[00:18] <doctormo> popey, popey, popey: rule one of not understanding doctormo's "Understanding" blog entries: Post a comment saying it's still too confusing.
[00:19] <doctormo> Just listening to the UK podcast now :-)
[02:03] <doctormo> nigelb, pleia2: Like my groklaw tribute? http://doctormo.deviantart.com/art/Groklaw-PJ-Tribute-204801749
[02:06] <jcastro> I didn't even know that site was still around
[02:12] <doctormo> jcastro: Groklaw? sure is.
[02:12] <doctormo> Well for another month or so
[02:14] <akgraner> doctormo, that's cool
[02:15] <doctormo> akgraner: Thought it good to do a tribute.  Quite pleased with the drawing skill practice too ;-)
[02:15] <doctormo> How has your day been?
[02:15] <akgraner> bruce byfield's article about it was picked up by slashdot Monday
[02:15] <akgraner> doctormo, humbling
[02:16] <akgraner> re my day
[02:16] <doctormo> akgraner: Oh? I forget which bruce byfield article, can you link?
[02:17] <doctormo> I've had a bit of a long day with a job interview and a bunch of project work.
[02:17] <akgraner> I posted a blog post (in a hurry) and it was the first time my boss exercised the use of Bold in an email to me :-/
[02:18] <akgraner> let's just ouch...
[02:18] <akgraner> say even
[02:18]  * Pendulum hugs akgraner 
[02:19] <akgraner> doctormo, Eulogy for Groklaw  - http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/Eulogy-for-Groklaw
[02:19] <doctormo> Ah right, I did read that one... slashdotted you say? I didn't know slashdot was still around.
[02:19] <akgraner> Pendulum, she was right :-) but I was embarrassed...(to say the least)
[02:20]  * doctormo hugs akgraner too
[02:20] <akgraner> Pendulum, but I'll take the hug and say thanks!
[02:20] <akgraner> yep it's still around...slashdot that is
[02:21] <akgraner> but I learned what 'NRFPT' meant today :-)
[02:22] <Pendulum> akgraner: even if it's deserved, hugs are still appropriate!
[02:30] <akgraner> :-)
[02:30] <paultag> anyone seen nigel? I need to pester him about a pet project :)
[02:32] <akgraner> he went to bed last I talked to him
[02:32] <paultag> rad, thanks akgraner :)
[02:40] <akgraner> paultag, no problem - oh and holstein was talking about how cool you are
[02:40] <akgraner> I think he has about decided to seek Ubuntu membership
[02:41] <paultag> akgraner: haha, awesome. He's a wicked cool guy, I hope he goes for it!
[02:41] <paultag> smart, too
[02:42] <akgraner> have you heard him play?
[02:42] <paultag> akgraner: no! Have you?
[02:43] <akgraner> yep - online but Pete, JFo, and the kids have seen in play at one of the local bars here
[02:43] <paultag> damn, cool
[02:43] <paultag> akgraner: he plays the git-fiddle, aye?
[02:43] <ScottL> i think holstein has a man-crush on paultag ;)
[02:43] <paultag> ScottL: awwww :)
[02:44] <akgraner> bass
[02:44] <paultag> oh right
[02:44] <paultag> me too :)
[02:44] <ScottL> akgraner, i hope holstein does go for membership, i started pushing him after you told me too
[02:44] <akgraner> :-) cool
[02:44] <ScottL> paultag, yeah, we need to record some songs for ocelot...i'll make sure they get on the image :P
[02:44] <akgraner> ScottL, he talks about you as well
[02:44] <paultag> ScottL: dude, for sure!
[02:44] <paultag> ScottL: I can lay down some accordion, bass or a bit of keyboard :)
[02:44] <akgraner> well brags on you as well I should say
[02:46] <ScottL> akgraner, awww, that's sweet :)
[02:46] <akgraner> it was his idea to revive the wnclug...
[02:46] <paultag> akgraner: how's that going?
[02:46] <akgraner> sometimes it's more ubuntu but that's cool too
[02:47]  * paultag *coughs* LoCo *cough*
[02:47] <akgraner> honestly the LUG group is doing better than the local team
[02:47] <akgraner> LoCo I mean
[02:47] <paultag> akgraner: damn. looks like holstein needs to kick the loco's ass
[02:47] <akgraner> he has...
[02:48] <akgraner> :-)  the NC LoCo team lead needs to get off her slacker arse and do something encouraging and motivational  :-P
[02:49] <paultag> :)
[02:49] <akgraner> looks like the Raleigh area will have a release party :-) talked to one of the guys up that way this morning
[02:50] <akgraner> we'll make go/no-go decision on Friday
[02:51] <doctormo> akgraner: We've had our MA event for the year, paultag are you coming back? Would you come back if I said I had a man-crush? ;-)
[02:51] <paultag> doctormo: actually.... one moment
[02:51] <akgraner> hahaha...you all make me smile!
[02:52] <paultag> doctormo: damn! I head back from MA on the 25th. Tea man-date in leau?
[02:52] <doctormo> paultag: Yep, Harvard Sq for some much needed Tealux?
[02:52] <paultag> doctormo: did they move to harvard square?
[02:53] <paultag> that's the red line IIRC, yeah?
[02:53] <paultag> yeah, rd == harvard
[02:53] <paultag> doctormo: yeah, I can do that, np!
[02:53] <paultag> wow, sed s/rd/red/g
[02:56] <paultag> doctormo: let's chat a bit later on, I've got to run. It's settled, though, mandate between 4/21 -> 4/25
[02:56] <doctormo> paultag: They closed down the Newbury street tealux man.
[02:56] <paultag> doctormo: for good?!
[02:56] <doctormo> yes
[02:56] <paultag> doctormo: I was there when they closed it because of the lease
[02:56] <paultag> doctormo: but they said they'd move to another place on newbury
[02:57] <doctormo> No heard if there's a new place yet. I've been asking tho
[02:57] <paultag> doctormo: aye, well shucks!
[02:57] <paultag> doctormo: no thai basil (bay/sill) this time, methinks
[02:57] <doctormo> paultag: Oh why? there's a really nice pet mak alloy mak mak tuk tuk place near by.
[02:58] <paultag> doctormo: oh jeez, now everyone's wondering why i'm chortling
[02:58] <paultag> doctormo: sure, sounds good
[02:59] <doctormo> email me when interrupting my diary!
[02:59] <paultag> doctormo: will do :)
[02:59] <paultag> akgraner: much love, catch you later!
[02:59] <paultag> ScottL: you're the man now, dawg
[02:59] <paultag> later, all, one love
[03:00] <akgraner> laters
[06:56]  * nigelb hugs JFo 
[07:34] <nigelb> morning ara :)
[07:34] <ara> morning nigelb, all
[07:51] <nigelb> hola dpm
[07:51] <dpm> hey nigelb
[07:51] <dpm> good morning all
[07:53] <nigelb> rocking uadw :)
[07:54] <nigelb> I've had a few people getting very excited about the qt sessions :)
[07:54] <dpm> oh, that's really cool - you should tell them that there are lots more coming up :)
[07:55] <nigelb> yup, I did :)
[07:55] <dpm> excellent :)
[07:56] <nigelb> Maybe because we're at this very interesting point of gnome3 release, unity coming to standard desktops, I've found lots of interest this time.
[07:57] <nigelb> Or maybe this is the third time and we're really rocking uadw :P
[07:59] <dpm> probably a combination of the two ;)
[07:59]  * dpm goes and wikifies the logs
[08:03] <popey> hahah doctormo
[08:10] <dholbach> good morning
[08:10] <dpm> hey good morning dholbach!
[08:11] <dholbach> hey dpm
[08:17] <nigelb> hey doctormo
[08:17] <nigelb> hello popey!
[08:31] <dpm> UADW logs are now wikified for your viewing pleasure - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAppDeveloperWeek/Timetable - spread the word! :-)
[08:40] <duanedesign> morning all
[08:45]  * nigelb laughs in the general direction of popey ;)
[09:00] <kim0> Morning
[09:03] <nigelb> hey kim0 :)
[09:04] <kim0> nigelb: hey o/
[09:13]  * popey tickles nigelb 
[09:24]  * nigelb hugs popey
[09:32] <dpm> hey kim0, hey duanedesign and popey
[11:04] <AlanBell> what do you think of this? http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/sessionprototype.html
[11:05] <AlanBell> my thought is that it could be something generated by summit
[11:06] <AlanBell> at http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/sessions/session-slug
[11:06] <AlanBell> or similar. With embedded link to an etherpad with the nano theme so you just get the editable area in a summit page
[11:07] <AlanBell> I have that glass!
[11:09] <AlanBell> and it includes a QR code pointing at the page, my thought is that the page itself (without the embedded etherpad) would be printable and would be the sheet stuck on the door
[11:09] <jussi> AlanBell: I like!
[11:09] <AlanBell> so walk into room, scan QR on the way in, have session description and notepad in front of you by the time you sit down
[11:11] <nigelb> AlanBell: /very/ nice
[11:11] <AlanBell> view the source, I just knocked it up in gedit in 2 minutes
[11:11] <nigelb> Its probably just an iframe right?
[11:11] <AlanBell> it is
[11:12] <AlanBell> pad url?_theme=nano
[11:13] <jussi> AlanBell: that content you have got there, where does that come from?  is the pad empty, or is there stuff on it ?
[11:13] <AlanBell> I pasted in some random stuff from last UDS
[11:13] <jussi> ok, perhaps you can script it to pull in the blueprint content?
[11:13] <AlanBell> the pad could be prepopulated a little bit
[11:14] <AlanBell> maybe, or there could be a blueprint link in the top
[11:14] <AlanBell> things I would try to prepopulate would be the session title and hash tags
[11:17] <AlanBell> hopefully jcastro will get all excited about this and command a minion to implement it
[11:19] <AlanBell> my opinion is that this is what turns Etherpad from an alternative equivalent to Gobby that works a bit better, to something fundamentally superior in terms of the integration we can do with it.
[11:20] <popey> i cant see the point of the QR code
[11:20] <popey> people don't take photos of qr codes with their laptops do they?
[11:20] <AlanBell> it is slightly questionable
[11:20] <AlanBell> tablet devices might be able to take advantage of it
[11:20] <AlanBell> if they support contenteditable
[11:21]  * popey wonders which tablet devices these might be
[11:21] <AlanBell> which basically means Android as the ipad is just for buying pretty hats
[11:23] <AlanBell> http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/shiny-thing-make-it-all-better-201001282420/
[11:29] <popey> well there's two issues
[11:30] <popey> 1. the ipad has no camera
[11:30] <popey> 2. etherpad doesn't work in safari on the ipad
[11:30]  * nigelb resisits trolling popey on that.
[11:30] <popey> which makes me think that QR codes are kinda a pointless addition right now given only a very small number of people will actually be able to use it
[11:31] <popey> smart move nigelb
[11:31] <AlanBell> so drop the QR code
[11:31] <AlanBell> only did it because I could
[11:31] <popey> :)
[11:32] <popey> does pad.lv support blueprints?
[11:32] <popey> if so a pad.lv link on the door might be as useful
[11:32] <jussi> why not have it there? those that can take advantage, will those that dont neeed it, who cares?
[11:32] <popey> and pasted into the irc channel
[11:32]  * jussi wonders if we can do ascii art QR codes :P 
[11:33] <popey> jussi: merely thinking time is a pressure, and if people focus on doing stuff that 0.1% of people can use will possibly detract from actually making the rest of it work
[11:33] <nigelb> popey: not yet I think. pad.lv page doesn't say anything baout blue prints
[11:33] <popey> bummer
[11:33] <nigelb> we could request it
[11:33]  * nigelb does just that
[11:33] <popey> or just use some other shortening service
[11:34] <AlanBell> the QR code is just: https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?chs=150x150&cht=qr&chl=http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/sessionprototype.html&choe=UTF-8.png
[11:34] <nigelb> popey: that means doing that manually for every blueprint, painful ^-^
[11:34] <AlanBell> i.e. put what you want the QR to point to inside that google charts URL, get an image with the QR in it
[11:34] <popey> nigelb: no, it doesnt
[11:34] <popey> shortening services have APIs
[11:34] <nigelb> loop through all of them,true.
[11:35]  * nigelb has code somewhere for bit.ly and goo.gl
[11:35] <nigelb> and python code that too.
[11:35] <nigelb> so it should be actually trivial.
[11:36] <nigelb> oh, who wants to help theme etherpad tonight?
[12:06] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/sessionprototype.html gave it some divs and floats to use space better at the top
[13:35] <Pici> Poing, anyone else having problems with the images on http://www.ubuntu.com/community/countdown ?
[13:35] <Pici> I filed #760618, just want confirmation before I go bug someone else.
[13:36] <nigelb> Poing?
[13:36] <Pendulum> it's a ping and a pong all in one
[13:36] <Pici> ping/pong/poing
[13:36] <maco> wouldnt it be ping poing pong, like syn synack ack?
[13:37]  * maco googles to doublecheck that's right
[13:37] <nigelb> bug 760618
[13:37] <Pici> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/760618
[13:37] <vish> haha! Pici caused a riot ;p
[13:37] <maco> woo wikipedia agrees
[13:37] <nigelb> oh, new bot called Pici :p
[13:38] <vish> Pici: cant see them here on FF4
[13:38]  * vish tries chrome
[13:39] <nigelb> Pici: I can confirm a 404
[13:39] <AlanBell> http://www.ubuntu.com/countdown/banner1.png is the image URL
[13:39] <vish> Pici: yup, broken there too.. i think it is showing last cycles countdown
[13:40] <vish> there == chrome
[13:40] <Pici> AlanBell: Do you see anything at that link?
[13:40] <AlanBell> a 404 error page
[13:40] <vish> Pici: thorsten did the banner for last cycle, not for Natty
[13:41] <vish> and iirc, the other winners were different this time too
[13:42] <AlanBell> vish: those were the images for this cycle, I put one on http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/ a couple of days ago
[13:42] <Pendulum> AlanBell: it's not there anymore :-/
[13:43] <AlanBell> yup
[13:45] <vish> AlanBell: the winners this time were » , Riku Lu, Anatoliy Babchuk (takashtuka) and Dave (I Heart Ubuntu). > http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/ubuntu-natty-release-countdown-banners-chosen/
[13:45] <vish> thats the old Maverick page.. something borked
[13:46] <nigelb> and someone seems to have restored from backup
[13:46]  * vish agrees with jcastro ; OMG is news! :D
[13:47] <Pici> Okay, I've done enough damage this morning, time to get back to work ;)
[13:49]  * jussi zaps nigelb
[13:50]  * nigelb cuts down jussi with lightsaber
[14:13] <jcastro> AlanBell: preopoluation would be cool
[14:13] <jcastro> AlanBell: I would just tell people to make the URL when they file the blueprint
[14:13] <AlanBell> no need really
[14:14] <AlanBell> if you don't create the URL then the page will be there with a create a pad button in it
[14:15] <AlanBell> refresh to see what I mean
[14:16] <AlanBell> I am just pointing it at primarypad because that has a bunch of interesting plugins installed like the image URL one
[14:22] <jcastro> refresh on which page?
[14:51] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/sessionprototype.html
[14:51] <AlanBell> I pointed it at a pad that doesn't exist yet
[14:52] <jcastro> ok
[14:52] <jcastro> cool
[14:52] <jcastro> how did you do this?
[14:52] <AlanBell> so the first person who wants to presses the button and it creates the pad
[14:52] <AlanBell> view source:)
[14:52] <AlanBell> 2 minutes in gedit
[14:53] <jcastro> oh
[14:53] <jcastro> I thought you had like spidered the BPs in LP and autogenerated it
[14:53] <AlanBell> no, but it is all information that is on the session blocks in summit
[14:54] <jcastro> right
[14:54] <jcastro> this is slick
[14:54] <AlanBell> so with some django magic make a URL like http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/sessions/session-slug
[14:55] <AlanBell> and generate a similar page for each session, and have it linked from the blocks in the timetable
[14:55] <mhall119> Daviey: can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/guidebook-rebrand/+merge/57591 ? we might want to put this out before too many people install the old app
[14:58] <AlanBell> so you would go to the page of the day like this http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/2010-10-25/ and click on a session to get to the details and notes page for that session
[15:11] <jcastro> yeah
[15:11] <jcastro> or just put the URL in the blueprint
[15:11] <jcastro> that was my plan for my sessions
[15:13] <AlanBell> you mean on the whiteboard of the blueprint?
[15:39] <jcastro> AlanBell: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-unity-developer-participation
[15:39] <jcastro> for example
[15:39] <jcastro> see "Set URL for this specification"
[15:43] <AlanBell> yeah
[15:43] <AlanBell> so you were going to put etherpad URLS there
[15:45] <jcastro> right
[15:45] <jcastro> normally people put the wiki page there
[15:45] <jcastro> from back in the day when we used the wiki for specs
[15:45] <jcastro> dholbach: hah man, remember what /crap/ that used to be?
[15:46] <AlanBell> well this would not conflict with that plan at all
[16:42] <jcastro> I am for whatever is best
[17:13] <jcastro> <--- late lunch
[17:19] <cjohnston> jcastro: get me some!
[17:51] <mhall119> you need to use sudo
[17:55] <cjohnston> lol
[17:56] <nigelb> mhall119: good one
[17:56] <nigelb> today I made classbot not work because of a typo. sigh.
[18:04] <dholbach> alright my friends - I call it a day - see you all tomorrow *HUGS*
[18:08] <dpm> see you dholbach!
[18:11] <dholbach> bye dpm
[18:12] <daker> @launchpadbugs should be updated so it use pad.lv instead of bit.ly
[18:19] <AlanBell> so to implement my cunning plan it seems I need to add a pattern to the urls.py, then do something schedule/views.py
[18:27] <mhall119> AlanBell: what cunning plan is this?
[18:53] <doctormo> popey: ping
[19:02] <AlanBell> mhall119: extending summit to have a per-session page
[19:03] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/sessionprototype.html
[19:03] <AlanBell> bit like that perhaps
[19:03] <AlanBell> including undecorated etherpad in an iframe
[19:03] <AlanBell> and possibly freenode webchat to the room channel alongside
[19:19] <AlanBell> what do you think mhall119?
[19:20] <AlanBell> Daviey too
[19:21] <Daviey> AlanBell, i like.
[19:21] <Daviey> AlanBell, Attendees section won't scale
[19:31] <mhall119> AlanBell: we're planning a per-room page
[19:33] <mhall119> I can see the benefit of per-session though
[19:33] <Daviey> mhall119, a per room page with iframed etherpad?
[19:33] <mhall119> Daviey: we were going to embed the webchat
[19:33] <mhall119> per-room etherpad doesn't sound terribly useful
[19:34] <Daviey> mhall119, webchat is less exciting to me than etherpad tbh.
[19:34] <mhall119> but for the in-room projectors it would be nice
[19:34] <mhall119> which was the purpose of the per-room pages
[19:34] <Daviey> we already have a working solution, ablest hacky , for projector irc
[19:34] <mhall119> I say we do both
[19:34] <mhall119> we still have 3 weeks until UDS
[19:35] <mhall119> which means we don't even need to get started for another 2.5 weeks
[19:35] <mhall119> ;)
[19:35] <Daviey> mhall119, we'll have to meta refresh, and have hooks for displaying other content
[19:35] <AlanBell> good point about the attendees section
[19:35] <Daviey> "I pitty the foo"
[19:36] <Daviey> mhall119, hell, landing features during the week has been known :)
[19:36] <mhall119> yeah, it happened 6 months ago
[19:37] <Daviey> and 16, 18, 24
[19:37] <mhall119> 16 months ago huh?
[19:37]  * AlanBell hands Daviey a copy of the 6 times table
[19:38] <Daviey> lol
[20:12] <popey> doctormo: pong
[20:50] <doctormo> popey: Re uk podcast, you guys didn't mention that it was my blog post. Or that my attempted clarification was a failure.
[20:50] <doctormo> It sounded like my thing was some official post.
[20:50] <popey> doctormo: the whole thing is a failure
[20:50] <doctormo> popey: The podcast wasn't that bad ;-)
[20:50] <popey> IMHO
[20:50] <popey> hehe
[20:50] <popey> good!
[20:50] <popey> it never ceases to amaze me that people actually listen to it!
[20:51] <doctormo> Well when you link to my blog, I admit I do listen more keenly :-P
[20:51] <popey> heh
[20:51] <popey> feedback is always welcome! in any kind
[20:51] <popey> we can take negative critisism :)
[20:52] <doctormo> Remember to mention the authors of posts when they're saying something that isn't official canonical canon.
[20:52] <popey> wilco!
[20:52] <popey> i think the issue this week was we discussed it before we went live
[20:52] <popey> trying to figure out what we were going to say
[20:53] <popey> laura said that she didnt understand it 'even with the blog'
[20:53] <popey> 'what blog'
[20:53] <popey> 'martin owens blog'
[20:53] <popey> 'yeah, i didnt understand it either'
[20:53] <popey> and thus the conversation didnt happen 'on record'
[20:53] <popey> when we discuss stuff pre-show usually someone shouts 'SAVE IT FOR THE SHOW!'
[20:53] <doctormo> Ah yeah, that makes more sense, few words filled in the gaps.
[20:54] <popey> to shut people up so such incidents dont happen, that didnt happen this week
[20:56] <doctormo> IMO copyright assignment without payment is theft by social organization; I don't like it. But anything that incourages understanding is important. So if I can grab laura on irc to talk about the post, I can post a new one which hopefully will be more understandable.
[21:12] <popey> feel free to contact us via any one of the means outlined on the website ;)
[21:12] <popey> also #ubuntu-uk-podcast
[21:18] <mhall119> "copyright assignment without payment is theft by social  organization
[21:18] <mhall119> "
[21:19] <mhall119> really? wow
[21:27] <czajkowski> Aloha
[21:27] <JanC> doctormo: "copyright assignment" without payment is legally dubious in some jurisdictions too  ;)
[21:27] <JanC> that's why they have the alternative thing in there too
[21:29] <doctormo> mhall119: I'm fairly strong on the issue, other people aren't so much.
[21:30] <doctormo> JanC: Alternative thing?
[21:30] <JanC> the thing where you license the code to them to do whatever they want
[21:30] <JanC> let me check the exact wording  ;)
[21:30] <doctormo> Ah effective public domain, I find that actually slightly more acceptable.
[21:31] <JanC> more like some sort of CC0
[21:31] <mhall119> i don't see how voluntary copyright assignment is any more "theft" than voluntarily using a permissive license
[21:31] <JanC> although it only gives them the rights CC0 would give everybody
[21:32] <JanC> mhall119: that ^^^
[21:32] <doctormo> mhall119: Because it's not voluntary, not really. If you want your code to be relevant and used, then you pretty much have to agree to have your copyright taken from you.
[21:32] <doctormo> Of course I guess we do have a choice not to be involved in those projects.
[21:32] <doctormo> Or fork them.
[21:32] <mhall119> doctormo: okay, so how is that different from contributing to a GPL or BSD code project?
[21:33] <JanC> mhall119: "the same rule for everybody" ?
[21:33] <mhall119> not for BSD
[21:33] <doctormo> mhall119: a) you get to keep your copyright, moral rights and other properties, b) you get guarentees that the other contributors can't use your code outside of the GPL.
[21:34] <doctormo> *without permission first
[21:34] <maco> you can also submit the same or derivative code to two different places
[21:34] <mhall119> doctormo: you don't lose your copyright when you sign a contributor agreement
[21:34] <maco> once youve signed over the copyright on one, you cant send the same thing elsewhere
[21:34] <doctormo> mhall119: have you read it? (the Canonical one, not the FSF one)
[21:34] <mhall119> doctormo: I did a while ago
[21:35] <JanC> if you live in a place that allows losing your author's rights, you lose them
[21:35] <mhall119> hmmm, I'll have to go back and read it again, I don't recall it saying that
[21:35] <doctormo> mhall119: Copyright assignment is not dual copyright ownership, check the wording again. The FSF agreement is more palatable in that it allows you to keep rights.
[21:36] <doctormo> Unless it explicitly says what rights you keep, you loose them. IANAL
[21:36] <JanC> Canonical licenses your code back to you to do whatever you want (but only your code)
[21:36] <JanC> IIRC
[21:36] <doctormo> maco: That's actually why I like the public domain option, because it allows anyone to take the patch as a single work and reuse it.
[21:37] <mhall119> JanC: okay, I see that now
[21:37] <JanC> s/public domain/CC0/ please
[21:37] <mhall119> maybe I was thinking of the FSF or Sun contributor agreements
[21:38] <JanC> or similar to CC0, like the WTFPL  ;)
[21:38] <doctormo> Maybe I was thinking of the previous wording, I see it that text there now.
[21:39] <doctormo> What does IIRC mean? I've always wanted to ask.
[21:39] <mhall119> okay, so Canonical requires that you give up your copyright claims to code you contribute to their projects
[21:39] <JanC> Michael Meeks gave an interesting talk about LibO at FOSDEM which included some interesting stuff about licensing
[21:40] <mhall119> I can see the problems people might have with that
[21:40] <mhall119> but in practice, it's not required for very many projects
[21:41] <doctormo> mhall119: It wasn't required for anything critical until Ubuntu 11.04, it's getting harder to contribute.
[21:41] <mhall119> I don't think there are any projects that require a contributor agreement where you might be submitting the same code somwehere else
[21:41] <mhall119> doctormo: you talking about Unity?
[21:41] <doctormo> Unity, Indicators, bunch of different things. Jockey has been there for a while of course.
[21:42] <doctormo> mhall119: To me, it's the principle of the matter. We're not considered equal and trust worthy partners, and given no guarentees about misuse of our works.
[21:42] <mhall119> all stuff that originated from Canonical from the looks of it
[21:43] <mhall119> doctormo: you think there's any guarantee they can give that won't just draw more criticism?
[21:43] <doctormo> mhall119: That's the only stuff they could possible have copyright assignment on.
[21:44] <mhall119> technically they can have copyright assigned for anything the authors want to give it up on
[21:44] <doctormo> mhall119: If they said that it was acceptable to copyright assign to the ubuntu foundation and that the text included a 2v passage to only use foss licenses. That would draw praise I believe.
[21:45] <doctormo> mhall119: Technically I could mug you with a banana, code could go directly upstream.
[21:45] <mhall119> I don't think the ubuntu foundation exists in any meaningful sense anymore
[21:45] <doctormo> No, I know
[21:47] <AlanBell> mhall119: wasn't it always supposed to be dormant, sitting on a pile of cash in case Canonical goes away?
[21:48] <mhall119> AlanBell: I don't know, I thought it was supposed to be more of a layer between Canonical and the community
[21:49] <mhall119> or between Canonical and Ubuntu itself
[21:49] <AlanBell> nah, it has $10,000,000 squirreled away in a trust fund or something
[21:49] <mhall119> yeah, it does have that
[21:49] <mhall119> but I thought it was supposed to be more active
[21:50] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Foundation
[21:50] <doctormo> mhall119: It's a will and tesiment thing I think.
[21:51] <mhall119> ok
[21:51] <mhall119> just out of curiosity, has Canonical ever taken something open and made it closed?
[21:59] <akgraner> yo yo yo - guess who is speaking at OSCON this year?  woot woot woot!
[22:01] <AlanBell> \o/ yay, subject?
[22:02] <akgraner> * Volunteers Aren't Always Contributors; Contributors Don't
[22:02] <akgraner> Always Volunteer.
[22:06] <akgraner> I am sooo freaking happy and to think 30 minutes ago I summed up my day today as "Suckage seeping from my fingertips to web pages like raw sewage from a septic tank."
[22:09] <doctormo> akgraner: Aw, surely it couldn't have been that bad.
[22:11] <akgraner> it's what happens when you rush and are distracted :-)
[22:11] <akgraner> and by you  I mean me
[22:24] <maco> congrats amber
[22:38] <mhall119> akgraner: where is oscon?
[22:38] <AlanBell> is there a mailing list for the Millbank office?
[22:39] <AlanBell> Daviey: ^^
[22:54] <paultag> howdy
[22:56] <paultag> man, i've got such a headache. I've not eaten all day. I just got out of the cleveland clinic, watched open heart surgery. super leet.
[22:57] <AlanBell> ah yes, but it is not exactly rocket science
[22:57] <paultag> AlanBell: last week I saw neurosurgery, that's flipping awesome
[22:57] <paultag> on the top of the brain
[22:58] <AlanBell> paultag: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I
[22:58] <Daviey> AlanBell, Yes, and a -uk.
[22:58] <paultag> AlanBell: haha, this is grand
[22:59] <paultag> AlanBell: I need to do this with computer science
[23:00] <paultag> hahaha
[23:00] <paultag> AlanBell: that was great. What show is that?
[23:01] <AlanBell>  That Mitchell & Webb Look
[23:01] <paultag> Not exactly computer science, now is it?
[23:02] <AlanBell> they do the I am a  Mac and I am a PC adverts
[23:02] <paultag> ahh, aye
[23:23] <AlanBell> this django stuff seems to make a certain amount of sense at last.
[23:23] <AlanBell> should have something working tomorrow
[23:23] <paultag> huzzah :)
[23:24] <paultag> I need to do my daily pestering of nigelb
[23:24] <paultag> pester pester pester