[00:00] Belial`, 'desktop'? [00:00] and I sent the odt to someone and they had trouble figuring out how to open it in word unlike on the library computers where the default file association is word [00:00] perscitus, there' [00:00] hmm or was the file extension dof [00:00] odf* [00:00] torchie: I've never tried opening an od[tf] in word [00:00] perscitus, there's a setting in dconf-editor that lets you change it from "automatic", "desktop", and "netbook." [00:01] hmm abiword launches fast [00:01] perscitus, well... having that menu would avoid much of what you are complaining ;) [00:01] penguin42: it actually doesn't work too badly [00:01] better than the LO-docx went that's for sure [00:01] but still, any formatting issue in transition from LO to another suite is mostly unacceptable [00:02] Hi [00:02] torchie: Problem is it requires both ends to actually agree and that almost never happens [00:02] then SUFFFEEEEER [00:02] ubuntu needs to get the trifecta on lock [00:03] * penguin42 can only hope that the LO get closer than the OOO guys - but it really is a hard problem to solve [00:03] office, netflix, itunes [00:03] lcb, menu should be in unity [00:03] Belial`, cant find it [00:03] torchie: oh what's going on here? I just joined [00:03] perscitus, you have to install dconf-tools and then run dconf-editor [00:03] oh we we were just quarrelling over interface design [00:04] and now office suites heh [00:04] perscitus, i agree, i believe the apps in there should be like gnome's [00:04] Unity is well okish I guess, but Ubuntu should have gone with Gnome Shell by default really :) [00:04] id like to try gnome shell [00:04] if unity was stable I think I'd prefer that becausewhat gs have done to workspaces [00:05] Gnome3 should be option in 11.10 [00:05] to install [00:05] torchie: you can try a Live CD from http://gnome3.org personally I haven't had much luck with those, you can also install the Gnome 3 ppa into Ubuntu 11.04, which I tried to do, but uhmm well did slightly wrong, so instead got a cross between Gnome 2 and Gnome 3, which I am quite annoying at the moment actsaulley. and I know where I went wrong as well [00:06] !!!!! [00:06] anyone else getting gnome-shell crashes after installing the PPA? I don't actually need it so not urgent, just wondering [00:06] abiword supports times new roman! [00:06] but [00:06] the [00:06] perscitus, you are far ahead :o [00:06] hanging indents [00:06] are so odd [00:06] I dunno about this [00:07] perscitus, i'm still with 11.04 [00:07] :p [00:07] lcb, They are killing classic for 11.10, I would rather prefer to use gnome3 [00:07] since most of FOSS will use it. [00:07] 11.04 [00:08] 10-10 -> 11.04 [00:08] 2010, april [00:08] oy [00:08] 2011, i mean [00:08] torchie: oh another option to try Gnome Shell would be that latest Fedora test day ISO [00:08] Belial`, Where is it [00:08] maybe I should bite the bullet and virtualize an entire windows machine to run word [00:09] perscitus, i think it's under desktop and then unity [00:09] then look to the right once you click on unity [00:09] torchie: I'e used crossover office before for word [00:09] perscitus: Unity vs well loads of other distros with Gnome Shell by default, with some eventauly Unity as an option in repo's, oh things are going to get interesting I guess :D [00:09] perscitus, no need to look for it, comes by default ' dconf-editor ' [00:10] lcb: no, it's not installed by default [00:10] yofel, i'm running 1st time last beta w/ updates, and it is :o [00:10] just installed [00:10] sebsebseb, Its what I hate about FOSS. Too many different projects and no one can agree to work together [00:10] lcb: it's in universe, so it can't be installed by default [00:10] sebsebseb, The world too. [00:11] if it is that's a bug [00:11] perscitus: Yeah Newer is not alwasy better, depensd on user and hardware [00:11] yofel, i installed beta2 then update/grades without touching sources.list then [00:11] sebsebseb, I would kill all WMs and make one unified WM [00:11] lcb: well, it wasn't installed here, so maybe you installed something that recommended it? [00:12] yofel, no, as i said, is a fresh install. i only installed chromium and xchat [00:12] perscitus: in fact ok some issues so far when it came to me trying to try out the latest Gnome Shell's in various ways, but uhmm, I really like a old version of Gnome Shell still :) that's about a year old or so now. from what I seen of latest on sites, I am a bit hmm, doesn't seem to offer me any proper later interface features really, but well Gnome 3.2 should be much better so :) [00:12] lcb: odd then [00:12] perscitus: also I still quite like Gnome 2 :) [00:12] perscitus: google already did it [00:13] sebsebseb, Gnome 3.6 will really kickbutt [00:13] torchie, no they didnt [00:13] sure they did! [00:13] perscitus: yeah 3.6 will proabably quite impressive, or uhmm hopefuly anwyay [00:13] sebsebseb, was gnome 3.6 to subtle for you? [00:13] does android use kde? gnome? xfce? [00:13] lol [00:14] it uses fluxbox [00:14] torchie: none of them, it uses it's own stuff [00:14] exactly [00:14] KM0201: your joking? [00:14] and now it's the most successful linux distribution [00:14] sebsebseb: of course i am.. :) [00:14] torchie: depends on how you look at success, in some ways it is, in others it really isn't [00:14] * KM0201 wonders though... whats wrong with Fluxbox [00:14] yofel, i decided to do it again, on this particular machine, because i'm having problems with 2 monitors, 1 on top of each other. still.. doesn't work as it should. and a lot of crashes while dragging windows. (with this monitors congiguration) [00:14] torchie: i think they use propietary shell [00:15] torchie: if you are talking about market share then sure I guess it's got the most, if your talking about a distro with quite a lot of users who have some sort of idea what freesoftware/opensource is about, then well Android is quite the feailure I guess, since most users are just consumers of the product, and will use it like a toaster or a micorwave [00:15] every unix and unix like that's had or gotten close to moderate market success in consumer computing used a proprietary shell [00:16] well yeah, from a standpoint of what freedom in software actually means, android is quite the travesty [00:17] * penguin42 hasn't tried but I'm curious about WebOS [00:17] Belial`, whats thet 'desktop' supposed to do? [00:17] the* [00:17] it makes it so it doesn't use fullscreen [00:17] torchie: Unity is going to get pretty popular I guess, even though there are a few uhmm well technical issues really, and you know what I am reffering to or you don't, but from a user perspective well sure it's kind of interesting, and it's another choice [00:17] webos is beautiful [00:18] Belial`, uh, it still uses 3/4 of the screen [00:18] that's weird. it uses less for me. [00:18] a lot less than that. [00:18] * socomm dislikes unity [00:18] especially in 2.1.0 where they added hardware acceleration to the launcher [00:18] iphone smoooooth [00:18] torchie: however in some ways Canonical are starting to do certain things mroe like propritary software companies, but well there goal is big market share, so I guess they have to in certain ways really, Unity is another example of this though in my opinion [00:19] yeah I imagine canonical moving to more and more things developed in-house [00:19] I sort of cross my fingers for a day where there's a Canonical Computer and they go up against the fruit company in large scale vertically integrated machines [00:19] and not just [00:19] system76 [00:20] Belial`, in your search, ever find anything that doesnt move titlebar to panel? [00:22] kahrytan, you mean when maximized or all the time? [00:24] maximized [00:24] i haven't really checked into that. [00:24] i kind of like that feature. [00:24] i dont [00:24] but i don't maximize often. [00:24] i killed appmenu already [00:24] Anyone on xubuntu care to test the patch in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+bug/711571 ? (If you are seeing the bug of course.) [00:24] Ubuntu bug 711571 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu Natty) "Xfce Shutdown/Restart doesn't work (logout instead)" [Low,Triaged] [00:24] Mostly because it only works in mouseover [00:24] poor appmenu [00:25] killer [00:25] kahrytan, appmenu is kind of confusing for new users. they should have it there all the time if they're going to use it instead of having to mouse over the panel. [00:25] If appmenu was on all the time, i wouldnt have uninstalled [00:25] i'm back on elementary right now which is based on 10.10 [00:26] and it runs so much faster than 11.04 [00:26] I feel its redundant to have panel and titlebar so what App/Window you are using [00:26] but then again, it's pretty stripped down [00:26] Is Elementary going to use gnome3? [00:26] or unity? [00:28] kahrytan: I think ElementaryOS will be Gnome 2 for quite a while yet [00:29] A year ago, we hit 2000 on release day. [00:29] * IanWizard wonders what we'll get this year. [00:30] Why do people worry about vertical space? Are they scared of scrolling? [00:30] my guess is about the same, but there will be horrible flamewars and bannings galore :/ [00:31] kahrytan, oh yes, quite. like spiders, and the DARK! [00:31] I dont care about vertical space [00:31] i want my horizontal space. its harder to scroll sideways [00:33] i bet no one uses Window shade in gnome [00:35] * KM0201 doesn't know what window shade is.. :) [00:35] Who wants to take bets, how long til we see Ubuntu 11.04 with Gnome3? [00:36] i'll take a bet that it won't happen. [00:36] KM0201, It shades window into titlebar.All you get is the titlebar in the end. [00:36] 11.04 is frozen [00:36] that'd be silly [00:36] kahrytan: well, you can install gnome-shell.. but gnome3 isn't gonna be implemented in 11.04, it will be in 11.10 [00:36] 11.04 is coming out in like 3 seconds [00:36] torchie: lol, 3 seconds? [00:37] like [00:37] 3 seconds [00:37] KM0201, I didnt hear anyone say Gnome3 will be optional in 11.10 [00:37] * kahrytan has headach trying to fix unity visual features. [00:38] kahrytan: yes, it will.. its been mentinoed here numerous times... and i don't think its gonna be optional, it'll be the default GUI. [00:40] KM0201, Unity is default [00:40] kahrytan: in 11.04 [00:40] you seem to have an issue differentiating between 11.04 and 11.10 [00:40] KM0201, they aint gonna drop unity default [00:40] ok. [00:41] clicking ubuntu logo in 11.04 is pointless [00:42] http://askubuntu.com/questions/25789/is-there-a-way-to-remove-maximized-window-controls-title-from-top-panel-in-unity [00:43] looks like im not alone in this quest [00:45] KM0201, There is 13k results for Unity sucks in google for the past month [00:45] * KM0201 sighs... [00:45] and its gonna climb in May [00:45] kahrytan: when kde3 first came out, there were probably about the same number of "KDE3 sucks" hits.. [00:45] grr i hate change [00:46] how dare people do new things [00:46] KM0201, Thats mostly cuz it was slow. [00:46] i mad [00:46] iMad [00:46] KM0201: Well I doubt it, when KDE4 came out there was - and it did! But a few years later here I am switching to it from Gnome! [00:46] kahrytan: my point is, its going to take time to work out the bugs.. saying it sucks right now, and will suck in the future, is just silly [00:46] penguin42: i meant kde4.. typo [00:46] KM0201, its not about the bugs. [00:46] KM0201: It's taken many years to fix though - and it's still not as nice to use [00:47] penguin42, I hate amarok [00:48] By 11.10, Unity can not be customized the way I WANT IT then screw Unity. [00:48] that includes moving dock [00:49] How to not nerdrage on Linux: 1) Use things you like. 2) Don't use things you don't like. 3) ??? 4) less hate! [00:49] rww: heh, except sometimes people try out things they know they won't particualrly like, me for example [00:50] sebsebseb: That's fine. Getting all worked up about it isn't really :\ [00:50] I try things, I try to customize it, and if i still dont like it as is, I say screw it. [00:50] kahrytan: oh the link you gave not gone on, but read the url, anyway in reply to that, or how about this one :D is there a way to move the buttons to the right in Unity? [00:51] oh and have in the minimise maximise and close order of course :) [00:51] and seriously I think I would look Unity a bit more if I could do the above ^ [00:52] like not look, above, stupid typo [00:52] sebsebseb, its not moving buttons [00:52] kahrytan: I know [00:53] sebsebseb, buttons can be moved. just like 10.10 [00:53] ok how is that done then? [00:54] in gconf [00:54] uhmm that's for Gnome 2 panel though, I don't think that works with Unity? [00:54] its metacity. [00:55] ok well worth a try, when I bother to re install, with the final. As mentioned here earlier, I installed the GNome 3 ppa wrongly and I know where I went wrong, so currently got a cross between Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 and well quite annoying it [00:56] sebsebseb: I think when I did it I went through and listed the gnome packages I had and tried to make sure I installed as many of the 3.x ones as I could [00:56] penguin42: I looked for offical instructions, didn't really have any luck [00:56] sebsebseb: You found some instructions? [00:56] penguin42: so went with what a site said, well what a comment said, and apprnatly me running the dist-upgrade command messed things up in my case, according to a guy, and I was thinking at the time, surely I don't need to dist-upgrade, but still did so [00:56] sebsebseb, It's metacity gconf option. [00:57] penguin42: it was my fourth re install of Beta 2, and so it was doing the system updates, and Gnome 3 all at the same time, using dist-upgrade command, and yeah things didn't really go as they should have [00:58] penguin42: apparnatly if I had gone with the normal update command, I would have probably been ok [00:58] What instructions? [00:59] my only issue with gnome3 is the theme [01:00] penguin42: kahrytan http://www.unixmen.com/linux-tutorials/linux-distributions/linux-distributions4-ubuntu/1625-how-to-install-gnome3-in-ubuntu-1104-natty-via-ppa [01:00] http://www.unixmen.com/linux-tutorials/linux-distributions/linux-distributions4-ubuntu/1625-how-to-install-gnome3-in-ubuntu-1104-natty-via-ppa [01:00] so anyway yeah as I already knew, when it came to commands, don't trust sort of random sites 100% :D [01:01] or I should say unoffical sites don't just trust them 100%, but following the insturcutions on omgubuntu for the Unity 2D ppa for example, worked out really well for me [01:01] sebsebseb, probably easier on 10.10 [01:02] penguin42: Anyway I assume, installing the Gnome 3 ppa and well having it working properly, means it replaces Gnome 2? [01:02] yeah. Cuz you change the gnome-session [01:03] also on that site it says to run a command for gnome-session which I tried to do, but woudn't work [01:03] sebsebseb, You can purge a ppa [01:04] kahrytan: yeah I know I can remove the ppa, but [01:04] http://askubuntu.com/questions/22946/how-do-i-install-the-latest-version-of-gnome-3 [01:05] I think i'll just wait untill the 30th or whenever I bother to do the final, because I am liking this cross between Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 that I am currently running anyway really at the moment, and the plan was to clean install with the final later on anyway [01:07] sebsebseb, when i tried gnome3 last time, i wasnt in Unity [01:07] I even had the fall back mode the proper one working once I think after the ppa, but in that case something happended. and I know Unity is broke from the GDM log in screen, but probably still works really, and that a fix is apparantly coming for this. [01:08] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1603874 [01:12] kahrytan: ok thanks for the forum link not that useful though. Also the jhbuild originally I was going to do that in another distro, but then gave up on the idea, after well trying to get that working, but I also knew at the time that I was doing something wrong, and then uh. [01:13] kahrytan: probably easier to do in Ubuntu though, but I guess most people doing Gnome Shell in 11.04 go with the ppa [01:14] yeah [01:15] hello! is anyone here having duplicates entries in synaptic sources? [01:15] kahrytan: as for askubuntu well that didn't come to mind, to look on the new help site, so thanks for the link :) [01:17] sebsebseb, did you try f15 first? [01:20] is there a countdown anywhere to the final release? [01:20] yes [01:20] kahrytan: well first ever Gnome Shell's I had running was back in 2010, with Mandriva 2010.1 and then was a little update, still got that old Gnome Shell on another computer in Mandriva 2010.2 :). then later on some sort of Fedora rawhide CD from Januarey worked fine from the CD with my computer, but then well versions after that I have had issues trying to get running, on this computer and the other. [01:20] !schedule [01:20] A schedule of Natty Narwhal (11.04) release milestones can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule [01:20] bazhang, he said countdown [01:21] 4/28 [01:21] 5 days [01:21] SudoKing, http://www.ubuntu.com/community/countdown [01:22] sebsebseb, you use kde? [01:22] kahrytan: so distro doesn't really matter that much to me right now for GNome 3, I just want to give it a try :) latest version. so yeah hopefuly the Ubuntu 11.04 PPA when I try to do that again, will work out :) [01:23] sebsebseb, try fedora 15 live with gnome3. on gnome site [01:24] kahrytan: already tried those, no luck, both the OpenSuse and Fedora based. I know there is of course the Fedora 15 beta now though, and a test day ISO, which might work hmm. oh and if you want to general chat, such as asking me if I use KDE, well ok sure, that's one thing pm can be used for. I mean it would be off topic in here really. [01:26] can anyone help my desktop im using ubuntu 11.04 here is the screenshot ofmy desktop http://tinypic.com/r/263kcqq/7 [01:27] rjian: Looks like a graphics driver problem to me [01:27] rjian: ok what's wrong? you got the Gnome 2 fallback instead of Unity, by the looks of it [01:28] how to fix it guys? [01:28] sebsebseb: The stuff down the left side looks like graphics corruption to me [01:28] penguin42: oh yeah ok I didn't see the screenshot properly [01:29] rjian: yeah looks like a graphids card/driver issue [01:29] what card you got? [01:30] sebsebseb, i dont know how to look here in ubuntu.. actually ive just install the compiz the config it then that error came out and i dont know how to fix it.. :( [01:34] sebsebseb, its 00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation N10 Family Integrated Graphics Con [01:34] troller [01:35] hello [01:36] I am having a problem with trying to install 11.04 beta 2 [01:36] I have an ATI video card and when I boot the live cd (usb stick) I get a blank screen [01:36] penguin42: do Intel cards even need a driver for Unity? as far as I know they don't for Gnome Shell :) [01:36] Is there someone who can help me with a rootstock error? It tells me, that there is no space left - which just can't be... log: http://pastebin.com/JkbA5U31 [01:36] if I try to use the "nomodeset" option it drops to a shell [01:37] They should change xchat to join #ubuntu+1 on alpha/beta releases and not #ubuntu [01:37] I looked at x.org.0.log and it seems to try every ati driver and each one says there are screens but no usable configuration [01:37] sebsebseb: Most intel drivers just work with Unity (sans bugs of which there are a few) - although I think Unity doesn't want to bother with some of the lower spec cards [01:38] rjian: I think Unity should pretty much just work for you, but uhmmm the GNome Shell interface for Gnome 3 probably does for example. Unity and Gnome Shell being similar in certain ways, and quite differnet in other ways. [01:39] sebsebseb, can i reset it back? because if i use it to Ubuntu the i dont have the gnome panel.. [01:39] penguin42: are we meant to be recommending ppa's in this channel at the moment for 11.04, Gnome 3 and Unity 2D I mean, uh well I guess maybe so [01:40] sebsebseb: Not sure, certainly if someone asks for it I don't see any harm in telling them where it is with a big scary warning that it'll break stuff [01:40] rjian: if you install from the Gnome 2 ppa, you can't just log into Unity 3D or Unity 2D (if you get that from the ppa) from the log in screen, but I think they may still be there and working. I think this issue is going to be fixed for the 11.04 final [01:41] rjian: Gnome 3 not Gnome 2 ppa above [01:41] so i will wait for the final before i can fix it? [01:42] rjian: you could try the Unity 2D ppa, it has worked well for me, it's not offically supported at the moment though, but uhmm I got a very similar experience to Unity 3D. only thing is with the dock down the left, I coudn't auto hide it like the 3D version for example, but if you want to get an idea for how Unity is like, then this is one way to do so :) [01:43] sebsebseb, ok wait.. ill try to restart my unit.. [01:44] rjian: as for Gnome 3 and it's new interface, totally worth trying out, and the nice safe way to try without effecting your system, would be form a Live CD of course. there's a OpenSuse based one that should work quite well with your Intel card, and a Fedora based for example http://gnome3.org [01:44] anyone have any luck installing the citrix receiver on natty? [01:45] sebsebseb, Ubuntu Live 11.04 doesnt work with my system very well [01:46] rjian: oh and I should give you this link really I guess http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/01/unity-2d-gets-a-ppa/ [01:46] !details | perscitus [01:46] perscitus: Please give us full details. For example: "I have a problem with ..., I'm running Ubuntu version .... When I try to do ..., I get the following output: ..., but I expected it to do ..." [01:47] right, bed time [01:47] sebsebseb, Something is wrong with the OSS ATI driver. or combination of monitor and oss driver for ati [01:48] trying to install g3 again [01:49] perscitus: this factoid might be useful [01:49] !ati | perscitus [01:49] perscitus: For Ati/NVidia/Matrox video cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VideoDriverHowto | The ATI and nVidia binary drivers may not currently be installable. [01:49] perscitus: however 11.04 uses a new Xorg as useual, but I think that version has had a lot of changes since say the version of xorg that 10.10 uses [01:49] not sure realy, but I think the xorg in 11.04 may be a major release of it [01:50] and well people have had issues here and there with ATI cards and Linux distro's for well years now [01:50] sebsebseb, i think its my monitor [01:51] sebsebseb, for the past 2 years, Ubuntu splash has never worked right. [01:51] splash [01:51] ? [01:53] sebsebseb, still have the black on left.. :( [01:54] rjian: with what? Unity 2D? [01:55] sebsebseb, ive install the unity 2d already and change it to Ubuntu the panel on the left side is black [01:55] rjian: by the way there will be another way you can try Unity, altough it is Unity 2D [01:55] in fact you can try from a web browser once the release comes out [01:55] of 11.04 [01:57] sebsebseb, is it possible to reset back to 10.10? [01:58] !downgrade | rjian [01:58] rjian: Attempting to downgrade to an older Ubuntu version is explicitly not supported and may break your system. [01:58] sebsebseb, aw ok.. i think i have to reinstall it back [01:59] any ideas on how to fix blank screen on beta 2 live cd for ATI cards? I've tried nomodeselect option as well, but all I get then is a drop to the shell [02:00] kj4ohh: no, but uhmm you should see the fall back Gnome 2, if you don't get Unity, really [02:00] (Gnome 2 with Ubuntu specific changes to be more exact) [02:00] but I can't even get to the install, haven't tried alternate cd yet [02:00] yes i know i know i shouldn't have, but i installed gnome 3, but i switched back to unity. the only problem is in unity the top bar is the wrong color. how do i get it back ot the corrrect color [02:01] !md5sum | kj4ohh [02:01] kj4ohh: To verify your Ubuntu ISO image (or other files for which an MD5 checksum is provided), see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM or http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/answers/LQ_ISO/Checking_the_md5sum_in_Windows [02:01] !hashes | kj4ohh [02:01] kj4ohh: See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes for the md5sums of Ubuntu discs. [02:01] frewsxcv: what colour? [02:01] * sebsebseb likes the top bar in Unity being a colour that isn't black, when FIrefox is open. [02:02] frewsxcv: you can change the colou of the top bar in Unity using Gnome 2 themes [02:02] sebsebseb: grey [02:02] i feel like the gtk theme is just not set [02:03] alright [02:03] I can't be the only one with derpy wobble window bugs [02:05] torchie: why do you have wobbly windows on in the first place? [02:05] sebsebseb: how do you set the color [02:06] frewsxcv: uhmm [02:06] frewsxcv: get into Gnome 2 appearnce, try changing the Gnome 2 theme, or changing the colour option in there [02:07] frewsxcv, isn't it the default [02:07] hello [02:08] When a window is maximised in unity, how can I get access to the window menu that contains "Always on Top", etc. (is there an official name for this menu?) [02:08] so, i just loaded up the live version of Natty Beta 2 on my netbook, and i'm getting the old interface instead of unity. is this supposed to happen? i thought unity was the new default? [02:09] anybody? [02:10] CalicoJack: which graphics card? [02:10] thomi: nice question, but that is not a feature of Unity [02:10] uh, Nvidia ion (but no proprietary drivers, cause it is the live version) [02:10] CalicoJack: that's why then [02:11] ah alright [02:11] CalicoJack: you need either the propritary Nivida driver installed, or the experimental open driver [02:11] so it only loads unity if you've got accelerated gfx? [02:11] in my case trying on a desktop, the propritary Nivida driver meant it would well freeze [02:11] Unity would [02:11] ,but then removing it and installing the experimental one well that would work [02:11] kk [02:11] thanks very much that explains it [02:11] CalicoJack: yep need some sort of hardware acceclleration for the 3D version, but there's also a Unity 2D with a ppa that uses Qt [02:12] sebsebseb: right, but unity hides the window title bar when it's maximised, right? (or rather, integrates it with the global panel thingy), which makes it impossible to right-click on the window title bar to get access to this menu. [02:12] CalicoJack: oh and for the desktop they should have gone with Gnome Shell realy the new interface for Gnome 3 :) ,but no they haven't hmm [02:12] thomi: no the menu isn't there at all, because it's not part of Unity [02:13] sebsebseb: yeah, my jury is still out on both unity and gnome shell. just trying to futz around with them a bit to see if i like the new metaphor. [02:13] sebsebseb: umm, I'm not sure I understand. It is there for non-maximised windows... right click on a window title... [02:13] thomi: of course if you right click on the desktop, and for example cahnge the background, your really using Gnome 2 to do this [02:13] thomi: at the moment, however with 11.10 well you will have GNome 3 instead under neath [02:13] thanks again for the help! [02:14] ok, I see [02:14] Is it worth reporting as a bug/ wishlist feature? It'd be a shame to see that functionality dissapear. [02:14] thomi: and so like old Gnome Shell's Unity is currently a interface that goes on top of Gnome 2, instead of using the normal interface [02:15] thomi: could be worth a try as a wishlist feature suggestion, but I would like to see something like that in GNome Shell as well, which I think is lacking as well at the moment hmm, well not tried very latest Gnome Shell yet. [02:26] I'm in the process of doing a dist upgrade to 11.04. I was wondering if there is a package for gnome3? [02:27] Datz: yes there is [02:27] sebsebseb: awesome :) [02:27] Datz: http://askubuntu.com/questions/22946/how-do-i-install-the-latest-version-of-gnome-3 [02:27] home my ATI mobility x1400 works with it [02:27] ah, thanks sebsebseb [02:28] as far as I know the Gnome 3 ppa lacks a few things, that well proper Gnome 3 distro's have, but nothing major, so :) [02:29] ah, I see [02:29] Datz: ok have fun with Gnome 3/Shell then, and yep it's better than Unity really :D [02:29] major distro's like Fedora? [02:30] sebsebseb: is it. I haven't had the pleasure of trying unity yet [02:30] well there's that Fedora based Live CD and a OpenSuse from http://gnome3.org ,but Fedora 15 will be released next month with Gnome 3 [02:30] ah right [02:30] plus some other distro's already do Gnome 3 [02:31] I was hoping to have both Unity and Gnome 3 at my disposal [02:31] Datz: yes same here really, but there's a little issue with that still, as far as I know [02:31] unless the Gnome 3 ppa team have fixed it already of course [02:31] hum [02:31] basically you install the Gnome 3 ppa [02:31] and [02:31] linteresting [02:32] Unity 3D the one that comes with 11.04, and even the Unity 2D made with Qt, ppa [02:32] well the Unity's can't load them up from GDM the log in screen, however they are probably still installed and working really [02:33] humm [02:33] Datz: something I expect to be fixed by the time the final comes out though, if it's not already fixed [02:33] I see. Well I guess I'll find out soon enough [02:33] so, 11.04 comes with Unity and Gnome2 by default? [02:33] well really [02:33] Unity is like the old Gnome Shell's [02:33] ah [02:33] in 11.04 [02:34] an alternative itnerface that goes on top of Gnome 2, under neath is Gnome 2 [02:34] * Datz is starting to get it [02:34] so there will be a Unity version which is built atop gnome 3 eventually? [02:34] for 11.10 they will have Gnome 3 underneath instead, and Unity 2d probably as the fallback option instead of Gnome 2 [02:34] ah [02:34] that makes sense [02:34] I was typing the answer to your question, before I even read your question :D [02:34] kind of [02:34] haha [02:35] you would think they'd just wait for gnome 3 [02:35] and build unity atop it [02:35] Gnome 3 is already out [02:35] and has been since April 6th [02:35] sure, but they started work on unity based on Gnome2 [02:35] yes, but that's, because well [02:36] they decided not to go with Gnome Shell for the desktop, which they should have done really, since Gnome is the real upstream, not them [02:36] humm [02:36] I see :) [02:37] originally Unity was going to be netbook only [02:37] * Datz checks and sees 7 more min on the dist upgrade download :) [02:37] and yeah there it was in 10.10 as a netbook interface, which I also tried out on my desktop with Ubuntu and Lubuntu which I quite liked doing [02:37] sebsebseb: ah. I think I almost remember that [02:37] ah [02:38] personally from what I have seen of the 11.04 Uniyt's so 3D and 2D, I actsaully prefer the 10.10, but anyway back to what I was saying [02:38] I've only tried unity in 10.04, of what it had progressed to at that point [02:38] ah [02:38] put simpalley, Canonical and upstream Gnome had differnet idea's for what they wanted as a desktop interface, and so it was decided that Unity would be by default for the desktop version as well starting with 11.04 [02:38] I tried Unity in 10.10, but it didn't work with my laptops card [02:39] ah [02:39] I wonder what the future holds for ubuntu and Gnome 3 [02:39] I'm guessing after all this energy into Unity, they'll stick with it for default for awhile [02:39] I care more about the future of Desktop Linux as a whole, and the various distro's :) [02:40] Xubuntu is going to be bigger this year [02:40] yea, well I don't know what the right direction is [02:40]