[12:00] <dholbach> hey
[12:00] <popey> ola
[12:01] <Technoviking> hello
[12:01] <dholbach> I pinged mako, mdke, pleia2 and sabdfl too, but I'm not sure who of them can show up today
[12:02] <popey> persia?
[12:02] <dholbach> has continued internet problems
[12:02] <popey> ok
[12:02] <dholbach> ok, let's start then
[12:02] <dholbach> #startmeeting
[12:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 06:02. The chair is dholbach.
[12:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[12:03] <dholbach> [topic] state of sounder@
[12:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  state of sounder@
[12:03] <lifeless> ok, not the asiapac meeting ;)
[12:03] <popey> ok, this is mine
[12:03] <popey> I sent a proposal to the sounder list to have it shutdown and asked for feedback
[12:03] <popey> feedback can be seen here:- http://paste.ubuntu.com/595921/
[12:03] <popey> along with a short prologue
[12:04] <dholbach> thanks for driving this, popey
[12:04] <popey> now, there were a couple of comments on the list that 11 UTC is inconvenient for some list members to attend this meeting
[12:05] <popey> so I didn't put a time on the wiki, so we could potentially  discuss at both so more can attend
[12:05] <dholbach> I think that's reasonable
[12:05] <popey> The overall feeling seems to be "don't shut it down"
[12:05] <dholbach> [agreed] leave sounder@ item on the agenda for next CC meeting (3rd May)
[12:05] <MootBot> AGREED received:  leave sounder@ item on the agenda for next CC meeting (3rd May)
[12:05] <dholbach> hello sabdfl
[12:05] <popey> hi sabdfl
[12:05] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/595921/ for sabdfl
[12:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/595921/ for sabdfl
[12:05] <sabdfl> howdy
[12:06] <popey> Samuel did some analysis of the most recent ~20 posts to the list to see if my assertion that people seem to use it for arguing the moral toss held up
[12:06] <sabdfl> the moral toss?
[12:06] <popey> most threads seem civil, but a few push the boundaries quite a bit (religion/politics mostly)
[12:07] <dholbach> if you want to do an analysis I doubt that the last ~20 posts are indicative
[12:07] <popey> sorry, discussing stuff which seems to mostly result from personal opinion
[12:07] <dholbach> it'd be much more interesting to revisit the lists early beginnings and see how it evolved from there
[12:07] <popey> not really related to ubuntu
[12:07] <popey> well, it's certainly had a bit of a rollercoaster
[12:08] <popey> periods of intensive developer discussion, quiet periods in 2008, then more active over the last year or so
[12:09] <popey> The list has 396 subscribers as of today.
[12:09] <popey> of those I think about 10 are set to nomail
[12:09] <popey> and according to Samuels analysis, about 20-25 people actively contribute to the list.
[12:10] <sabdfl> i don't buy the argument that folk who have ubuntu in *common* also need a place to discuss things they almost certainly *don't*, like politics and religion
[12:10] <dholbach> unfortunately have we heard a number of complaints about the tone and long periods of irrelevance of the content of the list
[12:10] <sabdfl> both are important human subjects, but i don't see that the Ubuntu project can or should provide an effective forum
[12:10] <sabdfl> i don't buy the safety valve argument
[12:10] <dholbach> I unsubscribed some months ago when the quality of discussions was dwindling
[12:11] <sabdfl> i think this idea leads to a pressure cooker instead, where folks feel that Ubuntu has to take care of all aspects of their lives, and they end up becoming caged animals
[12:11] <popey> very few ubuntu developers actually take part in conversations there dholbach
[12:12] <sabdfl> i think it would be perfectly acceptable to say "look, the ubuntu project is about delivering high quality free software to the world on a particular set of terms, we'll keep all lists / forums / channels / sites focused on that, and trust people find other outlets for their other interests"
[12:12] <sabdfl> in fact, i think that's healthier
[12:12] <sabdfl> we are what we are. we are not what we are not.
[12:12] <sabdfl> we are not, for example, a proxy for "everything some people do online"
[12:12] <sabdfl> even if we are most of what *I* do online :-)
[12:14] <dholbach> I think it's interesting to note that very few people seem to use the list in the way it was created back then - and it seems like there's nobody interested in bringing it back to that state, so no "governance" of the list
[12:14] <sabdfl> agreed
[12:15] <jussi> Just one thing that I mentioned to popey, if you do decide to close it, give a few suggestions of places people might go to replace it, rather than have people join other devolment or user lists to sound off.
[12:15] <sabdfl> are there any CC who feel the case for keeping the list warrants discussion
[12:15] <Technoviking> I was disappointed about the amount of complaining about the list being shutdown, but no solutions given by the group
[12:15] <sabdfl> jussi: good point, but i think a number of those places should be "not in Ubuntu", i.e., politics and religion have their own forums
[12:15] <sabdfl> Technoviking: this is normal, it's a backwater
[12:16] <jussi> sabdfl: exactly :)
[12:16] <dholbach> Technoviking, and it seems like nobody's here who participates in the discussions on the list
[12:16] <popey> I try to participate but back off when it gets all unsavoury.
[12:16] <dholbach> jussi, how about "your friends in a bar"?
[12:16] <sabdfl> dholbach: friends don't let friends drink and argue politics :-)
[12:16] <dholbach> I personally don't think Ubuntu needs a place to discuss "everything and nothing" :)
[12:16] <popey> e.g. fixing peoples misconceptions of stuff
[12:16] <dholbach> sabdfl, yes, good friends :)
[12:17] <sabdfl> ok. we raise the quality of the project by being definitive about what doesn't fit
[12:17] <Daviey> If the list was producing good debate, 'sounding new ideas' then it has a place.  I can't think of a single change that the discussion on the list has achieved.
[12:17] <sabdfl> no responses yet to "are there any CC who feel the case for keeping the list warrants discussion", can we poll the CC on a motion to shut it down?
[12:18] <sabdfl> i don't think btw we're shutting it down in anger, it's served its purpose, it's just time to prune
[12:18] <popey> note that some of the CC is not available right now of course
[12:18] <sabdfl> we have no effective governance for it, nor real reason to create that, nor volunteers
[12:18] <popey> and this time may be difficult for members of the list to be here
[12:19] <dholbach> sabdfl, I agree with that sentiment - maybe we should just give folks a chance to bring ideas to the next CC meeting (some said the timing of the meeting was bad for them)?
[12:19] <popey> so the members of the list will feel unrepresented
[12:19] <sabdfl> we can reopen the question if CC members who were not able to attend have objections
[12:19] <popey> sabdfl: before you arrived I suggested we discuss this at 11 and 21 meeting to cover both ends of the day
[12:19] <sabdfl> popey: i jsut got off a call with a person in New Zealand, so we cover EST -> New Zealand, we're good
[12:19] <popey> ok.
[12:19] <sabdfl> our community is too big now to agonize over this
[12:20] <sabdfl> we're showing signs of paralysis through scale
[12:20] <Technoviking> i think if the sounder folks felt strongly about it, surely one person out of 25 could attend irc neeting at an inconvient time
[12:20] <sabdfl> i think we can reasonably make a decision on this which could get challenged and reviewed by email
[12:20] <sabdfl> exactly
[12:20] <sabdfl> i'm worried we're falling into the trap of over-consultation on an increasingly-complex landscape, which will paralyze us
[12:21] <dholbach> ok, I agree - on second thought, the call for ideas was sent out a few days ago, so there actually was enough time
[12:21] <sabdfl> more than
[12:21] <sabdfl> i think popey has lead the call for a change admirably openly and fairly
[12:21] <sabdfl> (thank you and well done popey)
[12:21] <popey> ta
[12:21] <jussi> seems correct, peoples thoughts could easily have gone to the email list if they really wanted a say.
[12:21] <Technoviking> and he has taken an unfair beating for it
[12:22] <sabdfl> so, can we poll CC on a motion to prune the list and (per Jussi) direct conversations elsewhere in Ubuntu, as well as being clear that Ubuntu is *not* going to provide a forum for "anything goes" and "deliberately offtopic" mailing list traffic?
[12:22] <Technoviking> Ubuntu should build  communities not private playgrounds
[12:23] <sabdfl> agreed, good meme that
[12:23] <dholbach> hum, let me check how to drive the poll irc thing
[12:23] <sabdfl> this is a place to get stuff done, not make room for idle hands
[12:24] <dholbach> [VOTE] Shall sounder@lists.ubuntu.com be pruned and (per Jussi) direct conversations elsewhere in Ubuntu, as well as being clear that Ubuntu is *not* going to provide a forum for "anything goes" and "deliberately offtopic" mailing list traffic?
[12:24] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall sounder@lists.ubuntu.com be pruned and (per Jussi) direct conversations elsewhere in Ubuntu, as well as being clear that Ubuntu is *not* going to provide a forum for "anything goes" and "deliberately offtopic" mailing list traffic?.
[12:24] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[12:24] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[12:25] <dholbach> hum... that's not very clear now, is it?
[12:26] <sabdfl> +1
[12:26] <MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[12:26] <MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 2 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[12:26] <dholbach> shall we make that a poll about just sounder? and then discuss "being clear about 'anything goes' discussions" separately?
[12:27] <dholbach> I mean I'm in favour of both :)
[12:27] <dholbach> +1
[12:27] <MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[12:27] <popey> +1
[12:27] <MootBot> +1 received from popey. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[12:27] <Technoviking> +1
[12:27] <MootBot> +1 received from Technoviking. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[12:27] <dholbach> #endvote
[12:27] <dholbach> [endvote]
[12:27] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
[12:27] <popey> how did we get 5 when there's only 4 of us here?
[12:27] <dholbach> oh, there was a private vote?
[12:27] <czajkowski> my bad
[12:28] <Daviey> someone msg'd the bot.
[12:28] <czajkowski> I voted
[12:28] <dholbach> haha
[12:28] <dholbach> ok
[12:28] <czajkowski> fogot it was just CC
[12:28] <dholbach> for the record: it's 4 out of 4 :)
[12:28] <Technoviking> heh
[12:28] <czajkowski> and you didnt mute channel like we do for LC to stop that happening
[12:28] <czajkowski> sorry
[12:28] <dholbach> I'll take an action item to draft something
[12:28] <czajkowski> sorry dholbach/cc
[12:28] <popey> muting wouldnt have fixed you privately messaging the bot
[12:28] <dholbach> [action] dholbach to draft an announcement
[12:28] <MootBot> ACTION received:  dholbach to draft an announcement
[12:28] <dholbach> I think that concludes the discussion of this item - popey: anything more?
[12:28] <popey> nope
[12:28] <dholbach> [topic] Any other business?
[12:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
[12:29] <dholbach> Who wants to chair next time? Who wants to update the team report?
[12:29] <sabdfl> i can write up this decision for the team report, with pleasure
[12:29] <sabdfl> url?
[12:29] <Technoviking> I will chair the next meeting
[12:30] <dholbach> sabdfl, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReports/11/April
[12:30] <dholbach> thanks sabdfl, thanks Technoviking
[12:30] <dholbach> Technoviking, popey, sabdfl: what did you think about the idea to use a google doc to track all our open discussion items?
[12:30] <Technoviking> np
[12:30] <popey> happy to use anything really
[12:30] <sabdfl> dholbach: sounds fine by me
[12:30] <popey> I dont mind what technology is used, so long as we all buy into it
[12:31] <dholbach> yes, it's high time :)
[12:31] <dholbach> ok
[12:31] <Technoviking> fine here, or etherpad if one gets setup
[12:31] <dholbach> that's all from me :)
[12:31] <dholbach> thanks everyone
[12:31] <dholbach> #endmeeting
[12:31] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:31.
[12:32] <sabdfl> cheers all
[12:32] <Technoviking> thanks
[12:32] <popey> thanks!
[12:32] <jussi> :)
[12:34] <sabdfl> thanks popey
[12:35] <sabdfl> one thing  - jussi - i suspect we have other offtopic / ungoverned fora in the IRC world?
[12:35] <sabdfl> we may need to consider applying a similar pruning principle
[12:35] <sabdfl> previously, i was ok with "red light districts"
[12:35] <sabdfl> i'm still ok with them, just not under ubuntu-*
[12:35] <popey> we have -offtopic
[12:36] <sabdfl> if it's governed, that may be ok
[12:36] <popey> but we still have stuff that's "offtopic for offtopic"
[12:36] <popey> !o4o
[12:36] <jussi> sabdfl: -offtopic is fairly ok though
[12:36] <sabdfl> ok
[12:36] <popey> People on sounder seem to feel it's "no holds barred, anything goes"
[12:36] <jussi> Its the other non namespace channel that has our name that worries me.
[12:36] <sabdfl> i think the framework of "offtopic and ungoverned" is reasonable as a basis for drawing the line
[12:36] <sabdfl> that's what i wrote in the TeamReport
[12:36] <sabdfl> other non-namespace channel?
[12:37] <jussi> sabdfl: on freenode, we dont control ##channels.
[12:37] <jussi> Im fairly sure you remember the situation with ##club-ubuntu.
[12:37] <Technoviking> we also have The Community Cafe on the forums
[12:38] <mc44> Ironically, Offtopic for offtopic was much stronger before the community council interfered
[12:38] <mc44> The topics were banned
[12:38] <Technoviking> but we keep it fairly clean off trollish topics
[12:40] <jussi> However, within the namespace we have kept it fairly nice.
[12:41] <sabdfl> right
[12:41] <sabdfl> ok
[12:41] <sabdfl> so far, so good
[12:41] <sabdfl> cheers all!
[14:18] <sladen> meh, missed it
[16:51] <kirkland> Daviey: smoser: RoAkSoAx: jamespage: zul: hallyn: robbiew: SpamapS: could i swap meeting scribe with one of you guys today?  I'm sprinting in Montreal and kind of tied up at the moment
[16:56] <smoser> kirkland, ok. if no one else.
[16:56] <kirkland> smoser: thanks much
[16:59] <SpamapS> smoser: ^5, you have earned yourself 1 turkish beer sir. :)
[16:59]  * SpamapS always appreciate it when somebody other than him chairs. ;)
[17:00]  * smb wonders whether anybody wants turkish beer
[17:01] <dholbach> . o O { ignorant! }
[17:02] <smoser> ok. lets start meeting. let me find links.
[17:02] <smoser> #startmeeting
[17:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:02. The chair is smoser.
[17:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:02] <RoAkSoAx> o/
[17:02] <smb> \o
[17:02] <zul> hi
[17:02] <Daviey> o/
[17:03] <Daviey> Who do we have so far?
[17:03] <jamespage> o/
[17:03] <SpamapS> \o/
[17:03] <smoser> o./
[17:03] <zul> SpamapS: turkish beer any good?
[17:03] <hallyn> \o
[17:03] <SpamapS> zul: certainly not as good as turkish delight
[17:03] <zul> O$
[17:04] <Daviey> smoser, kicking off?
[17:04] <smoser> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[17:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[17:04] <smoser> no action points from previous meeting apparently (per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20110412)
[17:05] <smoser> [TOPIC] Natty Development
[17:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Natty Development
[17:05] <Daviey> Hello o/
[17:05] <Daviey> We now have beta 2 firmly out of the door, and the incomming bug count is promising low.  The burn down for final work items is looking on target:
[17:05] <Daviey> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server.html
[17:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-server.html
[17:05] <Daviey> The bugs i can currently tracking for Natty release are:
[17:05] <Daviey>  == Bugs for the server team ==
[17:05] <Daviey> [655533] [likewise-open] [master] package likewise-open 5.4.0.42111-2ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1 (http://pad.lv/655533)
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Bug Status: Confirmed
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Not assigned to anyone :(
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-18
[17:06] <Daviey> [726769] [eucalyptus] package eucalyptus-common 2.0.1 bzr1255-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1 (http://pad.lv/726769)
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Bug Status: Confirmed
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Assigned to: Dave Walker
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-18
[17:06] <Daviey> [745946] [cloud-init] cloud-final job did not run in ec2-automated-tests (http://pad.lv/745946)
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Bug Status: Confirmed
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Not assigned to anyone :(
[17:06] <hallyn> isn't that one thought to be fixed?
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-18
[17:06] <Daviey> [759943] [mod-wsgi] mod_wsgi.so-3.2 gives errors (http://pad.lv/759943)
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Bug Status: In Progress
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Assigned to: James Page
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-19
[17:06] <Daviey>  
[17:06] <hallyn> sorry, lag
[17:06] <Daviey>  == Bugs being worked on in other areas ==
[17:06] <Daviey> [728088] [debian-installer] iscsi root with or without auth fails to boot (http://pad.lv/728088)
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Bug Status: Confirmed
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Assigned to: Colin Watson
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-14
[17:06] <Daviey> [747090] [linux] wrong return address sometimes pushed for INT in kvm (not qemu) (http://pad.lv/747090)
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Bug Status: Fix Committed
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Assigned to: Andy Whitcroft
[17:06] <Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-18
[17:06] <Daviey> [566818] [plymouth] Cryptsetup passphrase prompt during boot: every character typed repeats the prompt (http://pad.lv/566818)
[17:07] <Daviey>  * Bug Status: Confirmed
[17:07] <Daviey>  * Assigned to: Surbhi Palande
[17:07] <Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-18
[17:07] <smoser> Daviey, pastebin ?
[17:07] <Daviey> [580319] [upstart] dhcp3-server launches before upstart brings all interface, thus failing to start (http://pad.lv/580319)
[17:07] <smoser> seriously
[17:07] <Daviey>  * Bug Status: Triaged
[17:07] <Daviey>  * Assigned to: James Hunt
[17:07] <Daviey>  * Last updated: 2011-04-18
[17:07] <Daviey> [759545] [g
[17:07] <Daviey> smoser, regarding bug [745946]
[17:07] <smoser> someone kick that guy
[17:07] <zul> arrrrgh pastebin
[17:07] <Daviey> smoser, regarding bug 745946... jamespage mentioned that he had not seen it in b2 round of testing... Do you think it's a bug with the AWS infrastructure rather than our platform?
[17:08] <smoser> i do not think it is aws infrastructure.
[17:08] <Daviey> smoser, pastebin isn't ideal for historical retention :)
[17:08] <smoser> and somehow a link to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2011-April/005606.html
[17:08] <smoser> would have also been unsatisfactory ?
[17:08] <Daviey> smoser, that is not up to date.
[17:08] <smoser> well... anyway.
[17:08] <zul> Daviey: you were the last one to comment about the likewise-open bug (last time i checked )are you going to upload it?
[17:09] <Daviey> zul, still investigating that one.
[17:09] <smoser> regarding that bug. i marked bug 760725 as a duplicate of it.
[17:09] <SpamapS> I took a look at the likewise open situation as well and its very unclear what the actual issue is.
[17:09] <smoser> i think that we should review this list
[17:09] <Daviey> smoser, oh?
[17:10] <smoser> but i think that multiple concurrent conversations will not fair well
[17:11] <Daviey> smoser, Essentially, the ones on the list are pretty currently updated.
[17:11] <smoser> i suspect that the root cause of the cloud-init bug above is a race condition on boot.
[17:11] <Daviey> smoser, Okay, do you have an idea how to reproduce it?
[17:11] <smoser> it could also be a timeout/failure of a network failure
[17:12] <Daviey> smoser, I am kinda confused why we didn't see it with b2 tests?
[17:12] <smoser> Daviey, i do not. that does not, unfortunately, mean it does not exist.
[17:12] <smoser> Daviey, we did see it.
[17:12] <smoser> we just opened a new bug.
[17:12] <jamespage> Daviey: smoser and I discussed earlier - we saw something v similar in b2 testing - bug 760725
[17:12] <smoser> read bug 745946, which i duped to it.
[17:12] <Daviey> jamespage, ah!
[17:13] <Daviey> Okay, i suggest we take that bug discussion out of band after the meeting.
[17:13] <jamespage> they looked a little different but we believe they are the same thing.
[17:13] <jamespage> Daviey: ack
[17:13] <Daviey> Are there any other bugs which we should consider for natty release?
[17:13] <Daviey> anyone?
[17:13] <smoser> hold on...
[17:14]  * Daviey holds.
[17:14] <SpamapS> Daviey: there's some new upstart bugs that have come to light
[17:14] <smoser> bug 751057
[17:14] <SpamapS> Daviey: they're not on our plate, but they do need to get fixed. I've just now pinged skaet with them
[17:14] <Daviey> SpamapS, have the numbers handy?
[17:14] <smoser> shoudl probably be looked at... and i wouldn't mind one other fix to that area of things.
[17:15] <SpamapS> yeeeeess.... bug 728531 and bug 766206
[17:15] <smoser> then, there was the grub upgrade prompt from maverick to natty
[17:16] <Daviey> smoser, Regarding 751057 - have you spoken to anyone in foundations about it?
[17:17] <smoser> Daviey, no. i have to look at it more.
[17:17] <Daviey> smoser, okay, thanks..  and thanks SpamapS for them bugs... Now tracking them..   Any others from anyone else?
[17:18] <smoser> bug 759545 is the other one
[17:18] <smoser> ah. but i see stgraber assigned that to himself 1 hour ago
[17:18] <Daviey> smoser, that is on my list, no?
[17:19] <smoser> here i have to admit to tuning out during the flood
[17:19] <smoser> :)
[17:19] <Daviey> Okay, i am done... If anyone seens any other bugs that are suitable for natty release - please let me know.. kkthnxbye.
[17:20] <smoser> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
[17:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
[17:20] <zul> gold prospecting in california next week
[17:21] <smoser> zul and smoser will be at openstack summit next week (https://launchpad.net/sprints/ods-d)
[17:21] <jamespage> Puppetcamp Europe in Amsterdam next Thur/Fri for me.
[17:21] <Daviey> Not strictly server related, but i will be at the London (UK) Natty release party on the 28th - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-April/029427.html
[17:22] <Daviey> (others welcome)
[17:23] <smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[17:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[17:24] <hggdh> no news from me, except Euca now works
[17:24] <smoser> woot!
[17:24] <hggdh> And I do not know why/how :-(
[17:24] <ttx> hggdh: cool :)
[17:24] <smoser> and you can even upload kernels!
[17:24] <hggdh> LOL
[17:25] <smoser> anything else ?
[17:25] <hggdh> ..
[17:25] <Daviey> hggdh, because i sprinkled it with some fairy dust.
[17:25] <ttx> hggdh: everything is in the dance. As soon as you find it...
[17:25] <hggdh> Daviey: ah, the brit's magic
[17:25]  * smoser practices his famed eucadance
[17:25] <Daviey> no, it was from the clouds.
[17:25] <zul> hggdh:  has your brain explodeded yet?
[17:26] <Daviey> hggdh, Are there other areas that are of concern to you?
[17:26] <hggdh> zul: no, it melted :-)
[17:26] <Daviey> Did you have a chance to test other aspects?
[17:26] <hggdh> Daviey: right now no, fortunately
[17:26] <Daviey> hggdh, \o/
[17:26] <hggdh> I did, but could not reproduce
[17:26] <hggdh> still trying to break it ;-)
[17:26] <Daviey> hggdh / jamespage: Is there any news on jenkins email reports of failure?
[17:27] <jamespage> Daviey: kinda got side-tracked on that one
[17:27] <jamespage> so no progress
[17:27] <jamespage> (unless hggdh is going to surprise me :-))
[17:27] <Daviey> jamespage, ok. is it tricky?
[17:27] <hggdh> no. I would rather leave it for discussion during UDS, I am afraid we are starting to get patches here and there, with no consolidated view
[17:27] <Daviey> hggdh, I just want to get a full inbox when a test case fails :)
[17:28] <hggdh> oh, I can provide you with a full inbox easily
[17:28] <Daviey> \o/
[17:28] <smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
[17:28] <Daviey> hggdh, can that be an action? :)
[17:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
[17:28] <smb> SMBunny proudly presents:
[17:28] <smb> * http://people.canonical.com/~smb/lucid-ec2-ng
[17:28] <smb> * git://kernel.ubuntu.com/smb/ubuntu-lucid.git ec2-next
[17:28] <smb> ---
[17:28] <smb> After a few weeks and about 90 patches later, it still/again compiles
[17:28] <smb> and even boots (unfortunately it does not make coffee and still hangs
[17:29] <smb> when trying to install java on a i386 t1.micro).
[17:29] <smb> ---
[17:29] <hggdh> Daviey: yeah
[17:29] <smoser> hoops . sorry. i cut Daviey/hggdh off.
[17:29] <smb> Anyway, due to many changes, some preliminary beating could be of advantage.
[17:30] <smb> That would be all... :)
[17:30] <smoser> smb, bummer on the java/t1.micro
[17:30] <Daviey> smb, Hmm.. is there some exciting changes? :)
[17:30] <smoser> i have probably asked before, but have you compared our source /config to amazon's kernels ?
[17:30] <smb> smoser, as it seems to be no problem if you got a recent os outside, I did not expect much there
[17:31] <smoser> a recent xen hypervisor, you mean.
[17:31] <smb> smoser, it seems more dom0 related as centos 5.5 and xen 3.0.2 works as well as 5.5 and 3.4.3
[17:32] <Daviey> smb, When are we expecting the next natty kernel upload, 0-day?
[17:33] <smb> I don't think there has been the feeling it needs to be 0-day, but around 1 week later or so
[17:33] <smb> smoser, Oh and about amazon kernels. No, I did not really know where to get the sources from
[17:33] <Daviey> smb, okay with me :).
[17:34] <smoser> [ACTION] smoser will point smb at amazon kernels
[17:34] <MootBot> ACTION received:  smoser will point smb at amazon kernels
[17:34] <smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
[17:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
[17:34] <smoser> what do we do here?
[17:34] <Daviey> We talk about the lack of docs we have been doing.
[17:34] <Daviey> Has anyone touched docs in the last week?
[17:34] <Daviey> (/me hasn't)
[17:35]  * zul giggles
[17:35] <jamespage> nope
[17:35] <Daviey> We really, really do need to look at them this week.
[17:36] <hallyn> once more: url
[17:36] <hallyn> (+ action)
[17:36] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey: it was suggested to removed this topic until we find another who can take care of it
[17:36] <RoAkSoAx> but everybody pretty much ignored the discussion :)
[17:36] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx, sadly, we just will not for the short term.
[17:37] <hallyn> so when we find things to fix, where to we send the fixes?
[17:37] <Daviey> hallyn, I'll post an email to ubuntu-server today about docs review
[17:37] <hallyn> thanks
[17:37] <Daviey> done.
[17:37] <smoser> [ACTION] Daviey to send message to -server regarding docs review
[17:37] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey to send message to -server regarding docs review
[17:38] <hallyn> heh
[17:38] <smoser> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
[17:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
[17:38] <smoser> no kim0
[17:39] <smoser> does anyone have anything htere?
[17:39] <smoser> here
[17:39] <smoser> moving on
[17:39] <smoser> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[17:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[17:40] <Daviey> Still time to add blueprint ideas for UDS!
[17:40] <smoser> when is the deadline for that?
[17:40] <Daviey> Has anyone had ideas not yet raised?
[17:40] <Daviey> smoser, later-ish.. but soon-ish is better-ish.
[17:41] <Daviey> Regarding the DB spec.... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase/FeatureComparison/MySQL  needs populating if it is worth our while disucssing it
[17:41] <Daviey> & https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase/FeatureComparison/NetworkMonitoring
[17:41] <robbiew> blueprints...blueprints...bluepritns
[17:41] <robbiew> server-o-blah-bloop-bleep
[17:42] <Daviey> Both are somewhat disappointing considering that active discussion on those threads.
[17:42] <robbiew> robbie.w as approver
[17:42] <Daviey> I can really see no point in us talking about MySQL or nagios  alternatives without details on the matrix.
[17:42] <hallyn> against what 'project'?
[17:42] <SpamapS> Daviey: re db spec
[17:43] <SpamapS> Colin from MontyProgram will be at UDS on Monday
[17:43] <robbiew> hallyn...uh, "ubuntu"
[17:43] <Daviey> SpamapS, on neat.
[17:43] <SpamapS> He's registered already and I'll subscribe him as an essential person for the mysql discussion
[17:43] <hallyn> thanks
[17:44] <SpamapS> I am also going to work on getting somebody from Percona to join virtually if not physically
[17:44] <Daviey> SpamapS, groovy... can you ask him to add some facts to the wiki page?
[17:44] <Daviey> SpamapS, I'd really like to go into the session better informed than i am at the moment... rather than learning during that time.
[17:44] <SpamapS> Daviey: yes I'll get Percona and MontyProgram to update that wiki. Not sure of who we could get from Oracle.
[17:45] <Daviey> SpamapS, It seems you have that action in hand!
[17:45] <SpamapS> Daviey: the water is a bit muddy in that Percona takes MontyProgram's patches and MontyProgram takes Percona's patches so there's actually very little difference.
[17:45] <smoser> done?
[17:45] <SpamapS> And then they're both starting to cherry pick from MySQL 5.6 .. we really need to decide what we want available to users.
[17:45] <zul> postgresql!
[17:46] <hallyn> se-postgresql
[17:46] <SpamapS> Drizzle ftw  ;)
[17:46] <smoser> sql is so old and lame
[17:46] <SpamapS> smoser: yes I think we've descended into single word answers.. quick before it gets dirty
[17:46] <smoser> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
[17:46] <MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
[17:47] <SpamapS> Forget SQL, and NoSQL, we want the new hotness.. "SomeSQL"
[17:47] <smoser> Tuesday, April 25th 2011 14:00 UTC
[17:47] <SpamapS> cheers all!
[17:47] <smoser> end meeting coming
[17:47] <smoser> in 5
[17:47] <smoser> 4
[17:47] <Daviey> wait
[17:47] <smoser> 3
[17:47] <Daviey> okay, carry on.
[17:47] <SpamapS> 14:00 UTC?!
[17:47] <smoser> 2
[17:47] <smoser> doh!
[17:47] <smoser> Tuesday, April 25th 2011 16:00 UTC
[17:47]  * SpamapS thinks smoser was just checking to see if we were reading
[17:47] <smoser> 1
[17:47] <smoser> #endmeeting
[17:47] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:47.
[17:49]  * smb stays behind for the next one
[17:53]  * Daviey lurks to keep smb company.
[17:53] <smb> Daviey, Cheers. :)
[17:57] <JFo> \o/
[17:57] <ppisati_> o/
[17:57] <cking> o/
[17:58] <kamal> o/
[17:58] <herton> \o
[17:59] <sconklin> -o-
[17:59] <smb> Too early, too early!
[17:59]  * JFo dances
[17:59] <cking> we are eager
[18:00] <bjf> #startmeeting
[18:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
[18:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:00] <kamal> gotta be early or you'll miss it, given bjf's lightning speed ;-)
[18:00] <sconklin> we want a world record for a negative meeting length
[18:00] <bjf> ##
[18:00] <bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
[18:00] <bjf> ##
[18:00] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:00] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[18:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
[18:00] <bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
[18:00] <bjf> #
[18:00] <bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
[18:00] <bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
[18:00] <bjf> #
[18:00] <bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
[18:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
[18:00] <JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (15 bugs, 7 Blueprints)
[18:00] <JFo> [18:00] <JFo>  * 2 linux kernel bugs (down 2)
[18:00] <JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap4 bugs (no change)
[18:00] <JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap4 bug (no change)
[18:00] <JFo> [18:00] <JFo>  * 34 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
[18:00] <JFo>  * 2 linux-ti-omap4 bugs (up 1)
[18:00] <JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap4 bug (no change)
[18:00] <JFo> [18:00] <JFo>  * 6 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
[18:00] <JFo> [18:00] <JFo>  * 5 Linux Bugs (down 1)
[18:00] <JFo> [18:00] <JFo> changed to only reflect linux package bugs
[18:00] <JFo>  * 15 Linux Bugs (no change)
[18:01] <JFo> [18:01] <JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
[18:01] <JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
[18:01] <JFo> ..
[18:01] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
[18:01] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
[18:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Natty Bug Handling (JFo)
[18:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-bug-handling
[18:01] <JFo> * [jeremyfoshee] to develop process for handling, validation & closure,
[18:01] <JFo>   and document in the wiki:POSTPONED
[18:01] <JFo>    -held off because the process is changing. The documentation I have compiled
[18:01] <JFo>     will be useful once we enumerate what gets broken out between SRU and Dev.
[18:01] <JFo> * [jeremyfoshee] to drive existing bugs with patches list to zero and keep it there:POSTPONED
[18:01] <JFo>   - postponed based on conversation with Pete. There will be more on this post-UDS
[18:01] <JFo> * [jeremyfoshee] look at kerneloops reports to better detect duplicates:POSTPONED
[18:01] <JFo>   - postponed as this work will not make it before release. Will likely complete ist of the
[18:01] <JFo>     O cycle
[18:01] <JFo> * [jeremyfoshee] look at primary arsenal message for applicability to flavour
[18:01] <JFo>   (not appropriate for arm):POSTPONED
[18:01] <JFo>   -Postponed as the arsenal scripts are currently under complete rewrite to reduce complexity
[18:01] <JFo> * [jeremyfoshee] update apport-hooks verbage:POSTPONED
[18:01] <JFo>   -bjf has a bug in to address this. I have postponed pending the outcome of that bug.
[18:01] <JFo> * [jeremyfoshee] look at arsenal flow and document:DONE
[18:01] <JFo>   -completed inasmuch as we have basic diagrams for what they currently do. This will
[18:01] <JFo>    change with the re-write mentioned above
[18:01] <JFo> * [sconklin] ensure we have documentation/scripting(?) for git bisect'ing an issue:DONE
[18:01] <JFo>   -Done. Available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/KernelBisection
[18:01] <JFo> ..
[18:02] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Natty (apw / ogasawara)
[18:02] <apw> No change from last week version wise.  We may have to do an upload today for a compiler issue.
[18:03] <apw> ..
[18:03] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
[18:03] <sconklin> ||
[18:03] <sconklin> || We are not currently in a normal SRU kernel cycle due to allocation of testing resources to Natty.
[18:03] <sconklin> || However, we have uploaded new Maverick packages to -proposed (or will today), in order to allow
[18:03] <sconklin> || interested parties to test the fairly large set of upstream stable patches which have been applied.
[18:03] <sconklin> || Maverick will be respun during the next cycle with any new fixes, and replace the package currently
[18:03] <sconklin> || in -proposed.
[18:03] <sconklin> ..
[18:03] <bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Karmic/Hardy/Dapper (sconklin / bjf)
[18:03] <sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
[18:03] <sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:03] <sconklin> || dapper   linux-source-2.6.15               || 2.6.15-57.94         || 2.6.15-57.95         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:03] <sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:03] <sconklin> || karmic   linux-ec2                         || 2.6.31-308.28        || 2.6.31-308.29        ||    1 ||        1 ||
[18:03] <sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.31-23.74         || 2.6.31-23.75         ||    1 ||        1 ||
[18:03] <sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:03] <sconklin> || lucid    linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-314.27        || 2.6.32-315.28        ||    5 ||        5 ||
[18:03] <sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.32.30.23         || 2.6.32.31.23         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:03] <sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || 2.6.35.25.36         || 2.6.35.28.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-28.50~lucid1  ||   13 ||       13 ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-30.29         || 2.6.32-31.31         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-30.59         || 2.6.32-31.61         ||    6 ||        6 ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.32.30.36         || 2.6.32.31.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.32.314.15        || 2.6.32.315.16        ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:04] <sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || maverick linux-ti-omap4                    || 2.6.35-903.21        || 2.6.35-903.22        ||    2 ||        2 ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.38.6               || 1.38.7               ||    0 ||        0 ||
[18:04] <sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
[18:04] <sconklin> || Complete (almost) realtime version report is here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
[18:04] <sconklin> ||
[18:04] <sconklin> ..
[18:04] <bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
[18:04] <JFo> Incoming Bugs
[18:04] <JFo>  917 Natty Bugs (up 262) !
[18:04] <JFo>  1265 Maverick Bugs (up 10)
[18:04] <JFo>  1075 Lucid Bugs (up 11)
[18:04] <JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
[18:04] <JFo> [18:04] <JFo>   * 47 maverick bugs (no change)
[18:04] <JFo>   * 77 lucid bugs (no change)
[18:04] <JFo>   * 4 karmic bugs (down 2)
[18:04] <JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
[18:04] <JFo> [18:04] <JFo>   * 482 natty bugs (up 147) !
[18:04] <JFo>   * 250 maverick bugs (up 1)
[18:04] <JFo>   * 224 lucid bugs (up 1)
[18:04] <JFo>   * 38 karmic bugs (no change)
[18:04] <JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
[18:04] <JFo> [18:05] <JFo>   * 34 natty bugs (up 17) !
[18:05] <JFo>   * 1 maverick bugs (no change)
[18:05] <JFo>   * 0 lucid bugs (no change)
[18:05] <JFo>   * 0 karmic bug (no change)
[18:05] <JFo> ! - please note that the numbers enumerated by '!' may be artificially elevated due to a
[18:05] <JFo> tremendous amount of seemingly duplicate bugs of the
[18:05] <JFo> "WARNING: at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.38/net/sched/sch_generic." variety.
[18:05] <JFo> ..
[18:05] <bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
[18:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
[18:05] <JFo> We Didn't hold a bug day. I let it slip my mind completely.
[18:05] <JFo> ..
[18:05] <bjf> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
[18:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
[18:05] <JFo> nothing to report
[18:05] <JFo> ..
[18:05] <bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
[18:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
[18:05] <bjf> thanks everyone
[18:05] <bjf> #endmeeting
[18:05] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:05.
[18:05] <JFo> thanks bjf
[18:05] <smb> Beertime!
[18:06] <sconklin> thanks
[18:06] <ppisati_> :)
[18:06] <cking> sweet
[18:06] <JFo> enjoy smb :)
[18:06] <kamal> thanks bjf
[18:06] <ogasawara> JFo: just curious, the 34 natty bugs noted as regression-proposed, is that accurate?  as we don't have a -proposed kernel for natty yet.
[18:07] <kamal> JFo sees into the future ;-)
[18:07] <bjf> ogasawara, yes, there are natty bugs with that tag on them
[18:07] <JFo> ogasawara, that is only there so I can track them
[18:08] <JFo> and address them
[18:08] <JFo> hope to sort them out today
[19:56] <marcus> are there any meeting rules available?
[19:57] <czajkowski> marcus: with regards to what ?
[19:59] <marcus> raising voice, moderation ...
[20:03] <czajkowski> marcus: really depends on what meeting tbh, if it;s in here there are usually team meetings so procedures and topics and people talk at certain times
[20:03] <czajkowski> in loco team channels it does depend on how it's chaired
[20:04] <marcus> ah, okay
[20:57] <paultag> LoCo time, T-Minus 2 minutes
[20:58] <paultag> czajkowski: popey: itnet7: huats: leogg: ping :)
[20:58] <huats> paultag, hello
[20:58] <paultag> huats: Howdy!
[20:58] <huats> right on time
[20:58] <huats> :)
[20:58] <popey> yo!
[20:58] <paultag> popey: Howdy-doodie!
[20:59] <paultag> 'bout that time!
[21:00] <paultag> #startmeeting
[21:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is paultag.
[21:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:00] <paultag> Well, hello, world!
[21:00] <paultag> we've got huats, popey, is leogg itnet7 or czajkowski here?
[21:00] <leogg> o/
[21:01] <paultag> o7
[21:01]  * paultag checks agenda
[21:01] <paultag> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
[21:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
[21:01] <paultag> JanC: ping?
[21:02] <huats> paultag, he should be around since 15 minutes ago he was sending email :)
[21:02] <paultag> huats: aye :)
[21:02] <paultag> anyone have anything else, while we wait?
[21:02] <JanC> hi
[21:02] <paultag> Ah, howdy
[21:02] <paultag> JanC: the floor is yours
[21:02] <czajkowski> Aloha
[21:02] <popey> hey czajkowski
[21:02]  * paultag waves to czajkowski 
[21:03] <czajkowski> I blame my housemate for eating my internet >:(
[21:03] <paultag> czajkowski: it's OK, we're underway, JanC's got the floor just now
[21:03] <paultag> have'nt missed anything yet
[21:03] <JanC> well, ubuntu-be has some money to spend on material for publicity
[21:04] <JanC> and we wondered if Canonical would want to sell some of the things they buy for themselves (or sometimes to give away for free) to locoteams at a good price
[21:04] <YoBoY> hi
[21:05] <JanC> and at least 3 other locoteams in the mailing list found that a good idea too
[21:05] <paultag> ubuntu-cz, italy, and ecuador
[21:05] <czajkowski> JanC: like a discount code or something ?
[21:06] <JanC> I'm also thinking about things that are not in the regular store
[21:06] <JanC> like the table cloth & banner
[21:06] <popey> perhaps they _should_ sell them in the store
[21:06] <popey> and give discounts to approved teams
[21:06] <czajkowski> popey: +1 idea yes
[21:06] <JanC> we could use more of these, and other things like rollups etc.
[21:06] <huats> popey, I am sure it is a good idea for canonical to sell that in the store
[21:06] <paultag> I could see that being really useful
[21:07] <Cracknel> this sounds great
[21:07] <paultag> and I think everyone would make out fairly well from it
[21:07] <popey> would make it easier for people to buy them
[21:07] <czajkowski> JanC: so the table cloth and bannner are good examples of this
[21:07] <popey> via a legitimate store
[21:07] <huats> it is clearly soemthing aimed at large groups
[21:07] <czajkowski> can you think of anything else
[21:07] <huats> like LoCos
[21:07] <JanC> of course if they are much more expensive than making them locally it's not going to work well
[21:07] <czajkowski> we then can ask canonical would it be possible for teams to purchase these things via the store ?
[21:08] <czajkowski> JanC: of course, but the idea being they'd all be the same so more professional looking
[21:08] <JanC> that's one point indeed
[21:08] <paultag> [IDEA] Sell LoCo Conf-SWAG (such as tablecloths or banners) in their store, at a discounted rate for approved teams
[21:08] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Sell LoCo Conf-SWAG (such as tablecloths or banners) in their store, at a discounted rate for approved teams
[21:08] <czajkowski> ok so I guess what I'm wondering is
[21:08] <czajkowski> before we go to canonical and ask for this
[21:08] <czajkowski> is it just these two items
[21:08] <czajkowski> or is there anything else that springs to mind
[21:09] <paultag> +1 czajkowski
[21:09] <JanC> rollups are another thing
[21:09] <czajkowski> I dont want to go back and forth every few months asking for another rhing
[21:09] <czajkowski> rollups?
[21:09] <huats> once again putting that in the store might only put some "pollution" in the store or at least to have that in a separate category
[21:09] <popey> we should a) ask canonical if they're willing first, then b) if they are, go to loco-contacts and ask when people want most
[21:09] <popey> feed that back to canonical
[21:09] <YoBoY> czajkowski: lanyards
[21:09] <paultag> popey: +1
[21:09] <huats> popey, +1
[21:09] <popey> AIUI there were some changes afoot in the store
[21:10] <popey> so this might work well, or badly depends
[21:10] <JanC> there are lots of lanyards in the conference packs currently  ☺
[21:10] <czajkowski> YoBoY: lanyards are already there
[21:10] <YoBoY> yes but not discounted ^^"
[21:10] <serfus> what's nice in banner and such imo is that most of the loco teams have it localize, this will cancel that
[21:10] <popey> YoBoY: anything can be discounted
[21:10] <czajkowski> YoBoY: they are also in the conference packs.
[21:10] <JanC> but selling regular store items with the discount might be nice too
[21:10] <popey> you can get vouchers for the stores
[21:11] <YoBoY> czajkowski: the conference pack don't have enought for me
[21:11] <czajkowski> serfus: not the approved ones, it's a generic one.
[21:11] <huats> serfus, I think the idea would be to find items that don't need localisation
[21:11] <czajkowski> YoBoY: france team is a bit of an unusal one :)
[21:11] <czajkowski> huats: back me up here!!!
[21:11] <YoBoY> lol
[21:11] <huats> czajkowski, no way
[21:11] <huats> standing next to YoBoY :)
[21:12] <czajkowski> ok well if you like I'll take this on as an action item
[21:12] <czajkowski> and write to jane and petra and ask them would this be even possible and report back either via next mweeing or via the mailing list
[21:12] <paultag> [ACTION] Contact Canonical about offering LoCos products in the Store
[21:12] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Contact Canonical about offering LoCos products in the Store
[21:12] <paultag> +1 czajkowski, thanks :)
[21:12] <paultag> JanC: really great idea
[21:12] <czajkowski> np
[21:13] <czajkowski> ok
[21:13] <czajkowski> is there anything else
[21:13] <czajkowski> also can I please ask all locoteams when contacting us to mail the entire team
[21:14] <czajkowski> if you mail us personally the team may miss out due to people not getting their email
[21:14] <czajkowski> pretty please :D
[21:14] <czajkowski> mail loco council mail address
[21:14] <paultag> we are in most timezones, so we get back to you faster :)
[21:15] <czajkowski> yes
[21:15] <czajkowski> exactly
[21:15] <czajkowski> does anyone have anything else ?
[21:15] <paultag> Anyone have anything they'd like to bring up?
[21:15] <JanC> BTW, czajkowski: with "rollups" I mean roll-up banners that come with a metal stand to hang them on  (Canonical has those already for internal use)
[21:15] <paultag> what Laura said :)
[21:15] <itnet7> o/
[21:15] <paultag> itnet7: you have the floor :)
[21:15] <popey> i think we (UK) call them 'pop-up' banners, but yeah
[21:15] <YoBoY> JanC: not so good, english presentation material...
[21:16] <czajkowski> JanC: grand job shall ask also
[21:16] <YoBoY> or just with Ubuntu on it a bit ?
[21:16] <huats> YoBoY, that is why I mention materials that don't need translation
[21:16] <czajkowski> YoBoY: can just be the same Ubuntu info as on banner
[21:16] <czajkowski> Ubuntu and loco.ubuntu.com o them
[21:16] <JanC> YoBoY: considering that we often have to use it in a multilingual environment anyway...   ;)
[21:17] <YoBoY> the banner have the english website, it's not a good info for me and people discovering ;)
[21:17] <huats> JanC, it is something that is not true in France (the multilingual stuff)
[21:17] <JanC> ah, but we have localised flyers etc.
[21:17] <itnet7> sorry finally got on
[21:17] <JanC> and posters
[21:17] <paultag> oh, righto
[21:17] <itnet7> was jyst saying present
[21:17] <paultag> itnet7: yessir :)
[21:18] <czajkowski> YoBoY: but if this goes into the store it's not going to be in multilanguages
[21:18] <czajkowski> it costs too much to get it done
[21:18] <JanC> the banners are more to pull attention or be visible from further away
[21:18] <paultag> we could ask for no english on it, I guess
[21:18] <YoBoY> yes I know, I don't want multilanguages stuff, I want neutral language stuff
[21:18] <paultag> with just "Ubuntu" and the logo or something
[21:18] <JanC> and to make the booth recognizable
[21:18] <paultag> and stock photos of people having fun
[21:19] <czajkowski> yes Ubuntu or loco.ubuntu.com as it's for locoteams
[21:19] <YoBoY> for example yes
[21:19] <YoBoY> it's a translated website
[21:19] <czajkowski> that's all that is going to go on these things
[21:19] <czajkowski> that makes them suitable for all
[21:20] <YoBoY> or we could ask a special website like start.ubuntu.com where users are redirect to the right website
[21:20] <YoBoY> don't know what's the best way
[21:20] <huats> YoBoY, I think we'll figure out lter
[21:21] <YoBoY> yes
[21:21] <huats> first let's ask Canonicla
[21:21] <czajkowski> we have the LD lets not go creating more websites for others to develop :)
[21:21] <JanC> "find you local team on loco.ubuntu.com"
[21:21] <JanC> but that's English again...
[21:21] <huats> and then during the many exchange we'll find the right formula to have something language neutral
[21:21] <YoBoY> just the website JanC :)
[21:22] <vojtech_t> i think just logo and ubuntu.com or loco.ubuntu.com is enough
[21:22] <czajkowski> ok
[21:23] <JanC> hi vojtech_t, you responded for the Czech team on the list IIRC ?
[21:23] <vojtech_t> JanC: yes
[21:24] <czajkowski> vojtech_t: thanks
[21:26] <vojtech_t> i think this is great idea, because we could use this materials, but it's to problematic for us to obtain them (create graphics, find a company to produce them...)
[21:26] <vojtech_t> *..too problematic...
[21:26] <JanC> vojtech_t: depends on what you have most: people to work on it or money  ☺
[21:26] <YoBoY> same problem everywhere
[21:27] <YoBoY> huats: where we produced our last banners ? :D
[21:27] <czajkowski> vojtech_t: I've taken an action item to follow this up so will do so and get back to people
[21:27] <JanC> but there is also the scale issue, often making 1 or 2 items is relatively expensive
[21:27] <serfus> it might be easier and cheaper but i still think it's better for a loco team to have local merchandise
[21:28] <JanC> serfus: one doesn't exclude teh other
[21:28] <huats> YoBoY, Peru
[21:28] <YoBoY> ^^
[21:28] <huats> and it was really cheap
[21:28] <czajkowski> at the end of the day folks, this is really only a discussion to see if people may be interested we still need to ask canonical if it's even possible
[21:28] <serfus> JanC, in case the team is not very wealthy it does
[21:28] <czajkowski> so nothing really will be sorted till then
[21:28] <huats> we asked someone from Ubuntu Peru (nxvl) to bring it to us on a UDS
[21:29] <huats> and it costs us only 20€ for 3 banners...
[21:29] <czajkowski> yes but not everyone is in that position
[21:30] <JanC> I've been thinking it might also be useful if Canonical wanted to pay the transport cost (now often the people who have least money pay most because they live further away...)
[21:30] <JanC> that could be part of the "discount"
[21:30] <paultag> OK, I think we have had some good talk on this, and we have enough to move forward with this
[21:31] <paultag> I think we should end this topic -- does anyone else have a new topic to discuss?
[21:31] <paultag> if not, we'll close the meeting and take this to locoteams
[21:31] <paultag> once!
[21:31] <paultag> twice!
[21:31] <paultag> thrice! That's a wrap!
[21:31] <paultag> Thanks, all!
[21:31] <paultag> #endmeeting
[21:31] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:31.
[21:32] <JanC> yep, thanks everybody for coming & discussing  ☺
[21:32] <serfus> ✌
[21:34] <YoBoY> thanks
[21:44] <highvoltage> ohno I missed loco time
[21:47] <huats> highvoltage, indeed :)