/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/18/#ubuntu-us-mi.txt

snap-lWow, that was loud. :)04:33
Black839what up07:32
rick_h_brousch: I hear that the rush concert was so bad the band is burning all the tape and breaking up now. ;)12:35
brouschrush? are they still around?12:38
brouschmy step mom has some of their albums12:38
brouschdo they mount their instruments to walkers or hoverounds?12:39
rick_h_I'm not sure, the video will never survive12:40
brouschand anyone who was there won't remember due to Alzheimer's12:45
brouschbummer12:46
rick_h_probably12:47
snap-lI think someone is looking for a paddling13:32
tjagodaOh my13:33
rick_h_lol13:33
rick_h_I'm surprised you're up and about this early13:33
snap-lI am too13:33
slestakRush is a bad name for a band that old14:17
slestak(and I do like them)14:17
slestakIm reminded of the Carol Burnett show cahracter with Tim Conway "I'm On My Way..... There"14:18
snap-lIf you saw the band that I saw last night, you wouldn't be saying that. :)14:24
snap-lThey're still well in the height of their powers14:24
snap-lThey recorded the show two nights prior, so if anyone wants a free screening of why Rush is still the #1 band out there, LMK, and when the DVD comes out, we'll do a screening14:26
rick_h_well no point seeing it if we can't see snap-l going nuts in the front row throwing underwear on stage14:26
snap-lOne does not throw things at Rush14:27
snap-lone gets things thrown to him by Rush14:27
snap-llike Back Stage Passes14:27
snap-lwhich would be nice if they'd work on their throwing arm a little bit14:27
rick_h_too told to make the back seats?14:28
rick_h_/told/old14:28
jrwreni just read vwduder's tweet about a gtk3 based abiword... I haven't heard or thought about abiword in at least 7 years.14:29
snap-lrick_h_: You're just jealous that Kiss isn't touring. :)14:30
rick_h_yea, that'd be a good use of a bomb14:30
snap-lA love bomb, maybe.14:31
rick_h_lol, never could stand kiss, like ac/dc14:31
rick_h_for some reason, just never got it14:31
snap-lYeah, about the only thing that I can appreciate of Kiss is the marketing mind of Gene Simmons14:31
snap-lI mean, putting the logo and his ugly mug on just about anything out there exhibits the same shock value that the band were so well known for14:32
snap-lBut after that, it's all pretty middling for me14:33
snap-lFunny enough, Rush toured with Kiss for a while14:36
tjagodahttp://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2011/04/oracle-gives-up-on-ooo-after-community-forks-the-project.ars14:49
tjagodaGood summary of why Oracle threw the towel in its OOo fight14:49
snap-lGee, you mean people will leave if we treat them like shit?14:52
snap-lWhooda thunk it14:52
tjagodaI like the last line of that article14:54
tjagoda"Oracle's current approach to dealing with the communities that  participate in its own open source software projects is clearly not  sustainable, and is arguably becoming detrimental to some aspects of the  company's long-term business agenda. "14:54
snap-lOracle's reasons for the acquisition of Sun can be summed up in one word: hardware.14:56
snap-lThey don't give a shit about the software side of the house14:56
snap-lJava might get some attention14:57
snap-lOwning MySQL means they have the mindshare of the small database market (at least those that haven't skipped off to another fork or PostgreSQL)14:57
snap-lVirtualbox is Virtualbox.14:58
snap-lIt's a shame that Jonathan Schwartz wasn't more successful14:59
jrwrenwhy is that a shame?15:01
snap-lBecause I'm one of the few people that appreciated what Sun did in it's last days.15:01
jrwrenwhat do you appreciate?15:02
jrwrenI saw Schwartz's role as cleaning up after mcnealy and preping for sale.15:02
snap-lThat they opened up Star Office, made NetBeans available for free, started the path to open-sourcing Java, and released VirtualBox as GPL15:03
snap-lAnd didn't screw too much with the licensing of MySQL15:03
snap-lEssentially, they gave away their products15:03
jrwrendidn't nearly all of that happen before schwarz?15:04
tjagodaBecause who was going to buy Star Office anyway?15:04
tjagoda=P15:04
snap-lWhich, um, isn't a particularly sustainable business model, but didn't make me wince in pain when I saw their logo15:04
snap-ljrwren: I thought that all happened within his reign15:04
jrwreni have no idea.15:06
jrwreni only know that sun has never impressed me.15:06
jrwrenthe 80s they may have had some great tech, that was before my time.15:06
jrwrenbut since 1994 everything they have done has been trumped by abilities of linux and open source.15:06
snap-ljrwren: You were born in the 1990s?15:06
jrwrenbefore my unix time silly.15:07
jrwreni'm only a few yrs younger than you.15:07
snap-lI always thought you were born yesterday. ;)15:07
jrwrenyes yes.15:07
jrwrenand you just started using linux yesterday.15:07
snap-lEvery day I start using Linux. :)15:07
snap-lFeel like I'm constantly learning15:08
jrwrenand every day its like the first time.15:08
jrwrenme too.15:08
jrwrenthat is great.15:08
snap-lhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBxbPts5tOk15:08
snap-ljrwren: ^15:08
jrwreni just learned about Windows Search Services or some such and its a never been attempted GSoC15:08
jrwrenI really hope someone picks it up15:08
jrwrenhahaha.15:09
jrwrensnap-l: i will not listen to that, but you made me laugh.15:09
snap-lYeah, I didn't get too far into that song15:11
snap-lSchwartz was president and COO of Sun in 200415:12
snap-lSo it could very well have been his hand making these decisions with Scott McNealy rubber-stamping them15:13
snap-lMcNealy became a ghost after a while.15:13
tjagodasnap-l wants to believe in the Schwartz15:13
jrwrengot ya.15:13
jrwrenI knew mcnealy wasn't out that early15:14
jrwrenbut i can respect that he was COO15:14
snap-ltjagoda: May the Schwartz be with you.15:14
snap-lMcNealy went to cranbrook15:14
snap-lhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_McNealy#Opinions15:15
tjagodaI hate it when my Schwartz gets twisted.15:15
snap-lVery profound idea on the networking piece15:15
jrwrenreally?15:16
jrwrenthe network is the computer?15:16
jrwrenwell, it turned out sun was right on that, but it certainly wasn't like anything they ever suggested.15:16
snap-lThere’s a pendulum thing where stuff is on the client side and then goes back into the network where it belongs. The answering machine put voicemail by the desk, and then it went back into the network. Your iPod is like your home answering machine. I guarantee you it will be hard to sell an iPod five or seven years from now when every cell phone can access your entire music library wherever you are."15:16
snap-lOf course he didn't see the iPhone coming. :)15:17
jrwrenyeah.15:17
jrwrenor rather he DID see the iphone coming. he called it exactly ;)15:17
snap-lI assume he meant that these devices would all be running some shit like Blackberry's JVM. ;)15:18
jrwreni thought it would be a sun client to a sun server somewhere.15:18
jrwrenlike the Sun RAY protocol in your hand.15:18
tjagodaDon't be hating the JVM15:18
snap-lOh, more than likely15:18
tjagoda=(15:18
jrwrenhow can you not hate the JVM?15:18
snap-ltjagoda: The JVM is nice, when it isn't running Java. ;)15:19
jrwreneven then it kind of sucks, no runtime generics.15:19
jrwrenHotspot JIT is very cool though.15:19
snap-lGrr, I'm going to have to shovel15:25
jrwrenmy thunderbird profile is 9GB.15:31
rick_h_dammit, I'm going to kill someone today. There's no saving it any more15:38
_stink_i'll start taking donations for bail15:38
jrwrenrick_h_: where is your github?15:38
jrwrenI want to try that jj in my .vimrc15:38
rick_h_github.com/mitechie/15:38
rick_h_add /pyvim for the vim repo15:38
rick_h__stink_: yea, send a layer to NC15:38
_stink_*that* guy again?15:39
rick_h_yea, except now I'm being told to fix his code15:39
rick_h_he gets some stupid mysql timeout errors he can't trace15:39
rick_h_and blames my auth code that runs fine on 4 other projects15:39
rick_h_so boss sends it to me to fix, so now I have to deal with all this crap code15:40
_stink_... yikes15:40
rick_h_   # Most of the stuff below is from Rick's QMAIL project - it represents code to support15:40
rick_h_    # the CRUD of user accounts. Since my page flow didn't map well to Rick's, I've created my own15:40
rick_h_    # controller (admin.py) and template (admin/start.mako) to handle these functions.15:40
rick_h_so he comments out my working freaking code, that's 5 methods, all working15:40
tjagodaWe have a business critical web app15:40
tjagodaIt doesn't work in firefox 415:40
tjagodait doesn't work in IE 915:40
rick_h_and creates a giant 400 line single point "add, edit, displayu users" master controller15:40
tjagodaIt doesn't work in the latest version of chrome15:40
tjagoda-_-15:40
rick_h_tjagoda: heh, we have that too, our ereview system15:41
rick_h_the JS that asks "Are you sure" is ie specific to IE < 915:41
tjagodaFucking webapps15:41
_stink_rick_h_: hah.  "page flow" == "brain" in this case15:41
jrwrenmitechie... here I was googling for rick_h15:41
rick_h_no, fucking dumass devs that can't learn how to use a language without being retarded about it15:41
tjagodaEven the aesthetics don't render correctly15:41
rick_h__stink_: exactly, so how much time did he waste with this pile of shit when I GAVE him working code15:42
tjagodaWhen a sizable portion of the community does it wrong, I move on from blaming devs and instead target the entire market =P15:42
rick_h_and oh let me count the bugs...1...2...1215:42
rick_h_tjagoda: your one app == entire market?15:42
tjagodaWe also have the same issue with Covisint web apps15:43
tjagodaThey just never work in anything other than IE15:43
tjagodaand probably not in IE9 anymore either15:43
rick_h_then send them a bug and tell them to hire real web devs vs kids in high school15:43
tjagodaCovisint publishes what Chrysler makes, I think15:43
* snap-l avoids the "your first problem..." joke15:43
rick_h_or just make sure they're not kids in high school15:43
tjagodasnap-l should know15:44
tjagodahe's the chrysler insider =P15:44
rick_h_yea, I've seen chrylsers shit15:44
tjagodaMaybe I should revise my statement to say "Fucking automotive webapps"15:44
snap-ltjagoda: ding ding ding15:44
rick_h_they can't get a single header worth of CSS to be cross browser and that's with one image and two links15:45
snap-ltjagoda: You only have to test one browser, and that's IE615:45
snap-leverything else be damned.15:45
tjagodaI hate this market so much15:45
tjagodaEverything is done for the minimum cost15:45
tjagodaWhich is real fun for IT, the HUGE COST CENTER15:45
snap-ltjagoda: Yeah, it's all IT"s fauly.15:45
snap-lfault, even15:45
tjagodaI mean, I understand why they only dev to one browser15:46
tjagodabecause their managers cut off all the funding to do more than one15:46
tjagodabut that does not make me hate them any less15:46
jrwrenjj is gonna take some getting used to. I'm an esc basher.15:46
_stink_same here15:46
_stink_i haven't tried jj yet15:46
rick_h_jrwren: yea, give it a couple of days though15:47
snap-lI can't get away from the escape key15:48
snap-lSorry, but I've dismissed otherwise good keyboards because the escape key felt like a mushy calculator button15:48
tjagodaHave I complained about the keyboard on my new HP laptop yet?15:49
tjagodaIt is easy to type on15:49
tjagodabut it bounces15:49
tjagodathe rest fo this EliteBook 8740w is built like a rock15:49
tjagodabut the keyboard flexes15:49
snap-lFriend brought over the new Chrysler-issued laptops15:49
tjagoda-_-15:49
snap-lOh.My.God.They.Are.Shit.15:49
tjagodaWhat are they?15:50
snap-lHP ProBook15:50
snap-llocked down beyond belief15:50
tjagodaI bought one ProBook15:50
snap-lwith a runway of lights on the front15:50
tjagodaThey are so flimsy15:50
tjagodaso much flex15:51
slestakanyone know if thre is gonna be a beta 3 before golive?15:51
tjagodaI'd doubt there's time15:51
snap-lslestak: Not sure15:51
tjagodaBeta2 is still open, yes?15:51
snap-lI thought this one wasn't getting a release candidate, though15:51
tjagodaYou are correct15:51
snap-ltjagoda: Beta 2 was released.15:51
tjagodaThat's what beta2 is15:51
slestaki would consider my bug from the weekend a showstopper15:51
slestakrepeatable.15:52
tjagodaThere are still a lot of big bugs15:52
snap-lslestak: Repeatable on other hardware?15:52
tjagoda3d screensavers still kill X11 for me15:52
tjagodaand I found a plethora of bug reports from multiple people describing the same bug15:52
tjagodaThey even said they patched it in the last beta, but they did not =(15:52
slestakwell, cant say for that.  repeatable on this hardware, when other releases of ubunto and distros are an easy install15:52
slestaki have had this setup for years and have had prob 5 distros on this machine15:53
snap-lslestak: See if you can get some other hardware to do the same bug15:53
tjagodaSlestak sounds like he's in my boat15:53
snap-lif so, then you've got a showstopper15:53
tjagodaSolid ubuntu since 200915:53
slestaki dont have anything I can use, i will try15:53
tjagodaBut no longer15:53
slestakanyoen have a dual boot setup?15:53
tjagodawhats your bug?15:53
snap-lslestak: Unfortunately, no15:53
slestaklemme get teh number15:53
tjagodaIs it impossible to install two versions of IE side by side?15:54
slestak76315515:54
slestakwhat is wierd, is this only showed itself on "reinstall".  not on first install15:54
snap-ltjagoda: I think it's possible to have two versions of IE15:54
slestakI used option 3 to choose partitions myself all times15:54
snap-lbut NFC how to do it15:54
jrwrenEliteBook is nice, bummer to hear about the KB15:55
slestakthe first install succedded (but was not usable for Unity issues).  on first install I also tried booting with /home preserved from Mint Debian install15:55
slestakreinstall was wiping /home and starting fresh15:55
slestakafter that first install, no other installes of beta2 would succeed.15:56
slestaki should try beta115:56
slestaksee if it is a regression15:56
snap-lAnd now for a conference call. Wooot15:57
tjagodaAnd now I reboot to remove IE915:57
brouschdarnit. what's the vim command for delete the current line?17:42
greg-gdd17:43
brouschawesome. greg-g you win a cookie17:43
greg-gyay!17:47
snap-lTaking some lunch time to make another Club Metal Episode17:54
snap-laka: Music to have kinky sex by17:54
tjagodaOh my17:54
tjagodaRemember17:54
tjagodathat shit is now logged17:54
tjagoda=P17:54
gamerchick02wow.17:55
snap-lbah17:56
brouschnot that there's anything wrong with kinky sex17:56
snap-lFunny enough, if I stick to my original release date, it'll release the Friday of Penguicon. :)17:57
gamerchick02hehe, cool.17:57
greg-gis Penguicon supposed to be related to kinky sex somehow?17:57
greg-g:P17:57
snap-lgreg-g: You tell me. ;)17:58
greg-glol17:58
rick_h__hmm, is it supposed to? or is it anyway18:01
_stink_this is the closest #ubuntu-us-mi will get to a locker room.18:02
* brousch forgot his towel18:02
greg-gawww man!18:02
brouschlemme use your cookie18:03
gamerchick02if it's a locker room, i'm in the wrong one.18:03
rick_h__heh, "family locker room" like those family bathrooms18:04
tjagodaIt's like the starship troopers locker room.18:07
tjagoda=P18:07
gamerchick02http://www.jumbojoke.com/the_worst_ethnic_joke_ever_told.html18:08
* gamerchick02 loves bad jokes18:09
gamerchick02and contrary to the title, it's not really ethnic. more of a pun.18:09
greg-glolz18:09
wolfgerall the same, i don't want that URL popping up in my work laptop's browser history :-p18:12
gamerchick02good point.18:12
wolfgerso how is everybody this fine snowy day?18:13
tjagodalol18:13
wolfgerlooks like the snow has finally stopped falling18:14
wolfgerLet the melting commence! And another round of muddy pawprints all through the house :-p18:15
tjagodaSolution: do not let the dog outside18:16
tjagodaInstead, clean up far more localized poop and urine stains18:16
wolfgernote to self: do not let tjagoda come up with solutions18:23
tjagoda=(18:25
_stink_hah18:25
gamerchick02it's stopped snowing here.18:29
greg-grick_h__: http://www.serverwatch.com/tutorials/article.php/3931076/Get-More-Out-of-Git-Use-Gist-With-Vim.htm18:34
rick_h__greg-g: heh, http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2423#4.9 was just in my rss feed to follow up with19:05
rick_h__I had the plugin before, but it was very limited and  had some bugs19:05
rick_h__seen it's been updated recently so want to try it again19:05
slestakanyone know any pythonistas that need a gig in a2?19:32
slestaki have a solid lead, involved embedded stuff, twisted, and gtk19:33
rick_h__embedded python?19:34
rick_h__or just embedded C along with python for gui/etc?19:35
PainBanktwisted and gtk... oh sounds fun.19:35
slestakc for microcontrollers,19:36
slestakhere is the link.  i know a guy that already works there.  he asked me if I had any python friends lookign for work.19:38
slestakhttp://www.reddit.com/r/forhire/comments/gbxss/hiring_build_robots_with_python_seriously_mi_or_mn/19:38
rick_h__cool19:39
slestaki think they are lookign for junior dev so those of us w mortgages need not apply :)19:41
snap-lhttp://braiker.tumblr.com/post/4710736472/tina-feys-prayer-for-her-daughter19:56
rick_h__http://blog.mitechie.com/2011/04/18/first-bookie-sprint-good-friday/20:52
rick_h__come one come all...20:52
rick_h__I'll settle for some20:52
rick_h__:P20:52
snap-lhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPEvNSlYdf420:52
greg-grick_h__: retweeted20:54
rick_h__ty kind sir20:54
rick_h__going to be low key, but wth...first of many right? :)20:54
ColonelPanic001rick_h__: you hold an event like that on a... wait, that's a holiday20:54
* ColonelPanic001 checks to see if he has that off20:54
rick_h__rgr20:54
rick_h__that's the point, I can use day care for the kid and wife has to work so might as well hack20:55
ColonelPanic001_stink_ told me a little about bookie, sounds great - I kind of always wished a open alternative would come up20:55
_stink_ColonelPanic001: we don't have that day off20:55
_stink_i took it off20:55
ColonelPanic001ah, k20:56
ColonelPanic001I suspected we might not, being that it's religious20:56
_stink_Labor day is also religious20:56
ColonelPanic001:P20:57
ColonelPanic001I'm a dirty heathen and shall be working on the Good day20:57
_stink_yes20:58
rick_h__that's ok, suppose you're better off than the guy that takes advantage of getting the day off for holy reasons...and plans a party instead20:59
jrmyhello21:00
jrmyanyone recognize me?21:00
_stink_Mom?21:00
jrmylol21:00
jrmyno21:00
jrmywell its been awhile since i was on this channel21:01
jrmymaybe half a year..21:01
jrmyprobably longer21:01
jrmydecided to use my old computer with linux on it again seeing as my laptop broke21:01
jrmytry playing some emulators or somethin..21:02
jrmyi need to fix my sound issue though21:02
jrmyi followed a link for updating alsa.. idk if it will work but i swear that before you could simply select your audio devices. must of been on ubuntu though and not xubuntu which btw im using 10.04 or lucid i think its called21:04
_stink_the pulseaudio applet lets you do that.21:04
jrmyhow do i run the program?21:04
_stink_or pavucontrol21:05
_stink_if you apt-get install pavucontrol21:05
jrmyi believe pulseaudio is installed21:05
_stink_it is.21:05
_stink_for pavucontrol,21:05
_stink_apt-get install pavucontrol21:05
jrmywell i'll do that when i finish updating the alsa driver21:06
jrmyand im only at 48% so its gonna be awhile21:06
jrmythats a name ive never seen21:24
jrmyso anyways has the channel gotten bigger in terms of getting more users?21:24
snap-lhard to tell21:25
snap-lsome folks come, some folks go21:25
jrmyhey snap-l21:25
snap-lhowdy.21:25
jrmylol liek me for instance21:25
snap-lexactly. ;)21:25
jrmylooks like alot of the peopel i met before are still here21:27
jrmyisnt penguincon happening soon?21:28
jrmyor however its spelled again21:28
snap-lYeah, it's at the end of this month21:28
jrmyyep.. more then likely not attending21:28
jrmydefinitely low on money currently21:29
jrmyreminds me.. did we ever have a picnic for our states group?21:30
jrmygeeknic.. thats what its called21:30
jrmylol never did go to my cities weekly get togethers either21:31
slestaknot just bigger in numbers, we've also gained weight and lost hair21:44
snap-lSpeak for yourself21:45
snap-land not for me.21:45
* snap-l notices less hair, and more weight21:45
slestaki didnt lose hair, it just relocated21:46
jrmylol21:46
snap-lYeah, mine seems to be going south21:46
snap-lfrom the top of my head to out my nose and ears.21:47
snap-lIF the trend continues, I might actually be able to grow that neckbeard I've always wanted.21:47
slestaksomeone in my wow guild was bragging about his "hair down to his butt" and I wanted to comment that my butthair is down to my ankles21:47
snap-lnice. :)21:49
jrmylol21:49
slestakany other WoW ppl in the house?21:49
jrmyi played it once on a private server21:50
snap-lI've successfully avoided that timesink by replacing it with other timesinks.21:50
slestakit is def a timesink21:50
snap-lWow, no more snow on the ground21:50
jrmymy timesink is minecraft21:50
snap-lThat's amazing21:51
snap-lwent from Christmas morning to early spring in a manner of hours.21:51
jrmylol yep21:51
snap-lThe hardest part of podcasting: Pacing releases.21:52
snap-lI've got two episodes for http://openmetalcast.com ready to go21:52
snap-land hopefully an interview tomorrow with Cloudkicker21:52
slestaki was looking into that based on Fabians love for the game on LO21:52
jrmyoh yeah metal is liked by users of this channel21:53
slestakadd kicked in and i drifted off though.  is minecraft really good?21:53
jrmyslestak: its rather addicting21:53
jrmyits still in beta though21:54
jrmybut cheaper so might as well buy it now21:54
jrmyalso works on mac and linux which is nice21:54
slestakis it a puzzle game or what is its model?21:55
slestakempire building?21:55
snap-lvirtual legos, afaict.21:55
jrmywell i dont know how to explain it21:55
slestakdid you all see there is a new humble indie bundle?21:56
snap-lyep, bought it day of release21:56
snap-lMentioned it at MUG as well21:56
slestakgood games?  i havent gotten it yet21:56
snap-lI like the Shadowgrounds games.21:56
jrmywhat now?21:56
snap-lhumblebundle.com21:57
snap-lTrine is a little frustrating for me because I suck at platformer games.21:58
snap-lI have Super Mario Deficiency.21:59
jrmylol21:59
jrmynot me.. but i found the game boring when i tried a demo on my ps321:59
snap-lWell, the other two come highly recommended22:00
jrmywhen i put in a command and it makes the next line blank that means its processing right?22:03
snap-lor it's waiting for more input22:03
snap-lie: from stdin22:03
jrmyi used the wrong characters.. thats why22:05
jrmyi thought it was ' and not `22:05

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