[00:05] Pendulum: yup I think so, how are you? [00:05] tired [00:05] Aww [00:06] Wish you were here [00:08] ;] [00:11] * AlanBell is perhaps a tiny bit pissed [00:16] Hmm, I'm having a fun technical conundrum with my new sky connection [00:17] I have a dynamic DNS which points to my external IP, all good [00:17] right [00:17] And I use my router which just connects via their router with DHCP [00:17] is it an amusing one? :> [00:17] so my real router's wan address is 192.168.0.2, but my external address is obviously not xD [00:17] I need nat reflection for the external IP to work :x [00:17] hahaha [00:18] are you double NAT'ing 0o [00:18] wonder how I could get dd-wrt to nat reflect the dynamic IP that it knows nothing about lol [00:18] daftykins: no, and my port forwarding setup works. [00:18] (so I can access my stuff externally, but I can't access it internally because no NAT reflection :D) [00:18] tracert it every 2 mins? [00:19] wat o.O [00:19] traceroute [00:19] you could just grep info from an IP whois service then code your own dyndns submitter? :D [00:19] s/whois/check/ [00:20] you need to configure your router to use a ppp half bridge [00:20] * hamitron uses half bridge [00:20] also don't access your local services through nat, go directly to the lan with avahi [00:20] AlanBell: possibly more than a tiny bit [00:21] ali12341: but I want there to be one address I can access the services internally or externally [00:21] no [00:21] just no [00:21] ...why not? [00:21] use a hostname instead [00:21] I do that with iptables on my router [00:21] ali12341: I do use a hostname [00:22] home.azelphur.com points at my home address :p [00:22] also it sounds a lot like you have double nat [00:22] and that's what I use to access stuff [00:22] I don't have a double nat, the sky router is configured to DMZ the DD-WRT router [00:22] and my port forwards work. [00:22] that's double nat [00:22] ok then :P [00:23] not sure how much I can do to fix that from a sky router [00:23] configure it for half bridge [00:23] it sucks but it's better than what you have [00:23] if it does half-bridge? [00:23] if it doesn't do half bridge then just hack it [00:24] you could use DNAT on the router too [00:24] so which router does your PC get DHCP from? [00:25] ali12341: dd-wrt [00:25] and dd-wrt is default gateway? [00:26] overheating_comp<->dd-wrt<->sky_crap<->WWW? [00:26] you have a few options actually [00:27] you can dmz dd-wrt then put the servers behind it, then connect PCs to sky router [00:27] echo home.azelphur.com 192.168.0.2 >> /etc/hosts [00:27] then it should work [00:27] I'd make the dmz in front of the dd-wrt [00:28] you can also do that in the DNS settings on dd-wrt [00:28] if you keep the PCs behind it and it runs DNS [00:28] half bridge is going to be the simplest though [00:29] even better just get the router firmware and reverse the password algorithm [00:29] or you could set the dd-wrt to mangle tcp/ip packets \o/ [00:30] I like iptables, and not messing with local dns :) [00:33] ali12341: what is wrong with half bridging? [00:33] it's a nasty hack [00:33] NAT's a hack too :> [00:34] yeah [00:34] half bridging isn't as bad as a double nat [00:34] lol i was right about double NAT then, nasty [00:35] I have half bridging... then double nat behind that :/ [00:35] D: [00:35] just cuz I can [00:35] you guys are just masochistic [00:35] ;/ [00:35] i remember being on Quakenet, some guy coming on asking about setting it up [00:36] me saying he'd have to use one subnet on the first device, and another on the second [00:36] e.g. 192.168.0.x and 192.168.1.x [00:36] and he steadfastly refused to accept that as truth, hurled 'verbal' abuse and then left [00:36] :> [00:36] good times [00:36] i don't get it [00:37] more of a personal story thing really [00:37] no actual joke [00:37] what happens if you have 4 network cards, each on a seperate 192.168.1.0/24 network? [00:37] just amazed at the stubborness of some to accept fact at times [00:38] well the level below still needs to be on a different subnet so it knows where to route packets [00:38] maybe you just didn't understand the problem [00:38] if so i had others in agreeance with me, equally confused [00:38] :) [00:38] Azelphur: what router is it? d-link? [00:38] wow i actually countered your attitude politely \o/ [00:38] self high-five [00:40] ali12341: I can't etc/hosts an android phone and a bunch of PCs XD [00:40] ali12341: it's the stock sky one, not sure what [00:41] black, curved front? [00:41] yup [00:41] Azelphur: why you need to host loads of stuff? [00:41] netgear DG834G rebranded as a DG934G [00:41] if it's the one my house had from tenants getting sky :o [00:41] hamitron: I have an XMPP server I use for all my chat, so what ever device I'm on, where ever I am, it needs to just work :D [00:42] why not put the XMPP server in front of the dd-wrt? [00:42] uhh, because then I'd have my entire PC in front of the dd-wrt [00:42] and then dd-wrt would be pointless [00:43] ah [00:43] why are you even running a second router D: [00:43] daftykins: because sky T&C's :P [00:43] and DD-WRT doesn't suck [00:43] install another network card in your PC? [00:44] getting crazy now people xD [00:44] I just need nat reflection to work [00:44] then everything works fine [00:44] then you can be be in front and behind at same time ;) [00:44] nat reflection you seek is up to the sky router [00:44] ^ [00:44] I see [00:45] can you not use one of those sites to find the real user+pass on the router [00:45] and then transplant a normal ADSL router / mod that one to official netgear firmware? [00:45] daftykins: I can, but I was kinda hoping to stick to the sky router just for the lulz [00:45] here is the instructions for the newest router they ship: http://pathogenrush.blogspot.com/search/label/DSL2640S [00:45] :> [00:45] yea [00:45] if you want to keep the sky router, then obtain a root login and reconfigure it's firewall [00:45] I guess I'll get a modem and do that *shrug* [00:46] i've still got one of the DG934G's at my house [00:46] i was going to pinch it and mod it into a normal DG834G for the lulz [00:46] anyone recommend a nice stand alone modem [00:46] they don't ship those any more [00:46] to go into the wan port on my router :D [00:46] yes, i bought a draytek one a bit ago [00:46] draytek vigor 220 USB or something [00:47] it was about £40 from dabs [00:47] safecom asr8000 [00:47] why do you need a modem? [00:47] ;) [00:47] reflash the sky router to be a modem [00:47] i've got it on a client's smoothwall PC [00:47] [00:47] if your're not going to use it [00:47] mod it to the stock netgear and you can make it a modem only using a hidden page [00:47] i bet it has half bridge anyway [00:47] ali12341: because I want to keep the sky router so that when there's an issue with the connection sky can't say fuck you go away :D [00:48] * hamitron would just use the sky router in default setup, then use magic on the dd-wrt [00:48] ali12341: so I don't want to root/low level mess with the sky router so that I can just plug it in when there's a problem and say look the lines broken [00:49] your easiest way is to just change the DNS in dd-wrt [00:49] to point to dd-wrt instead of the sky router [00:49] I need a modem so that my cable router can do ADSL :) [00:49] and it needs to be ADSL2+ [00:49] point to his comp you mean ali12341 [00:49] no [00:49] I'm starting to not like this sky router anyway [00:49] his comp is hosting the service.... [00:50] Every time I get a disconnect for rate adaption, it says all web pages are 404 [00:50] so the router is clearly doing something it shouldn't with my web traffic [00:50] Azelphur: yeah that is pretty typical these days in crap ISp routers [00:50] what's the purpose? [00:50] to stop people ringing up tech support [00:50] same as with everything [00:51] haha [00:52] so that makes me want to get rid of their router rather rapidly [00:52] ADSL2+ Modem it is :D [00:53] you could go with a proper isp? ;) [00:54] hamitron: what's ISP have to do with my internal hardware setup? [00:54] would let you use a normal router [00:54] well you could get an ISP that tells you the password [00:54] hamitron: I can use a normal router :D [00:54] and I can get the password [00:54] and that's what I plan to do [00:54] I just need an ADSL2+ modem to connect to it, suggestions? :D [00:54] or you could listen to me and just add a DNS entry for your hostname [00:55] ali12341: how/where? [00:55] in dd-wrt, /etc/hosts [00:55] ohhh [00:55] that works :) [00:56] then any requests for home.azelphur.com go to 192.168.0.2 and you can configure dd-wrt to handle them however you want [00:56] http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/DNSMasq_-_DNS_for_your_local_network_-_HOWTO [00:56] Pendulum: that is just about possible, yet [00:56] yes [00:58] Azelphur: looks like you need to do a few things, first is to determine if dd-wrt already runs a dns server [00:59] confusing \o/ [00:59] ali12341: I kinda wanna be rid of the router because of the weird HTTP Proxy thing. [01:00] you can probably kill that with firewall [01:00] it will be done by DNS mangling [01:00] would be easier to just get an ADSL2+ modem and remove the sky router from the equation [01:01] so tell dd-wrt to skip over the DNS it gets from DHCP (which point to the sky router) and go direct to ISP DNS [01:01] sure if you like spending money [01:01] I'm cool with spending money :D [01:01] hehe [01:01] so recommendations on an ADSL2+ Modem? [01:02] i dunno i would never use a modem [01:02] something without all the bells and whistles :p [01:02] modems are identical to routers but with only 1 ethernet port on them [01:02] they run almost identical firmware [01:03] I see [01:03] my usual setup is to have a dumb modem and my router dials PPPoE [01:03] is that sane? [01:03] no [01:03] :( [01:04] why have two boxes when you can have one? [01:04] * popey tickles AlanBell [01:04] * AlanBell tickles popey [01:04] ali12341: the DD-WRT router with an ethernet port can't connect to ADSL? [01:04] zzzzzzzzzzzzzz [01:04] and finds typing challenging [01:04] ali12341: why have 1 when you can have 2? [01:04] ;) [01:04] ditto [01:05] Azelphur: so get a new router then [01:05] the keys are not quite where I left them [01:05] bed [01:05] nn [01:05] nn popey [01:05] is there a dd-wrt with dsl? [01:05] ali12341: I don't want to replace my £120 Linksys WRT610N running DD-WRT [01:05] also ^ [01:05] never have I found tab complete on the word popey useful before [01:05] Azelphur: "router dials PPPoE" is same as half bridge btw [01:05] cool :D [01:05] it's fairly rubbish [01:06] whys it rubbish? [01:06] because you have two routers that can mess up instead of one [01:07] another way to look at it, each router has less "load" on it [01:07] ali12341: if it's a Router with an ADSL modem built in, isn't it 2 devices in one case anyway? [01:07] ;/ [01:07] Azelphur: no [01:07] routers are 1 chip [01:07] the reason I bought a cable router was so that when I switch connection type, what ever connection I switch to it should work fine on the ethernet port [01:07] so a connection switch = swap out the modem [01:08] and at the same time I keep a high powered modem which is capable of handling the heavy load at my house [01:08] high powered router* [01:08] A shitty £20 netgear works fine if you've got 1-2 people on it [01:08] a DSL router can use ethernet as WAN too if it runs dd-wrt [01:08] but when you stick 10 people on a £20 netgear you have a problem [01:08] fun [01:09] router troubles from multiple users are caused by nat conntracking [01:09] no, they are caused by load :p [01:09] which won't be a problem for half bridge, cos the modem won't see the nat [01:09] no, really [01:10] for a modem there is no difference between 1 http download saturating the pipe and lots of connections doing same [01:10] because everything is encapsulated in ppp packets before it hits the modem [01:10] night night all [01:10] ali12341: and now you understand why my setup is the way it is :D [01:10] one high powered router to take the load [01:10] and a modem. [01:11] a modem which does nothing... [01:11] exactly [01:11] apart from provide the ADSL bridge [01:11] and could just as easily be in the router [01:11] /43 [01:11] nah, didn't mean that [01:12] * AlanBell is too drunk to operate IRC [01:12] ali12341: yea, but there arn't many decent ADSL routers, and as I said I wanted the portability to cable/wimax when it comes available in my area [01:13] wrt610 isn't even that powerful, it's bcm4718 [01:13] * hamitron recommends a proper comp as a router [01:14] heh, you can over clock it [01:14] hamitron: I did that for a while but opted for something lower power [01:14] atom? [01:14] it's pretty good for my house, it stays stable all the time :D [01:15] so yea now we've come to the conclusion my setup is somewhat sane xD [01:15] decent ADSL2+ Modems for the job? [01:16] i disagree but w/e [01:16] ali12341: how would you do it? [01:16] and i still think you should just fix it all with DNS [01:17] i would get the cheapest dsl router on ebay that can run openwrt [01:17] i wouldn't expect to pay more than £1 [01:18] but my internet can't go faster than 10mbit [01:18] if i were you i would fix it in DNS with what i already had [01:19] ali12341: I could fix it up yea but I just don't like the sky router any more, the fact that they are messing with my web traffic makes me wonder what else they are messing with so I'd prefer to be on legit equipment :P [01:19] they violated my trust >:( [01:21] it's a simple DNS trick they use [01:21] if internet connection is down all hostnames resolve to the sky router [01:21] I get that :) [01:22] so just a few DNS tweaks and something to set your dynamic dns service, jobs a good one? [01:22] pretty much [01:22] i would also firewall off their router incase there are backdoors or something [01:22] i'd guess the dd-wrt already is [01:22] ali12341: or I could just get an ADSL2+ modem and not worry about it because it'd be gone :D [01:23] Azelphur: apart from teh cost, you'd have to wait [01:23] although if they want to mess with your traffic they will do it in their datacentre, not in the router [01:23] not worth it :) [01:23] if you don't trust their router how can you trust any part of their service? [01:23] *shrug* [01:29] i just think if you buy a modem you'll end up with a different but equally annoying set of problems [01:30] better the devil you know [01:31] about the dns pointing to the router ali12341..... [01:31] the internal ip of the router? [01:31] how about it? [01:31] yes [01:32] so how do you then move the traffic from the router to a comp on the internal network? [01:32] the nat does it [01:32] because you can turn on reflection [01:32] you don't point it to the internal ip [01:32] you point it to the external ip [01:33] ah, reflection is an option in linux? [01:33] which is also internal on the next level of nat [01:34] assume it is enabled similar to packet forwarding? [01:34] no [01:34] it's just about how you set up the firewall rules [01:35] oh, so an arguement to iptables? [01:35] no [01:35] it's not an option [01:35] it's a side effect of the whole way your firewall is configured [01:36] sleeps for me [01:36] later all o/ [01:36] ok [01:36] mine doesn't [01:36] :/ [01:38] http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/rdr.html [01:38] also, split-horizon dns [01:40] I've used Split-Horizon and Seperate network [01:40] i am assuming that dd-wrt supports reflection by default and that it worked before with the old modem [01:43] so reflection is RDR-TO and NAT-TO Combination? [01:43] if you;re using pf [01:44] sounds hard to config [01:44] linux uses netfilter [01:45] so how would RDR-TO and NAT-TO Combination be done? [01:46] or anything with redirecting traffic [01:46] on iptables you would do something like this: http://www.zeroshell.net/eng/forum/viewtopic.php?p=655&sid=1aa52f098f1a0aeccd712827ee7739d9#655 [01:47] prerouting vs postrouting [01:51] I'll have to give it another go sometime [01:51] I tried this about 7 years ago and never got it working [01:51] so just changed the dns [01:51] :) [01:51] didn't have the time to play [01:51] changing the dns is prefered [01:51] yeh [01:52] but I wanted to learn iptables [01:52] stuffing all LAN packets through a cheap router won't end well [01:52] ;) [01:52] well [01:52] it will be a dell server [01:53] I don't even rate my wrt54GL tbh [01:53] I switched to it from a proper comp with 4 NIC, and the comp was loads better [01:53] in what way? [01:53] I find when i have friends round, can get lag spikes [01:54] unless i am careful with the simultanious connections [01:55] but suppose I maybe expect too much [01:55] :) [01:55] i've never had problems [01:55] but for sure the 2.53ghz celeron beat the 200mhz router [01:56] it handles 12 users ok if I stop the torrent server [01:57] torrents are heavy on the router [01:57] yeh [01:57] torrents + 12 gamers = death [01:57] 12 users will just be plain heavy on the bandwidth but the router should have no problems [01:58] unless I have a full blown comp on the job [01:58] ali12341: it gets upto 4000 connections [01:58] :/ [01:59] ali12341: I had a modem before [01:59] and I was 100% fine with it [01:59] but when I switched to sky my dad took the modem xD [01:59] so buying a new modem restores me to my old 100% working setup [02:00] as it happens, the VIA C3 850mhz cpu comp was my router for a while too :) [02:00] it was better than the wrt54gl [02:01] with torrents, you need ram, not cpu [02:01] because it opens so many connections [02:01] well, suppose they had 256mb ram [02:01] it fills the conntrack tables up [02:01] ali12341: yea, my router has shitloads of ram :D [02:01] better than the router [02:01] you can also tweak the kernel settings [02:01] It's a high spec router, we have multiple P2P users in the house :D [02:01] wrt54gl has 32mb? [02:02] some routers are configured to remember connections for 2 days after they close [02:02] that's completely unnecessary [02:02] indeed XD [02:02] so back to my original idea does anyone know a nice ADSL2+ Modem? :D [02:02] Azelphur: when's the last time you had a problem where the real answer wasn't just "get your own place" :p [02:03] I know it will work how I want because it worked how I want for the past 3 odd years with my old ISP XD [02:03] shauno: a long time :-( [02:03] ali12341: is 3600 seconds too long for tcp? [02:03] if the tables are filling up then probably [02:04] they aren't now tbh, but they have in the past [02:05] wrt54gl has only 16mb? [02:05] says so [02:06] max connections is 4096 anyway [02:10] 23 days since the last long power cut [02:11] should be getting another sometime soon ;/ [02:11] UPS is on its last legs too [02:43] nn all o/ [02:58] hi [02:58] what is unity in 11.04 ? [02:58] is it a desktop ? [04:58] Met a couple of Linux users at work today. [04:58] That made me happy. [05:37] * ball wanders off in search of a cake. [06:28] cake \o/ [06:48] cake = lie :( [06:59] noooo [07:00] heh, so I said that and my modem dropped. spooky [07:01] the internet is trying to tell you something [07:01] glados is coming :/ [07:01] shauno: http://www.aperturescience.com/glados@home/ [07:02] trying to figure out how to stuff input into a running screen session. it's fighting back :( [07:04] shauno: screen -r ? [07:04] trying to do so from another script, so attaching it doesn't work [07:05] have the thing inside screen listen on a named pipe, write to that [07:05] mknod \o [07:05] \o/ [07:05] tried that (mkfifo :p). java appears to fail entirely on it [07:06] Well THERE's your problem :P [07:06] I know :/ [07:06] minecrack strikes again [07:07] maybe tmux can do it? [07:38] * ball falls overf [07:57] well, getting somewhere finally. ugly, ugly bash script but should stop me doing the same things over 'n over [07:59] you know you're making a mess when a script starts with: while getopts ":rsSpfbmaoOh" ... [08:01] hi [08:01] is gnome3 available in 11.04 ? [08:19] kaushal: Try entering that exact question in google, then hit "I'm feeling lucky" [08:19]