/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/19/#ubuntu-ops.txt

ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from gueriLLaPunK)02:12
rwwgueriLLaPunK [~bewbs@guerilla.punk.loves.bananas.and.being.inside.ur.seriesoftub.es]03:11
rwwI suspect that might not be entirely appropriate.03:11
rwwRight now I can't wait for Natty to come out.04:12
rwwNo more people trying to upgrade to development releases, and #ubuntu+1 goes away for a bit.04:12
tonyyarussorww: What makes you think Natty release will mean nobody trying to upgrade to a development release?  ;)04:35
tonyyarussoBad rww.05:02
rwwYou say "bad", I say "proactively improving #ubuntu+1 and #ubuntu-offtopic"05:02
rwwThe obvious next step after "Every time you get rid of a troll, two newer annoying ones appear." is that if I bring back all the old ones, #ubuntu-offtopic will improve!05:03
tonyyarussouh, sure...05:04
rwwtonyyarusso: You know you believe that #ubuntu-offtopic used to be better :(05:04
tonyyarussoYeah, but earlier than their first appearance :)05:04
rwwUnder my leadership, our country will return to a freer time! A happier time! When people could be people and people could get kicked for no reason and everybody laughed and then got stabbed by __mikem using CTCP ACTION.05:05
rwwBack when I used to complain all the ti... never mind.05:05
rwwtonyyarusso: If I open #u-r-p party early and don't tell anyone, will it make you sad and/or amused?05:26
tonyyarussohaha05:28
tonyyarussoThere isn't really an "early", since it's never had a defined open date.05:29
rwwlet's go for it, then.05:29
tonyyarussok05:32
rwwtonyyarusso: has MLOCK set, by the look of it05:32
rwwsilly technology, breaking my amusement :[05:32
tonyyarussoWhat were you planning to amuse yourself with?05:33
rww/mode #ubuntu-release-party -if :[05:33
tonyyarussoah, right05:34
bazhangXXX-Ongi  back for more06:36
rwwI still haven't gotten the hang of floodbot webchat bans :(06:36
bazhangdejan_ is back, not in #ubuntu (yet)06:37
rwwDid they get re-banned from #ubuntu, or is that just a heads up?06:37
bazhangthought he was banned. he's in #freenode currently06:37
Tm_Twas, but unless he's rebanned...06:38
Tm_Tnice behaviour, btw06:39
rwwIdleOne unbanned him on 2011-04-1306:39
rwwfull moon was yesterday06:51
* rww watches rana pwn #ubuntu-offtopic, giggles07:18
rwwoh lawd, they correctly parsed !o4o too. I like this one.07:20
ranaHello. I have been banned from #ubuntu-offtopic for trolling. I was not trolling07:48
bazhangrana, hi07:49
ranaHello bazhang07:49
bazhangrana, please have a read of the guidelines and the code of conduct07:49
bazhang!guidelines | rana07:49
ubotturana: The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines07:49
bazhang!codeofconduct | rana07:50
ubotturana: The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is a community etiquette document to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere, and can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ .  For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct .07:50
ranaI was banned for trolling. I was not trolling. How do I appeal after reading your rules?07:50
bazhangrana, please take a moment to read them in their entirety07:51
bazhangLarsTorBen (et al ) is back07:52
ranaAlright bazhang I have read them in their entirety07:54
bazhangrana, and you know why you were banned?07:55
ranaI have omitted the sections about being an op and networking from my reading, they do not apply to me.07:55
ranabazhang Other users were irritated by my behavior. They had a personal problem with my behavior. I was warned by moderator rww briefly.07:56
bazhangrana, in fact were you not asked to stop by many users?07:56
ranabazhang What I was doing was also construed as trolling. In reality, I was not. I understand that what I was doing could be construed as trolling, because of the relative nature of the rules.07:56
bazhangrana, could you answer my question please?07:57
ranabazhang Several users expressed their dislike toward me. Only one user, yourself, directly asked me stop, if my memory serves.07:57
ranabazhang One person, rww, implied that I should stop. He was the one who banned me07:57
bazhangrana, so the reason for your ban was what?07:58
ranabazhang I was banned because several users in the channel disliked me. They expressed their dislike toward me, which I for the most part ignored.07:59
ranabazhang I was also given several copies of the rules to read, which I also ignored.07:59
rana*several copies of the link07:59
bazhangrana, did the rules say anything about that? ie, in respect to your behavior in the channel?08:00
ranabazhang This general dislike for me, coupled with a poor use of grammar, resulted in my ban from the channel08:00
ranabazhang The rules state that I should respect others. Would you like me to quote directly?08:00
bazhangrana, well, that hardly seems a faithful rendering of how events unfolded, to put it generously08:01
ranabazhang I continued to input into the discussion, despite being shunned by most present.08:01
bazhangrana, you admitted you were actively trying to stir things up by your behavior08:01
ranabazhang I do not know what "stir things up" means08:02
ranabazhang I recall saying that I was "clearly trying to cause trouble"08:02
ranabazhang This remark was not made in seriousness.08:02
ranabazhang I was not trying to cause trouble.08:03
bazhangrana, just  a moment please08:03
Tm_Trana: do you prefer discussing with bazhang or someone who wasn't involved on the discussions in offtopic, like me?08:03
ranaEither is fine for me.08:03
Tm_Tok, I'll give my view on this then too (:08:04
ranaThank you.08:04
ranaI admit that my ban was just. I was told to desist by a user named rww.08:04
Tm_Tfor what I have seen, you have kept intentionally borderlining and crossing the line for some time now08:05
ranaBorderlining? Can you clarify?08:05
ranaI think I understand08:05
ranaInitially, when entering the board, I was completely new, having only used IRC once before08:05
ranaAfter several times being requested to correct the poor grammar of my messages, I did.08:06
ranaMy messages were especially correct, grammatically.08:06
Tm_Tthat's not the issue08:07
Tm_Twell, not the biggest issue anyway08:07
ranaWhat is the biggest issue, we should get to that first.08:07
ranaI was under the impression I was banned for "trolling".08:07
ranaI was accused of this several times, but I was not trolling.08:08
Tm_Tthat word wraps up several issues08:08
ranaThe farther the conversation went, the less obnoxious I tried to be.08:08
Tm_Tbut you didn't succeed, unfortunately08:08
Tm_Tjust to give an example08:08
Tm_T0830.31 < rana> bazhang, it's called ignore if you really care so much.But, I mean, really, you can't read what i'm writing? maybe you're uptight today, but you seem like a spell-nazi08:08
ranaThat was very early in the conversation08:09
Tm_TI personally don't like the attitude what's in comments like that08:09
Tm_Tyes I know08:09
ranaAs I said, I was being obnoxious.08:09
ranaI am a new user, I was not aware of the rules, and I did indeed ignore them when they were given to me several times.08:09
Tm_Tthat's enough to reason to be banned08:10
Tm_Tthe fact that you chose to ignore when others attempted to guide you08:11
ranaI am not here to say my ban was unjust, I am here to say that I have learnt my lesson and will try to be as polite and well-mannered as I can in the future.08:11
ranaI have read the rules, at bazhang's initial request08:12
rana(in this... dare I call it a hearing?)08:12
Tm_Tnah, discussion08:13
ranaI initially entered the channel, not entirely with the intention of being obnoxious but perhaps with an obnoxious spirit about me.08:13
Tm_Trana: in the future, you will listen when others ask you to stop?08:13
ranaTm_T I will certainly consider them, and if they have a good reason I will certainly desist next time, so as to avoid having to do this again.08:14
ranaTm_T I have read the rules, and am acquainted with them, I will attempt to follow them.08:15
Tm_Trana: ok, if you come back tomorrow, we can lift the ban08:15
ranaTm_T, wondering, would the ban have been automatically lifted, I thought that might be the case, but decided that I might as well come08:15
Tm_Tin general, they're never lifted automatically08:16
Tm_Tso discussing here is mandatory (:08:16
ranaKiddies need a time-out, eh?08:16
ranaIf I don't come back tomorrow, will the ban still be lifted?08:17
ranaOr must I come and check-in?08:17
Tm_Tlatter most likely (:08:18
rana: ( If I don't, can I appeal again in the future?08:18
ranaAlso, what time must I come?08:18
Tm_TI mean, you come here and ask the ban be lifted per this discussion, but not until tomorrow, roughly the same time08:19
Tm_Tyou can come and ask it later if you like08:19
ranaSo anytime, and I reference you as having told me?08:20
Tm_Tye, but not until tomorrow (:08:20
Tm_Ttime out is to ensure that all parties can calm down08:20
ranaYes I understand. I will be very angry tomorrow. Thank you for your help, you have been very agreeable.08:21
Tm_Trana: ok, you can leave the channel now08:24
bazhangTm_T, thanks much08:34
Tm_Tnp08:35
Tm_Tand thank you08:38
bazhangh00k, hi!08:40
Tm_Thi ginbuntu08:43
ginbuntuwhy am I here?08:44
Tm_Tginbuntu: I'll check, one moment please08:44
bazhangbanforwarded08:45
ginbuntuah08:45
ginbuntuthought some one hacked my pc08:45
ginbuntu:-)08:45
ginbuntubazhang, I thought I was chosen to become op of #ubuntu-offtopic08:45
ginbuntu;-)08:46
Tm_Tginbuntu: something we can help you with?08:46
ginbuntutm_T not really08:46
ginbuntujust woke up and see myself in this channel08:46
Tm_Tginbuntu: roger, then I would ask you to part from this channel08:48
elkythat smells like the doing of rww08:58
Tm_Tpici in this case08:58
Tm_Tand for good reason too08:58
elkyoh, i don't doubt the firmness of the reason at all09:00
Guest2355353523hi people09:06
Guest2355353523its not okay09:06
Guest2355353523<big_t> the pharmacy is CLOSED...09:06
Tm_Twhat is not ok?09:07
Guest2355353523to say that09:07
Tm_Twhy I feel like removing him from +1 too09:10
elky?09:14
Tm_Tnothing, gone already09:15
Tm_Tginbuntu: hi, how can we help you?09:31
ikonia /join #ubuntu-ops-team10:12
ikoniaoops10:12
Tm_Tthere is no cabal10:12
bazhangaugh. gurke_ larstorben is still on a !best run10:58
Tm_Tginbuntu: hi, something we can help you with?11:08
loc0hi bazhang11:50
loc0bazhang: hiii11:51
ikonialoc0: / jungli, what do you want?11:53
loc0ikonia: hi wassup man ?11:53
ikonialoc0: what do you want11:53
loc0do you seen youkay around ?11:53
ikoniano11:53
ikoniawhat do you want from this channel ?11:53
loc0let me unbanned me sir11:53
ikoniano11:53
loc0ok ikonia do you have youkay facebook profile ?11:54
ikonianow please leave the channel11:54
ikonialets not waste any more time11:54
loc0ikonia: ???11:54
ikonialoc0: please leave this channel now,11:54
exaltHello, im in #ubuntu-nl and #ubuntu-nl-offtopic for a long while, there is no trouble ever, untill... there is no op at the moment but a few spammers/trollers shouting at me12:38
exaltcan anyone help me ?12:39
LjLexalt: i don't think we have any -nl ops here12:39
ikoniaexalt: there maybe some ops free in #ubuntu-nl but I'm not sure who looks after that12:39
exalt:( JanC is gone12:39
bazhang#ubuntu-irc probably is the place12:39
LjLexalt: i think all ops are away, and the IRC council doesn't have access, so if this goes on you might want to resort to staff i guess12:40
exaltLjL: i already tried.. ill ignor them for now... its sad12:41
* LjL didn't know seveas had left from there too12:41
exalti see, all the ppl you see talking now are talking about food, illnesses and deseases12:42
exalt18+ content12:42
LjLi'm afraid that's not something freenode staff will intervene about :\12:42
jussiexalt: youll need to just wait for an op.12:43
exaltsad, also just before you entered they threatned to fight me and called me a dog12:43
LjLexalt: well, physical threats are absolutely not acceptable, if that's what it was12:45
ikoniais the council not in the access list ?12:50
LjLnope12:50
LjLit was seveas' channel after all, you'd not expect it to be :P12:51
ikoniahe's still pretty sensible and would want the channel covered12:51
LjLwell he's not in the access list anymore himself now, we might want to ask JanC (he's the only among them that i know, anyway)12:52
exaltLjL: i already asked him, hes AFK12:53
LjLexalt: i know, i was saying about asking him to add the IRC Council to the ops list12:54
exaltthere is rawchid, hes not admin but a respected fellow12:54
jussiikonia: ping?13:00
=== maco2 is now known as maco
charlie-tcaanyone got an eye on Gurke_ in #ubuntu+1 ?16:36
PiciI'm watching ;)16:36
charlie-tcaThanks16:37
PiciWho is this kesor person?16:55
PiciHes asking me to login to Habbo Hotel to chat with him.16:58
IdleOnehmm, why would a virtual community need to be based on a hotel?16:59
IdleOnejust seems creepy to me17:00
PiciWell, at least its not a motel.17:00
IdleOneyou got a point17:01
=== mrmist_ is now known as mrmist
=== mrmist is now known as mrmist_
=== mrmist_ is now known as mrmist
Picimrmist: I'm in the middle of doing some other things, but it looks like loc0 is jungli, who you're probably familiar with already.18:43
mrmistindeed18:48
mrmisthe /quit though, for now18:49
=== rww_ is now known as rww
rwwI'm permabanned from Habbo Hotel :<20:29
ikonia?20:29
PiciI think I might actually have an account there.20:29
rwwelky: is it a good thing or a bad thing that you immediately think of me when someone from #ubuntu-offtopic wanders in wondering what on earth they did to get banned... O:)20:29
ikoniaginbuntu: it maybe wise/helpful to remove #ubuntu-offtopic from your autojoin list please.20:54
PiciOr perhaps resolve the issue that has your banforwarded here.20:54
ikoniait's been offered a few times today that I can see and was refused20:55
ikoniaginbuntu: if you could respond, that would be helpful21:02
ginbuntuhi21:02
ginbuntuikonia, I can speak for about 5 min21:02
ginbuntuso why was I banned?21:02
ginbuntuam I*21:03
ginbuntuI am still banned it seems21:03
IdleOneI suggest coming back when you have more time.21:03
ginbuntuI think 5 min is enough to resolve this issue21:03
ikoniaI'll grab the info if you can hang around21:08
ikoniaPici: are you around / free ?21:09
ikoniaginbuntu: it appears you where banned due to a build up of bad behaviour and bad language21:10
IdleOnehello guntbert21:10
guntbertdoes "the team" hav an opinion about ubuntu tweak?21:11
guntberthello IdleOne21:11
IdleOneyeah, don't use it21:11
ikoniaginbuntu: could you give us 5 minutes please ?21:11
guntbertbecause lacan in #u is talking very stron about it21:11
guntbert*strong21:12
ikoniasorry, that was for guntbert21:12
guntbertikonia: no problem :)21:12
ikoniaginbuntu: you still there ?21:12
ikoniaginbuntu: maybe best if you come back when you are at your keyboard and have time to chat this through21:17
Tm_Tgood night all (:21:18
ikoniahello guntbert21:22
ikoniadidn't mean to chase you out earlier but ginbuntu had limited time free21:22
guntbertbetter now? so it'd be ok to tell people not to use it and certainly to not advise using it? (ubuntu tweak)21:23
ikoniaguntbert: I always tell people to not do it as my personal opinion,21:23
guntbertI didn't feel chased, but he should have the possibilty to solve his issue in time21:23
guntbertikonia: I was asking because I have no experience with this special piece of software21:24
ikoniamy opinion it's a great idea, but it's not well maintained enough, it does a lot of things that don't need "doing" and can cause sloppy problems with things like package removals21:25
ikoniaif someone says they want to use it, I'll always state I recommend against it and why as there is nothing that can't be done without it21:25
Flannelguntbert: It's not quality software.  #ubuntu should not be recommending it for sure, as far as individual use, we can discourage it, we obviously can't stop it :)21:25
guntbertvery concisely said, thx, I'll follow your example21:26
guntbertahh - would it be an idea to have a factoid about it?21:26
IdleOneseeing how we discourage it's use I don't believe we can support a user that has used it.21:26
ginbuntuikonia, can we talk another time? I have a death line to catch. I am sorry.21:27
ikoniaginbuntu: no problem21:27
LjLdo we know what ubuntu tweak does? i don't think we should be damning it, or especially refusing supports to those who've used it, unless it's known to do unsafe things and cause trouble...21:28
ikoniaI've looked at it a few times in the past21:29
FlannelFrom my ops logs, it uses --force-yes, etc, etc.  It's automatix redux.  This may have changed recently, I suppose.21:29
ikoniait can cause a few problems with situations such as it's package removal technique21:29
IdleOneLjL: can't say that I know exactly what it does. I do trust ikonia and Flannel's opinions on it though.21:29
FlannelIdleOne: My opinion today is based solely on evidence from my log grepping abilities :)21:30
ikoniaI've not looked at it in the last 4 months-ish, but I have before, I tried to work with the developer to get it into universe to pull out some of the sloppier problems21:30
IdleOnewell maybe a few of us should test it.21:30
* guntbert opts out :)21:30
* IdleOne will try it.21:30
FlannelEh, download and parse it with your brain21:30
IdleOneI need to do a clean install anyway21:31
FlannelIt's all scripts anyway (or was last time)21:31
ikoniaI'd like to see it's functionality/perks fed into the ubuntu / gnome tools21:31
LjLikonia: did they refuse, or what?21:31
topyliwhat annoyed me is it does so much that's already done by official tools. it also adds ppa's. if i want to know what those are, i have to go and check, at which point i might as well add them through official tools if it looks useful21:31
IdleOneFlannel: my brain parsing code skills are limited21:31
FlannelIf you emperically test it, you get into !wfm territory21:31
IdleOneright21:31
topyliit also does some window management tweaks that are doable elsewhere. i honestly can't see the use21:31
ikoniaLjL: no, but once they realised what would need to be changed/cleared up it didn't go anywhere21:31
topylibeen a while since i looked though21:31
LjLi see21:31
LjLin that case i guess best to discourage it21:32
FlannelWell, "doesn't do anything productive" isn't dangerous.21:32
ikoniatopyli: that's my feeling push the experience gained developing it into the gnome tools21:32
topylithat would be a better idea, yes21:32
ikoniaas I recall the developer has serious time issues though21:32
FlannelBut if things are potentially damaging under certain conditions, that's different.  If it automates things (even if people should be doing this manually) and is appropriately written, there's no reason to discourage it.21:33
Flannel(This is not the case, from what I've seen, the above was hypothetical)21:33
guntbert!ubuntutweak is <reply> you don't need it and it might do things you don't want21:33
ubottuIn #ubuntu-ops, guntbert said: !ubuntutweak is <reply> you don't need it and it might do things you don't want21:33
LjLmight want to make that a little more verbose methinks21:33
IdleOneha21:34
ikoniaI'm sure we can do better than that21:34
FlannelLjL: such as <reply>no.21:34
Flannelright?21:34
LjL:)21:34
guntbertLjL: feel free, it was only menat as an incentive :)21:34
topyliwell i don't actually know if it does harmful stuff. i certainly don't think it's the new automatix21:34
guntbert*meant21:34
LjL!ubuntutweaks is a tool that automates some things; however, it is potentially dangerous and most of the things it does can be done by the use of other tools.21:34
ubottuIn #ubuntu-ops, LjL said: !ubuntutweaks is a tool that automates some things; however, it is potentially dangerous and most of the things it does can be done by the use of other tools.21:34
topyli(except that some/most users may not know what it means to add a bunch of random ppa's)21:35
guntbertand thats all from me for today, thank you for your time an input - bye :-))21:35
LjLi suppose it might be nice (but i'm not volunteering right now :P) to have a wiki page explaining how youc an replicate what it does21:35
Flanneltopyli: we really ought to do a code-review of it in it's current form.21:35
Flannel(I can do this this weekend, but probably not before)21:35
IdleOneFlannel: I think that would be best before we go and condemn the tool21:35
topylinot an urgent issue, we've lived with it so far :)21:35
FlannelIdleOne: well, it's been done in the past21:36
FlannelIdleOne: We're basically "revisiting" our position this iteration of checking21:36
IdleOneFlannel: right but things may have changed and they may have improved it.21:36
IdleOnelike I said I don't believe I have the required skill to check it.21:37
FlannelIdleOne: We always reserve the right to change our opinions randomly and without warning!21:37
IdleOneabsolutely21:37
topyliit's a big program these days and does lots of things21:37
LjL!ubuntutweaks is a tool that automates some things; however, it is potentially dangerous (an informal review of its code is pending) and most of the things it does can be done by the use of other tools.21:38
ubottuIn #ubuntu-ops, LjL said: !ubuntutweaks is a tool that automates some things; however, it is potentially dangerous (an informal review of its code is pending) and most of the things it does can be done by the use of other tools.21:38
topyliubuntutweak btw21:39
IdleOneappend: Support may not be provided in #ubuntu   ?21:39
LjL@login21:39
ubottuThe operation succeeded.21:39
LjL!ubuntutweak is a tool that automates some things; however, it is potentially dangerous (an informal review of its code is pending) and most of the things it does can be done by the use of other tools. Please don't (ask for) support in #ubuntu.21:40
ubottuIn #ubuntu-ops, LjL said: !ubuntutweak is a tool that automates some things; however, it is potentially dangerous (an informal review of its code is pending) and most of the things it does can be done by the use of other tools. Please don't (ask for) support in #ubuntu.21:40
* LjL rolls eyes21:40
IdleOne!ubuntutweak is <reply> Ubuntu Tweak is a tool that automates some things; however, it is potentially dangerous (an informal review of its code is pending) and most of the things it does can be done by the use of other tools. Please don't (ask for) support in #ubuntu.21:41
ubottuI'll remember that, IdleOne21:41
IdleOne!ubuntutweak > guntbert21:42
ubottuIn ubottu, guntbert said: ubuntutweak is <sed> /ask for/ask for \/ give)/21:56
LjLthat's why i put it in parentheses... :P22:00
Flannel!ubuntutweak =~ s/ort in/ort it in/22:00
ubottuI'll remember that Flannel22:00
LjLFlannel: that doesn't work with the "ask for" though :P22:00
FlannelLjL: No, but at least the non-parenthetical makes sense now!22:00
LjLmake it "Please don't ask for or provide support for it in #ubuntu" perhaps22:01
ubottuxangua called the ops in #ubuntu (pretz)22:54
ginbuntuikonia, still there?23:32

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