[00:01] They are, but the amount of whining is intolerable [00:01] I don't believe it is whining [00:02] I think it is real concerns when a company requires copyright *transfer* (not just a non-exclusive license) for your work so that they could produce a proprietary version. The rhetoric from the companies is pathetic compared to the real concerns of the volunteer developers'. [00:03] Then don't contribute [00:03] "trust us" is not an answer [00:03] snap-l: exactly, and that is exactly what the companies are saying to the community [00:03] somewhere in there is a compromise. [00:03] that is why we have LibreOffice [00:04] when the companies are saying, implicitly, "don't contribute here" but then on the other hand say "yay, we're a community/open-source project! We're cool!" that is a *tad* disingenuous. [00:06] its' funny, but the more you tell people they're not welcome, the more they don't come around anymore [00:06] and the more they tell their friends [00:06] it's weird how that works [00:06] :) true, so, guess what will happen to Unity? [00:07] that's more of a statement/command than a question, I guess. [00:08] Well, if it turns out that Haromony, Unity, and Community are just bullshit buzzwords, then we'll have some soul searching to do [00:08] on whether we want to be a part of any of the above. [00:08] interesting way to group/phrase that. [00:09] * greg-g would love to take the time to write a blog post about this :/ [00:09] I'm not close enough to it to make anything intelligent [00:09] all I see are the results [00:10] doesn't harmony fly in the face of everything JOno wrote in his book? [00:11] jjesse: It's starting to make me think that the hardcopy is going up on Amazon soon [00:11] i think i got a free soft copy someplace [00:14] And there it goes. [00:16] jjesse: I don't know if he even addresses copyright assignment/licensing agreements [00:19] It mostly talks about Creative Commons [00:20] Earlier I went into detail about why openness and transparency are important in volunteer [00:20] communities. Dictatorial communities are something of an antithesis to this approach, [00:20] and their leaders always face the risk of not being representative of the views of the wider [00:20] community. [00:20] -- Jono Bacon [00:23] yeah, kind of related but not directly [00:24] Yeah, sort of [00:29] Have to say, I'm very disappointed with how I've perceived Canonical operating this cycle [00:31] * greg-g nods [00:32] Seriously, if they prove Bradley Kuhn right, I'll be _pissed off_ [00:37] lol [01:07] who is bradley kuhn? [01:23] http://identi.ca/bkuhn [01:26] http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1529.html [01:55] howdy, back to civilization (well computer) [01:56] did I miss anything while I was away? [01:56] welcome back, rick_h_ [01:56] not a ton, just the implosion of the ubuntu community [01:57] oh yea? cool [01:57] :) [02:27] Blazeix: crap, have things a bit prettier on arch, but even with the .38 kernel no dual monitor setup for me :( [02:44] Blazeix: what's the equiv of a -dev package for arch? [02:47] oh man, first my buddy Pete from Minneapolis, now you. That Arch stuff :/ [02:47] ;) [02:48] yea, I'm going to get some nixternal love later I'm sure [02:51] huh [02:51] greg-g: don't worry about it, it won't take him long to get tired of arch [02:52] after using arch for a bit, i came to the realization that arch is for people who are scared of gentoo and deathly afriad of slackware or lfs [02:53] hah [02:53] i never did get grub right. had to force windows bootloader to take over again [02:53] rick_h_ will like it up until they do a python upgrade, then he will be in here flipping out [02:53] slestak: suck :/ [02:53] nixternal: hahaha [02:53] been sould searching for hours. ready to try sth different [02:54] nixternal: hey, that's me [02:54] it was neat how arch dismantled themselves and made their distro useless for a week last year when they decided it was time to upgrade to python3. they broke everything with a single upload [02:54] lfs, oh hell no [02:54] just left ubuntu [02:54] lfs was fun the first time [02:54] opensuse has some fans in my lug [02:55] that's because of all the resources opensuse hogs, need all those fans to try and cool it down :p [02:55] if my system's going to break might as well have some fun [02:56] I've been saying I'm not canonical/ubuntu's target user anyway [02:56] when "fun" == "time spent figuring things out instead of getting work done" I'm kind of not on board :P [02:56] might as well try some distro where I am the target user [02:56] greg-g: when did the community implode? did I miss something? granted I have been doing 'Mark all as read' in Google Reader lately :) [02:57] nixternal: I was exaggerating based on snap-l and I's discussion of the Harmony project [02:57] ahh [02:58] what is this? I missed it I guess [03:14] hell yes arch is for people who are scared of gentoo, lfs, and slackware. [03:14] I think that could be said of every distro [03:17] rick_h_: what is -dev in ubuntu, is it bleeding edge? [03:19] Blazeix: packages that provide the needed bits to build things that depend on them. Like, if you software needs foo to compile/build, you need to foo-dev installed. But you don't need it installed if you are just running the already compiled/built thing. [03:27] rick_h_: I haven't ever needed to install extra packages to do development like that. [03:27] though the majority of the compiling I do is handled via AUR [03:28] Is the dual monitor issue a known driver bug? It's rare to have dual monitors not work under any distro nowadays. [04:29] Man, could Project Harmony have picked a worse name [04:30] considering there's a group to prevent child abuse with the same moniker. [04:30] And Harmony is the name of the Apache Java project [04:30] which is what I was initially thinking folks were discussing [04:41] yeah, same sort of thing for Unity. I use Microsoft's Unity at work, and a while back I was testing out the game framework Unity. [05:02] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pymAoh7KH64&NR=1 [05:08] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-April/032988.html [05:08] snap-l: bullet point 6 ^ [05:09] Blazeix: Yeah, I saw that. :) [05:31] one of my friends wants to buy a book so he can begin learning about databases. Any recommendations? [05:31] He's a C developer, absoutely zero SQL experience [05:31] thinking about just pointing him toward an O'Reilly book [05:35] Blazeix: What does e want to learn re: databases? [05:36] basic use in an application [05:36] What language? [05:36] nothing to deep. He's trying to learn django and his lack of db experience is holding him back [05:36] Well, shit.. just learn Django [05:37] doesn't it have the DB stuff bolted on? [05:37] All he'd need to know right now is stuff goes in, stuff goes out [05:38] Or are you looking for things like creating users / grants, and the like? [05:38] I don't think he's happy with treating it as a black box [05:38] yeah, user permissions, creating tables, intelligent table design [05:39] actually, wikibooks might have something... [05:39] I think he's asking for the impossible. :) [05:40] wThe Beginning MySQL book from Apress is nice [05:40] even has some code samples [05:42] http://www.apress.com/9781590595350 [05:42] ok, thanks. I just pointed him to wikibook's SQL lessons [05:42] Hopefully then he can learn more, and figure out exactly what he wants :) [05:43] ooh, that looks nice. Right now he's just using sqlite, though he has a postgres install on his server. [05:44] http://books.slashdot.org/story/04/11/17/1827201/The-Definitive-Guide-to-MySQL-2nd-Ed [05:44] this might be good too http://www.apress.com/9781590594780 [05:45] oh awesome slashdot review [05:45] Yeah, that's also a good book [05:49] thanks, I sent the links over his way [05:49] np [12:13] Blazeix: looks like just the mysql packages has the header files (at least things seem to be building) [12:13] as for the dual monitors: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/729788 [12:13] I had seen somewhere someone fixing it with a .38 kernel update so had hoped the arch kernels would be the savior there [12:43] rick_h_: can't you downgrade your bios to the working version? [13:20] brousch: no, the version I was on is no longer available for download [13:20] they only ahve the last XX versions [13:48] hmmm, ok cool. So while I can't get the full 1920 display on the second monitor [13:49] I can set to the max xrandr/kernel/driver things it can do ( [13:49] 1280x1024 [13:49] and I can then set the monitor to not stretch the image [13:49] so nice wide bars on the sides of the display, but a set of pixels I didn't have earlier [14:47] 1280 pixel should be enough for anyone [15:06] lol, silly man [15:07] 1280x800 is the perfect resolution. my mbp tells me so [15:24] heh [15:56] rick_h_: So, how is Arch treating you? [15:59] jcastro: do you run a gmail notifier in unity? if so, which one? [16:24] brousch: I don't [16:24] there's a bunch of half finished crap ones though. :( [16:24] brousch: ask on askubuntu.com and tag it software-recommendation [16:49] heh [16:49] a guy asked me which one i use because all he found were broken crap ones ;) [17:11] yeah, they're all in a sad state. I used to run Cloud Services Notifier, which I found to be the best [17:12] it at least integrates with gnome's keyring [17:12] you have to be careful, a lot of them are poorly written, and will either store your password in plain-text, or download and parse the html of the gmail web interface. [17:27] snap-l: so far so good, not had a lot of time behind the machine with the travels [17:27] so still getting things setup [17:27] taking a little longer than usual since I can't copy/paste my normal setup commands from the wiki I have [17:32] Blazeix: ping [17:38] rick_h_: Cool. Will have to see what's up next time we meet [17:38] yea, good stuff [17:38] working on getting things setup to be able to do work on monday, wheee [17:40] wewt [17:49] heh, so many years of training colliding [17:49] * rick_h_ loads up /var/www...oh...doesn't exist [17:58] rick_h_: /srv/http [17:58] yea, just mean that there's different ways of doing things [17:58] I finally got used to sudo service XXX and now it's /etc/rc.d/xxx [17:58] all good though [17:59] Whenever I'm on a ubuntu system now I type "/etc/rc.d/... damn. /etc/init.d/... damn" [17:59] then I usually give up [17:59] lol [18:09] Interesting, I didn't realize that the Daisy format is designed for print-disabled readers [18:09] and has a key that you get from the Library of Congress. [18:09] ?? Daisy format? [18:09] e-text [18:09] ah, never heard of it before [18:10] http://openlibrary.org/ [18:10] Was looking for a book in ebook format (Asimov's Guide to the Bible) [18:10] and noticed that the Internet Archive had a copy of it [18:10] but it's in protected DAISY format [18:10] interesting [18:11] I have a copy of it in hardcover, but it's a big book. [18:11] and was thinking there might be a way to get it in ebook format [18:11] alas, I don't see a way (no pun intended) [18:14] Blazeix _stink_ snap-l widox anyone else: http://bmark.us/events.html [18:26] Blazeix: what flash player do you use? [18:26] package that is? [18:28] rick_h_: flashplugin from the multilib repo [18:28] k, cool [18:28] I saw a ton in AUR [18:28] and wasn't sure [18:29] wow, just a few deps there [20:54] snap-l: we're leaving here in about 30 minutes [21:12] ok, stackexchange is officially stupid [21:13] I'm apparently logged into askubuntu with one account and meta.askubuntu with another. When I try to log out of meta.askubuntu it asks me to confirm that I want to log out, but it is confirming the logout of the username that is on askubuntu, not meta.askubuntu [21:14] oops [21:14] and all I want to do is freaking request to merge two accounts, but I need 5 reputation points on askubuntu to even ask for help on meta.askbuntu, which is dumb as hell [21:15] the account that is logged into meta only has 1, the one that is logged into askubuntu has 23, but I can't log out of meta, so, yeah, stuck. jcastro I blame you. ;) [21:15] * greg-g goes back to bookie stuff instead :) [21:15] did you use a different OID each time or something? [21:16] http://meta.askubuntu.com/users/1694/greg-grossmeier [21:16] is you on meta [21:16] yes [21:16] user11778 is the one associated with LP account, greg.grossmeier is associated with my creativecommons.net account [21:17] er, greg-grossmeier I guess [21:17] oh [21:17] so you need to go back and add the second OID to your account [21:17] ah, I guess I just had to wait a few minutes for it to recognize that, now I'm greg-grossmeier on meta... will ask the question [21:17] greg-g: cheat? remove the cookies manually via firebug/etc [21:18] greg-g: I just add multiple OIDs to my account, that way whichever one I use that day works [21:18] rick_h_: I'm of the opinion that I shouldn't need to :) and I'll complain before I re-activate firebug ;) [21:18] heh, yea since you're good [21:18] jcastro: yeah, but since the UI sucked balls initially, it created 2 accounts for me [21:18] oh [21:18] :), I'll figure it out from here [21:23] jcastro: though, if you want to help (if you can, not sure) http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/1260/please-merge-the-accounts-greg-grossmeier-and-user11778 . Don't feel obligated, I'm fine waiting. [21:24] they usually get those fast [21:24] cool thanks buddy [21:24] I can't see user11778 though [21:24] I swear that is what it told me I was [21:25] oh well [21:25] they'll sort it [21:25] http://askubuntu.com/users/11778/user11778 [21:27] ah [21:28] snap-l: leaving now! [21:29] Cool