlanBell: I don't know, I thought it was supposed to be more of a layer between Canonical and the community [21:49] or between Canonical and Ubuntu itself [21:49] nah, it has $10,000,000 squirreled away in a trust fund or something [21:49] yeah, it does have that [21:49] but I thought it was supposed to be more active [21:50] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Foundation [21:50] mhall119: It's a will and tesiment thing I think. [21:51] ok [21:51] just out of curiosity, has Canonical ever taken something open and made it closed? [21:59] yo yo yo - guess who is speaking at OSCON this year? woot woot woot! [22:01] \o/ yay, subject? [22:02] * Volunteers Aren't Always Contributors; Contributors Don't [22:02] Always Volunteer. [22:06] I am sooo freaking happy and to think 30 minutes ago I summed up my day today as "Suckage seeping from my fingertips to web pages like raw sewage from a septic tank." [22:09] akgraner: Aw, surely it couldn't have been that bad. [22:11] it's what happens when you rush and are distracted :-) [22:11] and by you I mean me [22:24] congrats amber [22:38] akgraner: where is oscon? [22:38] is there a mailing list for the Millbank office? [22:39] Daviey: ^^ [22:54] howdy [22:56] man, i've got such a headache. I've not eaten all day. I just got out of the cleveland clinic, watched open heart surgery. super leet. [22:57] ah yes, but it is not exactly rocket science [22:57] AlanBell: last week I saw neurosurgery, that's flipping awesome [22:57] on the top of the brain [22:58] paultag: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I [22:58] AlanBell, Yes, and a -uk. [22:58] AlanBell: haha, this is grand [22:59] AlanBell: I need to do this with computer science [23:00] hahaha [23:00] AlanBell: that was great. What show is that? [23:01] That Mitchell & Webb Look [23:01] Not exactly computer science, now is it? [23:02] they do the I am a Mac and I am a PC adverts [23:02]