[00:00] <Raydiation> just tried unity, well its screwed beyond recognition. which one is the official gnome3 ppa? the one from the gnome3-team?
[00:01] <freaky[t]> step2, i think it works now using another usb port
[00:02] <freaky[t]> step2, it shows up in the preferences but it doesnt give out any sound
[00:03] <zolw> !gnome3 | Raydiation
[00:03] <freaky[t]> step2, oh well it does now!! :D
[00:03] <Raydiation> zolw: ty
[00:05] <step2> freaky[t], good :) also, for the future, some people have reported that it has sth to do with usb adress allocation, and that when powered down, all cables removed and all cables removed for some hours that it then worked.
[00:05] <step2> (on the same port)
[00:06] <freaky[t]> step2,  hm ok thanks
[00:06] <freaky[t]> step2, can u maybe also help me with another problem? the graphics driver i got from the additional drivers thing doesnt work right. screen is laggy :(
[00:06] <freaky[t]> when i move windows
[00:07] <step2> freaky[t], mmh, sorry no idea why that could be (if it's working). also I really should go soon
[00:08] <freaky[t]> ok :(
[00:08] <freaky[t]> im looking for a solution since yesterday but nobody can help me :(
[00:08] <step2> freaky[t], maybe try classic instead of unity, if you have an olde rgraphics card? otherwise no idea
[00:09] <freaky[t]> no i have a new graphics card
[00:09] <freaky[t]> ATI Radeon HD 5850
[00:10] <step2> you could try the radeon driver (not from additional drivers)
[00:11] <step2> anyway, good luck! maybe tomorrow I can think of something else
[00:11] <freaky[t]> i tried the one from the ati website but it doesnt work with the kernel version it says implicit declaration of smth. ...
[00:11] <freaky[t]> ok thank you for your help step2 see you
[00:21] <hardcold> where do I view bug reports for natty?
[00:23] <trism> hardcold: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/
[00:23] <hardcold> trism, thank you
[00:26] <phoenixsampras> is ubuntu 11 ready for production?
[00:27] <freaky[t]> how do i install the gnome mixer?
[00:27] <bin_bash> sudo apt-get install gnome-alsamixer
[00:27] <freaky[t]> but im using pulseaudio?
[00:28] <bin_bash> so?
[00:28] <bin_bash> i think everyone is
[00:28] <freaky[t]> ok i hope that is the mixer i need
[00:28] <hardcold> trism, it says gdm log files may contain sensitive info. Such as what?
[00:29] <bin_bash> freaky[t]: it is
[00:29] <hardcold> I'll click "no" but I'd prefer to be useful
[00:31] <freaky[t]> that's not the one who is hidden in the taskbar on the upper right
[00:31] <freaky[t]> i mean in the mini taskbar
[00:31] <freaky[t]> that sound icon
[00:31] <freaky[t]> how do i get it back
[00:31] <bin_bash> in the panel
[00:31] <hardcold> trism, for my bug report about white flashes in menus do I select "xorg" for package or "I don't know"?
[00:32] <freaky[t]> yea how do i get it back in the panel
[00:32] <bin_bash> right click then select add to panel
[00:32] <freaky[t]> right click what?
[00:32] <bin_bash> ....the panel
[00:32] <trism> hardcold: in which menus? (or all menus)
[00:33] <hardcold> trism, all menus
[00:33] <freaky[t]> bin_bash, nothing happens when i rightclick the panel
[00:33] <freaky[t]> how do i stop that i can hear myself in my headphones all the time
[00:33] <bin_bash> hmm
[00:33] <hardcold> the is a seemingly common problem among various GPU's
[00:33] <hardcold> shaun_ and I were discussing this yesteday, and he has the exact same with but has an Intel integrated with open drivers
[00:34] <hardcold> so, it's not limited to AMD prop drivers
[00:34] <freaky[t]> ok it works i dont hear myself anymore
[00:34] <freaky[t]> now the only thing left, how do i get that mixer back into my panel
[00:35] <trism> hardcold: your choice, they can change the packages later if necessary
[00:35] <hardcold> trism, okay, I'll just put "don't know" then
[00:35] <bin_bash> idk wat you mean by mixer
[00:35] <hardcold> trism, do you not have this issue? When you click on a menu and then close it, does it not flash white the size of the menu?
[00:37] <trism> hardcold: no, they just fade away here, with the nvidia proprietary drivers
[00:37] <hardcold> trism, aha. So, what we are getting is a block of white instead of a fade
[00:38] <trism> freaky[t]: the volume icon is indicator-sound if that is what you mean
[00:39] <freaky[t]> trism, thanks
[00:39] <freaky[t]> let me check
[00:40] <freaky[t]> trism, ok ive installed the indicator-sound package but how do i add it to the panel now?
[00:40] <trism> hardcold: something like lp 687567 maybe
[00:41] <hardcold> trism, yes, like that except all the time for all menus, not moving fast, just period
[00:41] <trism> freaky[t]: are you in the classic session or unity? it should just load automatically, but if you are in the classic session you may need to add the indicator applet to the panel if it isn't there
[00:42] <freaky[t]> unity
[00:43] <freaky[t]> trism, ok it loads again thank you very much :D
[00:43] <trism> freaky[t]: you're welcome
[00:46] <hardcold> trism, okay I've created the report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/767883
[00:46] <freaky[t]> ok now i have only one problem left - the graphics driver ... it is laggy and i dont know what to do. ive installed the one from additional drivers and i tried the one from ati website but that one doesnt work with the kernel version saying implicit declaration of something and the one from additional drivers is laggy :(
[00:48] <freaky[t]> can anyone help me with that?
[00:50] <Pilif12p> When I leave my computer idle for ~15 minutes it freezes up...
[00:50] <Pilif12p> it just started about 2 hours ago
[00:50] <Pilif12p> i have to kill x to make it work (ctrl+alt+backspace)
[00:50] <linuxman410> i am running 11.04 but cannot get it to go full screen my hardware is not 3d
[00:51] <linuxman410> i changed it to classic mode and still only half a screen on a 22 inch monitor
[00:54] <vacho> when can I install gnome 3 on ubuntu 11.04 safely?
[00:55] <arand> vacho: Likely never (11.10 might be a better bet)
[00:56] <rww> ugh, there's a bug in the latest apport update that makes it fail to install. lots of duplicates on LP and more by the minute O_O
[00:56] <vacho> arand, how come?
[00:56] <Scowboy> hi, i got a serious problem with my windows and stuff, everything is gone.. they told me to try and use gtk-window-decorator --replace but its not working
[00:57] <Scowboy> can someone help me
[00:57] <nOStahl> hey guys im trying to install openproj.deb
[00:57] <freaky[t]> what is the default irc client for ubuntu+1?
[00:57] <nOStahl> its popping up an error in ubuntu software center.
[00:57] <rww> freaky[t]: empathy, which barely qualifies as an IRC client
[00:58] <arand> vacho: Since gnome 2.3 is in natty, there is always going to be a huge issue pulling in G3, regardless of how nice the PPA is setup (my guess, I don't actually know).
[00:58] <bin_bash> freaky[t]: I use konversation. It works for the most part.
[00:58] <freaky[t]> bin_bash, ok thanks
[00:58] <bin_bash> freaky[t]: i also recommend xchat, irssi and weechat
[00:58] <nOStahl> says the installation of a package which violates the quality standards isnt allowed, this could cause serious problems on your computer
[00:58] <nOStahl> Lintian check results for /home/nostahl/Downloads/openproj_1.4-2.deb:
[00:58] <nOStahl> E: openproj: control-file-has-bad-owner postinst root/wheel != root/root
[00:58] <nOStahl> E: openproj: control-file-has-bad-owner postrm root/wheel != root/root
[00:59] <nOStahl> what does this mean
[01:00] <arand> nOStahl: Well you can always force install it using dpkg, that simply means the packager messed up a bit, that particular issue seems trivial.
[01:00] <nOStahl> k
[01:00] <nOStahl> ya it gives option to ignore and install
[01:00] <nOStahl> I just wanted to know the repercussions lol
[01:01] <freaky[t]> bin_bash, is weechat a console irc client?
[01:01] <arand> the owner of the control should likely have no effect really, though I' not sure if there are more issues with the package, of course...
[01:01] <bin_bash> freaky[t]: i think so
[01:01] <freaky[t]> bin_bash, ok thanks ill use xchat
[01:01] <phoenixsampras> 8 days to release?
[01:04] <lucas-arg> i hope they make it until 28th... i still having some bugs on my laptop minor things but bugs at least
[01:05] <bin_bash> i ahve to reboot all the time
[01:05] <bin_bash> and my internet is shoddy at best
[01:05] <BUGabundo> nn
[01:24] <Moc> 1 week left... good luck
[01:30] <manlymatt83> I have to re-install my ubuntu desktop... is 11.04 stable enough to use or should I re-install with 10.10?
[01:33] <nit-wit> manlymatt83, run ethier one of you can image them in case of a problem.
[01:36] <mrdeb> anyone experiencing blank windows with nvidia, the solution is to increase the amoutn of memory in the bios to it
[01:41] <manlymatt83> nit-wit: ok
[01:41] <manlymatt83> are you running 11.04?  Is it almost usable quality for a day to day desktop?
[01:43] <mrdeb> yes
[01:43] <mrdeb> it works well
[01:44] <ubuntuguy> Can youcopy anhtml code from yahoo site builder?
[01:45] <vacho> i want gnome 3 with ubuntu, fix it.
[01:46] <rww> PPA works fine for me.
[01:46] <ubuntuguy> unity is betterthan gnome
[01:46] <rww> https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3
[01:46] <rww> unofficial and unsupported, though.
[01:49] <ubuntuguy> If you want gnome 3, I'll suggest install fedora 3
[01:49] <ubuntuguy> fedora 15*
[01:49] <dios_mio> i was in "compiz congic settings manager", and I clicked "reset to defaults" and that killed unity!
[01:49] <ubuntuguy> Yeah
[01:50] <ubuntuguy> defaults is gnome
[01:50] <dios_mio> so i rebooted and it is ok now
[01:50] <ubuntuguy> You have to find away to get back into compiz
[01:50] <ubuntuguy> Ohok
[01:50] <dios_mio> well, I first typed "unity --reset" in terminal, that brought unity back, but when I hit ctrl-c in terminal, that was gone lol
[01:51] <ubuntuguy> Wish oovoo worked on ubuntu :l
[01:51] <ubuntuguy> Skype sucks :l
[01:52] <KM0201> ubuntuguy: i have no issues w/ skype
[01:52] <dios_mio> do many people hate unity?
[01:52] <rww> !hate
[01:52] <ubuntuguy> Well, all my friends use oovoo
[01:52] <ubuntuguy> I prefer oovoo
[01:52] <rww> I don't dislike Unity. I prefer GNOME shell, though.
[01:52] <KM0201> ubuntuguy: so its not a matter of skype sucking.. it's a matter of everyone you like using ovooo..
[01:52] <dios_mio> rww, so you login "ubuntu classic"?
[01:53] <dios_mio> bytheway, how often are we to update in beta? it seems every 5 or 6 hours there is another 50 mb of new updates...
[01:53] <KM0201> dios_mio: unity has really grown on me... i like it a lot.. I downloaded a live CD of Gnome 3 today and gave it a run.. it looks REALLY slick.. be glad when it hits ubuntu and is stable
[01:53] <ubuntuguy> NO, I think skype sucks...
[01:53] <rww> dios_mio: no, I installed the GNOME 3 PPA and use Shell
[01:53] <KM0201> rww: has it given you any issues/
[01:53] <rww> KM0201: nope
[01:53] <dios_mio> ohh how do i install gnome 3 in ubuntu?
[01:53] <rww> and it starts properly at every login, unlike Unity
[01:54] <KM0201> it kept locking up on me, causing all sorts of problems.. then i tried to remove it.. and that ended in epic fail.. ended up reinstalling
[01:54] <ubuntuguy> I just installed fedora 15 on my desktop
[01:54] <KM0201> !gnome3 | dios_mio
[01:54] <ubuntuguy> Not a fanof gnome
[01:54] <ubuntuguy> 3
[01:54] <dios_mio> !ppa
[01:55] <ubuntuguy> oovoo works under wine now
[01:55] <ubuntuguy> It even intergrates with the unity bar
[01:55] <dios_mio> you install ppa and then update?
[01:55] <ubuntuguy> nvm :l
[01:55] <KM0201> dios_mio: the ppa link has all the instructions you need
[01:56] <KM0201> dios_mio: actually, the gnome3 link has all the info you need.. https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3
[01:56] <dios_mio> thx
[01:57] <rojikku> I recently installed 11...and it failed? but it couldnt cancel itself or something like that...but anyway now when i try and install stuff i get an error about the kernel not being configured >>
[01:57] <rww> the PPA was non-simple to set up for me. I had to remove gnome-accessibility-themes and install gnome-themes or something
[01:58] <KM0201> rww: hmm, wonder if that was the prob i was having... it must have locked up on me 9-10x before i gave up.. i've had no issues w/ Unity (or previous versions of gnome)
[01:58] <KM0201> Unity has grown on me.. id idn't like it at first, but i like it a lot now
[01:58] <rww> KM0201: for me, the theme was just screwy. no lockups
[01:58] <KM0201> hmm
[01:59] <rww> GNOME Shell uses a different compositing window manager. It might not like your video card.
[01:59] <rww> mutter isn't as good as compiz imho
[01:59] <KM0201> very possible... like i said, when i downloaded the Opensuse/gnome3 live cd.. it worked flawlessly.. i actually really like it.. be glad when it hits ubuntu and is stable
[02:00] <rojikku> GAH! i figured it out, i think o.o it is looking for a 2.6.39 kernal and i have .38.....how do i fix this? o.o;
[02:09] <dios_mio> after i install gnome 3, do i login to ubuntu or ubuntu classic?
[02:10] <rww> dios_mio: there should be a GNOME Shell option
[02:10] <dios_mio> ah cool thx
[02:10] <rojikku> .........>< are my messages even sending
[02:10] <rww> rojikku: yes
[02:10] <KM0201> rojikku: what?  ;)
[02:10] <rojikku> x.x i can't figure out how to get my kernel to reinstall...it needs to be re-configed so it installs with CORRECT kernel version
[02:11] <rojikku> i read the install error stuffs and it has wrong kernel version in there...
[02:13] <rojikku> yeah..................x.x *dies*
[02:16] <rojikku> Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[02:23] <dios_mio> my gnome 3 install failed at the installation of "APPORT"
[02:23] <dios_mio> this "apport" thingy failed to install when I was doing updates earlier too
[02:24] <linuxman410> anyone here have problems with intel 845 video
[02:30] <jcgs> linuxman410: my intel video is annoying me, not sure if it's an 845 though
[02:31] <jcgs> linuxman410: no, it's a 960, but i suspect it's because intel's drivers are shoddy :(
[02:31] <linuxman410> jcgs my intel only shows up on half my screen
[02:31] <jcgs> linuxman410: wow, that's weird. can you screenshot it?
[02:31] <linuxman410> jcgs i have a 22 in monitor and only shows up on right side
[02:32] <jcgs> is it missing half or is the screen squashed in?
[02:34] <linuxman410> jcgs it is missing half i hit the auto button on monitor and still did not fix it 10.10 worked fine
[02:35] <jcgs> can you get to system settings to change the resolution? probably try going down to something low like 800x600 and see if it works then
[02:36] <linuxman410> jcgs the resolution will not change only has one setting
[02:36] <Belial`> does anyone know where you get the url to your sync'd files in ubuntu one?
[02:36] <dios_mio> ok that gnome-3 install thing turned out to be a disaster lol
[02:36] <rww> dios_mio: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/767829
[02:37] <rww> fix should be coming through the pipeline when your mirror updates
[02:37] <KM0201> dios_mio: lol, tried to warn you.. :)
[02:37] <dios_mio> heh
[02:37] <rww> luckybunny: that sounds about right, yes
[02:37] <KM0201> dios_mio: and for what its worth, the "apport" thing.. i just did an upgrade and it appears the fix is released
[02:37] <jcgs> linuxman410: have you tried restarting X/computer? what does that do? nothing?
[02:38] <dios_mio> KM0201, cool
[02:38] <luckybunny> just checking that I don't need to select the many tens of packages back again
[02:38] <luckybunny> otherwise it's a case of writing them all down again
[02:38] <dios_mio> cool rww
[02:38] <rww> ppa-purge is useful for removing the PPA, and xorg-edgers doesn't require selecting packages, just an apt-get upgrade
[02:39] <rww> unless I'm missing something, which I usually am
[02:39] <dios_mio> now, can i downgrade from gnome-3? or do i have to reinstall ubuntu natty?
[02:39] <linuxman410> jcgs nothing
[02:39] <rww> dios_mio: investigate ppa-purge, and have fun with that
[02:39] <dios_mio> thanks rww
[02:39] <luckybunny> edgers is perhaps my most vital ppa atm, because of the age of my AGP card, it's literally the only way I can use compiz (and therefore unity)
[02:39] <dios_mio> the problem is, it seems just not to support my video card, which is kind of old
[02:39] <luckybunny> snap
[02:40] <luckybunny> ;P
[02:40] <luckybunny> I have a GeForce 2 Ti
[02:40] <dios_mio> radeon 2600 HD :|
[02:40] <KM0201> dios_mio: were you able to succesfully remove it?.. i hope you have better luck there than me
[02:40] <dios_mio> KM0201, no actually I gave up on it altogether and booted into windows heh
[02:41] <dios_mio> KM0201, I think I will have to reinstall Natty
[02:41] <KM0201> dios_mio: lol, ouch... at least try to remove it (but have the cd/usb handy..lol)
[02:41] <dios_mio> KM0201, how to remove it?
[02:41] <dios_mio> KM0201, rww says ppa-purge?
[02:42] <KM0201> dios_mio: i jsut tried to uninstall gnome-shell.. that ended in epic fail... if thats what rww said, i woudl listen to him.
[02:42] <dios_mio> heh ok
[03:03] <jcgs> linuxman410: sorry about the delay, was messing around with xrandr and turned off my screen D: What's the output from xrandr?
[03:13] <linuxman410> jcgs what do you mean
[03:13] <linuxman410> resolution
[03:14] <jcgs> linnuxman410: open your terminal program, type "xrandr" and paste the results into the !pastebin, then paste the link back here :)
[03:15] <jcgs> !pastebin
[03:15] <jcgs> linuxman410: does that make sense? i can explain more if it doesn't
[03:16] <linuxman410> hand on
[03:16] <linuxman410> hang on
[03:24] <linuxman410_> jcgs what did you say type again
[03:24] <jcgs> xrandr
[03:27] <linuxman410_> http://pastebin.com/P33Xwr8w
[03:27] <linuxman410_> jcgs there it is
[03:29] <linuxman410_> jcgs is there something  i can do to fix the half screen problem
[03:32] <linuxman410_> jcgs i need to change it to 1280 x 1024
[03:32] <KM0201> linuxman410: well, from the looks of it, it looks like its only picking up 1 resolution...
[03:32] <KM0201> !resolution | linuxman410
[03:32] <KM0201> linuxman410: there's commands there to tell xrandr to try another resolution
[03:35] <jcgs> "Failed to get size of gamma for output default" sound worrying to me, and appears to have been pretty terminal for other people who had it on the forums--they fixed by re-installing :(
[03:36] <KM0201> jcgs: ugh
[03:36] <linuxman410_> jcgs restated x stilkl the same
[03:36] <linuxman410_> jcgs restarted x still the same
[03:37] <linuxman410_> jcgs how do i tell it to do 1280 x1024 on commandline
[03:38] <lucas-arg> linuxman410_: whats ur video card?
[03:38] <jcgs> let's try xrandr anyway linuxman410_ do you know what refresh rate you want? probably 60Hz, but your monitor's menu button will tell you
[03:39] <jcgs> lucas-arg: apparently intel 865, i think
[03:39] <linuxman410_> intel 845
[03:40] <lucas-arg> thats weird.... it should work ok... try adding x-swat ppa and upgrading and restart ur pc
[03:41] <jcgs> lucas-arg: that doesn't have any intel packages in it for natty, does it?
[03:42] <lucas-arg> jcgs: i think they do... but they have there some updated xorg anyways... so i might work... i had problemswith my nvidia card and updated from xswat and now everything works great
[03:43] <jcgs> lucas-arg: it doesn't http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/ppas/27
[03:44] <lucas-arg> jcgs: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-updates
[03:45] <jcgs> lucas-arg: indeed, the package "xserver-xorg-video-intel" isn't listed
[03:45] <lucas-arg> jcgs: wait
[03:46] <lucas-arg> xserver-xorg-video-intel 	2:2.13.901-2ubuntu2~xup~maverick 	Robert Hooker (2010-12-03)
[03:46] <lucas-arg> xserver-xorg-video-intel 	2:2.11.0-1ubuntu1~xup
[03:46] <lucas-arg> i see new packages...
[03:49] <jcgs> lucas-arg: isn't the one in the repos 2.14.0?
[03:50] <lucas-arg> mmmm dont now
[03:52] <KM0201> lucas-arg: which intel device do you have?
[03:52] <jcgs> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/2:2.14.0-4ubuntu6
[03:53] <lucas-arg> i have a nvidia
[03:53] <jcgs> linuxman401_: how are you doing? This might make interesting reading http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1594308
[03:53] <KM0201> lucas-arg: oh.. you had the resolution problem right?.. if so, which nvidia
[03:54] <lucas-arg> KM0201: 320m
[03:54] <KM0201> i bet the nvidia driver doesn't support a device that new yet... did you install/activate the driver?
[03:54] <lucas-arg> yes... nouveau worked better, but after upgrade my laptop is wokrin ok
[03:55] <KM0201> oh ok
[03:55] <KM0201> someone else was having a resolution issue.. just a minute ago, thought it was you.
[03:59] <jcgs> linuxman410_: could you run this command, please: cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[04:18] <fuzzybunny69y> Hey everyone for some reason when I click on certain buttons it doesn't respond but if I use the keyboard shortcut the button will work.
[04:20] <perscitus> Natty broke my system and install Grub2 on wrong hard drive And this was the upgrade option. ITS SUPPOSED TO UPGRADE NOT INSTALL NEW GRUB.
[04:21] <KM0201> hmm, guess he jsut wanted to whine
[04:21] <KM0201> lol
[04:21] <jcgs> KM0201: i think he was having problems, maybe he just got too confused :S
[04:21] <KM0201> jcgs: lol
[04:44] <KM0201> __mikem: i tried the Gnome 3 Live CD today... very slick.
[04:44] <KM0201> if ubuntu can implement it like that, i'll use it
[04:44] <__mikem> I told you you would like it :)
[04:45] <anthony_2409> KM0201, were you using the 64bit or 32bit?
[04:45] <KM0201> anthony_2409: 32bit.. i used the opensuse one
[04:45] <KM0201> anthony_2409: http://gnome3.org/tryit.html
[04:46] <anthony_2409> Hmmm. yeah I only have my 64bit laptop and I cant get it to boot, it freezes at the gnome load screen
[04:47] <KM0201> anthony_2409: hmm.. are you attempting to load it in Vbox?  cuz i couldn't get it to load in vbox
[04:47] <anthony_2409> no this was a live usb, and i tried a live cd too
[04:49] <anthony_2409> is their a Gnome 3 irc channel for support?
[04:49] <KM0201> anthony_2409: hmm,
[04:49] <KM0201> anthony_2409: probably #gnome   would be my guess
[04:50] <anthony_2409> alright cool, i ll check it out. Thanks man
[04:54] <freaky[t]> i still cant get a working graphics driver :(
[05:06] <daniel> anyone wanna help with wireless issues?
[05:07] <daniel> anyone wanna help with wireless issues?
[05:10] <daniel> anyone wanna help with wireless issues?
[05:14] <daniel> anyone wanna help with a wireless issue?
[05:15] <SwedeMike> !patience | daniel
[05:15] <SwedeMike> !ask | daniel
[05:17] <daniel> SwedeMike, i saw other ppl come into the channel
[05:17] <daniel> SwedeMike, sry
[05:17] <SwedeMike> daniel: so state your problem instead of asking if someone want to help.
[05:19] <daniel> i had internet in 10.10 and now wifi doesnt work after i updated to 11.04 i checked avaiable drivers and it says the broadcom is in use but the network manager isnt detecting it
[05:19] <daniel> btw its beta 2
[05:19] <bullgard4> When booting I obtain the message "Stopping save kernel messages". Where did Natty save the kernel messages before?
[05:21] <trism> bullgard4: /var/log/kern.log
[05:22] <Tac_Home> Is there a known issue with flash video playing in natty?  I wasn't having trouble, then after upgrading playback is quite choppy
[05:22] <Tac_Home> tried in both chrome and ff...
[05:25] <bullgard4> trism: Ah! Excellent! Thank you very much for your help.
[05:33] <bullgard4> trism: There is some parallelism of /var/log/kern.log and /var/log/dmesg. For example, both start with "[000000] Initializing cgroup subsys cpuset." Why is /var/log/kern.log necessary?
[05:42] <trism> bullgard4: /var/log/dmesg stops after the initial boot sequence, kern.log continues logging, look at the tails
[05:50] <frybye> when trying latest update, I get the fault report "check your internet connection" when it is working and in fact even when using an ethernet cable.. writting this now on the same netbook - but update says "no internet??" whats to do?
[05:51] <bullgard4> frybye: This is a software error. I have got the same. --  Please try again and ignore this message.
[05:54] <knightautwell> anyone know anything about wireless drivers?
[05:54] <__mikem> bcm43-fwcutter is your friend
[05:55] <knightautwell> when i do iwconfig its not showing my broadcom wifi driver
[05:55] <rww> knightautwell: which broadcom chipset do you have?
[05:56] <bullgard4> !wireless | knightautwell
[05:56] <knightautwell> how do i find that out?
[05:56] <__mikem> lsmod | grep broadcom
[05:57] <__mikem> I think
[05:57] <frybye> bullgard4: is it related to this bug? Just trying again produces same fail..!
[05:57] <frybye> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptdaemon/+bug/659438
[05:57] <rww> knightautwell: if you're lucky, lspci or lsusb will mention it
[05:57] <__mikem> crap
[05:57] <__mikem> it was lspci not lsmod
[05:57] <bullgard4> frybye: Yes.
[05:57] <knightautwell> its not a usb one in an internal
[05:58] <__mikem> lspci then
[05:58] <rww> knightautwell: some internal cards are wired through USB
[05:58] <knightautwell> ok i did that and this is it.   07:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM43224 802.11a/b/g/n (rev 01)
[05:58] <frybye> bullgard4: I will try ".. apt-get --configure -a and apt-get update and apt-get upgrade .." and report back..
[05:58] <knightautwell> but when i do iwconfig it doesnt show up
[05:59] <bullgard4> frybye: Excellent.
[05:59] <rww> knightautwell: have you tried the broadcom sta/wl driver from the Additional Hardware program?
[06:00] <knightautwell> ya i have it activated
[06:00] <rww> knightautwell: Did you restart after activating it?
[06:01] <knightautwell> ya
[06:01] <rww> knightautwell: if you run "lsmod", is wl listed in the left-hand column somewhere?
[06:02] <knightautwell> ya it says     wl                   1959533  0
[06:02] <frybye> with apt-get --configure -a   I get   E: Kommandozeilenoption --configure konnte nicht ausgewertet werden
[06:03] <frybye> sorry for german.. but bullgard4 no prob for you I think...
[06:03] <rww> knightautwell: which interfaces /do/ you see in iwconfig's output?
[06:03] <rww> (all of them, not just the ones with wireless extensions)
[06:04] <frybye> bullgard4: any ideas??
[06:04] <knightautwell> lo        no wireless extensions.eth0      no wireless extensions.
[06:04] <knightautwell> eth1      IEEE 802.11  Access Point: Not-Associated
[06:04] <knightautwell>           Link Quality:5  Signal level:199  Noise level:163
[06:04] <knightautwell>           Rx invalid nwid:0  invalid crypt:0  invalid misc:0
[06:04] <bullgard4> frybye: This would be in English: "Error: command lin iption '--configure' could not be evaluated.'
[06:04] <knightautwell> ppp0      no wireless extensions.
[06:04] <knightautwell> which i think is odd because im connected to the net using my cell phone on ppp0..
[06:05] <frybye> bullgard4: right - but my point is - what have i done wrong/or need to do??
[06:05] <bullgard4> frybye: My advice: Try again later. The downloading traffic is too high.
[06:05] <rww> knightautwell: Assuming you only have one wifi card, eth1 is it...
[06:05] <frybye> oh I see.. if it is just that.. fine.. see you later...
[06:05] <bullgard4> frybye: (And Update manager has errors.)
[06:06] <bullgard4> cul
[06:06] <knightautwell> i thought that it had to be wlan 0 or 1
[06:07] <rww> knightautwell: Nope. Different drivers use different designations.
[06:07] <rww> knightautwell: Broadcom STA uses eth*. I used to have one :)
[06:07] <knightautwell> ok lol i have one more question
[06:08] <knightautwell> why when i install firestarter i get error   Setting up firestarter (1.0.3-8ubuntu1) ...
[06:08] <knightautwell> update-rc.d: warning: firestarter start runlevel arguments (S) do not match LSB Default-Start values (2 3 4 5)
[06:08] <knightautwell> update-rc.d: warning: firestarter stop runlevel arguments (none) do not match LSB Default-Stop values (0 1 6)
[06:08] <rww> knightautwell: because the firestarter package is old and barely maintained. I recommend you use some other program.
[06:08] <Tefad> using xubuntu: why am i unable to drag taskbar items around to reposition them? how do i regain this feature?
[06:09] <knightautwell> you know another one that does dhcp functions?
[06:09] <rww> firestarter hasn't been updated since before dapper, and Ubuntu and Debian have been hacking around problems with it :<
[06:09] <rww> knightautwell: dhcp server or client?
[06:09] <knightautwell> server im trying to make a wireless access point for my psp and i know my wireless card supports it
[06:10] <rww> knightautwell: I use dnsmasq for DHCP. Though if you're just trying to take an existing ethernet connection and share it over wifi, just use network-manager...
[06:10] <rww> !ics
[06:10] <rww> ("GUI Method via Network Manager (Ubuntu 9.10 and up)" on the first link)
[06:11] <knightautwell> only thing is its not an ethernet connection its a dial up connection on my laptop
[06:15] <knightautwell> snyone have any idea?
[06:16] <knightautwell> *anyone
[06:17] <Tefad> knightautwell: what?
[06:17] <Tefad> are you trying to share your internet connection wirelessly?
[06:17] <knightautwell> yes and not ad hoc
[06:18] <Tefad> it was straight forward when i did it in 10.10
[06:19] <knightautwell> what do you mean
[06:19] <Tefad> did you say dialup?
[06:19] <knightautwell> yes i did
[06:19] <Tefad> is your dialup connection already working?
[06:20] <knightautwell> yes
[06:20] <knightautwell> modinfo wl
[06:21] <knightautwell> sorry lol wrong thing disregard
[06:21] <Tefad> ipv4 settings should be set to "share with other computers" in your wireless settings
[06:21] <knightautwell> ok let me check
[06:22] <Tefad> also, i'm not sure how network-manager allows you to set up as an access point. you'll have to get help from documentation or someone else.
[06:22] <Tefad> i won't be a replacement for lmgtfy.
[06:22] <knightautwell> thats what im doing loli cant seem to figure it out
[06:23] <rww> network manager uses infrastructure mode instead of adhoc mode by default, if memory serves.
[06:23] <Tefad> yes, but does it act as a client or an AP?
[06:24] <knightautwell> but when i connect to it it gets stuck at obtaining ip address
[06:24] <rww> I will rephrase.
[06:24] <Tefad> i don't see any indication
[06:24] <rww> network manager pretends to be a wireless router instead of using adhoc mode by default.
[06:24] <freaky[t]> can anybody help me with my ati video driver? it's laggy ... the one from additional drivers ... and the one from the ati site doesnt compile the kernel module says implicit delaration of something ... :(( so i dont have a well working video driver for my ati radeon hd 5850 :((
[06:24] <Tefad> rww: you're describing multiple roles
[06:25] <rww> Tefad: You didn't understand the precise terminology, so I went with the informal one :)
[06:25] <Tefad> i know the difference between adhoc and infrastructure, thank you
[06:25] <rww> Tefad: Then why are you asking me whether a device providing a wifi network in infrastructure mode is a client :|
[06:26] <Tefad> there's AP and Client most with infrastructure. i saw now indication of such in networkmanager's dialogs
[06:26] <Tefad> because adhoc is adhoc. there are no clients and no APs
[06:26] <knightautwell> i just really want to be able to do this i think id be able to do it if i could get dhcp3 server to work
[06:26] <Tefad> also i mean "mode" not "most"
[06:26] <rww> freaky[t]: 1) The driver from ATI's site is not supported by us, you should use the packaged version (which it sounds like you tried to do) only. 2) fglrx is laggier than the (default) radeon driver at 2D acceleration.
[06:26] <Tefad> knightautwell: network-manager should set all that up for you
[06:27] <freaky[t]> rww glxgears also lags like hell the gears dont even rotate
[06:27] <rww> freaky[t]: I have a HD 3450, so ymmv, but I ended up sticking with the driver Ubuntu uses by default.
[06:27] <knightautwell> it just gets stuck at obtaining the ip address
[06:28] <freaky[t]> rww laggier is ok but that laggy isnt normal on my laptop it works smooth
[06:28] <rww> freaky[t]: My less polite descriptions of fglrx include the phrases "hellspawn" and "should go die in a fire"
[06:28] <Tefad> knightautwell: that sounds like it may not be connecting completely. are you sure it's latching onto the wireless? are you using security?
[06:28] <semitones> rww i just installed it
[06:28] <freaky[t]> rww ???
[06:29] <knightautwell> yea wpa2
[06:29] <rww> freaky[t]: fglrx is not a good driver. I do not recommend using it, and vastly prefer the radeon driver that is installed by default in Ubuntu.
[06:29] <freaky[t]> rww the driver just doesnt work right for me
[06:29] <semitones> what if you want hardware acceleration'
[06:29] <rww> semitones: radeon does hardware acceleration
[06:29] <semitones> get nvidia?
[06:29] <freaky[t]> rww what radeon driver? the default one doesnt support my HD screen ... it displays 1024x800 or smth only and doesnt go any higher
[06:30] <semitones> rww: the open-source one?
[06:30] <rww> semitones: yes
[06:30] <freaky[t]> rww what if i want to play games under linux? :(
[06:30] <rww> freaky[t]: Fun. The default one supports my 1680x1050 no problem. I guess your mileage does indeed vary.
[06:30] <rww> freaky[t]: I play games just fine on Linux.
[06:31] <freaky[t]> rww the driver installed by default doesnt work for me either so theres no driver which works for me it seems :((
[06:31] <semitones> rww: if the default supports hardware accel, then why does jockey even bother you about fglrx
[06:31] <rww> freaky[t]: Doesn't surprise me. ATI's non-free driver is crap and radeon tends to take a while to get new card support because ATI is not cooperative.
[06:32] <rww> semitones: because Ubuntu has questionable design choices when it comes to non-free software
[06:32] <freaky[t]> :'(
[06:32]  * semitones thought ati = amd now a days
[06:32] <rww> semitones: correct. I call them ATI anyway because that's what the cards are branded as ;P
[06:32] <freaky[t]> so i can't do anything? :(
[06:32] <semitones> heh -- I thought amd was pretty good about open sourcing their drivers
[06:33] <freaky[t]> im off to bed
[06:33] <freaky[t]> good night
[06:33] <semitones> gnite
[06:33] <rww> semitones: they bought ATI shortly after ATI decided to drop fglrx compatibility for everything before R5xx or R6xx (I forget which). That sort of braindead attitude in a business is hard to displace.
[06:34] <semitones> yeah -- that's why historically nvidia has been a much better choice for linux machines
[06:34] <rww> if you're okay with non-free drivers, yes
[06:36] <Tefad> knightautwell: try not using security to test your network
[06:36] <Tefad> before you dismiss dhcp as malfunctioning
[06:36] <knightautwell> ok will do
[06:36] <semitones> rww: is the default radeon driver better than noveau or whatever nvidia's got opensource?
[06:37] <rww> semitones: No idea, I haven't been paying attention.
[06:37] <semitones> meh
[06:39]  * rww really should take a natty DVD to work and start hardware testing some of the Dells and HPs
[06:39] <rww> s/DVD/CD/
[06:45] <semitones> take a USB\
[06:46] <Tefad> unetbootin = awesome.
[06:49] <Tefad> i'm actually using a unetbootin created stick with 2GB of aufs
[06:50] <Tefad> as my hdd died over a year ago. i keep switching out USB sticks between upgrades
[06:51] <rkvirani> hey all
[06:51] <rkvirani> anyone know how to fix the shadow in natty
[06:51] <rkvirani> its all huge and washed out
[06:52] <semitones> the shadow knows... hehehahahahahaha
[06:52] <rkvirani> uh hhuhuh uhh huhuhu
[06:52] <rww> o.O
[06:52] <semitones> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow
[06:53] <rkvirani> semitones: you're so helpfull
[06:53] <bullgard4>  /var/log/kern.log: "ath5k phy0: failed to warm reset the MAC Chip." /var/log/kern.log: "ath5k phy0: can't reset hardware (-5)".  -- Do I need to care?
[06:53] <Tefad> bullgard4: does your wireless still work?
[06:53] <Tefad> i get that error and have to reboot to fix it
[06:54] <Tefad> usually means i pissed off the wifi chip by hitting the wireless-disable switch by accident
[06:54] <bullgard4> Tefad: I did not test for a long time my Natty wireless.
[06:54] <semitones> rkvirani: i don't see any shadow in natty. you could be more helpful by describing yourself more
[06:54] <semitones> disclaimer: I am generally not helpful
[06:55] <Tefad> bullgard4: to me, getting that error message meant my wifi was no longer functioning
[06:55] <Tefad> it would work up until getting that message
[06:55] <Tefad> reloading the module didn't help
[06:55] <Tefad> restarting networking didn't help
[06:55] <rkvirani> semitones: there is a very opaque shadow around my window (I think its compiz generated) its really washed out and I want to fix it back to the way it was in alpha3
[06:55] <Tefad> is this machine a laptop?
[06:56] <Tefad> rkvirani: are you using gnome?
[06:56] <Tefad> check metacity settings, or advanced gnome settings or the like. i won't be much use after this suggestion.
[06:56] <rkvirani> Tefad: yes. with unity
[06:57] <rkvirani> Tefad: where can I check these?
[06:57] <semitones> oh yeah rkvirani i see it now
[06:57] <semitones> reminds me of mac
[06:58] <frybye> bullgard4: re: I changed the prefered server from "server für Deutschland" to "Hauptserver" and everything works fine...
[06:58] <bullgard4> Tefad: 8 days ago my Natty wireless on a Thinkpad T43 worked all right. After recent package upgrades I received strange /var/log/syslog messages which I do not understand yet. I need to analyze them.
[06:58] <bullgard4> frybye: Ah!
[07:00] <frybye> the notebook is in the process of d-loading a mass of updates now - even the list of updates from the "Hauptserver" was different...
[07:00] <frybye> I get the impression that sbdy running the DE- server is perhaps sitting on thier hands a bit - with the easter hols and so on...
[07:01] <rww> frybye: which server? de.archive.ubuntu.com?
[07:01] <Tefad> rkvirani: i have no idea. i use fluxbox. this is why i said i will now be useless.
[07:01] <rkvirani> heheh
[07:01] <rkvirani> fvwm just got upgraded I heard
[07:02] <Tefad> in other news (the reason i'm here), i'd like to know why i can no longer rearrange my taskbar items (window buttons)
[07:02] <Tefad> in 10.10 i could click a window button and reposition it no problems
[07:02] <frybye> rww am not sure in the gui it gives the choices "server for germany" or "mainserver" as such (in German-) I am not sure if this refers to a single server or a list that is taken one after the other according to load etc.. ?
[07:02] <rww> frybye: yeah, "Server for Germany" would be de.archive.ubuntu.com.
[07:02] <Tefad> now when i drag the things, they just spawn a weird translucent copy of the button and it disappears when i stop dragging
[07:03] <rww> Tefad: in Unity?
[07:03] <Tefad> i use xubuntu
[07:03] <Tefad> i don't know what this unity thing is
[07:03] <rww> ah. No idea then.
[07:03] <frybye> rww - it seems interesting that the list of avail updates was different under main ./. germany+
[07:03] <Tefad> in 10.10 i could rearrange the window buttons. in 11.04 i cannot
[07:04] <rww> frybye: Updates are pushed out to the main server first, then to the country-specific servers. There's a graph which servers each mirror pulls from somewhere.
[07:05]  * madsailor thinks Tefad is dragging disembodied buttons onto rkvirani's desktop, which is causing the strange shadow
[07:05] <frybye> rww - ok so the de one could just be a bit behind the main one.. no prob.. except that the de one did not work at all on the netbook but I got a "check your internet connection" when it was connected...
[07:06] <frybye> rww: and with the main - server - no prob. at all...
[07:06] <rww> (looks like de is about a day behind right now)
[07:07] <rww> frybye: odd. Does that still happen if you switch back to de.?
[07:08] <frybye> well - as long as main works fine... eh no idea - see not pressing demand to switch back at all to be honest.. if everybody went to main would not be cool i admit but a few individuals..?
[07:08] <frybye> now of course there will be no further updates for a while I guess - especially if de server is a day behind! - if loads of other ppl report the same of course.. smthing needs doing ...
[07:10] <Tefad> disembodied.. not quite.. i get "ghosts" but the original never budges
[07:10] <Tefad> and the ghosts disappear when i stop dragging
[07:10] <frybye> see you folks - I am offer here for a bit.. ciao
[07:19] <abhinav-> hey guys I got the latest iso of natty using testdrive last night, I used startup disk creator to create a live usb. But the live disk seems to be having some issues. First of all I expected to get an option to upgrade from 10.10 to 11.04 (http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/how-to-upgrade-to-ubuntu-1104-natty.html), but it wasn't there at all
[07:20] <abhinav-> instead on clicking install now, it directly switched to the "Timezone" selection dialog box, and then keyboard layout and so on
[07:20] <rww> timezone and keyboard layout steps are before the install/partition/upgrade one, I think
[07:20] <abhinav-> at the end, I atleast expected it to ask me about the partitions , but instead, it started the slideshow
[07:20] <abhinav-> yes
[07:21] <abhinav-> and that's it
[07:21] <abhinav-> the slideshow was going on, but nothing was happening
[07:21] <abhinav-> I eventually closed the slideshow window, and it displayed a messagebox that the installation is complete, and I can restart
[07:23] <abhinav-> and yes, nothing was installed
[07:28] <abhinav-> same is happening on running the iso using testdrive
[07:29] <abhinav-> it is not installing
[07:30] <rww> "latest iso" meaning daily?
[07:30] <rww> because daily isos have bugs ;P
[07:31] <abhinav-> rww: yes, I think Testdrive gets the daily isos ?
[07:31] <abhinav-> might be a bug or the download might have been corrupted
 Guys, I can't start Ubuntu 11.04, when its loading after about 3 minutes it states something about an pci/usb port like 3000 times.  this happens to me.  p7h55-m pro motherboard
[07:54] <rwhittle> it starts, usb ports don't power up
[08:09] <perscitus> What open source driver is for ati?
[08:10] <c2tarun> hi guys, I am running kubuntu natty beta2 and I am facing a lot of problem with my network-manager, sometimes it dont scan any wifi network. I upgrade to its latest version it freezes on connection to the wifi network. What should I do?
[08:11] <perscitus> Report it
[08:12] <c2tarun> perscitus: you replied to my msg?
[08:13] <Tefad> c2tarun: try "sudo iwlist wlan0 scanning"
[08:13] <Tefad> or whatever your wlan device is. i assumed wlan0
[08:13] <c2tarun> Tefad: already tried, no scan results
[08:14] <Tefad> what's in your dmesg? anything relevant?
[08:14] <kippi> hey
[08:15] <kippi> I have just updated my ubuntu 11.04 but it's getting stuck on "Starting CPU interrupts balancing daemon" is there anything I can do?
[08:16] <Tefad> does 10.10 work?
[08:16] <c2tarun> Tefad: http://paste.ubuntu.com/596823/
[08:16] <Tefad> did 11.04 work before the update?
[08:16] <Tefad> does 11.04 liveCD work?
[08:16] <kippi> Tefad: yep, it did before tuesday's updates
[08:17] <Tefad> c2tarun: looks like your hardware/driver sucks
[08:17] <Tefad> do other versions of ubuntu work?
[08:18] <c2tarun> Tefad: yup, everyone says broadcom sucks :( still dell supplies that only.
[08:18] <c2tarun> Tefad: yup maverick was working fine, got some other issues but that was not related to network-manager
[08:18] <perscitus> Is it possible to turn off "Avail to Download" crap from launcher?
[08:18] <c2tarun> Tefad: any solution for this problem?
[08:20] <perscitus> Is it possible to turn off "Avail to Download" crap from launcher?
[08:21] <c2tarun> perscitus: what do you mean by Avail to Download?
[08:21] <perscitus> in launcher.
[08:21] <perscitus> Ubuntu
[08:21] <Tefad> c2tarun: look for others with your problem
[08:21] <Tefad> do older versions of ubuntu work?
[08:22] <c2tarun> Tefad: well, lucid never detected my LAN card, I have to install it from outside, Maverick detected my LAN card still I have to install broadcom STA driver for wifi, but natty detected all the cards, but causing trouble.
[08:23] <kippi> ok, now rebooted and it's now got as far as "Stopping save kernel messages"
[08:23] <perscitus> Is it possible to turn off "Apps Avail to Download" crap from launcher?
[08:23] <mikehh> apport pkg is still failing
[08:23] <mikehh> invoke-rc.d: initscript apport, action "start" failed
[08:24] <c2tarun> perscitus: right click on it and configure it.
[08:25] <Tefad> c2tarun: progress seems to be slow then
[08:25] <Tefad> i'm not a wifi expert
[08:25] <Tefad> i tend to have good luck with hardware that is given to me
[08:25] <Tefad> but i don't buy things that won't work well with open source operating systems
[08:26] <c2tarun> Tefad: hmmm... should I install broadcom sta driver? do you think it will change anything?
[08:26] <Tefad> whatever worked in the past probably has a good chance to keep working
[08:27] <perscitus> Is it possible to turn off "Apps Avail to Download" crap from launcher?
[08:27]  * c2tarun installing broadcom sta
[08:29] <perscitus> #11  worst part of Natty is the stupid "Apps Avail to Download" in Launcher. Its unnecessary.
[08:32] <kippi> worst part is that with the new kernel it's not botting correctly
[08:32] <c2tarun> Tefad: can you please explain this error? http://paste.kde.org/16339/
[08:33] <perscitus> kippi,  what?
[08:33] <c2tarun> perscitus kippi: there are many more worst parts :) many guys are facing system freezing problems as well
[08:34] <perscitus> Launcher doesnt match background of panel if  you use light theme.
[08:35] <perscitus> Natty is not ready visually or backend. And it will take months to be ready obviously
[08:35] <kippi> everything works fine when I boot with 2.6.35-28 but with 2.6.38-8 it's not loading, it's getting stuck
[08:36] <Tefad> c2tarun: run "sudo apt-get update"
[08:36] <Tefad> try again.
[08:36] <perscitus> not my problem. Actually, system became stable" when  install ATI driver. It was crashing on the OSS ati driver.
[08:37] <c2tarun> perscitus: Ati driver is working fine for me.
[08:38] <Tefad> i'm relatively impressed with intel's graphics support
[08:38] <Tefad> granted their offerings aren't on par with ati/nvidia
[08:38] <Tefad> but for casual desktop/portable use idgaf
[08:38] <perscitus> c2tarun,  OSS  one doesnt work for me
[08:42] <perscitus> Unity lacks customization of any kind
[08:44] <zniavre> perscitus, that s true
[08:45] <perscitus> It takes longer to open apps
[08:45] <perscitus> It takes two clicks and 6 scroll downs just to reach Xchat in the launcher
[08:46] <perscitus> That is 7 seconds to open one app.
[08:47] <zniavre> i got it in indicator so 1 click and xchat is open
[08:47] <perscitus> Launcher
[08:48] <Tefad> perscitus: does alt+f2 not bring up a run dialog?
[08:48] <perscitus> I cant remove workspace icon either
[08:49] <perscitus> Tefad,  No keyboard use.
[08:49] <perscitus> Workspace icon is a waste of space in the launcher
[08:50] <perscitus> And Ubuntu One should be in MeMenu.
[08:51] <test_user> hi
[08:51] <test_user> anyone in here?
[08:51] <cryptk> I am
[08:51] <cryptk> but I am also at work
[08:51] <test_user> jejeje
[08:52] <perscitus> I remove all the apps in launcher possible except firefox and home
[08:52] <test_user> i have a quick question if i have an older version of ubuntu, do i have to download cd for version 11 when it comes out?
[08:53] <test_user> ?
[08:54] <perscitus> yes
[08:54] <perscitus> or upgrade
[08:55] <perscitus> No option to change autohide delay time
[08:56] <test_user> so i have to redownload all 500-600 mb ?
[08:56] <perscitus> it takes to long to unhide.
[08:56] <test_user> even to update?
[08:56] <perscitus> Either use Update manager or download the iso to reinstall/upgrade
[08:57] <test_user> k cool cuase i have version 9
[08:57] <perscitus> I'm completely realizing that Unity offers hardly no customization to speak up
[08:57] <perscitus> of*
[08:58] <test_user> was thinking about installing, but had doubts if i sould just wait a few days
[08:58] <test_user> for ver 11
[08:59] <iceroot> test_user: and what reason for upgrading?
[08:59] <iceroot> test_user: because it is new? (and a beta)
[08:59] <test_user> i have the ver 9 cd
[08:59] <iceroot> test_user: and?
[09:00] <perscitus> test_user,  I recomend Kubuntu
[09:00] <test_user> 11 looks nice
[09:00] <iceroot> test_user: install 10.04 if you like lts or 10.10
[09:00] <iceroot> test_user: 11.04 is a beta, there is no reason to update to that version (if you are not want to open and fix bugs)
[09:00] <test_user> oh
[09:01] <test_user> jeje
[09:01] <perscitus> test_user,  no customization
[09:01] <test_user> i'm not linux savy
[09:01] <iceroot> test_user: i would suggest to install 11.04 in a vm and check the new version but dont update your current working system
[09:01] <perscitus> test_user,  it takes longer to open apps.
[09:02] <test_user> but i'm tired of windows
[09:02] <test_user> so i should keep ver 9 better?
[09:02] <iceroot> test_user: then feel free to install ubuntu, but as i said, dont use a beta if you dont know what you are doing
[09:02] <iceroot> test_user: you can upgrade to 10.04 or 10.10 if you like
[09:03] <test_user> ok perfect then
[09:03] <test_user> just finshed backing up files
[09:03] <test_user> gonna say bye bye windows lol
[09:03] <iceroot> test_user: and if 11.04 is stable (not at release-day) you can upgrade to 11.04
[09:03] <karlhunt> I have lost my application menu item from the main panel and I cannot put it back
[09:04] <freaky[t]> what can i do if the banshee player takes ages to switch from one song to the other?
[09:05] <perscitus> test_user,  You must not use Windows 7
[09:05] <test_user> i HATE WIN &
[09:05] <test_user> 7
[09:05] <nijabo> http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9519/yodawgiheadulikeunityso.png
[09:06] <perscitus> i love windows 7
[09:06] <test_user> windows xp is still much better then 7
[09:06] <perscitus> never
[09:06] <test_user> 7 looks pretty, but that's it
[09:06] <perscitus> its faster
[09:06] <karlhunt> Does anyone else have problems with panel items failing and asking if they need to be deleted?
[09:06] <test_user> by what 3 secs ?
[09:06] <test_user> jeje
[09:07] <nijabo> What makes XP better than 7 then?
[09:08] <perscitus> Opera 11 isnt compatible with Ubuntu 11
[09:08] <test_user> more stable, compatible with all programs , hardware, etc
[09:09] <perscitus> Windows 7 is more stable.
[09:10] <Tefad> it depends on what you're running and what drivers you have.
[09:10] <perscitus> ANyways, looks like i install Kubuntu 11 tomorrow
[09:11] <freaky[t]> it's really a pitty i cant find any working graphics driver
[09:11] <Tefad> windows xp is nearing EOL. that means it's time to move to something new or be left in the dust as new apps use new APIs that aren't available on XP.
[09:11] <Tefad> anyway why are we talking about windows in here?
[09:11] <karlhunt> dunno i wan't help with my panel items
[09:11] <Tefad> me too.
[09:12] <Tefad> in xubuntu the window buttons aren't moveable.
[09:12] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> hi
[09:12] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> i wanted to ask, is 11.04 stable noww
[09:12] <perscitus> I wonder how stable Docky is in Unity
[09:12] <freaky[t]> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN, no
[09:12] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> i now its not released but
[09:12] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> it is usuable yet ??
[09:12] <Tefad> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN: wait a week.
[09:12] <freaky[t]> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN, it is useable but for me a lot of stuff doesnt work
[09:13] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> ok but i its urgent, i need my pc
[09:13] <Tefad> so use 10.10 and upgrade
[09:13] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> so i cant wait
[09:13] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> ok
[09:13] <kippi> ok, each update they are getting closer, now loads the login background and then freezes
[09:13] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> upgrade on 28 th or later ??
[09:13] <karlhunt> Mine works ok but panel items are broken and it doesnt always shut down properly.
[09:14] <Tefad> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN: go to the site in the topic
[09:14] <Tefad> it will tell you when the release is scheduled
[09:14] <Tefad> "milestones"
[09:14] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> yes my question is
[09:14] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> should i upgrade as soon as released
[09:14] <perscitus> kippi,  Apt crashing with OSS ati driver. Works fine with AMD driver
[09:14] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> or wait two months
[09:14] <Tefad> that is up to you
[09:15] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> ok
[09:15] <Tefad> save anything important before you upgrade
[09:15] <kippi> perscitus: ah, how can I install the amd driver?
[09:15] <Tefad> then if the upgrade doesn't work, you can just reinstall
[09:16] <perscitus> Tefad, I used upgrade on iso, it crashed at the end.
[09:22] <TychoQuad> Hi, after upgrading from 10.11 to 11.04b2, my computer locks up before the boot screen leaves, selecting recovery mode makes it lock up at the recovery menu. Any ideas?
[09:23] <TychoQuad> I meant 10.10 :p
[09:24] <perscitus> Docky seems to work
[09:24] <perscitus> Just put Launcher on autohide, avoid the logo button and I got usable dock at the bottom
[09:27] <kippi> TychoQuad: there are a few of us with this problem, I believe it's to do with Apt crashing with OSS ati driver. Works fine with AMD driver
[09:27] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> !ask | TychoQuad
[09:27] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> no i mean
[09:27] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> !natty< | TychoQuad
[09:27] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> !natty | TychoQuad
[09:28] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> so i can be that it is broken
[09:28] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> it
[09:29] <TychoQuad> Kippi, I have an nvidia card :(
[09:35] <perscitus> Whats with whole libreoffice thing?
[09:35] <perscitus> Open Office is still free
[09:35] <Tefad> perscitus: one word "oracle"
[09:36] <zolw> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/document-foundation-1-oracle-0-openoffice-discarded-left-to-the-community/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+d0od+%28Omg!+Ubuntu!%29
[09:36] <Tefad> oracle doesn't care much for the open source community
[09:36] <nijabo> Openoffice is free (as in beer) but not very free
[09:37] <zolw> and they are discontinuing it now
[09:37] <Tefad> i hope virtualbox doesn't meet a similar fate
[09:38] <perscitus> Tefad,  Not from that link.
[09:38] <Sysi> nm-applet doesnt't see my phone at all on natty, samsung i7500, anything to do for it?
[09:38] <perscitus> Open Office still lives
[09:38] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[09:39] <perscitus> It just wont backed by Oracle.
[09:39] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> LibreOffice
[09:40] <zolw> Open Office will still be around just it won't be supported by anyone. LibreOffice is a branch off from OpenOffice, so whats the problem with it?
[09:40] <Sysi> i couldn't find anything on google, maybe wrong search terms
[09:41] <perscitus> From that article, it reads that LibreOffice will be discontinued eventually
[09:43] <zolw> when i read it it just said LibreOffice will continue as LibreOffice and not go call itself OpenOffice, where does it say it will be discontinued?
[09:44] <mrdeb> is 1104 better than 1004
[09:44] <perscitus> Open Office is simply becoming a community driven project.
[09:44] <perscitus> Which means The two will eventually merge like Beryl and Compiz
[09:44] <mrdeb> what's the point of libreoffice
[09:44] <mrdeb> is it to remove the oracle logo
[09:45] <cryptk> no, Libre includes some modifications from the EOO fork
[09:45] <mrdeb> what do they do
[09:45] <cryptk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LibreOffice
[09:45] <cryptk> has all you would ever need/want to know
[09:45] <perscitus> mrdeb,  OSS answer to Oracles initial reluctance to give control to community
[09:45] <zolw> basically some guys working for openoffice at oracle were worried they were gonna make people start paying for openoffice so they branched into doing Libreoffice which would always stay free
[09:46] <cryptk> since the branch was made before any possible "pay for Open Office" change, LibreOffice would then be built upon an open source license which couldn't be revoked
[09:47] <cryptk> it protected LibreOffice as being a Free (as in speech AND beer) Office suite
[09:47] <zolw> so its just some kind developers making sure we get free office software :)
[09:47] <cryptk> no, it is more than that
[09:47] <cryptk> you are missing the concept behind it
[09:47] <cryptk> they are doing it to give you free stuff
[09:47] <cryptk> aren't*
[09:47] <mrdeb> what
[09:47] <perscitus> They should discontinue Libreoffice now
[09:47] <mrdeb> are they scared
[09:48] <mrdeb> why
[09:48] <cryptk> is who scared? and who should discontinue Libre?
[09:48] <perscitus> Open Office is a brand people know
[09:48] <cryptk> nobody OWNS Libre
[09:48] <Moc> perscitus: if oracled transfered the trademark right to libreoffice, sure they could name it openoffice again
[09:48] <Tefad> perscitus: that's why they have libreoffice, because oracle won't give up the trademarks, etc
[09:48] <mrdeb> libreoffice is the same thing
[09:49] <mrdeb> how is it protected
[09:49] <perscitus> Tefad,  they dont have to.
[09:49] <zolw> they worry its got a bad image now so they want to stick with libreoffice anyway
[09:49] <perscitus> Tefad,  many companies own patents OSS uses
[09:49] <Tefad> perscitus: you're not following...
[09:49] <Tefad> perscitus: openoffice is pretty much dead. most linux distributions are shifting to libreoffice now
[09:49] <Moc> anyway, same stupid thing that happen with ethereal...
[09:49] <perscitus> Tefad,  most distros are dumb.
[09:50] <cryptk> here is how it works, when they forked OpenOffice into LibreOffice, the license of OpenOffice was an open source license (GNU LGPL).  Therefore Libre has that license
[09:50] <Tefad> perscitus: you need to learn more before calling names
[09:50] <cryptk> and later changes to the license of OpenOffice will not affect Libre
[09:50] <Moc> ethereal was a known name... didn't cause a problem to name it wireshark now
[09:50] <cryptk> because as of the time of the fork, they are two separate pieces of code
[09:50] <Moc> all that because someone didn't want to give back the trademark
[09:50] <cryptk> they are related yes, jsut like you are related to your brother/sister, but they are not the same... jsut like you are not your brother/sister
[09:51] <Tefad> besides, libreoffice has more features than openoffice these days
[09:51] <nijabo> Anyone done a patch to hide the Unity Launcher arrows?
[09:51] <rwhittle> is it possible to have borderless windows in natty ?
[09:51] <perscitus> This is Beryl vs Compiz Fusion all over again.
[09:51] <Moc> hope they removed this slowness java dependency
[09:51] <zolw> anyway the name is hardly important - if it has better features and is still open source, it will get popular
[09:52] <cryptk> Beryl vs Compiz is different than Libre vs Open
[09:52] <perscitus> Typical of OSS, never wants to work with closed source and companies. Always wanting to do it their way
[09:52] <phibxr> are maximized windows on desktop 1 supposed to bleed their shadows to desktop 2?
[09:52] <cryptk> Beryl vs Compiz was two groups wanting to do things different ways, Libre vs Open is because a group of people were worried about the corporate owners of a piece of software having plans to charge for that FOSS software
[09:52] <Tefad> perscitus: that isn't true
[09:53] <perscitus> its the constant fighting within the OSS community and companies that keeps Linux and OSS at 1%
[09:53] <mrdeb> is 1104 beter than 1004 now
[09:53] <mrdeb> ?
[09:53] <perscitus> Tefad,  it is true
[09:53] <Tefad> the FreeBSD community works well with closed sourced blobs
[09:53] <perscitus> Tefad,  hence OSX
[09:53] <Tefad> right
[09:53] <Tefad> so what you say doesn't make sense
[09:53] <Tefad> OSX is built on top of OSS
[09:54] <Tefad> and the people that spent a lot of time on the code they borrowed aren't complaining about it
[09:54] <perscitus> maybe i should clarify and say gpl oss.
[09:54] <Tefad> there ya go.
[09:54] <zolw> mrdeb: what do you mean by better? its pretty subjective
[09:54] <cryptk> perscitus, you obviously don't know what the LGPL is
[09:54] <Tefad> also lgpl isn't as bad either
[09:54] <mrdeb> zolw: i mean better graphcics and sound and as stable
[09:55] <Tefad> but LGPL is reserved for special uses like low level libraries and compiler pieces
[09:55] <Moc> I'm more concerned about unity being too early for default inclusion
[09:55] <cryptk> LGPL, it is pretty much, "This software is Open Source, you can use it for whatever you want including SELLING it, as long as it remains open source"
[09:55] <cryptk> Tefad, LGPL is for whatever people sue it for
[09:55] <cryptk> s/sue/use/
[09:55] <perscitus> Tefad,  How many companies own G patents that Linux [distros] uses
[09:55] <Tefad> cryptk: not according to RMS
[09:55] <Tefad> : D
[09:55] <Moc> LGPL is great for library
[09:55] <cryptk> I can write an entire office suite and license it under the LGPL
[09:55] <Tefad> cryptk: sure, you /can/ but that wasn't the intent of LGPL
[09:56] <cryptk> oh wait... someone already beat me to writing an office suite under the LGPL...
[09:56] <cryptk> it's called LibreOffice
[09:56] <cryptk> and OpenOffice
[09:56] <mrdeb> is there a linux distro that only uses vector graphics
[09:56] <mrdeb> ?
[09:56] <Tefad> uhhh isn't openoffice CDDL
[09:56] <zolw> mrdeb: Not at as stable definitely - its still beta. It looks better IMO but thats a personal thing, and sound really depends on your hardware
[09:56] <Tefad> mrdeb: only in the future
[09:56] <mrdeb> zolw: should i install it over 1004
[09:56] <cryptk> Tefad, no, it is LGPL
[09:57] <cryptk> v3 to be specific
[09:57] <Tefad> ah, formerly SISSL
[09:57] <perscitus> Libreoffice is a mistake
[09:57] <Tefad> i don't always herp but ...
[09:57] <cryptk> perscitus, not at all
[09:58] <cryptk> Tefad, no worries ;) we all have those moments
[09:58] <Moc> perscitus: it was the last resort of the community
[09:58] <Tefad> perscitus: get over it.
[09:58] <zolw> mrdeb: depends what you use it for. If you want it to be reliable, don't yet, at least wait until next week when its released
[09:58] <perscitus> Moc,  thats no longer needed
[09:58] <mrdeb> ok
[09:58] <mrdeb> does it run on 512mb ram
[09:58] <cryptk> mrdeb, if you have to ask "should I install this because I am worried what may happen if I do" then you should probably wait
[09:59] <cryptk> perscitus, do you know why Oracle stopped OpenOffice?
[09:59] <zolw> mrdeb: if i remember correctly it recommends 1gb
[09:59] <Moc> perscitus: it still needed... no one transfered the openoffice trademark to the open document fundation (or whatever it called)
[09:59] <mrdeb> so 512mb will suck
[09:59] <perscitus> cryptk, I cant read press releas
[09:59] <mrdeb> ?
[09:59] <cryptk> perscitus, they stopped it because people stopped using it, they were moving to LibreOffice
[09:59] <perscitus> Moc,  Trademark issue is mute point.
[10:00] <cryptk> if LibreOffice go's away, they may start it up again
[10:00] <perscitus> cryptk,  Its not stopped.
[10:00] <cryptk> perscitus, commercial development of it has
[10:00] <perscitus> OpenOffice is community driven
[10:00] <Moc> someone stuck in a while loop
[10:00] <cryptk> it is now, yes, but Oracle still owns it
[10:01] <nijabo> community "driven"
[10:01] <perscitus> Moc,  Im not.
[10:01] <perscitus> cryptk,  so.
[10:01] <cryptk> they did not give it to the community, but it is still FOSS, therefore the community can still develop it
[10:01] <cryptk> If Oracle owns it, they can decide to change the license on it and make it closed source
[10:02] <cryptk> there where would we be... no good options for an office suite unless you have the money to buy it
[10:02] <perscitus> They own the brand, their trademark. They did pay for it. But They decided its better off developed by the community. And they dont want to devote financial resources on it.
[10:02] <Moc> rightnow, with libreoffice, if you want to contribute code, you just need to put it under LGPL
[10:02] <cryptk> while (true); do echo "but why?; done
[10:02] <Moc> in openoffice, you need to give it to Oracle OCA that then put it under LGPL
[10:03] <nijabo> Has anyone managed to hide the launcher arrows? I've been looking for a way to do it
[10:03] <zolw> mrdeb: well i'm running 1gb and i have no problems, so 512mb may be okay. couldn't tell you though
[10:03] <Tefad> do you also need to surrender your copyright to your code to them?
[10:03] <cryptk> perscitus, they decided to not devote those resources because of LibreOffice
[10:03] <trigrou> I have a problem with libgconf2 with unity, now unity does not run anymore the launcher/the taskbar, I can only see the background. It seems compiz crash but the classic gnome works.
[10:03] <cryptk> perscitus, we have been around this circle 3 times now, you are reading what I am saying, but something isn't clicking in your head...
[10:03] <Tefad> contributor agreement or whatever it is companies have these days
[10:03] <nijabo> Perhaps I should just learn to live with the arrows
[10:03] <perscitus> Why doesnt ODF offer to buy it.
[10:03] <Moc> perscitus: it just a name...
[10:03] <Tefad> because they'd rather spend money on developing it?
[10:03] <Moc> perscitus: why waste ressources on that
[10:03] <cryptk> perscitus, why would ODF buy it when they have Libre
[10:03] <trigrou> I have tried to create a new user but I have the same behaviour when running unity, but I have error related to libgconf2
[10:03] <perscitus> Moc,  It not just a name
[10:04] <trigrou> any tricks to reinstall gconf2 ?
[10:04] <cryptk> perscitus, it IS just a name
[10:04] <Tefad> if it forks and all the ODF developers move to libreoffice, what is the difference?
[10:04] <Tefad> it's only a name.
[10:04] <perscitus> cryptk,   It not just a name
[10:04] <cryptk> ODF has LibreOffice, they don't need the OpenOffice brand
[10:04] <cryptk> perscitus, ODF has the code base, that is what matters, the brand is a small detail
[10:04] <zolw> yeh just think of it as the name for openoffice without oracle messing about with it
[10:04] <Moc> Is it you hate french and you dont like the word 'Libre' ?
[10:05] <perscitus> All of you are stuck in your own little world with very little understanding how business work.
[10:05] <cryptk> with all major linux distros migrating to Libre, brand recognition is building itself extremely quickly
[10:05] <Tefad> does debian still have "iceweasel"?
[10:05] <cryptk> perscitus, we absolutely are not... you are stuck in your own world where you don't understand the concept behind FOSS
[10:05] <cryptk> community supporting community
[10:05] <perscitus> cryptk,  Brand is a big deal with people. They know Open Office and they trust it. They dont know Libre and trust it
[10:06] <Tefad> perscitus: that's their problem not ours : )
[10:06] <perscitus> Tefad,  it is your problem
[10:06] <zolw> they will learn to trust Libre if its good.
[10:06] <Moc> perscitus: It was the same thing with ethereal !
[10:06] <Tefad> i use whatever i want
[10:06] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> !offtopic | zolw
[10:06] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> !!
[10:06] <Tefad> i don't see how that's a problem
[10:06] <Tefad> indeed.
[10:06] <Moc> perscitus: I had the safe feeling as you, but finally wireshark is all I know and ethereal is just a pass memory
[10:07] <zolw> ? how is tha off-topic? Libre is in 11.04 and its what everyone is discussing right now?
[10:07] <perscitus> Moc,  I dont trust FOSS.
[10:07] <Moc> safe = same
[10:07] <Moc> why are you here then ? :)
[10:08] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> i have a quetstion!
[10:08] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> no zolw!
[10:08] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> its the channel about ubuntu, not around ubuntu
[10:08] <Moc> ...
[10:08] <Moc> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN: it not a trademark channel !
[10:08] <cryptk> technically it is OT... this channel is for Ubuntu 11.04 support, not debate of FOSS licenses and Oracle bashing, lol
[10:09] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> yes!!
[10:09] <Moc> ubuntu again is just a trademark
[10:09] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> cryptk right !!
[10:09] <perscitus> Ubuntu is a trademark.
[10:09] <perscitus> owned by Canonical.
[10:09] <Moc> you can slap another named on it if we really wanted
[10:09] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> please go out there or i go to ubuntu ops
[10:09] <mrdeb> are you going to be installing 1104 when its final
[10:09] <perscitus> !ask
[10:09] <cryptk> yep... current convo RE: FOSS licenses > #ubuntu-offtopic, lol
[10:10] <mrdeb> do you feel good enough about it
[10:10] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> !offtopic perscitus
[10:10] <cryptk> like my output redirection there... ;)
[10:10] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> !offtopic | perscitus
[10:10] <Moc> just /ignore him
[10:10] <Moc> that what I did
[10:10] <MadCarburetor> Hi
[10:11] <andycc> MadCarburetor, probably 3d if you just installed it.
[10:11] <MadCarburetor> I'm not sure if it's 3d or 2d
[10:11] <MadCarburetor> What's the diffrence
[10:11] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> o.O
[10:12] <Spezi> is there a way to show battery percentage (in numbers) in unity's upper status bar?
[10:12] <andycc> MadCarburetor, 2D isn't on the CD and doesn't get installed by default.
[10:12] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> perscitus HAHAHAHAHHAHA
[10:12] <MadCarburetor> oh, so the one i have must be 3d
[10:13] <Moc> ikonia: what ???
[10:13] <mrdeb> why is 2d unity not included
[10:13] <Moc> he not the one I put on ignore
[10:14] <ikonia> Moc: I know, I used the wrong command
[10:14] <Moc> hehe
[10:14] <MadCarburetor> How do i turn off visual effects
[10:15] <andycc> MadCarburetor, logout, select "Ubuntu Classic Desktop (no effects)" from the sessions list, log in.
[10:15] <cryptk> ikonia, not to be sarcastic... but how can one "clam down" lol ;)
[10:15] <nijabo> Does Ubuntu 11.04 come with Unity 2d?
[10:15] <ikonia> cryptk: I'm learning to type
[10:15] <nijabo> (By default)
[10:15] <perscitus> nijabo,  Yes, i think
[10:16] <perscitus> its fallback
[10:16] <cryptk> heh, my right hand types faster than my left sometimes as well ikonia
[10:16] <nijabo> Ah okay.
[10:16] <cryptk> seems like it is time for me to write that blog article on the different Ubuntu IRC channels and what they are for...
[10:16] <perscitus> nijabo, Gnome3 has really bad fallback.
[10:16] <MadCarburetor> No, Thats not what mean, I want Unity, But i was wondering if you could turn off the visual effects, like how in 10.10 you could do it from the Appearace settings
[10:17] <nijabo> What fallback do they use? (never heard anyone mention Gnome 3's fallback)
[10:17] <Spezi> no battery percentage in numbers in status bar? :(
[10:18] <perscitus> nijabo,  looks like old gnome2 but worse
[10:18] <nijabo> Hmm, is there anyone screenshot of it?
[10:19] <nijabo> Oh I found one
[10:19] <Moc> I'll give a try again to unity when 11.04 is released... but I feel I'll go back to gnome pretty quickly
[10:19] <nijabo> http://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers_years/2011_1/gnome-3-fedora-fallback-mode.jpg
[10:19] <cryptk> Unity runs inside of gnome
[10:19] <cryptk> it is pretty much a Compiz plugin
[10:19] <cryptk> the Gnome3 fallback is a fallback to metacity
[10:19] <perscitus> Unity runs inside Compiz
[10:19] <cryptk> perscitus, that's what I said...
[10:19] <nijabo> And Compiz runs in Gnome
[10:20] <Moc> I'll fallback to the gnome experience then
[10:20] <perscitus> cryptk,  i shortened it
[10:20] <cryptk> was still redundant...
[10:20] <perscitus> I'll fallback to Kubuntu tomorrow
[10:21] <vish> haha!
[10:21] <MadCarburetor> Unity's dash thingy was much better in 10.10 netbook edition
[10:21] <perscitus> MadCarburetor,  true but worthless on desktop
[10:21] <cryptk> at work I am on 10.10 with Gnome2 but at home I am on 11.04 with Gnome3 and Gnome Shell
[10:21] <perscitus> vish,  irony isnt it
[10:22] <Moc> Gubuntu
[10:22] <MadCarburetor> 11.04's dash is rubbish, I like the concept but they haven't done it very well.
[10:22] <cryptk> I agree, Unity is great on a netbook, or any smaller screen laptop, I don't like it that much on a Desktop though
[10:22] <perscitus> cryptk,  Ill true gnome3 in 11 before i fallback
[10:22] <Moc> MadCarburetor: I think it ok for home user
[10:22] <Moc> ad a developper, I find the interface really limiting
[10:22] <cryptk> perscitus, that is what I have done, I run Gnome3 with Gnome Shell, no fallback at all
[10:23] <perscitus> cryptk,  but what i saw in fc15, its hard to customize it
[10:23] <MadCarburetor> It's good on a desktop too, But the dash could be a little better
[10:23] <andycc> I miss my GNOME menu. At least I could add items to that one without being root.
[10:23] <MadCarburetor> It feels a bit too cluttered
[10:23] <MadCarburetor> should be a bit more simple
[10:23] <perscitus> cryptk,  that default theme is god aweful
[10:23] <cryptk> perscitus, it is for now because it is brand new, but GnomeShell is mostly written in javascript, so technically it is amazingly easy to customize
[10:23] <cryptk> give it some time for people to come out with all the cool stuff
[10:23] <Moc> anyway back to sleep
[10:23] <perscitus> gnome2 themes still work in it
[10:23] <MadCarburetor> I hope they improve it in 11.10
[10:24] <perscitus> I bet by Gnome 3.5, it would be rock solid
[10:25] <andycc> Gnome will never reach 3.5, they don't want KDE-looking version numbers.
[10:25] <cryptk> perscitus, yep, the themes do, I was speaking more of things like Compiz, there is no compiz replacement for it yet
[10:25] <cryptk> andycc, there will likely be a Gnome v3.5, but it will be branded as Gnome3
[10:25] <MadCarburetor> Can i turn of some of the visual effects in Unity? Like shadows
[10:25] <cryptk> Just like on my work desktop it is Gnome v2.32, but it is branded as Gnome2
[10:26] <perscitus> I know one thing Canonical needs to do... drop the 700mb iso requirement
[10:26] <andycc> MadCarburetor, install compizconfig-settings-manager...
[10:26] <Tm_T> perscitus: Canonical can decide cd:s can take more?
[10:26] <g0rby> Does anyone know how i might get the context menu onto the top pannel, without useing the new menu system?
[10:26] <andycc> ... go to the Window Decorations plugin, and set the drop shadow to 0
[10:26] <perscitus> Drop CDs
[10:27] <Tm_T> perscitus: you can use DVD already, what's the problem?
[10:27] <g0rby> I really like that feature, but hate the new menu, so dropped back to classic
[10:27] <MadCarburetor> How do i install it, will it be in the software centre
[10:27] <perscitus> g0rby, its called appmenu
[10:27] <andycc> MadCarburetor, yes, as "advanced desktop settings manager" or something like that.
[10:28] <g0rby> cool, ty
[10:28] <MadCarburetor> ok, i'll try it, thanks
[10:28] <Tefad> i use xubuntu. is there any way to restore my ability to reposition window buttons? 10.10 let me, but 11.04 doesn't
[10:28] <perscitus> power button on upper right is borken
[10:28] <perscitus> broken. must love betas
[10:29] <g0rby> imo, the new menu bar is cool, but takes way too much screen space
[10:29] <perscitus> i found myself a bug
[10:29] <Tefad> by reposition, i mean drag and drop.
[10:29] <perscitus> wheresmy bug spray
[10:29] <perscitus> Whose got expose ?
[10:29] <MadCarburetor> When 11.04 is out of beta will i have to redownload the iso download it again
[10:30] <andycc> perscitus, ctrl-alt-del, logout, login, see if it remains.
[10:30] <MadCarburetor> ?
[10:30] <MadCarburetor> *and install it again
[10:30] <andycc> MadCarburetor, no, you'll get automatic updates.
[10:30] <perscitus> andycc,  i goto wall screen. fix
[10:30] <MadCarburetor> oh, that's good!
[10:31] <perscitus> oh wait. was fixed now back
[10:31] <andycc> perscitus, nice, I broke it too.
[10:31] <andycc> Oh, look, it's fixed. I opened a menu.
[10:31] <perscitus> andycc,  I put expose to activate on upper right and when expose is on, and you click menu, its stuck
[10:32] <cryptk> MadCarburetor, you can just keep your updates installed
[10:32] <cryptk> once 11.04 is released, if you install all updates you will be on the official release
[10:32] <cryptk> no need to re-install
[10:32] <perscitus> Whats what i hate about corners in compiz, its too small of an activation area
[10:32] <cryptk> perscitus, in Gnome3/Gnome Shell that is fixed
[10:32] <cryptk> at least on the theme I am using
[10:32] <perscitus> cryptk,  thats not funny
[10:33] <cryptk> the "drag area" is configured on a per-theme basis
[10:33] <cryptk> perscitus, I didn't mean it to be funny, it is fixed, at least in the default theme
[10:33] <perscitus> default theme sucks
[10:33] <cryptk> perscitus, then make a better one
[10:33] <perscitus> too much waste space
[10:33] <cryptk> I personally like the blue stripes
[10:33] <perscitus> or goto gnome look
[10:34] <cryptk> perscitus, what do you mean by wasted space
[10:34] <perscitus> Metacity one
[10:34] <perscitus> and gtk theme
[10:34] <cryptk> perscitus, http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb50/crypt1029/Screenshot.png
[10:34] <cryptk> no wasted space there
[10:35] <perscitus> open nautilus
[10:35] <andycc> cryptk, the window decoration wastes vertical space
[10:35] <perscitus> andycc,  thank you
[10:35] <cryptk> so change the theme
[10:35] <perscitus> i doubt docky works in gnome3?
[10:35] <andycc> perscitus, it should work just fine.
[10:36] <cryptk> if you don't like the stock one... at 1680x1050 I have plenty of room, you may not, that is why you can change themes
[10:36] <perscitus> i still cant get power menu back
[10:36] <cryptk> but the "drag area" is configured in the theme though, so you can adjust the corner drag area for whatever theme you want
[10:36] <perscitus> cryptk,  i like docky for its active app icons. thats it
[10:36] <andycc> perscitus, on Unity? Just click on a menu or indicator.
[10:36] <linuxtech> Is it too late to get a firefox-3.6 package into the official 11.04, firefox4 is too new and hasn't been as stable?  I am going to stick with 3.6 for 6 month+ probably.
[10:37] <Tefad> andycc: you know much about xfce changes in 11.04?
[10:37] <perscitus> andycc,  duh, i clicked another menu its fixed. its still a bug
[10:37] <andycc> Tefad, nope, sorry.
[10:37] <perscitus> Tefad,  isnt it easier just to goto xfce site?
[10:38] <andycc> !xfce | Tefad
[10:38] <perscitus> from the site, xfce had backend changes.
[10:38] <step21> freaky[t], how are your graphics?
[10:39] <Tefad> goto isn't in english
[10:39] <perscitus> KDE 4.6 is back end changes too
[10:39] <cryptk> linuxtech, they aren't going to change anything major like that this late in the release cycle, but you can feel free to install and sue whatever you want
[10:40] <perscitus> they did add launcher icons to panel though. Windows 7 copycat anyone?
[10:40] <linuxtech> It's not major, just a package name change for the older one.
[10:40] <step21> linuxtech, how is ff4 not stable? prob. more stable then 3.6
[10:41] <linuxtech> Then in the next release or two they make a transitional package, they have done it before.
[10:41] <cryptk> linuxtech, that is major, it isn't just changing the name of a package, it is replacing one version of something with another
[10:41] <g0rby> just read up on appmenu
[10:41] <Tefad> my problem is with the change in "window buttons"
[10:42] <perscitus> linuxtech,  you must love using flash
[10:42] <linuxtech> Well it crashes and not all the extensions I use have been ported yet.  My father and I both tried it from the ppa and went back to the 3.6.
[10:42] <linuxtech> I hate flash.
[10:42] <step21> linuxtech, I use it on 3 different os's and it hasn't crashed once, unlike 3.6
[10:42] <cryptk> linuxtech, you and your father can use whatever you want, that's the beautiful thing about linux and FOSS in general... if you don't like it, change it!
[10:42] <g0rby> mabe it would be cool to add a window button that triggered enabling appmenu for specific windows
[10:42] <perscitus> i dont see ff 3.6 in synaptic
[10:43] <nijabo> I wish I could squeeze these launcher icons down to 24px or something
[10:43] <nijabo> :P
[10:43] <linuxtech> Yes, but I would rather the mozilla security team do it for me, rather than repackaging their stuff.  It's and easy script to take the 10.10 firefox and change the package name.
[10:44] <perscitus> Where would Ubuntu be if it choose BSD over Linux?
[10:44] <Tefad> perscitus: PCBSD or so?
[10:44] <Tefad> : P
[10:44] <perscitus> Tefad,  Roughly same place :P
[10:45] <mns`> Technoviking: stucked at some place =P
[10:45] <Tefad> ehhh.. i dunno about all the commodity hardware support
[10:45] <perscitus> Tefad,  Since BSD does use gnome/kde
[10:45] <Tefad> if you think linux has hit and miss hardware support, try using FreeBSD
[10:45] <step21> nijabo, 32px not small enough?
[10:45] <perscitus> Tefad,  thats BSD worst issue.
[10:45] <step21> perscitus, nirvana?
[10:46] <nijabo> step21, I'm not sure... probably not.
[10:46] <nijabo> step21, I'm sitting on an 10" screen
[10:46] <perscitus> nijabo, I got exclusive club. I call it the " i want my launcher icons smaller"
[10:46] <Tefad> i removed launcher
[10:46] <Tefad> i use alt+f2 and start typing, instead
[10:46] <step21> nijabo, yeah ... that's why on my small screens I always use autohide ...
[10:46] <Tefad> much faster
[10:47] <perscitus> Tefad,  you can remove launcher?
[10:47] <Tefad> the little panel at the bottom?
[10:47] <perscitus> left
[10:47] <Tefad> remember i use xfce
[10:47] <step21> that's another launcher ...
[10:48] <perscitus> I wish Unity launcher can be transparent too
[10:48] <andycc> perscitus, the panel or the dock?
[10:48] <perscitus> okay, dock
[10:48] <andycc> It *is* transparent.
[10:49] <mns`> perscitus:  ccsm -> Ubuntu Unity Plugin -> Experimental -> Launcher icon size
[10:49] <perscitus> Panel cant be transparent cuz of the text.
[10:49] <nijabo> Exclusive, eh?
[10:49] <andycc> perscitus, yes it can be
[10:49] <perscitus> mns`,  And 32 is too big
[10:49] <nijabo> step21, yeah I suppose I could do that, but I really like having the launcher visable
[10:49] <mns`> perscitus: oh, i see...
[10:49] <perscitus> Panel cant be transparent  ---------- cuz of the text. ------------
[10:50] <perscitus> Transparent panel makes it harder to read text
[10:50] <andycc> ...?
[10:50] <step21> maybe he means half-transparent like it can be on os-x or on win7 with aero
[10:50] <andycc> Unless you have a dark background or light theme.
[10:51] <perscitus> depends on wallpaper too
[10:51] <perscitus> I would like dock transparent so its just icons there and no blank black space
[10:52] <perscitus> And Dock needs actualy App menu at least like Gnome3
[10:52] <Tefad> if anyone is interested, the crap i've been bugging you about is already reported upstream, here: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7142
[10:54] <perscitus> this is better http://jasonbutz.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Applications-All-1024x640.png then what Unity has to offten
[10:54] <perscitus> offer
[10:55] <andycc> perscitus, this is even better: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Mac_os_x_lion_dev_beta_preview_by_xxmatt69xx1-d3cyrbh.png.png (except that it doesn't have a search function)
[10:57] <perscitus> andycc,  ios or android app launcher :P
[10:58] <perscitus> I hate Dock Window that pops open.
[10:59] <perscitus> The border is huge and allot of wasted white space
[10:59] <andycc> Oh, I just remembered. Is there such thing as a guide to writing Unity lenses?
[10:59] <andycc> s/such/any such/g
[11:00] <perscitus> lenses?
[11:01] <perscitus> Dock color icons are ugly
[11:01] <vish> andycc: yup, there is..
[11:01] <andycc> You know, like the Applications lens, or the Files and Folders lens. They used to be called places, but then someone declared that 'lens' sound cooler.
[11:02] <step21> perscitus, use faenza icons ... works really well with unity
[11:02] <vish> andycc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses
[11:02] <perscitus> step21,  the background colors
[11:03] <vish> if some ops are around » http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4795149014 , might be worth putting in the topic..
[11:03] <perscitus> technically, backlight colors for dock
[11:03] <andycc> vish, I did find that. My brain imploded after trying to read it. (maybe I'm just not smart enough to grasp all that)
[11:04] <step21> perscitus, but you said icons ... otherwise it is the same color as before or whatever your theme says ... so what givs?
[11:04] <vish> andycc: try reading again, when you are free.. if it is complicated.. drop by on #ayatana and ask Questions.. someone who knows might answer..
[11:04] <andycc> perscitus, you can turn off the colors completely.
[11:05] <andycc> vish, okay, I'll try ^^
[11:05] <perscitus> andycc, almost.  they still show when you open an app
[11:05] <perscitus> Im trying to find gnome3 ppa
[11:06] <step21> perscitus, good luck... last time i heard there were only livecds
[11:06] <cryptk> perscitus, step21 https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3
[11:07] <zniavre> vish,  that s a good website full of good infos for newcomer in unity thank you
[11:07] <vish> yw..
[11:07] <andycc> cryptk, installing from there breaks Unity, doesn't it?
[11:07] <nijabo> perscitus, try the Gnome3 LiveCD instead
[11:07] <cryptk> andycc, yes
[11:07] <nijabo> There's one on gnome3.com based on Fedora, won't break your system
[11:08] <cryptk> I am unable to successfully load into either Unity or Ubuntu Classic with that PPA installed
[11:08] <nijabo> Yeah Gnome3 breaks Unity
[11:08] <cryptk> I could probably get them to work if I recompiled stuff from source, but I haven't looked into it too much
[11:08] <andycc> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/10/install-gnome-shell-from-git-in-ubuntu.html
[11:08] <andycc> Shouldn't break anything.
[11:08] <nijabo> I've heard it does from a number of sources.
[11:08] <perscitus> nijabo,  i did. I want real thing now
[11:09] <nijabo> Ok
[11:09] <andycc> No, the tutorial I linked to.
[11:09] <perscitus> i dont care about breaking unity... aint keeping it
[11:09] <nijabo> Ok
[11:10] <step21> perscitus, you know that there were a lot of radical changes in gnome3w gnome shell as well, right?
[11:10] <perscitus> step21,  im not keeping it either.
[11:10] <nijabo> He said he had used the LiveCD
[11:10] <nijabo> What are you up to perscitus? :P
[11:10]  * perscitus is falling back to kde
[11:11] <step21> urgh, kde
[11:11] <nijabo> Why are you installing Gnome3 then? hah
[11:11] <step21> ^^
[11:11] <perscitus> play thing
[11:11] <nijabo> ^ what step21 said
[11:11] <nijabo> XFCE is my fallback plan for everything
[11:11] <andycc> perscitus, if you want KDE install openSUSE.
[11:11] <nijabo> How is openSUSEs Gnome?
[11:11] <perscitus> oh thats bad. i thought nijabo  said what stupid said cuz of the arrow pointing up
[11:11] <andycc> Dunno what state KDE is in on Ubuntu, but the last time I tried it, it sucked.
[11:12] <andycc> nijabo, looks like Windows.
[11:12] <perscitus> andycc,  that explains why i like it so much
[11:12] <nijabo> I'm not fond of their design concepts.
[11:13] <nijabo> I've always liked Gnome, coming from OS X originally it made a lot sense to me that it was pretty minimal and clean.
[11:13] <nijabo> KDE just feels cluttered in all ways for me.
[11:13] <perscitus> gnome3 and unity are tablet focused it seems. Someone should point out Android owns it already to them
[11:13] <nijabo> Like that yellow star that seems to haunt me everytime I try KDE
[11:13] <nijabo> Gnome3 and unity tablet focused?
[11:13] <cryptk> perscitus, gnome3 works great on a desktop, it would likely work great on a tablet as well, but it works awesome on my home PC
[11:13] <hardcold> nijabo,  OSX, yum
[11:14] <perscitus> Unity did start out on UNE
[11:14] <nijabo> Not sure I'm following your reasoning perscitus you seem to have missed a few steps.
[11:14] <nijabo> Netbooks aren't tablets though
[11:14] <nijabo> They are small laptops
[11:14] <perscitus> cryptk,  you have to remove gnome session?
[11:14] <cryptk> perscitus, I do agree that Unity is much better on a tablet/netbook than a desktop though
[11:14] <hardcold> so is installing gnome quite tricky?
[11:14] <perscitus> netbooks are dead.
[11:14] <nijabo> Mine works
[11:14] <cryptk> perscitus, I only have one working session at the moment, Gnome Shell
[11:15] <step21> cryptk, netbook, yes, tablet would be slow I think because of typing ...
[11:15] <hardcold> perscitus, I just got a netbook, the x120e, and it rocks TYVM
[11:15] <perscitus> you removed old one for gnome3-session?
[11:15] <andycc> step21, ever seen the HTC Shift?
[11:15] <g0rby> awn + appmenu = osx? =>
[11:15] <cryptk> step21, no matter what, typing on a tablet is slower than a keyboard
[11:15] <perscitus> step21,  Ever heard of bluetooth. its got keyboards.
[11:15] <nijabo> g0rby, OSX withput the prestige and hipster cred ;)
[11:16] <nijabo> cryptk, no it does not have to be
[11:16] <step21> andycc, that's not a tablet ... but a mini-netbook
[11:16] <nijabo> I tried an iPad yesterday it was a charm to type on
[11:16] <nijabo> It HAS a keyboard
[11:16] <nijabo> It's just digital
[11:16] <andycc> g0rby, OSX rocks because it's usable, integrated and consistent. And has usable, integrated and consistent apps.
[11:16] <g0rby> on my black netbook i have a decepticon sticker instead of an apple =>
[11:16] <step21> cryptk, yeah, but say with android/ios normally you don't type, unity on the other hand is fast if you type
[11:16] <g0rby> andycc: thats what linux needs
[11:16] <cryptk> nijabo, if the keyboard is on the screen, then the tablet is either at a good angle for typing, or a good angle for viewing
[11:17] <g0rby> in the desktop world
[11:17] <andycc> step21, yes it is a tablet, but it has a hw keyboard.
[11:17]  * perscitus took the plunge after cryptk 
[11:17] <g0rby> but i feel its getting pretty close
[11:17] <step21> perscitus, sure but you then always have to carry it, might as well get a netbook ^^
[11:17] <perscitus> step21,  I swype most of the time in android
[11:17] <cryptk> those are two mutually exclusive angles, a tablet can't be at both... if you put a hinge on it so it can be, then it stops being a tablet and becomes a laptop
[11:18] <perscitus> step21,  and They will make small hand held bluetooth eventually like logitech
[11:18] <nijabo> I'm with andycc on that one, a lot of the design ideas they've gone with have worked well... and the consistency and the usability rocks.
[11:18] <step21> andycc, a tablet that runs windows?
[11:18] <g0rby> andycc: closed source comprimises that sometimes tho
[11:18] <nijabo> ontop of that OSX and Linux is kind of standard when it come to universities
[11:19] <g0rby> andycc: tried explaining to the average mac person why the have all the itunes DRM / store type problems
[11:19] <g0rby> andycc: thats not consistent
[11:19] <andycc> g0rby, closed-source = one choice (bad), consistency (good). open = multi-choice (good), no consistency (bad). The notable exception is Windows, which sucks all-around.
[11:19] <perscitus> step21, diNovo Mini™
[11:20] <perscitus> step21,  or this, http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards/keyboard/devices/keyboard-case
[11:20] <hardcold> gorby, what DRM problems?
[11:20] <g0rby> people who forget their pw, and tie authorised media to the wrong account, things like that
[11:20] <step21> perscitus, sure if it works for you. or get the motoral phone that can also be a laptop ...
[11:21] <g0rby> pretty normal
[11:21] <hardcold> you mean for a video?
[11:21] <hardcold> iTunes music has been DRM free for years
[11:21] <andycc> hardcold, http://defectivebydesign.org/
[11:22] <perscitus> step21, diNovo Mini™ works on android too
[11:22] <g0rby> hmm, my mom still gets loads of messages about not being able to play certain files that were authorised on her old accounts
[11:22] <andycc> Music might be DRM-free, but what about movies, TV shows, apps, etc.?
[11:22] <zolw> i wish they'd brought i n the DRM earlier though, I hate having unplayable music!
[11:22] <g0rby> and a lot of my friends etc
[11:22] <zolw> *DRM-free
[11:23] <g0rby> and lots of external players dont like m4a
[11:23] <g0rby> the list is long
[11:23] <g0rby> ultimately, you purchaced the data, you expect to own it. thats where the consistency breaks down
[11:23] <perscitus> I wish itunes let people burn dvds of movies they buy or amazon vod
[11:23] <nijabo> But iTunes isn't OSX
[11:24] <g0rby> true
[11:24] <nijabo> There's iTunes for Windows as well
[11:24] <g0rby> But, its what slipstreamed a lot of users into mac world
[11:24] <nijabo> True
[11:24] <nijabo> iTunes + iPod combo really helped their marketshare
[11:24] <th^^> os x = :(
[11:25] <nijabo> If my university offers me a free MacBook
[11:25] <nijabo> I'm not going to pass it down
[11:26] <nijabo> I doubt I'll buy one myself though
[11:26] <th^^> why
[11:26] <th^^> just install linux on it =)
[11:26] <nijabo> lol
[11:26] <perscitus> But Android killed their iOS marketshare
[11:26] <g0rby> its the same with loads of content delivery systems, the companys all want their own slice of the pie, so constantly reinvent the wheel
[11:26] <th^^> it's good hardware but os is #€%&/()
[11:26] <andycc> th^^, why?
[11:26] <andycc> (except the DRM and general Apple evilness)
[11:27] <th^^> illogical ui, sub-par 3D performance. and the damned ui again
[11:28] <th^^> and the damned mouse acceleration which can't be configured (and none of the available hacks really remove it, just minimize)
[11:28] <th^^> bad java support
[11:29] <nijabo> illogical UI?
[11:29] <th^^> yes
[11:29] <nijabo> Weird
[11:29] <andycc> Illogical UI, meaning stuff like the close button not quitting, etc?
[11:29] <andycc> (I hear Canonical is a fan of that approach)
[11:29] <th^^> i don't find it very logical when some apps (talking about apples *own* softies) quit, sometimes close
[11:29] <nijabo> Cmd+Q
[11:29] <th^^> not talking about this idiotic "zoom" feature which sometimes "zooms" to "content" (annoying) and sometimes maximizes to fullscreen
[11:30] <nijabo> always completely closes an app
[11:30] <nijabo> Well
[11:30] <step21> andycc, close button thing is pretty hand if you use it right
[11:30] <th^^> nijabo: typing on unibody macbook pro, i know )
[11:30] <th^^> nijabo: that's no excuse for ui to behave randomly different, anyway
[11:30] <nijabo> My MacBook Pro never behaved randomly different
[11:30] <nijabo> But well well
[11:31] <nijabo> Difference of opinion
[11:31] <andycc> step21, yes, but when I hit close on Safari, I freaking want it to close and stop eating my limited RAM.
[11:31] <step21> just use cmd+q
[11:32] <th^^> nijabo: randomly as in app may or may not quit/close from it instead of having expected behavior in all apps
[11:32] <nijabo> Ah you meant like that
[11:32] <nijabo> Ah yeah
[11:32] <th^^> same for the zoom
[11:32] <nijabo> I never found that a problem though
[11:32] <th^^> also just look at the latest itunes
[11:32] <th^^> wtf with the sideways window deco buttons?!
[11:33] <nijabo> YEAH
[11:33] <nijabo> I know
[11:33] <nijabo> I got mad
[11:33] <andycc> th^^, I believe that's stolen from olden Linux desktops.
[11:33] <nijabo> and the new iTunes logo is ugly
[11:33] <perscitus> Gnome3 killed natty
[11:34] <andycc> perscitus, well, you *were* warned...
[11:34] <perscitus> oh well, back to Windows i go
[11:34] <th^^> also general slowness of os x is just mindblowing
[11:34] <th^^> resizing windows, dragging, app launch times, etc
[11:34] <perscitus> andycc,  i was aware of the risk and it was worth the risk.
[11:34] <step21> th^^, maybe you used a diff. os x than i did ^^...
[11:34] <hardcold> slowness of OSX? WHAT?
[11:34] <perscitus> Maybe Canonical will allot users a CHOICE for once and choose Gnome3 or Unity for next release 11.10
[11:35] <hardcold> Are you joking?
[11:35] <th^^> and the drivers.. pffh.. no hope of getting newer gfx drivers i guess.
[11:35] <andycc> perscitus, I don't think Canonical is to blame here.
[11:35] <nijabo> Banshee better than Rhythmbox?
[11:35] <nijabo> perscitus, the choice is always there
[11:35] <perscitus> andycc,  actually they are
[11:36] <nijabo> They are not stopping you from switching distro, DE etc.
[11:36] <hardcold> nijabo, from what I understand, rbox is no longer in development
[11:36] <nijabo> hardcold, ah ok what a shame, I always liked Rbox
[11:36] <andycc> nijabo, it would be if it prevented my laptop from suspending if I close the lid and I'm listening to music.
[11:36] <perscitus> Someone will be forking Ubuntu to make Gnome3 default.
[11:36] <step21> perscitus, feel free to go ahead :)
[11:36] <nijabo> perscitus, Why don't you just switch distro if you are so upset and disappointed in Cononical and Ubuntu?
[11:36] <nijabo> o.O
[11:37] <hardcold> nijabo, the only way I could quit Rbox was a force quite in Natty
[11:37] <perscitus> nijabo,  i am though :P
[11:37] <hardcold> *quit
[11:37] <andycc> nijabo, because Ubuntu is the only one that Just Works (TM). I tried every single major distro out there, and Ubuntu is the best.
[11:37] <nijabo> Okay
[11:37] <perscitus> nijabo,  its called Kubuntu :P
[11:37] <nijabo> See
[11:37] <step21> perscitus, also, they are not to blame in so far that the ppa/source install of gnome3 doesn't work, that's just gnome
[11:37] <nijabo> They gave you the choice for a fork distro with KDE
[11:37] <g0rby> who was it that sang, 'i love to hate you?' reminds me of linux a lot
[11:38] <nijabo> lol g0rby, true
[11:38] <perscitus> step21,  not gnome. its launchpad team.
[11:38] <nijabo> andycc, Linux Mint XFCE? ;)
[11:38] <hardcold> or how about I hate to love you?
[11:38] <perscitus> andycc,  thats why i use Ubuntu. It Just Works (mostly)
[11:39] <hardcold> I'm on my first week with Linux and it's getting better by the day
[11:39] <nijabo> You seem to be very upset and angry at something that is free and that a lot of people put a lot of time into.
[11:39] <hardcold> the speed of development has been pretty mind boggling
[11:39] <perscitus> andycc,  but Just Works title belongs to Windows 7.
[11:39] <step21> perscitus, well, anbody can make a ppa... I just meant because I know from experience that gnome in general has a lot (sometimes quite weird) deps in standard, and it is easy that stuff breaks
[11:39] <nijabo> hardcold, said it.
[11:40] <th^^> anyone here with unity?
[11:40] <g0rby> i dunno about that perscitus
[11:40] <nijabo> Unity went from some netbook Os that didn't really work that well (well it worked but not the way I thought it would) into a fantastic shell (and it's not even fully out yet)
[11:40] <hardcold> perscitus, you mean OSX
[11:40] <andycc> perscitus, I
[11:40] <th^^> and few mins of free time to confirm one bug
[11:40] <nijabo> th^^, I'm on Natty beta 2
[11:40] <hardcold> Windows 7 doesn't work very well
[11:40] <andycc> *I'm not wasting my money on that thing.
[11:40] <th^^> nijabo: do you have flash installed?
[11:40] <perscitus> g0rby,  I spend less time fixing ubuntu and more time using my computer with Windows.
[11:40] <nijabo> Sure th^^
[11:40] <nijabo> Yes
[11:40] <th^^> nijabo: could you check the following:
[11:40] <perscitus> Windows 7 never breaks on ,e
[11:40] <hardcold> The trackpad on this didn't work in Windows 7
[11:40] <hardcold> wtf
[11:40] <perscitus> me
[11:40] <g0rby> windows 7 just works as long as you have the hardware to support it - that doesnt they wont go ahead and install it on netbooks that totally cant run it and would be better of with xp / linux
[11:41] <hardcold> same old MS garbage, different number
[11:41] <th^^> set screensaver timeout to 1min, make it require password for unlocking (default?), go to youtube, put flash video to fullscreen, wait for screensaver timeout =P
[11:41] <nijabo> Will do
[11:41] <nijabo> One sec
[11:41] <andycc> perscitus, I usually stick to what Ubuntu gives me, and it works pretty well. Then I get bored, and hell ensues. :(
[11:41] <th^^> for me, flash video stays on top of screensaver, i can't get to login screen anymore as flash is overlayed to enter the password =P
[11:41] <th^^> had to kill flash from separate terminal =P
[11:42] <perscitus> there is so many bugs in Unity its not even funny
[11:42] <perscitus> can of bug spray anyone?
[11:42] <hardcold> perscitus, have you built an OS lately?
[11:42] <nijabo> disapearing while video is doing thingies
[11:42] <g0rby> having said that tho - i did like getting a free copy of 7 for my desktop when i bought this samsung netbook ;)
[11:42] <cryptk> perscitus, go build something easy like LFS and see how it go's
[11:43] <cryptk> then do it without instructions
[11:43] <cryptk> oh, and develop your own DE while you are at it... then let us check your results for bugs, lol
[11:43] <andycc> perscitus, use a fly swatter. http://toastytech.com/guis/desk.html
[11:43] <hardcold> Microsoft has 50,000 plus highly paid employees
[11:44] <g0rby> + millions more inadvertant ones
[11:44] <th^^> as much as i like linux, the sad truth is, for daily desktop usage, i rarely ever hit annoying bugs in windows, but with linux desktops, and especially with unity, it's almost hourly occurrance =)
[11:44] <perscitus> I bet next 2-3 after 11.04 will be bug filled releases
[11:44] <th^^> like that flash-locking-whole-desktop-with-screensaver is something that just should not happen
[11:45] <g0rby> flash should not be as popular as it is
[11:45] <g0rby> its poop
[11:45] <perscitus> th^^ try my expose activate then click power icon in upper right
[11:45] <step21> perscitus, just 10.10 with a virtual box that runs 11.04 ...
[11:45] <hardcold> perscitus, I think the next releases will be quite good. I've been using Linux for a week, and they have made massive improvements with this beta in that time.
[11:46] <perscitus> hardcold,  come back when you try two years.
[11:46] <g0rby> My 80 year granny uses linux
[11:46] <g0rby> much better for her
[11:46] <g0rby> buttons stay in same place
[11:46] <hardcold> I use OSX
[11:46] <g0rby> no update bullshit
[11:46] <g0rby> she hated that
[11:46] <th^^> i remember installing slackware 3.4 from floppy disks back in the day..
[11:47] <perscitus> !lang
[11:47] <hardcold> But I want to support alternatives to Windows and OSX
[11:47] <perscitus> !language
[11:47] <g0rby> That where linux rocks
[11:47] <g0rby> sorry
[11:47] <hardcold> I believe the MS monopoly is not healthy for computing
[11:47] <perscitus> th^^, I rmeber Rh 5 installs.
[11:47] <perscitus> hardcold,  OSX anyone?
[11:48] <hardcold> and will OSX has incredible, the hardware limits its reach
[11:48] <perscitus> I installed mandrake too
[11:48] <g0rby> Well, one thing that really stikes me about admins / devs you introduce to linux. They always say how much they learn about all os's from useing linux but it never applys the other way round
[11:48] <hardcold> Poorly written, pardon my tired typos
[11:49] <hardcold> What I meant was while OSX is a great OS, the hardware choices limit its reach
[11:49] <perscitus> lol
[11:49] <hardcold> You have a couple billion people in China and India who can't afford high-end computers
[11:49] <th^^> i don't see os x doing anything better than win7
[11:49] <perscitus> In Soviet Russia, Operating System  pograms you.
[11:49] <step21> hardcold, but they just pirate ..........
[11:49] <hardcold> th^^ then you are not familiar with OSX
[11:50] <perscitus> http://mobile.osnews.com/img/1842/redhat5.png this is kde back in the day
[11:50] <nijabo> th^^, I can't confirm any bug here. I moved the mouse logged back in - got to the fullscreen youtube flash video and minimized it.
[11:50] <th^^> hardcold: i've had macs for 10 years, and like said having mbp unibody atm with os x right in front of me..
[11:50] <th^^> nijabo: hmkay, this happens in chromium for me btw
[11:51] <th^^> not sure about firefox..
[11:51] <nijabo> Using Chrome dev
[11:51] <andycc> The Chrome dev branch includes its own Flash plugin, right?
[11:52] <hardcold> nijabo, I was watching movies on Amazon prime and after a while I can no longer get out of fullscreen
[11:52] <hardcold> the only solution was to put the computer to sleep by closing the lid
[11:52] <hardcold> this worked
[11:52] <th^^> yeah, probably the same bug that i hit
[11:52] <th^^> :)
[11:53] <nijabo> Need to relog
[11:53] <th^^> altho getting to another tty and killing flash works
[11:53] <hardcold> speaking of which, I noticed Amazon Prime now does instant stuff a la NetFlix
[11:53] <nijabo> th^^ I recommend switching to the YouTube HTML5 testing
[11:53] <nijabo> http://www.youtube.com/html5
[11:53] <hardcold> they only have 1500 movies or so, but Prime is $80 a year, for that's like $6.5 a  month
[11:53] <th^^> nijabo: does it still support fullscreen?
[11:54] <nijabo> Haven't tried that tbh
[11:54] <hardcold> th^^, use click-to-flash
[11:54] <nijabo> Willcheck
[11:54] <hardcold> That's OSX only
[11:54] <th^^> nijabo: anyway, that ain't still excuse for this bug. there's also other video sites :)
[11:54] <hardcold> nijabo, click-to-flash is youtube html 5 on steroids, because it's every site
[11:54] <th^^> nijabo: this will for sure be w-t-f moment for new users
[11:54] <nijabo> True
[11:55] <perscitus> UNity doesnt deserve to be in 11.04. It needs more incubation time
[11:55] <hardcold> you don't go to a special youtube, it auto replaces everything on the standard site
[11:55] <perscitus> How many years did it take to bring is gnome3?
[11:55] <nijabo> perscitus, there's still 7 days until the final release
[11:55] <hardcold> and every other site that has replacements you didn't know about
[11:55] <nijabo> I bet there'll be a ton of updates for the final release
[11:55] <th^^> perscitus: on the other hand, if it doesn't get real widespread testing, it'll just end up being eternal tuning project without real userbase
[11:55] <perscitus> nijabo,  wrong.
[11:56] <nijabo> I haven't had any problems with Unity or 11.04 except that I can't find my wireless network (can find neighbors and login to my university wifi)
[11:56] <th^^> i would expect development and bugfixing get much faster when "cat's out of the bag" =)
[11:56] <perscitus> th^^, gnome3 is more stable
[11:56] <hardcold> I think the 6 month timeline is a problem
[11:56] <th^^> perscitus: unfortunately the gnome3 ui is fail
[11:56] <nijabo> There's still Ubuntu 10.10 for those who does not want Unity
[11:56] <KM0201> perscitus: we kicked this around a few days ago.. look how horrid KDE4 was when it hit ubuntu... .. bottom line, they gotta get people testing it, so they can work the bugs out.
[11:56] <hardcold> But I understand the need to have a focussed timeframe for the community to work at
[11:57] <perscitus> th^^,  Unity is more so.
[11:57] <th^^> perscitus: at least it has minimize and maximize buttons
[11:57] <nijabo> You don't HAVE to upgrade if the upgrade is an "upgrade" ;)
[11:57] <perscitus> th^^,  GNome3 does
[11:57] <hardcold> At any rate, perscitus, you are happy with windows and don't see a value in Ubuntu, so why are you here?
[11:57] <hardcold> wasting your time?
[11:57] <th^^> both are worse than classic gnome2-style anyway
[11:57] <nijabo> I think hardcold is onto something
[11:57] <th^^> i don't get the urge to get application menues look like a freakin' cellphone
[11:57] <loupai> when rc will be released?
[11:57] <nijabo> RC?
[11:57] <nijabo> There is no RC for 11.04
[11:58] <nijabo> Beta 2 took its place
[11:58] <th^^> 11.04 is the rc ;)
[11:58] <nijabo> lol
[11:58] <nijabo> bam bam tshhh
[11:58] <th^^> 11.10 will be the real unity release :)
[11:58] <loupai> oh, sprry
[11:58] <loupai> sorry
[11:58] <nijabo> No worries
[11:58] <KM0201> loupai: probably a few days before the 28th.
[11:58] <perscitus> th^^,  Gnome3 has minimize button. Maxamize is double title bar.  Try gnome-tweak tool.
[11:58] <hardcold> th^^ I'm inclined to agree with you
[11:58] <perscitus> double-click
[11:58] <nijabo> double-click isn't a button
[11:59] <nijabo> Just saying
[11:59] <KM0201> hardcold: yup... i don't look for Unity to really be as good as it can be, till 11.10, maybe 12.04.
[11:59] <nijabo> And I don't understand why they removed the minimize button
[11:59] <th^^> double-click reminds me of, os x has probably the most useless action for doubleclicking the window bar (minimize)
[11:59] <hardcold> Or, you know, they could have 11.05...
[11:59] <nijabo> they could'v left it there just for consistency
[11:59] <nijabo> I mean it looks a lot empty with just the close button (IMO)
[11:59] <perscitus> hardcold,  wont be first time ubuntu got delayed
[11:59] <KM0201> hardcold: now thats not gonna happen.. :)
[11:59] <th^^> nijabo: because some one (1) developer read some awesome "study" by some random college student how useless it is
[11:59] <KM0201> perscitus: won't happen
[12:00] <nijabo> lol
[12:00] <nijabo> That's no reason imo, they could've at least thought about legacy
[12:00] <hardcold> Why would 11.05 not happen?
[12:00] <KM0201> hardcold: its just not gonna happen,.... thats not how ubunt operates.
[12:00] <nijabo> When I tried Gnome3 I really missed the Minimize button :/
[12:00] <hardcold> Why is it called 11.04 and 11.10?
[12:00] <nijabo> YY.MM
[12:00] <perscitus> hardcold,  Ubuntu 6.06
[12:00] <andycc> hardcold, Ubuntu has a 6-month schedule
[12:00] <KM0201> hardcold: because of the year/month
[12:01] <hardcold> Oh, I see!
[12:01] <nijabo> well they did 6.05
[12:01] <nijabo> well they did 6.06*
[12:01] <th^^> perscitus: being first LTS release, that delay was acceptable ;)
[12:01] <hardcold> I didn't realize that, but I get it now
[12:01] <hardcold> ha
[12:01] <nijabo> 6.06 was LTS? ah
[12:01] <th^^> the delay was announced couple months ahead the release too btw
[12:01] <KM0201> nijabo: first one if i recall.
[12:01] <perscitus> and 6.06 is still supported on servers
[12:01] <th^^> i still have one 6.06 server up :)
[12:02] <perscitus> th^^,  you got two months to upgrade it
[12:02] <hardcold> Well, then there you go
[12:02] <nijabo> Hey perscitus, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/how-to-easily-create-a-gnome-style-panel-layout-in-kde/ :P
[12:02] <th^^> up 529 days, 16:14
[12:02] <cryptk> 6.06 is supported on the server until June, then no more
[12:02] <th^^> ^^
[12:02] <hardcold> no reason they couldn't do a 11.05 or 11.07
[12:02] <nijabo> Except they don't wan tto
[12:02] <hardcold> haha
[12:02] <cryptk> hardcold, you will only see an 11.05 if 11.04 were delayed, which it isn't
[12:02] <popey> its a bit late for that kind of decision
[12:02] <popey> 7 days :)
[12:03] <perscitus> nijabo,  dude I always went to one panel in gnome. i hated double panels
[12:03] <hardcold> they only decided to keep Unity two weeks ago
[12:03] <KM0201> 11.04 is not gonnna be delayed guys... its ore than stable enough for release...
[12:03] <cryptk> although they did recently move a release date FORWARD and released it ahead of schedule
[12:03] <th^^> ppl who don't like unity can revert to classic desktop anyway
[12:03] <hardcold> KM0201, I can't agree there
[12:03] <popey> hardcold: hardly
[12:03] <cryptk> they released 10.10 earlier than they normally would have
[12:03] <popey> they decided not to not use it ;)
[12:03] <perscitus> isnt it more like 5 days. how long does it take to build ios and distribute ?
[12:03] <perscitus> isos
[12:04] <hardcold> popey, same difference
[12:04] <cryptk> perscitus, not long at all
[12:04] <g0rby> I think they are going the right way with appmenu / the active window context menu being on the top pannel
[12:04] <KM0201> hardcold: again... i remind you of KDE4.. i hate KDE... but even KDE nuts were upset when KDE4 was implemented, because it was so buggy, slow, etc.. again.. they gotta get people testing it so they can work out the kinks
[12:04] <perscitus> KDE 4.6 is now smooth running machine
[12:04] <g0rby> but combineing that with the side menu which eats loads of your screen seems really counter intuitive to me
[12:04] <KM0201> hardcold: i honestly expected unity to be WAY worse than it actually is.. i like it a lot.. i've had few probs out of it
[12:04] <coz_> KM0201,  kinks out of kde4??  I will pay them a gazillion bucks if that happesn lol
[12:05] <hardcold> KM0201, I'm not talking about unity, I was talking about stability
[12:05] <th^^> 4.6 was pretty nice
[12:05] <KM0201> perscitus: that is my point..
[12:05] <th^^> tested it briefly
[12:05] <th^^> i still don't understand some defaults though
[12:05] <perscitus> th^^,  i wanna see kde 5
[12:05] <KM0201> hardcold: i've had zero stability problems.. been just as stable as 10.10 to be truthful..
[12:05] <th^^> opening items with single click just makes me rage :P
[12:05] <hardcold> KM0201, you said 11.04 was plenty stable for release, and I said I disagreed (based on my experience, which may be atypical)
[12:06] <g0rby> I have some strange bug in 11.04 where the nvidia hardware driver is installed but the hardware drivers app thinks its not enabled, thats causeing some strange probs
[12:06] <th^^> adding some stupid overlay 'selection' checkbox to file manager items is kinda bad bubblegum fix for usability concept that's flawed by design
[12:06] <KM0201> hardcold: i thought youw ere complaining about unity...
[12:06] <KM0201> hardcold: and most of the folks iv'e talked to, ahve had few problems w/ 11.04.
[12:06] <hardcold> until the packages released this morning, it was crashing at least every hour for me
[12:06] <th^^> and stuff like main menu animations are wayyyy too slow for real usage, they're just gimmicks as of now
[12:06] <th^^> other than that, 4.6 was pretty nice
[12:06] <perscitus> th^^,  Unity Dock autohide is slower.
[12:06] <hardcold> However, as I said this morning, whatever the heck the put in those packages last night did some amazing stuff
[12:07] <th^^> perscitus: yes it is, first thing i disabled
[12:07] <hardcold> because my machine has run without issue all day since
[12:07]  * KM0201 doesn't have the Unity Dock on auto hide.
[12:07] <nijabo> I have the Unity dock on always visable
[12:07] <coz_> hardcold,  I have it installed on two separate systems.. way different hardware ,,, however,, on one system things are quite buggy enough so I had to remove it,, i dual booted on this system and it is working to near perfection...
[12:07] <th^^> also top menu is quite stupid as it is now
[12:07] <th^^> showing up only when hovering.. pfffh
[12:07] <perscitus> th^^,  i disabled backlight first
[12:07] <th^^> should just work like in os x
[12:07] <th^^> using menu-heavy apps like gimp/inkscape is just plain pain with unity
[12:07] <andycc> Does !gnome3 only work here?
[12:07] <th^^> stupid hover top bar :/
[12:07] <perscitus> th^^,  no need for app title in panel.
[12:08] <coz_> th^^,   that would be global menu,,, not a good idea all the way around except for netbooks
[12:08] <nijabo> global menus work perfectly in OSX
[12:08] <KM0201> andycc: my gnome3/11.04 experience was really bad.. i wouldn't recommend it.. its still pretty buggy... i did used a gnome3 live cd though... and once the kinks are worked out, i think itll be great
[12:09] <andycc> KM0201, no, I meant the ubottu factoid. ^^
[12:09] <andycc> !gnome3
[12:09] <KM0201> andycc: oh.. :)
[12:09] <hardcold> th^^ I think Ubuntu is in a very difficult position, because you've got the best UI talent in the world at Apple, and then a bunch of people at MS trying to copy that but be "different" and then Ubuntu has to try an not be too derivitave but also usable
[12:09] <perscitus> KM0201,  is more stable for me then unity live so.
[12:09] <perscitus> KM0201, gnome 3 is more stable for me then unity live so.
[12:09] <KM0201> perscitus: guess thats a matter of opinion,
[12:09] <th^^> coz_: well, in OS X top menu is always visible, but unitys is foobarred because it plays somehow "better" by not showing the full app name "so the menu location doesn't change", and combines this with totally, totally useless show-only-on-hover
[12:09] <KM0201> cuz my experience was just the opposite,.
[12:09] <perscitus> KM0201,  Actually, Ubuntu natty barely boots live iso on flash drive.
[12:09] <KM0201> perscitus: unfortunately because its happening for/to you, doesn't mean "it is"... thats why there are testing phases.
[12:10] <hardcold> th^^ I agree about the menu bar
[12:10] <nijabo> perscitus, barely boots?
[12:10] <hardcold> and a lot of other stuff
[12:10] <nijabo> It worked perfectly for me
[12:10] <KM0201> perscitus: thats just ridiculous...
[12:10] <th^^> hardcold: should just honestly copy stuff that works instead of making up these useless gimmicks which bring nothing to the ui except annoyance
[12:10] <th^^> like the top menu hiding
[12:10] <hardcold> BUT, I want Ubuntu to try new stuff
[12:10] <coz_> th^^,  yes I know but even mac's version is out of date and inappropriate for large screens,,, not a bunch of bright people working at apple if they havent recognized that  this kind of menuing system is  only for small realestate screens
[12:10] <hardcold> keep pushing in new directions
[12:10] <perscitus> KM0201,  SOmetimes, splash screen just hands and it flickers on and off instead of booting
[12:10] <nijabo> th^^ I agree hiding the top menu isn't working out for me. but I probably cna live with it
[12:10] <KM0201> hardcold: they will, in due time.. its just with a 6mo release cycle, you can't put everything in a new release..
[12:10] <perscitus> hangs*
[12:11] <KM0201> perscitus: i think thats your pc, more than ubuntu and a flash drive... i've had no problems at all booting flash drives...
[12:11] <coz_> and guys remember,,, you can switch to classic gnome in sessions  to solve these issues
[12:11] <th^^> i would gladly write up an option for it but i'm sure it would just be turned down
[12:11] <th^^> and i really don't wanna maintain my own code work ;p
[12:11] <perscitus> KM0201,  More like FOSS ATI driver. It crashes Unity when installed
[12:11] <KM0201> perscitus: you're starting to talk so ignorant i might have to put you on ignore.
[12:12] <th^^> oss ati driver mostly works for me, but it's still useless for games
[12:12] <KM0201> perscitus: if you don't like unity,l fine.. but just because you're having problems with it, quite a few people are not....
[12:12] <perscitus> KM0201,  Everything was just fine after AMD ATI driver was installed
[12:12] <th^^> unity works smoother than with proprietary one with it :P
[12:12] <nijabo> perscitus, have you grasped the concept of Beta?
[12:12] <KM0201> nijabo: i don't think eh has.. i think he thinks beta means "works perfect"
[12:12] <nijabo> I mean the first OSX release was in beta for 6 months
[12:12] <th^^> os x was in beta for 3 years
[12:13] <th^^> until panther came
[12:13] <nijabo> lol
[12:13] <hardcold> nijabo, I would say the first OSX release was in beta until 10.2...
[12:13] <nijabo> Which one was panther? 10.3?
[12:13] <th^^> i went through pain of 10.0, 10.1 and 10.2 and i can say it was way worse than unity ;)
[12:13] <th^^> nijabo: aye
[12:13] <perscitus> Ubuntu 11.04 Beta 2 is more like ALpha
[12:13] <hardcold> Panther was 10.3, the greatest OS of all time
[12:13] <nijabo> ah
[12:13] <nijabo> 10.4 was great
[12:13] <nijabo> 10.5 as well
[12:13] <nijabo> not sure what is different with 10.5 and 10.6
[12:13] <th^^> all of them were slower than 10.6 though
[12:13] <hardcold> 10.6 is quite good now
[12:13] <coz_> ah mac  7.2.2  was my fave :)
[12:14] <KM0201> nijabo: 10.5?, 10.6?
[12:14] <th^^> but now this is getting full of useless crap
[12:14] <nijabo> Never sat down with snow leopard for long, we have it at school
[12:14] <th^^> app store.. pffh..
[12:14] <KM0201> i think you mean 10.04.1, 10.04.2  etc..
[12:14] <perscitus> coz_,  8.5 was my fav
[12:14] <hardcold> 8.6 was my favorite pre-OSX Mac OS
[12:14] <nijabo> no KM0201
[12:14] <nijabo> 10.4 and 10.5
[12:14] <nijabo> OSX
[12:14] <KM0201> ohh.. sorry.. thought we were still talking ubuntu.
[12:14] <nijabo> :P
[12:14] <KM0201> was getting confused
[12:14] <nijabo> Confused is good
[12:14] <KM0201> nijabo: keeps the mind sharp :)
[12:14] <hardcold> Poor BeOS!
[12:15] <coz_> perscitus,  well I say 7.2  because that what was on the old SE/30 systems with 9" screens,, and it is the only time mac made sense
[12:15] <KM0201> hardcold: never used it.. whast wrong it?... i've always heard people that used it,r eally liked it.
[12:15] <th^^> i don't really understand these "netbook" ui's either... why on earth i would want gigantic super-padded icons on a small screen, rather than a small neat menu which saves space
[12:15] <hardcold> KM0201, used what?
[12:15] <coz_> I love BeOs
[12:15] <KM0201> hardcold: beos
[12:15] <perscitus> hardcold,  they are still working on beos
[12:15] <nijabo> perscitus, can't you just scream "SCREW THIS IM SWITCHING TO ARCH!" and be done with it ;)
[12:16] <coz_> if BeOs had java,, a decent build of it,, I would not be on ubuntu :)
[12:16] <hardcold> I meant "Poor BeOS!" as in "how sad, poor BeOS"
[12:16] <KM0201> th^^: i've often wondered the same, exact same thing.. i've always had normal gnome on my netbook.. i hated the UNR interface on it (still do)
[12:16] <KM0201> its ok on a larger laptop though
[12:16] <nijabo> same here KM0201
[12:16] <perscitus> Beos became Haiku
[12:16] <nijabo> Normal gnome was no problem on my netbook
[12:16] <hardcold> BeOS was made by a couple guys at Apple who left because they were fed up with the progress, or lack thereof, with the Mac OS
[12:16] <nijabo> I just minimzed th font size a bit
[12:16] <th^^> http://cdn.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/narl.png KDE's "netbook" ui isn't any better though
[12:16] <hardcold> and it was a great OS
[12:17] <hardcold> but they made it for PPC
[12:17] <zzillezz> haiku is getting there quite nicely
[12:17] <coz_> perscitus, actually haiku is a reversed engineered,, to a point.. of BeOs because Be was not open source
[12:17] <hardcold> so the market was virtually non-existent
[12:17] <hardcold> and by the time they ported it to X86, it was too late
[12:17] <perscitus> coz_,  And there is reversed engineered windows too
[12:17] <th^^> hardcold: be inc made *computers*, never really standalone os
[12:18] <th^^> .. until it was too late =)
[12:18] <coz_> th^^,  ooo so wrong :)
[12:18] <perscitus> coz_,  ReactOS
[12:18] <coz_> th1,  remember BeOs was started by a former  apple employee
[12:18]  * KM0201 really needs to put BeOS in Vbox to try after all these years
[12:18] <th^^> coz_: i remember seeing these 'be boxes' back in the day :)
[12:18] <KM0201> perscitus: thats better known as "the trainwreck OS"
[12:19] <KM0201> perscitus: i'd rather use Linspire, than ReacOS
[12:19] <coz_> th^^,  yep I have one here and my nephew has 2 of them :)
[12:19] <th^^> vintage
[12:19] <hardcold> the dual-proc 603e?
[12:19] <perscitus> KM0201, They are trying to build an OPEN SOURCE WINDOWS
[12:19] <th^^> my friend still has SGI's boxes. man those are art =)
[12:19] <nijabo> what's the point?
[12:19] <nijabo> Windows is Windows
[12:20] <KM0201> perscitus: and thats gonna be near impossible, because of the way windows is designed (well, w/o violating MS's copyright)
[12:20] <nijabo> There's a not much to get out of it if you ask me
[12:20] <th^^> KM0201: http://haiku-os.org/ put this in vbox rather =)
[12:20] <nijabo> If people making applications would just start porting apps to Linux, I'd see no reason for even touching Windows
[12:21] <hardcold> there were not many dual-proc machines on store shelves in those days, you had the 9500MP and the BeBox
[12:21] <KM0201> perscitus: all they are gonna end up with, just like Linspire, and FreeSpire, and Lindows, etc.. is a OS that "looks" like Windows.. and maybe in some ways acts like Windows.. but its not gonna be Windows, and it's not gonna be near as 'good'(we're grading on a curve here) as Windows is.
[12:21] <th^^> haiku's pixel-gfx is so pretty
[12:21] <cryptk> nijabo, porting an app isn't as easy as a recompile
[12:21] <nijabo> Of course
[12:21] <nijabo> Just saying
[12:21] <KM0201> th^^: wheres screenshots?
[12:21] <th^^> http://haiku-os.org/gallery?photo=0&ref=5381068951927046673 !
[12:22] <th^^> http://haiku-os.org/gallery?albumid=5381068951927046673 full gallery
[12:22] <nijabo> People actually use that? :P
[12:22] <KM0201> th^^: meh.. not that impressed
[12:23] <th^^> nijabo: not really :) dev just for beos retro-kicks i guess..
[12:23] <KM0201> nijabo: kinda what i was thinking
[12:23] <nijabo> Ah
[12:23] <th^^> but it looks just like beos did
[12:23] <nijabo> I want more killer graphics
[12:23] <th^^> sans antialiased fonts :P
[12:23] <nijabo> Like Steve Jobs would phrase it
[12:24] <th^^> some would say os x gfx is far from 'killer' gfx :) i personally hate those rainbow color blast icons etc that look like a candybar
[12:25] <hardcold> th^^ I also hate those AOL colors! So don't use them
[12:25] <th^^> ambience theme looks way cleaner and pro imo :)
[12:25] <hardcold> th^^ just set the to graphite
[12:25] <hardcold> I don't see how people can use OSX with the candy colors
[12:25] <th^^> hardcold: now only if you could change icon themes without some 20eur shareware apps too...
[12:25] <hardcold> First thing I did with it 10 years ago was turn that off
[12:25] <tonysan> How do I change the "taskbar" position to the bottom in 11.04?
[12:26] <th^^> you can't :x
[12:26] <tonysan> really?
[12:26] <th^^> kind dictator mark decided that  =P
[12:26] <hardcold> tonysan, oh yes, the luancher on bottom question..ugh..why oh why can we not put it there.
[12:26] <tonysan> Can I at least move the panel from top to bottom?
[12:27] <s0u][ight> hello, is there a way to disable the side dock in unity?
[12:27] <s0u][ight> so there is only the up panel
[12:27] <th^^> nope
[12:27] <th^^> :)
[12:27] <g0rby> um yes ^^
[12:27] <hardcold> It's called "classic"
[12:27] <g0rby> select classic from gdm
[12:28] <th^^> that ain't unity then :)
[12:28] <g0rby> ;)
[12:28] <nijabo> Classok
[12:28] <s0u][ight> well, not even with gconf hacking?
[12:28] <tonysan> Maybe I'll wait until official release and see if any of these would change
[12:28] <g0rby> im running classic and trying to get appmenu working
[12:28] <th^^> tonysan: most likely no :)
[12:29] <th^^> tonysan: final rel is just few days off, don't expect much to change :)
[12:29] <tonysan> Or move on the Gnome 3
[12:29] <th^^> tonysan: you can however run regular old gnome still, just select classic in gdm
[12:29] <hardcold> is it hard to install gnome 3 for someone new to Ubuntu?
[12:30] <g0rby> i dont see anything wrong with them ripping off the ui of os x
[12:30] <g0rby> its good ^^
[12:30] <coz_> hardcold,  you can do it with the PPA  however, i wouldnt bother
[12:30] <bullgard4> hardcold: I cannot recommend it to newcomers. GNOME 3 is still a project in progress.
[12:30] <th^^> g0rby: i kinda dislike os x ui so i deeply hope they don't :PP
[12:30] <hardcold> okay
[12:31] <hardcold> I compiled an app, which was my exciting achievement
[12:31] <g0rby> =>
[12:31] <coz_> hardcold,  cool
[12:31] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> hi
[12:31] <g0rby> hardcold: yeah, feels good =>
[12:31] <coz_> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN,   hey guy,, that's some nick you have there
[12:31] <th^^> :D
[12:31] <tonysan> Ubuntu should implement an achievement system, such as
[12:31] <g0rby> hardcold: Now you are in the matrix yo
[12:31] <coz_> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN,  it just made my xcaht window  expand
[12:31] <hardcold> first day I got this coz_ was helping go through it. So, the next time it was a piece of cake
[12:31] <coz_> xchat
[12:32] <coz_> hardcold,  very cool... it wont be the last thing you compile :)
[12:32] <hardcold> hehe
[12:32] <th^^> worst thing missing in unity anyway is the lack of system notification area
[12:32] <th^^> try minimizing stuff like pidgin which isn't "supported" by unity... boom, gone!
[12:33] <hardcold> g0rby test
[12:33] <hardcold> ah, okay, that is how
[12:33] <th^^> boom with steve jobs- voice
[12:33] <hardcold> the dot in the 0
[12:33] <coz_> th^^,  if you want Unity to a bit more  relaxing and useable,, install both cairo-dock and  easystroke
[12:33] <coz_> th^^,  then put t he launcher on autohide
[12:34] <s0u][ight> coz_: now you're speaking :)
[12:34] <hardcold> It would be nice if application quit in a more uniform manner
[12:34] <th^^> "easy stroke"? really :P
[12:34] <s0u][ight> gnome without panels and only the cairo-dock is what i have
[12:34] <th^^> sounds like some bad adult movie
[12:34] <coz_> however,,, and I keep ephasizing this point,, Unity is strickly for netbook / small screens,,, it is useless and  creates a bad work environment on large screens
[12:35] <coz_> s0u][ight,  excellent
[12:35] <coz_> s0u][ight,  of course I am  a bit  biased :)
[12:35] <hardcold> For example, if I am playing a stream with Banshee, and quit, it keeps right on playing. Or, if I quit Skype from launcher, it doesn't really quit. You have to quit from the applet. Basically, you have to learn how to quit various apps in different ways, which is a bit awkward
[12:35] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> coz_ what
[12:35] <th^^> coz_: well, if i'd just get proper system notification area and that damned hover off of top menu, i'd be happy with unity :P
[12:36] <coz_> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN,  I was just commenting on the"size"  of you nickname here
[12:36] <th^^> it's not TOO bad but.. too many loose ends still
[12:36] <andycc> th^^, you can remove the stupid notif. area limitations by changing a dconf key.
[12:36] <th^^> andycc: what i need to do, exactly?
[12:37] <andycc> th^^, searching for the exact value right now
[12:37] <hardcold> tow guys are at a urinal, one look over at the other, notices the guy also has the letters "W" and "Y" showing. He says, "Is your girlfriend also named Wendy?"
[12:37] <coz_> andersk,  dconf  or gconf
[12:37] <andycc> th^^, run gsettings set com.canonical.Unity.Panel systray-whitelist "['all']"
[12:38] <hardcold> and the guys says, "No man, it says "Welcome to Jamaica, have a nice day!"
[12:38] <andycc> (in the alt-f2 box)
[12:38] <th^^> mkay, ty
[12:38] <th^^> need to try later, stuck @work with OS X now ;)
[12:38] <KM0201> hardcold: old, old, OLD joke
[12:39] <hardcold> yeah, just a response to the long nick comment
[12:39] <bazhang> !ot > hardcold
[12:40] <th^^> oh yeah, one incompability with new topmenu system too: java apps are lacking top menu altogether now :)
[12:40] <th^^> www.bat.org java client for example fails to show top menu at all with unity :/
[12:41] <hardcold> th^^ like Skype?
[12:41] <th^^> isn't skype QT app?
[12:41] <th^^> *Qt
[12:42] <hardcold> I don't know
[12:42] <hardcold> but there is no menu
[12:42] <andycc> th^^, depends on the toolkit.
[12:42] <andycc> Also, Skype doesn't have any kind of menu.
[12:43] <th^^> i encountered that only with bat client, which is kinda important for me :/
[12:43] <andycc> th^^, so it has a top menu, but doesn't show it *at all* w/ Unity?
[12:43] <th^^> but, off i go, have fun cursing unity ;) ->
[12:43] <zolw> skypes menu is in a button at the bottom of its main window still though if that helps
[12:43] <th^^> andycc: yes, exactly
[12:44] <th^^> andycc: only app name shows up in top bar
[12:44] <hardcold> How do you adjust all the settings in Skype without a menu?
[12:44] <andycc> th^^, http://askubuntu.com/questions/6784/is-it-possible-to-make-indicator-appmenu-ignore-a-specific-application
[12:44] <hardcold> Oh I see, little thing at the bottom brings up a menu
[12:45] <zolw> not an intuitive place for it to be but at least its there i suppose
[12:45] <th^^> andycc: ty, gonna try
[12:45] <th^^> but off i go now :) ->
[12:45] <hardcold> zolw, indeed
[12:51] <mongy> what?  where has the partition tool gone?
[12:52] <andycc> mongy, install GParted from the Software Center.
[12:52] <mongy> andycc, the partition tool during install.   so I can set my own
[12:53] <mongy> dailt live, its vanished.
[12:53] <mongy> dai;y*
[12:53] <mongy> daily*  argh
[12:53] <andycc> mongy, try rebooting from the install media. Happended to me too.
[12:53] <hardcold> is there an indicator for screen brightness
[13:21] <rockhopper> Hi, how to automount a drive in natty?
[13:22] <andycc> rockhopper, does it not do that?
[13:22] <andycc> (as in, automatically)
[13:22] <rockhopper> I mean, it mounts only when i open the drive. But i want it to be auto mounted when it boots
[13:23] <andycc> rockhopper, you'll have to create a script to be run at startup, IIRC. I did that once and it wasn't too easy.
[13:23] <andycc> !upstart
[13:24] <KM0201> !fstab | rockhopper
[13:24] <andycc> Right.
[13:25] <g0rby> I always thought it would be nice if you could click something that was mounted and do "add to fstab" or something
[13:25] <rockhopper> g0rby: hehe me too
[13:25] <mongy> yeah,would have thought that would be an option long before now
[13:25] <g0rby> but you can pretty much just paste what you have from the mount command and whack it in fstab with a bit of formating
[13:26] <MadCarburetor> Why does 11.04 not have a way to turn of visual effects, Like 10.10 did? Will this return in the final version?
[13:26] <g0rby> especially you can use uid now instead of /dev/blah blah thats likely to change
[13:28] <KM0201> MadCarburetor: because they are moving awa from the traditional gnome... 11.10, will have Unity 3D, Unity 2D, and *probably* Gnome 3 (which still won't have that option)
[13:28] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> hello is 11.04 stable
[13:28] <KM0201> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN: no, its beta
[13:28] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> yes but i meant usuabl e
[13:28] <mongy> choose (no effects) at login
[13:28] <MadCarburetor> I know, But why did they get rid of the ability to turn of the visual effects like window shadows and stuff
[13:29] <MadCarburetor> mongy, But that will take me to the old Gnome 2 desktop right?
[13:29] <andycc> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN, you might want to drop a few letters from that nickname.
[13:29] <mongy> yeah
[13:29] <mongy> so you want unity 2d then?
[13:29] <KM0201> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN: is it usable? of course it is... but it is beta... it can(and possibly will) break, so if you're not prepared to deal w/ problems, don't mess w/ it.
[13:29] <mongy> being without effects etc
[13:29] <andycc> MadCarburetor, you can drop the window shadows. CCSM -> Window Decoration plugin -> set drop shadow settings to 0
[13:29] <coz_> MadCarburetor,  you should be able to adjust window shadows  in ccsm  window decoration plugin or in gconf-editor
[13:30] <mongy> seems daily live is broke.  no partition tool,  so doesnt install.
[13:30] <KM0201> wooot.. updates.. :)
[13:31] <KM0201> not surprising, last time i updated was last night.
[13:31] <rockhopper> KM0201: thanks.. added drive to fstab
[13:31] <MadCarburetor> Will there be a noticeable increase in performance? I'm using a old laptop
[13:31] <KM0201> MadCarburetor: hard telling, depends on how you run it...
[13:31] <coz_> MadCarburetor,  mmm thats a tough one,, only one way to find out actually
[13:31] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> hello is 11.04 stable
[13:32] <KM0201> for me... it's been very good on a 6yr old laptop.. but thats not to say its been flawless.
[13:32] <KM0201> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN: i already told you the answer to that.. no, its beta.
[13:32] <MadCarburetor> It seems to be working ok with the shadows on, But i thought maybe it would run even better with them off
[13:32] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> yes but i meant usuabl e
[13:32] <coz_> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN,   well its still Beta software  just as KM0201  mentioned
[13:32] <KM0201> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN: if you have to ask a question that silly, then you shouldn't be messing with it.
[13:32] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> i mean if i can use 11.04 now or is it tooo buggy
[13:32] <coz_> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN,  we all "use" it
[13:32] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> cool
[13:32] <andycc> !spam | DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN
[13:33] <andycc> God dammit, ubottu.
[13:33] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> !spam andycc
[13:33] <KM0201> ubottu: is vacationing.
[13:33] <KM0201> lol
[13:33] <coz_> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN,  so  dpending on your system and what you use it for, this is NOT for a production machine
[13:33] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> ok i think
[13:33] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> it isnt stupid if it doesnt work any time
[13:33] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> because inot need this pc
; It's a beta but so obviously theres some bugs, But i'm finding it very usable, I'm running it on my main laptop
[13:34] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> o
[13:34] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> ok
[13:34] <KM0201> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN: then why are you even asking?.. if you don't need it, then just download and install it, who cares if its stable.
[13:34] <robin0800> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN, I realy can't see it ready in a weeks time
[13:34] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> ok
[13:34] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> thanks
[13:34] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> robin0800 me too !!
[13:34] <KM0201> robin0800: it'll be fine.
[13:34] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> i cant believe tooo
[13:34] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> and the ubuntuhistory said the same
[13:35]  * KM0201 sighs... 
[13:35] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> if i upgrade it
[13:35] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> is it a final at the release endd
[13:35] <andycc> You don't exactly upgrade it
[13:35] <KM0201> DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN: yes.. if you stay up to date, when it final releases, you'll have the final release
[13:36] <DNJDSJDSADSJDSAN> ok i always thought there stay a rests
[13:36] <KM0201> !final
[13:36] <robin0800> KM0201, unless they fix the galium/compiz problem there will be no unity on this laptop
[13:37] <KM0201> robin0800: ok, so don't use unity.. you don't have to... but that doesn't mean the OS is not stable.
[13:37] <KM0201> robin0800: honestl, to expect unity to be stable, is not reasonable.. again, i point you back to KDE 4.. when it wen tinto ubuntu, there were NUMEROUS complaints... bu tthey had to get itout, and get it tested, so the bugs could be worked out.. now.. KDE4 is raved about.. its just gonna take time... i'm guessing by 12.04, maybe 11.10, Unity is gonna be pretty slick.
[13:38] <robin0800> KM0201, I can't I use unity 2d it seems very stable to me and most things just work
[13:38] <MadCarburetor> Will future versions of Ubuntu come with Unity 2D available out of the box?
[13:38] <g0rby> omg 11.04 is unstable ubuntu sux ^^
[13:39] <g0rby> =/
[13:39] <KM0201> robin0800: 3D depends more on your computer, than on the software.. (ie, is your hardware well supported).. to many people are blaming Ubuntu
[13:39] <KM0201> Unity, when the fault lies in a crappy graphics driver.
[13:39] <KM0201> MadCarburetor: far as i know, yes...
[13:39] <robin0800> MadCarburetor, yes I think so but not 11.04
[13:39] <MadCarburetor> ok
[13:39] <jo-erlend> I hadn't tested unity 2d. Isn't that available now?
[13:39] <KM0201> jo-erlend: its in the repos i think..
[13:40] <jo-erlend> oh, ok.
[13:40] <robin0800> jo-erlend, yes
[13:40] <KM0201> gnome 3 went Mohammad Ali on my system, so I've not been messing w/ the other GUI's just yet.. :)
[13:40] <jo-erlend> ... guess I'll just have to have a look then. :)
[13:41] <jo-erlend> KM0201, I couldn't get any of the gnome3 isos to run properly on my machine.
[13:41] <coz_> my biggest complaint about ubuntu is that most of the developers work on laptops and ,, often remove things they believe are not necessary like recognizing scsi drives,,, the last version that did that well was   jaunty I believe,, now rootdelay=40 is still necessary to get the system to boot
[13:41] <KM0201> jo-erlend: i tried the OpenSuse one from gnome3.org.. it worked great
[13:41] <KM0201> jo-erlend: whats your graphics device?
[13:41] <jo-erlend> KM0201, intel something. :)
[13:42] <psalden> afternoon folks... just found out gnome3 isn't using my catalyst drivers... no wonder I get such a crappy visual
[13:42] <nijabo> I've wanted to try openSUSE's gnome3 thing, but from what I've heard you can't LiveUSB it
[13:42] <KM0201> well that will help you trouble shoot it.. i've got an intel gm965 (i think) it worked flawlessly
[13:42] <coz_> jo-erlend,   in terminal    lspci | grep -i vga
[13:42] <jo-erlend> nijabo, you are supposed to be able to do that, but it didn't work here.
[13:42] <KM0201> nijabo: youc an put it on a USB.. i did.. it worked fine
[13:42] <KM0201> did you follow the instructions?
[13:43] <robin0800> Is there a way to turn off the Gallium driver?
[13:44] <KM0201> nijabo: what makes you tihnk you can't try it from usb?...
[13:44] <nijabo> I heard it wouldn't work
[13:44] <psalden> sorry to jump in here, but why not try gnome3 with ubuntu? it's working pretty well already as far as I can tell
[13:44] <nijabo> And I was unable to make a LiveUSb with the .iso using Unetbootin (fedora one worked)
[13:44] <KM0201> nijabo: you heard wrong.. it works fine.. follow the instructions on the site.
[13:45] <KM0201> nijabo: they have a link to a usb tool on their website, i used it, it works fine...
[13:45] <nijabo> Ah
[13:45] <nijabo> Figured I could use any live cd maker
[13:45] <KM0201> psalden: lot of people had problems w/ it (i did... ended up just reinstalling 11.04)
[13:45] <psalden> ah that's a shame
[13:46] <psalden> weirdest thing I encountered wasn't how it doesn't install its themes by default, giving a messed up first impression
[13:46] <KM0201> psalden: meh.. still early in being implemented in ubuntu.. its gonna take time.. my guess is, its gonna come out w/ 11.10, its gonna suck, and by 12.04, maybe 12.10, it's gonna be a lot better
[13:46] <psalden> now all I need is to figure out how to make it use the catalyst drivers, or in the worst case fall back on open sourced
[13:46] <psalden> KM0201: might as well be right, although they'd have to make unity work aside gnome3
[13:47] <KM0201> psalden: thus why i think its gong to suck in 11.10.. :)
[13:47] <KM0201> this stuff just takes time, but they eventually get it together, just usually not in 6mo.. :)
[13:47] <nijabo> I have a lot of confidence that Ubuntu 11.04 will be good in 7 days.
[13:47] <KM0201> i think if ubuntu went to a yearly release, we'd have far more stable, "less buggy" releases.. 6mo, just is not a lot of time.
[13:48] <nijabo> Or rather I really REALLY hope it will
[13:48] <psalden> unity seems cool
[13:48] <psalden> but somehow my inner self wants gnome3 :P
[13:48] <KM0201> nijabo: its been really good for me thus far, so I'd agree w/ you... only thing that annoys me is the "floating window" bug.. but if i pay attention, thats easily avoided
[13:48] <peto> hello
[13:48] <jo-erlend> KM0201, two years is fine though?
[13:48] <nijabo> It's pretty nice once you've gotten used to it.
[13:48] <KM0201> jo-erlend: what do you mean 2yrs is fine?
[13:49] <jo-erlend> KM0201, a two year cycle? That's the LTS. :)
[13:49] <nijabo> I'm annoyed about the wifi problems I'm having. I'll wait for the final release and do a clean install then.
[13:49] <KM0201> jo-erlend: i think two years is stretching it... having the "non-LTS" releases between LTS releases, keeps things reasonably current... but i think Ubuntu could go to 1 release a year, and the releases would be much better when they actually come out, especially when major changes have been implemented (remember 10.04..)
[13:50] <jo-erlend> on my laptops, I stay up to date, but on my desktop, where I do all my important stuff, I stick with LTS-es. I think that's nice.
[13:50] <g0rby> out of the box, my wifi didnt work in 10.10 but works lovely in 11.04
[13:50]  * KM0201 lives on the edge... never sticks w/ LTS.. :)
[13:50] <KM0201> g0rby: what device?
[13:50] <jo-erlend> lucid is my first. I'm really happy with it.
[13:50] <g0rby> ath9k
[13:51] <KM0201> g0rby: yeah, it was only a matter of time before they started working out of the box...
[13:51] <jo-erlend> specially now that the kernel, flash, java and firefox gets upgraded.
[13:51] <peto> how can I see the world map with day&night shadows when I click in the the upper right clock?
[13:51] <KM0201> g0rby: i remember when i got one of the first ath5k devices.. almost no hope in 7.10(including ndiswrapper, etc.)
[13:51] <KM0201> 8.04.. it requires a patch, then compiling the madwifi driver
[13:51] <KM0201> 8.10, activate a "restricted driver".. and it worked...
[13:51] <KM0201> 9.04 on, its worked out fo the box.
[13:52] <nijabo> KM0201, you're like me, a true daredevil
[13:52] <KM0201> nijabo: :)
[13:52] <nijabo> :P
[13:53] <peto> nobody?
[13:53] <jo-erlend> peto, you can't.
[13:53] <KM0201> whats the prob peto /
[13:53] <peto> how can I see the world map with day&night shadows when I click in the the upper right clock?
[13:53] <KM0201> peto: don't think thats available to my knowledge
[13:53] <KM0201> peto: if it is, i imagine its a compiz plugin
[13:54] <peto> it was available in all prior Ubuntu releases I remember
[13:54] <peto> was really pretty and smart
[13:54] <KM0201> peto: dunno, i don't think i've ever saw that feature... (or at least never used it)... the clock/calendar, has underwent some changes though... so maybe that was removed?
[13:55] <jo-erlend> peto, some sacrifices have to be made. I liked that too.
[13:55] <KM0201> you know, i think compiz is silly, but its funny sometimes.. its raining on my desktop. .. :)
[13:55] <peto> ok, thanks, I hope they put it again there :)
[13:56] <jo-erlend> peto, it isn't impossible.
[13:56] <peto> well, we are in beta 2 still
[13:57] <jo-erlend> it won't get into natty. That's certain.
[13:57] <peto> the other possibility is that it is configured in other place
[13:58] <jo-erlend> no, it isn't available. I don't know if it's been designed that way or if it just hasn't been implemented yet, but it isn't available for the time being.
[13:59] <peto> so you was a user of that feature too?
[13:59] <jo-erlend> from time to time. They're different applications, you know.
[13:59] <jo-erlend> I think maybe the best place for it would be in the time and date settings dialog, which already has a map, etc.
[13:59] <peto> it was nice to see the equinoxes :-)
[14:01] <peto> and the hemisphere at night in the cartographic proyection
[14:01] <knightautwell> anyone know how to set up and use hostapd to share internet
[14:21] <ethanol> hrm when trying to upgrade from maverick I get this: This usually is caused by a system were /tmp is mounted noexec. Please remount without noexec and run the upgrade again.
[14:21] <ethanol> is this a comment problem?
[14:21] <ethanol> common*
[14:21] <ethanol> cannot upgrade cause of the above line
[14:25] <linuxman410> jcgs you here
[14:25] <Sahm> ethanol, have you tried issuing " mount -o remount exec /tmp "
[14:25] <ethanol> yes I did, that fixed it
[14:25] <jcgs> linuxman410:sure am :) how did you get on?
[14:26] <linuxman410> jcgs i changed monitors and it went full screen
[14:26] <knightautwell> anyone know how to setup the wifi max usb dongle in ubuntu?
[14:27] <jcgs> linuxman410:nice :) fixed then? can you change your resolution now?
[14:28] <linuxman410> no but my resolution is  1920 X  1200
[14:28] <Sahm> knightautwell, See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported
[14:29] <knightautwell> it is supported tho i think i just dont know how to install the driver and setup dhcp for it
[14:29] <linuxman410> jcgs i am stuck at 1920 x 1200
[14:30] <jcgs> linuxman410: can you paste a link to the output of this command, please: cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[14:34] <Sahm> knightautwell, You might not need a driver for it , first / check Systems>Administration>Network your network name to setup the dhcp.
[14:34] <linuxman410> jcgs  http://pastebin.com/bf2RxFVZ
[14:37] <knightautwell> but i need the driver to put it in master mode to act as an AP
[14:39] <seravitae> so, unity is a raging pile of shite. there. i said it. (hi!)
[14:40] <bazhang> seravitae, no cursing
[14:40] <seravitae> ok.
[14:40] <seravitae> anyways, since i reformatted, my mdadm assembly went down.
[14:40] <seravitae> fair enough. any ideas how i can bring it back up without losing the data?
[14:42] <linuxman410> jcgs see anything
[14:42] <BluesKaj> Howdy
[14:43] <jcgs> linuxman410: yeah, it doesn't seem to be loading the intel drivers :S mine has a line that looks like  (II) LoadModule: "intel" wheras yours doesn't--it's trying to use the framebuffer instead
[14:43] <linuxman410> jcgs any ideal how to fix
[14:43] <jcgs> linuxman410: it then gets really confused and says (EE) FBDEV(0): FBIOPUTCMAP: Invalid argument a million times :S
[14:45] <linuxman410> jcgs when you go to monitors it says 0 hertz
[14:45] <jcgs> do you definitely have the intel drivers installed? command: aptitude show xserver-xorg-video-intel |grep State
[14:47] <jcgs> and which kernel are you running command: uname -r
[14:47] <no-nick> hello everyone
[14:47] <damian_-__> hi. whats the preferred way to install gnome3
[14:47] <Sahm> knightautwell, Basically you just look at your wifi adapter and google to find out what chip it uses to see if Ubuntu support it.
[14:48] <no-nick> how can I install the java for chrome !?
[14:48] <damian_-__> i tried a ppa and it broke my system to the point of just having to reinstall
[14:48] <arand> damian_-__: There is no other way I'm afraid.
[14:48] <no-nick> apt-get-install sun-java6-jre-sun-java6-plugin dosn't works !
[14:49] <linuxman410> jcgs 2.6.38-8-generic
[14:49] <thiebaude> no-nick, ubuntu-restricted-extras
[14:51] <Sprechkaese> i just tried to copy some files onto a USB-HD and hat only speed of ~1,5MB/sec which is very low (had up to 24 MB/sec). How can I increase this speed?
[14:51] <no-nick> thiebaude, ?
[14:51] <linuxman410> jcgs when i typed first command u gave me it said  the program aptitude can be found in the folling packages
[14:52] <linuxman410> following
Guys, I put some Unity in my Unity: http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9519/yodawgiheadulikeunityso.png </joke>
[14:52] <thiebaude> no-nick, i thought you wanted java, my bad, i just seen where you wrote the plugins are not working
[14:53] <no-nick> its alright, so have you got an idea to make the java applest run in chrome !?
[14:53] <ethanol> so I upgraded to 11.04, and now x crashes upon startup. Think it's video related. Entire system freezes.
[14:53] <thiebaude> sorry, no idea on that
[14:54] <thiebaude> no-nick,
[14:54] <ethanol> running in failsafeX mode right now
[14:54] <no-nick> ok thanks.
[14:54] <thiebaude> yw :)
[14:54] <ethanol> how can I figure out what is wrong and how could I solve it?
[14:56] <nijabo> Can you update your systm on failsafe?
[14:56] <nijabo> Becuase there might be a chance there's some updates waiting for you that might solve your problem.
[14:56] <ethanol> no updates available it says.
[14:57] <nijabo> :/
[14:57] <nijabo> Weird
[14:57] <linuxman410> jcgs be right back just updated have to restart
[14:58] <ethanol> http://paste.ubuntu.com/596966/ my xorg log
[14:59] <Sprechkaese> i just tried to copy some files onto a USB-HD and hat only speed of ~1,5MB/sec which is very low (had up to 24 MB/sec). Why is that?
[15:02] <Sprechkaese> it also looks like my system has swat set to off as a default, I have to do swapon at each upstart :( where can i reset that?
[15:02] <Sprechkaese> *swap
[15:04] <jcgs> linuxman410: how'd you get on? sorry i have to go soon and grade some rooms :S
[15:04] <linuxman410> jcgs it says state installed
[15:05] <jcgs> nice :) what about xrandr? still reporting errors?
[15:07] <linuxman410> jcgs here is what it says  http://pastebin.com/prPS9E0m
[15:08] <linuxman410> jcgs still 0 refresh rate
[15:09] <jcgs> fail :( what about: cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[15:11] <linuxman410> jcgs still same error
[15:13] <jcgs> :( can you print the output of lspci|head
[15:13] <damian_-_> is the guy with xserver problems still here?
[15:15] <jcgs> damian_-_: linuxman410 's got lots of xserver problems :(
[15:16] <jcgs> i'm attempting to help him in a very amateurish way, you'll probably be better at it than i will--especially since i've got to leave in a sec
[15:17] <linuxman410> jcgs http://pastebin.com/d3a85WGW
[15:19] <linuxman410> damian_ _ i am guy with xserver problems
[15:20] <jcgs> linuxman410: have a read of this--sound about right? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Bugs/Mavericki8xxStatus
[15:22] <jcgs> sorry gtg :( see y'all soon
[15:23] <linuxman410> jcgs how do i replace existing file after creating this one
[15:23] <ethanol> so, removing the fglrx driver fixed my issues. using only xserver-xorg-video-radeon now.
[15:24] <linuxman410> ethanol would that workm with intel
[15:25] <jo-erlend> ethanol works with anything. :)
[15:26] <ethanol> I don't get it?
[15:27] <anass> hello, I'm using ubuntu 11.04 beta2, and want to resize left side menu icons, how?
[15:27] <ethanol> unity is .. different. looks ok so far. graphical glitch in the main menu though. when I click the ubuntu button and shortcuts shows up, but there is a few white bars obscuring the word
[15:27] <Omega> anass: Install ccsm
[15:28] <Omega> Search for it in the software center.
[15:28] <peto> is there a file searcher better than Google Desktop?
[15:28] <Omega> peto: Nautilus can search for files.
[15:28] <Omega> Which is the default file manager.
[15:29] <anass> @Omega: installing, thank you! :)
[15:29] <peto> Omega, but it is much slower than GD
[15:29] <ethanol> hrm annoying. the sidebar seems to have hijacked my gnome-do shortcut (super+spacebar)
[15:30] <nijabo> ethanol, 11.04?
[15:30] <ethanol> yes
[15:30] <mrdeb> the 1104 is broken?
[15:30] <Omega> peto: If you're looking for files you've recently used, click on Files in the launcher.
[15:30] <mrdeb> installer
[15:30] <nijabo> YOu dont need gnome-do in Unity, surely?
[15:30] <ethanol> I happen to like gnome-do :<
[15:30] <Omega> And then the dash will open, you can use that to search too.
[15:30] <nijabo> :/
[15:30] <nijabo> Yeah what Omega
[15:30] <ethanol> especially with the google contacts plugin
[15:31] <peto> Omega, the advantage of Google Desktop is that it finds files anywher and almost instantly
[15:31] <peto> find*
[15:31] <nijabo> Alt+F2 works in Untiy
[15:31] <nijabo> Rebooting
[15:31] <ethanol> peto: if you preach gd so much, then just use that?
[15:31] <Omega> peto: From my experience, the file manager's search is also pretty fast.
[15:31] <Omega> But, I haven't used GD so I can't compare the two.
[15:32] <peto> ok
[15:33] <peto> it is good, but when you want to install it in 11.04... Ubuntu tells you that it is not good soft to install
[15:33] <peto> I did anyway
[15:33] <mrdeb> is 1104 installer broken?
[15:33] <mrdeb> it doesnt give option where to install
[15:34] <charlie-tca> mrdeb: Is that today's image? Yesterdays daily-live was broken for that
[15:34] <ethanol> mrdeb: the 1104 desktop cd is a live cd. you run ubuntu, and then install from within the live environment
[15:34] <charlie-tca> ethanol: If it won t let you choose the partition, it won't matter how you do it
[15:34] <popey> mrdeb: the installer now presents different options depending upon what it detects whats on the disk
[15:35] <ethanol> charlie-tca: it all depends on what step he is talking about.
[15:35] <popey> ethanol: it doesn't. the partitioning screen is the same on "try ubuntu" or "install ubuntu"
[15:35] <charlie-tca> ethanol: this one? <mrdeb> it doesnt give option where to install
[15:36] <charlie-tca> which is the same problem it had yesterday. The partitioner never actually came up, and the install would go as many hours as you let it.
[15:36] <charlie-tca> it just did not do anything
[15:37] <mrdeb> popey: it is broken as of yesterdaqy
[15:37] <popey> :(
[15:38] <charlie-tca> Yes, mrdeb . It is still broken
[15:38] <charlie-tca> mrdeb: you can use the alternate cd to install. It does work
[15:39] <mrdeb> charlie-tca: ok thanks. but i would have to downlaod the whole iso again :/
[15:39] <charlie-tca> Got to hope it is fixed tomorrow
[15:39] <mrdeb> is there a hack to make it work
[15:39] <charlie-tca> None that i know
[15:41] <charlie-tca> mrdeb: bug 767402
[15:41] <mrdeb> nooooooooooo
[15:41] <mrdeb> :/
[15:42] <charlie-tca> looks fixed too late for today
[15:42] <mrdeb> wha causes this
[15:42] <charlie-tca> An update to ubiquity
[15:42] <mrdeb> how can code just break
[15:43] <mrdeb> did someone put a 1 instead of 9
[15:43] <mrdeb> 0
[15:43] <Omega> I think he can upgrade ubiquity while in the live-cd to fix it, can he not?
[15:43] <mrdeb> oh?
[15:43] <charlie-tca> or one new package that is not quite compatible with older packages
[15:43] <Omega> So he wouldn't need to redownload.
[15:43] <mrdeb> ok
[15:44] <Omega> live-session*
[15:44] <charlie-tca> Omega: I don't know, myself.
[15:44] <mrdeb> apt-get ubiquity?
[15:44] <Omega> Yeah, that should work.
[15:44] <charlie-tca> could try it
[15:44] <mrdeb> ok i will try it
[15:46] <Omega> Oh, you forgot "install"
[15:46] <Omega> it's: sudo apt-get install ubiquity
[15:47] <mrdeb> i knowthat
[15:47] <Omega> Let us know if it works. :)
[15:47] <mrdeb> ok,. i have to get off here to try it
[15:49] <Kurdistan> hey I tried unity from usb pen.
[15:51] <Kurdistan> jockey-gtk didnt fined my nvidia card. It worked in 9.10 and forwards.
[15:52] <Kurdistan> I know I can install from synaptic, but why didn´t fined my card?
[15:53] <BluesKaj> Kurdistan, is there a driver listed in jockey ?
[15:54] <Kurdistan> BluesKaj
[15:54] <Kurdistan> no
[15:54] <Kurdistan> thats problem. In maverick it listed recommend etc in jockey.
[15:54] <BluesKaj> which nvidia card , Kurdistan?
[15:55] <Kurdistan> I wanted to test from the usb the unity look. but I it was the old gnome classic.
[15:56] <bottiger> When I try to install kubuntu-desktop I get some dependecy errors because kdelibs5-data is only in version 4:4.6.2-0ubuntu3 but is needed in version 4:4.6.2-0ubuntu4
[15:57] <Kurdistan> G72M [GeForce Go 7400]
[15:58] <Kurdistan> It will be a big blow if I can not use unity with natty and why jockey-gtk can not fined my card.
[15:58] <Kurdistan> never happend before
[15:59] <davideS> hi
[15:59] <davideS> I am looking for help with vertical scrolling on alps touchpad
[15:59] <bottiger> 4:4.6.2-0ubuntu4 hardly exists on google. Does anyone else have this problem
[16:01] <BluesKaj> Kurdistan, update your repositories to include the canonical partners , then update and upgrade. Drop to a TTY (ctrl+alt+f1) , stop gdm , install nvidia-current, then reboot
[16:01] <Kurdistan> BluesKaj, my intention is not to install beta 2.
[16:02] <Kurdistan> my intention was to see if every things works like all the other release.
[16:02] <Kurdistan> I have tested maverick rc and even then it could fined my card.
[16:03] <Kurdistan> This time it didnt. Must I do install and have close driver install do have unity look?
[16:03] <BluesKaj> your intentions in that case are misguided , Kurdistan
[16:04] <Kurdistan> BluesKaj, maybe so. I know how to install. But why cant jockey fined my card like all other release out of the box? I hope it will be fixed to the stable.
[16:05] <BluesKaj> Kurdistan, best to use the alternate install cd , when you decide .
[16:06] <NathanaelG> hi all. do you also know about Kubuntu+1?
[16:06] <Kurdistan> BluesKaj, I hate alternate cd. My student network would not allow me to get the updates.
[16:07] <BluesKaj> NathanaelG, yes
[16:07] <Kurdistan> from alternate cd. I most log in before.
[16:08] <NathanaelG> well, anyone knows if plasma media center will be in kubuntu natty? I remember once having seen it in some todo list, but don't know wheter it will be or not?
[16:08] <BluesKaj> Kurdistan, well, if you paint yourself into a corner with your dislikes , then it's very difficult to help you
[16:09] <Kurdistan> BluesKaj, I don´t dislike unity or natty. dont get me wrong.
[16:11] <NathanaelG> I am considering downloading ubuntu 11.04 as well, although i am traditionally a kde guy and very fond of current kde sc. but I might just want to test unity
[16:12] <BluesKaj> NathanaelG, kde is more stable atm , tried unity ..sticking withkde
[16:13] <NathanaelG> BluesKaj: well I love kde anyway, would just download it to peek into unity
[16:13] <NathanaelG> BluesKaj: anyway, kde 4 at the start wasnt all gold neither, took its time.
[16:14] <ceed^> I haven't seen Unity for days. It's there behind my running apps being invisible, but when I need it it's there by key press. I think I like it.
[16:15] <Kurdistan> BluesKaj, I fined it from ubuntuforums.org: Your nvidia 7600 should be enough for Unity (also a 6000 series should be ok)
[16:16] <ceed^> I'm wondering if it's possible to run Unity with another wm though?
[16:16] <NathanaelG> ceed^: what exactly does unity do?
[16:16] <MDCore> hey all. I'm using unity, and I want to use the win+1, win+2 etc keys, but they are bound to the sidebar. Is there any way I can change that?
[16:16] <BluesKaj> Kurdistan, yes it is but I didn't care for it much ..it's a matter of taste ...it was merely an experiment anyway
[16:17] <peto> is there a super + wheel image magnifier in Unity?
[16:17] <mrdeb> it did not work
[16:17] <Kurdistan> BluesKaj, I dont get you.
[16:17] <peto> is there a super + wheel SCREEN magnifier in Unity?
[16:18] <ceed^> NathanaelG, It's mostly a lauchher (on the right) and a bar at the top with some notification area icons (you can add and remove them). It's simply, looks good and works (for me at least) I love the way it auto comlete apps and docs so you do not need a menu of file manager until the actual file is found.
[16:18] <ceed^> on the left, sorry! :)
[16:19] <NathanaelG> ceed^: i like that with the runner in kde
[16:20] <BluesKaj> Kurdistan, I'll rephrase that : yes the 7600gt works fine with Unity but I didn't care for Unity much ..it's a matter of taste ...it was merely an experiment anyway
[16:20] <mrdeb> is unity more usable than gnome
[16:20] <ceed^> NathanaelG, that part is similar in Unity. There's also these "apps" called lenses you can add to the launcher. I've gotten addicted to the Gwibber one which makes social networking overview so simple.
[16:20] <genii-around> Current updates break the nvidia driver, nvidia-current_270.41.06-0ubuntu1_amd64 produces: "API mismatch: the client has the version 270.41.06, but this kernel module has the version 270.41.03.  Please make sure that this kernel module and all NVIDIA driver components have the same version." Reverting to nvidia-current_270.41.03-0ubuntu1_amd64 solves it for now.
[16:20] <Kurdistan> BluesKaj, you mean for yourself? Okey I get it.
[16:20] <NathanaelG> ceed^: i don't do social networking. I m too associal for it, i guess.
[16:21] <ceed^> mrdeb, I've used Gnome for ten year. I grumbled while logging into Unity for the first time wanting to hate it. I never logged out again.
[16:21] <NathanaelG> ceed^: have you also tested kde sc 4?
[16:21] <ceed^> NathanaelG, there are probably lenses for the asocial ones also :)
[16:21] <mrdeb> ceed^: but it's ont more usable
[16:21] <NathanaelG> ceed^: hehe ;-)
[16:21] <mrdeb> interfaces like unity bring things to you
[16:22] <mrdeb> where gnome is wherey ou have to find things
[16:22] <mrdeb> i do not like things thrown at my face
[16:22] <ceed^> NathanaelG, yes. I run Chakra on one of my laptops. It has a slightly modified (to the better) version of KDE 4 as default desktop.
[16:22]  * ceed^ so agrees with mrdeb
[16:23] <NathanaelG> ceed^: you like it as well then? I use flexible tasks for the task manager, although I seldom use any menues or task lists at all
[16:23] <NathanaelG> It's all there in the runner
[16:23] <ceed^> NathanaelG, yeah, I do like KDE 4. and too much of a good thing can be wonderful! :)
[16:23] <nebula> Hey people, what monitor to choose for ubuntu 11.04
[16:23] <nebula>  http://www.lg.com/ru/computer-products/computer-monitors/LG-IPS236V.jsp
[16:23] <nebula>  http://www.lg.com/uk/it-products/monitors/LG-led-monitor-E2360V.jsp
[16:23]  * BluesKaj doesn't like sidebars , never did
[16:23] <nebula> help
[16:24] <mrdeb> i also dont like the scrollbars hidden
[16:24] <mrdeb> it doesnt save space and confuses you
[16:24] <BluesKaj> !ask | nebula
[16:24] <NathanaelG> ceed^: well, you said modified for the better? which version do you use and what modfications?
[16:24] <ceed^> BluesKaj, but the Unity one pops out of the way when it's touched by and app. I never see it unless I want to
[16:24] <mrdeb> i want to see eerthing all the time
[16:24] <MDCore> how do I change the number of workspaces and the keyboard shortcuts for them? In unity.
[16:25] <mrdeb> not context dependant like ribbon in ms office
[16:25] <NathanaelG> mrdeb: well, ribbon is nice for me
[16:25] <mrdeb> no its bad
[16:25] <NathanaelG> mrdeb: i like using it (at work)
[16:25] <mrdeb> it's brainwashing
[16:26] <NathanaelG> mrdeb: but If I look at my windows here on kde, I don't have any menu bars... I use short cuts and for the seldom opportunities I need a menu, there s always ctrl m -> guess I'm really the keyboard type of user
[16:26] <mrdeb> yes
[16:27] <mrdeb> shortcuts are also unneeded at all
[16:27] <mrdeb> alt+f2 does it all
[16:27] <ceed^> NathanaelG, kdemod was stripped down a little, but they have stopped development. Chakra now ships with a mostly standard KDE 4 desktop. I haven't tried that one yet: http://chakra-project.org/
[16:28] <NathanaelG> mrdeb I mean keyboard short cuts, not the icon ones
[16:28] <mrdeb> yers
[16:28] <mrdeb> do you use a dedicate graphics card
[16:29] <NathanaelG> mrdeb: do you mean me?
[16:29] <mrdeb> yes
[16:30] <BluesKaj> NathanaelG, I just use a single panel in kde 4.6 plasma with icon shortcuts , no need for desktop stuff in my case.
[16:30] <NathanaelG> mrdeb I use what is built in in my notebook. it s a nvidia geforce 9600
[16:31] <NathanaelG> BluesKaj: well, I am thinking about leaving the task manager away as well, cause I can have it presented by the expose function or waht it's called.
[16:31] <bottiger> When I try to install kubuntu-desktop I get some dependecy errors because kdelibs5-data is only in version 4:4.6.2-0ubuntu3 but is needed in version 4:4.6.2-0ubuntu4
[16:31] <mrdeb> do you think putting a graphics card puts too much use on the motherboard and it will last less
[16:31]  * genii-around kicks feebly at frozen ubuntu-bug 
[16:31] <NathanaelG> ??? mrdeb, what do you mean by that?
[16:32] <mrdeb> if you have a separate card
[16:32] <mrdeb> it uses more power through motherboard
[16:32] <NathanaelG> mrdeb: as I only have my notebook i have no choice, really.
[16:32] <mrdeb> yes
[16:32] <MDCore> so is there any way to change the unity keyboard shortcuts?
[16:32] <BluesKaj> bottiger, which kde version are you on ?
[16:33] <mrdeb> no you have no choice
[16:33] <bottiger> BluesKaj: It's not installed at all
[16:34] <bottiger> BluesKaj: however, I just saw this: http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/libs/kdelibs5-data as far as I can see 4:4.6.2-0ubuntu4 should be the current version
[16:34] <bottiger> BluesKaj: maybe my mirror is outdated?
[16:35] <NathanaelG> mrdeb: I never even opened it. Earlier in life I used to assemble all my boxes myself, but then I met my girlfriend and was only seldom at home. So I bought a 18.4' notebook with full hd resolution and 1 tb of hd, so I could use it at home or at her place. Nowadays we live together, and I might buy a normal tower again - is nicer, if you can update the hardware as well. But it just wasn't the right thing then having a pc standing in
[16:35] <NathanaelG> my appartment where I nearly never was.
[16:35] <BluesKaj> bottiger, ok which kubuntu/ubuntu OS version?
[16:35] <mrdeb> yes true
[16:36] <bottiger> BluesKaj: natty
[16:38] <BluesKaj> bottiger, run , sudo apt-add-repository ppa:kubuntu-ppa/backports , then update and dist-upgrade
[16:39] <bottiger> BluesKaj: I already have that, but then I get the dependency-error
[16:39] <mrdeb> anyone get apport errors
[16:40] <rww> mrdeb: "apport errors" meaning errors updating the apport package?
[16:40] <mrdeb> when updating other packages
[16:40] <mrdeb> it said dependency error with apport
[16:40] <mrdeb> so i removed apport
[16:41] <rww> so yes, errors updating the apport package. known bug, they've been working on it.
[16:41] <mrdeb> is apport needed
[16:41] <rww> not if you don't want to report bugs
[16:41] <mrdeb> ok
[16:41] <mrdeb> i want to report unity as a bug
[16:41] <mrdeb> lol just kidding
[16:42] <rww> I think 1.20.1-0ubuntu5 fixes it, haven't checked. So you could try installing it again in a few days when the mirrors have caught up.
[16:42] <mrdeb> ok
[16:43] <NathanaelG> well, one could also file a new bug for ubuntu: kde missing ;-)
[16:43] <mrdeb> i also found a fix to the blank windows with nvidia. it's due to low memory set for graphics and nvidia driver bug
[16:43]  * NathanaelG is also just kidding, though he likes ubuntu bug #1
[16:44] <rww> NathanaelG: lrn2kubuntu ;P
[16:44] <NathanaelG> lrn2kubuntu? what s that, rww?
[16:44] <NathanaelG> I AM using kubuntu4
[16:44] <nijabo> Learn to Kubuntu
[16:44] <nijabo> Then what is the problem?
[16:44] <rww> I guess KDE isn't missing then, is it ;P
[16:45] <rww> although maybe we should move GNOME to Gubuntu and Kubuntu to Ubuntu :3
[16:45] <rww> and Uubuntu for GNOME with Unity ;P
[16:45] <NathanaelG> YES! Thats what I always hoped for
[16:45] <BluesKaj> bottiger, sudo dpkg --configure -a , then try the recovery kernel on next reboot , choose repair broken packages , then reboot .
[16:45] <nijabo> KDE is useless
[16:45] <nijabo> wops...
[16:45] <nijabo> It just slipped out of me
[16:46] <NathanaelG> nijabo: you have made a typo. It should be GNOME instead of KDE -> Let the flame fest begin
[16:46] <nijabo> :P
[16:46] <bottiger> BluesKaj: I'll give it a shot
[16:46] <nijabo> The beauty of Linux is the freedom of choice :D
[16:46] <nijabo> Flamewars are pointless, let's just agree to disagree and enjoy our freedom
[16:47] <NathanaelG> Btw: wasn't there some professor tanenbaum stating linux is useless in a legendary usenet posting?
[16:47] <nijabo> In mother Russia, KDE flames you.
[16:47] <rww> Let's just agree to all be wrong and accept that TWM is the best WM ;P
[16:47] <NathanaelG> LOL rww
[16:48] <nijabo> Awesome is more awesome.
[16:48] <NathanaelG> well, what about CDE?=
[16:48] <nijabo> Have you guys seen the DEV screenshot of Ubuntu 11.10?
[16:48] <pteague_work> anybody familiar enough with gmusicbrowser to tell me how to decrease the width? it's wider than my main screen & won't let me shrink it any further
[16:49] <Pici> nijabo: 11.10 doesn't exist yet.
[16:49] <maco> nijabo: oooh are you from the future?!
[16:49] <NathanaelG> nijabo? you talk about 10.10?
[16:49] <nijabo> No
[16:49] <nijabo> 11.10
[16:49] <nijabo> A screenshot has leaked
[16:49] <nijabo> http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1349/ubuntu1110devscn27.png
[16:49] <maco> how? we havent started developing it yet
[16:49] <maco> we won't start developing it until after 11.04 is out
[16:50] <Pici> nijabo: wow, you're funny.
[16:50] <maco> planning doesn't even commence til 9 May
[16:50] <rww> I lol'd
[16:50] <nijabo> That's innovation right there
[16:50] <rww> maco: I think you should open the image, print it out, take it to UDS-O, and tell everyone that it's how we should do it.
[16:50] <NathanaelG> lol, that s quite surely a kde desktop, so why the gnome foot for the menu button? was it kde 2?
[16:50] <rww> It looks perfect.
[16:50] <nijabo> Nah
[16:51] <nijabo> That's GNOME 1
[16:51] <maco> rww: i'm not going to uds
[16:51] <NathanaelG> rww I forwarded the link as a suggestion to mark shuttleworth
[16:51] <maco> i have enough design docs to write for work that week
[16:51] <nijabo> Ubuntu Developers Summit?
[16:52] <rww> !uds
[16:52] <nijabo> I'm listening to Rachmaninovs Piano Concert No. 3
[16:52] <nijabo> 4*
[16:52] <nijabo> Do they expect people to go to Budapest?
[16:52] <nijabo> Is Cononical paying?
[16:53] <nijabo> Canonincal
[16:53] <nijabo> damnit
[16:53] <nijabo> Comical
[16:53] <mrdeb> does anyone understand the name canonical
[16:53] <nijabo> It's an adjective from the word canon
[16:53] <mrdeb> did it come from comic or banana or tonic
[16:53] <Pici> nijabo: Ubuntu has developers from all over the world.
[16:53] <nijabo> "Canonical is an adjective derived from canon. Canon comes from the greek word κανών kanon, "rule" (perhaps originally from kanna "reed", cognate to cane), and is used in various meanings."
[16:54] <mrdeb> rule what
[16:54] <nijabo> "Basic, canonic, canonical: reduced to the simplest and most significant form possible without loss of generality, e.g., "a basic story line"; "a canonical syllable pattern.""
[16:54] <Pici> nijabo: And yes, they are sponsoring some people to come.
[16:54] <nijabo> mrdeb, to rule
[16:54] <nijabo> The verb
[16:54] <mrdeb> to rule what
[16:54] <nijabo> The world
[16:54] <mrdeb> ok
[16:55] <rww> lolno
[16:55] <nijabo> Someone should buy Mark a whiteboard: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Mark-shuttleworth-launchpad-wiesbaden-big.jpg
[16:58] <mrdeb> is that him
[16:58] <rww> mrdeb: The guy holding the whiteboard is sabdfl, yes.
[16:58] <mrdeb> so that's nto ms
[16:59] <rww> !sabdfl
[16:59] <nady> 11-04
[16:59] <nady> ?
[16:59] <Pici> nady: Whats the question?
[16:59] <mrdeb> what is he telilng the bald guys on the right
[17:00] <Pici> Looks like its something about sending bugs upstream.
[17:00] <Pici> And bug traiging.
[17:00] <Saamm> how can i find my wine apps in unity? they are no where :(
[17:01] <maco> Saamm: hit the super/apple/win key to get a searcher
[17:01] <maco> oh wait wine
[17:02] <maco> umm... theyre somewhere in ~/.wine ?
[17:04] <mrdeb> you hit alt f2 and type wine
[17:05] <Saamm> maco, argh
[17:05] <Saamm> maco, unity suck
[17:05] <maco> was it possible to run them from the menus in gnome 2?
[17:06] <rww> yes
[17:06] <mrdeb> unity is fine
[17:06] <mrdeb> it is usable at this point
[17:07] <mrdeb> it will unity the world for the rule of canonical
[17:07] <Saamm_> maco, yep in classic gnome i see them
[17:08] <maco> rww: wine apps have .desktp files??
[17:08] <rww> maco: They do in 10.10 at least. It might be an Ubuntu thing, I dunno.
[17:08] <frybye> trying to use a nokia bh-214 BT headset with natty.. It worked once but no more .. shows up in menu of the bt-ikon but clicking on bh-214 | connect does nothing it also does not show up in sound | hardware..?
[17:08] <douglasawh-work> does anyone have an HP 6400 on which they've been doing testing?
[17:08] <rww> reminds me, I haven't chatted with Yokozar in a while
[17:08] <Saamm_> maco, yep the for start menu shortcuts in windows
[17:09] <mrdeb> is there a cheap tablet that works with 1104
[17:10] <frybye> mrdeb: bare in mind that android is a linux variation which has had a lot of work on it to make suitable for tablets etc.. eh how come expect relativly "plain vanilla" ubuntu to do the job...?
[17:11] <mrdeb> i prefer a gnome operating system with deb over android
[17:11] <mrdeb> is thre a table that works iwth it
[17:11] <maco> Saamm_: try the super/win/apple key then. if there are .desktop files it should be able to search them
[17:11] <frybye> ok - wether most tablet comps. also prefer the same..? Wish you luck - but not to logical I feel...
[17:11] <kushal3> Hi, I am on an asus n61jv with nVidia gt325m graphics card. everytime I enable the graphics card and reboot, there is no display and I have to roll it back. please advice
[17:12] <Saamm_> maco, searching does not show all results...also you have to remember each and everything u have installed for search to work
[17:12] <mrdeb> kushal3: in terminal, gedit /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf and enter "blacklist nouveau" on one line
[17:13] <maco> Saamm_: once youve found it once theres probably a way to add it to the dash
[17:13] <maco> (but i use kde, so ive never tried)
[17:14] <kushal3> mrdeb: does it matter where I put it? can I put it at the bottom of the document?
[17:14] <Saamm_> maco, if add it to dash it adds wine and not game/app
[17:14] <kushal3> Oh and do i have to sudo to be able to edit it?
[17:15] <mrdeb> kushal3: yes bottom
[17:15] <mrdeb> yes
[17:15] <Saamm_> maco, is there a wine menu appindicator?
[17:16] <kushal3> ok, saved mrdeb what should I do next?
[17:16] <MichaelKohler> is it save to always install the beta releases and then for some time the "normal" and then update to the beta again? or is there a new installation needed from time to time?
[17:16] <mrdeb> if the driver is isntalled, then reboot. then if hte display is messed up, you may need to sudo nvidia-xconfig and logout and back in
[17:18] <kushal3> thank you mrdeb
[17:19] <mrdeb> MichaelKohler: you can install the beta and update all when it's released
[17:21] <MichaelKohler> mrdeb: and there are no down sides to this? such as bad packages?
[17:21] <BluesKaj> MichaelKohler, there's no absolute rule on installs/upgrades ..it depends on your HW etc ...I had to clean install natty beta on one machine but not the other natty, so there are differences'
[17:21] <wagner[DF]> hello i'm trying to install 11.04 daily, but after user screen do nothing
[17:21] <MichaelKohler> okay, thanks guys
[17:22] <KM0201> wagner[DF]: my first thought, would be your GPU doesn't support 3D(since it defaults to 3D)
[17:22] <wagner[DF]> i'm using 10.04 with 3d
[17:23] <wagner[DF]> i can't install 11.04, ubiquity user screen
[17:23] <KM0201> wagner[DF]: that reallyd oesn't matter, did you install the driver(like w/ ATI or Nvidia) after you installed 10.04
[17:23] <mrdeb> wagner[DF]: it's broken right now
[17:25] <bjsnider> mrdeb, please do not tell people to edit blacklist.conf like that
[17:25] <mrdeb> why not
[17:25] <bjsnider> jockey and nvidia-current do all the work
[17:26] <mrdeb> i knowbut it didnt work for him for some reason
[17:26] <bjsnider> they blacklist nouveau without editing that file
[17:26] <wagner[DF]> mrdeb, so, i want to try 11.04, it's better i try beta2?
[17:26] <mrdeb> yes beta2
[17:26] <mrdeb> ok, sorry
[17:26] <bjsnider> mrdeb, what if he wants to use nouveau in the future? you've had him edit blacklist.conf to disable it
[17:26] <mrdeb> then he can undo the edit
[17:26] <KM0201> assuming he remembers how..
[17:27] <bjsnider> i hope he remembers
[17:27] <mrdeb> if will still load nouveau with it blacklisted if nvidia is not installed
[17:27] <mrdeb> i have tried it
[17:27] <bjsnider> it loaded vesa
[17:27] <mrdeb> vesa and then nouveau bec it had the right resolution in desktop
[17:27] <KM0201> anyway.. the point at hand, i've had an issue w/ the live CD loading on a PC that didn't support 3D "out of the box" similar to what wagner[DF] is reporting..... I used the alt. cd, and it was fine
[17:28] <bjsnider> the kernel will load a blacklisted module? not much point to blacklisting modules then
[17:28] <KM0201> then after install, it defaulted to the 2D desktop, then i installed the 3D driver, and switched to unity.
[17:28] <mrdeb> only if nvidia is not installed
[17:28] <wagner[DF]> KM0201, i have support 3d out of box
[17:28] <mrdeb> that is what i found
[17:28] <KM0201> wagner[DF]: what is your GPU?
[17:28] <MichaelKohler> what do you think about unity?
[17:29] <BluesKaj> BBL, ...lunchtime
[17:29]  * KM0201 <3's unity
[17:29] <KM0201> took some getting used to though
[17:29] <mrdeb> unity is good for grandparents
[17:29] <mrdeb> all is brought to front
[17:30] <wagner[DF]> KM0201, a intel something, how can I found this?
[17:30] <MichaelKohler> I'm not sure wether I'll like that. But let's give it a try in a few hours, I'm upgrading now
[17:30] <KM0201> wagner[DF]: lspci should be able to tell you (but some intel devices are causing issues... I have an old intel, and it works fine)
[17:31] <mrdeb> bjsnider: anyway i will not give out that advcie in hte future
[17:31] <wagner[DF]> KM0201, my trouble is ubiquity, i can start unity with a live cd
[17:32] <KM0201> dunno..
[17:32] <bjsnider> mrdeb, your system loaded nv, not nouveau
[17:32] <bjsnider> a blacklisted module will never be loaded
[17:32] <KM0201> updates updates updates.,. :)
[17:33] <mrdeb> depends
[17:33] <BluesKaj> mrdeb, I'm a grandparent , but I use KDE :)
[17:33] <mrdeb> im glad that plymouth boot logo is someone fixed now
[17:33] <mrdeb> oh cool
[17:33] <mrdeb> i just mean its good for persons not born in the computer age
[17:34] <hardcold> How do I switch choose Japanese to write and e-mail?
[17:34] <hardcold> *choose Japanese to write an email
[17:35] <andycc> hardcold, search for "keyboard" with the Dash, go to the layouts tab, add Japanese...
[17:35] <hardcold> In OSX I press cmd+space to switch to other languages
[17:35] <andycc> ...click Options, navigate to "key(s) to change layout", take your pick.
[17:35] <hardcold> andycc, okay, going to keybaord now
[17:38] <hardcold> andycc, that's for the keyoard layout. I don't want to switch to a Japanese layout, I want to write in Japanese...
[17:39] <frybye> so who is the bluetooth+natty expert? re: nokia bh-214 with natty - now working but only mono/poor quality..
[17:39] <MichaelKohler> hardcold: how would you translate Latin letters to Japanese letters?
[17:40] <andycc> hardcold, so you need an input method for writing kanji, right?
[17:40] <hardcold> the same way they do in Japan, you type in romaji
[17:40] <hardcold> if you want to write sakura, you type sakure
[17:40] <frybye> MichaelKohler: eh - add 10g of strontium-90?
[17:40] <hardcold> sakura
[17:40] <hardcold> Japanese uses a syllabry
[17:41] <MichaelKohler> let's stay politically correct here please
[17:41] <hardcold> sa ku ra, each are a character
[17:41] <andycc> hardcold, try searching for "input", you should get "keyboard input methods"...
[17:41] <MichaelKohler> ah okay, and you want to have that translated to the "signs"?
[17:41] <frybye> ok MichaelKohler - is a bad bad topic for "humour" I admit.. they in fact have my 200% solidarity..
[17:43] <hardcold> andycc, Japanese isn't listed in the inputs, and there is no option to add it
[17:43] <hardcold> andycc, but yes, I need a Japanese input
[17:43] <Roasted_> Is Unity Ubuntu only or are any other distros looking at it?
[17:44] <andycc> hardcold, my guess is that you have to install SCIM or something to that effect.
[17:44] <hardcold> andycc, I see I can set Ubuntu to flip through languages the same as OSX
[17:44] <andycc> I doubt you'll get a lot of help on that here though, it's not exactly Natty-specific. Try asking in #ubuntu too.
[17:45] <JAAAAAAA> hi
[17:45] <JAAAAAAA> in my openion
[17:45] <JAAAAAAA> IF gnome 3 then unity
[17:45] <JAAAAAAA> because i hate gnome 3
[17:45] <hardcold> andycc, so Japanese does not come with ubuntu by default I guess
[17:45] <arand_> JAAAAAAA: Thanks for sharing..
[17:45] <andycc> JAAAAAAA, "if gnome 3 then unity"? I don't quite follow.
[17:45] <hardcold> ?
[17:46] <andycc> (is this some kind of new meme?)
[17:46] <JAAAAAAA> i hate gnome 3
[17:46] <JAAAAAAA> so either unity or kde
[17:46] <JAAAAAAA> and i decided kde
[17:46] <hardcold> andycc, well it must because I'm reading Japanese
[17:46] <hardcold> googling now...
[17:46] <andycc> hardcold, take a look at Tegaki (it's in the Software Center)
[17:47] <knightautwell> anyone know how to install the module for the 802.11n wlan usb wifi so i can use it with hostapd
[17:48] <andycc> knightautwell, is this a Natty (Ubuntu 11.04 beta 2) specific question? If not, ask in #ubuntu, and preferably provide us with the exact make/model of the dongle.
[17:49] <knightautwell> yea it is. ok the make and model is a wifi max ralink usb wifi dongle i think thats what you mean?
[17:50] <knightautwell> and 802.11n wlan
[17:50] <mineralntl> anyone running 11.04 on a Dell Latitude D630?
[17:51] <andycc> knightautwell, type "lspci | grep Network" in a terminal, see if you get any details
[17:52] <mrdeb> is it worth putting in a dedicated graphics card
[17:52] <andycc> Oh, wait, no
[17:52] <mrdeb> or wil it burn out the motherboard faster
[17:52] <andycc> lsusb instead of lspci, knightautwell
[17:54] <knightautwell> ok here it is. Bus 001 Device 005: ID 148f:3070 Ralink Technology, Corp. RT2870/RT3070 Wireless Adapter
[17:55] <knightautwell> if it helps any im trying to use it for a wireless AP
[17:55] <JAAAAAAA> hi
[17:56] <andycc> knightautwell, first Google result: http://wiki.debian.org/rt2870sta
[17:56] <andycc> (didn't ubottu have a !google command?)
[18:00] <KM0201> !google
[18:02] <mongy> is there a way to get the parallax effect back in compiz/unity when switching viewports?
[18:02] <mongy> a full slide is pretty ugly
[18:02] <knightautwell> i have a question how would i do this? Broadcom 43xx cards (bcm43xx.ko)
[18:02] <knightautwell> Broadcom cards support master mode using the reverse-engineered kernel driver. You need to enable (or make as a module) the Softmac wireless extensions and BCM43xx wireless driver.
[18:03] <KM0201> has anyone had trouble enabling "rain"... w/ compiz... my laptop locks up whenever i enable it.
[18:04] <knightautwell> i have a broadcom BCM43224 802.11a/b/g/n wifi card built in
[18:04] <andycc> knightautwell, your card is supported by the Broadcom STA driver on Linux.
[18:06] <andycc> knightautwell, there is the official b43 page at http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43 and there's my tutorial at http://j.mp/hbe3ph
[18:06] <knightautwell> you mean the driver in the  restricted drivers? im wondering how to put it in master mode so i can use it for an AP if my ralink doesnt work out
[18:07] <andycc> knightautwell, oh. STA doesn't support master mode, IIRC.
[18:07] <knightautwell> ok thanks ill check it out.
[18:07] <andycc> (and your card isn't supported by b43)
[18:07] <knightautwell> oh then any idea what i could do?
[18:07] <hardcold> andycc, Okay, this is how it's done. 1) Go to language support and install Japanese, 2) log out 3) go to Keyboard Input Methods (oddly listed in "other" ) select Japanese and add it.
[18:08] <hardcold> これは日本語
[18:09] <hardcold> Does that show up as Japanese for you?
[18:09] <andycc> hardcold, right, Language Support. Yes, it does. ^^
[18:09] <JAAAAAAA> do you think i can use gnome 2 in future ?? no ??
[18:11] <hardcold> andycc, you're thinking was logical that it would be under Keyboard, which is what I looked at before asking. I think keyboard input should be added to that, not a separate application tucked away in "other"
[18:11] <hardcold> OR it should be put in Language Support
[18:13] <andycc> hardcold, you can always try going through 300 layers of GNOME code and abstraction layers to change that.
[18:14] <hardcold> thank you, when I teach myself to program I'll be sure and do that
[18:14] <knightautwell> anyone know how to setup the Ralink Technology, Corp. RT2870/RT3070 Wireless Adapter to go in master mode?
[18:14] <hardcold> andycc, could they not simply have a button that opens the app within those?
[18:14] <andycc> knightautwell, this *is* a general question. Please ask in #ubuntu, you'll get help faster.
[18:14] <hardcold> I mean, launch the application
[18:16] <knightautwell> uhm is my irc chat messing up or is there noone on in the #ubuntu chat
[18:17] <andycc> knightautwell, there are 1530+ users there.
[18:17] <guntbert> knightautwell: there are many (1531) but usually no one responds to such a question
[18:17] <Sary> knightautwell, there is 1537 user in #ubuntu.
[18:17] <Sary> knightautwell, Look here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1285828
[18:17] <guntbert> !ask | knightautwell
[18:17] <knightautwell> sorry my computer took a minute for it to pop up people
[18:18] <Sary> np. it happens.
[18:19] <JAAAAAAA> hello i have got a question, beta 2 or daily ?
[18:20] <andycc> JAAAAAAA, beta 2.
[18:20] <andycc> (it should be stabler)
[18:24] <mongy> todays daily has broken (missing) partition abilities.
[18:24] <mongy> I opted for the 19th daily, works fine.
[18:26] <mrdeb> the daily doesnt install
[18:27] <mongy> yeah that too :)
[18:31] <lcb> mrdeb, /daily/current/ or /daily-live/current/ ?
[18:31] <mongy> yay, vbox4 repo for natty
[18:33] <mrdeb> live
[18:33] <peto> Beta 2 will automatically update to release?
[18:33] <KM0201> !update
[18:33] <KM0201> !release
[18:33] <KM0201> hmm
[18:33] <KM0201> i know its one of those
[18:33] <KM0201> !current
[18:33] <KM0201> peto: yes, it will
[18:33] <arand_> it's !final
[18:34] <peto> ok, thanks :)
[18:34] <Cas07> who do I ask about backporting a pygtk patch for ubuntu
[18:34] <KM0201> !final
[18:34] <KM0201> duh!
[18:34] <KM0201> :)
[18:34] <lcb> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[18:35] <mongy> 19th works
[18:35] <mongy> didnt try the 20th
[18:35] <arand_> Cas07: #ubuntu-motu, #ubuntu-packaging, or #ubuntu-devel might be it.
[18:35] <lcb> mrdeb, so you got up to disk partitioning and got stuck?
[18:36] <mongy> lcb, non existant
[18:36] <mongy> goes straight to the install process, but doesnt install or do anything.
[18:36] <lcb> i just burned usb with unetbootin and if so...
[18:36] <BluesKaj> bottiger, are you there?
[18:36] <Cas07> arand_: cheers
[18:37] <lcb> k, tks mongy
[18:40] <mrdeb> lcb: it doesnt bring up a disk parittion section. itgives you account info setup and goes to the slide show and doesnt do anything
[18:44] <lcb> mrdeb, ok. so even if you go back or ppreviously partition disk .... probably it happens
[18:45] <mrdeb> lcb: it doesnt give an option to insall anyhwhere
[18:47] <lcb> mrdeb, so... lets wait... is about time for updates. maybe in a while it will be corrected. thanks
[18:50] <mongy> the iso wont get updated till tomorrow.  just grab 1 from a day or 2 earlier.
[18:50] <rww> or grab beta 2 and update after installation
[18:50] <knightautwell> can someone help me with hostapd i get error  nl80211 not found. nl80211 driver initialization failed.
[18:50] <lcb> mongy, you mean on daily current? :o
[18:50] <mongy> well sometimes they have added an updated one .1
[18:51] <mongy> yes the daily-live current.
[18:51] <mongy> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/  I used the 19th today.  worked
[18:51] <kamal> I just had a neat Natty experience:  While using my old *Maverick* system, I found myself momentarily confused (and then annoyed) that my gnome-terminal's "failed" to snap to half the screen width like I've gotten used to them doing ... "Oh wait, only Natty's Unity does that!"   Go Unity!
[18:53] <lcb> mongy, oh yeah.. being updated about 9 am each day
[18:53] <anass> hello, I've a problem in installing natty
[18:53] <anass> I copied it to my USB Flash by unetbootin
[18:54] <anass> but when I install it the installer crashing
[18:54] <anass> it crashed when it try to scan cd for packages
[18:55] <anass> how I can resolve this problem?
[18:55] <anass> I'm talking now from natty on my flash USB
[18:56] <mrdeb> use usb creator
[18:56] <lcb> ... but when installing it crash at what point?
[18:57] <lcb> anass, so you do that while as a "live cd"? /not installing at all
[18:58] <anass> lcb: yes
[18:58] <BluesKaj> BBL ...errands
[18:58] <anass> My DVD-ROM dosen't work, and I've to use USB as Live CD
[18:58] <lcb> anass, two ppl had that same issue about 2 days ago, here. the conclusion was to burn the image again.
[18:59] <lcb> anass, beta 2, isn't? or daily releases?
[18:59] <anass> lcb: yes beta 2
[19:00] <step2> freaky[t], you there? how are the graphics?
[19:00] <lcb> anass, do you have a dvd+rw handy?
[19:00] <lcb> ohh but you can't use it... ok
[19:01] <anass> lcb: it's not working
[19:01] <lcb> only on natty or.. broken?
[19:01] <anass> lcb: It's not working with ubuntu 9.04 too
[19:02] <mrdeb> use usb creator
[19:02] <anass> mrdeb: can I use it from the same USB  Flash?
[19:02] <mrdeb> yeah
[19:03] <anass> I tried, but it gave me "Permission  Denied"
[19:03] <lcb> anass, really...  but works... if unetbootin didn't work, try mrdeb suggestion. or use the free ultimate boot cd and use 'smart boot'
[19:04] <lcb> anass, try formating that usb, fat32, before burning it
[19:04] <mrdeb> are you using windows to put iso on usb?
[19:04] <mongy> cant you just dd the iso to the usb stick...... I seem to remember you can
[19:04] <anass> lcb: I'll try mrdeb suggestion, I faced this problem in beta1 too. I tried the both ways (Unetbootin, and USB-
[19:04] <anass> Startup-Creator)
[19:04] <anass> and they failed.
[19:04] <mrdeb> ok
[19:05] <unityproblem> hello..
[19:05] <mrdeb> hi
[19:06] <unityproblem> i dont see my exit button on any of my windows in natty..
[19:06] <lcb> anass, is the cd correctly setted in bios? or you made some changes?
[19:06] <unityproblem> exit minmise or any other buttons
[19:06] <phibxr> unityproblem, which buttons do you have?
[19:06] <unityproblem> i dont see my cross button minimize button and maximize button
[19:07] <unityproblem> and i am not abe to move windows..
[19:07] <anass> lcb: I tried to put it in the first boot, but it didn't open UBUNTU 9.04
[19:07] <phibxr> unityproblem, do you see any buttons? do your applications have a title bar?
[19:07] <lcb> anass, that's weird
[19:07] <unityproblem> no.
[19:07] <unityproblem> they dont have a title bar
[19:07] <lcb> anass, "old" computer?
[19:08] <unityproblem> i need to close them from file--> exit
[19:08] <phibxr> unityproblem, sounds like some issue with compiz then.
[19:08] <unityproblem> yes evn i thaught so...
[19:08] <topyli> unityproblem: hit ctrl+f2, run compiz --replace
[19:08] <topyli> you have no window manager
[19:08] <topyli> er, alt+f2 even
[19:09] <unityproblem> topyli its flashed for a while but no luck.
[19:09] <unityproblem> no buttons yet..
[19:09] <mrdeb> just log in with classic , no effects
[19:10] <topyli> alright, then you have no compositing i suppose. ubuntu should have falled back to classic
[19:10] <freaky[t]> step2 thanks for your help but ive installed fedora now - there graphics are working
[19:10] <unityproblem> i am in classic mode. i dont like unity very much..
[19:10] <phibxr> topyli, alt+f2 requires compiz to be up and running in unity.
[19:10] <lcb> anass, a couple things. if that computer is dedicated only for tests and there's nothing in it, revert bios setup to defaults. if there is an opintion there to detect devices do it. if you have "optimal settings" option, do it.
[19:10] <anass> lcb: No, it's a bit modern
[19:10] <unityproblem> i am in ubuntu classic mode
[19:10] <lcb> opintion=option...
[19:10] <mrdeb> his pc may not spport booting from usb
[19:10] <topyli> phibxr: oh yeah. *slaps self*. it's a window manager binding :)
[19:10] <unityproblem> i dont like unity!
[19:11] <unityproblem> lol
[19:11] <anass> lcb: OK, thank you for your advice,  I'll try!
[19:11] <mrdeb> ]or he's choosing  wrong device at bootup
[19:11] <topyli> unityproblem: classic (no effects) ?
[19:11] <unityproblem> with effects..
[19:11] <lcb> anass, i would try to solve that cd issue firt, you know...
[19:11] <topyli> unityproblem: yeah the effects are the problem
[19:11] <anass> lcb: I'm copying the important files from USB Flash to hard disk.
[19:11] <anass> lcb: OK
[19:12] <unityproblem> but i used to see the task bar before.!
[19:12] <unityproblem> went off suddenly!
[19:12] <lcb> anass, even if you install natty you'll still /probably/ keep having issued w devices/mediums
[19:12] <unityproblem> more ovr i am not able to resize windows..
[19:12] <unityproblem> iam able to move some of them
[19:12] <topyli> unityproblem: well you have no window manager, that's why
[19:13] <unityproblem> wat do i do?
[19:13] <unityproblem> !
[19:13] <topyli> unityproblem: login to classic (no effects) like mrdeb says
[19:13] <anass> lcb: sorry, where the installer saving its logs?
[19:13] <lcb> anass, another thing; it's good to have one or 2 dvd+rw/s.  so we can use it a couple times instead of spending money on cds
[19:13] <unityproblem> but i like the effects!
[19:14] <topyli> unityproblem: easier to debug if you have a working system :)
[19:14] <anass> lcb: aha!
[19:14] <unityproblem> will it getresolved in the final release?
[19:14] <lcb> anass, /var/logs
[19:14] <topyli> unityproblem: hopefully
[19:14] <unityproblem> do u guys use unity ?
[19:14] <anass> lcb: I searched in /var/log/ but I can't found the file!
[19:15] <lcb> we are all united with unity
[19:15] <lcb> try in ram, use nautilus
[19:15] <unityproblem> really?
[19:15] <KM0201> "Unity we stand"
[19:15] <anass> lcb: I've PC and Laptop but my parents took the laptop because my exams is very near
[19:15] <KM0201> :)
[19:15] <topyli> unityproblem: what you can do right now is launch terminal and run 'compiz --replace' from there. you'll get error messages which might be useful
[19:15] <Sahm> KM0201, is that you :) what up .. 201 stand up!:D
[19:16] <KM0201> Sahm: well.. its me.. but I don't think I know you.. ?  201 stand up?
[19:16] <lcb> anass, i understand their point: no flirting with girls on the net while in exams
[19:16] <lcb> :)
[19:16] <Sahm> I don't , and will never use unity !
[19:16] <mrdeb> y not
[19:16] <unityproblem> compiz (core) - Error: Plugin 'text' not loaded.
[19:16] <anass> lcb: but I'm not flirting with girls! I'm translating Ubuntu Apps :(
[19:17] <Sahm> KM0201, Nah , i think you do , but mostly you forgot!
[19:17] <lcb> anass, don't waste time trying to check the problem. it happened already and was a pain trying to solve it
[19:17] <KM0201> Sahm: well then by all means, enlighten me... i admit my memory is sometimes short
[19:18] <topyli> unityproblem: that's strange-ish. 'text' doesn't sound like a very challenging plugin to run :)
[19:18] <lcb> anass, ahhh... that's nice. look. can you use your usb to do that? you need some space in it
[19:18] <anass> lcb: hehehe, I'm trying ...
[19:18] <klausklaussen> hello, i am klaus klauß and i have a question.
[19:18] <topyli> unityproblem: you could search launchpad for that error and see if there's a relevant bug report
[19:19] <anass> lcb: I discovered that unetbootin put my USB Flash as CD-ROM
[19:19] <klausklaussen> I hope somebody can help me.
[19:19] <Sahm> KM0201, Saudi Arabia.
[19:19] <guntbert> !ask | klausklaussen
[19:19] <anass> lcb: so the flash located in /media/cdrom
[19:19] <klausklaussen> Okay, but before i think , its important to know who is who. so i do a question round, i begin:
[19:20] <Sahm> O' and that 201 stand up , i though you're from NJ 201 area :S
[19:20] <KM0201> Sahm: oh i think i remember now...
[19:20] <lcb> anass, i'm running now a Ultimate Boot CD on GParted option, it's a live and complete environment, and i saved a couple files already in the usb. but you could also do it to an external HD or even another USB
[19:20] <KM0201> Sahm: well, i'm not from NJ.. so.. thats why that didnj't make sense to me
[19:20] <rww> klausklaussen: #ubuntu+1 is for Ubuntu natty discussion and support. See #ubuntu-offtopic for chat.
[19:20] <klausklaussen> I am Klausklaussen 74 years old, living in Munich and having a flat there. My favourite meal is spaghetti bolognose. And i bought a new pc. the shipper says it is good this.
[19:20] <Sahm> KM0201, My bad.
[19:21] <klausklaussen> so and my problem is that i have not an operating system on my pc machine
[19:22] <klausklaussen> IT would be possible to use 11.04 for me, but is it recommend ?
[19:22] <sam-_-> i want to upgrade from 10.10 to 11.04. is there anything i should know?
[19:22] <unityproblem> sorry guys got dc..
[19:22] <klausklaussen> !natty …|sam
[19:22] <lcb> anass, if you have timeline with what you are doing, burn a USB with xubuntu, then run it live. but i believe if you revert your bios to default your cd prob will be resolved.
[19:22] <klausklaussen> !natty sam
[19:22] <klausklaussen> !natty | sam
[19:22] <unityproblem> i did refresh it many times but nothing happens
[19:22] <klausklaussen> Do you recommend me 10.04, 10.10 or 11.04 ?
[19:23] <rww> sam-_-: read the release notes for natty (last URL in the channel /topic)
[19:23] <sam-_-> wait. isnt't this ubuntu+1?
[19:23] <sam-_-> rww: thanks
[19:23] <Sahm> am running Natty beta2 , haven't faced an issue yet.
[19:23] <unityproblem> do u guys use unity?
[19:23] <nijabo> Yep
[19:23] <anass> lcb: I'll revert my bios after copying finished, I can't download XUbuntu now, I've to go to my teacher to study french now!
[19:23] <klausklaussen> can i upgrade this beta to final ??
[19:24] <nijabo> I'm having issues with my wifi, but hopefully that will be solved with the final release
[19:24] <rww> klausklaussen: yes
[19:24] <nijabo> klausklaussen, you can, but it is recommended to do a clean install
[19:24] <klausklaussen> ok without any rest ?
[19:24] <rww> anass: Bonne chance!
[19:24] <klausklaussen> nijabo: really ?
[19:24] <lcb> anass, :) bood luck buddy.
[19:24] <nijabo> Yes, apperently there can be some problems when upgrading.
[19:24] <lcb> bood/good
[19:24] <klausklaussen> so if i have got beta 2 , i cant upgrade final
[19:24] <klausklaussen> ?
[19:24] <unityproblem> i dont like unity very much any comments people?
[19:24] <nijabo> Next time you do a clean install do a partition for your/home
[19:25] <rww> klausklaussen: Normal package updates from beta 2 will get you to final just fine when it's released.
[19:25] <nijabo> unityproblem, I'm starting to get comfortable with Unity
[19:25] <frybye> afaik - the beta becomes the full version if you keep doing the updates... or?
[19:25] <anass> lcb: you write a lot of typos ;-)
[19:25] <sam-_-> ignore if it's too offtopic: openoffice is dead, right?
[19:25] <klausklaussen> rww yes but nijabe said other
[19:25] <rww> frybye: correct
[19:25] <nijabo> Been using it on and off from Alpha 1 and now it's really starting to come together
[19:25] <lcb> unityproblem, a matter of tastes. but you can still use ubuntu desktop classic
[19:25] <unityproblem> i somehow dont find it very useful.
[19:25] <Sahm> unityproblem, what about gnome3 , any news for it coming for Natty!
[19:25] <nijabo> frybye, yes it will get to the full version
[19:25] <rww> klausklaussen:  no, that's not what they said.
[19:25] <klausklaussen> frybye yes but nijabe said other
[19:25] <Sahm> *coming to
[19:25] <klausklaussen> ok thanks
[19:25] <nijabo> Sahm, they are working with a PPA
[19:25] <lcb> anass, yes i do :)
[19:25] <unityproblem> does it uses up a lot of memory due to 3d accelaration?
[19:26] <nijabo> NO, I said you can, but it is recommended to do a clean install because there can be complications with upgrading.
[19:26] <klausklaussen> so its the best to install beta 2 now ?? 10.10 is old and 10.04 is old i think
[19:26] <nijabo> It might work for you, give it a try. I sure will.
[19:26] <klausklaussen> nijabo: thars wrong
[19:26] <nijabo> I'm wrong?
[19:26] <klausklaussen> nijabo: you mean 10.10 -> 11.04
[19:26] <rww> klausklaussen: Ubuntu natty is not released yet, so if you don't know what you're doing, you shouldn't be using it.
[19:26] <nijabo> No
[19:26] <klausklaussen> oh
[19:26] <nijabo> I mean Beta -> Full version in general
[19:26] <KM0201> whats the terminal command to find what group you're in again?
[19:26] <klausklaussen> rww: okay so what you recommend me now ?
[19:26] <unityproblem> rww its fun to try out though!
[19:27] <nijabo> I'm just saying what I've heard several comments about it.
[19:27] <nijabo> klausklaussen, I'd recommend 10.10 and then do a clean install to 11.04 when it is released.
[19:27] <frybye> if the question was about updating from 10.10 to 11.04 - I think it might be valid to reccomend a fresh install - but if you now get a beta 2 and do the updates till the 28/4 then I see no problem personally...
[19:27] <rww> klausklaussen: 10.10 if you don't mind upgrading every 6 to 18 months, 10.04 if you'd prefer to upgrade every 2 to 3 years
[19:27] <unityproblem> klausklaussen : are u interested in experimenting?
[19:27] <Sahm> nijabo, thats good , so the common question should be : is it stable yet?
[19:27] <nijabo> But if you want to be a bit of a daredevil you can always try 11.04 beta
[19:27] <nijabo> It's decently stable, no issues for me now, except a minor wifi issue.
[19:28] <klausklaussen> unityproblem: i am, but not for this pc okay.
[19:28] <unityproblem> nijabo its not so stable!
[19:28] <anass> rww: Bonne Chance? I'm sorry I don't know how to reply to this situation  yet
[19:28] <nijabo> unityproblem, It's stable for me.
[19:28] <rww> anass: approximately, "good luck"
[19:28] <unityproblem>  klausklaussen: then go for 10.10
[19:28] <nijabo> I'm using Ubuntu 11.04 b2 as we speak.
[19:28] <klausklaussen> ok thanks
[19:28] <unityproblem> nijabo unity crashes a lot of times for me..
[19:28] <klausklaussen> unityproblem/rww when should i upgrade??, 28th april or later ?? i think later better ??
[19:28] <Sahm> nijabo, so you think that wi-fi issue might be related to gnome3.
[19:29] <anass> rww: I know its meaning, but I don't know the reply!
[19:29] <unityproblem>  nijabo: evn i am using it!
[19:29] <lcb> if the intention is to upgrade, wait for final (on 28th) (since an upgrade means you already have a lot on the previous release)
[19:29] <rww> klausklaussen: I'd give it a couple of weeks for the package servers to settle down and any bugs to be ironed out
[19:29] <nijabo> klausklaussen, they say that after a month of the release a lot of initial bugs will be sorted out.
[19:29] <klausklaussen> ok thanks
[19:29] <nijabo> What rww said.
[19:29] <unityproblem> later the better as u dont want to experimant
[19:29] <klausklaussen> thanks
[19:29] <step2> freaky[t], okay. otherwise I think it would work better with the open source driver (not the one you install with additional drivers)
[19:29] <frybye> unityproblem: dont want to upset you but I feel that you are in a minority if having lots of problems with natty at it present state of development..
[19:29] <Sahm> KM0201, running Natty beta2 ?
[19:30] <step2> freaky[t], kind of curious now, can you check which driver fedora uses?
[19:30] <freaky[t]> step2 no im currently in windows
[19:30] <unityproblem> fryby : i am experiencing a few issues..
[19:30] <nijabo> KM0201, what do you mean with group? Usergrou?
[19:30] <step2> freaky[t], okay
[19:30] <unityproblem> like missing my task bar!
[19:30] <freaky[t]> step2 and im not that familiar with fedora
[19:30] <anass>  restarting to revert bios and try to burn natty on CD
[19:30] <anass> good bye
[19:30] <nijabo> groups or groups user
[19:31] <unityproblem> i am gonna tr fedora next. ubuntu is made too easire to use!
[19:31] <unityproblem> try*
[19:32] <Sahm> Welcome to Ubuntu release cycle's :S
[19:32] <sam-_-> what's the status on unity 2d?
[19:33] <step2> freaky[t], if you are in it and feel like checking, do cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log  and post the output on pastie, would be nice
[19:33] <jbicha> sam-_-: um, it works, what's your question?
[19:33] <frybye> I have installed natty on an oldish pc with an agp grafic card that could only manage the 2d unity.. and on a medium level pc that has worked fine with 3d unity and here now using on a phenom-II e core with gforce 240 and 4gb ram and is working welll - the sort of prob. I hve is that a nokia bluetooth headset runs only as mono instead of the stereo it should etc.. not exactly a main-line problem..
[19:33] <unityproblem> is ubuntu running partial upgrade?
[19:33] <sam-_-> jbicha: so it's out of beta and feature complete?
[19:33] <unityproblem> fryby if u type such big question make sure to use pastebin.com
[19:33] <sam-_-> jbicha: basically unity without 3d?
[19:34] <jbicha> sam-_-: yes, it's comparable to Unity but neither Unity nor Unity 2D are out of beta yet as 11.04 has not been released
[19:35] <sam-_-> jbicha: ok. but they are both pretty stable, right?
[19:35] <jbicha> Unity 2D is not installed by default but it's in the repositories
[19:35] <frybye> jbicha: has been the feature freeze though!
[19:35] <sam-_-> jbicha: y. since i do an upgrade i will a
[19:35] <jbicha> sam-_-: they are stable enough, 2D might even be more stable than Unity
[19:35] <sam-_-> jbicha: have to install both manually
[19:35] <unityproblem> any people know how to restore the task bar..?
[19:35] <unityproblem> i have lost it!
[19:36] <sam-_-> jbicha: ok. thx
[19:36] <jbicha> sam-_-: no, Unity will be installed when you upgrade, Unity 2D is an extra install if you want it but it will be included in 11.10 6 months from now
[19:36] <nijabo> Unity 2d is the fallback incase a computer cannot handle 3d acceleration
[19:36] <nijabo> From what I could gather.
[19:37] <nijabo> sam-_-, you get Unity when you upgrade to 11.04
[19:37] <Marikka> hi
[19:37] <nijabo> I tried an upgrade this time when I tried 11.04
[19:37] <unityproblem> i guess it must be for netbooks? unity 2d?
[19:37] <nijabo> Worked flawlessly
[19:37] <sam-_-> jbicha: ah. and gnome? was it dropped completely?
[19:37] <nijabo> unityproblem, my netbook has Unity 3d
[19:37] <Marikka> newbie wants to knoq
[19:37] <Marikka> newbie wants to know
[19:37] <unityproblem> works well?
[19:37] <nijabo> sam-_-, Unity is a shell for Gnome
[19:37] <Sahm> unityproblem, right click on an "empty" portion of the panel. Then choose add to panel. Then you'll see the "switch off"
[19:37] <nijabo> unityproblem, works very well
[19:38] <rww> Marikka: Hi again klaus
[19:38] <sam-_-> nijabo: y. i was thinking of metacity
[19:38] <jbicha> sam-_-: Ubuntu is still Gnome, just a different frontend
[19:38] <nijabo> Ah
[19:38] <Marikka> hello, my name is marika not marikka
[19:38] <unityproblem> Sahm i am not able to move or resize windows so i am not able to go to an empty space!
[19:38] <sam-_-> jbicha: can i still have the "old" frontend
[19:38] <unityproblem> marikka just say your question
[19:38] <nijabo> :P
[19:38] <Marikka> unityproblem my name is marika not marikka
[19:39] <nijabo> Marikka, your username is Marikka
[19:39] <sam-_-> jbicha: also is gnome 3.0 included in 11.04 or the older version?
[19:39] <rww> Marikka: I am growing rather weary of your continued offtopic chatter.
[19:39] <jbicha> sam-_-: yes, just pick Ubuntu Classic on the login screen, but the old interface will eventually no longer be supported
[19:39] <unityproblem> nijabo what is your netbook configuration?
[19:39] <Marikka> how can i switch my name
[19:39] <nijabo> Netbook configuration?
[19:39] <sam-_-> jbicha: k. thx
[19:39] <nijabo>  /nick NAME
[19:39] <unityproblem> make a new acc
[19:39] <nijabo> Type that
[19:39] <unityproblem>  nijabo yes
[19:39] <rww> lastlog 87.151.111
[19:39] <Marikka>  /nick NAME
[19:39] <Sahm> unityproblem, unlock a couple of your system tray icons, move them slightly, and create your button in between.
[19:39] <nijabo> without the space and NAME is a variable
[19:39] <rww> heh, missed a slash
[19:40] <Marikka>  /nick Marika
[19:40] <nijabo> where you are to type the name you wish to have
[19:40]  * nijabo sigh
[19:40] <Marikka> work it ??
[19:40] <Estragon> Hi :)
[19:40] <nijabo> Is he trolling?
[19:40] <freaky[t]> step2 im very busy right now sorry
[19:40] <Marikka> hi estragon
[19:40] <freaky[t]> step2 and i cant remember the command until reboot lol
[19:40] <freaky[t]> and i dont have irc set up
[19:40] <freaky[t]> etc.
[19:40] <freaky[t]> on fedora
[19:40] <unityproblem> sahm i am talking abt indivisual windows i am not seeing my close minimize and maximize buttons
[19:40] <Estragon> Im on 11.04 beta with all apt-get updates on and im experiencing issues with nautilus
[19:40] <freaky[t]> im afk now
[19:40] <Marikka>  /nick Marika
[19:40] <Estragon> I just cant do anything on it
[19:40] <Pici> Marikka: Don't put the space in front of the /
[19:40] <Marikka> ah
[19:41] <unityproblem> nijabo what is the net book config?
[19:41] <Estragon> including opening a file from desktop, viewing a folder ...
[19:41] <freaky[t]> step2 wait ill reboot
[19:41] <Estragon> is that a known issue ?
[19:41] <anass> lcb: returned back :)
[19:41] <lcb> anass, welcome back
[19:41] <anass> lcb: I reverted the bios, but it didn't open the Ubuntu CD
[19:42] <Sahm> unityproblem what desktop them you're using!
[19:42] <unityproblem> ubuntu classic
[19:42] <anass> lcb: although the Bios saw the type of the cd-rom!
[19:42] <unityproblem> (with effects)
[19:42] <Estragon> http://pastebin.com/CnyUihQJ when I run "nautilus" from a shell
[19:42] <Marika> so now my question
[19:43] <mekeor> Estragon: is it the latest ubuntu-version? -- "sudo apt-get update"...?
[19:43] <phibxr> unity-2d seems to be lagging behind a bit. dragging the mouse to the left edge of the screen does not show the launcher, and tabbing in the dash does nothing at all. does anyone know if this will change before release?
[19:43] <Sahm> unityproblem, have you tried to logout and back-in!
[19:43] <lcb> anass, i have no clue at this point...  trying to mount it?
[19:43] <anass> lcb: I'm now using USB-Startup-Creator to install ubuntu natty on my flash that I'm talking from!
[19:43] <unityproblem> sahm yes i have!
[19:43] <Estragon> mekeor: yep apt-get update / apt-get dist-upgrade are up to date
[19:43] <lcb> anass, even though cd not working...
[19:44] <anass> lcb: how can i mount it ??
[19:44] <lcb> anass, is that a flash one or a usb hard drive?
[19:44] <Marika> anass sudo mount /dev/sda1
[19:44] <Marika> can s b help me
[19:44] <anass> lcb: it's Kingstone USB Flash!
[19:45] <mekeor> does anybody know how to remove GDM correctly?
[19:45] <anass> lcb: I feel that is the last time I can open this.
[19:45] <Estragon> any idea of what to do ? (im experiencing the issue for already few days
[19:45] <lcb> anass, it seems that is a temp usage, so why don't you work from there?! maybe another usb will help too, to store some files
[19:46] <unityproblem> Estragon whatis your problem
[19:46] <unityproblem> /
[19:46] <anass> lcb: I stored the important files on the Hard disk!
[19:46] <mekeor> when typing "sudo apt-get remove gdm", apt wants to remove ubuntu-desktop, too; but i think this package is essential.., isn't it?
[19:46] <anass> lcb: the hard disk that I try to install natty on!
[19:46] <Estragon> nautilus is dead xD : when I run it from a shell I got http://pastebin.com/CnyUihQJ x 2
[19:46] <lcb> anass, yes.. or that way. and work in "live mode"
[19:46] <Marika> hi
[19:46] <mekeor> Marika: hi
[19:47] <anass> lcb: what is "live mode"?
[19:47] <unityproblem> estragon you want nautilus to run a root cmd?
[19:47] <lcb> anass, 'live cd'
[19:47] <lcb> anass, what you are doing now
[19:47] <Marika> my question is
[19:47] <unityproblem> or do changes in the root directory?
[19:47] <Estragon> nop
[19:47] <Marika> what is a ISO ?
[19:47] <unityproblem> then?
[19:47] <anass> lcb: I want to ask you how to run it from RAM?
[19:47] <mekeor> Marika: seriously?
[19:47] <Marika> yess
[19:47] <maco> Marika: a disk image
[19:47] <Estragon> it doesnt respond, nothing to do with root
[19:48] <Marika> okay and i downloaded it how can i use it ??
[19:48] <anass> lcb: so I can format it and reinstall another linux distro on
[19:48] <unityproblem> try gksudo nautilus ?
[19:48] <maco> Marika: burn it to a cd
[19:48] <mekeor> Marika: UNETBOOTIN
[19:48] <Marika> oh i ordered one ubuntu cd
[19:48] <Marika> in shipubuntu
[19:48] <Estragon> unityproblem: works :)
[19:48] <mekeor> Marika: that's the easiest way!
[19:48] <lcb> anass, most of what you are doing now is running in ram
[19:48] <Marika> it arrived today
[19:48] <lcb> anass, you can save it to the hd or usb then
[19:48] <Marika> let me look, there stands CANONICAL UBUNTU 8.04, right ?
[19:49] <maco> Marika: thats a pretty old release. its not being supported past next week
[19:49] <Marika> no i meant 10.10
[19:49] <maco> (on the desktop)
[19:49] <anass> lcb: OK, I'm now installing natty by USB-Disk-Creator
[19:49] <maco> oh
[19:50] <Marika> i have two cds KUBUNTU 10.10 UBUNTU 10.10
[19:50] <Marika> what take ?
[19:50] <Marika> which
[19:50] <mekeor> ubuntu ;P
[19:50] <Marika> ok
[19:50] <mekeor> (thats my suggestion)
[19:50] <maco> i like kubuntu
[19:50] <lcb> !enter | marika
[19:50] <Marika> can i put them into the 3,5 floppy drive ??
[19:50] <maco> put one in your cd drive, reboot, and try it out. then do the same with other
[19:50] <maco> see which one you like best
[19:50] <mekeor> Marika: 3,5? GB?
[19:50] <Marika> no 3,5 floppy disk
[19:51] <maco> if you don't have a cd drive, you're going to need to get a newer machine or a USB cd drive
[19:51] <Marika> oh
[19:51] <maco> floppy disks kind of went out of fashion a decade ago
[19:51] <freaky[t]> step2, im here :)
[19:51] <Marika> i dont know my pc, but i think its an notebook @maco
[19:51] <lcb> or a couple dozens of floppies
[19:52] <maco> wasnt it 40 floppies in the *90s*?
[19:52] <anass> lcb: OK, I'll restart my PC to boot USB Flash Now
[19:52] <anass> Good bye
[19:52] <maco> itd be about 600 floppies for ubuntu
[19:52] <mekeor> anass: goodbye
[19:52] <maco> maybe 500
[19:52] <Marika> and whats with which one?? there stands "LG CD ROM"
[19:52] <Marika> is okay ?
[19:52] <maco> yes
[19:52] <Marika> okay but how can get open ??
[19:52] <maco> press the button
[19:52] <lcb> Marika, why trying to install 11.04 and not 10.10?
[19:53] <Marika> i try 10.10
[19:53] <Marika> oh yes its open i put cd on there and closed it again restart
[19:53] <mekeor> does anybody in here know, how to remove GDM?
[19:53] <Marika> in
[19:53] <Marika> i never had a pc before !!
[19:54] <Olivaneksa> hi
[19:54] <Olivaneksa> can anyone help me?
[19:54] <Marika> no because me helping
[19:54] <lcb> mekeor, sudo apt-get --purge remove gdm | you'll lose a lot of things
[19:54] <sam-_-> !ask | Olivaneksa
[19:54] <Marika> so he asked my if i want try ubuntu or install ubuntu ????
[19:54] <Marika> g
[19:54] <Olivaneksa> ok then :)
[19:54] <Olivaneksa> this is my problem: i can't control screen brightness, it's dimmed all the time. my notebook is hp 6735s
[19:55] <lcb> hmm
[19:55] <Marika> so he asked my if i want try ubuntu or install ubuntu ???? @ maco
[19:55] <Olivaneksa> i googled for a solution about 5 hours and nothing helped :S
[19:56] <lcb> good move
[19:56] <unityproblem> lol
[19:56] <maco> marienz: "try"
[19:57] <maco> marienz: oops not you
[19:57] <Sprechkaese> in 11.04 I only have ~1MB/sec  speed when copying files, but in 10.11 I had ~24MB/sec. Where can I get help on that?
[19:58] <lcb> Sprechkaese, exactly same media?
[19:58] <lcb> that <peer> guy...
[19:59] <mekeor> lcb: thx, but that's the problem: i dont want to "loose lots of things"..!
[20:00] <lcb> mekeor, so go for it :)
[20:01] <lcb> my personal experience, i tried to upgrade/change my girlfriend to a Beta ... i screwed up everything. i had to reformat her and lost a lot of options, applications and info from her. even some devices stopped working. i learned, next time i want a new 'modus operandi' (kind of operating system) better go with final and tested ones.  i heard there is a new Natty coming to town, so I'll wait.
[20:01] <rww> old tired joke :(
[20:01] <lcb> that one?
[20:02] <unityproblem> lol
[20:02] <lcb> if its old i never saw it...
[20:07] <unityproblem> goodbye room!
[20:07] <mekeor> illcomeback...
[20:09] <KM0201> lcb: its ok... :)
[20:09] <hardcold> can I get emoji system wide in Natty?
[20:10] <hardcold> This coming in 10.7 (Lion) but I imagine Ubuntu could do this in a day given the speed at which the community moves
[20:11] <hardcold> I'm sick of having to log into gmail's web client to see the emoji in my Japanese friends e-mail.
[20:11] <hardcold> iOS has system-wide emoji
[20:12] <hardcold> and so will Lion
[20:12] <hardcold> If not system wide, at least in Thunderbird
[20:12] <hardcold> for Ubuntu
[20:18] <hardcold> Okay, maybe Ubuntu DOES have system wide emoji now? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/amd64/ibus-table-emoji
[20:19] <zolw> there you go then :)
[20:24] <sam-_-> -7quit
[20:28] <dasdsadssffs> hi question
[20:29] <zolw> !ask | dasdsadssffs
[20:29] <dasdsadssffs> my question is is here somebody who can help me
[20:30] <yofel> we don't know that until we know your question
[20:30] <dasdsadssffs> ok well  i am not sure if i can use 11.04
[20:30] <zolw> dasdsadssffs: what makes you think that?
[20:31] <dasdsadssffs> all people say not using beta
[20:31] <guntbert> dasdsadssffs: if not sure: don't use it until it is released
[20:31] <dasdsadssffs> okay but its 5 days before release
[20:31] <dasdsadssffs> is it so unstable ?
[20:32] <dasdsadssffs> i have to say, i am not newbie
[20:32] <zolw> dasdsadssffs: works fine for me, depends on the system really
[20:32] <yofel> you *could* use a daily image build, those have fixes since beta included, there's still no guarantee that they'll work as they don't get tested much
[20:32] <dasdsadssffs> what is an alternative ?
[20:32] <yofel> if you upgrade you'll get the current snapshot anyway
[20:32] <dasdsadssffs> i dont want to upgreade in one week !
[20:33] <zolw> dasdsadssffs: Download the current one and then just let update manager do the rest for you when 11.04 comes out properly
[20:33] <dasdsadssffs> okay and when should i upgrade??
[20:34] <dasdsadssffs> as soon  as released or later ??
[20:34] <yofel> I meant upgrade from 10.10, which you can only officially do after release anyway
[20:34] <dasdsadssffs> yes okay
[20:34] <dasdsadssffs> but when?
[20:34] <dasdsadssffs> as soon as possible
[20:34] <dasdsadssffs> or waiting
[20:35] <dasdsadssffs> !enter | dasdsadssffs
[20:35] <hardcold> why do we get so many people asking when they should install 11.04?
[20:35] <yofel> if you don't need it *immediately* maybe wait 1 or 2 weeks, that's when post-release fixes get out
[20:35] <dasdsadssffs> ok thanks
[20:35] <dasdsadssffs> and the other thing is, anytime there comes gnome  3 / unity so cant use gnome ??
[20:35] <dasdsadssffs> so then i would change to kde
[20:35] <hardcold> it's the same for every OS release, it depends on your needs and your equipment.
[20:36] <yofel> unity is there by default if you have the drivers enabled, you can select old gnome as 'ubuntu classic' on login
[20:36] <dasdsadssffs> o
[20:36] <dasdsadssffs> ok
[20:36] <zolw> gnome3 is a bit more complicated though right?
[20:36] <dasdsadssffs> hardcold: because MANY say, after release there are many bugs tooo
[20:36] <yofel> !gnome3
[20:36] <yofel> my advise: don't try that unless you know what you're doing
[20:36] <dasdsadssffs> no i hate gnome 3
[20:37] <dasdsadssffs> never want it
[20:37] <hardcold> dasdsadssffs, EXACTLY that is why you wait and make the decision when you think it's ready. NO ONE here can tell you when it will meet YOUR needs
[20:37] <dasdsadssffs> yes okay i know
[20:37] <dasdsadssffs> it is a pity, that ubuntu only supports 18 months
[20:37] <yofel> it's coming if you want or not, but natty will be supported for 18months, and lucid for 24months from now if you want to keep using gnome2
[20:37] <dasdsadssffs> there should be again an lts with gnome classical
[20:38] <dasdsadssffs> natty is 3 years supported i thought
[20:38] <dasdsadssffs> ÄH lucid
[20:38] <yofel> why? ubuntu isn't going to support gnome2 if the gnome devs complete drop it, which will be soon
[20:38] <yofel> dasdsadssffs: of those 3 years one has passed already ;)
[20:38] <dasdsadssffs> yofel thats my problem
[20:38] <dasdsadssffs> anytime gnome 2 will not be longer supported
[20:39] <dasdsadssffs> right ?
[20:39] <dasdsadssffs> so there is no way not to use gnome 2
[20:39] <dasdsadssffs> *gnome 3
[20:39] <yofel> right, probably when lucid goes EOL we won't support gnome2 anymore, though that's still future talk
[20:39] <dasdsadssffs> SO THATS my problem
[20:39] <dasdsadssffs> so i thought change to kde
[20:39] <maco> lucid?
[20:39] <dasdsadssffs> ;)
[20:39] <maco> but natty has gnome 2 inclouded
[20:40] <maco> *included
[20:40] <maco> oh right. lts. duh.
[20:40] <yofel> there will surely be distros with gnome2 out there, and I'm personally a KDE user anyway, although Xfce is nice too
[20:40] <dasdsadssffs> maco: think on
[20:40]  * maco shuts up
[20:40] <yofel> same as the KDE3 distros that you can still find these days
[20:40] <dasdsadssffs> yofel: yes, but XFCE uehm, i tried... difficult, i think prefer kde+
[20:40] <dasdsadssffs> but i dont want change the distri
[20:41] <dasdsadssffs> i change the desktop
[20:41] <MichaelKohler> I've now upgraded to Natty beta, but I somehow lost the network-manger symbol. Is this by design or an upgrade failure?
[20:41] <dasdsadssffs> upgrade failure
[20:41] <dasdsadssffs> there must be onee
[20:41] <dasdsadssffs> yofel : do i need a new hard drive? it is 5400 rpms.
[20:42] <guntbert> dasdsadssffs: lets keep this channel to support please
[20:42] <yofel> dasdsadssffs: certainly not
[20:42] <dasdsadssffs> ok
[20:42] <MichaelKohler> dasdsadssffs, what can I do about that then?
[20:42] <dasdsadssffs> sudo apt-get install network-manager
[20:42] <dasdsadssffs> AH sorry
[20:42] <yofel> MichaelKohler: network-manager-gnome installed? (or maybe that's indicator-network these days, not sure)
[20:42] <dasdsadssffs> i know what you mean
[20:42] <dasdsadssffs> the icon misses ??
[20:43] <MichaelKohler> the icon misses yes
[20:43] <dasdsadssffs> OKay
[20:43] <dasdsadssffs> i can fix
[20:43] <MichaelKohler> network-manager is installed
[20:43] <dasdsadssffs> wait
[20:43] <dasdsadssffs> i can fix
[20:43] <andeeeuk> Hi
[20:43] <dasdsadssffs> sudo gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor  && gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel  && pkill gnome-panel
[20:43] <hardcold> hello andeeeuk
[20:43] <yofel> dasdsadssffs: unity doesn't use gnome-panel
[20:43] <MichaelKohler> dasdsadssffs, thanks, I'll try that
[20:43] <dasdsadssffs> no that works
[20:43] <dasdsadssffs> i tried also
[20:44] <dasdsadssffs> i am sure
[20:44] <andeeeuk> i was looking at unity 11.04 and its looking great at the moment
[20:44] <yofel> dasdsadssffs: how? you're killing gnome-panel which isn't even running?
[20:44] <guntbert> !enter | dasdsadssffs
[20:44] <dasdsadssffs> yes
[20:44] <andeeeuk> does the final release come out on 28th April?
[20:44] <dasdsadssffs> yes
[20:44] <yofel> dasdsadssffs: you tried that in 11.04, really?
[20:44] <dasdsadssffs> yes
[20:44] <dasdsadssffs> i had the same
[20:44]  * yofel shuts up then
[20:44] <andeeeuk> or is this a development release?
[20:45] <dasdsadssffs> andeeeuk: released on 28th
[20:45] <yofel> andeeeuk: so far yes, but release is on the 28th
[20:45] <yofel> !schedule | andeeeuk
[20:45] <drmorphis_droid> has anyone had trouble with the screen idling during boot instead of displaying progress? i have to move the mouse to reactivate the screen
[20:45] <dasdsadssffs> MichaelKohler does it work?
[20:45] <dasdsadssffs> because i forgot "sudo"
[20:45] <MichaelKohler> dasdsadssffs, no, but I should probably mention that I use "Ubuntu classic"
[20:46] <dasdsadssffs> sudo gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor && sudo gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel && sudo pkill gnome-panel
[20:46] <andeeeuk> good stuff thanks
[20:46] <dasdsadssffs> i foorgot sudo sorry
[20:46] <yofel> ah, then the gnome-panel killing might really work
[20:46] <hardcold> drmorphis_droid, I have something similar
[20:46] <dasdsadssffs> yes
[20:46] <andeeeuk> just wanted to make sure
[20:46] <MichaelKohler> dasdsadssffs, I'll try again
[20:46] <dasdsadssffs> okay and maybe restart the pc
[20:46] <andeeeuk> other site had said it was a development release
[20:46] <yofel> andeeeuk: and it is until the 28th
[20:46] <dasdsadssffs> andeeeuk:  haaaaaaaaaeee ????
[20:46] <dasdsadssffs> omfg
[20:47] <drmorphis_droid> cool just making sure it isnt just me...  minor bug i have stumbled into so far
[20:47] <andeeeuk> do you guys think it is going to be stable?
[20:47] <dasdsadssffs> -.-
[20:47] <MichaelKohler> dasdsadssffs, the panel looks now pretty standard, but still no network-manager icon
[20:47] <andeeeuk> yeah cool
[20:47] <dasdsadssffs> restart already ? @michaelkohler
[20:47] <hardcold> drmorphis_droid, grub used to have a purple background and go into a purple screen before the ubuntu icon popped up, but not it's black
[20:47] <yofel> andeeeuk: officially yes, on the 28th - but it depends how good your hardware was tested
[20:47] <MichaelKohler> dasdsadssffs, not yet, but can try that
[20:47] <dasdsadssffs> ok perfect
[20:48] <andeeeuk> yofel: I am using a laptop which worked out the box with 10.10
[20:48] <MichaelKohler> restarting now.. is there anything for "Ubuntu classic" that is like the unity thing when you click at the ubuntu logo?
[20:48] <hardcold> drmorphis_droid, it boots fine, it's just black until it hits the 4 ubuntu dots
[20:48] <dasdsadssffs> yes then leave it
[20:48] <yofel> andeeeuk: ubuntu+1 is always called the development release until it's released, in a month oneiric will be the development release
[20:48] <andeeeuk> so im hoping it will be the same with 11.04
[20:48] <drmorphis_droid> oh for me after grub my display goes into power save
[20:48] <andeeeuk> oh ok, didnt realise that
[20:48] <andeeeuk> thanks
[20:48] <hardcold> drmorphis_droid, but does it follow through with the boot cycle?
[20:49] <andeeeuk> how has everyone been getting on with unity so far?
[20:49] <drmorphis_droid> yes. it shows up around the time the login is ready.
[20:49] <drmorphis_droid> unity is pretty nice
[20:49] <MichaelKohler> dasdsadssffs, reboot helped, the icon is now there.t
[20:49] <MichaelKohler>  thanks a lot
[20:49] <dasdsadssffs> juhu @michaelkohler
[20:49] <dasdsadssffs> no problem
[20:50] <hardcold> drmorphis_droid, I've noticed different behaviors at startup and shutdown, they are obviously tweaking all this stuff now. I'm going to reboot my machine and compare. Back shortly.
[20:51] <dasdsadssffs> yohel:
[20:51] <dasdsadssffs> is 32 bit better than 64 bit ?
[20:52] <yofel> erm, hard to say, I'm using 64bit fine here, but if you don't have > 3G RAM you probably don't need it
[20:52] <yofel> better is subjective anway
[20:52] <dasdsadssffs> i have got 4 gb
[20:52] <dasdsadssffs> and other pc 2
[20:52] <hardcold> drmorphis_droid, well, wadda ya know? It's now back to purple all the way through
[20:53] <mongy> isnt it better at multicore stuff, or is that just nonsense I read somewhere.
[20:53] <hardcold> check for the latest updates and reboot after installing
[20:53] <drmorphis_droid> hmm. ill do that when i get back home thanks for looking into that
[20:53] <yofel> well, you can use 64 or 32 on both, 64 should work fine, I can't really say much about this though, both have worked fine for me since long ago
[20:54] <yofel> mongy: *shrug* - shouldn't make a difference, people say it's faster since it can use the larger address space, but then again, it needs more memory thanks to that
[20:55] <mongy> how much more?
[20:55] <psalden> anyone fancy some help with getting the opensource radeon driver to work? I think I installed all that's necessary, but xubuntu natty won't recognize it
[20:56] <nixwissen> hello i have a question about ubuntu
[20:56] <zolw> !ask | nixwissen
[20:56] <yofel> mongy: depends, all address pointers need twice the space (64bit 8 byte, 32bit 4 byte), but most other things are the same so the increase isn't that much in reality
[20:59] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> salute, i need help
[20:59] <MichaelKohler> using "Ubuntu classic".. isn't it possible to arrange windows in the window list anymore?
[20:59] <scb> Hello, is this the right place to ask about updating from maverick to natty or should I take this to #ubuntu?
[21:00] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> scb right here
[21:00] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> but scb:
[21:00] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> !natty
[21:00] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> i have a question too what should i use ?? 10.10 or 11.04 ??
[21:00] <scb> DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS: I am fully aware of that.
[21:00] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> ok
[21:00] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> scb do you want install it althought it beta ?
[21:01] <scb> DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS: it's going to be released next week. I would say it's a relatively solid beta.
[21:01] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> ok
[21:01] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> scb do you upgrade from beta 2 to final+
[21:01] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> or do you an re install+
[21:01] <jon4248> natty w
[21:02] <scb> DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS: if it is your first time using Ubuntu I would advice against it and suggest you either wait a week or install 10.10.
[21:02] <jon4248> natty works good for me
[21:02] <scb> DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS: I believe the move is transparent. Once you are on the natty repositories you won't notice you went from beta to final release.
[21:02] <yofel> !final | DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS
[21:02] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> ok
[21:02] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> i have a question too
[21:02] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> hat should i use ?? 10.10 or 11.04 ??
[21:02] <scb> DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS: 10.10.
[21:02] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> ok
[21:02] <jon4248> 11.04
[21:03] <yofel> your choice?
[21:03] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> ok
[21:03] <yofel> you don't *have* to upgrade, 10.10 will be supported for another 12 months
[21:03] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> i have no problem with upgrading
[21:03] <scb> EItherway, I am having issues upgrading from 10.10 to 11.04. Ah, damn I closed the window.
[21:03] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> but is it good, to wait one week after release ?
[21:04] <jon4248> meh
[21:04] <scb> What I wanted to ask is if I could skip the update-manager stuff and just change maverick for natty in my source lists, update and be done with it?
[21:04] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> yes scb
[21:04] <guntbert> scb: not recommended
[21:04] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> but is it good, to wait one week after release ?
[21:04] <hardcold> omg, it never ends
[21:04] <guntbert> DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS: don't give random advice please
[21:05] <yofel> scb: you can, make sure the 'ubuntu-desktop' or equivalent meta package isn't removed on upgrade though
[21:05] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> guntbert what
[21:05] <zolw> DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS: Up to you, down to personal needs
[21:05] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> zolw i need productive
[21:05] <yofel> scb: update-manager forcefully keeps that installed and failes the upgrade if it wants to remove it
[21:05] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> but is it good, to wait one week after release ?
[21:06] <MichaelKohler> DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS: why shouldn't it?
[21:06] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> what
[21:06] <hardcold> DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS, you should always wait 3-1/2 days after a new OS to install if it's a month with 30 days, 5 days if it comes out in a month with 31 day, 2 day if it February and leap year, and 22 days if it comes out on a full moon
[21:06] <mongy> wait 2 weeks, twice the fun!
[21:06] <zolw> DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS: but like I said, its down to you personally, only you can know. 11.04 works fine for most, but if your desperate for stability go for 10.10
[21:06] <yofel> doesn't really matter? sure, natty gets post-release bugfixes, but that will continue for several weeks, so the longer you wait the less bugs it will probably have
[21:06] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> so in fact uehm i can use natty now too
[21:07] <jon4248> yes
[21:07] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> ok
[21:07] <MichaelKohler> is there any change log for natty?
[21:07] <yofel> sure, we just don't make any guarantee that it's going to work until the 28th
[21:07] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> hello i have a question
[21:07] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> can somebody help me
[21:08] <yofel> MichaelKohler: there is a natty-changes mailing list with the package changes (and a RSS feed somewhere), and there are the release notes
[21:08] <hardcold> DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS, it's also required that you throw salt over your shoulder and turn around three times before any OS install, unless there is a solar eclipse, and then you should use sugar
[21:08] <zolw> !ask | DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS
[21:08] <yofel> DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS: just ask your question instead of constantly asking if we can help you
[21:08] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> my question is is  here somebodywhocan help me
[21:08] <Tm_T> zolw: don't feed
[21:08] <MichaelKohler> hardcold: I thought you should use pepper when there is a solar ;)
[21:09] <MichaelKohler> yofel: thanks
[21:09] <yofel> MichaelKohler: no, but make sure to offer enough sake to the PC
[21:09] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> sorry i ask my question noww
[21:09] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> should i use 10.10 or 11.04
[21:09]  * yofel resigns
[21:09] <hardcold> can we ban DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS already?
[21:10] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> ok i stop that
[21:10] <Tm_T> DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS: I kindly ask you to stop harrassing our channels, now
[21:10] <MichaelKohler> +1
[21:10] <yofel> DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS: really up to you, if you want to use it, use it, if not, don't
[21:10] <bjsnider> Tm_T, you didn't permanently ban him is the problem
[21:10] <mongy> right clicking a usb mounted partition in launcher gives options like eject and safe remove, but what about mounted hard disk partitions on same drive.. no such options.  will there ?
[21:10] <zolw> wasn't he banned earlier? i might be wrong...
[21:10] <Tm_T> bjsnider: I didn't ban him
[21:10] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> no i wasnt here before !!
[21:10] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> thats tru
[21:10] <DSSJJSDJDSJDDSAS> i will stop that
[21:11] <MichaelKohler> isn't it possible to arrange windows in the window list anymore?
[21:12] <scb> yofel: https://gist.github.com/935363 that's the list of packages it wants to remove, why would it be making it fail?
[21:12] <hardcold> what is the standard shutdown process, visually in Natty?
[21:13] <yofel> scb: no idea, that looks about right...
[21:13] <yofel> hardcold: I think there was a power button in the panel at the top right
[21:13] <yofel> haven't used unity much though
[21:13] <MichaelKohler> yofel's right
[21:13] <hardcold> yofel, no, I mean when you shut it down, what you see
[21:14] <scb> yofel: may it be that i am running a different kernel? (not generic)
[21:14] <yofel> hm, the splash should come up again during shutdown, that's what kubuntu does at least
[21:14] <MichaelKohler> scb: uname -a
[21:14] <yofel> scb: shouldn't matter, or server upgrades would fail too
[21:14] <scb> MichaelKohler: No, I *know* I am. I am running tuxonice kernel from a ppa.
[21:14] <hardcold> the shutdown process varies for me, but is usually a back screen with some white text, and a couple small boxes that pop up
[21:15] <MichaelKohler> oh, sorry, misunderstood you
[21:15] <yofel> scb: PPA might matter, as all PPAs are disabled on upgrade by update-manager
[21:15] <hardcold> I just wanted to know if this was the standard visual part of the beta or if it was machine specific
[21:15] <scb> yofel: do I have to uninstall all PPA installed software?
[21:16] <yofel> scb: usually not, but I know that at least xorg-edgers requires a use of ppa-purge before upgrade
[21:17] <yofel> upgrading by hand worked fine for me too though, so you shouldn't exactly need update-manager. Though it's not recommended of course
[21:17] <scb> I think I am running some xorg ppa.
[21:17] <scb> ubuntu-x-swat/x-updates
[21:17] <scb> may it be that?
[21:17] <yofel> I'm running that too, I would be surprised if that would make a difference
[21:18] <scb> yofel: Do I need to be on a fully updated machine before upgrading?
[21:18] <yofel> that is recommended yes
[21:19] <mongy> anyone running vbox 4 (from vbox repo) and getting 'failed to access usb subsystem' error when opening settings for a vm
[21:21] <scb> how do I purge all the packages installed from a ppa and return to the official repos?
[21:22] <yofel> use ppa-purge
[21:35] <vinsonizer> i upgraded to the beta of natty and my dhcp3-server no longer has init scripts
[21:35] <vinsonizer> has anyone else seen this?
[21:35] <vinsonizer> i cannot start dhcp (at least not the way i used to)
[21:35] <MichaelKohler> is there anything like the unity's search panel when clicking on the ubuntu logo for ubuntu classic?
[21:36] <gordonjcp> MichaelKohler: thankfully no
[21:37] <MichaelKohler> gordonjcp: that was the only thing from unity I thought was pretty cool
[21:37] <yofel> vinsonizer: that's a transitional package for isc-dhcp-server
[21:38] <gordonjcp> MichaelKohler: hm, I didn't like it because they used it for the alt-f2 thing
[21:39] <vinsonizer> yofel: what do i need to do
[21:39] <vinsonizer> it says "set to manually installed" for isc-dhcp-server
[21:40] <yofel> vinsonizer: it should've automatically installed the new package, which provides a /etc/init.d/isc-dhcp-server
[21:40] <vinsonizer> derp
[21:40] <vinsonizer> ok
[21:40] <vinsonizer> let me look
[21:40] <vinsonizer> ok... looking like something i can work with
[21:40] <vinsonizer> may be app armor, may be something else
[21:41] <MichaelKohler> gordonjcp: not additionally? so, okay, that's annoying
[21:41] <gordonjcp> MichaelKohler: well, it *seems* to be the same
[21:41] <gordonjcp> MichaelKohler: in Unity you can't hit alt-f2 and just type a command you want it to run then hit return
[21:42] <MichaelKohler> gordenjcp: so that's another reason to not unity then
[21:42] <MichaelKohler> how different are systems using unity and ubuntu classic in terms of support?
[21:42] <guntbert> !swap | MichaelKohler (you left #ubuntu before I sent you that)
[21:42] <MichaelKohler> and config files etc.?
[21:42] <gordonjcp> you have to type the command in v-e-e-e-r-y s-l-o-o-o-o-o-w-l-y so that its autocomplete has a chance to keep up, then wait a few seconds until it tries to guess what you want (and on this, it usually guesses right since you've typed the name of the program you want to run - but not always!) then you click on the icon to actually run it
[21:42] <gordonjcp> Unity is a total ballsup
[21:43] <MichaelKohler> thanks guntbert
[21:43] <gordonjcp> I really wish I wasn't stuck with Ubuntu
[21:43] <MichaelKohler> why are you?
[21:43] <gordonjcp> MichaelKohler: because I need to support some people who use software I write on Ubuntu
[21:44] <MichaelKohler> why specially for Ubuntu?
[21:45] <gordonjcp> I'm not sure what you mean
[21:45] <guntbert> MichaelKohler: lets keep this channel for support please
[21:45] <mongy> typing in the command works fast for me... pops up results in no time
[21:45] <MichaelKohler> sure, sorry, guntbert
[21:45] <gordonjcp> mongy: I don't want it to pop up results, though
[21:45] <gordonjcp> mongy: I *know* what I want it to do
[21:46] <gordonjcp> I don't want it to try and guess what I want
[21:46] <zolw> just press enter then does that not do it? it does for me
[21:46] <mongy> ^ yup
[21:47] <mongy> just did alt F2, typed ccsm and pressed enter.  no slowdowns or waiting
[21:47] <MichaelKohler> is there any way to switch between unity and classic without logging out?
[21:48] <guntbert> MichaelKohler: unlikely
[21:50] <Deithrian> Hello, can someone update Kaffeine package for Natty to 1.2.2?
[21:52] <yofel> Deithrian: far too late for that
[21:53] <yofel> Deithrian: you can request a backport once it gets into oneiric
[21:53] <Deithrian> yofel how come they have a package for maverick but not for natyy on launchpad o-o
[21:53] <yofel> where did you find that?
[21:54] <Deithrian> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=launchpad+kaffeine+1.2.2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
[21:55] <yofel> Deithrian: well, ask the owner of the PPA to upload a natty package?
[21:55] <Deithrian> yofel, i have no idea how things work there
[21:55] <Deithrian> yofel, also i don't know who that guy is with that build
[21:55] <yofel> well, I can ask if we can put that into the kubuntu PPAs, but it's too late for the natty archive
[21:56] <yofel> I can put a package into one of my PPAs though if you want
[21:56] <Deithrian> yofel, will it work for Xubuntu? I tried installing it but it installs in a weird way, the files for the software are maybe in different location or something
[21:57] <Deithrian> and i can't figure out where they are
[21:57] <Deithrian> so i can add custom transponders that are not included in Kaffeine for example Hellasat satellite is missing
[21:58] <yofel> no idea, I rarely use kaffeine myself
[21:58] <Deithrian> :/ when will linux people start watching satellite tv :( haha
[21:59] <yofel> well, I do have a dvb-s card in my desktop for astra, but as I said I rarely use that :P
[21:59] <Deithrian> yofel, if you put it in your PPA will it install on my Xubuntu? o-o
[21:59] <vinsonizer> how can i figure out if apparmor is blocking my dhcp server from starting?
[22:00] <Deithrian> yofel, what do you use then?!
[22:00] <yofel> erm, Xubuntu has nothing to do with that, it should install the same on L/X/K/Ubuntu
[22:00] <vinsonizer> i get Can't open /etc/bind/rndc.key: Permission denied
[22:00] <vinsonizer> b/c i am letting dhcp update bind
[22:01] <yofel> apparmor should put rejection messages into syslog I think
[22:01] <yofel> Deithrian: I rarely watch TV, and I've got a regular one too by now
[22:01] <vinsonizer> ah
[22:01] <Deithrian> yofel, well i would be very thankful if you can put it in your PPA then o-o and hopefully it will install the files in their normal locations, from that maverick build i don't know where it puts them, i also searched for them but couldn't find anything
[22:01] <vinsonizer> yofel: that's the ticket
[22:02] <yofel> Deithrian: dpkg -L kaffeine will list the files
[22:02] <Deithrian> :o
[22:02] <Deithrian> yofel, will your PPA build be different from that one for maverick?
[22:04] <Deithrian> yofel, i'm not sure but i think that maverick build is like build from the source, and i think that Kaffeine installs in a different way in Ubuntu from the repo
[22:04] <vinsonizer> yofel: thanks much, i got it worked out
[22:05] <yofel> Deithrian: well, maybe, I don't know how he packaged it, I'll just reuse the 1.1 package and make sure everything is installed
[22:05] <Deithrian> yofel, if it can install on Natty and i can find the scanfile.dvb i will be golden :)
[22:07] <aguitel> are the same hardware requeriment for maverick and natty ?
[22:07]  * scb thinks update-manager is going to fail again.
[22:08] <Deithrian> yofel, the strange thing with that Maverick build is that after i replaced the scanfile.dvb with my custom one my custom satellite transponders didn't show in the list, so i figure it uses scanfile.dvb from another place not in the Home folder
[22:08] <Deithrian> but couldn't find it :/
[22:09] <mongy> is dvb-s different from dvb-t in that you cant make a scanfile ?
[22:10] <mongy> I used dvb-apps and used one of the supplied templates to scan for channels for my dvb-t.
[22:11] <Deithrian> mongy, never used dvb-t but i guess the difference will be in the tuning info, instead of transponders i guess it's using frequencies for dvb-T or something o-o
[22:12] <scb> if I do an update from a CD how will it handle packages not in the cd?
[22:12] <mongy> download them?
[22:12] <aguitel> apport crash in my system
[22:12] <mongy> good question
[22:13] <scb> god dammit.
[22:13] <scb> Update Manager is not in the mood for me today.
[22:17] <Deithrian> yofel, are you making a x64 build? o-o
[22:17] <yofel> launchpad will build on x86 and x86_64
[22:17] <Deithrian> sweet :)
[22:29] <andycc> I just ran into an issue with X... apparently, the output gets "killed" after I resume from suspend sometimes. By killed, I mean the screen is black except for the cursor, which I can move, and which changes when I hover over a window border, for example.
[22:29] <SeRVeR01> hey there is Gnome 3 ready for 11.04 ?
[22:29] <yofel> !gnome3
[22:30] <SeRVeR01> thanks yofel  :)
[22:31] <yofel> Deithrian: you can find it here when it's built https://launchpad.net/~yofel/+archive/backports
[22:32] <Deithrian> yofel,  thank you!
[22:33] <andycc> Does anyone have the same issue as me? Is it a known one?
[22:35] <KM0201> yofel: are you using gnome3?
[22:36] <yofel> I have it installed, but gnome-shell crashes since a while ago when I try to log in, didn't debug it
[22:36] <KM0201> hmm
[22:36] <bajk-tragbar> oh man, natty is sooo great :)
[22:36] <yofel> for some reason they didn't add a -dbg package for gnome-shell and I don't want to rebuild that
[22:38] <KM0201> yofel: yeah.. i had a lot of issues w/ gnome-shell.. hoping when they properly implement gnome3 into ubuntu, it'll be much better (i tried the gnome3 live cd, and it was awesome.. based on suse)
[22:40] <yofel> gnome-shell did work from the PPA at some point for me, but I wasn't much impressed TBH. Those who like it will use it I guess
[22:41] <rww> fyi, popey wrote a blog entry about getting Unity running on virtualbox guests. Might be handy, since people have asked in here a few times now: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/21/ubuntu-natty-in-virtualbox-with-unity/
[22:42] <rww> erm, not popey, the other one. AlanBell!
[22:43] <yofel> unity runs fine in virtualbox here once you install virtualbox-ose-guest-x11, that's OSE ofc
[22:47] <KM0201> yofel: is there a way to install the 'closed source' edition?
[22:47] <AlanBell> yay
[22:47] <AlanBell> KM0201: you don't need it
[22:47] <KM0201> oh i see he is using the oracle edition
[22:47] <yofel> by adding the VB repos I think, or downloading from the website
[22:47] <yofel> but the OSE works fine for me
[22:47] <AlanBell> KM0201: it is the closed host, but OSE drivers in the guest
[22:48] <KM0201> ic
[22:51] <aguitel> is there anyway to install gnome 3 in natty ?
[22:51] <rww> !gnome3
[22:54] <torchie> i like how I can type "ccsm" in unity launcher and it gets what I mean
[22:55] <KM0201> torchie: you can also just type "comp" and it knows as well.. :)
[22:55] <yofel> ccsm would be command mapping, nice to have
[22:56] <KM0201> yea
[22:56] <torchie> oy what's with empathy window getting longer as you type
[22:57] <Rods_Tiger> is anyone else finding that minidlna has stopped doing its job since upgrading to 11.04? Now all I get from the WDTV Live is no media in the folder.
[23:00]  * step2 is not using empathy
[23:01]  * KM0201 doesn't either
[23:02] <KM0201> has anybody knows rain effects causing your machine to freeze completely, requiring a hard reboot?..
[23:02] <KM0201> *noticed.. not knows
[23:02] <step2> lemme check
[23:04] <KM0201> step2: more rain, faster it freezes
[23:04] <step2> KM0201, no, doesn't seem to freeze but everything turns grey and weird until you turn it off and flickers a bit
[23:04] <KM0201> step2: hmm, gpu on your pc?.
[23:05] <KM0201> step2: cuz it consistently froze on me (i done it like 5x in a row.. froze every time, requiring a hard reset)
[23:05] <step2> KM0201, still virtualbox on top of Ati Radeon somethin
[23:05] <KM0201> oh ok..
[23:06] <Deithrian> yofel, epic win :) updated and transponders are showing correctly ^__^ thank you thank you thank you thank you
[23:07] <yofel> :)
[23:08] <Deithrian> or not lol
[23:08] <step2> KM0201, oh, but dock and top panel seem to have crashed because of rain
[23:08] <KM0201> step2: hmm, mine completely froze.... (mouse, everything.. although once, i was still able to move my mouse)..
[23:10] <torchie> crap
[23:10] <torchie> my unity menubar just got corrupted
[23:11] <Deithrian> yep uses /usr/share/kde4/apps/kaffeine/scanfile.dvb instead of home/suername/.kde/ so on
[23:12] <step2> KM0201, this is what my rain looks like (before it was more grey, then got darker, maybe dep. on background)
[23:12] <step2> http://imagebin.org/149518
[23:12] <KM0201> step2: mine didn't get near that dark
[23:13] <torchie> is there a way to restart unity
[23:13] <step2> when i was still in ccsm it was more greyish ...
[23:14] <step2> KM0201, anyway, def. looks like sth. is not right
[23:14] <Deithrian> god damn it >-<
[23:14] <KM0201> step2: yea.. mine actually looked "fairly" normal... but it froze.. and it done it several times.. s.. go figure
[23:15] <step2> just don't enable rain for now?
[23:15] <KM0201> step2: lol, well duh..
[23:15] <KM0201> i just didn't even know how to go about finding the prob, and reporting it.
[23:16] <step2> KM0201, ^^ being really helpful I know ...
[23:16] <KM0201> :)
[23:21] <Deithrian> well at least it updated .-. now to find the file it uses sigh
[23:30] <hardcold> what's the natty bug report page?
[23:39] <Deithrian> Why when you update a program, and the program doesn't use some files anymore, they don't get deleted?
[23:42] <step2> Deithrian, compatibility or that it's not worth the effort to configure the package probably I'd say ... but then again I don't really get your problem with it
[23:43] <majnoon> they fix wubi yet ??
[23:43] <Deithrian> step2, well these unused files are taking space arn't they? Is it the same with Ubuntu updates? Does it leave all the old files there when it updates packages?
[23:45] <yofel> Deithrian: they are, unless it's a config file in /etc that you modified or the files are in your home folder, packages never touch user files
[23:45] <Deithrian> i see o-o
[23:46] <Deithrian> well that's a relief, thought i have 300+megs of old packages there
[23:46] <rww> majnoon: I was told Wubi is fixed on beta 2 ISOs, yes.
[23:46] <majnoon> kk
[23:47] <Deithrian> yofel, if dpkg -L kaffeine shows that no files are being used in my home folder is it safe to delete the files from the old Kaffeine installation?
[23:48] <MichaelKohler> I've played with ccsm on Natty and now I don't have any window title bars anymore. any idea?
[23:48] <yofel> Deithrian: sure, it's your choice what to do with your files, if you remove them kaffeine will start with the default settings again
[23:48] <step2> MichaelKohler, don#t disable windowDeco plugin?
[23:49] <step2> does alt+2 still work?
[23:49] <step2> (alt+F2)
[23:49] <MichaelKohler> no actually it doesn't
[23:49] <MichaelKohler> and I've set Alt+T to open a new terminal, doesn't work either
[23:50] <Deithrian> yofel, thanks
[23:50] <step2> ctrl-alt-back to reset X
[23:50] <damascene> Hi,
[23:50] <damascene> I can not get my mic to work
[23:50] <MichaelKohler> deco is back now
[23:51] <MichaelKohler> step2: doesn't seem to do anything
[23:51] <dabor> MichaelKohler, windows decoration enable
[23:51] <damascene> how to debug that and report it if necessary
[23:52] <yofel> step2: don't think that's enabled anymore, sysrq+k will work these days (alt+printf+k usually)
[23:52] <yofel> er, printscr
[23:53] <MichaelKohler> dabor: did that, title bar is now back.. but my shortcuts don't work (such as alt+f2, alt+t (new terminal))
[23:54] <torchie> oh god
[23:54] <torchie> i just ran compiz --replace and where is unit
[23:54] <torchie> oh nevermind
[23:54] <torchie> there it is
[23:55] <MichaelKohler> have reseted x (alt+printscreen+k) but shortcuts are still not working
[23:57] <majnoon> they used to have wubi as a seperate download :(