[00:52] <damascene> Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad. We’ve recorded what happened, and we’ll fix it as soon as possible. Apologies for the inconvenience. (Error ID: OOPS-1929V946)
[00:52] <ubot4> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1929V946
[01:09] <AJenbo> damascene, the deadline was 9 minuts ago
[01:10] <AJenbo> forry for not noticing your question before :(
[01:10] <AJenbo> you can see the details of the deadline on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
[01:10] <AJenbo> Freezes normally happen at the start of the given date, UTC time. So last minute changes need to happen the day before.
[01:11] <AJenbo> You can use http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ to figure out your time compared to utc
[01:11] <damascene> I see
[01:12] <damascene> there is some time left for other packages that uses package system
[01:12] <AJenbo> yes, excatly one week
[01:17] <damascene> thank you
[07:52] <dpm> good morning all
[08:09] <artnay> shotwell is missing several strings
[08:11] <artnay> damn, I'd like to like Unity but this thing is still too buggy :(
[08:54] <dpm> artnay, which particular strings is shotwell missing? If there isn't a bug, it cannot be solved :)
[08:55] <artnay> dpm: there are many (in settings, when publishing image etc.)
[08:55] <artnay> dpm: I'll report those later unless someone has time to dig them out now
[08:56] <artnay> dpm: probably more than 10 strings untranslatable
[08:58] <artnay> later meaning when I finish my paid job
[08:58] <dpm> no worries :)
[09:04] <TLE> *G*
[09:05] <TLE> those "paid jobs" so have a bad habit of getting in the way of the important stuff
[09:07] <dpm> exactly, I'd rather be translating Ubuntu myself right now :)
[10:30] <gtriderxc> HI!
[10:31] <gtriderxc> could anyone of You point me out the most important untranslated packeges on this list:
[10:31] <gtriderxc> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+lang/pl
[10:32] <gtriderxc> I know Banshee but i'm unable to translate these 4 strings
[10:33] <gtriderxc> I know about slideshows and checkbox as well
[10:33] <gtriderxc> but is there anything more important?
[10:37] <RawChid> I think the slideshow would be clever (because that is a fierst impression)
[10:37] <RawChid> first*
[10:38] <dpm> gtriderxc, empathy perhaps?
[10:38] <gtriderxc> ok thanks
[10:38] <gtriderxc> wll be done
[10:38] <dpm> gtriderxc, and gbrainy
[10:38] <gtriderxc> i just thought
[10:38] <gtriderxc> there could be something of high importance on the next pages
[10:41] <RawChid> Today is the NonLangPack deadline. Is it still useful to translate then?
[10:41] <RawChid> I see ubiquity is such a NonLangPack
[10:45] <dpm> RawChid, yeah, it is still useful to translate. The only thing is that we cannot guarantee when developers will fetch the translations for the packages affected by NonLanguagePackDeadline, as it is a manual process
[10:46] <RawChid> So they come with an some sort of "language update" ?
[10:48] <dpm> RawChid, no they don't come like that. Developers fetch the translations from LP, put them in the package, build the package with the translations and upload it. Only then are translations shipped to users
[10:49] <RawChid> Okay
[10:49] <RawChid> I'm still learning a lot about the translation process.
[10:50] <dpm> yeah, ideally everything would be delivered in language packs and the whole process would be automatic, but unfortunately there are technical issues that represent exceptions
[10:52] <RawChid> Now I understand the idea NonLangPack better
[10:53] <RawChid> Maybe a silly question, but are you working for Canonical?
[10:55] <dpm> RawChid, there are no silly questions :) - Yes, I do work for Canonical: https://launchpad.net/~dpm
[10:55] <RawChid> Okay, I was just curious
[10:56] <RawChid> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguagePackTranslationDeadline still had the Maverick deadline ;)
[10:56] <RawChid> has*
[10:57] <dpm> yeah, I know, it's in need of an update. Not only the date, but the list of packages as well. RawChid, are you volunteering for updating the date in the wiki page ;-)
[10:58] <RawChid> lol, I can change the date, no problem.
[10:58] <dpm> that'd be awesome :)
[10:59] <RawChid> I assume the time is the same..
[11:01] <dpm> RawChid, actually, we could leave out the time, as it can be misleading
[11:01] <RawChid> Agree
[11:02] <RawChid> Well, I'll make it a link to 0.00 o'clock UTC
[11:05] <dpm> ok
[11:05] <artnay> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/760512 would be nice if someone who has been correcting/changing chromium translations could check if this bug exists in your language
[11:05] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 760512 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "LP translations overwritten by imports (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[11:06] <artnay> https://translations.launchpad.net/chromium-browser/translations/+pots/generated-resources/fi/+translate?show=new_suggestions&start=0 some corrections are now marked as suggestions after yesterday's import
[11:07] <artnay> http://ftagada.wordpress.com/2011/02/10/chromium-translations-explained-part-2b/#comment-204
[11:10] <artnay> luckily at least some of the changes are still remembered as suggestions but not all.
[11:58] <gtriderxc> Empathy done. who's next ;))
[12:47] <andrejz> AFAIK the deadline for non language pack is at 0.00 UTC, which was 11 hours 45 minutes ago, so it's possible translations won't get in 11.04
[12:53] <andrejz> Hello dpm? are you there?
[12:55] <artnay> andrejz: was this problem affecting slovenian translations as well? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/760512
[12:55] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 760512 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "LP translations overwritten by imports (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[12:57] <dpm> RawChid, we better remove the time on the NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline altogether, as it seems to cause confusion ^^
[12:57] <dpm> andrejz,  we cannot guarantee when developers will fetch the translations for the packages affected by NonLanguagePackDeadline, as it is a manual process
[12:58] <RawChid> What you want dpm
[12:58] <RawChid> I'll removeit
[12:59] <artnay> I don't think it's too late yet
[12:59] <artnay> 20:28      CIA-7 : ubiquity: evand * r4678 trunk/ (130 files in 3 dirs): Update translations from Launchpad.
[12:59] <artnay> that's from my /last on #ubuntu-installer
[12:59] <artnay> the line is couple of days old
[13:56] <TLE> dpm: hey
[13:56] <dpm> hey TLE :)
[13:57] <TLE> we are still seeing quite large differences between for some gnome packages between their status on lp and the one they have at gnome (and had at release time)
[13:57] <TLE> now we are off course wondering whether these are due to lack of syncronisation of ubuntu specific strings
[13:58] <dpm> TLE, can you give me an example that we can track down?
[13:58] <TLE> when do we know for sure that all upstream translation from gnome at gnome release will be in lp
[13:59] <TLE> yes, I can find one, but I am not really interested in tracking them down one by one, I can do that on my own, I was wondering if there was a way around it
[14:00] <TLE> e.g. empathy https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/empathy/+pots/empathy/da/+translate
[14:00] <dpm> TLE, the reason I'm asking is because without more info I cannot tell you what's going on, and I cannot give you a workaround for something I don't know :)
[14:00] <dpm> TLE, ok, looking at empathy - so which are the differences you've observed?
[14:01] <TLE> well what I was hoping for was that you would say: "At this point in time all translations from gnome at release time are in LP, so you do not have to worry any more about upstream differences" ;)
[14:03] <TLE> well, same total string count (+-2) as upstream, yet upstream was 100% traslated at release time, and in LP we have 52 untranslated
[14:03] <dpm> TLE, well, this GNOME release is 3.0, and we're not using most of the packages from there (we're still using GNOME 2.32 and will switch to 3 at Oneiric). So the few GNOME 3 packages that have had uploads should be up to date. As per the others, they should be in the same state as 6 months ago or better regarding translation sync
[14:04] <dpm> TLE, ok, so that's something I can start with. Let me look at empathy...
[14:04] <TLE> empathy is also (and was also at release time) at 100% for gnome 2-32
[14:06] <artnay> TLE: are you missing strings?
[14:06] <artnay> (to be translated)
[14:06] <dpm> TLE, ah, empathy is actually a weird one, I noticed it a few days ago. In Ubuntu we're using the gnome-2-34 branch from empathy, yet there is no such a branch up for translation at damned-lies
[14:06] <dpm> that's why
[14:07] <TLE> I should say, that I did not actually look at the missing strings yet and compared with upstream, because I was hoping for an easier answer
[14:07] <TLE> dpm: hmmm, maybe it's tracking master
[14:07] <TLE> no that is not either, only 1 string has changed in master since braching gnome 3 off
[14:07] <dpm> TLE, I don't think so - master is gnome 3, whereas gnome-2-34 is still gnome 2
[14:08] <TLE> oh yeah
[14:08] <TLE> artnay: no, I am missing translations I think I already did ;)
[14:08] <dpm> so there is an "invisible" empathy branch for translator
[14:08] <dpm> s
[14:08] <artnay> TLE:
[14:08] <artnay> ah, sorry
[14:08] <dpm> which funnily enough is only translatable in Launchpad but not upstream
[14:09] <artnay> dpm: I spoke about untranslatable strings, now I found a reason for it. from http://yorba.org/
[14:09] <artnay> Shotwell 0.9.2 is released. This release fixes bugs in publishing, translation, and the search bar. We recommend that all users upgrade.
[14:09] <TLE> dpm: *G* and where 50 out of 850 strings have been changed
[14:10] <TLE> I could try and download the po-file and do a manual merge from gnome 2-32 to see if the strings are actually different?
[14:10] <dpm> TLE, ok, have you got any other package where you've observed weirdness in upstream sync? (I'm still hoping I can give you an easy answer at some point! :)
[14:11] <dpm> TLE, yeah, you should compare it to gnome-2-34 to see if it's actually the same one
[14:11] <dpm> and if the theory holds
[14:11] <TLE> actually most of the others have a size where it could just be ubuntu specific strings
[14:12] <TLE> evolution 2, gnome-control-center 3, gnome-disk-utility: 7, orca: 6, gnome-settings 13
[14:13] <TLE> small updates, it would just be nice if I was garantied, without checking strings, that they are indeed syncronized with upstream before I start updating them
[14:15] <dpm> TLE, those are all gnome 2 packages, so they were up to date 6 months ago. As a) probably the upstream translation activity on gnome-2-32 stopped a while ago and b) there must have been Ubuntu package uploads with fixes for those in Natty, I'm sure they're up to date
[14:17] <TLE> dpm: well that is true, but the numbers don't quite match, so e.g. orca is missing 1 string in upstream gnome 2.32 and 6 in lp, gnome-disk-utility is missing 0 in gnome 2.32
[14:18] <dpm> ok, let me check...
[14:21] <dpm> gnome-orca is one of the gnome 3 packages, and it seems to have had regular uploads - was the latest one before or after the upstream 3.0 release?
[14:21] <dpm> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-orca/+publishinghistory
[14:22] <dpm> g-d-u is at 2.32.1:
[14:22] <dpm> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-disk-utility/+publishinghistory
[14:22] <dpm> so on orca you should compare master with LP
[14:22] <dpm> and on gnome-disk-utility you should compare gnome-2-32 with LP
[14:26] <TLE> for orca it was actually uploaded after gnome 3.0 release, so it must be ubuntu specific strings
[14:27] <dpm> TLE, yeah, the 6 strings are clearly Ubuntu-specific: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/gnome-orca/+pots/orca/da/+translate?start=0&batch=10&show=untranslated&field.alternative_language=&field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&old_show=all
[14:27] <TLE> and the latest gsu have been uploaded today, so I guess they should contain upstream translations from gnome 2.32
[14:28] <dpm> looking at the gnome-orca Ubuntu package, a da.po file with 1414 strings was imported correctly. Adding up the 6 Ubuntu strings it makes the 1420 total strings in LP, so we're all good there
[14:29] <TLE> yes, ahh but wait, the lists you send me is release dates, what is the correspondance between those and import dates
[14:29] <dpm> TLE, as a very loose rule of thumb, 1-2 days later, but if the imports queue is empty, they are imported immediately
[14:31] <dpm> So g-d-u upstream was translated in 2010-03-26 (date of the latest imported da.po file), with 1075 messages. Now let's have a look at LP...
[14:33] <dpm> LP has 1077 strings (2 more)
[14:33] <dpm> And the untranslated strings do not appear in the imported da.po file: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/gnome-disk-utility/+pots/gnome-disk-utility/da/+translate?start=0&batch=10&show=untranslated&field.alternative_language=&field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&old_show=all
[14:35] <dpm> strangely enough, there is no upstream gnome-2-32 translatable branch: http://l10n.gnome.org/module/gnome-disk-utility/
[14:35] <andrejz> dpm is there a way to check when the non-language pack translations have been exported the last time?
[14:35] <dpm> andrejz, either looking at the changelogs or asking the developers on IRC directly. Which one are you interested int?
[14:36] <dpm> *in
[14:36] <andrejz> we did a lot of work for kubuntu docs so i am interested in that and also xdg-user-dirs
[14:36] <TLE> dpm: yeah ok, I was going to ask where you found the 2010-03-16 date, of last translation update, same answer?
[14:36] <TLE> sorry, 2010-03-26
[14:37] <dpm> TLE, I did an 'apt-get source gnome-disk-utility' and I had a look at the po/da.po file
[14:38] <TLE> ok, thanks for the help
[14:38] <dpm> no worries :)
[14:38] <TLE> I must admit that I am still finding it a bit magical, making these checks
[14:39] <TLE> how is it, is there at this point a reliable and scheduled import from upstream, or is that still being worked on?
[14:42] <dpm> henninge, and his squad are ramping up to finish the automatic imports feature. But after that, we still need a bug to be fixed (soon) in bzr-git that will allow LP to import branches other than master
[14:42] <dpm> TLE, ^
[14:43] <TLE> awesome, then all of this will go away soon
[14:45] <dpm> yeah, that's the idea
[14:45] <dpm> then the only thing we'll have to care about is that each source package is linked to the right upstream branch
[14:45] <TLE> btw, awesome app developer week you guys put together, I missed your talk I
[14:46] <TLE> 'm afraid
[14:46] <TLE> but I followed quite a few other interesting ones
[14:47] <TLE> "pygtk is dead" and "python and gstreamer" were really good
[14:48] <askhl_> something wrong with pygtk?
[14:48] <dpm> TLE, ah, really glad you're liking it :)
[14:48] <TLE> yeah pygtk is dead, long live pygi
[14:49] <TLE> *G*
[14:49] <TLE> that was teh title of the talk
[14:49] <dpm> askhl_, nothing wrong with it, but it's being replaced with something bigger and cooler :)
[14:49] <TLE> askhl_: so essentially pygtk is a manually build binding
[14:50] <andrejz> dpm, is there a way to see all the packages you have been translating somewhere
[14:50] <TLE> whereas pygi gives you access to (among a log of other libs) through automatically generated API's
[14:50] <TLE> err: a lot of other libs
[14:50] <dpm> askhl_, check out the logs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAppDeveloperWeek/Timetable, and http://davidplanella.wordpress.com/2011/04/13/ubuntu-app-developer-week-day-2/ and http://davidplanella.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/off-to-a-great-start-ubuntu-app-developer-week-day-1/
[14:50] <dpm> but in any case TLE is already giving you a great summary :)
[14:53] <TLE> it seems like a brilliant idea and well executed, hats of for the idea-people and the implementers
[14:54] <TLE> dpm: btw, any inside information about when the second beta will be release into the wild
[14:54] <TLE> i mean when today
[14:54] <TLE> andrejz: I guess some of that information will be available in yout karma list
[14:55] <dpm> TLE, no, unfortunately not. The usual answer here is always: "when it's ready" ;)
[14:55] <TLE> Yeah I know, I
[14:55] <TLE> damn dutch keyboard *grumble*
[14:55] <askhl_> Interesting stuff about pygi
[14:56] <TLE> I keep hitting the enter key by mistake, when I want the '
[14:56] <dpm> andrejz, I've found this not to be too accurate, but you'll find some info to give you an idea here: https://translations.launchpad.net/~andrej.znidarsic/+activity
[14:57] <dpm> andrejz, as per the kubuntu-docs, I'd recommend asking at #ubuntu-doc
[14:57] <TLE> what I meant to say was, is that I'm going on weekend with poor internet connection this afternoon, so I hope I will have a chance to download it before
[14:57] <TLE> askhl_: yeah
[14:58] <andrejz> dpm, i believe it would be great if developers of non language pack packages would be encouraged to pack translations after non-langpack deadline
[14:58] <TLE> askhl_: as I understand it, ther may be a small performance penalty and import time, but the upside is that the amount of work that goes into bindings have been reduced from being propto libs*laguages to being propto libs
[14:58] <andrejz> otherwise it doesn't make much sense
[14:59] <TLE> err: at import time
[15:00] <dpm> andrejz, yeah, we try, but it's difficult to track, as there are several packages. One thing that can help is that translators talk to the devs reminding them. I mean, I tell them, but the message is stronger if the community also speaks up
[15:00] <andrejz> ok, i will go to ubuntu-docs right now and ask
[15:00] <andrejz> i also have another idea
[15:01] <kelemengabor> andrejz: I think there is a wiki page with bug numbers about "please export translations and rebuild the package" bugs, in which you could try to encourage them :)
[15:01] <andrejz> i noticed there is 5-a-day campaign for bugs , couldn't we do that also for translations
[15:01] <andrejz> @kelemengabor: can you please give a link?
[15:01] <andrejz> is it possible to track for how many days a person has tranlated or reviewed 5 strings?
[15:04] <askhl_> shouldn't it be a few more than 5 then? :)
[15:05] <andrejz> i think 5 it's enough (more is also ok)
[15:05] <andrejz> because what often happens is someone translated for some time (a month or so) , then they have real-life things to do and forget about translations for quite some time
[15:06] <TLE> *G*
[15:06] <andrejz> 5 a day might encourage people to stay in contact with translations
[15:06] <TLE> "Defend your cities in <em>Tux of Math Command</em>, an arcade game that improves arithmetic skills."
[15:06] <TLE> awesome
[15:06] <TLE> the stuff you learn about when doing translations
[15:07] <andrejz> +1 TLE: I learned about so many cool programs when translating ddtp
[15:07] <TLE> yeah
[15:08] <TLE> this is actually from the edubuntu slideshow, but I don
[15:08] <TLE> 't think you have to be a kid to try it out
[15:08] <TLE> I know I will
[15:08] <dpm> :)
[15:09] <andrejz> dpm, what do you think about 5 per day translations initiative ? is it doable?
[15:11] <dpm> andrejz, with planning and a driving force behind, everything is doable :)
[15:15] <gtriderxc> with these 5
[15:15] <gtriderxc> the problem is
[15:15] <gtriderxc> that always when I want to do only 5 things
[15:16] <gtriderxc> i end up with 55:)
[15:16] <kelemengabor> andrejz: finally, found it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline
[15:16] <andrejz> that's not a problem translations wise ;)
[15:18] <andrejz> @kelemengabor: thanks
[15:19] <andrejz> @dpm: are you sure it+s #ubuntu-docs?
[15:20] <andrejz> there is nobody there
[15:20] <andrejz> is app-install-data non lang pack package?
[15:20] <dpm> andrejz, it's #ubuntu-doc
[15:21] <kelemengabor> andrejz: no, a-i-d is regular langpack-content
[15:21] <andrejz> ok
[15:34] <primes2h> Hey dpm. :-)
[15:35] <primes2h> how r u?
[15:35] <andrejz> i added a bug report for ddtp
[15:35] <andrejz> have to go - bye
[15:36] <primes2h> Are there just 2 more string in system-config-printer due to this bug fix bug #759811
[15:36] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 759811 in system-config-printer (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "gtkbuilder files incorrectly listed in the POTFILES.in and so are not translated (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759811
[15:36] <primes2h> ?
[15:40] <dpm> hi primes2h! I'm fine, thanks :) - yeah, that surprised me too, I would have expected more, but I didn't check it out. I just manually uploaded the updated .pot file seb128 gave me
[15:50] <primes2h> dpm: we'll see, there are some that appear untranslated in the program, but they are on the po. The fix should fix that I hope.
[16:52] <dpm> henninge, all set for your appdeveloperweek session later on?
[16:53] <henninge> dpm: yup
[16:54]  * henninge is working on it to the last minute again ...
[16:54] <henninge> dpm: I will be away for the evening but back in time for the session (which is at 23h our time, right?)
[16:57]  * dpm re-checks
[16:57] <dpm> henninge, yeah
[17:00] <henninge> dpm: ok, see you then ;-)
[18:08] <serfus> X a day translation will be awesome indeed. 5 is really not enough imo
[19:44] <serfus> dpm, can you assign this bug to the Catalan team?
[19:44] <serfus> Catalan
[19:45] <serfus> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/651670
[19:45] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 651670 in ubuntu-translations "gucharmap Unicode block names: several incorrect and overly literal translations (affects: 1) (heat: 2)" [Undecided,New]
[19:52] <dpm> serfus, done
[19:54] <serfus> thanks
[20:49] <TLE> good evening
[20:49] <TLE> does anyone have any idea what these string for ubunt pay is about?
[20:49] <TLE> Poison server
[20:50] <TLE> Current poison
[21:05] <dpm> TLE, hm, no idear really, I hadn't seen it before
[21:06] <TLE> me neither, from what I could gather it might be some sort of stability testing function for the site, I just don't get what it is doing in the translation
[21:07] <TLE> think I going to file a bug report and ask
[21:11] <dpm> yeah, that's a good idea
[22:21] <artnay> dpm: ping
[22:21] <dpm> hey artnay
[22:21] <artnay> dpm: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/gnome-system-tools/+pots/gnome-system-tools/fi/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=Username+must+consist+of do you think this is correct?
[22:22] <artnay> I mean... must?
[22:23] <artnay> Isn't it too harsh to say so?
[22:23] <dpm> artnay, well, I'm not a native English speaker, but I'd rather say "can only consist of" or something along these lines
[22:23] <artnay> dpm: I think that's the exact wording in Maverick
[22:24] <artnay> that's why I wonder why they have changed to this sentence
[22:26] <artnay> sorry, seems like I was wrong: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/commits-list/2010-July/msg00092.html
[22:26] <artnay> anyways, it's a strange sentence
[22:33] <artnay> dpm: it's worth of a bug report. there isn't "must" and the window won't accept comma in user name (as the instructions say)
[22:34] <dpm> ok
[22:59] <artnay> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/761180 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/761184
[22:59] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 761180 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Instructions for user name are wrong and wording is misleading (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[23:00] <artnay> err, it's just me. need to sleep now.
[23:01] <artnay> at least the other one is valid ;)