AlanBellPendulum: yup I think so, how are you?00:05
AlanBellWish you were here00:06
* AlanBell is perhaps a tiny bit pissed00:11
AzelphurHmm, I'm having a fun technical conundrum with my new sky connection00:16
AzelphurI have a dynamic DNS which points to my external IP, all good00:17
AzelphurAnd I use my router which just connects via their router with DHCP00:17
daftykinsis it an amusing one? :>00:17
Azelphurso my real router's wan address is, but my external address is obviously not xD00:17
AzelphurI need nat reflection for the external IP to work :x00:17
daftykinsare you double NAT'ing 0o00:18
Azelphurwonder how I could get dd-wrt to nat reflect the dynamic IP that it knows nothing about lol00:18
Azelphurdaftykins: no, and my port forwarding setup works.00:18
Azelphur(so I can access my stuff externally, but I can't access it internally because no NAT reflection :D)00:18
hamitrontracert it every 2 mins?00:18
Azelphurwat o.O00:19
daftykinsyou could just grep info from an IP whois service then code your own dyndns submitter? :D00:19
ali12341you need to configure your router to use a ppp half bridge00:20
* hamitron uses half bridge00:20
ali12341also don't access your local services through nat, go directly to the lan with avahi00:20
PendulumAlanBell: possibly more than a tiny bit00:20
Azelphurali12341: but I want there to be one address I can access the services internally or externally00:21
ali12341just no00:21
Azelphur...why not?00:21
ali12341use a hostname instead00:21
hamitronI do that with iptables on my router00:21
Azelphurali12341: I do use a hostname00:21
Azelphurhome.azelphur.com points at my home address :p00:22
ali12341also it sounds a lot like you have double nat00:22
Azelphurand that's what I use to access stuff00:22
AzelphurI don't have a double nat, the sky router is configured to DMZ the DD-WRT router00:22
Azelphurand my port forwards work.00:22
ali12341that's double nat00:22
Azelphurok then :P00:22
Azelphurnot sure how much I can do to fix that from a sky router00:23
ali12341configure it for half bridge00:23
ali12341it sucks but it's better than what you have00:23
hamitronif it does half-bridge?00:23
ali12341if it doesn't do half bridge then just hack it00:23
hamitronyou could use DNAT on the router too00:24
ali12341so which router does your PC get DHCP from?00:24
Azelphurali12341: dd-wrt00:25
ali12341and dd-wrt is default gateway?00:25
ali12341you have a few options actually00:26
ali12341you can dmz dd-wrt then put the servers behind it, then connect PCs to sky router00:27
ali12341echo home.azelphur.com >> /etc/hosts00:27
ali12341then it should work00:27
hamitronI'd make the dmz in front of the dd-wrt00:27
ali12341you can also do that in the DNS settings on dd-wrt00:28
ali12341if you keep the PCs behind it and it runs DNS00:28
ali12341half bridge is going to be the simplest though00:28
ali12341even better just get the router firmware and reverse the password algorithm00:29
hamitronor you could set the dd-wrt to mangle tcp/ip packets \o/00:29
hamitronI like iptables, and not messing with local dns :)00:30
hamitronali12341: what is wrong with half bridging?00:33
ali12341it's a nasty hack00:33
daftykinsNAT's a hack too :>00:33
ali12341half bridging isn't as bad as a double nat00:34
daftykinslol i was right about double NAT then, nasty00:34
hamitronI have half bridging... then double nat behind that :/00:35
hamitronjust cuz I can00:35
daftykinsyou guys are just masochistic00:35
daftykinsi remember being on Quakenet, some guy coming on asking about setting it up00:35
daftykinsme saying he'd have to use one subnet on the first device, and another on the second00:36
daftykinse.g. 192.168.0.x and 192.168.1.x00:36
daftykinsand he steadfastly refused to accept that as truth, hurled 'verbal' abuse and then left00:36
daftykinsgood times00:36
ali12341i don't get it00:36
daftykinsmore of a personal story thing really00:37
daftykinsno actual joke00:37
hamitronwhat happens if you have 4 network cards, each on a seperate network?00:37
daftykinsjust amazed at the stubborness of some to accept fact at times00:37
daftykinswell the level below still needs to be on a different subnet so it knows where to route packets00:38
ali12341maybe you just didn't understand the problem00:38
daftykinsif so i had others in agreeance with me, equally confused00:38
ali12341Azelphur: what router is it? d-link?00:38
daftykinswow i actually countered your attitude politely \o/00:38
daftykinsself high-five00:38
Azelphurali12341: I can't etc/hosts an android phone and a bunch of PCs XD00:40
Azelphurali12341: it's the stock sky one, not sure what00:40
daftykinsblack, curved front?00:41
hamitronAzelphur: why you need to host loads of stuff?00:41
daftykinsnetgear DG834G rebranded as a DG934G00:41
daftykinsif it's the one my house had from tenants getting sky :o00:41
Azelphurhamitron: I have an XMPP server I use for all my chat, so what ever device I'm on, where ever I am, it needs to just work :D00:41
hamitronwhy not put the XMPP server in front of the dd-wrt?00:42
Azelphuruhh, because then I'd have my entire PC in front of the dd-wrt00:42
Azelphurand then dd-wrt would be pointless00:42
daftykinswhy are you even running a second router D:00:43
Azelphurdaftykins: because sky T&C's :P00:43
Azelphurand DD-WRT doesn't suck00:43
hamitroninstall another network card in your PC?00:43
Azelphurgetting crazy now people xD00:44
AzelphurI just need nat reflection to work00:44
Azelphurthen everything works fine00:44
hamitronthen you can be be in front and behind at same time ;)00:44
ali12341nat reflection you seek is up to the sky router00:44
AzelphurI see00:44
daftykinscan you not use one of those sites to find the real user+pass on the router00:45
daftykinsand then transplant a normal ADSL router / mod that one to official netgear firmware?00:45
Azelphurdaftykins: I can, but I was kinda hoping to stick to the sky router just for the lulz00:45
ali12341here is the instructions for the newest router they ship: http://pathogenrush.blogspot.com/search/label/DSL2640S00:45
ali12341if you want to keep the sky router, then obtain a root login and reconfigure it's firewall00:45
AzelphurI guess I'll get a modem and do that *shrug*00:45
daftykinsi've still got one of the DG934G's at my house00:46
daftykinsi was going to pinch it and mod it into a normal DG834G for the lulz00:46
Azelphuranyone recommend a nice stand alone modem00:46
ali12341they don't ship those any more00:46
Azelphurto go into the wan port on my router :D00:46
daftykinsyes, i bought a draytek one a bit ago00:46
daftykinsdraytek vigor 220 USB or something00:46
daftykinsit was about £40 from dabs00:47
hamitronsafecom asr800000:47
ali12341why do you need a modem?00:47
ali12341reflash the sky router to be a modem00:47
daftykinsi've got it on a client's smoothwall PC00:47
daftykins<o/ \o>00:47
ali12341if your're not going to use it00:47
daftykinsmod it to the stock netgear and you can make it a modem only using a hidden page00:47
ali12341i bet it has half bridge anyway00:47
Azelphurali12341: because I want to keep the sky router so that when there's an issue with the connection sky can't say fuck you go away :D00:47
* hamitron would just use the sky router in default setup, then use magic on the dd-wrt00:48
Azelphurali12341: so I don't want to root/low level mess with the sky router so that I can just plug it in when there's a problem and say look the lines broken00:48
ali12341your easiest way is to just change the DNS in dd-wrt00:49
ali12341to point to dd-wrt instead of the sky router00:49
AzelphurI need a modem so that my cable router can do ADSL :)00:49
Azelphurand it needs to be ADSL2+00:49
hamitronpoint to his comp you mean ali1234100:49
AzelphurI'm starting to not like this sky router anyway00:49
hamitronhis comp is hosting the service....00:49
AzelphurEvery time I get a disconnect for rate adaption, it says all web pages are 40400:50
Azelphurso the router is clearly doing something it shouldn't with my web traffic00:50
ali12341Azelphur: yeah that is pretty typical these days in crap ISp routers00:50
Azelphurwhat's the purpose?00:50
ali12341to stop people ringing up tech support00:50
ali12341same as with everything00:50
Azelphurso that makes me want to get rid of their router rather rapidly00:52
AzelphurADSL2+ Modem it is :D00:52
hamitronyou could go with a proper isp? ;)00:53
Azelphurhamitron: what's ISP have to do with my internal hardware setup?00:54
hamitronwould let you use a normal router00:54
ali12341well you could get an ISP that tells you the password00:54
Azelphurhamitron: I can use a normal router :D00:54
Azelphurand I can get the password00:54
Azelphurand that's what I plan to do00:54
AzelphurI just need an ADSL2+ modem to connect to it, suggestions? :D00:54
ali12341or you could listen to me and just add a DNS entry for your hostname00:54
Azelphurali12341: how/where?00:55
ali12341in dd-wrt, /etc/hosts00:55
Azelphurthat works :)00:55
ali12341then any requests for home.azelphur.com go to and you can configure dd-wrt to handle them however you want00:56
AlanBellPendulum: that is just about possible, yet00:56
ali12341Azelphur: looks like you need to do a few things, first is to determine if dd-wrt already runs a dns server00:58
Azelphurconfusing \o/00:59
Azelphurali12341: I kinda wanna be rid of the router because of the weird HTTP Proxy thing.00:59
ali12341you can probably kill that with firewall01:00
ali12341it will be done by DNS mangling01:00
Azelphurwould be easier to just get an ADSL2+ modem and remove the sky router from the equation01:00
ali12341so tell dd-wrt to skip over the DNS it gets from DHCP (which point to the sky router) and go direct to ISP DNS01:01
ali12341sure if you like spending money01:01
AzelphurI'm cool with spending money :D01:01
Azelphurso recommendations on an ADSL2+ Modem?01:01
ali12341i dunno i would never use a modem01:02
Azelphursomething without all the bells and whistles :p01:02
ali12341modems are identical to routers but with only 1 ethernet port on them01:02
ali12341they run almost identical firmware01:02
AzelphurI see01:03
Azelphurmy usual setup is to have a dumb modem and my router dials PPPoE01:03
Azelphuris that sane?01:03
ali12341why have two boxes when you can have one?01:04
* popey tickles AlanBell 01:04
* AlanBell tickles popey01:04
Azelphurali12341: the DD-WRT router with an ethernet port can't connect to ADSL?01:04
AlanBelland finds typing challenging01:04
hamitronali12341: why have 1 when you can have 2?01:04
ali12341Azelphur: so get a new router then01:05
AlanBellthe keys are not quite where I left them01:05
AlanBellnn popey01:05
hamitronis there a dd-wrt with dsl?01:05
Azelphurali12341: I don't want to replace my £120 Linksys WRT610N running DD-WRT01:05
Azelphuralso ^01:05
AlanBellnever have I found tab complete on the word popey useful before01:05
ali12341Azelphur: "router dials PPPoE" is same as half bridge btw01:05
Azelphurcool :D01:05
ali12341it's fairly rubbish01:05
Azelphurwhys it rubbish?01:06
ali12341because you have two routers that can mess up instead of one01:06
hamitronanother way to look at it, each router has less "load" on it01:07
Azelphurali12341: if it's a Router with an ADSL modem built in, isn't it 2 devices in one case anyway?01:07
ali12341Azelphur: no01:07
ali12341routers are 1 chip01:07
Azelphurthe reason I bought a cable router was so that when I switch connection type, what ever connection I switch to it should work fine on the ethernet port01:07
Azelphurso a connection switch = swap out the modem01:07
Azelphurand at the same time I keep a high powered modem which is capable of handling the heavy load at my house01:08
Azelphurhigh powered router*01:08
AzelphurA shitty £20 netgear works fine if you've got 1-2 people on it01:08
ali12341a DSL router can use ethernet as WAN too if it runs dd-wrt01:08
Azelphurbut when you stick 10 people on a £20 netgear you have a problem01:08
ali12341router troubles from multiple users are caused by nat conntracking01:09
Azelphurno, they are caused by load :p01:09
ali12341which won't be a problem for half bridge, cos the modem won't see the nat01:09
ali12341no, really01:09
ali12341for a modem there is no difference between 1 http download saturating the pipe and lots of connections doing same01:10
ali12341because everything is encapsulated in ppp packets before it hits the modem01:10
AlanBellnight night all01:10
Azelphurali12341: and now you understand why my setup is the way it is :D01:10
Azelphurone high powered router to take the load01:10
Azelphurand a modem.01:10
ali12341a modem which does nothing...01:11
Azelphurapart from provide the ADSL bridge01:11
ali12341and could just as easily be in the router01:11
AlanBell  /4301:11
AlanBellnah, didn't mean that01:11
* AlanBell is too drunk to operate IRC01:12
Azelphurali12341: yea, but there arn't many decent ADSL routers, and as I said I wanted the portability to cable/wimax when it comes available in my area01:12
ali12341wrt610 isn't even that powerful, it's bcm471801:13
* hamitron recommends a proper comp as a router01:13
ali12341heh, you can over clock it01:14
Azelphurhamitron: I did that for a while but opted for something lower power01:14
Azelphurit's pretty good for my house, it stays stable all the time :D01:14
Azelphurso yea now we've come to the conclusion my setup is somewhat sane xD01:15
Azelphurdecent ADSL2+ Modems for the job?01:15
ali12341i disagree but w/e01:16
Azelphurali12341: how would you do it?01:16
ali12341and i still think you should just fix it all with DNS01:16
ali12341i would get the cheapest dsl router on ebay that can run openwrt01:17
ali12341i wouldn't expect to pay more than £101:17
ali12341but my internet can't go faster than 10mbit01:18
ali12341if i were you i would fix it in DNS with what i already had01:18
Azelphurali12341: I could fix it up yea but I just don't like the sky router any more, the fact that they are messing with my web traffic makes me wonder what else they are messing with so I'd prefer to be on legit equipment :P01:19
Azelphurthey violated my trust >:(01:19
ali12341it's a simple DNS trick they use01:21
ali12341if internet connection is down all hostnames resolve to the sky router01:21
AzelphurI get that :)01:21
hamitronso just a few DNS tweaks and something to set your dynamic dns service, jobs a good one?01:22
ali12341pretty much01:22
ali12341i would also firewall off their router incase there are backdoors or something01:22
hamitroni'd guess the dd-wrt already is01:22
Azelphurali12341: or I could just get an ADSL2+ modem and not worry about it because it'd be gone :D01:22
hamitronAzelphur: apart from teh cost, you'd have to wait01:23
ali12341although if they want to mess with your traffic they will do it in their datacentre, not in the router01:23
hamitronnot worth it :)01:23
ali12341if you don't trust their router how can you trust any part of their service?01:23
ali12341i just think if you buy a modem you'll end up with a different but equally annoying set of problems01:29
ali12341better the devil you know01:30
hamitronabout the dns pointing to the router ali12341.....01:31
hamitronthe internal ip of the router?01:31
ali12341how about it?01:31
hamitronso how do you then move the traffic from the router to a comp on the internal network?01:32
ali12341the nat does it01:32
ali12341because you can turn on reflection01:32
ali12341you don't point it to the internal ip01:32
ali12341you point it to the external ip01:32
hamitronah, reflection is an option in linux?01:33
ali12341which is also internal on the next level of nat01:33
hamitronassume it is enabled similar to packet forwarding?01:34
ali12341it's just about how you set up the firewall rules01:34
hamitronoh, so an arguement to iptables?01:35
ali12341it's not an option01:35
ali12341it's a side effect of the whole way your firewall is configured01:35
daftykinssleeps for me01:36
daftykinslater all o/01:36
hamitronmine doesn't01:36
ali12341also, split-horizon dns01:38
hamitronI've used Split-Horizon and Seperate network01:40
ali12341i am assuming that dd-wrt supports reflection by default and that it worked before with the old modem01:40
hamitronso reflection is RDR-TO and NAT-TO Combination?01:43
ali12341if you;re using pf01:43
hamitronsounds hard to config01:44
ali12341linux uses netfilter01:44
hamitronso how would RDR-TO and NAT-TO Combination be done?01:45
hamitronor anything with redirecting traffic01:46
ali12341on iptables you would do something like this: http://www.zeroshell.net/eng/forum/viewtopic.php?p=655&sid=1aa52f098f1a0aeccd712827ee7739d9#65501:46
ali12341prerouting vs postrouting01:47
hamitronI'll have to give it another go sometime01:51
hamitronI tried this about 7 years ago and never got it working01:51
hamitronso just changed the dns01:51
hamitrondidn't have the time to play01:51
ali12341changing the dns is prefered01:51
hamitronbut I wanted to learn iptables01:52
ali12341stuffing all LAN packets through a cheap router won't end well01:52
hamitronit will be a dell server01:52
hamitronI don't even rate my wrt54GL tbh01:53
hamitronI switched to it from a proper comp with 4 NIC, and the comp was loads better01:53
ali12341in what way?01:53
hamitronI find when i have friends round, can get lag spikes01:53
hamitronunless i am careful with the simultanious connections01:54
hamitronbut suppose I maybe expect too much01:55
ali12341i've never had problems01:55
hamitronbut for sure the 2.53ghz celeron beat the 200mhz router01:55
hamitronit handles 12 users ok if I stop the torrent server01:56
ali12341torrents are heavy on the router01:57
hamitrontorrents + 12 gamers = death01:57
ali1234112 users will just be plain heavy on the bandwidth but the router should have no problems01:57
hamitronunless I have a full blown comp on the job01:58
hamitronali12341: it gets upto 4000 connections01:58
Azelphurali12341: I had a modem before01:59
Azelphurand I was 100% fine with it01:59
Azelphurbut when I switched to sky my dad took the modem xD01:59
Azelphurso buying a new modem restores me to my old 100% working setup01:59
hamitronas it happens, the VIA C3 850mhz cpu comp was my router for a while too :)02:00
hamitronit was better than the wrt54gl02:00
ali12341with torrents, you need ram, not cpu02:01
ali12341because it opens so many connections02:01
hamitronwell, suppose they had 256mb ram02:01
ali12341it fills the conntrack tables up02:01
Azelphurali12341: yea, my router has shitloads of ram :D02:01
hamitronbetter than the router02:01
ali12341you can also tweak the kernel settings02:01
AzelphurIt's a high spec router, we have multiple P2P users in the house :D02:01
hamitronwrt54gl has 32mb?02:01
ali12341some routers are configured to remember connections for 2 days after they close02:02
ali12341that's completely unnecessary02:02
Azelphurindeed XD02:02
Azelphurso back to my original idea does anyone know a nice ADSL2+ Modem? :D02:02
shaunoAzelphur: when's the last time you had a problem where the real answer wasn't just "get your own place"  :p02:02
AzelphurI know it will work how I want because it worked how I want for the past 3 odd years with my old ISP XD02:03
Azelphurshauno: a long time :-(02:03
hamitronali12341: is 3600 seconds too long for tcp?02:03
ali12341if the tables are filling up then probably02:03
hamitronthey aren't now tbh, but they have in the past02:04
ali12341wrt54gl has only 16mb?02:05
hamitronsays so02:05
hamitronmax connections is 4096 anyway02:06
hamitron23 days since the last long power cut02:10
hamitronshould be getting another sometime soon ;/02:11
hamitronUPS is on its last legs too02:11
hamitronnn all o/02:43
kaushalwhat is unity in 11.04 ?02:58
kaushalis it a desktop ?02:58
ballMet a couple of Linux users at work today.04:58
ballThat made me happy.04:58
* ball wanders off in search of a cake.05:37
shaunocake \o/06:28
MartijnVdScake = lie :(06:48
shaunoheh, so I said that and my modem dropped.  spooky07:00
MartijnVdSthe internet is trying to tell you something07:01
shaunoglados is coming :/07:01
MartijnVdSshauno: http://www.aperturescience.com/glados@home/07:01
shaunotrying to figure out how to stuff input into a running screen session.  it's fighting back :(07:02
MartijnVdSshauno: screen -r ?07:04
shaunotrying to do so from another script, so attaching it doesn't work07:04
MartijnVdShave the thing inside screen listen on a named pipe, write to that07:05
MartijnVdSmknod \o07:05
shaunotried that (mkfifo :p).  java appears to fail entirely on it07:05
MartijnVdSWell THERE's your problem :P07:06
shaunoI know :/07:06
shaunominecrack strikes again07:06
MartijnVdSmaybe tmux can do it?07:07
* ball falls overf07:38
shaunowell, getting somewhere finally.  ugly, ugly bash script but should stop me doing the same things over 'n over07:57
shaunoyou know you're making a mess when a script starts with: while getopts ":rsSpfbmaoOh" ...07:59
kaushalis gnome3 available in 11.04 ?08:01
MartijnVdSkaushal: Try entering that exact question in google, then hit "I'm feeling lucky"08:19
kaushalthanks MartijnVdS08:19
shaunohttp://paste.ubuntu.com/594753/  maybe the most productive thing I'll do at work all day08:57
shaunoI'm almost proud of how ugly that is :)08:57
kaushalgammu --config usb1  --identify Error opening device, you don't have permissions.09:12
kaushalAny clue ?09:13
Myrttiwhat phone are you trying to connect kaushal?09:33
kaushalMyrtti: please give me a moment09:49
AlanBellugh. Morning all09:51
MartijnVdSAlanBell: HI ALAN HOW WAS THE BEER?09:52
MartijnVdShm record store day09:53
AlanBellmy head hurts09:53
* MartijnVdS gives AlanBell some strong tea09:53
shaunotea?  protip: you're doing it wrong09:54
MartijnVdSshauno: nothing wrong with some good strong tea09:55
shaunokinda less than useful for the head :)09:56
AlanBellquiz night tonight09:56
MartijnVdSwhy? it's water..09:56
shaunoyou don't rehydrate your brain with polite little sips of tea.  you guzzle water while you (or preferably, someone else) fix up a decent fried breakky09:57
MartijnVdSshauno: ah.. I forgot y'all are British and drink tea in little sips :P09:58
shaunoheh.  I actually perfected this in ireland.  it's basically an entire nation of functional alcoholics.  very educational :)09:58
=== damian_ is now known as damian
czajkowskiAlanBell: rookie mistake, grab a can of coke first thing in the morning sorts you out10:01
gordonjcpshauno: Irn Bru, preferably a little warm and flat10:02
gordonjcpgoes down quicker that way10:02
shaunoI haven't seen irn bru here :/10:02
gordonjcpI guess coke would work, but it doesn't have enough caffeine10:03
shaunoI did find it in the states, but severely underestimated what shipping would be on 24 glass bottles.  only made that mistake once10:03
damianand here is me with my 1st coffee of the day and its a decaf10:03
brobostigongood morning everyone.10:06
damianmorning brobostigon10:06
brobostigonmorning damian10:07
AlanBellczajkowski: did the boy make it home?10:07
* brobostigon really needs to setup mumble again ready for tonight,10:12
* AlanBell connects to mumble10:13
MartijnVdSI really need to go out and buy a proper headset10:13
MartijnVdSYou know what.. I'm going to do that NOW :)10:14
AlanBellyeah, cheap one will do just fine10:14
MartijnVdSatm I have none10:14
* danfish has to go to a "dinner party" tonight. Dreadful concept :(10:14
shaunoheadset is pretty much mandatory here, thanks to someone's bright idea of sticking the microphone 1" away from the fans in what's a rather hot laptop :/10:15
danfishmorning all10:15
MartijnVdSdanfish: feign illness10:15
MartijnVdSshauno: yeah I have the same problem.. also, even on the lowest volume setting the mic picks up sound from the speakears10:15
danfishMartijnVdS: I won't need to tomorrow - the cook tonight is dreadful10:15
brobostigongood morning danfish10:15
MartijnVdSdanfish: oh you're cooking?10:16
danfishhaha - no, my mother in law10:16
jonsainthi all. anyone about to help10:17
danfishthe only consolation is I'm taking round their laptop refurbished with ubuntu :)10:17
lubotu3Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)10:17
jonsaintok. i got a no entry sign at the top of my screen and the update manager wont update. i dont know whats wrong with it.10:18
danfishjonsaint: lots of people around in various states of hangover :)10:18
danfishis there an error message?10:19
brobostigonjonsaint: does updating manually with "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" still work?10:19
jonsaintil try it10:22
jonsainte: encountered a section with no package: header10:23
jonsaintthen it says something about a problem with ergelist10:24
brobostigon!info ergelist10:25
lubotu3Package ergelist does not exist in maverick10:25
brobostigon!info ergelist natty10:25
lubotu3Package ergelist does not exist in natty10:25
jonsaintso what does this mean??10:26
shaunomost likely mergelist, which is internal to dpkg10:26
jonsainteverything was working fine then all of a sudden it happened10:27
shaunowould it be possible to paste the entire output of 'sudo apt-get update' onto pastebin?  the mergelist message isn't the fault, it's a symptom.10:29
lubotu3For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.10:29
jonsainthow do i do this?? im a fairly new user to ubuntu10:31
shaunoif you open paste.ubuntu.com, it'll give you a big textbox to paste into it.  just copy & paste, and hit submit10:31
shaunoit'll just let us read the entire error message10:32
jonsaintok ive done it10:33
shaunookay, now give us the address of the new page it sent you to so we can see it :)10:33
jonsaintthe http bit?10:33
shaunoah, no worries, I found http://paste.ubuntu.com/594774/10:34
jonsaintthats it10:34
shaunohm, I thought there'd be more there :/10:34
jonsaintthats all there was when i clicked on the no entry sign10:35
danfishah, knackered merge list10:35
shaunoyeah.  I was expecting to see it complain about junk / invalid characters at line such & such10:36
danfishtry sudo rm /var/lib/apt/lists/* -vf then sudo apt-get update10:36
jonsaint1 sec then10:37
jonsaintwoo hoo! superb!10:38
jonsaintguys i dont know how to thank you enough! it worked.10:38
jonsaintwell im outta here. im in the middle of moving house lol10:39
shaunoheh, I didn't know these things were safe to nuke.  thanks for stepping in before I went digging to see why it didn't like it :)10:42
danfishthe nuclear option is sometimes the only option ;)10:44
danfish(unless your in a earthquake zone) <--- ?too topical10:45
damian Ive got really slow uploads 300-400mins from 64bit Ubuntu 10.10 to youtube, yet the same video on Win7 flies up 80mins. Any ideas?10:46
DJonesDon't you just love it when your wife says can you install ubuntu on her new laptop, she hates Windows :)11:04
shaunono idea mine has a macbook ;)11:04
shauno(add commas to taste)11:05
DJonesHeh, mine got put off windows a couple of years ago and she used ubuntu on her old laptop for a couple of years, now she's got a new one, she's spent a week with win 7 and hates it11:06
shaunosurveying my train station to see what impact next minecraft patch will have.  I think I'm getting off almost scott-free11:12
Myrttiwell, that was productive11:24
* brobostigon blames gpulockup/hang on flash11:32
brobostigongood afternoon Pendulum12:01
brobostigonhmm, russell howards good news,clashes with the quiz, :(12:05
kvarleybrobostigon: iPlayer12:07
brobostigonkvarley: yes, only solution.12:08
MartijnVdSWhat time is the quiz again?12:10
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: your time or mine ;)12:10
brobostigoni think.12:10
brobostigonMartijnVdS: mine.12:10
brobostigonanyone around to help me test mumble, and get it set right, please.12:14
brobostigongood fternoon HazRPG :)12:14
HazRPGbrobostigon: hmm?12:14
Pendulumi can be in about 30 seconds12:14
HazRPGbrobostigon: whats up with mumble?12:14
Pendulumbrobostigon: ^^12:14
PendulumHazRPG: I think he's talking about his own set up12:14
HazRPGbrobostigon: also, good afternoon :)12:14
brobostigonHazRPG: i just cant get the sound setup right.12:14
HazRPGbrobostigon: oh12:15
HazRPGPendulum: indeed12:15
HazRPGbrobostigon: does things just sound wrong, or not the right levels?12:15
HazRPGbrobostigon: or own server?12:15
brobostigonHazRPG: i am using the server we used for the globaljam, and i cant seem to get the voice detection settings right,12:16
HazRPGbrb a second, just going to move back to my office/computer room (only just woke up and hopped onto laptop to see whats up :))12:16
HazRPGbrobostigon: ah ok, gimmie a moment to run downstairs :)12:16
* HazRPG presses F612:17
brobostigonHazRPG: ok, :)12:17
Pendulumbrobostigon: I'll also be on in a sec12:18
brobostigonPendulum: ok, :)12:18
HazRPGman I love ssh/irssi/vps :D12:20
HazRPGhow I lived without, I have NO IDEA!12:20
HazRPGbrobostigon: right, mumble...12:20
brobostigonHazRPG: :)12:21
MartijnVdS\o HazRPG12:21
brobostigonhangover central popey ?12:24
popeynot really, no12:24
popeyjust nice lie in :)12:24
danfishlucky sod :)12:37
Pendulumhas anyone seen AlanBell this morning? he'd be another on my candidates for hangover today12:39
Pendulums/this morning/today12:39
HazRPGbrobostigon: new commodore: http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx12:41
HazRPGwoah no way! The new commodores come with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS!!!12:42
AlanBellhi Pendulum12:50
PendulumAlanBell: how's your head?12:50
Romeo_Hi guys have a quick question regarding linux/ubuntu, is it true that your isp cant be tracked? what im asking is can my isp see what im doing? i dont have nothing to hide but i dont like the idea of being tracked, i know they can track you with windows but someone told me that you cant get tracked on linux not sure if its true12:54
AlanBellRomeo_: your ISP isn't interested12:55
Romeo_thanx but that doesnt answer my question :)12:55
AlanBelldoesn't make much difference what operating system you are using, if you want things to be secure use encryption such as a VPN or tor12:55
HazRPGbrobostigon: straight from dropbox wiki about headless: http://wiki.dropbox.com/TipsAndTricks/TextBasedLinuxInstall12:56
Romeo_how do i use vpn encrytion?12:57
lubotu3For more information on vpn please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VPN12:57
AlanBellit creates a secure tunnel between where you are and somewhere else12:57
AlanBellyou need to have the "somewhere else" bit arranged somehow12:57
AlanBellto an extent that just moves the problem as you can be tracked from the other end12:58
AlanBellbut it does allow you to be in an insecure network such as a conference wireless, and VPN to home, and to all intents and purposes you will appear to be at home12:58
lubotu3Tor is a program to route connections through several servers for anonymity. It is not in Ubuntu's repositories. For setup info, see option (2) of https://www.torproject.org/docs/debian.html.en | To use Tor on freenode, see !tor-sasl12:59
AlanBelltor is how to do anonymity properly12:59
AlanBellpersonally I can't be bothered12:59
HazRPGbrobostigon: hmm, everything sound like they're talking in alien :S13:27
HazRPGhang on closing mumble13:27
HazRPGbrobostigon: back in now13:28
HazRPGthink its fixed :D13:28
* brobostigon has garlic sausage sandwiches and ginger beer.13:29
brobostigonoh, and sausage rolls,13:30
HazRPGaww, everyone's mute/deafened on mumble... did I scare everyone off?13:31
MartijnVdSHazRPG: with your northernness, you mean? :P13:31
HazRPGMartijnVdS: apparently!13:32
MartijnVdS(I'll always remember "Lots of planets have a North!" :))13:32
HazRPGheh who said that :P?13:32
brobostigonHazRPG: i just dont want everyone to hear my munching13:33
MartijnVdSHazRPG: some Doctor :)13:33
dutchieooh, that's tonight, isn't it13:33
MartijnVdSdutchie: next week13:33
HazRPGMartijnVdS: :P13:33
HazRPGbrobostigon: ah, that makes sense13:33
MartijnVdSdutchie: Eurovision song contest is tonight13:33
dutchieMartijnVdS: i meant the ubuntu-uk quiz, not dr who13:34
MartijnVdSdutchie: ah13:34
dutchiethe mumble chatter reminded me13:34
* MartijnVdS needs to set up mutter again on the laptop13:34
Myrttiqueue queue queue queue13:58
popeypip pip14:00
brobostigonmeep meep14:01
MartijnVdSgo go gadget?14:01
* HazRPG wonders if the newest version of chrome tackles the flash problem...14:04
* HazRPG along with the "I don't think I'm default" issue from the previous update14:04
MartijnVdShmm... micro-sdhc 32GB is cheap14:04
MartijnVdSand I'm running out of space on the 8G in my phone :|14:05
HazRPGmusic + pics?14:05
MartijnVdSHazRPG: music mostly, but some photos as well14:05
HazRPGshock horror flash still doesn't understand how to do fullscreen14:06
HazRPGalthough seems the "haha I'm dumb and don't know I'm default" issue has been fixed \o/14:07
MartijnVdSFull screen works fine in chromium for me14:07
MartijnVdSon intel14:07
HazRPGMartijnVdS: bah14:07
MartijnVdS*\o/* intel14:08
HazRPGnvidia for teh lose :(14:08
* MartijnVdS stopped buying nvidia ages ago14:08
HazRPGMartijnVdS: does intel release their code???14:08
MartijnVdSHazRPG: intel is all-open14:08
HazRPGMartijnVdS: I technically did, this is just the same graphics card from like... erm... ancient times lol (8800GTS)14:09
MartijnVdSHazRPG: Wow.. weren't those carved from rocks? :)14:09
HazRPGMartijnVdS: Then why does their audio drives suck :P? (Too many connections!) according to ubuntu14:09
MartijnVdSIntel HDA? That's probably the codec chip that's badly supported14:10
HazRPGMartijnVdS: tis :(14:10
MartijnVdSthat was fixed on my laptop somewhere between maverick and natty14:10
HazRPGevery so often, sounds turn "alien" on this PC14:10
MartijnVdSno no no, every so often, you turn human :P14:11
KrimZondoes anyone know how to set up an ubuntu server to route between two networks on different interfaces?14:13
KrimZonI feel I'm missing a checklist of things - it was working and I changed other stuff and it broke14:15
AlanBellyou need to flip a flag in /proc somewhere14:15
KrimZonI did that14:15
AlanBellthe ipv4forward thing?14:15
KrimZonI get Destination Net Unreachable from my ISP rather than the router14:15
hamitrongot the routes setup?14:16
KrimZonI think that's what I don't have set up, and don't know where to set them up so that they'll stick14:16
KrimZonor where they were set up originally14:16
hamitronoh, do you need NAT?14:16
KrimZonahh, the routes are present but don't have a gateway specified14:17
KrimZonI tried setting the gateway lines in /etc/network/interfaces to the router's IP, but that doesn't seem to work14:19
hamitronso you have a router performing NAT, then a linux router you are trying to setup behind that?14:19
KrimZonno nat14:20
KrimZonoh, yes, the router is performing nat but that's not the one I'm concerned with14:20
KrimZonit's what you asked if it was14:20
hamitronI was just confirming you have some form of NAT to get to the WW14:21
KrimZonit's basically ISP - NAT - Network 1 - Ubuntu Server - Network 214:22
AzelphurHmm, Apparently last night I kept on reconnecting due to excess flood :(14:22
hamitronthe computers on network 1 need 2 gateways14:22
KrimZonnetwork 2 is what I can't ping into or out from14:23
hamitronto know where to send packets to get back to network 214:23
KrimZonhow do I set that up?14:23
hamitronerm, iirc, route14:23
damianAnyone know why uploads to Youtube are so slow on Ubuntu compared to Windows 7?14:23
KrimZonon the ubuntu server?14:23
Azelphuron freenode I'm on too many channels when I connect I get excess flooded haha14:23
KrimZonand does route last between reboots and networking restarts?14:24
hamitronthere must be something on this14:25
HazRPGooo crap... I has meeting in like half hr!14:25
* HazRPG rushes around like a loony to get the place sorted out14:25
KrimZonahh, thanks :)14:26
czajkowskipopey: fun night ?14:27
hamitronkrimzon, 3 network cards are easier to config14:30
KrimZonyeah, they can just be bridged and it'd just be one big network14:31
hamitronyou can have a dedicated forward facing NIC14:31
hamitronso the 2 networks behind just need the default gateway14:31
hamitronthen can NAT on outgoing for the forwarding facing14:32
hamitronforward facing NIC I mean14:32
hamitronkrimzon, I think this is a better source to use for reference http://www.linuxhomenetworking.com/wiki/index.php/Quick_HOWTO_:_Ch03_:_Linux_Networking#How_to_Configure_Two_Gateways14:38
KrimZonhmm, my router appears to have vanished following being given some routing information14:38
hamitronit isn't the router or ubuntu server you will need to play with14:39
hamitronyou will feel like headbutting a wall for a while, but it is rewarding once done14:40
KrimZonoh, I know14:40
KrimZonI must've set everything's gateway to the router14:40
KrimZonthey never properly explain that sort of thing14:40
KrimZonso I'm left wondering what's meant to point to what14:41
hamitronthat last page I gave is a wall of text and knowledge14:41
hamitronsorta wish i had had that when i was trying this14:41
hamitronmy networking book doesn't explain as fully, to save space14:42
hamitron1 down....14:43
KrimZonthat was the server14:44
KrimZonit just stopped responding14:44
KrimZonso, if I don't put this on the server, how do I get it to all the clients?14:44
KrimZonI should just go out to B&Q and fit some ethernet sockets14:45
KrimZonthen my server can go downstairs next to the router14:45
hamitronor could fit another network card14:45
hamitrontbh, it can be done14:46
hamitronwithout all that14:46
hamitronjust need to keep reading and build on that knowledge14:46
hamitronI was lazy and fitted more network cards14:47
KrimZonnetwork cards won't help me, cause the server has to be away from the phone socket14:48
hamitronwhat? you don't give up all cosmetic considerations for your computers? :-o ;)14:52
KrimZonI don't want a wire trailing freely down the stairs, and can't be bothered oking it with the landlord to fit it properly14:53
KrimZonanyway, it still seems like I'm missing some information, cause it froze again14:53
KrimZonit's like "give *something* a network, a mask, a gateway and an interface14:54
KrimZonexcept that routing always involves more than one of those, and more than one possible something14:55
KrimZonhmm, looks like I need to reset another router14:58
dutchieoh, actually14:59
dutchieno point filing a bug on "legacy" gnome2 interface14:59
hamitrongnome2 <3 ;)14:59
dutchiewell it's going away isn't it14:59
dutchieunlikely to get fixed14:59
dutchieand it was only a minor thihg14:59
hamitronI'll be using gnome2 for at least another 18 months15:00
hamitronwaiting for ubuntu 12.04 to be released and major bugs be fixed15:01
KrimZonI'm waiting for the cpu to idle near zero in kde15:01
hamitronKrimZon: I think I may have to setup what you are doing for fun15:02
KrimZonstupid O2 box!15:02
KrimZonI changed its IP address and now it's got lost15:02
kaushalis there a way to use Outlook 2007 Calendar in lightning ?15:02
kaushalI am using Thunderbird15:03
KrimZonhamitron: will you also swear at an o2 box?15:03
kaushalon 10.1015:03
hamitronKrimZon: you'd never see me swear.... ;)15:03
KrimZonoh wait, it's the other router that's the gateway - that might have the routes in15:03
hamitronbut I am too lazy to move and change cabling, so gonna have to use vmware15:04
KrimZonyay, that works15:05
exobuzzoh dear :/ http://digitizor.com/2011/04/15/crashed-unity-canonical-study/15:06
hamitronkaushal: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/faq.html#outlook15:07
KrimZonI'm skeptical about unity15:10
hamitronexobuzz: it would be 6 out of 12 if I tried15:10
exobuzzthe email it links to has a lot of other detail that to me doesn't read well for usability15:10
KrimZonmostly because it's meant to be simpler but apps now minimize to a bunch of different places depending on their type15:11
exobuzzim going to switch to unity now to test it since its been a week or so15:11
KrimZonI ought to try it again just in case15:11
hamitroni just refuse to accept change15:12
hamitronso no point at this stage15:12
hamitronI'm good till 201315:12
hamitronand I'm told the world will end before then15:12
hamitronor something major is gonna happen15:13
=== michael is now known as Guest57187
exobuzzok. so here's one thing - what use are icons this size on a non touchscreen desktop http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/unity.png15:15
exobuzzthe search box, too is massive - i know i have bad eyesight but not that bad ;-)15:17
KrimZonyeah, it's kind of annoying the amount of empty space there is15:18
exobuzzi can see how the ubuntu software centre was mistaken for the recycle bin or something too15:18
KrimZonit feels like there's no definite boundary between places15:18
exobuzz(in the tests)15:19
DJonesThey are a bit big, I've been wondering if there is a way of getting smaller icons myself15:19
exobuzzyou can make the unity icons on the dock smaller, but not these ones it seems15:19
DJonesNot so much for the shortcuts icons, but for the left menu bar15:19
exobuzzi dont actually wanta  full screen of icons. on my joggler yes, on this desktop no15:19
exobuzzi nkow i only ever b*tch about unity on this channel too. sorry but15:19
DJonesexobuzz: Have you gpt a link for how to change the icon size in the dock?15:20
exobuzzDJones, install compiz settings manager and you can do it from the unity prefs there15:20
ali12341krimzon it's supposed to feel like that, it's all supposed to be unified and integrated15:20
DJonesexobuzz: Thanks I'll give that a go15:20
exobuzzif i click top left, and get the search/shortcuts up, then full screen it, then click the top left it goes. when opened its not full screen15:21
hamitronkrimzon, lookup "option static-routes" for the dhcpd server15:21
exobuzzcant even remember my last setting ?15:22
exobuzzif you click "more apps", that window is more useful than the shortcuts etc that first appears.15:22
AlanBell!info blueproximity15:23
lubotu3blueproximity (source: blueproximity): locks/unlocks your desktop tracking a bluetooth device. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2.5-5 (maverick), package size 290 kB, installed size 968 kB15:23
KrimZonmaybe it would be a good idea to use the ubuntu server for dhcp, to keep it all centralized15:25
hamitronkrimzon, yeh15:27
hamitronat the very least you will need to serve dhcpd to the network not connected to the router15:28
hamitronalso, dhcpd on your router may be limited15:29
awilkins/me is migrating South for the bunny festival15:43
exobuzzcould someone else here using unity on natty, tell me whether gnome assistive technologies "simulate second click" is working at all ?15:53
exobuzzi mean please could ;-)15:53
exobuzzdoesn't work here, and I wanted to check if it is just me.15:53
ali12341how do i test it?15:53
exobuzznot even to do a second click on the desktop.15:53
awilkinsSo - royal wedding, tedious pile of rubbish, or shameful waste of money?15:54
exobuzzali12341, load "assistive technologies" from unity, enable it and click "mouse accessibiliy" and enable simulate second click. should be that holding down left mouse "fills" the mouse pointer and then does a right mouse click15:55
gordawilkins, extra day off15:55
MartijnVdSawilkins: yes, and ##politics-uk is that way -->15:55
awilkinsUnity crashes too much for me, I'm forced to admit.15:55
gordwhen did you last try unity?15:56
MartijnVdSlast week15:56
gordthere really aren't many crashers left15:56
exobuzzif simulated second click isnt fgoing to work, then unity is going to be useless on the joggler or other single click touchscreens :(15:56
awilkinsBeta on a live thumb on wednesday15:56
ali12341exobuzz: doesn't work for me15:56
MartijnVdSgord: does crash-and-autorestart count as a crash? :)15:56
gordand you filed your bugs?15:56
ali12341exobuzz: my install is a bit out of date though15:57
gordright now we are fixing crashers faster than they come in15:57
exobuzzali12341, looks like they overlooked accessibility or its a known thing. i reported it anyway..15:57
ali12341bug number?15:57
ali12341i will update and confirm it15:57
exobuzzim sure anyone who relies on this for operating their pc aint going to be happy.15:57
awilkinsOTOH, it's nice on my daughter netbook15:57
exobuzzali12341, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/76280615:57
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 762806 in unity "simulated second click with unity" [Undecided,New]15:57
gordaccessibility wasn't overlooked, its just that accessibility is *huge* - hard to get it all done in six months15:58
awilkinsThis was weird display config - one dispaly on VGA, one on a VGA/displayport adaptor15:58
ali12341setting yourself an impossible time limit for a project sounds a little bit like overlooking to me15:58
awilkinsDisplayport adaptor on started working right and supporting all resolutions non-manually in last 2 months after kernel update15:59
Pendulumgord: IMO what was overlooked is that by saying it's okay for a default to be inaccessible (I know there's another option, but Unity is the default) says that users who need accessibility are 2nd class citizens. Which is not Unity developer's fault15:59
exobuzzgord, so, natty and unity just wont work then on single click touchscreens ?15:59
ali12341unity is fail on touchscreens because of hiding menus15:59
awilkinsBefore has to enable modes with xrandr16:00
hamitronunity is just fail ;)16:00
ali12341but that's by design so good luck getting it "fixed"16:00
Pendulumexobuzz: I've got a bug report where Mark comments that it's not meant for touchscreens (or that they're not within the target market or something similar)16:00
awilkinsBah, crapulous typing on phone keyboard16:00
gordsigh *goes and does other things*16:00
exobuzzPendulum, interesting since the "look" is way off for a desktop machine imho. looks like touchscreen, but doesnt work on touchscreen. interesting one ;-)16:00
ali12341interesting is a nice way of putting it16:01
awilkinsI definitely like the increase is screen estate on a netbook.16:01
exobuzzgord, are you a unity dev ?16:01
Pendulumexobuzz: that's my thought as well16:02
hamitrontbh, nothing wrong with inventing new things.... they just don't always work as expected....16:02
exobuzzPendulum, got a link to the bug report where that is mentioned. id be interested in reading it16:02
Pendulumbug 73981216:04
lubotu3Launchpad bug 739812 in unity (Ubuntu Natty) "Must use hardware keyboard to perform search for applications in Unity" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73981216:04
exobuzzi want unity to be good and i want to like it. I just think some things are not how they should be, but it also feels that when it comes to ubuntu user experience, the users are the last to get any say :)16:04
Pendulumit's also where he mentions that Classic won't be around to fallback to in Oneiric16:04
Pendulum(which pretty much knocks me out of using Ubuntu)16:05
andrew_Anyone familiar with LDAP?16:05
exobuzzremoving classic is worrying, especially if it's another 6 month slow that won;t be enough16:05
Pendulum(but that's because 2D Unity doesn't have a11y and I can't run 3D)16:05
exobuzz(enough to fix up any issues)16:05
=== andrew_ is now known as Guest23386
=== Guest23386 is now known as chambers
exobuzzMark Shuttleworth Why is this critical, Brian? - its pretty critical if you dont have a keyboard ;-)16:06
exobuzzbut ok. high importance anyway16:07
chambersI need to reset my olcRootPw but it's not working and wondered if anyone had any experience with it?16:07
DJonesexobuzz: Thanks for that hint on resizing the icons, worked perfectly16:12
exobuzzhttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility first paragraph went out the window for natty then16:12
exobuzzDJones, did you make em smaller or bigger ? :)16:12
lubotu3GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)16:14
hamitronI should bookmark this ;/16:14
KrimZonoh, I remember why I haven't tried unity much - doesn't work in virtualbox16:15
exobuzzKrimZon, i think it worked when i enabled 3d acceleration. unity 2d should work.16:15
exobuzz(as much as unity does work) ;-)16:15
* TheOpenSourcerer gets excited by the prospect of building an OpenStack cloud architecture inside a VirtualBox VM. https://uksysadmin.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/running-openstack-under-virtualbox-a-complete-guide/16:15
TheOpenSourcererIs that really sad?16:16
KrimZonI just got a message and gnome 2 so I deleted it16:16
exobuzzTheOpenSourcerer, useful for testing i guess? :)16:16
AlanBellyo dawg, we heard you liked VMs16:16
TheOpenSourcererHi AlanBell how are you today?16:16
TheOpenSourcererI'm OK now. Was a tad worse for wear this morning though.16:17
TheOpenSourcererI will hope to be around for the quiz later but we are all going to the Bat & Ball this evening for dinner...16:19
AlanBellyeah, tbh this morning was a bit of a writeoff for me too16:19
AlanBellKrimZon: it totally does work in virtualbox16:20
ubuntuuk-planet[Tony] OggCamp11  It sold out already! - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/04/16/oggcamp11-it-sold-out-already/16:29
KrimZonAlanBell: I enabled 3D acceleration and gave it 64MB16:32
AlanBellinstall virtualbox-ose-guest-x11 in the guest16:33
AlanBellthen it will work16:33
AlanBelldo not mess about with any other guest additions stuff16:33
PendulumTheOpenSourcerer: sign of a good night, I hope :)16:34
PendulumAlanBell: you know that when we connect to the ubuntu uk mumble it moves us all into the Global Jam room, right?17:02
brobostigonhow does beef chilli sound for tea?17:03
Pendulumbrobostigon: yum17:03
Pendulumooh... maybe I'll get curry today!17:03
brobostigonPendulum: i am making my own, i am going to leave it for a while cooking, longer the better i think,17:03
Pendulumbrobostigon: that's even better :)17:04
Pendulumchili is often better the next day :)17:04
brobostigoni need to start making it then, otherwise it wont be redy before te quiz.17:05
AlanBellPendulum: yes17:05
AlanBellI should rename that room really17:05
* brobostigon goes to cook, beer in hand,17:06
DJonesexobuzz: I made them a little bit smaller17:06
nperryHmm, whats the server?17:11
AlanBell!info mumble17:12
lubotu3mumble (source: mumble): Low latency VoIP client. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2.2-4ubuntu0.1 (maverick), package size 2161 kB, installed size 4064 kB17:12
nperryI can, haven't got my mic at the moment :)17:13
* shauno needs to find somewhere appropriate to scream about XP :(17:18
MartijnVdSshauno: /dev/null17:19
shaunoI need to find a bigger sticks for apps that you've already tried to kill, but still won't go away.  sigh.17:20
dwatkinsHooray for Ubuntu and getdeb, which allowed me to install Fuppes to stream media to my PS3 :D17:23
* MartijnVdS uses the synology built-in media streaming bit17:24
dwatkinsnot tried that, but I wanted to test out fuppes before I get a Drobo and run it on there.17:24
MartijnVdSdwatkins: ask popey about drobo :)17:24
nperryAlanBell: Not sure what I've done [17:24] Connecting to server mumble.libertus.co.uk.17:24
nperry[17:24] Server connection failed: The remote host closed the connection.17:24
iceflatlineI use fuppes with freenas and my xbox - works great.17:24
dwatkinsI used to use Fuppes with my Xbox 360 before its hardware died :-/17:25
iceflatlineright. that hasn't been very reliable for me either.17:26
AlanBellnperry: seems to be working and nothing changed on the server end17:29
dwatkinsMartijnVdS: thanks, had a look through my log for mentions from him about it, looks like he has a similar plan to me, to make an Ubuntu server which operates like a Drobo.17:29
nperryAlanBell: Could be that I registered then actually setup my SSL cert :s17:30
AlanBellcould be17:30
nperryAlanBell: Sorry, could resit 'playing'17:30
AlanBellI got confused with certs too, having two users17:31
nperryAre you able to delete 'nperry'?17:31
nperryAnd I'll start again.17:31
AlanBellnperry: um, possibly17:41
brobostigonadvice, are chinese noodles okwith chilli, it is all i have, didnt plan properly, no rice,17:43
AlanBellit all ends up in the same place17:43
Pendulumbrobostigon: anything is okay with chili17:43
brobostigonPendulum: yay, :) thank you,17:43
PendulumI've done it with spaghetti, various types of noodles, potoato17:43
Pendulumheck, a lot of times in the US you don't get it with anything17:44
brobostigonAlanBell: good point, however i had more concern if it works properly.17:44
brobostigonPendulum: wow, ok, interesting,17:44
shaunohollowed loaf is my favourite.  a bowl of chili you can walk with  :D17:44
MartijnVdSsounds like my neighbors are fighting again17:45
AlanBelltop tip: don't buy a sliced loaf to make it with17:45
MartijnVdSAlanBell: ah, the voice of experience17:45
shaunosliced bread is no fun :)17:46
Pendulumwell, if you're a dog in the house, the sliced bread might lead to more fun17:47
shaunoI tend to just avoid it alltogether.  difficult to make a proper manwich with 4mm of bread.17:48
AlanBellnperry: you have been terminated17:48
nperryAlanBell: And I'm back, must of been me messing around17:48
brobostigonshauno: i tried super-thick sliced before, makes an amazing ham and cheese toastie,17:48
AlanBellI just deleted your registered user17:49
nperryI can, as earlier still haven't gone upstairs to dig my mic out.17:51
MartijnVdSnperry: time to do that then :)17:51
Pendulumnperry: you have 2.5 hours in which to get your mic out :P17:51
nperryI've enabled push-to-talk but still registered.17:51
MartijnVdSnperry: push-to-talk means it'll send voice only when you press a button.. it won't mute you17:52
brobostigonquiz is 9pm yes? so i have my plans properly to not be disturbed?17:53
Pendulumbrobostigon: yes17:54
Pendulumwe are just being silly on mumble at the moment17:54
brobostigonlol :)17:54
buzz_a quiz ?17:54
buzz_irc quiz ?17:54
AlanBellquestions and answers will be in #ubuntu-trivia17:57
MartijnVdSbuzz_: https://twitter.com/#!/alanbelltolc/status/5929878282686054517:58
AlanBelland you can install mumble and connect to mumble.libertus.co.uk just for fun17:58
brobostigonit is quite distracting listening to chaps and gals mumble, and not laughing, while cooking,18:00
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: join us!18:00
brobostigonMartijnVdS: once i have eaten, i might not be easy cooking with headset on.18:01
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: you'd be surprised.. :)18:02
brobostigonMartijnVdS: nor eating for that matter.18:02
MartijnVdSUnless we start shouting directions "No no.. more pepper!" in your ear18:02
brobostigonlol, :)18:03
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: it's like shouting numbers when someone is trying to count :)18:03
brobostigonMartijnVdS: yes, definatly, :)18:04
* brobostigon giggles atsome of the noises coming from mumble.18:05
MartijnVdSwhat kind of noises? :)18:05
brobostigonhehe, hmmm, :)18:05
brobostigonlike that, :)18:05
* brobostigon noms in beef chiili, yummy,18:16
brobostigonthe best though, is apparently, chilli a'la popey.18:19
brobostigoni need a google and wikipedia irssi lookup plugin :)18:21
brobostigoncheating, oh, no, definatly not, no.18:23
MartijnVdSget a reddit plugin as well ;)18:23
brobostigonyeah, :)18:24
dutchiejust wondered what that symbol on the power button thing was18:24
dutchiethen i realised it was a crumb on my screen18:24
Pendulumcurry \o/18:32
MartijnVdSPendulum: curry!18:33
Myrttiwhee, a new toy ♥18:38
Myrttialthough it sucks that I can't really use it :-(18:38
Myrttistupid swype doesn't have all the characters I've got on my passwords18:38
brobostigonsothe new toy is swype?18:39
Myrttithe new toy is a device with a rubbish version of swype18:40
brobostigonah, i see.18:41
brobostigonnot hot.18:41
Myrttikinda limits the use of the device if I can't really do anything that requires my password18:42
MartijnVdSMyrtti: add it to the dictionary18:42
MartijnVdSMyrtti: I don't know, I hate swype :)18:42
Myrttihow can you add a character to a dictionary if I don't have the character anywhere on the device?18:42
dutchieMyrtti: can you not use another keyboard to enter the character?18:46
MyrttiI'll just flash the device with a new version of MeeGo anyway18:48
Myrttiperhaps it's changed since then18:48
MartijnVdSMyrtti: copy/paste from a webpage ;)18:48
AlanBellMyrtti: joining in the quiz later?18:51
MyrttiAlanBell: is it on this channel?18:51
MartijnVdSMyrtti: #ubuntu-trivia18:51
AlanBelland with audio via mumble18:52
MartijnVdSMyrtti: (and mumble)18:52
AlanBellthere is a rather acceptable mumble client for android as I understand it18:52
brobostigondoesnt work on my dream though,crashes soon as you hit the speak button.18:53
* brobostigon shakes his fist at dropbox18:55
brobostigon40% ram use, is alittle axcesive,18:56
hamitrononly got 64mb brobostigon?18:59
brobostigonhamitron: most thing works fine, mumble is alittle too heavy,19:00
hamitronnot used it myself19:01
brobostigonhamitron: it seems very rougharound the adges.19:02
MartijnVdSissyl0: what's up?19:37
issyl0After Natty telling me I can't run Unity due to hardware limitations, is it now normal that on the login screen I can't see a "change session" thing, to switch to GNOME Classic as it tells me I have to?  I somehow think not.  :D19:38
MartijnVdSissyl0: you get that after typing/selecting your username19:38
MartijnVdSthen it pops up the "Which session/keyboard layout/language" bar19:38
issyl0That would explain it.19:38
shaunoI still can't get this via to boot :(19:46
shaunothis is funky so far.  I can tell brobostigon & martin.  everyone else just sounds the same19:52
brobostigonshauno: i have a distinctive voice, :)19:53
MartijnVdSand I'm Dutch :)19:53
shaunoheh.  well, yes, there is that19:54
brobostigoni am only english,19:55
exobuzzi was wondering why i couldnt get on irc. i had like 2 xchats already running, but no systray or so on unity. i dunno im sure its me but back to classic again heh19:55
MartijnVdSjust use irssi ;)19:55
shaunomostly just surprised how much difference 10 years outside the UK makes.  you all(*) just sound like generic southerners :p19:55
exobuzzMartijnVdS, are you also a mac user ? :)19:56
MartijnVdSexobuzz: No.19:56
brobostigonshauno: i spent ten years as a teenager in germany.19:56
exobuzzMartijnVdS, it would suit you well. you can say things like "get a mac" and not understand the concept of choice ;-)19:56
MartijnVdSexobuzz: Choice? Choice? :)19:57
issyl0Heh.  You won't be able to tell I spent four years in France, if and when I voice chat - unless there's any French going on.  :P19:57
exobuzzor the classic "how do i do this on mysql" "get postgresql" - always like that one on forums. real helpful :)19:57
shaunoI'm a mac user .. by choice :p19:57
exobuzzand as for ruby devs. worst ever for this sort of thing ;-)19:57
exobuzzshauno, i own 3 macs. but dont tell anyone20:00
shaunoooh ooh ooh I have isolinux!20:01
MartijnVdSissyl0: We'll be able to tell, don't worry :)20:01
issyl0Hmmm, OK.20:01
shauno*cough*ing jumper select.  long time since I used anything IDE :)20:01
exobuzzI was thinking to mod my ppc mac mini http://www.bit-tech.net/news/modding/2005/06/10/itoilet_mod/120:01
MartijnVdSshauno: ooh jumper select.. back in the day before cable select :)20:01
shaunothat's the one :p20:01
MartijnVdSThose were the days 8-)20:02
issyl0Everyone sounds a bit different through a mic though.20:02
shaunostill not booting, but it made a noble effort atleast20:02
shaunonow stuck at "Loading bootlogo".  not sure it'll get past that, since I only appear to have EGA20:03
mattiMy notebook smells like Peppermint Latte from Starbucks ;]20:03
shaunotop right on mac20:03
shaunopopey: ^20:03
MartijnVdSshauno: #ubuntu-trivia ;)20:04
shaunoI will.  having enough fun multitasking with this zombie machine20:04
shaunoso I need to find a bootcd that doesn't try to load a logo :/20:06
* shauno eyes over a 6.06 CD20:08
shaunopopey: iirc you have a freedom hating phone?  the headset for that should work as mic+headphones (+remote!) in your mbp, if you'd rather avoid having the mic sat on the desk20:08
popeyah, good point20:09
popeyi have a decent mic though20:09
shaunookay, 6.06 really doesn't boot.  the beeper just goes nuts20:12
MartijnVdSshauno: Stone-age Ubuntu? :)20:12
shaunoI got it on disk, so figured it'd be worth a shot20:13
MartijnVdSon bare hardware, or in a vm?20:13
ali12341does any idea what this means: stop: Rejected send message, 1 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.261" (uid=1000 pid=26882 comm="stop) interface="com.ubuntu.Upstart0_6.Job" member="Stop" error name="(unset)" requested_reply=0 destination="com.ubuntu.Upstart" (uid=0 pid=1 comm="/sbin/init"))20:14
MartijnVdSI think I might have some warty CDs somewhere in a box20:14
shaunohardware.  a via 800  :/20:14
MartijnVdSali12341: it's a dbus permission error..20:14
shaunoif I can't figure this out, I'm gonna stick potato on it and upgrade in-band.20:25
shaunoeverything will fall to potato :D20:25
MartijnVdSshauno: bo.20:26
MartijnVdSshauno: or hamm20:26
shaunoonly used potato and woody :/20:29
shaunothen I stopped buying debian because 14 CDs was getting silly :)20:29
shaunotempted to try installing to the CF with vmware, but it's on the underside of the motherboard :(20:31
MartijnVdSshauno: I just used netinstall20:31
shaunohm.  with no bootable media at all?20:32
shaunono pci slots so I can't feed it an etherpro.  just these lil realtek fakes :/20:33
MartijnVdSno with a mini-cd20:33
MartijnVdSor with 2-3 floppies20:33
shaunothat's it .. it's not booting from CDs.  they all hang when they try to give me a splash @ isolinux20:34
MartijnVdSfloppies \o/20:35
shaunono headers for a drive :p  (it's a 3.5" pc-104 board)20:36
ali12341why VMWARE?20:37
shaunobecause I have it, it's installed, and it doesn't mind doing raw disk access20:37
ali12341remove CF card, put in reader, dd grub image...20:37
ali12341why do you need vmware for this?20:37
shaunobecause if I'm going to go to all the effort of retrieving the card, I may as well just stick an OS on it20:38
shaunohaving everything hanging out the machine is rather unwieldy20:38
ali12341ok i see20:38
AlanBellquiz starting in 20 minutes or so20:39
ali12341well the only other way i can see is to jtag it, if it has mini pci or something20:39
shaunoit's an odd shaped box.  almost exactly the same depth as my dvdrom, 19" 1U.  so everything's hanging on the outside while I install because the drive won't actually fit inside20:39
shaunoit has a couple of hirose connectors, and the standard pc-104 thing on the side (not actually sure what that exposes)20:40
ali12341did you reflash to oem bios?20:42
ali12341odd that it doesn't support cdrom then20:43
ali12341wait how did you plug in a cdrom drive anyway?20:43
shaunoit's trying the cdrom.  I get the isolinux version header, then "loading bootlogo".  then nothing20:43
shaunopull the dvdrom from an old machine, the ide cable with it so I've got a second header on the same cable20:44
ali12341why can't you plug an ide hard drive instead?20:44
shaunothere's 1 hdd and 1 cdrom atm20:44
shaunotrying to install from the cdrom to the hdd20:44
ali12341remove cdrom, add second hdd20:44
shaunothere's not space for a second hdd to live20:45
ali12341you remove it after installing20:45
shaunostill not sure how that helps me get an OS on it :)20:45
MartijnVdSshauno: put disk in other machine, put OS on disk, replace disk in original machine20:46
ali12341you put a distro on any random harddrive, boot it, then use deboostrap to install on the internal hd20:46
shaunomy other machine's a laptop20:46
ali12341you don't have a usb dock?20:46
MartijnVdSshauno: wrong bumper sticker ;)20:46
shaunoyarrr.  found a model number on the underside.  google time20:51
MartijnVdSwilly1977: speak to us! :)20:51
MartijnVdSooh cfm, old site :)20:52
willy1977I heard suprengr20:53
AlanBellok, about to get quizical in #ubuntu-trivia20:59
shaunothis is pretty awesome with text-to-speach21:00
=== michael is now known as Guest70762
MyrttiI didn't quite remember that Cathedral City is this salty21:06
Myrttino wonder people drink buckets of tea21:06
peejay1977Hey all, anyone know of a fix for the CD boot issue for Ubuntu 11.04 Beta 2? I get a boot error straight after the initial menu but cant seem to find much on Google21:24
Azelphurhaha, my new sky internet is down and I just called tech support, the guy asked me about my setup and was in awe XD22:07
Azelphur"What OS do you run" "Linux" "Woaa..."22:07
Azelphur"I can run any OS you need though I have virtual machines"22:08
exobuzzhmm. had a dkms driver keep crashing on natty. switching to gcc-4.4 from 4.5 fixed it22:47
exobuzzi reckon there are going to be a lot of gcc 4.5 issues if ive already found one22:47
exobuzzdriver was a vendor rt2870sta wireless driver.22:49
exobuzzactually it could be just related to mixing compiler for kernel/modules which you're not supposed to do . hmm. i guess i should try and build the kernel on 4.5 and see22:52
shaunoso back to this silly machine.  can't find my cardreader :o)22:58
nperryAzelphur: I spoke to some tech support a couple of weeks ago..23:12
Azelphurnperry: yea? :P23:12
nperryThey asked me to install windows23:12
Azelphurtbh that's what I was expecting, that's why I have vm's.23:13
Azelphurbut the guy was very nice and didn't try any of the "You're using linux /shun" stuff23:13
nperryI've had BT fobb me off with "your internet doesn't work because you are using linux"23:13
Azelphurhe just seemed genuinely interested in how one computer could run 2 operating systems at the same time :D23:13
nperryWell, thats what I thought he said anyway...23:14
Azelphur"That must take a lot of resources, what do you have like 4GB RAM?" "haha 4GB, I have 12" "12 OMG!!! HOW DOES YOUR MOTHERBOARD EVEN TAKE THAT MUCH" "The motherboard supports up to 24" "OMG THATS INSANE"23:14
nperryHmmm, was the person english?23:15
nperryAs i've worked in a couple of tech support places and they are all geeks...23:15
Azelphuryea he sounded pretty cool, he was eager to ask about my setup :)23:16
nperryShould of told him to come on irc23:16
AzelphurI nearly did but didn't wanna be weird lol23:16
nperry"hey come to this chat room"23:16
Azelphurexactly xD23:16
nperryYeah, would sound pretty odd.23:17
hamitronshould the idea of an online golf game, to be to play golf against others?23:20
awilkinsPangYa!   ?23:20
hamitronmaybe I am missing something, with all the people wanting to play alone23:20
SMGhello, can some one help me with this, when ever i try to build binutil I get this "http://paste.ubuntu.com/594986/", how would i solve it?23:36
ali12341hamitron: online golf game?23:47
ali12341online version of mario golf would be awesome23:48
hamitronI play shot online sometimes23:48
ali12341i'm sure aimbots would ruin it though23:48
hamitronit uses nProtect :(23:49
ali12341does it work on linux?23:50
ali12341i kind of wish that wii wasn't backwards compatible because the price of the good gamecube games has gone up23:53
hamitronthis is the most fun golf game I played23:57
hamitronwish it ran on wine :/23:57

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