. another common mistake. yelp doesn't care about that one either [21:34] shaunm: sounds like your bzr log and pull are working from the local copy only; you can try binding your branch "bzr bind lp:~ubuntu-core-docs/gnome-user-docs/natty" [21:34] then bzr update [21:34] or specify "bzr merge lp:~ubuntu-core-docs/gnome-user-docs/natty" [21:35] So is gnome-user-docs being used for Unity documentation, and ubuntu-docs is being used for the classic gnome interface docs? [21:35] Rocket2DMn: correct [21:36] ok, i'm installing beta2 on an old testing laptop right now, not sure if i'm gonna be able to contribute to unity docs if it doesnt support running unity [21:36] i still run lucid on my desktop [21:36] I'm using a usb live installation [21:36] nice [21:36] my work laptop runs windows and I can't install Ubuntu on it at all [21:37] what about upstream gnome docs? I thought they werent using unity [21:37] doesnt that create merge headaches for us if we want to merge updates from upstream? [21:37] correct, but the amount of work done by upstream made it easier to take them and adapt them than to try and redraft ubuntu-docs [21:37] Rocket2DMn: ubuntu has a fork of the new gnome-user-docs that's been changed for unity [21:38] Rocket2DMn: yes, I doubt we will be able to merge updates from upstream in the future [21:38] perhaps select ones [21:38] but sadly Ubuntu has diverged too much from Gnome [21:38] ok, just making sure i'm not completely off base here [21:38] might be able to cherry-pick pages between each other, but large-scale merges aren't going to be feasible [21:38] exactly [21:39] depending on how organized their commits are upstream, even cherry picking could be a major headache [21:40] there may be some pages / subjects which are close together [21:40] mdke: gaah... the only way i can fix it for now is to mark it as a stub. we don't have enough chat help." [21:40] Ubuntu still uses many Gnome applications [21:40] j1mc|afk: ok [21:40] without yet looking at unity, i would expect that most documentation on actually using apps should be applicable, but anything for navigating the desktop UI will be useless [21:40] j1mc|afk: try to avoid touching any Makefile if you can [21:41] mdke: ok - i think we're ok to go w/o that change. [21:41] we will have to do it after release, i think. [21:42] Have we figured out what our docs on h.u.c. will contain? [21:44] j1mc|afk: fine, thanks [21:44] Rocket2DMn: shaunm has done some work on a build tool for the Mallard docs. We'll have to publish both sets to help.u.c [21:45] shouldn't be too bad [21:46] just need to harmonise the themes [21:46] cool, i think i saw the XSLT that was sent, along with a resulting web page [21:46] it looked nice [21:46] * mdke nods [21:51] man we have a lot of open bugs :( [21:52] probably mostly out of date [21:53] some are, a lot are also requests for new docs [21:53] i emailed with adam... he hasn't been able to work much on server docs this release. [21:53] he got married. [21:53] :) [21:53] lol, that's probably the best excuse there is [21:53] nice [21:54] good for him [21:54] he has done some work though this release, he's too modest [21:54] yeah ive seen some commits, he's done more than me... /shame [21:54] me too [21:54] I don't think we're actually diverging too far from gnome's docs [21:55] some of the delta is because we're not using gnome-control-center 3 yet [21:56] and we may want to have a section for gnome-shell stuff anyway as that will be installable in 11.10 [21:57] the difficulty is that merging text changes is generally pretty difficult with any level of divergence [21:57] we already have a diff of 164K after only a couple of weeks work [21:57] speaking of moving forward, are we going to continue to push new documentation into natty after its released since we got a late start? [21:57] yes :) [21:57] we have no translations right now so we have to [21:57] but we will also keep working [21:58] if we keep going at this pace we will have something awesome [21:58] mdke, did you disable the translations for ubuntu-docs? [21:58] no [21:58] are we going to stop all but bugfixes at a certain date so that the translators can actually translate a stable work for natty? [21:58] jbicha_: at some stage we will have to stop completely [21:58] ok, i thought i had seem emails about disabling some translations - did that happen at all for anything or am i confused? [21:59] Rocket2DMn: for gnome-user-docs [21:59] rgr [21:59] rgr? [21:59] hello [21:59] roger that [22:00] ok [22:00] hi coalwater [22:00] mdke: well a merge is possible, but I guess the question is whether someone will have the time to do it manually [22:00] a merge of what [22:00] i have a problem in creating my wiki page, i'm not sure if this the channel i should be asking for help in [22:00] jbicha_: I think cherry-picking specific files is an option [22:00] coalwater: go ahead [22:01] j1mc|afk: gnome-docs 3.2 for instance [22:01] j1mc|afk: gnome-user-docs now uploaded; we'll see if it gets through [22:01] whenever i try to save the page it gives me this error [22:01] Page could not get locked. Missing 'current' file? [22:01] sounds tricky. What's the page? [22:02] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Coalwater [22:02] i looked around and i found this http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinQuestions#MoinMoinQuestions.2BAC8-Errors.Error_when_saving_page_.22Page_could_not_get_locked._Missing_.27current.27_file.3F.22 [22:04] the page was doing fine, but when i tried to edit a 4th revision it did that [22:04] and now it seems to have been deleted completely [22:05] can someone enlighten me on how to actually build the gnome docs? [22:06] Rocket2DMn: you want to build a deb package? [22:06] i did an apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade a little while ago, and ubuntu-docs was the *only* package updated. [22:06] :) [22:06] well, whatever has to be done in order to fully test changes i suppose [22:07] Rocket2DMn: it's normally enough just to view the pages in yelp [22:07] ok, and there are a lot of them at that :) [22:07] yes [22:08] coalwater: I don't know the answer to this, it seems to be a difficult one. I recommend you save your previous material (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Coalwater?action=raw&rev=3) and start a new page with it at a different address (say CoalWater maybe) [22:08] Rocket2DMn: cd gnome-docs/C and then yelp . [22:08] no need to compile anything [22:09] ok i could do that as a temp solution but is there anyone i could contact? [22:10] jbicha_, do i need the version of yelp in natty? It's not letting me run it here on lucid [22:10] coalwater: yes, the admins of the wiki are the Canonical Sysadmins [22:10] Rocket2DMn: yes, you would [22:10] coalwater: they use a request tracker here: https://rt.ubuntu.com/ (uname/pword ubuntu/ubuntu) [22:10] coalwater: but you can often wait weeks/months for a request to be actioned [22:11] lol that sounds optimistic [22:11] coalwater: you can join #canonical-sysadmin to see if you can chat with someone about it [22:11] maybe their response time has improved recently, I haven't tried for a while [22:11] j1mc|afk: yelp 2.30 doesn't work with the docs? [22:11] ok, thanks mdke === j1mc|afk is now known as j1mc [22:12] Rocket2DMn: I suspect you need yelp 3 [22:12] jbicha_: that's right. at least 2.9x. [22:13] yeah looks like natty is the only thing with 3, no 2.9 anywhere in the default repos [22:13] coalwater: sorry I couldn't help more [22:13] well it seems that the old laptop cant handle unity (not surprised, the laptop is 7 years old) [22:13] right, gnome-user-docs version 8 has been accepted and will be in natty :) [22:13] :) [22:14] sweet [22:14] thanks, mdke [22:14] thanks, ubuntu-release-team whereever you are [22:14] thanks to you [22:14] :) [22:14] ScottK was the guy who pushed it through for us [22:14] Rocket2DMn: if you click the triangle next to the Natty version, there is a link for you to download the package you need [22:15] i feel like we did a lot to get things ready, but there's still so much more to do. [22:15] you did a lot [22:15] it looks great [22:16] coalwater: I should say it's probably an unlikely moment to get hold of a sysadmin, Easter holidays in most places [22:16] we will get to it, i suppose [22:16] jbicha_, where are you looking? I just ran rmadison to see what verisons there were [22:16] Rocket2DMn: perhaps you could try the non-unity version of natty [22:16] Rocket2DMn: oh I assumed, you were looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yelp [22:16] i'm going to step away for a bit. take a break. thanks for your help, all. [22:16] I'm off to bed [22:17] ciao [22:17] ciao [22:17] jbicha_, ah i see === j1mc is now known as j1mc|afk [22:17] mdke, i got natty installed on the laptop, it just cant run unity is all [22:18] but I don't know if you might have dependency trouble for yelp 3 [22:18] given that i need yelp3 to edit the gnome-user-docs, i guess i'll just have ot upgrade my version on my lucid desktop since this is where i do the actual work [22:18] hey, do you guys knows what version of yelp will be on the cd? [22:18] did 3.0.1 get picked up? [22:19] the interface doesnt seem to have really changes since maverick though [22:20] not sure shaunm , i see 3.0.0 on LP marked as pre-release freeze [22:20] yelp 2.30 should be able to display the help. some of the fancy stuff won't work, but it should just fall back to basic link lists [22:22] Yelp 3 does look different than 2.30 [22:22] Yelp is not a help editor [22:22] shaunm, im running 2.30 on lucid and its not letting me open the .page files in the gnome-user-docs bzr checkout [22:22] "The requested URI "/home/connor/ubuntu_bzr/gnome-user-docs/natty/gnome-help/C/index.page" is invalid" [22:23] i did a right click -> open with [22:23] Rocket2DMn: you can pass 2.30 a page file directly. you have to do yelp $(pwd)/#pageid [22:23] replace pageid with whatever is in the id attribute [22:24] yelp `pwd`/index.page [22:24] got the same error [22:25] yelp `pwd`/#index [22:25] ooo [22:25] works with the # [22:25] that's interesting [22:26] lol [22:26] mdke, the index.page has an extra XML close comment [22:27] --> [22:27] shaunm: it looks like 3.0.0-0ubuntu2 [22:27] j1mc|afk: that is unfortunate [22:27] mdke, its resulting in a --> showing up near the top of the document in yelp [22:27] I made the 3.0.1 before what I was told was the deadline for ubuntu to pick it up [22:28] Rocket2DMn: i don't see it in my current checkout [22:29] anyway, we still have a lot to fix. [22:30] shaunm: did you feel like this when the gnome3 docs were shipped? like you did a lot, but still so much more to do? [22:30] :/ [22:30] j1mc|afk, im at rev 1484 [22:30] it says i'm up to date [22:30] Rocket2DMn: ok [22:30] j1mc|afk: that is exactly how I felt [22:30] there's *still* tons to do [22:31] half of our networking docs are actually wrong [22:31] (because the whole networking stack landed like a week before release, during code freeze, which is absolutely batshit insane, and I'm still pretty upset about it) [22:32] yeah, that was a crazy time to land that stuff [22:32] which is why we're going to have to merge in the 3.2 docs [22:32] jbicha_: no, they use a different network-manager app in gnome3 [22:32] the networking stuff might be right in what you're shipping [22:33] Rocket2DMn: I think what you're seeing is because you're using the older yelp [22:33] shaunm: oh ok [22:33] the pages that are wrong in gnome were mostly written by people like phil, sitting in front of an ubuntu computer, assuming the rug wouldn't be pulled out from under them [22:33] jbicha_, could be hidden in a newer yelp, it's still invalid xml though [22:34] we have network-manager .8.4, and gnome has .9x [22:34] big differences with version .9 [22:34] Rocket2DMn: oh, yes you're right [22:34] Rocket2DMn is right. there's a stray comment closer in the links element. it happens not to affect yelp 3, which supports the links element [22:35] but any mallard processor that doesn't support the links element (yelp 2) is probably going to show it as text [22:35] i'm surprised it even displays the document [22:35] Rocket2DMn: can you do ctrl-l on the page you're viewing [22:35] it will tell you the page id [22:36] outside of a comment, "-->" doesn't mean anything, really. an xml parser just treats it as text [22:36] it's index.page [22:36] yeah its #index [22:36] oh, i see it... res/unity-dash-intro.png"/>--> [22:37] shaunm, that depends on your XML parser, having a stray > or < anywhere will cause a strict parser to fail validation [22:37] Rocket2DMn: my bad [22:37] it would need to be escaped to be valid text, like < or > [22:38] j1mc|afk, does it show the stray string in yelp3 at all? [22:38] no [22:38] sweet, then no harm no foul i guess [22:39] there really should not be well-formedness differences between parsers. not saying there aren't, but there shouldn't be [22:39] yeah, and i doubt people are going to be viewing the natty help in yelp if they aren't running natty [22:39] sorry... s/natty/11.04 :) [22:39] shaunm: ^^ [22:39] :) [22:40] * shaunm looks at the xml spec [22:40] shaunm, IMHO, stray open and close brackets = invalid XML = fail parsing [22:41] but since yelp is forgiving, we got off easy :) [22:42] do you have a tool to check our XML syntax? [22:42] http://www.w3.org/TR/xml/#syntax [22:42] section 2.4. > does not have to be escaped, except when in the string "]]>" [22:42] using yelp is a pain when I have to figure out which tag I forgot to close [22:43] jbicha_: xmllint [22:43] jbicha_, a lot of IDEs have XML validation capabilities [22:46] shaunm, ? [22:46] shaunm, i see "The right angle bracket (>) may be represented using the string " > ", and MUST, for compatibility, be escaped using either " > " or "... [22:46] it MAY be represented as > [22:47] it only MUST be when part of "]]>" inside a CDATA [22:47] ah, i see, that wording is a bit confusing [22:48] most spec wording is [22:55] shaunm: when i have that extra --> in emacs, nxml-mode doesn't show it as invalid. [22:55] i guess i should use xmllint or jing to validate the docs to be sure. [23:05] j1mc|afk: I fixed all the validity errors. how do I make a patch and give it to you? [23:05] shaunm: bzr diff > patches-for-the-ubuntu.txt [23:06] oh, how old-school [23:06] it works! :) [23:06] if you were all launchpad-y, i would have you do a merge proposal on launchpad, but . . . a diff is fine. [23:07] just email that to the docs list [23:07] oops [23:07] I already emailed it to you [23:07] or to . . . me or something [23:07] ok [23:07] sorry, I'm trigger-happy [23:07] me is fine. i know someone on the docs team who can commit it. [23:07] he is a good friend [23:08] and very handsome [23:08] yeah? [23:08] ok... i'm gonna go try this 'chilling out' thing again [23:08] i will rap at you all later [23:08] you mean John? [23:08] John. yes, him. :)