[03:11] <rww> gueriLLaPunK [~bewbs@guerilla.punk.loves.bananas.and.being.inside.ur.seriesoftub.es]
[03:11] <rww> I suspect that might not be entirely appropriate.
[04:12] <rww> Right now I can't wait for Natty to come out.
[04:12] <rww> No more people trying to upgrade to development releases, and #ubuntu+1 goes away for a bit.
[04:35] <tonyyarusso> rww: What makes you think Natty release will mean nobody trying to upgrade to a development release?  ;)
[05:02] <tonyyarusso> Bad rww.
[05:02] <rww> You say "bad", I say "proactively improving #ubuntu+1 and #ubuntu-offtopic"
[05:03] <rww> The obvious next step after "Every time you get rid of a troll, two newer annoying ones appear." is that if I bring back all the old ones, #ubuntu-offtopic will improve!
[05:04] <tonyyarusso> uh, sure...
[05:04] <rww> tonyyarusso: You know you believe that #ubuntu-offtopic used to be better :(
[05:04] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, but earlier than their first appearance :)
[05:05] <rww> Under my leadership, our country will return to a freer time! A happier time! When people could be people and people could get kicked for no reason and everybody laughed and then got stabbed by __mikem using CTCP ACTION.
[05:05] <rww> Back when I used to complain all the ti... never mind.
[05:26] <rww> tonyyarusso: If I open #u-r-p party early and don't tell anyone, will it make you sad and/or amused?
[05:28] <tonyyarusso> haha
[05:29] <tonyyarusso> There isn't really an "early", since it's never had a defined open date.
[05:29] <rww> let's go for it, then.
[05:32] <tonyyarusso> k
[05:32] <rww> tonyyarusso: has MLOCK set, by the look of it
[05:32] <rww> silly technology, breaking my amusement :[
[05:33] <tonyyarusso> What were you planning to amuse yourself with?
[05:33] <rww> /mode #ubuntu-release-party -if :[
[05:34] <tonyyarusso> ah, right
[06:36] <bazhang> XXX-Ongi  back for more
[06:36] <rww> I still haven't gotten the hang of floodbot webchat bans :(
[06:37] <bazhang> dejan_ is back, not in #ubuntu (yet)
[06:37] <rww> Did they get re-banned from #ubuntu, or is that just a heads up?
[06:37] <bazhang> thought he was banned. he's in #freenode currently
[06:38] <Tm_T> was, but unless he's rebanned...
[06:39] <Tm_T> nice behaviour, btw
[06:39] <rww> IdleOne unbanned him on 2011-04-13
[06:51] <rww> full moon was yesterday
[07:18]  * rww watches rana pwn #ubuntu-offtopic, giggles
[07:20] <rww> oh lawd, they correctly parsed !o4o too. I like this one.
[07:48] <rana> Hello. I have been banned from #ubuntu-offtopic for trolling. I was not trolling
[07:49] <bazhang> rana, hi
[07:49] <rana> Hello bazhang
[07:49] <bazhang> rana, please have a read of the guidelines and the code of conduct
[07:49] <bazhang> !guidelines | rana
[07:50] <bazhang> !codeofconduct | rana
[07:50] <rana> I was banned for trolling. I was not trolling. How do I appeal after reading your rules?
[07:51] <bazhang> rana, please take a moment to read them in their entirety
[07:52] <bazhang> LarsTorBen (et al ) is back
[07:54] <rana> Alright bazhang I have read them in their entirety
[07:55] <bazhang> rana, and you know why you were banned?
[07:55] <rana> I have omitted the sections about being an op and networking from my reading, they do not apply to me.
[07:56] <rana> bazhang Other users were irritated by my behavior. They had a personal problem with my behavior. I was warned by moderator rww briefly.
[07:56] <bazhang> rana, in fact were you not asked to stop by many users?
[07:56] <rana> bazhang What I was doing was also construed as trolling. In reality, I was not. I understand that what I was doing could be construed as trolling, because of the relative nature of the rules.
[07:57] <bazhang> rana, could you answer my question please?
[07:57] <rana> bazhang Several users expressed their dislike toward me. Only one user, yourself, directly asked me stop, if my memory serves.
[07:57] <rana> bazhang One person, rww, implied that I should stop. He was the one who banned me
[07:58] <bazhang> rana, so the reason for your ban was what?
[07:59] <rana> bazhang I was banned because several users in the channel disliked me. They expressed their dislike toward me, which I for the most part ignored.
[07:59] <rana> bazhang I was also given several copies of the rules to read, which I also ignored.
[07:59] <rana> *several copies of the link
[08:00] <bazhang> rana, did the rules say anything about that? ie, in respect to your behavior in the channel?
[08:00] <rana> bazhang This general dislike for me, coupled with a poor use of grammar, resulted in my ban from the channel
[08:00] <rana> bazhang The rules state that I should respect others. Would you like me to quote directly?
[08:01] <bazhang> rana, well, that hardly seems a faithful rendering of how events unfolded, to put it generously
[08:01] <rana> bazhang I continued to input into the discussion, despite being shunned by most present.
[08:01] <bazhang> rana, you admitted you were actively trying to stir things up by your behavior
[08:02] <rana> bazhang I do not know what "stir things up" means
[08:02] <rana> bazhang I recall saying that I was "clearly trying to cause trouble"
[08:02] <rana> bazhang This remark was not made in seriousness.
[08:03] <rana> bazhang I was not trying to cause trouble.
[08:03] <bazhang> rana, just  a moment please
[08:03] <Tm_T> rana: do you prefer discussing with bazhang or someone who wasn't involved on the discussions in offtopic, like me?
[08:03] <rana> Either is fine for me.
[08:04] <Tm_T> ok, I'll give my view on this then too (:
[08:04] <rana> Thank you.
[08:04] <rana> I admit that my ban was just. I was told to desist by a user named rww.
[08:05] <Tm_T> for what I have seen, you have kept intentionally borderlining and crossing the line for some time now
[08:05] <rana> Borderlining? Can you clarify?
[08:05] <rana> I think I understand
[08:05] <rana> Initially, when entering the board, I was completely new, having only used IRC once before
[08:06] <rana> After several times being requested to correct the poor grammar of my messages, I did.
[08:06] <rana> My messages were especially correct, grammatically.
[08:07] <Tm_T> that's not the issue
[08:07] <Tm_T> well, not the biggest issue anyway
[08:07] <rana> What is the biggest issue, we should get to that first.
[08:07] <rana> I was under the impression I was banned for "trolling".
[08:08] <rana> I was accused of this several times, but I was not trolling.
[08:08] <Tm_T> that word wraps up several issues
[08:08] <rana> The farther the conversation went, the less obnoxious I tried to be.
[08:08] <Tm_T> but you didn't succeed, unfortunately
[08:08] <Tm_T> just to give an example
[08:08] <Tm_T> 0830.31 < rana> bazhang, it's called ignore if you really care so much.But, I mean, really, you can't read what i'm writing? maybe you're uptight today, but you seem like a spell-nazi
[08:09] <rana> That was very early in the conversation
[08:09] <Tm_T> I personally don't like the attitude what's in comments like that
[08:09] <Tm_T> yes I know
[08:09] <rana> As I said, I was being obnoxious.
[08:09] <rana> I am a new user, I was not aware of the rules, and I did indeed ignore them when they were given to me several times.
[08:10] <Tm_T> that's enough to reason to be banned
[08:11] <Tm_T> the fact that you chose to ignore when others attempted to guide you
[08:11] <rana> I am not here to say my ban was unjust, I am here to say that I have learnt my lesson and will try to be as polite and well-mannered as I can in the future.
[08:12] <rana> I have read the rules, at bazhang's initial request
[08:12] <rana> (in this... dare I call it a hearing?)
[08:13] <Tm_T> nah, discussion
[08:13] <rana> I initially entered the channel, not entirely with the intention of being obnoxious but perhaps with an obnoxious spirit about me.
[08:13] <Tm_T> rana: in the future, you will listen when others ask you to stop?
[08:14] <rana> Tm_T I will certainly consider them, and if they have a good reason I will certainly desist next time, so as to avoid having to do this again.
[08:15] <rana> Tm_T I have read the rules, and am acquainted with them, I will attempt to follow them.
[08:15] <Tm_T> rana: ok, if you come back tomorrow, we can lift the ban
[08:15] <rana> Tm_T, wondering, would the ban have been automatically lifted, I thought that might be the case, but decided that I might as well come
[08:16] <Tm_T> in general, they're never lifted automatically
[08:16] <Tm_T> so discussing here is mandatory (:
[08:16] <rana> Kiddies need a time-out, eh?
[08:17] <rana> If I don't come back tomorrow, will the ban still be lifted?
[08:17] <rana> Or must I come and check-in?
[08:18] <Tm_T> latter most likely (:
[08:18] <rana> : ( If I don't, can I appeal again in the future?
[08:18] <rana> Also, what time must I come?
[08:19] <Tm_T> I mean, you come here and ask the ban be lifted per this discussion, but not until tomorrow, roughly the same time
[08:19] <Tm_T> you can come and ask it later if you like
[08:20] <rana> So anytime, and I reference you as having told me?
[08:20] <Tm_T> ye, but not until tomorrow (:
[08:20] <Tm_T> time out is to ensure that all parties can calm down
[08:21] <rana> Yes I understand. I will be very angry tomorrow. Thank you for your help, you have been very agreeable.
[08:24] <Tm_T> rana: ok, you can leave the channel now
[08:34] <bazhang> Tm_T, thanks much
[08:35] <Tm_T> np
[08:38] <Tm_T> and thank you
[08:40] <bazhang> h00k, hi!
[08:43] <Tm_T> hi ginbuntu
[08:44] <ginbuntu> why am I here?
[08:44] <Tm_T> ginbuntu: I'll check, one moment please
[08:45] <bazhang> banforwarded
[08:45] <ginbuntu> ah
[08:45] <ginbuntu> thought some one hacked my pc
[08:45] <ginbuntu> :-)
[08:45] <ginbuntu> bazhang, I thought I was chosen to become op of #ubuntu-offtopic
[08:46] <ginbuntu> ;-)
[08:46] <Tm_T> ginbuntu: something we can help you with?
[08:46] <ginbuntu> tm_T not really
[08:46] <ginbuntu> just woke up and see myself in this channel
[08:48] <Tm_T> ginbuntu: roger, then I would ask you to part from this channel
[08:58] <elky> that smells like the doing of rww
[08:58] <Tm_T> pici in this case
[08:58] <Tm_T> and for good reason too
[09:00] <elky> oh, i don't doubt the firmness of the reason at all
[09:06] <Guest2355353523> hi people
[09:06] <Guest2355353523> its not okay
 the pharmacy is CLOSED...
[09:07] <Tm_T> what is not ok?
[09:07] <Guest2355353523> to say that
[09:10] <Tm_T> why I feel like removing him from +1 too
[09:14] <elky> ?
[09:15] <Tm_T> nothing, gone already
[09:31] <Tm_T> ginbuntu: hi, how can we help you?
[10:12] <ikonia>  /join #ubuntu-ops-team
[10:12] <ikonia> oops
[10:12] <Tm_T> there is no cabal
[10:58] <bazhang> augh. gurke_ larstorben is still on a !best run
[11:08] <Tm_T> ginbuntu: hi, something we can help you with?
[11:50] <loc0> hi bazhang
[11:51] <loc0> bazhang: hiii
[11:53] <ikonia> loc0: / jungli, what do you want?
[11:53] <loc0> ikonia: hi wassup man ?
[11:53] <ikonia> loc0: what do you want
[11:53] <loc0> do you seen youkay around ?
[11:53] <ikonia> no
[11:53] <ikonia> what do you want from this channel ?
[11:53] <loc0> let me unbanned me sir
[11:53] <ikonia> no
[11:54] <loc0> ok ikonia do you have youkay facebook profile ?
[11:54] <ikonia> now please leave the channel
[11:54] <ikonia> lets not waste any more time
[11:54] <loc0> ikonia: ???
[11:54] <ikonia> loc0: please leave this channel now,
[12:38] <exalt> Hello, im in #ubuntu-nl and #ubuntu-nl-offtopic for a long while, there is no trouble ever, untill... there is no op at the moment but a few spammers/trollers shouting at me
[12:39] <exalt> can anyone help me ?
[12:39] <LjL> exalt: i don't think we have any -nl ops here
[12:39] <ikonia> exalt: there maybe some ops free in #ubuntu-nl but I'm not sure who looks after that
[12:39] <exalt> :( JanC is gone
[12:39] <bazhang> #ubuntu-irc probably is the place
[12:40] <LjL> exalt: i think all ops are away, and the IRC council doesn't have access, so if this goes on you might want to resort to staff i guess
[12:41] <exalt> LjL: i already tried.. ill ignor them for now... its sad
[12:41]  * LjL didn't know seveas had left from there too
[12:42] <exalt> i see, all the ppl you see talking now are talking about food, illnesses and deseases
[12:42] <exalt> 18+ content
[12:42] <LjL> i'm afraid that's not something freenode staff will intervene about :\
[12:43] <jussi> exalt: youll need to just wait for an op.
[12:43] <exalt> sad, also just before you entered they threatned to fight me and called me a dog
[12:45] <LjL> exalt: well, physical threats are absolutely not acceptable, if that's what it was
[12:50] <ikonia> is the council not in the access list ?
[12:50] <LjL> nope
[12:51] <LjL> it was seveas' channel after all, you'd not expect it to be :P
[12:51] <ikonia> he's still pretty sensible and would want the channel covered
[12:52] <LjL> well he's not in the access list anymore himself now, we might want to ask JanC (he's the only among them that i know, anyway)
[12:53] <exalt> LjL: i already asked him, hes AFK
[12:54] <LjL> exalt: i know, i was saying about asking him to add the IRC Council to the ops list
[12:54] <exalt> there is rawchid, hes not admin but a respected fellow
[13:00] <jussi> ikonia: ping?
[16:36] <charlie-tca> anyone got an eye on Gurke_ in #ubuntu+1 ?
[16:36] <Pici> I'm watching ;)
[16:37] <charlie-tca> Thanks
[16:55] <Pici> Who is this kesor person?
[16:58] <Pici> Hes asking me to login to Habbo Hotel to chat with him.
[16:59] <IdleOne> hmm, why would a virtual community need to be based on a hotel?
[17:00] <IdleOne> just seems creepy to me
[17:00] <Pici> Well, at least its not a motel.
[17:01] <IdleOne> you got a point
[18:43] <Pici> mrmist: I'm in the middle of doing some other things, but it looks like loc0 is jungli, who you're probably familiar with already.
[18:48] <mrmist> indeed
[18:49] <mrmist> he /quit though, for now
[20:29] <rww> I'm permabanned from Habbo Hotel :<
[20:29] <ikonia> ?
[20:29] <Pici> I think I might actually have an account there.
[20:29] <rww> elky: is it a good thing or a bad thing that you immediately think of me when someone from #ubuntu-offtopic wanders in wondering what on earth they did to get banned... O:)
[20:54] <ikonia> ginbuntu: it maybe wise/helpful to remove #ubuntu-offtopic from your autojoin list please.
[20:54] <Pici> Or perhaps resolve the issue that has your banforwarded here.
[20:55] <ikonia> it's been offered a few times today that I can see and was refused
[21:02] <ikonia> ginbuntu: if you could respond, that would be helpful
[21:02] <ginbuntu> hi
[21:02] <ginbuntu> ikonia, I can speak for about 5 min
[21:02] <ginbuntu> so why was I banned?
[21:03] <ginbuntu> am I*
[21:03] <ginbuntu> I am still banned it seems
[21:03] <IdleOne> I suggest coming back when you have more time.
[21:03] <ginbuntu> I think 5 min is enough to resolve this issue
[21:08] <ikonia> I'll grab the info if you can hang around
[21:09] <ikonia> Pici: are you around / free ?
[21:10] <ikonia> ginbuntu: it appears you where banned due to a build up of bad behaviour and bad language
[21:10] <IdleOne> hello guntbert
[21:11] <guntbert> does "the team" hav an opinion about ubuntu tweak?
[21:11] <guntbert> hello IdleOne
[21:11] <IdleOne> yeah, don't use it
[21:11] <ikonia> ginbuntu: could you give us 5 minutes please ?
[21:11] <guntbert> because lacan in #u is talking very stron about it
[21:12] <guntbert> *strong
[21:12] <ikonia> sorry, that was for guntbert
[21:12] <guntbert> ikonia: no problem :)
[21:12] <ikonia> ginbuntu: you still there ?
[21:17] <ikonia> ginbuntu: maybe best if you come back when you are at your keyboard and have time to chat this through
[21:18] <Tm_T> good night all (:
[21:22] <ikonia> hello guntbert
[21:22] <ikonia> didn't mean to chase you out earlier but ginbuntu had limited time free
[21:23] <guntbert> better now? so it'd be ok to tell people not to use it and certainly to not advise using it? (ubuntu tweak)
[21:23] <ikonia> guntbert: I always tell people to not do it as my personal opinion,
[21:23] <guntbert> I didn't feel chased, but he should have the possibilty to solve his issue in time
[21:24] <guntbert> ikonia: I was asking because I have no experience with this special piece of software
[21:25] <ikonia> my opinion it's a great idea, but it's not well maintained enough, it does a lot of things that don't need "doing" and can cause sloppy problems with things like package removals
[21:25] <ikonia> if someone says they want to use it, I'll always state I recommend against it and why as there is nothing that can't be done without it
[21:25] <Flannel> guntbert: It's not quality software.  #ubuntu should not be recommending it for sure, as far as individual use, we can discourage it, we obviously can't stop it :)
[21:26] <guntbert> very concisely said, thx, I'll follow your example
[21:26] <guntbert> ahh - would it be an idea to have a factoid about it?
[21:26] <IdleOne> seeing how we discourage it's use I don't believe we can support a user that has used it.
[21:27] <ginbuntu> ikonia, can we talk another time? I have a death line to catch. I am sorry.
[21:27] <ikonia> ginbuntu: no problem
[21:28] <LjL> do we know what ubuntu tweak does? i don't think we should be damning it, or especially refusing supports to those who've used it, unless it's known to do unsafe things and cause trouble...
[21:29] <ikonia> I've looked at it a few times in the past
[21:29] <Flannel> From my ops logs, it uses --force-yes, etc, etc.  It's automatix redux.  This may have changed recently, I suppose.
[21:29] <ikonia> it can cause a few problems with situations such as it's package removal technique
[21:29] <IdleOne> LjL: can't say that I know exactly what it does. I do trust ikonia and Flannel's opinions on it though.
[21:30] <Flannel> IdleOne: My opinion today is based solely on evidence from my log grepping abilities :)
[21:30] <ikonia> I've not looked at it in the last 4 months-ish, but I have before, I tried to work with the developer to get it into universe to pull out some of the sloppier problems
[21:30] <IdleOne> well maybe a few of us should test it.
[21:30]  * guntbert opts out :)
[21:30]  * IdleOne will try it.
[21:30] <Flannel> Eh, download and parse it with your brain
[21:31] <IdleOne> I need to do a clean install anyway
[21:31] <Flannel> It's all scripts anyway (or was last time)
[21:31] <ikonia> I'd like to see it's functionality/perks fed into the ubuntu / gnome tools
[21:31] <LjL> ikonia: did they refuse, or what?
[21:31] <topyli> what annoyed me is it does so much that's already done by official tools. it also adds ppa's. if i want to know what those are, i have to go and check, at which point i might as well add them through official tools if it looks useful
[21:31] <IdleOne> Flannel: my brain parsing code skills are limited
[21:31] <Flannel> If you emperically test it, you get into !wfm territory
[21:31] <IdleOne> right
[21:31] <topyli> it also does some window management tweaks that are doable elsewhere. i honestly can't see the use
[21:31] <ikonia> LjL: no, but once they realised what would need to be changed/cleared up it didn't go anywhere
[21:31] <topyli> been a while since i looked though
[21:31] <LjL> i see
[21:32] <LjL> in that case i guess best to discourage it
[21:32] <Flannel> Well, "doesn't do anything productive" isn't dangerous.
[21:32] <ikonia> topyli: that's my feeling push the experience gained developing it into the gnome tools
[21:32] <topyli> that would be a better idea, yes
[21:32] <ikonia> as I recall the developer has serious time issues though
[21:33] <Flannel> But if things are potentially damaging under certain conditions, that's different.  If it automates things (even if people should be doing this manually) and is appropriately written, there's no reason to discourage it.
[21:33] <Flannel> (This is not the case, from what I've seen, the above was hypothetical)
[21:33] <guntbert> !ubuntutweak is <reply> you don't need it and it might do things you don't want
[21:33] <LjL> might want to make that a little more verbose methinks
[21:34] <IdleOne> ha
[21:34] <ikonia> I'm sure we can do better than that
[21:34] <Flannel> LjL: such as <reply>no.
[21:34] <Flannel> right?
[21:34] <LjL> :)
[21:34] <guntbert> LjL: feel free, it was only menat as an incentive :)
[21:34] <topyli> well i don't actually know if it does harmful stuff. i certainly don't think it's the new automatix
[21:34] <guntbert> *meant
[21:34] <LjL> !ubuntutweaks is a tool that automates some things; however, it is potentially dangerous and most of the things it does can be done by the use of other tools.
[21:35] <topyli> (except that some/most users may not know what it means to add a bunch of random ppa's)
[21:35] <guntbert> and thats all from me for today, thank you for your time an input - bye :-))
[21:35] <LjL> i suppose it might be nice (but i'm not volunteering right now :P) to have a wiki page explaining how youc an replicate what it does
[21:35] <Flannel> topyli: we really ought to do a code-review of it in it's current form.
[21:35] <Flannel> (I can do this this weekend, but probably not before)
[21:35] <IdleOne> Flannel: I think that would be best before we go and condemn the tool
[21:35] <topyli> not an urgent issue, we've lived with it so far :)
[21:36] <Flannel> IdleOne: well, it's been done in the past
[21:36] <Flannel> IdleOne: We're basically "revisiting" our position this iteration of checking
[21:36] <IdleOne> Flannel: right but things may have changed and they may have improved it.
[21:37] <IdleOne> like I said I don't believe I have the required skill to check it.
[21:37] <Flannel> IdleOne: We always reserve the right to change our opinions randomly and without warning!
[21:37] <IdleOne> absolutely
[21:37] <topyli> it's a big program these days and does lots of things
[21:38] <LjL> !ubuntutweaks is a tool that automates some things; however, it is potentially dangerous (an informal review of its code is pending) and most of the things it does can be done by the use of other tools.
[21:39] <topyli> ubuntutweak btw
[21:39] <IdleOne> append: Support may not be provided in #ubuntu   ?
[21:39] <LjL> @login
[21:40] <LjL> !ubuntutweak is a tool that automates some things; however, it is potentially dangerous (an informal review of its code is pending) and most of the things it does can be done by the use of other tools. Please don't (ask for) support in #ubuntu.
[21:40]  * LjL rolls eyes
[21:41] <IdleOne> !ubuntutweak is <reply> Ubuntu Tweak is a tool that automates some things; however, it is potentially dangerous (an informal review of its code is pending) and most of the things it does can be done by the use of other tools. Please don't (ask for) support in #ubuntu.
[21:42] <IdleOne> !ubuntutweak > guntbert
[22:00] <LjL> that's why i put it in parentheses... :P
[22:00] <Flannel> !ubuntutweak =~ s/ort in/ort it in/
[22:00] <LjL> Flannel: that doesn't work with the "ask for" though :P
[22:00] <Flannel> LjL: No, but at least the non-parenthetical makes sense now!
[22:01] <LjL> make it "Please don't ask for or provide support for it in #ubuntu" perhaps
[23:32] <ginbuntu> ikonia, still there?