[00:01] <snap-l> They are, but the amount of whining is intolerable
[00:01] <greg-g> I don't believe it is whining
[00:02] <greg-g> I think it is real concerns when a company requires copyright *transfer* (not just a non-exclusive license) for your work so that they could produce a proprietary version. The rhetoric from the companies is pathetic compared to the real concerns of the volunteer developers'.
[00:03] <snap-l> Then don't contribute
[00:03] <greg-g> "trust us" is not an answer
[00:03] <greg-g> snap-l: exactly, and that is exactly what the companies are saying to the community
[00:03] <snap-l> somewhere in there is a compromise.
[00:03] <greg-g> that is why we have LibreOffice
[00:04] <greg-g> when the companies are saying, implicitly, "don't contribute here" but then on the other hand say "yay, we're a community/open-source project! We're cool!" that is a *tad* disingenuous.
[00:06] <snap-l> its' funny, but the more you tell people they're not welcome, the more they don't come around anymore
[00:06] <snap-l> and the more they tell their friends
[00:06] <snap-l> it's weird how that works
[00:06] <greg-g> :) true, so, guess what will happen to Unity?
[00:07] <greg-g> that's more of a statement/command than a question, I guess.
[00:08] <snap-l> Well, if it turns out that Haromony, Unity, and Community are just bullshit buzzwords, then we'll have some soul searching to do
[00:08] <snap-l> on whether we want to be a part of any of the above.
[00:08] <greg-g> interesting way to group/phrase that.
[00:09]  * greg-g would love to take the time to write a blog post about this :/
[00:09] <snap-l> I'm not close enough to it to make anything intelligent
[00:09] <snap-l> all I see are the results
[00:10] <jjesse> doesn't harmony fly in the face of everything JOno wrote in his book?
[00:11] <snap-l> jjesse: It's starting to make me think that the hardcopy is going up on Amazon soon
[00:11] <jjesse> i think i got a free soft copy someplace
[00:14] <snap-l> And there it goes.
[00:16] <greg-g> jjesse: I don't know if he even addresses copyright assignment/licensing agreements
[00:19] <snap-l> It mostly talks about Creative Commons
[00:20] <snap-l> Earlier I went into detail about why openness and transparency are important in volunteer
[00:20] <snap-l> communities. Dictatorial communities are something of an antithesis to this approach,
[00:20] <snap-l> and their leaders always face the risk of not being representative of the views of the wider
[00:20] <snap-l> community.
[00:20] <snap-l> -- Jono Bacon
[00:23] <greg-g> yeah, kind of related but not directly
[00:24] <snap-l> Yeah, sort of
[00:29] <snap-l> Have to say, I'm very disappointed with how I've perceived Canonical operating this cycle
[00:31]  * greg-g nods
[00:32] <snap-l> Seriously, if they prove Bradley Kuhn right, I'll be _pissed off_
[00:37] <greg-g> lol
[01:07] <jjesse> who is bradley kuhn?
[01:23] <snap-l> http://identi.ca/bkuhn
[01:26] <snap-l> http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1529.html
[01:55] <rick_h_> howdy, back to civilization (well computer)
[01:56] <rick_h_> did I miss anything while I was away?
[01:56] <greg-g> welcome back, rick_h_
[01:56] <greg-g> not a ton, just the implosion of the ubuntu community
[01:57] <rick_h_> oh yea? cool
[01:57] <greg-g> :)
[02:27] <rick_h_> Blazeix: crap, have things a bit prettier on arch, but even with the .38 kernel no dual monitor setup for me :(
[02:44] <rick_h_> Blazeix: what's the equiv of a -dev package for arch?
[02:47] <greg-g> oh man, first my buddy Pete from Minneapolis, now you. That Arch stuff :/
[02:47] <greg-g> ;)
[02:48] <rick_h_> yea, I'm going to get some nixternal love later I'm sure
[02:51] <nixternal> huh
[02:51] <nixternal> greg-g: don't worry about it, it won't take him long to get tired of arch
[02:52] <nixternal> after using arch for a bit, i came to the realization that arch is for people who are scared of gentoo and deathly afriad of slackware or lfs
[02:53] <greg-g> hah
[02:53] <slestak> i never did get grub right.  had to force windows bootloader to take over again
[02:53] <nixternal> rick_h_ will like it up until they do a python upgrade, then he will be in here flipping out
[02:53] <greg-g> slestak: suck :/
[02:53] <greg-g> nixternal: hahaha
[02:53] <slestak> been sould searching for hours.  ready to try sth different
[02:54] <rick_h_> nixternal: hey, that's me
[02:54] <nixternal> it was neat how arch dismantled themselves and made their distro useless for a week last year when they decided it was time to upgrade to python3. they broke everything with a single upload
[02:54] <rick_h_> lfs, oh hell no
[02:54] <rick_h_> just left ubuntu
[02:54] <nixternal> lfs was fun the first time
[02:54] <slestak> opensuse has some fans in my lug
[02:55] <nixternal> that's because of all the resources opensuse hogs, need all those fans to try and cool it down :p
[02:55] <rick_h_> if my system's going to break might as well have some fun
[02:56] <rick_h_> I've been saying I'm not canonical/ubuntu's target user anyway
[02:56] <greg-g> when "fun" == "time spent figuring things out instead of getting work done" I'm kind of not on board :P
[02:56] <rick_h_> might as well try some distro where I am the target user
[02:56] <nixternal> greg-g: when did the community implode? did I miss something? granted I have been doing 'Mark all as read' in Google Reader lately :)
[02:57] <greg-g> nixternal: I was exaggerating based on snap-l and I's discussion of the Harmony project
[02:57] <nixternal> ahh
[02:58] <rick_h_> what is this? I missed it I guess
[03:14] <Blazeix> hell yes arch is for people who are scared of gentoo, lfs, and slackware.
[03:14] <Blazeix> I think that could be said of every distro
[03:17] <Blazeix> rick_h_: what is -dev in ubuntu, is it bleeding edge?
[03:19] <greg-g> Blazeix: packages that provide the needed bits to build things that depend on them. Like, if you software needs foo to compile/build, you need to foo-dev installed. But you don't need it installed if you are just running the already compiled/built thing.
[03:27] <Blazeix> rick_h_: I haven't ever needed to install extra packages to do development like that.
[03:27] <Blazeix> though the majority of the compiling I do is handled via AUR
[03:28] <Blazeix> Is the dual monitor issue a known driver bug? It's rare to have dual monitors not work under any distro nowadays.
[04:29] <snap-l> Man, could Project Harmony have picked a worse name
[04:30] <snap-l> considering there's a group to prevent child abuse with the same moniker.
[04:30] <snap-l> And Harmony is the name of the Apache Java project
[04:30] <snap-l> which is what I was initially thinking folks were discussing
[04:41] <Blazeix> yeah, same sort of thing for Unity. I use Microsoft's Unity at work, and a while back I was testing out the game framework Unity.
[05:02] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pymAoh7KH64&NR=1
[05:08] <Blazeix> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-April/032988.html
[05:08] <Blazeix> snap-l: bullet point 6 ^
[05:09] <snap-l> Blazeix: Yeah, I saw that. :)
[05:31] <Blazeix> one of my friends wants to buy a book so he can begin learning about databases. Any recommendations?
[05:31] <Blazeix> He's a C developer, absoutely zero SQL experience
[05:31] <Blazeix> thinking about just pointing him toward an O'Reilly book
[05:35] <snap-l> Blazeix: What does e want to learn re: databases?
[05:36] <Blazeix> basic use in an application
[05:36] <snap-l> What language?
[05:36] <Blazeix> nothing to deep. He's trying to learn django and his lack of db experience is holding him back
[05:36] <snap-l> Well, shit.. just learn Django
[05:37] <snap-l> doesn't it have the DB stuff bolted on?
[05:37] <snap-l> All he'd need to know right now is stuff goes in, stuff goes out
[05:38] <snap-l> Or are you looking for things like creating users / grants, and the like?
[05:38] <Blazeix> I don't think he's happy with treating it as a black box
[05:38] <Blazeix> yeah, user permissions, creating tables, intelligent table design
[05:39] <Blazeix> actually, wikibooks might have something...
[05:39] <snap-l> I think he's asking for the impossible. :)
[05:40] <snap-l> wThe Beginning MySQL book from Apress is nice
[05:40] <snap-l> even has some code samples
[05:42] <snap-l> http://www.apress.com/9781590595350
[05:42] <Blazeix> ok, thanks. I just pointed him to wikibook's SQL lessons
[05:42] <Blazeix> Hopefully then he can learn more, and figure out exactly what he wants :)
[05:43] <Blazeix> ooh, that looks nice. Right now he's just using sqlite, though he has a postgres install on his server.
[05:44] <snap-l> http://books.slashdot.org/story/04/11/17/1827201/The-Definitive-Guide-to-MySQL-2nd-Ed
[05:44] <Blazeix> this might be good too http://www.apress.com/9781590594780
[05:45] <Blazeix> oh awesome slashdot review
[05:45] <snap-l> Yeah, that's also a good book
[05:49] <Blazeix> thanks, I sent the links over his way
[05:49] <snap-l> np
[12:13] <rick_h_> Blazeix: looks like just the mysql packages has the header files (at least things seem to be building)
[12:13] <rick_h_> as for the dual monitors: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/729788
[12:13] <rick_h_> I had seen somewhere someone fixing it with a .38 kernel update so had hoped the arch kernels would be the savior there
[12:43] <brousch> rick_h_: can't you downgrade your bios to the working version?
[13:20] <rick_h_> brousch: no, the version I was on is no longer available for download
[13:20] <rick_h_> they only ahve the last XX versions
[13:48] <rick_h_> hmmm, ok cool. So while I can't get the full 1920 display on the second monitor
[13:49] <rick_h_> I can set to the max xrandr/kernel/driver things it can do (
[13:49] <rick_h_> 1280x1024
[13:49] <rick_h_> and I can then set the monitor to not stretch the image
[13:49] <rick_h_> so nice wide bars on the sides of the display, but a set of pixels I didn't have earlier
[14:47] <brousch> 1280 pixel should be enough for anyone
[15:06] <rick_h_> lol, silly man
[15:07] <brousch> 1280x800 is the perfect resolution. my mbp tells me so
[15:24] <snap-l> heh
[15:56] <snap-l> rick_h_: So, how is Arch treating you?
[15:59] <brousch> jcastro: do you run a gmail notifier in unity? if so, which one?
[16:24] <jcastro> brousch: I don't
[16:24] <jcastro> there's a bunch of half finished crap ones though. :(
[16:24] <jcastro> brousch: ask on askubuntu.com and tag it software-recommendation
[16:49] <brousch> heh
[16:49] <brousch> a guy asked me which one i use because all he found were broken crap ones ;)
[17:11] <Blazeix> yeah, they're all in a sad state. I used to run Cloud Services Notifier, which I found to be the best
[17:12] <Blazeix> it at least integrates with gnome's keyring
[17:12] <Blazeix> you have to be careful, a lot of them are poorly written, and will either store your password in plain-text, or download and parse the html of the gmail web interface.
[17:27] <rick_h_> snap-l: so far so good, not had a lot of time behind the machine with the travels
[17:27] <rick_h_> so still getting things setup
[17:27] <rick_h_> taking a little longer than usual since I can't copy/paste my normal setup commands from the wiki I have
[17:32] <rick_h_> Blazeix: ping
[17:38] <snap-l> rick_h_: Cool. Will have to see what's up next time we meet
[17:38] <rick_h_> yea, good stuff
[17:38] <rick_h_> working on getting things setup to be able to do work on monday, wheee
[17:40] <snap-l> wewt
[17:49] <rick_h_> heh, so many years of training colliding
[17:49]  * rick_h_ loads up /var/www...oh...doesn't exist
[17:58] <Blazeix> rick_h_: /srv/http
[17:58] <rick_h_> yea, just mean that there's different ways of doing things
[17:58] <rick_h_> I finally got used to sudo service XXX and now it's /etc/rc.d/xxx
[17:58] <rick_h_> all good though
[17:59] <Blazeix> Whenever I'm on a ubuntu system now I type "/etc/rc.d/... damn. /etc/init.d/... damn"
[17:59] <Blazeix> then I usually give up
[17:59] <rick_h_> lol
[18:09] <snap-l> Interesting, I didn't realize that the Daisy format is designed for print-disabled readers
[18:09] <snap-l> and has a key that you get from the Library of Congress.
[18:09] <rick_h_> ?? Daisy format?
[18:09] <greg-g> e-text
[18:09] <rick_h_> ah, never heard of it before
[18:10] <snap-l> http://openlibrary.org/
[18:10] <snap-l> Was looking for a book in ebook format (Asimov's Guide to the Bible)
[18:10] <snap-l> and noticed that the Internet Archive had a copy of it
[18:10] <snap-l> but it's in protected DAISY format
[18:10] <rick_h_> interesting
[18:11] <snap-l> I have a copy of it in hardcover, but it's a big book.
[18:11] <snap-l> and was thinking there might be a way to get it in ebook format
[18:11] <snap-l> alas, I don't see a way (no pun intended)
[18:14] <rick_h_> Blazeix _stink_ snap-l widox anyone else: http://bmark.us/events.html
[18:26] <rick_h_> Blazeix: what flash player do you use?
[18:26] <rick_h_> package that is?
[18:28] <Blazeix> rick_h_: flashplugin from the multilib repo
[18:28] <rick_h_> k, cool
[18:28] <rick_h_> I saw a ton in AUR
[18:28] <rick_h_> and wasn't sure
[18:29] <rick_h_> wow, just a few deps there
[20:54] <jcastro> snap-l: we're leaving here in about 30 minutes
[21:12] <greg-g> ok, stackexchange is officially stupid
[21:13] <greg-g> I'm apparently logged into askubuntu with one account and meta.askubuntu with another. When I try to log out of meta.askubuntu it asks me to confirm that I want to log out, but it is confirming the logout of the username that is on askubuntu, not meta.askubuntu
[21:14] <rick_h_> oops
[21:14] <greg-g> and all I want to do is freaking request to merge two accounts, but I need 5 reputation points on askubuntu to even ask for help on meta.askbuntu, which is dumb as hell
[21:15] <greg-g> the account that is logged into meta only has 1, the one that is logged into askubuntu has 23, but I can't log out of meta, so, yeah, stuck. jcastro I blame you. ;)
[21:15]  * greg-g goes back to bookie stuff instead :)
[21:15] <jcastro> did you use a different OID each time or something?
[21:16] <jcastro> http://meta.askubuntu.com/users/1694/greg-grossmeier
[21:16] <jcastro> is you on meta
[21:16] <greg-g> yes
[21:16] <greg-g> user11778 is the one associated with LP account, greg.grossmeier is associated with my creativecommons.net account
[21:17] <greg-g> er, greg-grossmeier I guess
[21:17] <jcastro> oh
[21:17] <jcastro> so you need to go back and add the second OID to your account
[21:17] <greg-g> ah, I guess I just had to wait a few minutes for it to recognize that, now I'm greg-grossmeier on meta... will ask the question
[21:17] <rick_h_> greg-g: cheat? remove the cookies manually via firebug/etc
[21:18] <jcastro> greg-g: I just add multiple OIDs to my account, that way whichever one I use that day works
[21:18] <greg-g> rick_h_: I'm of the opinion that I shouldn't need to :) and I'll complain before I re-activate firebug ;)
[21:18] <rick_h_> heh, yea since you're good
[21:18] <greg-g> jcastro: yeah, but since the UI sucked balls initially, it created 2 accounts for me
[21:18] <jcastro> oh
[21:18] <greg-g> :), I'll figure it out from here
[21:23] <greg-g> jcastro: though, if you want to help (if you can, not sure) http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/1260/please-merge-the-accounts-greg-grossmeier-and-user11778 . Don't feel obligated, I'm fine waiting.
[21:24] <jcastro> they usually get those fast
[21:24] <greg-g> cool thanks buddy
[21:24] <jcastro> I can't see user11778 though
[21:24] <greg-g> I swear that is what it told me I was
[21:25] <jcastro> oh well
[21:25] <jcastro> they'll sort it
[21:25] <greg-g> http://askubuntu.com/users/11778/user11778
[21:27] <jcastro> ah
[21:28] <jcastro> snap-l: leaving now!
[21:29] <snap-l> Cool