[00:26] <NCommander> cjwatson: ping, I heard a rumor that you had ideas on improving soyuz's handling of binary packages to help decrease archive skew
[00:32] <bradm> I'm still seeing bug 727620, causing X to not start reliably on my laptop, anything I can do to help wrt debugging etc?
[04:19] <ScottK> bradm: Ask in #ubuntu-x.
[05:47] <azm> .
[05:47] <azm> the whole ubuntu ppa thing and lauchpad is blind and complicated
[05:49] <azm> why it must take so manu clicks till I find clickable .deb package I can download?
[05:50] <azm> i know i could sound silly..
[05:50] <ScottK> azm: Just to confuse you further (sorry), PPA support is in #launchpad, not here.
[05:50] <azm> ScottK, oh sorry
[05:51] <ScottK> No problem.
[06:40] <pitti> Good morning
[07:29] <tjaalton> @pilot in
[07:46] <didrocks> good morning
[07:58] <\sh> hey didrocks good morning
[07:58] <didrocks> hey \sh
[07:59] <\sh> didrocks: btw..good that I catch you...I just had a small glitch with terminator and grouping all terminal windows (super  + g) , unities launcher catches the super key first...how can an app overrule this when it has the focus?
[08:00] <didrocks> \sh: yeah, the window manager spec seems to specify that the super key should be reserved to it. So, compiz is grabbing the super key and keeping it…
[08:01] <didrocks> \sh: we tried to change that behavior in compiz. However, this breaks a lot of things, so will be for oneiric
[08:02] <\sh> didrocks: ok, so the only workaround for now is to change the super key shortcuts to something different locally ...
[08:02] <\sh> looks like that is something for the release notes ;)
[08:02] <didrocks> \sh: unfortunately yes :/
[08:27] <dholbach> good morning
[08:46] <tkamppeter> chrisccoulson, any chance to fix bug 760644? Should I perhaps change the mime type on the server?
[08:47] <chrisccoulson> tkamppeter, it's not going to be fixed for release i'm afraid. even though i know where the problem is, and it's probably going to be a small fix - this code is so fragile and lacking in test cases that it's too risky to make even the smallest change at this stage :(
[09:48] <Tm_T> jibel: Riddell: Alternative seems to run just fine aswell
[10:04] <mdz> cjwatson, pitti, do you have anything to add to the TB thread regarding unity? it's in an indeterminate state
[10:30] <cjwatson> NCommander: http://ftp-master.debian.org/wiki/projects/arch-all-tracking/
[10:30] <cjwatson> NCommander: (no reason to do it any differently)
[10:32] <dbarth> mdz: ping? hi Matt, do you still observe the memleak problem like yesterday?
[10:36] <chrisccoulson> tkamppeter, i've left a comment on bug 760644, which explains how you might be able to work around it server-side for now :)
[10:41] <mdz> dbarth, I installed smspillaz' valgrindable version and was running it under valgrind for part of the day
[10:41] <mdz> I have not been able to reproduce the leak yet though
[10:42] <dbarth> mdz: thanks for the info; let us know if it comes back
[11:11] <pitti> mdz: from my POV it works well enough to keep it as the default; TBH, the inconsistent scrollbars and the limited systray worry me more than unity itself
[11:16] <cjwatson> mdz: TBH, I've only just got round to fixing the bits of stray gconf configuration that made it impossible for me to run unity on this system
[11:17] <pitti> I had to run unity --reset at least three times during natty to get back to the full working state
[11:17] <cjwatson> mdz: so it's a bit hard to form a coherent opinion, but I've seen worse.  While it doesn't affect me personally, I think I share pitti's opinion that the systray policy is a bit ... absolutist, though
[11:19] <cjwatson> (configuration> in the past I had found that compiz was unusably slow on this machine, and elected to run metacity, but done so by a variety of fairly large hammers in gconf; those hammers were getting in the way.  I don't think it'll be a typical problem)
[11:20] <pitti> I have this running on three machines now, my wife's laptop (and she's quite happy with it), my own laptop, and the spare mini 10; but then again that's all intel, so my impression might be biased too much on the positive side
[11:21] <jibel> Tm_T, thanks for testing, I've updated the result on the tracker.
[11:22] <Tm_T> glad to be of any help
[11:32] <cjwatson> my wife is totally "as long as there's an option to make it just the way it was before, I don't care what you do with the new stuff"
[11:39] <Andy80> hi
[11:45] <Andy80> can I give my "little 2 cents" about Unity?
[11:47] <Andy80> I've tested it on a netbook. Well... the idea in general is not bad. In particular the unified menu can make you save lot of vertical space, but trying to find an application or even worse Settings is a pain :\
[11:49] <Andy80> I also have more concrete ideas about how to design it.... could it be usefull if I would make a (hand-made) draw and put it somewhere? Just to show these concepts...
[11:50] <cjwatson> Andy80: http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/ has pointers for where to contribute this kind of feedback
[11:50] <Andy80> cjwatson: going to read it, thanks :)
[11:52] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[11:53] <pitti> hey tkamppeter
[12:07] <tkamppeter> pitti, it is about bug 744751, this is probably trivial to fix. Where the version number of the driver should appear, the package name appears instead. Can you quickly fix that for Natty?
[12:08] <tkamppeter> pitti, Youji Saito from Epson is asking for that.
[12:08] <tkamppeter> mvo, hi
[12:13] <mvo> hey tkamppeter
[12:18] <pitti> tkamppeter: I've seen the bug, probably easy to fix, yes; I'll get that done next week
[12:28] <tkamppeter> mvo, about bug 712377, thanks for the quick fix on software-center, but I (and Epson) would like to have that the LSB-based driver packages get installed without warning, as it is irritating for users who want to just set up a printer or who want to install a commercial software package which is LSB-based.
[12:30] <mvo> tkamppeter: that should be fixed as well now, isn't it?
[12:31] <mvo> tkamppeter: I removed the libc check
[12:31] <tkamppeter> mvo, users would really get irritated if they get a "bad package" warning in such cases. Can you remove "missing-dependency-on-libc" from data/lintian-checks? Or at least not give any warnings if the package either depends on "lsb" or has "lsb" in its release number (considering this an LSB package)?
[12:31] <mvo> tkamppeter: that should already be removed in current natty
[12:32] <tkamppeter> mvo, I will try. Now I was only reporting from Olaf Meeuwissen's comment of 7 hours ago.
[12:32] <tkamppeter> mvo, updating ...
[12:33] <mvo> thx
[12:35]  * cdbs ponders over how users would react to the results of lintian checks on the debs they install
[12:36] <kklimonda> cdbs: they wouldn't know what to do with such results.
[12:36] <pitti> are they displayed to users?
[12:36] <cdbs> kklimonda: yeah, and that's why lintian isn't meant for end-users
[12:36] <cdbs> pitti: I dunno
[12:36]  * cdbs checks it for himself
[12:37] <pitti> they should certainly not be
[12:38] <cdbs> pitti: I wasn't able to replicate, but AFAIK I heard some users of complaining about the error on some AskUbuntu question and that user had the lintian result with him
[12:39] <cdbs> so maybe the answer is yes, but its hidden in some 'More Details' thing
[12:39] <tkamppeter> perhaps the lintian-check should be removed from the software-center altogether?
[12:40] <cjwatson> perhaps the broken packages should be fixed.
[12:40] <pitti> this is for installing third-party .debs, not ubuntu packages, isn't it?
[12:40] <cdbs> cjwatson: you can't do anything with proprietary debs such as Skype and *those* drivers
[12:40] <cdbs> pitti: yeah
[12:40] <cjwatson> cdbs: I don't see how that means a warning isn't appropriate, given that packages with automatically detectable errors may well cause real problems latere
[12:40] <pitti> but anyway, there should be a (rather small) subset of lintian errors whicht it shold just reject, and install the rest IMHO
[12:40] <cjwatson> *latere
[12:41] <cjwatson> ARGH.  you know what I mean
[12:41] <seb128> cdbs, you can push those vendors to push whatever they distribute
[12:41] <seb128> to "fix"
[12:41] <pitti> TGIF!
[12:41] <cdbs> Is today the world typo day?
[12:42] <seb128> it has been a busy week ;-)
[12:42] <cdbs> seb128: If the entire community couldn't get nVidia to release hardware specs, then how can I, as a tiny developer, get Skype to fix their debs? :)
[12:42] <tkamppeter> mvo, I have updated and tested now, the warning still appears, the user is still irritaded by the "Bad Quality" and on "More Details" one sees that it is because of the "missing-dependency-on-libc".
[12:42] <tkamppeter> mvo, or do I have to kill or restart something after the update?
[12:43] <seb128> cdbs, different topic, those who care enough to ship a deb probably want it to work fine for the users who getit
[12:43] <cdbs> hmm
[12:43] <kklimonda> pitti: do you have a list of checks that should make a package fail?
[12:43] <kklimonda> (fail to install)
[12:43] <pitti> no, I don't
[12:43] <cdbs> fsstnd-dir-in-* is a bad lintian E: tag
[12:43] <pitti> I'm not very convinced of this approach to begin with, TBH
[12:44] <cjwatson> lintian has an ftpmaster mode which is used by Debian to autoreject packages
[12:44] <pitti> it's not any worse than using upstream shell scripts for installing
[12:44] <pitti> and if they are missing a changelog or copyright file, who cares
[12:44] <pitti> the real messy bits are weird postinst scripts, and catching them with lintian is hard
[12:44] <seb128> I don't think it's meant to display errors on any lintian warnings
[12:45] <cjwatson> changelog or copyright> well don't make those tags fatal then :-)
[12:45] <seb128> but it can at least catch some stupidities
[12:45] <cjwatson> or even warned-on
[12:45] <pitti> cjwatson: they are certainly fatal for Debian ftpmaster mode?
[12:45] <cjwatson> I wasn't suggesting we use the same set
[12:45] <azm> hi, how can I get this error fixed: configure: error: glib-2.0 not found or version too old (must be >= 2.8)
[12:45] <cjwatson> but if you're going to perform checks on packages, there is no reason to reinvent all the infrastructure in lintian for performing checks on packages
[12:45] <azm> p0lease
[12:46] <cjwatson> azm: Build-Depends: libglib2.0-dev (>= 2.8)
[12:46] <kklimonda> cjwatson: sure, I'm just wondering how many lintian checks can be treated like "unrecoverable" errors.
[12:46] <cdbs> I think it must be better to warn the user, in general, about third-party debs before installation, apart from lintian checks (which can be done after this message)
[12:46] <mvo> tkamppeter: let me check, the check should be disabled, but maybe something went wrong
[12:47] <azm> cjwatson, does that mean higher then 2.8
[12:47] <azm> ?
[12:47] <cjwatson> cdbs: that's a bit pointless IMO, they already know it's third-party because they asked for it - a general nag about that won't help
[12:47] <cjwatson> azm: yes, please see the policy manual for more details
[12:47] <azm> cjwatson, but in repos there is only 2.26
[12:47] <cjwatson> azm: 2.26 is higher than 2.8
[12:47] <azm> oh
[12:48] <cjwatson> it's not a simple character-by-character comparison
[12:48] <mvo> we use a modified version (relaxed) of the ftpmaster mode, I think its useful e.g. to warn about uid != 0 in debs or other crazy stuff
[12:48] <azm> well that is confusing
[12:48] <cjwatson> azm: it models real version numbers
[12:48] <tkamppeter> mvo, I have software-center 3.1.26.3.
[12:49] <azm> cjwatson, ok, thanks for help
[12:49] <tkamppeter> mvo, and aptdaemon  0.41+bzr641-0ubuntu1
[12:50] <mvo> tkamppeter: hm, that sounds right. what was the bugnumber again?
[12:51] <tkamppeter> mvo, bug 712377
[12:52] <mvo> tkamppeter: thanks, downloading now
[12:53] <mvo> tkamppeter: thanks, I can reproduce it, working on it now
[12:54] <tkamppeter> mvo, I have now installed s-c 3.1.26.4 from Launchpad and this does not help, too.
[13:03] <mvo> tkamppeter: uploaded a fix now, thanks !
[13:19] <exarkun> pitti: I would like to see https://bugs.launchpad.net/apport/+bug/755025 fixed sooner rather than later.  How can I help?
[13:22] <tkamppeter> mvo, fix is in s-c 3.1.26.5? Did not appear yet on Launchpad.
[13:22] <mvo> tkamppeter: aptdaemon is uploaded but in the queue
[13:24] <tkamppeter> mvo, I have found this one on Launchpad now, downloading ...
[13:25] <tkamppeter> mvo, which version number?
[13:27] <mvo> tkamppeter: 0.41+bzr645-0ubuntu1
[13:27] <tkamppeter> mvo, this did not arrive in LP yet ...
[13:30] <GunnarHj> seb128, kirkland, pitti: FYI: After some talk with Dustin and Martin about bug 678421 I summarized my gained insight in a couple of bug comments. Thought that some of you may want to give the issue a second thought when things have slowed down a bit after the release.
[13:30] <seb128> GunnarHj, hi, thanks for your work on that
[13:30] <seb128> we will
[13:33] <GunnarHj> seb128: Hello, great, looking forward to see where it lands.
[13:34] <tkamppeter> mvo, are sure that you have uploaded the new aptdaemon? It still did not make it into LP. Can you perhaps attach a patch to the bug report?
[13:35] <mvo> tkamppeter: its currently in the frozen queue, all uploads need manual approval
[13:35] <seb128> tkamppeter, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=
[13:35] <seb128> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/69487314/aptdaemon_0.41%2Bbzr645-0ubuntu1_source.changes
[13:40] <tkamppeter> mvo, thanks, found the change in the BZR
[13:41] <mvo> tkamppeter: you can run bzr-buildpackage from the ubuntu-natty branch
[13:41] <mvo> tkamppeter: that will give you a updated deb in ../build-deb
[13:43] <tkamppeter> mvo, I have maually applied your fix in /usr/share/aptdaemon/lintian-nonfatal.tags now and it works. Thank you very much.
[13:47] <tkamppeter> Who is the developer of computer-janitor, c-j considers all the third-party printer driver packages as to be deleted.
[14:01] <tkamppeter> barry, hi
[14:01] <barry> tkamppeter: hi
[14:03] <tkamppeter> barrym are you the maintainer of computer-janitor? It has a severe problem.
[14:03] <tkamppeter> barry ^^
[14:03] <barry> tkamppeter: one of them.  what's the problem?  have you submitted a bug report?
[14:03] <tkamppeter> barry, bug 761728
[14:05] <tkamppeter> barry, it uninstalls manufacturer-supplied hardware drivers and other software manually installed by the user, and to assure that it buries these packages in an unsorted list. Can you fix this for Natty.
[14:06] <tkamppeter> barry, bug 704385 and bug 458872 are other examples of the same problem.
[14:06] <tkamppeter> barry, this is a severe problem and Natty should not get released with it.
[14:07] <barry> tkamppeter: i'll try to reproduce in a vm, but this will very likely not be a computer janitor issue per se, but an update manager or dpkg issue.  c-j is just a front-end on things.
[14:07] <barry> tkamppeter: one thing you can try:
[14:07] <barry> does 'sudo apt-get autoremove' also try to delete those packages?
[14:08] <tjaalton> @pilot out
[14:08] <tkamppeter> barry, no, 'sudo apt-get autoremove' wants to remove only 12 packages, c-j, around 100.
[14:09] <barry> tkamppeter: interesting.  okay, thanks for pinging me about it.  i will look into it
[14:09] <tkamppeter> barry, try the instructions to reproduce in my bug report.
[14:09] <barry> tkamppeter: bug 458872 may be the core issue
[14:09] <tkamppeter> barry, not that people are complaining that they are loosing paid software by that.
[14:10] <barry> yep
[14:11] <tkamppeter> barry, so I would consider it release-critical.
[14:23] <abhinav-> dholbach: Hi, is it so that a merge proposal wont be noticed by the sponsors unless the bug has been triaged ?
[14:28] <dholbach> abhinav-, every merge proposal for lp:ubuntu/... will be noticed
[14:29] <abhinav-> dholbach: oh , I guess then perhaps it is because of the feature freeze
[14:29] <dholbach> abhinav-, which one is it?
[14:30] <abhinav-> dholbach: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomboy/+bug/757635
[14:30] <abhinav-> dholbach: ^
[14:31] <dholbach> seb128, ^ do you have an idea who would be qualified to make a decision about that one?
[14:31] <seb128> dholbach, what sort of decision? is that upstream as well?
[14:32] <dholbach> seb128, forwarded, yes
[14:32] <dholbach> abhinav-, we had patch pilots in the last days who could have noticed this one, but I guess everybody was fixing their own bugs for beta2
[14:32] <dholbach> seb128, if/how it can be included
[14:32] <seb128> can you join on #ubuntu-desktop
[14:32] <seb128> ?
[14:32] <seb128> I will ask rodrigo to check on it
[14:33] <abhinav-> dholbach: yes, I noticed, its been a busy week :)
[14:33] <abhinav-> seb128: yes sure
[14:33] <dholbach> thanks seb128, abhinav-
[14:40] <hallyn> skaet: hi, I'm wondering whether you might want to consider forcing bug 760464 into natty release.  it's just a nag - a once-per-boot printk.  But if we're goign to be getting a lot of automated apport bug reports from syslog-ng users, it seems worth it
[14:42] <skaet> hallyn,  thanks for flagging,  yeah it could become annoying.
[14:42] <ScottK> hallyn: A lot of it depends on how invasive the change is (I didn't look at the bug), so if you think it should get in, I'd get it uploaded and someone from the release team will review it.
[14:42] <hallyn> ScottK: change is very minimal
[14:42]  * skaet agrees with ScottK
[14:42] <ScottK> Then I'd get it uploaded.
[14:43] <skaet> hallyn, if its a minimal change,  yes please submit a fix.
[14:43] <hallyn> by 'get it uploaded' you mean just ask someone to dput the package to the archive?
[14:45]  * skaet is waiting for ScottK to answer since hallyn's question was addressed to his remark  ;)
[14:45] <smoser> @pilot in
[14:46] <smoser> zul, i dont think you're supposed to still be pilot. might want to pilot out if that is the case
[14:46] <zul> uh...
[14:46] <zul> @pilot out
[14:46] <zul> thanks
[14:46] <cjwatson> apw: text-free boot seems to have stopped working for me - I have 'set gfxpayload=keep' and vt.handoff=7, but I'm getting a black screen (without text) between GRUB and Plymouth.  Is this just me, or does it need investigation?
[14:46]  * dholbach hugs zul and smoser
[14:52] <seb128> slangasek, is there any reason bug #758804 should not go in natty?
[14:53] <seb128> slangasek, the diff seems pretty safe if someone tested the hardware works once added to the list
[14:56] <hallyn> SpamapS: do you have your coredev privs yet?
[14:58] <seb128> james_w, sorry to ask again but was is the issue that leads to spam the sponsoring queue with those merge requests on the autoimports vcs?
[14:58] <seb128> james_w, or rather what do people do wrong?
[14:58] <cjwatson> bdmurray: did you get anywhere with reproducing bug 709363?
[15:00] <cjwatson> Daviey: I still have no idea how to reproduce bug 728088 - perhaps the server team could fix this one, if they can reproduce it during ISO testing?
[15:00] <cjwatson> (I doubt it's in debian-installer, since the logs suggest networking being torn down during boot)
[15:01] <Daviey> cjwatson, Yeah... Something which is blurring me, is a syslog of an install where a certain network interface lost networking mid install.. So i'm not certain it's not something during d-i, but i agree it's likely not.
[15:03] <cjwatson> Daviey: certainly not impossible, but that's not what's being reported in that bug
[15:03] <cjwatson> (can't be d-i, d-i doesn't start apparmor etc.)
[15:03] <cjwatson> Daviey: unless you're referring to the thing I mentioned in comment 5 - but I think a link there is probably tenuous
[15:04] <cjwatson> Daviey: can anyone on your team consistently reproduce this?
[15:05] <Daviey> cjwatson, Oh yes - the reason i'm comparing as i wondered if it was the same bug
[15:05] <Daviey> cjwatson, I did reproduce it a while ago, but not on b2.  I will do this.
[15:06]  * cjwatson nods, thanks
[15:11] <hallyn> Daviey: would you mind taking a look at, and consider sponsoring, http://people.canonical.com/~serge/syslog-ng_3.1.3-3ubuntu1-package.tgz
[15:12] <smoser> mvo, you have a minute to look at bug 761689
[15:12] <smoser> i can set you up a system to look at prior to upgrade if you'd like
[15:14] <Daviey> hallyn, on it.
[15:14] <hallyn> Daviey: thanks
[15:17] <tgardner> SpamapS, can you stroke the natty unapproved upload queue and enable linux-ti-omap4 for building?
[15:17] <mvo> smoser: sure
[15:18] <mvo> smoser: do you have a /var/log/apt/term.log from this?
[15:20] <smoser> mvo, you should be able to get to ubuntu@ec2-174-129-62-113.compute-1.amazonaws.com
[15:20] <smoser> using launchpad keys
[15:20] <Daviey> hallyn, http://pb.daviey.com/iT7u/raw/ the patch is clean, but i'd like to know what the impact is - and how many people have reproduced it.  This will be a new delta.
[15:21] <hallyn> Daviey: so far I know of two bug reports
[15:22] <hallyn> Daviey: if they install the package on a maverick system, it'll fail bc that capability won't exist
[15:23] <hallyn> now, i suppose we could alternatively patch our kernel to remove the capability warning.  but then we'll just end up getting bit later on by any other syslog alternatives which haven't been converted
[15:24] <Daviey> hallyn, what, what - did you mean s/maverick/natty ?
[15:24] <hallyn> no i meant maverick
[15:24] <hallyn> on natty no problems
[15:25] <kirkland> bryceh_: can you do your dictionary magic to tell ubuntu that oneiric is really a real word?  :-)
[15:25] <Daviey> hallyn, Why would they be installing a natty package on maverick, more so - why do we care?
[15:26] <hallyn> Daviey: i'm just letting you know :)
[15:26] <Daviey> hallyn, Hmm.. I think i'm getting confused what the bug is, and what the impact is.
[15:26] <hallyn> Daviey: the capability which i'm adding is a new one which was carved out of cap_sys_admin, if that helps
[15:27] <bdmurray> cjwatson: Oh, no I actually haven't tried.
[15:27] <yofel> cjwatson: btw, thanks for the grub color fix :)
[15:27] <mvo> smoser: ok, this will need sudo to look at apt.log (tight permissions)
[15:27] <hallyn> Daviey: the syslog priv was split out of cap_sys_admin.  THe kernel warns once when someone tries to use syslog without having cap_syslog, so as to warn syslog userspace software authors to update
[15:28] <hallyn> Daviey: so the impact is just that we're going to get a lot of apport bug reports from the printk
[15:28] <smoser> mvo, its not been upgraded yet
[15:28] <smoser> so you can sudo passwordless
[15:28] <mvo> awsome
[15:28] <cjwatson> yofel: no problem, let me know if derivatives need help using it
[15:28] <smoser> so put a back door in if you'd like
[15:29] <Daviey> hallyn, Ahh! i understand. Can you forward the patch upstream, and i'll flip the patch header?
[15:29] <hallyn> Daviey: yeah - they'll need to do something more baroque upstream,
[15:29] <hallyn> Daviey: since they will have to support older systems
[15:30] <hallyn> (joining the m-l now)
[15:31] <smoser> mvo, not going to work. "Installing verbatim /etc/sudoers"
[15:31] <smoser> ubuntu user does not have a password
[15:32] <mvo> smoser: thanks, yeah, that message is the problem
[15:32] <smoser> you want a fresh instance ?
[15:32] <smoser> it'll take 2 minutes
[15:32] <mvo> smoser: please
[15:33] <ohsix> cjwatson: can you reproduce this with the given steps? it's still going on in natty https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evince/+bug/661732
[15:33] <mvo> smoser: I think I know whats going on fix should be simple, let me double check just to be sure (and sorry for the trouble this caused)
[15:34] <smoser> mvo, no problem. i actually dont know why we didn't see it before.
[15:34] <cjwatson> ohsix: um, are you sure that's the right bug number?
[15:34] <smoser> i've certainly launched instances and dist-upgraded... or maybe i have only done so with forcing dpkg to use old confs
[15:34] <smoser> (dont' know if your changes would respect that)
[15:35] <ohsix> cjwatson: yea that's the one i reported; it was marked dup to something else, and if you follow it to the upstream bug report you'll see its a mess, that one has the steps i can reproduce it with 100%, and the crash location
[15:35] <smoser> mvo, ubuntu@ec2-204-236-203-39.compute-1.amazonaws.com
[15:35] <cjwatson> ohsix: so, um, why me?  I have nothing to do with evinc
[15:35] <cjwatson> e
[15:36] <james_w> seb128, on a call, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/UnderTheHood/Importer#Collisions gives some background
[15:36] <seb128> james_w, thanks
[15:36] <ohsix> cjwatson: no reason in particular, i asked about it earlier and nobody spoke up
[15:36] <cjwatson> ohsix: sorry then, I have too many bugs already without seeking out more
[15:37] <seb128> james_w, I somewhat doubt those are collisions though
[15:37] <ohsix> :[ just need independent confirmation
[15:37] <james_w> seb128, sure, they are likely bugs
[15:37] <seb128> james_w, it happened on random uploads which are not things maintained in the vcs, i.e it's likely nobody pushed anything, some seem just normal dput uploads
[15:40] <hallyn> Daviey: heading out for some breakfast with the kids.  let me know if you have any other questions.
[15:40] <mvo> smoser: thanks, uploading a fix in a sec
[15:42] <smoser> mvo, i'll move to using sudoers.d in oneiric.
[15:43] <NCommander> cjwatson: thanks
[15:45] <mvo> smoser: no worries, I was a bit too careful in my initial fix for this
[15:46] <Daviey> hallyn_afk, ok, great o/
[15:48] <pitti> ev: thanks for the jockey -k patch, I'll integrate it (I'll change some details, but will keep the CLI interface)
[15:48] <ev> wonderful, thanks!
[15:57] <jdstrand> Daviey: not sure how you'd want to handle this accounting issue in bug #580319, but dhcp3 is no longer in natty (we have isc-dhcp instead). I have no idea if isc-dhcp is affected, I just saw this in passing
[16:07] <Daviey> jdstrand, That is on my hit list.
[16:07] <Daviey> jdstrand, will follow up after the release meeting
[16:07] <jdstrand> Daviey: k. just fyi on my end
[16:08] <NCommander> cjwatson: thanks, I'll make sure this makes it into a spec and the Soyuz guys see it. If we can reduce archive skew, it will make our lives considerably less painful
[16:11] <Daviey> jdstrand, pah, just read up - nobody has confirmed if we are seeing it with isc-dhcp after me asking.
[16:32] <brendand> is it meant to be the case that cpuinfo has no core id and physical id fields if there is only 1 cpu?
[16:33] <brendand> despite that /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/topology/core_id and physical_package_id exist
[16:44] <SpamapS> hallyn_afk: yes I do, did you need something sponsored?
[16:45] <SpamapS> tgardner: I am not an archive admin yet, so no. :-P
[17:25] <slangasek> seb128: if you want to take it for natty, I don't object, I just didn't think it warranted a freeze exception
[17:28] <seb128> slangasek, well "freeze exception", things are reviewed from the queue and the diff seems trivial enough to not be a lot of work
[17:28] <Abhinav_> Is this the right place to discuss about natty beta2?
[17:28] <seb128> slangasek, the merge request is against the wrong vcs though, lp:~ubuntu-desktop/bluez/ubuntu is the correct one
[17:29] <ScottK> Abhinav_: If you need help with it, #ubuntu+1 is the right channel.
[17:29] <slangasek> seb128: heh - right, sorry.
[17:29] <Abhinav_> ScottK, thanx :)
[17:29] <seb128> slangasek, do you want me to upload it or do you do it?
[17:29] <ScottK> seb128: If you upload it, he can review it.
[17:30] <slangasek> seb128: you are welcome to upload it - I wasn't going to upload it myself because I think it's too low-priority for me to take up the release team's time with reviewing, but yeah, if you upload it I can review it :)
[17:30] <seb128> ok, doing that
[17:30] <seb128> well it's like a 30 seconds review and it enable extra hardware to work
[17:30] <seb128> so seems worth getting in
[17:31] <slangasek> hardware that can only be used with a Linaro kernel, not with any of the official Ubuntu images :)
[17:31] <ScottK> pitti: We're starting the first python transition in Debian today and I am told python-distutils-extras needs an upload.  Do you mind an NMU or would you prefer to handle it?
[17:31] <seb128> slangasek, oh ok, I didn't get that part
[17:31] <seb128> slangasek, so yeah can wait next cycle...
[17:31] <smoser> cjwatson, does this look fine for removing '/boot/grub' from packaged grub-legacy-ec2? http://paste.ubuntu.com/594539/ . just make the dir on post-inst before calling update-grub-legacy-ec2 (which needs it)
[17:33] <cjwatson> smoser: just use 'mkdir -p /boot/grub' - no need for a test
[17:33] <cjwatson> (and that way it also works if e.g. /boot is mysteriously missing or something)
[17:33] <cjwatson> but yeah, otherwise fine
[17:34] <smoser> true. i just check because stat faster than fork.
[17:34] <smoser> but i dont really care.
[17:35] <jhunt> could someone queue-jump my 'upstart-testing' ppa build possibly?
[17:35] <jhunt> SpamapS: I believe I've nailed the chroot bug.
[17:35] <cjwatson> jhunt: done
[17:35] <jhunt> cjwatson: thx!
[17:42] <hallyn_afk> SpamapS:  (no thanks, Daviey's on it)
[17:48] <hallyn> Daviey: could you give me your opinion on bug 726099 ?
[17:49] <hallyn> Daviey: it's going to hit some natty users, but arguably the big boxes won't be upgrading until 12.04, and libvirt will restart anyway, so it may be ok for fix after release
[17:52] <Daviey> hallyn, Has 9028-change-locking-for-udev.patch  been pushed to upstream?
[17:52] <SpamapS> jhunt: awesome.. should I install from the ppa then?
[17:53] <jhunt> SpamapS: go for it!
[17:53] <SpamapS> I do need to try and build php w/ sbuild.. now would be an excellent time to have chroot support so it doesn't die when it tries to start mysql server. :)
[17:53] <hallyn> is that what it's called?
[17:53] <Daviey> hallyn, your new patch
[17:54] <hallyn> Daviey: huh.  yeah, i sent it upstream
[17:54] <Daviey> hallyn, Has it been commented / applied?
[17:55] <hallyn> Daviey: yup, http://libvirt.org/git/?p=libvirt.git;a=commit;h=2879582847303297965e0c441edbe7daca07872c
[17:57] <Daviey> hallyn, Doesn't seem we have had any feedback from your test packages, *ideally* someone could confirm it resolves the issue.
[17:57] <hallyn> Daviey: right, i'm wondering whether we can interpret the lack of feedback as a lack of re-occurance of the problem :)
[17:57] <hallyn> let's try asking again
[17:59] <hallyn> pinged
[17:59] <smoser> cjwatson, should bug 655616 be in incomplete ? I'm just trying to avoid other patch-pilots spending time reading it if you've got a handle on it.
[17:59] <Daviey> hallyn, that sounds like a good idea...  it doesn't seem to be Critical importance, but enough to warrant an SRU post release.  Patch being in upstream adds confidence.
[18:00] <hallyn> Daviey: ok - i'm having trouble figuring out how bad it is to have bugs in the release and fixed right after release, vs. having the fix on the cd
[18:00] <hallyn> Daviey: i'd assume everyone just updates while installing anyway right?
[18:00] <hallyn> (since it's an option in the installer)
[18:01] <Daviey> hallyn, If it has an ack that it resolves the issue, I would suggest uploading it.. but cut off is early next week... after that, it's possibly post release SRU.
[18:01] <SpamapS> jhunt: alright, rebooting now. :)
[18:02] <Daviey> hallyn, The release team might disagree with me... but if it affects the majority of use cases, and causes woe - then it's suitable to still be upload.  If it is an issue during installation, first boot, it certainly needs uploading.
[18:04] <Daviey> hallyn, 4/21 (0900 UTC) is when it becomes a real tough ride to get things in.  In this case, I would say upload it - as soon as you get an ack it's good.  Ideally early part of next week.
[18:04] <hallyn> Daviey: but it appears to be a rare occurance.  People who report it say it happens every few weeks (every 10 boots or so)
[18:04] <hallyn> i just worry that 'every 10 boots' out of N natty users will be painful :)
[18:05] <hallyn> Daviey: ok, thanks, let's see if anyone responds
[18:06] <Daviey> hallyn, lets revisit it Tuesday and see if things have developed.
[18:08] <SpamapS> jhunt: test case passed! :-D
[18:11] <hallyn> Daviey: sounds good
[18:14] <cjwatson> smoser: um, I guess so.  I'm not working on it at the moment, but my review comments stand
[18:19] <slangasek> cjwatson: xkeyboard-config name changes make baby Jesus jpf
[18:21] <smoser> do branches like this one: https://code.launchpad.net/~barry/ubuntu/natty/pyopenssl/bug-758037/+merge/57494
[18:21] <smoser> get automatically merged ?
[18:22] <smoser> err... get automatically *marked* as merged. given that the fix was uploade dto the archive.
[18:24] <barry> smoser: it should :/
[18:25] <barry> often though the branch itself will not get marked as merged though.  i usually have to go through and clean up my branches after the fact
[18:35] <jcastro> till_: have you sorted your UDS travel yet? I'm just cross checking the list
[18:40] <Andy80> jcastro: hi :) do you think I will find someone interested helping me to implement this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/authpuppy/+spec/sms-authorization ? Or UDS is related only to Ubuntu development?
[18:40] <jcastro> UDS is only for ubuntu development
[18:41] <jcastro> (cool idea though)
[18:41] <Andy80> ok, thanks :)
[18:42] <Andy80> yeah... it would be nice to have this feature. With my linux user group, we are creating a free wifi network around the city (using Ubuntu of course ;) ). But... it's off-topic here, sorry :)
[18:42] <till_> jcastro: come again?
[18:43] <jcastro> till_: you're coming to uds right?
[18:43] <till_> what is UDS?
[18:43] <till_> haha
[18:43] <till_> and why would i come? :)
[18:44] <ScottK> jcastro: I suspect you wanted tkamppeter.
[18:44] <till_> probably :)
[18:44] <jcastro> oh sorry, wrong till, my bad.
[18:46] <sladen> pitti: per your analysis that 'humanity-icon-theme' is a bug-fix, I've sponsored it
[18:57] <tkamppeter> jcastro, id you want to talk with me?
[18:57] <jcastro> tkamppeter: yeah, are you all set wrt. UDS?
[18:58] <tkamppeter> jcastro, I dfid not book flights yet, as I never got an offer from this agency.
[19:16] <tkamppeter> jcastro, still around?
[19:16] <jcastro> yeah
[19:16] <nigelb> jdstrand: hi, figured your rss troubles :-)
[19:20] <nigelb> jdstrand: ..and fixed i :)
[19:20] <nigelb> *it
[19:20] <jdstrand> nigelb: oh? what is happening?
[19:20] <jdstrand> well, I know what is happening
[19:21] <jdstrand> I don't know how to fix it
[19:21] <nigelb> jdstrand: the atom feeds were updating timestamp when edited, the rss feeds were fine
[19:21] <jdstrand> ah!
[19:21] <nigelb> :)
[19:21] <jdstrand> nigelb: so did you change my planetubuntu feed to use rss?
[19:21] <nigelb> yes
[19:21] <nigelb> just pushed
[19:21]  * jdstrand hugs nigelb 
[19:21] <jdstrand> nigelb: thank you!
[19:21]  * nigelb hugs  jdstrand :)
[19:22] <nigelb> np :)
[19:22] <jdstrand> needless to say, I was fairly embarassed when I learned what was happening
[19:23] <nigelb> heh, this reminds me I need to update the wiki page for planet about it
[19:41] <jhunt> SpamapS: a delayed thanks :)
[19:43] <tkamppeter> jcastro, some weeks ago as I got the message that I can come, the agency (I think BTS) got also notified with me CCed and they told they will look for flights for me and I never got an answer. Therefore I did not book. Looks like that I should better book soon.
[19:44] <jcastro> tkamppeter: yes please, it only gets more expensive the longer we wait. :)
[19:56] <ScottK> slangasek: Do you know of anyone that might look into Bug #762082?  It just caused an FTBFS on armel of amanda.
[19:57] <slangasek> ScottK: eep
[19:57] <slangasek> ScottK: looking
[19:57] <ScottK> Thanks.
[19:57] <slangasek> with my armel and also my "touched dpkg last" hats
[19:57] <ScottK> Excellent.
[19:58] <ScottK> The amanda build log is remarkably unhelpful.  What's in the bug is from a local install in a natty chroot on a karmic armel box.
[19:58] <slangasek> dpkg 1.16.0~ubuntu7?
[19:59] <ScottK> I updated the chroot immediately before I tried it.
[19:59] <ScottK> Let me check.
[20:00] <ScottK> Yes.
[20:00] <ScottK> 1.16.0~ubuntu7
[20:03] <barry> mvo: any chance you're still around?
[20:03] <mvo> barry: ye
[20:04] <barry> mvo: hi.  guess what's reared it's ugly head today?  bug 458872
[20:04] <barry> mvo: when you get a chance, which doesn't have to be today, i'd love to chat with you about this
[20:05]  * mvo reads
[20:08] <mvo> barry: sure, we can talk about this. let me reply in the bug
[20:09] <barry> mvo: sounds good, thanks
[20:12] <tkamppeter> jcastro, OK.
[20:13] <mvo> barry: I agreed with what you said in the bugreport, its not a regression in any way, the long term solution should be to record if it was a install via dpkg or not
[20:13] <barry> mvo: do you think Regved's approach is sound (even if the implementation needs work)?
[20:16] <mvo> barry: TBH I don't understand it, or rather I think the result is/will be that all installed packages are considered "dpkg" installs (so its equivalent of just turning the plugin off)
[20:17] <barry> mvo: ah, gotcha.  i know it's late on a friday for you, but perhaps on monday we can talk about a long term strategy, and i can work on that for oneiric.  what do you think?
[20:18] <slangasek> ScottK: ah, the segfault comes from the use of --verbose
[20:19] <slangasek> ScottK: so you can work around this by dropping the --verbose - I don't know why a maintainer script would use that anyway
[20:19] <ScottK> OK.  Sounds like a bug worth pursuing though.
[20:19] <slangasek> yep
[20:21] <ScottK> OK.  I'll do the workaround and leave the pursuing to you.
[20:22] <mvo> barry: sounds good to me
[20:22] <mvo> barry: yeah, monday is good, I want to finished some stuff today but its indeed getting late here
[20:22] <barry> mvo: awesome, thanks.  i'll update the bug and we'll chat on monday.  have a great weekend!
[20:27] <ScottK> slangasek: Uploaded.  I'd appreciate it if you'd give it the "Meh, Universe." push when it gets in the queue.
[20:27] <slangasek> ack
[20:28] <ScottK> Thanks.
[20:28] <mvo> barry: thanks, you too
[20:39] <enrylinux> sera
[20:39] <enrylinux> speak italian
[20:39] <ScottK> mterry: Is  gedit-developer-plugins a bugfix only update?
[20:39] <mih1406> Hi, I am a c++ dev and want to participate on any project that interests me but I do not know how?
[20:40] <enrylinux> kubuntu 11.04 da live non parte
[20:41] <enrylinux> beta 2
[20:41] <mterry> ScottK, I don't think so, I believe it may have added a feature or two.  You're saying that universe is under a bugfix freeze now?  /me reminds himself of the calendar
[20:41] <ScottK> mterry: Yes.  Feature freeze happens for the whole archive at the same time.
[20:42] <ScottK> You'd just have got away with it if Main wasn't frozen because it wouldn't have needed a manual accept.
[20:42] <ScottK> mterry: I'm reject it and you can file the FFe.
[20:42] <slangasek> enrylinux: la lingua di questo canale è l'inglese e non è canale di supporto; a tentare en #ubuntu-it?
[20:43] <mterry> ScottK, I see that in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze now...  Has it always been that way, or have I just always not read the fine print?  :)
[20:43] <slangasek> enrylinux: migliore, en #ubuntu-it+1 (http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/GruppoIrc/Canali)
[20:43] <mterry> I recall separate Feature freezes
[20:43] <ScottK> It's always been that way.
[20:43] <ScottK> For at least a couple of years anyway.
[20:43] <ScottK> I think prior to Hardy it wasn't.
[20:44] <ScottK> There used to be a separate, new package freeze.
[20:44] <mterry> ScottK, well, thanks for the catch.  Sorry to try to slip one by ya  :)
[20:44] <ScottK> No problem.
[20:45] <mih1406> Hi, I am a c++ dev and want to participate on any project that interests me but I do not know how?
[20:45] <slangasek> mih1406: what project interests you?
[20:46] <mih1406> slacker_nl, where can I find projects that needs a dev to help them
[20:46] <mih1406> any c++/gtkmm projects is fine
[20:48] <slangasek> I'm not personally aware of any gtkmm projects worked on by the Ubuntu team
[20:49] <slangasek> the Kubuntu team does a lot with C++ of course, but not gtkmm
[20:49] <mih1406> is gtkmm dying? as i read before?
[21:39] <achiang> hello, is apport expected to work for X server crashes?
[21:52] <tjaalton> achiang: yes
[21:53] <achiang> tjaalton: ah, cool, so you're in X, it crashes, you go back to gdm, you log back in, and then you see the apport screen?
[21:54] <tjaalton> achiang: something like that
[21:54] <achiang> tjaalton: thank you. (this is ARM, but i expect it should still all work)
[21:55] <tjaalton> yes, i don't think the platform has any meaning
[21:56] <achiang> thanks!
[21:56] <tjaalton> you're seeing crashes and apport doesn't catch them?
[21:57] <achiang> no, we haven't actually tried yet, but i just wanted to know the expected behavior of apport
[22:27] <dobey> who do i need to subscribe to merge proposals to get some uploads into 11.04 release?
[22:28] <dobey> ubuntu-release?
[22:29] <dobey> smoser: or should i just bug you? :)
[22:30] <ScottK> dobey: Bug fix or new features?
[22:30] <dobey> ScottK: bug fixes only
[22:30] <ScottK> ubuntu-sponsors
[22:30] <dobey> ScottK: and tarball releases with version bump.
[22:30] <ScottK> Still ubuntu-sponsors
[22:31] <dobey> ok
[22:36] <dobey> done. i hope all my uploads get in
[22:38] <ScottK> slangasek: If you don't delegate stuff like that how are you ever going to manage to not be TIL dpkg.
[22:38] <bdmurray> slangasek: what's that enter passphrase bug you commented on today?
[22:41] <slangasek> ScottK: well hopefully it'll become a sync in oneiric :)
[22:41] <slangasek> bdmurray: bug #566818
[22:42] <slangasek> ScottK: anyway, I'm happy to delegate fixing the compiler bug ;P
[22:43] <bdmurray> slangasek: bug 728109 looks like a dupe to me
[22:44] <slangasek> agreed and dupified, thanks
[22:44] <slangasek> (dupinated?)
[22:45] <bdmurray> slangasek: you stole my karma!
[22:46] <slangasek> heh
[22:46] <slangasek> mental note: let bdmurray be the one to push the button
[22:46] <ScottK> He looks kind of scary.  Good idea.
[22:53] <SpamapS> I'm seeing "Awaiting Approval" on my uploads today, are we frozen?
[22:54] <slangasek> yes
[22:54] <slangasek> ^^ /topic :)
[22:54] <SpamapS> For some reason I thought that wouldn't happen for a week. :p
[22:55] <slangasek> that had been the thinking earlier on; see latest u-d-a mail from skaet for the current plan
[22:59] <SpamapS> Alright, so if its not milestoned to ubuntu-11.04 + Critical, its not going in?
[23:05] <slangasek> SpamapS: for packages in main, the bar is high - but probably not yet so high as 'critical'
[23:12] <firefly2442> Does Ubuntu have a team that creates and examines metrics associated with the data that is available?
[23:13] <bryceh> a metrics team?  no
[23:13] <firefly2442> Specifically, I'm thinking of how developers are communicating, what they are communicating about, bug fix data, and all these inter-relationships?
[23:13] <bryceh> the developers are communicating about a very wide variety of things
[23:16] <firefly2442> yes, I know Ubuntu is quite large and there are many developers working on it, I'm interested in trying to datamine this to find out how it can be improved (make sure the right people are communicating, making it easier for new users to join, etc.)
[23:17] <firefly2442> Is there a mailing list that might be appropriate for a discussion of this?
[23:17] <firefly2442> ubuntu-devel-discuss perhaps?
[23:17] <bryceh> yeah maybe
[23:18] <bryceh> guess it depends a lot on the specifics of what you're interested in
[23:20] <firefly2442> yeah, it's kind of involved, maybe an email to this mailing list would help
[23:20] <firefly2442> thank you
[23:20] <bryceh> sure, good luck