[01:07] <fisch246> i sent out the email
[01:15] <fisch246> #tclug is a Twin Cities LUG team :D
[03:00] <klynch> hey all.
[03:01] <fisch246> hey
[03:03] <klynch> fisch246: Having a better night?
[03:03] <fisch246> better?
[03:03] <klynch> fisch246: Amensia work out well?
[03:04] <fisch246> ah
[03:04] <fisch246> nah
[03:04] <fisch246> this fall is going to be hella busy for me...
[03:05] <klynch> fisch246: What you taking in the fall?
[03:05] <fisch246> actually it's not about what i'm taking
[03:06] <fisch246> i'm setting up a LUG at my new school
[03:06] <klynch> fisch246: which school is that?
[03:06] <fisch246> i'm gonna attempt to get it off the ground, then make it community run
[03:07] <fisch246> NHCC
[03:07] <fisch246> north hennipen
[03:07] <klynch> nice maybe I will transfer there. They have a program I was looking at.
[03:08] <klynch> thats sounds like a good idea would love to be apart of a LUG.
[03:08] <fisch246> sure thing :)
[03:08] <fisch246> it's not going to follow Ubuntu or their policies btw...
[03:09] <fisch246> i'll be leader until everyone is motivated, and knows each other... then i'll leave it to everyone to do their part
[03:09] <klynch> nice
[03:09] <klynch> so multi-distro
[03:10] <fisch246> yes
[03:10] <klynch> cool
[03:10] <fisch246> no rules, except school policy
[03:11] <klynch> I like a variety myself.
[03:11] <fisch246> well me and the Ubuntu community has slowly been parting ways...
[03:12] <fisch246> the community basically ignores Linux entirely...
[03:12] <fisch246> especially the ideals that follow
[03:13] <fisch246> i
[03:13] <fisch246> i've heard horror stories >.>
[03:14] <klynch> do you mean ignores linux outside of ubuntu? or altogether
[03:15] <fisch246> no not at all
[03:15] <fisch246> never had that happen
[03:16] <fisch246> they love linux... but Linux people don't like Ubuntu community...
[03:17] <klynch> oh i see
[03:17] <fisch246> not very friendly people, and not very um...
[03:17] <fisch246> well like i said... ideals
[03:17] <fisch246> they don't follow them
[03:17] <fisch246> Linux people like Ubuntu, just not the people behind it
[03:18] <fisch246> in fact i've only had people from this channel want to come to the party
[03:18] <fisch246> i go to other channels and they're like "cool install fest", then i tell them it's for the LoCo team, and i get a no...
[03:19] <fisch246> generally because of mister Yarusso >.>
[03:19] <fisch246> apparently he broke some rules and pissed some people in the TC LUG group
[03:20] <tonyyarusso> Say what now?
[03:20] <fisch246> why hello
[03:21] <fisch246> tonyyarusso: "freenode debacle"
[03:21] <klynch> Well hopefully it is fun
[03:21] <fisch246> i won't say more
[03:21] <tonyyarusso> Perhaps you should say more, since I have no idea what you mean.
[03:21] <fisch246> logging with out notification..
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> Oh, that guy.  Heh.
[03:22] <fisch246> not really a small deal >.>
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> Considering I'm only aware of a grand total of one person who was involved in that, I'd have to disagree.
[03:22] <fisch246> well i haven't had any problems with you as of yet
[03:23] <klynch> I am pretty sure I am lost
[03:23] <fisch246> the only thing i'd have to say i'm disappointed about is how unmotivated our LoCo team is D:
[03:23] <fisch246> which should explain my message
[03:24] <tonyyarusso> klynch: See the thing in the /topic that says "This channel has logs available on http://irclogs.ubuntu-minnesota.org/"?  That didn't used to be there, and one of the people who gets upset about that wandered in here one day.
[03:24] <tonyyarusso> Motivating is all done by users - so far we've only had maybe four people ever take initiative on anything, with much prodding.
[03:25] <fisch246> well i think it takes only 1 motivated person to motivate in entire group...
[03:25] <klynch> so he was mad about loggin?
[03:25] <fisch246> klynch: that people weren't told about the logging
[03:26] <fisch246> tonyyarusso: look at the party i put together... i got motivated, and motivated a ton of people
[03:26] <klynch> jus sounds like a missunderstanding
[03:26]  * tonyyarusso notes that the Freenode web site *still* does not reflect logs supposedly requiring notification
[03:26]  * fisch246 points to the MOTD
[03:27] <tonyyarusso> klynch (also fisch246): There's a group of users that have been making various stinks about channel logging policies for probably 3 years now - it's not at all limited to this individual or this channel, but they're all related.
[03:28] <klynch> I am a soldier. Fuck privacy. sorry have to be blunt.
[03:28] <tonyyarusso> fisch246: Right - the MOTD and the web site disagree, and different network staff disagreed.  The policy is unclear at best.
[03:28] <tonyyarusso> !ohmy
[03:29] <klynch> I got a bot sicked on me
[03:29] <fisch246> sorry about that got dropped
[03:29] <fisch246> i saw the bot message though
[03:29] <fisch246> i'd have to disagree with the bot though >.>
[03:29] <klynch> I am only passionate about a few things.
[03:30] <fisch246> especially with ops
[03:30] <fisch246> spend a day in #ubuntu-offtopic, and you'll see an op trolling someone...
[03:31] <klynch> funny
[03:31] <tonyyarusso> Note:  Usually if ops are picking on someone in -offtopic, the victim is another op.  :P
[03:31] <fisch246> meh maybe...
[03:32] <klynch> sounds a bit like cannibalism
[03:32] <fisch246> the rules drive me crazy though
[03:32] <tonyyarusso> If it's not, then you can raise it with #ubuntu-ops.  But really, most of that is friendly, between long-time users of the channel.
[03:32] <fisch246> makes everyone cranky >.>
[03:32] <tonyyarusso> klynch: It used to be weirder :P
[03:33] <fisch246> tonyyarusso: yea i've reported a few ops before...
[03:33] <tonyyarusso> -ot back in the day was basically just where #ubuntu ops hung out and kicked each other to blow off steam :)
[03:33] <fisch246> XD
[03:33] <fisch246> a perfect example... ##linux has 2 rules... and yet everyone's nicer in there...
[03:34] <fisch246> no one goes "no we won't help you here"
[03:34] <tonyyarusso> Uh, ##linux is a support channel.
[03:34] <fisch246> support/offtopic
[03:34] <fisch246> depends
[03:34] <fisch246> being as there is only 2 rules, it swaps between
[03:35] <tonyyarusso> ##linux is also quite a bit smaller than #ubuntu.
[03:36] <fisch246> i mean i like Ubuntu...
[03:36] <fisch246> i think it's the best linux distro
[03:36] <fisch246> better than Arch...
[03:36] <fisch246> and that's saying something
[03:36] <fisch246> even better than Debian
[03:36] <fisch246> i just think the community can take a chill pill >.>
[03:38] <fisch246> tonyyarusso: mind responding to my message though
[03:38] <fisch246> on here or in PM
[03:38] <fisch246> if you're free that is
[03:38] <fisch246> i know you have taxes
[03:39] <tonyyarusso> In here is probably more useful actually, as others may have similar questions:
[03:39] <fisch246> mmk
[03:40] <fisch246> so anyway i can become co-driver?
[03:40] <fisch246> wow sorry...
[03:41] <fisch246> let me rephrase that
[03:41] <fisch246> how can i become co-driver?
[03:42] <tonyyarusso> In short, the only things my "position" entails are administrative.  The title is actually Team Contact, not Leader, or driver, or boss, or anything like that.  It's not necessary for me to approve of things before they happen, and people should be strongly encouraged to take charge of any projects they think would be cool to work on.  The main thing having an individual identified is useful for is so there's someone that others ...
[03:42] <tonyyarusso> ... can contact regarding LoCo stuff, both for Minnesotans to initially get info, but more so for other parts of the Ubuntu community if they needed to know something about our LoCo (basically, subscribing to a mailing list about loco stuffs and being who the IRC team has on file).  So, has for your question, you're already a driver - you organized an event, which is awesome.  And that's pretty much all there is to it.  :)
[03:44] <fisch246> well starting next fall...
[03:44] <tonyyarusso> On a related note, I still have a dream of having individuals identified as regional organizers of sorts, to help delegate some of the prodding.  :P
[03:44] <fisch246> i'm going to be running several LUGs...
[03:44] <tonyyarusso> Several?
[03:44] <fisch246> yes...
[03:44] <tonyyarusso> hehe, have fun :P
[03:45] <fisch246> i was hoping on helping you run this one...
[03:45] <fisch246> either that... or even better... have no leader >.>
[03:45] <tonyyarusso> By all means - there's just no "process" for doing so.
[03:45] <tonyyarusso> and there is no leader - only a contact.
[03:45] <fisch246> yet you're op to this channel?
[03:45] <tonyyarusso> yeah
[03:46] <fisch246> hm... >.>
[03:46] <tonyyarusso> Only actually used that like once or twice for anything besides topic changes though.
[03:46] <tonyyarusso> (Pretty quiet in here compared to #ubuntu :) )
[03:46] <fisch246> well you log as well...
[03:47] <tonyyarusso> Actually lubotu1 does the logging.
[03:47] <fisch246> >.<
[03:47] <tonyyarusso> or, no.  ubuntulo1_ rather.
[03:47] <sparklehistory> fisch246: What's your point?
[03:47] <tonyyarusso> (All Ubuntu channels except -offtopic are logged.)
[03:47] <fisch246> sparklehistory: leaders push people away
[03:47] <fisch246> in the linux world that is
[03:48] <fisch246> what i plan to do with the LUG at my school is be leader for like a month, for people to get to know each other and get motivated... then i'll step down and have it be community based...
[03:48] <fisch246> allowing it to turn into whatever it wants
[03:49] <tonyyarusso> Ah, see, that won't work here.  Being part of the broader Ubuntu community precludes the "whatever it wants" approach.
[03:49] <fisch246> kinda thinking maybe i will never be leader...
[03:49] <sparklehistory> fisch246: Sounds to me like a recipe for having it turn into an unproductive group that's not really worth anyone's time.
[03:49] <fisch246> sparklehistory: how so?
[03:50] <fisch246> kinda how this LoCo team is apparently run...
[03:50] <fisch246> i came in and motivated people to get together.. the system works
[03:50] <tonyyarusso> So what's the problem?
[03:50] <fisch246> any other than that... you're breaking off from Linux ideals...
[03:51] <tonyyarusso> What do you think "Linux ideals" are?
[03:51] <fisch246> community
[03:51] <fisch246> simply said
[03:51] <tonyyarusso> Uh, more specifically.
[03:51] <tonyyarusso> What is it that you think is broken?
[03:51] <fisch246> no one tells anyone how or what to do with there time
[03:52] <fisch246> take wireshark for example
[03:52] <fisch246> a tool for managing packets on your network
[03:52] <fisch246> yet the developer allows you to do what you want with it
[03:52] <fisch246> like sniffing packets on someone's network if you wanted to
[03:52] <tonyyarusso> And?
[03:52] <fisch246> Ubuntu community is complete opposite of that
[03:53] <tonyyarusso> How so?
[03:53] <fisch246> down on piracy, or anything illegal
[03:53] <tonyyarusso> You can use Ubuntu for whatever you want.
[03:53] <fisch246> tonyyarusso: yes... that's the Ubuntu... why i love it so much... but the community views things differently
[03:53] <tonyyarusso> The Freenode network disallows anything pertaining to illegal activity - that's beyond even Ubuntu.
[03:54] <fisch246> well that's bull...
[03:54] <tonyyarusso> Complain to the Parliament of the United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland then?
[03:55] <fisch246> Linux is suppose to exist outside of politics v,v
[03:55] <fisch246> v.v*
[03:55] <tonyyarusso> Criminal activity is not a "Linux ideal".
[03:55] <fisch246> no... but to be able to do them, and talk about them is...
[03:55] <fisch246> the freedom to do so i mean
[03:55] <tonyyarusso> Enforcement of the GPL at its very core requires adherence to copyright law.
[03:56] <tonyyarusso> Free software is not and has never been a culture of anarchy or unlawfulness - I'm not sure where you got that impression.
[03:56] <fisch246> yes... but it's a little different than normal copyright law
[03:56] <fisch246> i can do what i want with it... as long as i don't sell it
[03:56] <tonyyarusso> Normal copyright law is the basis for how the GPL works.
[03:57] <tonyyarusso> And you CAN sell GPL software.
[03:57] <fisch246> Gnu Public License..
[03:57] <tonyyarusso> And nothing in the GPL gives you permission to do illegal things with the software - it merely does not restrict you from doing legal things.
[03:57] <tonyyarusso> GNU General Public License actually, but close enough ;)
[03:58] <fisch246> well if you want to be specific.. there's 2 of them...
[03:58] <tonyyarusso> v2 if we're talking about the Linux kernel.
[03:59] <fisch246> then which license agreement was it that doesn't allow you to sell?
[03:59] <tonyyarusso> None of them.  Being able to sell the software is one of the requirements for being approved as an open license.
[03:59] <fisch246> as far as i know... CC allows you to do anything... while GPL allows you to do anything, as long as you don't get sell it...
[03:59] <tonyyarusso> Perhaps you're thinking of a Microsoft EULA?  :P
[03:59] <fisch246> no >.<
[03:59] <fisch246> there was a court case about it
[03:59] <tonyyarusso> "CC" is not a license - there are many, many CC licenses.
[04:00] <tonyyarusso> And no, GPL does not allow you to "do anything".
[04:00]  * fisch246 remembers why he prefers CC
[04:01] <tonyyarusso> Again, CC is an entire class of licenses, with a wide variety of things they each allow and exclude.
[04:01] <fisch246> yea but CC allows me to say, do what ever you want with my things
[04:01] <tonyyarusso> CC-BY?  CC-BY-SA?  CC-BY-ND?  CC-BY-SA-NC?  Unported?  USA?  Europe?  etc.
[04:02] <tonyyarusso> The only CC license that allows you to do whatever you want is CC0.
[04:02] <tonyyarusso> CC-BY lets you do almost anything, provided you properly attributed the original source.
[04:02] <fisch246> like DBR... i can download, remix, and even sell his music if i wanted to...
[04:03] <fisch246> i can torrent his music
[04:03] <tonyyarusso> CC-BY-SA lets you do those things, provided you release your derivative works under the same license.  etc.
[04:03] <fisch246> i am actually legally hosting a torrent of his music
[04:03] <tonyyarusso> Okay, so this DBR person's work is not under an -NC class of CC license then (non-commercial).
[04:04] <fisch246> i think it's BY
[04:04] <tonyyarusso> Seems likely.
[04:04] <fisch246> i can use his stuff in a movie if i wanted to, but i'd have to say it was him
[04:04] <fisch246> DBR is run by Jono Bacon btw
[04:05] <tonyyarusso> But you can't blast his work around the neighborhood at midnight, disturbing your neighbors.
[04:05] <fisch246> whom if you don't know.. you should leave this room immediately >.>
[04:05] <fisch246> or never go on Ubuntu trivia
[04:05] <tonyyarusso> Mostly the latter :P
[04:05] <fisch246> yes please don't leave the room D:
[04:06]  * tonyyarusso checks #ubuntu-trivia score
[04:06] <tonyyarusso> Huh, must know him.  ;)
[04:06] <fisch246> that really a channel?
[04:06] <tonyyarusso> Yes, yes it is.
[04:06] <fisch246> XD
[04:07] <tonyyarusso> http://ryanak.ca/trivia.html
[04:08] <fisch246> haha bazhang...
[04:08] <fisch246> he can be an ass sometimes...
[04:08] <fisch246> but most of the time he's just funny
[04:11] <fisch246> i really hate that i can't swear on -ot
[04:12] <fisch246> i suppose then you don't get those teenagers who think swearing is cool, so they say the f-word every sentence >.<
[04:12] <tonyyarusso> Pretty much.
[04:43] <fisch246> :D
[04:43] <fisch246> LUG is coming off the ground
[04:43] <fisch246> next step... website :D
[04:44] <fisch246> klynch: #mnlug
[04:58] <Guest396> hi all!
[04:59] <fisch246> hello
[05:11] <klynch> I feel so left out whenever I leave here. IT seems there is always an interesting message going on.
[05:11] <fisch246> haha
[05:11] <fisch246> did you see my message?
[05:12] <fisch246> about the channel
[05:12] <klynch> yeah is that a cool channel
[05:12] <fisch246> it's my channel
[05:12] <fisch246> for MNSCU LUG :)
[05:12] <klynch> nice
[05:12] <fisch246> Minnesota Schools and Universities Linux User Group
[05:13] <fisch246> and also the state of MN
[06:32]  * Takyoji scratches his chinny-chin-chin.
[06:32] <Takyoji> I wonder what graphics card brand/series would be best for Linux use
[06:32] <Takyoji> I currently have NVIDIA
[06:33] <fisch246> and... website is now up :3
[06:33] <Takyoji> URL?
[06:33] <fisch246> https://sites.google.com/site/mn4linux/
[06:34] <fisch246> still under construction for the most part, but it's a start
[06:39] <fisch246> what do you think?
[06:53] <fisch246> um... ok then
[06:56] <fisch246> damn skype >.<
[23:27] <sundjinnkari> Hello all.
[23:30] <tonyyarusso> sundjinnkari: Hi.  I'd love to chat, but am just heading out.  Back later!  :)
[23:31] <fisch246> i just got home
[23:31] <fisch246> so i'm here
[23:31] <sundjinnkari> Hello there.
[23:32] <sundjinnkari> Im really just looking around for places to chat about ubuntu
[23:32] <sundjinnkari> if this is not the place tell me and ill look elsewhere.
[23:32] <sundjinnkari> Im kinda new to the IRC thing
[23:32] <fisch246> sundjinnkari: here is fine... consider going to #ubuntu-offtopic :) this channel is mostly dead
[23:32] <sundjinnkari> alright
[23:34] <klynch> I am alive
[23:35] <fisch246> #mnlug is also alive >.>