| snap-l | They are, but the amount of whining is intolerable | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| greg-g | I don't believe it is whining | 00:01 |
| greg-g | I think it is real concerns when a company requires copyright *transfer* (not just a non-exclusive license) for your work so that they could produce a proprietary version. The rhetoric from the companies is pathetic compared to the real concerns of the volunteer developers'. | 00:02 |
| snap-l | Then don't contribute | 00:03 |
| greg-g | "trust us" is not an answer | 00:03 |
| greg-g | snap-l: exactly, and that is exactly what the companies are saying to the community | 00:03 |
| snap-l | somewhere in there is a compromise. | 00:03 |
| greg-g | that is why we have LibreOffice | 00:03 |
| greg-g | when the companies are saying, implicitly, "don't contribute here" but then on the other hand say "yay, we're a community/open-source project! We're cool!" that is a *tad* disingenuous. | 00:04 |
| snap-l | its' funny, but the more you tell people they're not welcome, the more they don't come around anymore | 00:06 |
| snap-l | and the more they tell their friends | 00:06 |
| snap-l | it's weird how that works | 00:06 |
| greg-g | :) true, so, guess what will happen to Unity? | 00:06 |
| greg-g | that's more of a statement/command than a question, I guess. | 00:07 |
| snap-l | Well, if it turns out that Haromony, Unity, and Community are just bullshit buzzwords, then we'll have some soul searching to do | 00:08 |
| snap-l | on whether we want to be a part of any of the above. | 00:08 |
| greg-g | interesting way to group/phrase that. | 00:08 |
| * greg-g would love to take the time to write a blog post about this :/ | 00:09 | |
| snap-l | I'm not close enough to it to make anything intelligent | 00:09 |
| snap-l | all I see are the results | 00:09 |
| jjesse | doesn't harmony fly in the face of everything JOno wrote in his book? | 00:10 |
| snap-l | jjesse: It's starting to make me think that the hardcopy is going up on Amazon soon | 00:11 |
| jjesse | i think i got a free soft copy someplace | 00:11 |
| snap-l | And there it goes. | 00:14 |
| greg-g | jjesse: I don't know if he even addresses copyright assignment/licensing agreements | 00:16 |
| snap-l | It mostly talks about Creative Commons | 00:19 |
| snap-l | Earlier I went into detail about why openness and transparency are important in volunteer | 00:20 |
| snap-l | communities. Dictatorial communities are something of an antithesis to this approach, | 00:20 |
| snap-l | and their leaders always face the risk of not being representative of the views of the wider | 00:20 |
| snap-l | community. | 00:20 |
| snap-l | -- Jono Bacon | 00:20 |
| greg-g | yeah, kind of related but not directly | 00:23 |
| snap-l | Yeah, sort of | 00:24 |
| snap-l | Have to say, I'm very disappointed with how I've perceived Canonical operating this cycle | 00:29 |
| * greg-g nods | 00:31 | |
| snap-l | Seriously, if they prove Bradley Kuhn right, I'll be _pissed off_ | 00:32 |
| greg-g | lol | 00:37 |
| jjesse | who is bradley kuhn? | 01:07 |
| snap-l | http://identi.ca/bkuhn | 01:23 |
| snap-l | http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1529.html | 01:26 |
| rick_h_ | howdy, back to civilization (well computer) | 01:55 |
| rick_h_ | did I miss anything while I was away? | 01:56 |
| greg-g | welcome back, rick_h_ | 01:56 |
| greg-g | not a ton, just the implosion of the ubuntu community | 01:56 |
| rick_h_ | oh yea? cool | 01:57 |
| greg-g | :) | 01:57 |
| rick_h_ | Blazeix: crap, have things a bit prettier on arch, but even with the .38 kernel no dual monitor setup for me :( | 02:27 |
| rick_h_ | Blazeix: what's the equiv of a -dev package for arch? | 02:44 |
| greg-g | oh man, first my buddy Pete from Minneapolis, now you. That Arch stuff :/ | 02:47 |
| greg-g | ;) | 02:47 |
| rick_h_ | yea, I'm going to get some nixternal love later I'm sure | 02:48 |
| nixternal | huh | 02:51 |
| nixternal | greg-g: don't worry about it, it won't take him long to get tired of arch | 02:51 |
| nixternal | after using arch for a bit, i came to the realization that arch is for people who are scared of gentoo and deathly afriad of slackware or lfs | 02:52 |
| greg-g | hah | 02:53 |
| slestak | i never did get grub right. had to force windows bootloader to take over again | 02:53 |
| nixternal | rick_h_ will like it up until they do a python upgrade, then he will be in here flipping out | 02:53 |
| greg-g | slestak: suck :/ | 02:53 |
| greg-g | nixternal: hahaha | 02:53 |
| slestak | been sould searching for hours. ready to try sth different | 02:53 |
| rick_h_ | nixternal: hey, that's me | 02:54 |
| nixternal | it was neat how arch dismantled themselves and made their distro useless for a week last year when they decided it was time to upgrade to python3. they broke everything with a single upload | 02:54 |
| rick_h_ | lfs, oh hell no | 02:54 |
| rick_h_ | just left ubuntu | 02:54 |
| nixternal | lfs was fun the first time | 02:54 |
| slestak | opensuse has some fans in my lug | 02:54 |
| nixternal | that's because of all the resources opensuse hogs, need all those fans to try and cool it down :p | 02:55 |
| rick_h_ | if my system's going to break might as well have some fun | 02:55 |
| rick_h_ | I've been saying I'm not canonical/ubuntu's target user anyway | 02:56 |
| greg-g | when "fun" == "time spent figuring things out instead of getting work done" I'm kind of not on board :P | 02:56 |
| rick_h_ | might as well try some distro where I am the target user | 02:56 |
| nixternal | greg-g: when did the community implode? did I miss something? granted I have been doing 'Mark all as read' in Google Reader lately :) | 02:56 |
| greg-g | nixternal: I was exaggerating based on snap-l and I's discussion of the Harmony project | 02:57 |
| nixternal | ahh | 02:57 |
| rick_h_ | what is this? I missed it I guess | 02:58 |
| Blazeix | hell yes arch is for people who are scared of gentoo, lfs, and slackware. | 03:14 |
| Blazeix | I think that could be said of every distro | 03:14 |
| Blazeix | rick_h_: what is -dev in ubuntu, is it bleeding edge? | 03:17 |
| greg-g | Blazeix: packages that provide the needed bits to build things that depend on them. Like, if you software needs foo to compile/build, you need to foo-dev installed. But you don't need it installed if you are just running the already compiled/built thing. | 03:19 |
| Blazeix | rick_h_: I haven't ever needed to install extra packages to do development like that. | 03:27 |
| Blazeix | though the majority of the compiling I do is handled via AUR | 03:27 |
| Blazeix | Is the dual monitor issue a known driver bug? It's rare to have dual monitors not work under any distro nowadays. | 03:28 |
| snap-l | Man, could Project Harmony have picked a worse name | 04:29 |
| snap-l | considering there's a group to prevent child abuse with the same moniker. | 04:30 |
| snap-l | And Harmony is the name of the Apache Java project | 04:30 |
| snap-l | which is what I was initially thinking folks were discussing | 04:30 |
| Blazeix | yeah, same sort of thing for Unity. I use Microsoft's Unity at work, and a while back I was testing out the game framework Unity. | 04:41 |
| snap-l | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pymAoh7KH64&NR=1 | 05:02 |
| Blazeix | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-April/032988.html | 05:08 |
| Blazeix | snap-l: bullet point 6 ^ | 05:08 |
| snap-l | Blazeix: Yeah, I saw that. :) | 05:09 |
| Blazeix | one of my friends wants to buy a book so he can begin learning about databases. Any recommendations? | 05:31 |
| Blazeix | He's a C developer, absoutely zero SQL experience | 05:31 |
| Blazeix | thinking about just pointing him toward an O'Reilly book | 05:31 |
| snap-l | Blazeix: What does e want to learn re: databases? | 05:35 |
| Blazeix | basic use in an application | 05:36 |
| snap-l | What language? | 05:36 |
| Blazeix | nothing to deep. He's trying to learn django and his lack of db experience is holding him back | 05:36 |
| snap-l | Well, shit.. just learn Django | 05:36 |
| snap-l | doesn't it have the DB stuff bolted on? | 05:37 |
| snap-l | All he'd need to know right now is stuff goes in, stuff goes out | 05:37 |
| snap-l | Or are you looking for things like creating users / grants, and the like? | 05:38 |
| Blazeix | I don't think he's happy with treating it as a black box | 05:38 |
| Blazeix | yeah, user permissions, creating tables, intelligent table design | 05:38 |
| Blazeix | actually, wikibooks might have something... | 05:39 |
| snap-l | I think he's asking for the impossible. :) | 05:39 |
| snap-l | wThe Beginning MySQL book from Apress is nice | 05:40 |
| snap-l | even has some code samples | 05:40 |
| snap-l | http://www.apress.com/9781590595350 | 05:42 |
| Blazeix | ok, thanks. I just pointed him to wikibook's SQL lessons | 05:42 |
| Blazeix | Hopefully then he can learn more, and figure out exactly what he wants :) | 05:42 |
| Blazeix | ooh, that looks nice. Right now he's just using sqlite, though he has a postgres install on his server. | 05:43 |
| snap-l | http://books.slashdot.org/story/04/11/17/1827201/The-Definitive-Guide-to-MySQL-2nd-Ed | 05:44 |
| Blazeix | this might be good too http://www.apress.com/9781590594780 | 05:44 |
| Blazeix | oh awesome slashdot review | 05:45 |
| snap-l | Yeah, that's also a good book | 05:45 |
| Blazeix | thanks, I sent the links over his way | 05:49 |
| snap-l | np | 05:49 |
| rick_h_ | Blazeix: looks like just the mysql packages has the header files (at least things seem to be building) | 12:13 |
| rick_h_ | as for the dual monitors: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/729788 | 12:13 |
| rick_h_ | I had seen somewhere someone fixing it with a .38 kernel update so had hoped the arch kernels would be the savior there | 12:13 |
| brousch | rick_h_: can't you downgrade your bios to the working version? | 12:43 |
| rick_h_ | brousch: no, the version I was on is no longer available for download | 13:20 |
| rick_h_ | they only ahve the last XX versions | 13:20 |
| rick_h_ | hmmm, ok cool. So while I can't get the full 1920 display on the second monitor | 13:48 |
| rick_h_ | I can set to the max xrandr/kernel/driver things it can do ( | 13:49 |
| rick_h_ | 1280x1024 | 13:49 |
| rick_h_ | and I can then set the monitor to not stretch the image | 13:49 |
| rick_h_ | so nice wide bars on the sides of the display, but a set of pixels I didn't have earlier | 13:49 |
| brousch | 1280 pixel should be enough for anyone | 14:47 |
| rick_h_ | lol, silly man | 15:06 |
| brousch | 1280x800 is the perfect resolution. my mbp tells me so | 15:07 |
| snap-l | heh | 15:24 |
| snap-l | rick_h_: So, how is Arch treating you? | 15:56 |
| brousch | jcastro: do you run a gmail notifier in unity? if so, which one? | 15:59 |
| jcastro | brousch: I don't | 16:24 |
| jcastro | there's a bunch of half finished crap ones though. :( | 16:24 |
| jcastro | brousch: ask on askubuntu.com and tag it software-recommendation | 16:24 |
| brousch | heh | 16:49 |
| brousch | a guy asked me which one i use because all he found were broken crap ones ;) | 16:49 |
| Blazeix | yeah, they're all in a sad state. I used to run Cloud Services Notifier, which I found to be the best | 17:11 |
| Blazeix | it at least integrates with gnome's keyring | 17:12 |
| Blazeix | you have to be careful, a lot of them are poorly written, and will either store your password in plain-text, or download and parse the html of the gmail web interface. | 17:12 |
| rick_h_ | snap-l: so far so good, not had a lot of time behind the machine with the travels | 17:27 |
| rick_h_ | so still getting things setup | 17:27 |
| rick_h_ | taking a little longer than usual since I can't copy/paste my normal setup commands from the wiki I have | 17:27 |
| rick_h_ | Blazeix: ping | 17:32 |
| snap-l | rick_h_: Cool. Will have to see what's up next time we meet | 17:38 |
| rick_h_ | yea, good stuff | 17:38 |
| rick_h_ | working on getting things setup to be able to do work on monday, wheee | 17:38 |
| snap-l | wewt | 17:40 |
| rick_h_ | heh, so many years of training colliding | 17:49 |
| * rick_h_ loads up /var/www...oh...doesn't exist | 17:49 | |
| Blazeix | rick_h_: /srv/http | 17:58 |
| rick_h_ | yea, just mean that there's different ways of doing things | 17:58 |
| rick_h_ | I finally got used to sudo service XXX and now it's /etc/rc.d/xxx | 17:58 |
| rick_h_ | all good though | 17:58 |
| Blazeix | Whenever I'm on a ubuntu system now I type "/etc/rc.d/... damn. /etc/init.d/... damn" | 17:59 |
| Blazeix | then I usually give up | 17:59 |
| rick_h_ | lol | 17:59 |
| snap-l | Interesting, I didn't realize that the Daisy format is designed for print-disabled readers | 18:09 |
| snap-l | and has a key that you get from the Library of Congress. | 18:09 |
| rick_h_ | ?? Daisy format? | 18:09 |
| greg-g | e-text | 18:09 |
| rick_h_ | ah, never heard of it before | 18:09 |
| snap-l | http://openlibrary.org/ | 18:10 |
| snap-l | Was looking for a book in ebook format (Asimov's Guide to the Bible) | 18:10 |
| snap-l | and noticed that the Internet Archive had a copy of it | 18:10 |
| snap-l | but it's in protected DAISY format | 18:10 |
| rick_h_ | interesting | 18:10 |
| snap-l | I have a copy of it in hardcover, but it's a big book. | 18:11 |
| snap-l | and was thinking there might be a way to get it in ebook format | 18:11 |
| snap-l | alas, I don't see a way (no pun intended) | 18:11 |
| rick_h_ | Blazeix _stink_ snap-l widox anyone else: http://bmark.us/events.html | 18:14 |
| rick_h_ | Blazeix: what flash player do you use? | 18:26 |
| rick_h_ | package that is? | 18:26 |
| Blazeix | rick_h_: flashplugin from the multilib repo | 18:28 |
| rick_h_ | k, cool | 18:28 |
| rick_h_ | I saw a ton in AUR | 18:28 |
| rick_h_ | and wasn't sure | 18:28 |
| rick_h_ | wow, just a few deps there | 18:29 |
| jcastro | snap-l: we're leaving here in about 30 minutes | 20:54 |
| greg-g | ok, stackexchange is officially stupid | 21:12 |
| greg-g | I'm apparently logged into askubuntu with one account and meta.askubuntu with another. When I try to log out of meta.askubuntu it asks me to confirm that I want to log out, but it is confirming the logout of the username that is on askubuntu, not meta.askubuntu | 21:13 |
| rick_h_ | oops | 21:14 |
| greg-g | and all I want to do is freaking request to merge two accounts, but I need 5 reputation points on askubuntu to even ask for help on meta.askbuntu, which is dumb as hell | 21:14 |
| greg-g | the account that is logged into meta only has 1, the one that is logged into askubuntu has 23, but I can't log out of meta, so, yeah, stuck. jcastro I blame you. ;) | 21:15 |
| * greg-g goes back to bookie stuff instead :) | 21:15 | |
| jcastro | did you use a different OID each time or something? | 21:15 |
| jcastro | http://meta.askubuntu.com/users/1694/greg-grossmeier | 21:16 |
| jcastro | is you on meta | 21:16 |
| greg-g | yes | 21:16 |
| greg-g | user11778 is the one associated with LP account, greg.grossmeier is associated with my creativecommons.net account | 21:16 |
| greg-g | er, greg-grossmeier I guess | 21:17 |
| jcastro | oh | 21:17 |
| jcastro | so you need to go back and add the second OID to your account | 21:17 |
| greg-g | ah, I guess I just had to wait a few minutes for it to recognize that, now I'm greg-grossmeier on meta... will ask the question | 21:17 |
| rick_h_ | greg-g: cheat? remove the cookies manually via firebug/etc | 21:17 |
| jcastro | greg-g: I just add multiple OIDs to my account, that way whichever one I use that day works | 21:18 |
| greg-g | rick_h_: I'm of the opinion that I shouldn't need to :) and I'll complain before I re-activate firebug ;) | 21:18 |
| rick_h_ | heh, yea since you're good | 21:18 |
| greg-g | jcastro: yeah, but since the UI sucked balls initially, it created 2 accounts for me | 21:18 |
| jcastro | oh | 21:18 |
| greg-g | :), I'll figure it out from here | 21:18 |
| greg-g | jcastro: though, if you want to help (if you can, not sure) http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/1260/please-merge-the-accounts-greg-grossmeier-and-user11778 . Don't feel obligated, I'm fine waiting. | 21:23 |
| jcastro | they usually get those fast | 21:24 |
| greg-g | cool thanks buddy | 21:24 |
| jcastro | I can't see user11778 though | 21:24 |
| greg-g | I swear that is what it told me I was | 21:24 |
| jcastro | oh well | 21:25 |
| jcastro | they'll sort it | 21:25 |
| greg-g | http://askubuntu.com/users/11778/user11778 | 21:25 |
| jcastro | ah | 21:27 |
| jcastro | snap-l: leaving now! | 21:28 |
| snap-l | Cool | 21:29 |
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