[00:22] <Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/UbuntuHours edited
[01:53] <Algo> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2044285/oracle-hands-office-community
[01:53] <Algo> Too little, too late
[01:53] <Algo> especially as the community went and did that alone already
[01:54] <Algo> but, can anyone say RHL and Fedora?
[11:30] <nightmorph> okay, so tomorrow's/today's thing at Starbucks in La Jolla: what time does UTC translate to?
[11:30] <nightmorph> i plan to be there; i just gotta figure out what time it'll be at
[11:31] <nightmorph> i can never remember how PDT converts to UTC
[11:33] <nightmorph> i was thinking of bringing a couple of small bits of musical equipment and my laptop to show folks; "see, you can use ubuntu to make music, too! not just for your desktop!"
[11:36] <nightmorph> uh....12PM?
[15:55] <projectdp> mornin
[16:43] <nhaines> nightmorph: the UTC on the LoCo directory is a bug, since it doesn't support local time zones yet.  Ubuntu Hour San Diego tonight will be from 7pm-9pm PDT.  :)
[16:56] <projectdp> hi aak
[16:57] <akk> hi projectdp
[16:57] <projectdp> akk* :)
[16:57] <projectdp> isn't there a name for a mistake like that?
[16:57] <projectdp> a neurological term
[16:59] <akk> undoubtedly :)
[17:09] <akk> Re the discussion yesterday about apps and when they read from disk: I just remembered how if you upgrade firefox while you're running firefox, things gradually start breaking in weird ways.
[17:10] <iheartubuntu> does anyone here use Zoho email?
[17:10] <projectdp> hm, interesting
[17:10] <akk> I've never understood why a firefox that's been running for 6 hours already would still be going to the disk to re-read its libs/jar files.
[17:10] <projectdp> iheartubuntu: never really used zoho products
[17:10] <akk> All that stuff *should* be long since cached in memory.
[17:10] <nhaines> akk: maybe it detects a change and marks the cache as dirty.
[17:11] <akk> nhaines: That could be. But since it causes the running firefox to break, maybe that's not what it should be doing. :)
[17:12] <akk> (I guess that depends on whether "it" is the kernel or firefox)
[17:12] <nhaines> akk: I don't disagree.  :)
[17:12] <nhaines> "It" must be firefox.
[17:13] <nhaines> And by "must be" I mean "groundless assertion."  :D
[17:13] <akk> :)
[17:13] <akk> Makes sense, though. It's hard to imagine the kernel replacing libs in memory with something suddenly read off disk.
[17:15] <nhaines> Actually, you're supposed to be able to keep running any program... the kernel keeps all the libraries around until all processes that used to use it have stopped
[17:15] <nhaines> I think it was the XUL chrome files changing that caused Firefox to break.
[17:16] <akk> Yeah, I could imagine firefox noticing and reloading its jar files more easily than I could imagine the kernel doing such a silly thing.
[17:16] <akk> Inside the jars, I'd expect JS as a more likely culprit than XUL, but that's another "groundless assertion."
[17:17] <nhaines> I'm just glad the browser alerts you now.  Very clean.
[17:18] <akk> Alerts you that files have changed and you need to restart?
[17:18] <nhaines> "Your browser has been updated and needs to be restarted" with a restart button.
[17:19] <nhaines> It's an info bar.  :)
[17:19] <akk> Nice!
[17:19] <pleia2> nhaines: the loco directory actually does handle local timezones, they just need to be set on the venue, I fixed SD's venue
[17:19] <nhaines> pleia2: did they get that working finally?
[17:19] <pleia2> nhaines: for events yeah, not meetings :(
[17:19] <pleia2> since meetings are on IRC, no venue
[17:19] <akk> I hadn't hit that yet (just installed natty Sunday). I did get one alert at the end of apt-get that "you will need to restart firefox if it's running".
[17:19] <nhaines> Timezones are tricky.  :)
[17:19] <akk> But it was a text alert, not something inside firefox.
[17:20] <nhaines> akk: yeah, it notifies you there but if Firefox is actually running it tells you.
[17:20] <pleia2> nhaines: yeah, and it wasn't built with them in mind so shoehorning is tricky
[17:20] <nhaines> pleia2: that's another reason the LoCo Directory is disappointing.  :/
[17:20] <akk> It's coming from apt-get? Does that mean I can send any notification I want to a running firefox?
[17:21]  * akk tries to think of why I'd want to do that, aside from "it sounds like a cool thing to do"
[17:21] <nhaines> akk: there's something either in the post-installation tool or in Firefox that detects the change and triggers the notification, but it's not a free form message thing.  :)
[17:21] <iheartubuntu> i notice all the flyers i put up at CSULA and Caltech are still up :)
[17:21] <akk> iheartubuntu: Now you have to put up flyers that electronically update their date to the next event. :)
[17:22] <iheartubuntu> haa! i suppose those will all be removed at some point or people will eventually staple over them
[17:23] <akk> I think somebody must clean those boards off periodically. At least, I've been putting up MakerFaire flyers in Mountain View and it's not all "staple things on top of older flyers".
[17:23] <akk> (BTW, you can get free passes to Maker Faire by posting flyers -- see their "street team" page)
[17:28] <projectdp> i'll donate a laptop lcd for the electronically updating flyers
[17:37] <projectdp> just signed up for maker faire street team :)
[17:45] <projectdp> hey seidos
[18:41] <seidos> hey projectdp
[18:45] <nightmorph> nhaines: ah, okay, thanks for clarifying. 6PM it is!
[18:45] <pleia2> nightmorph: 7pm!
[18:46] <nightmorph> er, right, 7
[18:46] <nightmorph> hello, typo
[18:46] <pleia2> :)
[18:46] <nightmorph> so...what all goes on? this'll be my first
[18:46] <pleia2> drink coffee, eat muffins, talk about ubuntu
[18:47] <pleia2> if you scroll down to the bottom you will see some photos from other ubuntu hours: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/609/detail/
[18:49] <nightmorph> mmm, muffins
[18:51] <iheartubuntu> as with most new ubuntu releases i notice more programs in the software center. for all the gals running Natty already, you can do a search on "cycle" to monitor your cycles. very simple program that can also be password protected
[18:52]  * pleia2 cli person, prefers mencal ;)
[18:53] <iheartubuntu> do u have a link to that
[18:53] <pleia2> package is mencal, http://www.kyberdigi.cz/projects/mencal/english.html
[18:54] <iheartubuntu> is it in software center?
[18:54] <pleia2> yep
[18:54] <iheartubuntu> it is
[18:54] <iheartubuntu> (blog post material)
[18:54] <nhaines> Huh, I immediately assumed you were talking about CPU cycles and almost made a TRON light cycle joke.
[18:55] <pleia2> "gals" is what tipped me off :)
[18:55] <nhaines> Sounds like useful programs, though.
[18:55] <iheartubuntu> i thought "mencal" was to track mens moods or something
[18:55] <iheartubuntu> cause , ya know, we dont have moods :D
[18:55] <pleia2> yeah, but they are unpredictable ;)
[18:55] <nhaines> haha
[18:57] <iheartubuntu> mencal is thru terminal, the cycle one (which is old) is graphical
[18:57] <iheartubuntu> im surprised cycle wasnt in software center long ago
[18:59] <pleia2> there aren't a ton of women doing debian development (statistics! http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWomen/Statistics) and such things tend to get overlooked by guys, these days the debian-med maintains mencal
[19:00] <pleia2> (amaya@debian was the original packager of mencal, ana@debian does cycle)
[19:16] <iheartubuntu> i would think that would be a big plus in getting more women using linux... more apps for the gals
[19:16] <nightmorph> eh, i showed my wife a couple such apps, but after some vague interest, was met with "meh"
[19:17] <nightmorph> apparently the little pillstrip is an adequate calendar
[19:18] <pleia2> iheartubuntu: I am not sure I'd say "big plus" :) but it doesn't hurt
[19:19] <iheartubuntu> and there is an app now in chrome called strawberry op something
[19:19] <iheartubuntu> or
[19:20] <iheartubuntu> i prefer apps that are offline if i can help it
[19:21] <iheartubuntu> still wish i had an easy way to use evolution and keep it synced between my home comp and work comp
[19:22] <akk> That's a tough problem that I never see anyone address.
[19:23] <akk> I guess most people don't care because they just keep their mail in the cloud on gmail or wherever, and depend on being always-online.
[19:23] <akk> (or they have good email discipline and don't keep 100 unread messages sitting in their mailboxes :)
[19:23] <pleia2> there used to be google gears for gmail, so you could sync offline, but that was abandoned by google for some reason (sadness!)
[19:24] <iheartubuntu> i really like evolution and *want* to use it
[19:25] <nightmorph> that sucker's way too slow. plus having to run it all the time just to get mail notifications in the appindicator tray...
[19:26] <nightmorph> the alternatives are thunderbird and claws, though; neither of which i'm happy with. i stick to claws on gentoo, though, since it's a smaller compile.
[19:26] <iheartubuntu> thunderbird is slow for me on any computer
[19:27] <nightmorph> that, too; it was okay for a few years, but it started bogging down far too much, even on an SSD
[19:30] <nightmorph> apparently the only other gtk mail client these days is Postler, but it's not much more than a glorified offline interface for gmail. and it doesn't have thread stacking the way gmail does, so i'm not attracted to its presentation
[20:12] <iheartubuntu> have u heard of atmail? i would love if single users could use it
[21:09] <seidos> i want to use mutt, but apparently it's not easy to configure (surprise surprise)
[21:09] <seidos> gasho :)
[21:36] <nightmorph> hmm, should i bring a monome and little portable speakers to tonight's meetup, or just bring a laptop
[21:37] <nightmorph> i'm just looking to demo what all ubuntu can be used for, but since i've never been to one of these things...
[22:37] <erichammond> Just started running Natty on my primary laptop used for all personal and work tasks.
[22:40] <iheartubuntu> so how is it going?
[22:41] <erichammond> pretty smooth sailing so far.
[22:41] <erichammond> Something I didn't expect is that I am using the keyboard a bit more for things I used to mouse click.
[22:42] <akk> Interesting! I'd seen some people complain that there were fewer keyboard bindings.
[22:42] <akk> Do you print? Printing is the only big showstopper I've hit on natty so far.
[22:44] <nightmorph> i won't be able to use unity, since i do music production, which means i need a bunch of windows visible all the time
[22:44] <nightmorph> thankfully, ubuntu studio made the decision to stick with the default gnome desktop for the forseeable future
[22:55] <erichammond> Printing under natty works fine for me to a network printer.
[22:56] <erichammond> I am hurting with only 4 workspaces, though.   I can't find a way to increase that which could make unity unusable for me.
[22:56] <nhaines> I haven't had any trouble printing to my network HP CJ C5499 either.
[23:19] <erichammond> Installed compizconfig-settings-manager and increased the number of workspaces (desktop virtual size).
[23:26] <nhaines> erichammond: what was your install source?
[23:26] <erichammond> download & burn CD
[23:26] <iheartubuntu> my HP m2727 works, even my canon inket works at home (with some special debs out on the net)
[23:26] <nhaines> erichammond: Beta 2 or daily?
[23:27] <erichammond> nhaines: Good question.  Not sure but I did update/upgrade.  Woud that not bring it up to date either way?
[23:27] <nhaines> erichammond: Yes, but I'm asking for a specific reason.  Is your workspace switcher icon gray or purple?
[23:28] <erichammond> purple
[23:28] <nhaines> Great, thanks.  :)  They've been switching that and the trash icon back and forth in the last two weeks.
[23:28] <nhaines> But yeah, keep updateing and in 9 days you'll have Ubuntu 11.04 final.  :)
[23:28] <erichammond> tash is gray
[23:30] <erichammond> I had been running Lucid, but really messed up my CPAN packages, so figured I'd do a fresh install and beat the rush.
[23:31] <erichammond> Unity is feeling a little like the old NeXTSTEP which I guess makes sense if it has an Apple influence.
[23:31] <nhaines> erichammond: Trash has been moving from a lovely glass trashcan with chrome top back and forth to a stylized "neon glow" icon.
[23:32] <nhaines> sabdfl finally decided to keep the glass/chrome icon for this cycle, though.
[23:32] <erichammond> I've always removed trash icons in the past.  Doesn't seem to be offered as an easy choice here.
[23:35] <nightmorph> both unity and gnome3 seem to be taking away normal configuration options for folks
[23:35] <nightmorph> especially window-management-wise
[23:35] <nightmorph> there's not really a comfortable middle between the two, except "stick with gnome2". or move to a different DE, which is its own bag of issues.
[23:37] <erichammond> In the 80's I used to make many dozens of personal customizations to my X window manager.  Every time I install or upgrade a system I drop one or two of the customizations I used to make until now I'm almost using the default given me.
[23:37] <erichammond> I can see that Unity is going to make it hard for me to use rollover-focus with that application menu moved to the top bar.
[23:40] <erichammond> Perhaps it's just another thing pushing me to use the keyboard (Alt brings up menu)