[00:27]  * bigcalm looks in
[00:27] <bigcalm> popey: still awake?
[00:28]  * Azelphur looks
[00:32] <ali1234> i see "sony online entertainment" on http://ec2disabled.com/
[00:33] <ali1234> is it possible the PSN outage is related?
[00:33] <ali1234> seems unlikely they'd host it on amazon but you never know
[00:33] <Azelphur> ali1234: the PSN outage is anonymous isn't it? o.O
[00:33] <ali1234> no they made a statement saying "for once it wasn't us"
[00:34] <jacobw> heh
[00:34] <Azelphur> oh, I heard it was
[00:34] <Azelphur> lol
[00:35] <Azelphur> I'm loving it, the more PSN is down the more attention gets brought to the geohot case
[00:35] <Azelphur> and that Linux support was removed from playstation :p
[00:35] <ali1234> but geohot is over and done with
[00:35] <Azelphur> I don't really call "Your not allowed to re-enable features that you paid for" a win
[00:36] <Azelphur> That was a forfeit at best
[00:36] <ali1234> the case was not won or lost
[00:36] <Azelphur> no it was settled, and the settlement terms are that geohot isn't allowed to do any sony jailbreaking
[00:36] <ali1234> meh
[00:37] <hamitron> so sony kinda won ;)
[00:37] <Azelphur> ^ exactly
[00:37] <hamitron> tbh, sony have won whilst they can do what they want
[00:37] <ali1234> what about that other guy?
[00:37] <Azelphur> I know Anonymous are still hitting them, the sit in at sony stores went ahead but it wasn't very successful
[00:38] <Azelphur> I hope they come up with something more effective.
[00:38] <hamitron> sit in?
[00:38] <Azelphur> hamitron: they basically protested outside sony stores
[00:38] <ali1234> sony stores are alwats empty anyway
[00:38] <hamitron> that is stupid
[00:38] <ali1234> they were probably glad of the company
[00:38] <Azelphur> xD
[00:39] <ali1234> for that matter the cross over between anonymous and spotty electronics store salesman oiks is probably quite high too
[00:39] <hamitron> attempting to protest like that when such a small number, means it is hard work and very time consuming for those attempting it
[00:45] <ali1234> hey the settlement was leaked
[00:45] <ali1234> i wonder if this is real
[00:48] <hamitron> until sony back down and publically announce they have re-enabled the feature, doesn't affect me
[00:48] <hamitron> :)
[00:48] <hamitron> kinda doubt they will.... but can hope
[00:49] <ali1234> doesn't affect me either, neither does the iphone jailbreak
[00:49] <ali1234> because i'll never buy this stuff
[00:50] <hamitron> I was going to buy a ps3
[00:50] <ali1234> save your money
[00:50] <hamitron> but removing the "other os" feature directed me back into PC gaming, and I got a copy of Windows 7
[00:50] <hamitron> :)
[00:51] <hamitron> kinda glad, cuz now I've got bored of games again
[00:51] <hamitron> and got a better comp to do stuff
[00:56] <ali1234> right i'm going to upgrade to natty
[00:56] <ali1234> and make a list of everything i don't like about it
[00:56] <hamitron> gl
[01:34] <directhex> there are other sony cases still going
[01:34] <directhex> e.g. graf_chokolo
[01:34] <directhex> or is it choloko
[01:56] <ali1234> oh yeah that's the guy i was trying to think of
[01:59] <ali1234> graf "you'll have to kill me to stop me" chokolo :)
[01:59] <ali1234> will be more interested to see how that one turns out
[02:30] <ali1234> usb startup disk creator took an hour and a half
[02:30] <ali1234> it only took 10 minutes to download the iso
[02:32] <ali1234> usb 3-3.1.2: not running at top speed; connect to a high speed hub
[02:32] <ali1234> oh
[02:32] <ali1234> but... it is a high speed hub
[02:32] <ali1234> i hope the new kernel actually fixes some of this stuff
[02:33] <ali1234> ok here goes
[02:49] <ali1234> well here i am on the livecd
[02:49] <ali1234> got classic desktop
[03:19] <KINGOFSWORDS>  hi i get 'grub loading.error no such partition grub rescue>' even hou ive wiped drive
[03:20] <ali1234> what did you expect to happen?
[03:22] <KINGOFSWORDS> erm dunno
[03:22] <KINGOFSWORDS> but theres no windwos or linux on there, isnt grub a linux thing
[03:22] <ali1234> not really no
[03:23] <ali1234> it is installed in the mbr not in a partition
[03:23] <ali1234> if you want to get rid of it write 0s to the raw device
[03:23] <KINGOFSWORDS> so it should say this regardless of linuix being installed or not
[03:23] <ali1234> well i suppose you could say that
[03:24] <KINGOFSWORDS> ok thx
[06:39] <HazRPG> Baaaaah! I hate it when they always refer to hackers incorrectly in the media... idiots... anyways apparently PSN is down, has been down, for the past 3 days... and apparently hackers are to blame :/ http://psx-scene.com/forums/f6/psn-still-off-worldwide-day-3-hackers-being-blamed-sony-85343/
[06:51] <ali1234> that website is really, really, obnoxious
[06:51] <ali1234> oh wait, it's because i haven't reinstalled adblock
[06:51] <ali1234> is that what the internet looks like these days?
[06:57] <HazRPG> ali1234: tis sadly :/
[06:57] <HazRPG> anyways, time for some sleep... night all \o
[06:58] <ali1234> i'm really amazed by how slow unity is
[06:58] <ali1234> switching foxus to a different window takes 3 seconds
[06:58] <ali1234> the apps themselves don't run slow
[06:58] <ali1234> well, except for banshee
[07:07] <Myrtti> I've even donated to adblock for chromium
[07:08] <Myrtti> can't live without one

[08:15] <popey> mng
[08:15] <MartijnVdS> popey: wasn't support for mng dropped? :P
[08:15] <MartijnVdS> popey: (good morning to you too)_
[08:17] <popey> ali1234: yeah, I had to fiddle with compiz settings to make alt-tab more bareable
[08:18] <daubers> Morning
[08:23] <MartijnVdS> \o daubers
[08:23] <KINGOFSWORDS>  hello...i dont have the wifi applet in the top task bar...anyone know how to get it back?
[08:23] <MartijnVdS> KINGOFSWORDS: do you have the "messages" (envelope) icon?
[08:25] <daubers> bah, someone needs to make a gmail lens
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> lens?
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> Someone needs to make it possible to move the left bar to the right
[08:26] <daubers> Also, we should have a code "open house" day
[08:27] <MartijnVdS> I'm not touching the Unity code.. it's crashy enough as it is ;)
[08:32]  * daubers often wonders how many useful little tools people have hidden away
[08:43] <AlanBell> daubers: we should
[08:47] <daubers> AlanBell: Be quite cool to do at Oggcamp
[08:48] <AlanBell> or an evening of IRC+mumble
[08:48] <daubers> That too
[08:48] <daubers> We could mix it up with Jono's IRC+Slides thing too
[08:49] <daubers> lernid or whatever it was
[08:49] <AlanBell> yup
[08:51]  * daubers hopes the post office is open this morning
[08:52]  * AlanBell sees MooDoo making a career limiting tweet :)
[09:24] <nigelb> AlanBell: career limiting tweet? :p
[09:26] <nigelb> haha, I see it :p
[09:35] <AlanBell> hello piepopey
[09:36] <popey> AlanBell: http://popey.com/graphs/ubuntu-uk-current.png
[09:36] <AlanBell> ah, that again
[09:37]  * daubers goes off to do the gardening in the sun
[09:38] <popey> hmm, piespy is setup to make 1920x1080 images, why is it making 1600x900 images?
[09:39] <popey> hmm, stupid browser perhaps
[09:49] <nigelb> oh yay
[09:49] <nigelb> I'm in the diagram!
[09:49] <nigelb> hello popey btw
[09:52] <popey> :)
[09:58] <MooDoo> morning all
[09:59] <nigelb> hello MooDoo
[10:00] <nigelb> 3-day weekend is full of win, except for the bit where I'm working :\
[10:02] <AlanBell> what is a nice way of printing out an empty calendar?
[10:05] <AlanBell> nvm, google calendar with all the calendars turned off is good
[10:39] <directhex> AlanBell, `cal`
[10:43] <dwatkins> I like that google calendar now shows the date on the tab
[10:44] <popey> it doesnt here
[10:44] <popey> oh, the favicon, so it does
[10:48] <dutchie> hah, never noticed that before
[11:03] <dwatkins> It's very new, only got implemented here in the last week or so.
[11:03] <dwatkins> http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2011/04/5-years-of-google-calendar-and-new.html
[11:31] <MartijnVdS> I had seen the favicon
[11:31] <MartijnVdS> I hadn't noticed its updating
[11:34] <gord> yaay portal 2 arrived
[11:34] <gord> but i can't put it on my pc because the hackers took down the playstation network :(
[11:34] <marxjohnson> I hope CrossOver can play it soon :(
[12:19] <imexil> popey: Just listening to S4E4 and the "news" in the not about Ubuntu section about Linus' rage is quite out of date isn't it. I mean he wrote it on the 30th Nov 2010 ;)
[12:21] <brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
[12:22] <Pendulum> hiya
[12:22] <brobostigon> heya Pendulum
[12:22] <Pendulum> brobostigon: how's you?
[12:22] <brobostigon> Pendulum: not bad, to hot, nd tired, and you?
[12:23] <Pendulum> yeah, I heard this year the head wave was preceeding my arrival in the UK (usually I bring heat waves with me).
[12:24] <Pendulum> I'm not bad, though. Trying to figure out if I can drag a mate out for dinner or something later because I want nice food and I don't really go to nice restaurants on my own
[12:25] <brobostigon> you will manage to do it, i think, :)
[12:25] <Pendulum> maybe
[12:26] <gordonjcp> Pendulum: raining up here
[12:26]  * brobostigon scp's gordonjcp some sun.
[12:26] <Pendulum> I'm hoping that pointing out 'meat' will help (his gf is a vegetarian and they are on low budget so can't buy foods they aren't both going to eat)
[12:26] <Pendulum> gordonjcp: well I don't know for sure if I'm making it to Scotland yet :P
[12:27] <gordonjcp> I swear everything in the garden has grown about half an inch since 8am
[12:27]  * brobostigon puts ch4 on, big bang theory.
[12:28] <Pendulum> it's raining here too, although not hard yet
[12:28] <Pendulum> but it's early
[12:28] <Pendulum> supposed to get worse
[12:29] <Pendulum> at least it's not snow
[12:30] <brobostigon> very true,
[12:35] <MooDoo> raining?
[12:40] <Pendulum> MooDoo: don't get too excited unless you're in Scotland or the US :P
[12:41] <MooDoo> nah nottingham, then again it's supposed to go downhill here over the next few days
[12:41] <Pendulum> MooDoo: I arrive in the UK on 1 May so expect heat after that :P
[12:42] <MooDoo> :) bring it with you :)
[12:43] <gordonjcp> Pendulum: are you going to make it this far north?
[12:43] <Pendulum> gordonjcp: trying to, nothing definite.
[12:44] <gordonjcp> cool
[12:44] <Pendulum> I'm not sure I want to. Last time, I spent 2 weeks in a hotel in Scotland with no aircon and 30 degree weather (or close to). Was miserable until the last afternoon when it rained and I nearly crawled onto the window ledge just so I could sit in it (which is quite a feat if you know that the window was about the height of my head)
[12:45] <gordonjcp> sounds like a pretty horrible hotel
[12:45] <Pendulum> well, that last afternoon the roof also leaked
[12:45] <Pendulum> not a hotel I'm going to back to
[12:46] <Pendulum> gordonjcp: if I'm up, I'm probably not seeing many geeks (if any), so we'll see :-/
[12:57] <Azelphur> Hmm, my internet randomly came back up again \o/
[12:57] <Azelphur> I'm only syncing at 4mbit instead of the 11mbit I was at before, though :(
[12:57] <directhex> sounds like a buggered line
[12:57] <Azelphur> yea I been saying that since the start :D
[12:57] <matti> ;]
[12:59] <Azelphur> On day one it kept on having lots of short disconnects, then it went down completely for like 24h, then it came back up, short disconnects, down again, modem wouldn't even try to dial for a long time (no ADSL Light on the router), then after a really long time it tried to dial and failed, then it started doing pretty much flapping (continually reconnecting) and now it's up again but at 4mbit \o/
[13:00] <Azelphur> directhex: the fun part is that I've had line issues before, the BT engineer comes along with an ADSL modem and says "ADSL works!" and walks away
[13:00] <Azelphur> but I have a feeling the problem is somehow ADSL2+ related
[13:01] <directhex> Azelphur, BT won't accept ADSL faults as their problem, IME. when the phone stops working, it's different
[13:01] <Azelphur> interesting, who's problem is an ADSL fault?
[13:02] <Azelphur> The engineers arn't great in this area, a little while ago I spent like 2 weeks with a crossed line because some guy dropped metal shavings onto a circuit board in the exchange
[13:02] <Azelphur> Which obviously couldn't have done the board I'm connected to any good :p
[13:09] <brobostigon> question, for seesmic on android to update does it require background data to be enabled?
[13:09] <popey> imexil: there was some more recent rage too :)
[13:10] <Azelphur> Speaking of android, anyone wanna buy a used G1? :p, It's had invisibleshield on it since day one so it's in good condition :)
[13:11] <Pendulum> Azelphur: how much?
[13:11]  * Pendulum is looking for a phone she can use for PAYG while in the UK
[13:12] <Pendulum> (and by the time I was told to look at the tmobile pulse mini it was off the tmobile site :( )
[13:14] <Azelphur> Pendulum: like £70?
[13:14] <Azelphur> Pendulum: it's rooted and sim unlocked :p
[13:14] <Pendulum> okay, outside my budget (which is okay, I'm probably going to end up with something supercheap and not a smartphone)
[13:14] <Azelphur> haha
[13:14] <Azelphur> how much you looking to spend?
[13:15] <Pendulum> under £50
[13:15] <Azelphur> yea, not gonna get anything very smart for under £50 xD
[13:16] <Pendulum> I think Three actually has an android phone for £50, but I have no idea how Three is as a network
[13:16] <Azelphur> really? surely that's on contract
[13:16] <Azelphur> cheapest pay as you go android phone I've seen is £100
[13:16] <Pendulum> http://threestore.three.co.uk/payg/default.aspx?zte=1
[13:17] <popey> Pendulum: you can borrow my htc hero while you're here if tony has finished with it
[13:17] <Pendulum> says it runs Eclair
[13:17] <Azelphur> blimey
[13:18] <gord> three are okay, not as much coverage as the other big companies, but okay
[13:18] <Pendulum> popey: no way to get it from you/back to you, but I appreciate the offer (tbh, I'm in the UK enough that having my own phone I can use when over would be useful. I had one, but the charger went MIA and no one has old Nokia chargers anymore)
[13:18] <gord> if you are not going into the wilderness, your fine with three
[13:19] <Azelphur> Pendulum: I think three has the best mobile internet coverage
[13:19] <popey> Pendulum: when do you arrive?
[13:19] <Pendulum> a week Sunday :)
[13:19] <popey> I'm happy to ship it to where you're staying
[13:19] <popey> but if you get an alternative, no worries :)
[13:21] <Pendulum> Azelphur: that's good to know since I am also probably going to be in the market for mobile internet dongles for my laptop :)
[13:21] <Azelphur> yea, I used to be with three and I'd recommend em they are pretty cool, I know my brother is too
[13:22]  * AlanBell has spare simless Orange dongle
[13:22] <AlanBell> however wifi tethering is more convenient generally
[13:23] <Azelphur> yea, I just usb/wireless tether with my desire Z :D
[13:25] <Azelphur> that ZTE racer from three doesn't look half bad at all
[13:25] <Azelphur> It's like a cheaper version of the ZTE Blade which is a very nice budget phone too
[13:26] <Azelphur> 600mhz arm 11 with adreno 200, 256MB of RAM
[13:26] <Pendulum> yeah, I'm going to run it by my 'we do phone apps people' since I'll probably also end up using it for Android devel stuff
[13:26] <Pendulum> (they were the ones to tell me about the pulse mini, just a little too late to be helpful ;-) )
[13:28]  * brobostigon hugs his htc dream.
[13:29] <Pendulum> bah, my get up and go wants me to get up and go, but I don't have anywhere to go :(
[13:31] <gord> my get up and go is telling me to clean the damn house, alas my couch is telling me to stay here because its more comfy
[13:31] <Azelphur> I'm really impressed by that ZTE Racer, I see videos on youtube it seems to handle some basic gaming and has a pretty beefy CPU
[13:32] <Azelphur> Decent disposable android phones come another step closer :P
[13:32] <brobostigon> which android version has it got, and is it manually upgradable?
[13:33] <Azelphur> brobostigon: 2.1 upgradable to 2.2
[13:34] <brobostigon> Azelphur: 2.2, isnew enough, 2.1, is pretty old in many ways,
[13:34] <Azelphur> oh whoops wrong review, just has 2.1
[13:34] <Azelphur> but maybe you can get a custom rom for it
[13:36] <brobostigon> Azelphur: 2.1 is pretty old really. and isnt very nice in a few ways.
[13:40] <Azelphur> :p
[13:40] <Azelphur> brobostigon: for £50 though it's pretty decent
[13:41] <dragonkeeper_> anyone ever tried the program CDemu ??
[13:41] <brobostigon> Azelphur: yes, very true.
[13:42] <brobostigon> Azelphur: i suspect i am still using the most common android version, 2.2.*
[13:42] <Azelphur> I'm on CM nightlies, so 2.3 :D
[13:43] <brobostigon> Azelphur: there isnt a cm version anymore for htc dream, lastversion was 2.2.1 nightlie.
[13:43] <Azelphur> indeed :(
[13:43] <Azelphur> hense why my brother wants to sell his HTC Dream xD
[13:43] <brobostigon> agreed, :(
[13:43] <danfish> afternoon - 'tis a triffle warm today http://family.fishms.org/index.html
[13:44] <brobostigon> i am happy though with my dream and 2.2.1, it is mostly perfect.
[13:44] <Azelphur> http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2011/04/21/sony_should_pay_100_to_man_for_otheros_removal_consumer_board_says
[13:44] <Azelphur> Yay :D
[13:58] <Myrtti> ho-hum
[14:10] <Seeker`> lo
[14:29] <DragonKeeper> Phoronix interviews a game developer who works with Linux Game Publishing to create native GNU-Linux games from existing titles on other operating system platforms.
[14:30] <Azelphur> nice
[14:34] <directhex> except LGP release 1 or 2 games every 5 years, and the games are already old before they start
[14:36] <DragonKeeper> well atlest its good to know  company’s are taking linux into consideration when creating games
[14:40] <DragonKeeper> http://www.lgdb.org/list_games
[14:56] <shauno> most of them aren't taking it into consideration at all.  it doesn't come up until they're trying to milk the last drips out of a dead product a few years later
[14:56] <Seeker`> mmmm...milk
[15:01]  * DragonKeeper wants a 360 emulator
[15:04] <Seeker`> I hear xbox  360s are good for those
[15:04] <Seeker`> :P
[15:04] <DragonKeeper> but then wouldnt really be an emulation would it
[15:04] <Seeker`> why do you want an emulator?
[15:06] <DragonKeeper> i just like everything to run on pc  and will allow me to test games out with out having to mod my xbox drive again
[15:06] <Seeker`> if you want to "test" games, subscribe to lovefilm
[15:07] <DragonKeeper> =S  why pay  when i can just download burn and play + keep forever
[15:08] <Seeker`> because thats just a little immoral?
[15:08] <exobuzz> its not as immoral as game reselling games and making money again and again for the same game
[15:08] <exobuzz> if your going to start judging
[15:08] <exobuzz> you're
[15:08] <Seeker`> exobuzz: don't buy second hand games then?
[15:08] <exobuzz> i don't
[15:08] <DragonKeeper> well i buy games  like call of duty  .  but no point me  buying a game ill never play
[15:09] <DragonKeeper> so i test 1st
[15:09] <exobuzz> anyway. tis offtopic here right
[15:09] <Seeker`> exobuzz: it is different from buying second hand games, because the original purchaser no longer has a copy to run
[15:10] <Seeker`> downloading the disk means that you are creating an extra copy for free
[15:10] <exobuzz> Seeker`, that's not the argument im making. but anyway. not here.
[15:10] <Seeker`> not here?
[15:10] <hamitron> there are costs involved in reselling something.....
[15:10] <hamitron> ;/
[15:11] <Seeker`> DragonKeeper: There are various things you could do, including reading reviews and renting before you result to "stealing"
[15:12] <Seeker`> *resort
[15:12] <hamitron> imo, no harm in "borrowing" a game for a few hours
[15:12] <Seeker`> -14:07:52- :DragonKeeper : =S  why pay  when i can just download burn and play + keep forever
[15:12] <Seeker`> "forever" tends not to be "a few hours"
[15:13] <hamitron> that is just wrong
[15:13] <hamitron> and someone steals my work, I'd be rather nasty to them for it
[15:13] <DragonKeeper> well if im going to pay for a game ill never use again   that seems point less to me
[15:13] <DragonKeeper> if i like it  i buy it new
[15:13] <hamitron> you only use a hamburger you buy once
[15:13] <hamitron> ;p
[15:14] <hamitron> it has still satisfyed it
[15:14] <hamitron> you
[15:14] <Seeker`> DragonKeeper: Thats a risk you take.
[15:14] <DragonKeeper> :S  im not going to buy it  then buy it again   of course ill only buy once lol
[15:15] <hamitron> imo, they should integrate malware into software, then a proper key keeps the malware deactivated
[15:15] <hamitron> :D
[15:15] <Seeker`> DragonKeeper: You don't have to buy it. You could rent it.
[15:15] <DragonKeeper> someone will just make a new exe or dll to bypass it
[15:16] <Seeker`> Or just buy it and if you don't like it, ebay it
[15:16] <DragonKeeper> rent is just buying it for a few days    where as i might only play it for an hr and never want to  use it again
[15:16] <exobuzz> most people who download / copy games (not i don't use the word stealing), are not the customers anyway. my point is just that, if someone downloads something to try and doesnt like it, and deletes it, have they dont more damage to the original creator than a store that sells a game multiple times (but the creator gets paid once), to people who are actually looking to "buy" the game. plus they resell sometimes at full price.
[15:16] <exobuzz> s/dont/done
[15:16] <hamitron> dragonkeeper: it is people like you that mean the honest players who give the publishers ammunition for all this DRM hassle we get
[15:17] <hamitron> bleh, too much to drink :/
[15:17] <DragonKeeper> if they want my money then make a decent game ,   if i download game play it  enjoy the game then i go out and buy a proper disk.
[15:17] <hamitron> play for how long?
[15:18] <DragonKeeper> few hours
[15:18] <hamitron> that is acceptable
[15:18] <hamitron> imo
[15:18] <shauno> I'm not sure why the time makes a difference
[15:18] <exobuzz> i really can't stand either side of these arguments. from those who never buy stuff who don't get it, to those who seem to feel the need to force their morality onto everyone else. blah blah.
[15:19] <DragonKeeper> isnt like i have TBs of games and  make disks to sell to friends lol
[15:19] <shauno> you pay a couple of quid to rent a movie for a night or two.  does that make it legit to download it instead because you're only actually going to spend 2 hours watching it, not 2 nights?
[15:20] <DragonKeeper> 2 nights watching a film    thats insanely  long   i dont want to watch that film    but thanks any way
[15:20] <hamitron> I have often downloaded a game just to test if it runs on my PC :/
[15:20] <exobuzz> i just bought / donated to the last humble indie bundle and i cant even play em ;-)
[15:21] <hamitron> exobuzz: that would annoy me
[15:21] <exobuzz> i knew before i bought
[15:21] <exobuzz> :
[15:21] <exobuzz> :)
[15:21] <exobuzz> but since i had the other two. wanted to have all three heh
[15:21] <DragonKeeper> exactly   basicly wasted your money for something you wont ever play o.O
[15:21] <exobuzz> yeh although it was my money to waste thanks. im not on your side of the argument, nor the other ;-)
[15:22] <hamitron> I think offering Demo's is best, then no reason to have to download a test copy
[15:22] <DragonKeeper> although most demos dont give full features    so isnt really a decent experience
[15:22] <hamitron> and I often find I buy a game when I can try a demo :)
[15:23] <DragonKeeper> if they did full features and only a mission or 2 then will be fine
[15:23] <hamitron> dragonkeeper: ballance has to be right ofc
[15:23] <hamitron> :)
[15:23] <exobuzz> hamitron, i reckon more games will move towards micro payment stuff in the future. buy level 1. buy level 2 etc. they can probably make more money that way. they being the publishers. the poor coders never make enough of course
[15:23] <hamitron> exobuzz: yes :(
[15:23] <hamitron> addon packs every 6 months \o/
[15:23] <exobuzz> it's good to see in recent years the rise again of the indie developer
[15:24] <exobuzz> http://www.pcworld.com/article/223431/riaa_thinks_limewire_owes_75_trillion_in_damages.html shows how detached the "copyright" holders are from reality too :)
[15:24] <hamitron> I bought 3 of the 4 addon packs for RACE 07, but starting to get sick of it :/
[15:25] <DragonKeeper> LOL who uses limewire anymore o.O
[15:25] <exobuzz> the riaa use it ;-)
[15:25] <DragonKeeper> i thought that went out the window years ago
[15:25] <hamitron> limewire have cost me £100s
[15:25] <hamitron> personally
[15:25] <hamitron> :(
[15:25] <DragonKeeper> o.O
[15:25] <exobuzz> hamitron, shh. make it £2 trillion
[15:25] <exobuzz> :)
[15:26] <hamitron> I've downloaded stuff, liked it, and bought it \o.
[15:26] <hamitron> but I am a sucker for buying stuff and collecting :)
[15:26] <exobuzz> my problem with buying stuff, is ive run out of room . and i cant possible throw out my 300+ amiga games to make space for more dvds
[15:26] <Seeker`> exobuzz: I'm not sure how much the RIAA works for content owners, or whether they are just lining their own pockets
[15:27] <Seeker`> buy a bigger house then?
[15:27] <exobuzz> Seeker`, i think sadly it's the latter
[15:27] <hamitron> exobuzz: a huge problem :)
[15:27] <exobuzz> Seeker`, haha.. sure. can you loan me a deposit ?
[15:27] <DragonKeeper> why not use HDDs instead of disks
[15:27] <Azelphur> exobuzz: old news re limewire is old xD
[15:27] <Seeker`> saving up my own atm
[15:27] <exobuzz> for the dvds? i normally dump em. but i like touchy feely boxes
[15:28] <hamitron> all my games are in boxes, but I've imaged them onto hdd for easy access
[15:28] <Azelphur> I don't use CDs/DVDs at all any more
[15:28] <DragonKeeper> limewire  site was posted  Mar 26, 2011 5:44 AM        who is even awake at that time :O
[15:28] <hamitron> well, most of the old ones
[15:28] <exobuzz> same like i could have pdfs of my 1980s coding books. but i prefer to go to bed with a book
[15:28] <Azelphur> I actually sold my DVD drive a few months ago, my PC doesn't have one.
[15:28] <Azelphur> All my media is on hdds 100% now.
[15:28] <hamitron> exobuzz: real books ftw
[15:28] <DragonKeeper> Azelphur  how many HDDs ?
[15:28] <exobuzz> Azelphur, how do you dump new media? ;-)
[15:28] <Seeker`> I need more hard drives to get all my media on to them
[15:28] <Azelphur> exobuzz: I don't, I'm all like yarr :p
[15:28] <Seeker`> 3.5TB isn't enough :(
[15:29] <Azelphur> dragonkeeper I have 3 HDDs totalling 5TB atm
[15:29] <Azelphur> I just buy more when I need them
[15:29] <Azelphur> that's my major content store :p
[15:29] <exobuzz> i got 12tb of hds, of which 6 is usable .. im such a backup whore
[15:29] <Seeker`> I need to build a fileserver/mythtv backend with space for 5 drives
[15:29] <Seeker`> + an OS drive
[15:30] <DragonKeeper> wow     i have wiped  most of the crap  i dont want    im at 2.5tb    with only 1tb filled up  and i havnt finished   ripping my cds      i have about 5 racks left
[15:30] <exobuzz> my fileserver http://www.exotica.org.uk/mediawiki/files/c/ca/Aerocool_server.jpg
[15:30] <DragonKeeper> nice
[15:30] <Azelphur> Seeker`: that's exactly what I have
[15:31] <exobuzz> Azelphur, do you watch media on the joggler ?
[15:31] <exobuzz> Azelphur, or still just a "clock" ;-)
[15:31] <Azelphur> exobuzz: my jogglers are idle atm xD
[15:31] <exobuzz> (fancy clock mind)
[15:31] <exobuzz> oh noes
[15:31] <Azelphur> http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/3832397/1/MythTV2?h=2832c8 here's my MythTV/file server
[15:32] <exobuzz> Azelphur, do you use xbmc at all, or just the mythtv frontend /backend ?
[15:32] <Azelphur> I just use mythtv
[15:33] <DragonKeeper> i saw xbmc make a O/S
[15:33] <exobuzz> DragonKeeper, an os ?
[15:33] <exobuzz> you mean the live disks? just ubuntu based. there is openelec too, another linux live distribution
[15:34] <Seeker`> exobuzz: what case is that?
[15:34] <exobuzz> my media player is still an xbox1..
[15:34] <DragonKeeper> was looking for alternate linux distros  and just notices a xbmc edition     didnt go  anyfurther into detail as wasnt what i wanted
[15:35] <exobuzz> Seeker`, "aerocool" case. 10 5.25" bays only
[15:35] <exobuzz> http://www.legitreviews.com/article/241/1/
[15:35] <jacobw> i've never bothered to rip my cd's, i just play them on my micro hifi system when i want to listen to them, i find the ideal of listening to music on the go with a portable player doesn't match up with the reality of pausing the music to speak to bus drivers, wondering whether you're missing anything that's going on etc
[15:36] <directhex> i had a server like that
[15:36] <directhex> in a coolermaster stacker
[15:37] <Nafallo> ehrm. except the coolermaster stacker is 12* 5.25", isn't it?
[15:37] <exobuzz> heh. 12x. nice
[15:37] <exobuzz> plenty of space
[15:38] <directhex> Nafallo, don't remember, i got rid
[15:38] <Nafallo> well, quick calculations says I remember right :-)
[15:38] <directhex> it was an older version of the stacker, pretty sure it wasn't 12 bays
[15:39] <directhex> but anyway, i had 8 disks for a while
[15:39] <directhex> on an lsi megaraid
[15:39] <Nafallo> 11 it was.
[15:39] <exobuzz> i just use the old software raid, which is pretty decent these days
[15:39] <Nafallo> http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2007/03/cm_stacker_mod_by_snakez_and_ediejo/page1-2.jpg
[15:39] <directhex> anyway, decided it wasn't worth the money to run it
[15:40] <Nafallo> ah! no! 12!
[15:40] <directhex> after i moved house & had no tv reception for mythtv
[15:40] <Nafallo> you can remove the top part (with usb ports and buttons and stuff)
[15:40] <exobuzz> nice looking case
[15:40] <directhex> you can indeed, if you don#t mind having no power button anymore
[15:41] <Nafallo> mine is in Sweden, cause I couldn't afford taking it on the plane with the extra weight costing a fortune :-P
[15:41] <directhex> it's not a lightweight computer.
[15:41] <Nafallo> you can always fit a power button elsewhere. that's no worries :-)
[15:41] <DragonKeeper> i want one of these http://www.xclio.com/products/case-xclio-777.htm#details
[15:42] <Nafallo> the worst part was that I got a couple of Raptors for it to be system drives just before I moved country :-P
[15:43] <MartijnVdS> (lesson: don't move country) :P
[15:43] <directhex> my pc lives in a http://www.planetpr.pl/data/gallery/full_bd4dfda23685f54645987953dcb0fbc6.jpeg
[15:43] <Nafallo> MartijnVdS: pff. my DL140 beats the crap out of the hardware in the stacker :-)
[15:44] <directhex> wife wants her new pc to live inside a http://www.uk-tec.co.uk/images/products/cslianpcv354r.jpg
[15:44] <MartijnVdS> directhex: looks a bit like mine: http://www.gigabyte.com/fileupload/product/9/2482/1821.jpg (black one)
[15:46] <DragonKeeper> my 6 core lives inside http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1303&ID=1423            NEVER get one lol  i  hate it  o.O
[15:47] <directhex> they still make xasers? :/
[15:47] <directhex> the only case with go-faster stripes
[15:47] <DragonKeeper> lol
[15:47] <exobuzz> 6 cores?
[15:47] <exobuzz> spoilt!
[15:47] <DragonKeeper> yeah  each at 3.2ghz
[15:48] <Nafallo> 6 cores isn't much today actually :-)
[15:48] <Azelphur> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_D0qySDj2e5M/TTzVU7Z0zHI/AAAAAAAAAmQ/JrAVDfprV18/s1600/Antec_1200_by_mazodude.jpg
[15:48] <Azelphur> my case is biggest :D
[15:48] <directhex> a 6-core cpu is £130
[15:48] <Azelphur> (Yes, that is 12 drive bays xD)
[15:48] <exobuzz> my desktop is in a "antec three hundred" case. very basic and only £50 but well built
[15:48] <directhex> at 3.2ghz, it's £155
[15:48] <directhex> not expensive
[15:48] <exobuzz> directhex, low end i7 ?
[15:48] <directhex> exobuzz, phenom 2
[15:48] <exobuzz> aah amd
[15:48] <exobuzz> ok
[15:49] <exobuzz> im out of touch with the amd stuff
[15:49] <hamitron> directhex: how hot?
[15:49] <DragonKeeper> my whole system cost me  about £1200   i bought all parts when they 1st got released     ... wish i waited now :(
[15:50] <Seeker`> Hmm, are there any large cases that don't cost the earth?
[15:50] <directhex> hamitron, 125W
[15:50] <hamitron> geez :/
[15:50] <directhex> Seeker`, you can have good, or cheap.
[15:50] <Seeker`> define "good"?
[15:50] <DragonKeeper> i like them acrylic cases  you can get a decent sized one for £70
[15:50] <directhex> Seeker`, airflow that actually flows air, edges that won't slice your hands up, etc
[15:50] <hamitron> most ITX boards I looked at only took upto 95W
[15:50] <exobuzz> Seeker`, the one i just mentioned i like
[15:51] <exobuzz> Seeker`, http://www.ebuyer.com/product/143854?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products
[15:51] <exobuzz> very basic, but well constructed, and minimalist look.. which suits me
[15:51] <directhex> a "big" case can be as low as £24
[15:51] <DragonKeeper> dam  this cases does some major damage to your wallet  http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1416&ID=1897
[15:52] <directhex> DragonKeeper, the level 10 is a work of art. a bad case, but a work of art
[15:52] <directhex> DragonKeeper, there's a cheap "consumer" version which sucks
[15:53] <directhex> DragonKeeper, try a silverstone temjin 11 - £475 for a pretty "normal" case
[15:53] <Nafallo> hmmmm
[15:53] <Nafallo> Fast Furious 5... anyone seen it yet?
[15:53] <DragonKeeper> yeah  directhex  is a nice thing to have if you can afford it    but till i win lottery  isnt worth having lol
[15:53]  * hamitron wants this http://www.ebuyer.com/product/205560
[15:54] <directhex> hamitron, you need to be extra careful with small cases.
[15:54] <hamitron> yeh
[15:54] <hamitron> :/
[15:54] <hamitron> I can't really find a good one tbh
[15:55] <directhex> hamitron, silverstone are probably your best bet
[15:55] <hamitron> they cost a fair amount
[15:55] <hamitron> ;)
[15:55] <DragonKeeper> i like the Xclio with the  massive fan at front  that will give ya some cooling :)
[15:55] <hamitron> a case is only a frame to holds things to me
[15:55] <directhex> hamitron, yes, they do cost
[15:56] <directhex> hamitron, if you want something that looks like a pc world reject, and can't cool a cpu, get a cheap case
[15:56] <DragonKeeper> lol
[15:56] <hamitron> my current cheap case is fine!
[15:57] <Nafallo> just take a 1U hp server and stuff a PCI-E gfx card in it? :-P
[15:57] <directhex> with a cheap power supply that draws hundreds of wasted watts?
[15:57] <DragonKeeper> pc world reject   that has to be seriously  destroyed to be rejected    i went in there once and a  on display pc had a big dent  :P
[15:57] <directhex> Nafallo, i've worked with rackmount. i know how noisy 40mm fans are.
[15:57] <hamitron> oh, it has a decent enough PSU
[15:57] <Nafallo> and then get LOOOONG cables or you wont hear sounds because of the noise ;-)
[15:58] <hamitron> ITX case with normal ATX PSU would be ideal
[15:58] <hamitron> maybe a DTX case
[15:58] <DragonKeeper> i have a antec quatrro 850w
[15:58] <directhex> DTX is a nothing format. ignore it
[15:59] <hamitron> my ITX mobo would fit in DTX....
[15:59] <Tommeh> I think that's by design.
[15:59] <Nafallo> hmm. no one seen the movie. fine!
[15:59]  * Nafallo goes for a shower
[15:59] <matti> Nafallo: No no no.
[15:59] <matti> Nafallo: Be trendy.
[15:59] <hamitron> DTX would let me use my graphics card still
[16:00] <hamitron> :)
[16:00] <matti> Nafallo: "Nafallo checks in shower with Foursquare" :d
[16:00] <hamitron> but in long term, ITX is fine and will just use onboard graphics
[16:00] <directhex> ._.
[16:00] <matti> Geez I can't stand 4sq.
[16:00] <matti> ;p
[16:01] <matti> piepop.
[16:01] <matti> ;]
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> wasn't it down last week, with the amazon outage?
[16:04] <DragonKeeper> ok  time clean out laptop .  afk
[16:06] <matti> MartijnVdS: It was.
[16:33] <KrimZon> how do I get unity to work in virtualbox?
[16:33] <KrimZon> someone said to install some package or other, ages ago, iirc
[16:34] <BigRedS> KrimZon: virtualbox-ose-guest-x11
[16:34] <BigRedS> I think
[16:34] <KrimZon> I think that's what I installed
[16:35] <BigRedS> You also need virtualbox 4
[16:35] <KrimZon> ahh, that'll be it
[16:36]  * suprengr suggests grabbing an 2nd hand Dell Dimension E520 if you want a good case... big but... wow... if you want room & coolabilty :)
[16:37] <BigRedS> suprengr: hah, yeah, I used to get lost in those :)
[16:42]  * suprengr shouts help! ... still trapped inside mine... can't find the way out ;)
[16:45] <daubers> evening
[16:46] <suprengr> o/ daubers
[16:50]  * daubers waits patiently for his beer to cool
[17:13] <ali1234> popey: i don't find alt-tab particularly slow
[17:13] <dutchie> lo daubers
[17:14] <ali1234> it's slow when i click in one window, then click in another window
[17:18] <daubers> o/ dutchie
[17:21] <KrimZon> upgraded to virtualbox 4...
[17:21] <DragonKeeper> back ,  :)  laptop isnt burning up anymore
[17:22] <ali1234> damn, this stupid dock is really annoying
[17:22] <ali1234> i always *left* click on the terminal icon by mistake and instead of getting a new terminal it gives me an old one that's logged into another machine
[17:22] <ali1234> but i don't notice and i run stuff on the wrong machine
[17:22] <DragonKeeper> ali1234   ubuntu 11.04 i take it ?
[17:23] <KrimZon> woot, it works
[17:23] <ali1234> yes
[17:23] <DragonKeeper> lol
[17:23] <ali1234> also compiz is now so slow that's there is no obvious animation at all
[17:23] <ali1234> even windows don't appear to "scroll"
[17:24] <DragonKeeper> i used 11.04 for about 10 mins  didnt like it so  degraded   .
[17:24] <ali1234> i am going to try to use it for at least a week
[17:24] <ali1234> so get ready for lots of complaining
[17:24] <DragonKeeper> apparently u dont have to use unity  dock if u dont want to and use classic style
[17:25] <ali1234> i know
[17:25] <ali1234> that won't be supported in 11.10 though
[17:25] <DragonKeeper> o.O
[17:26] <DragonKeeper> so 11.10   unity dock only ?
[17:27] <brobostigon> question, i just installed openarena, however i have to run it from /usr/games otherwise if i justtype in, openarena, it comes up with "The command could not be located because '/usr/games' is not included in the PATH environment variable." and i not sure how to resolvethis. advice please.
[17:27] <Azelphur> haha, if I can't strip unity out that'll probably be the day that I have to switch distros :p
[17:27] <ali1234> you can still install gnome if you want, it just won't be supported
[17:28] <ali1234> so it will be like all the other stuff in universe: incredibly buggy
[17:28] <BigRedS> ali1234: never know, it might be fixed by then :0
[17:28] <Azelphur> \o/
[17:28] <BigRedS> Er, tabfail
[17:28] <BigRedS> Azelphur: ^
[17:28] <Azelphur> BigRedS: haha, I'm not holding my breath
[17:28] <ali1234> i reported two bugs on unity so far
[17:29] <ali1234> and i have to report another two
[17:31] <DragonKeeper> yup Azelphur exactly my thought
[17:32] <Azelphur> somehow I doubt multi x screen support is going into unity, ever :P
[17:33] <DragonKeeper> i dnt like unity  looks to mac / chromium like
[17:33] <Azelphur> I'd be ok with it if it worked :P
[17:33] <DragonKeeper> lol
[17:35] <ali1234> where do they keep compiz upstream bugs?
[17:37] <DragonKeeper> bug.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz     maybe  i dunno
[17:45] <ali1234> i just made an interesting discovery
[17:45] <ali1234> it only goes really slow when i try to use ambiance/radiance themes
[17:46] <ali1234> if i switch to a standard theme everything is the same as it was on maverick
[17:49] <ali1234> i bet it's those lolhuge drop shadows that does it
[17:50] <matti> Raaainnn...
[17:50] <matti> Walk in thee rainn..
[17:50] <matti> ;d
[17:50] <matti> Rain vs Smog -- 1:0
[17:50] <matti> ;d
[17:51] <brobostigon> new dr hwho, in ten minutes.
[17:51] <matti> OMG.
[17:51] <matti> Now.
[17:51] <matti> USA one..
[17:51]  * matti twittchess..
[17:57] <MartijnVdS> weird quiz show now
[17:57]  * brobostigon is watchingtime bandits onfilm4 towaste time.
[17:57] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: only 3 minutes
[17:58] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, :)
[17:59] <Seeker`>  Dr Who soon!!!!!!
[17:59] <brobostigon> less than a minute,
[17:59] <Seeker`> MartijnVdS: Weird is the wrong word. "Crap" is far more appropriate.
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: switch now :)
[18:00] <brobostigon> and no spoilers, i am sure there are peoplewho cant watch live,
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> Seeker`: ok, I thought I might be missing some British culture here :)
[18:00] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: dont, :)
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: how about go-faster stripes? :)
[18:00] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: umm, done, :)
[18:01] <shauno> argh!  my cable box says I'm not allowed to watch telly :(((((
[18:01] <brobostigon> shauno: :(
[18:01] <brobostigon> now now now.
[18:01] <MartijnVdS> BBC1HD \o/
[18:02] <Seeker`> ITS STARTED!!
[18:02] <Seeker`> MartijnVdS: how do you get BBC1HD?
[18:02] <shauno> because it's recording two shows at once, it's using both tuners and can't spare me one :(
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> Seeker`: freesat, yes
[18:10] <dragonkeeper_> have you ever had an extension built on your house in Britain by a builder called bob?         that would be so unlikely as bob isnt a polish name
[18:11] <Seeker`> dragonkeeper_: wow, racism too? :P
[18:11] <dragonkeeper_> :) lol
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> !coc
[18:13] <Myrtti> wow http://featherandfan.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/fo-extermiknit-extermiknit/
[18:39] <daubers> right, just need to write a login page, and then this django site can go live \o/
[19:32] <oimon> hey guys..just received the latest Narnia film on CD, and it comes with an extra disc "digital copy" which doesn't work on my ubuntu box - anyone else had this problem?
[19:33] <oimon> seems to be DRM encumbered
[19:33] <AlanBell> take it back
[19:34] <BigRedS> oimon: I'd take it back, personally
[19:34] <BigRedS> if its DRM'd to uselessness, it might as well be a blank disk
[19:34] <oimon> agreed, but we bougt the film for the DVD disc
[19:35] <oimon> but the idea of a second disk saves you ripping it
[19:35] <oimon> i don't think we paid extra for it.
[19:36] <oimon> anyone else seen this though?
[19:37] <oimon> apparently supports idevices, windows, playstation
[19:37] <dragonkeeper_> what  is the disk for ?
[19:37] <AlanBell> a windows user would return it if it didn't work on windows
[19:37] <BigRedS> AlanBell: but he wants to keep the othe rdisk :)
[19:38] <AlanBell> return it and ask for another copy
[19:38] <BigRedS> oimon: who is the publisher?
[19:38] <AlanBell> open that and then return that one too
[19:38] <AlanBell> repeat as many times as you can
[19:38] <oimon> BigRedS: fox
[19:38] <BigRedS> AlanBell: I'd be surprised if there wasn't a System Requirements list on hte box
[19:39] <oimon> BigRedS: it is on the box in illegible text
[19:39] <oimon> and i have 20/20 eyesight
[19:39] <oimon> under wine, i can run a menu that offers me the chance to watch in windows media player :S
[19:39] <oimon> i should just rip the dvd
[19:39] <BigRedS> Ah, but I bet that's enough
[19:40] <oimon> BigRedS: not if WMP does DRM stuffs
[19:40] <BigRedS> Nah, I meant the illegible text is probably enough
[19:40] <oimon> http://www.foxdigitalcopy.com/uk/
[19:44] <oimon> they'll be getting an email from me, which they will forard to /dev/null
[19:53] <oimon> film starting, better give undivided attention :) evening chaps
[20:07] <DragonKeeper> Kill the Irishman 2011  what a great film title :')
[20:07] <Myrtti> eh
[20:11] <shauno> :/
[21:13] <daubers> Ooooh
[21:13] <daubers> thunder
[21:16] <MartijnVdS> daubers: time to get out the camera for some lightning shots? :)
[21:18] <xenic> hi
[21:18] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Tried that a couple of times and never got it right :(
[21:19] <MartijnVdS> daubers: do you have a remote trigger and bulb setting?
[21:19] <MartijnVdS> daubers: that got me http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/3865931054/
[21:20] <daubers> MartijnVdS: I have a bulb setting, but no remote trigger :(
[21:21] <daubers> Or I don't have one, the camera can do it
[21:21] <MartijnVdS> daubers: my remote trigger has a "lock" setting, so I can do >30s shots
[21:21] <MartijnVdS> daubers: but I set it to do 10s shots, in continuous mode
[21:22] <MartijnVdS> leave it pointing at thunderstorm for a few minutes, pick out pictures with beautiful lightning :)
[21:22] <daubers> :)
[21:23] <daubers> Might have a go
[21:23] <daubers> Waiting for hugin to do it's thing to see how well a pano I took last week came out first
[21:24] <MartijnVdS> I haven't done panos in a while
[21:24]  * daubers loves panos
[21:24] <MartijnVdS> daubers: I've been visiting the local "archaeological theme park" lately
[21:25] <MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/
[21:28] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Cool :)
[21:42] <ali1234> i just watched asa raskin's video about interaction seduction on google tech talks
[21:43] <ali1234> i think whoever designed unity should be forced to watch it over and over again until they make something actually good
[21:47] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuELwq2ThJE&feature=player_detailpage#t=864s
[21:49] <ali1234> that really hits home with me
[21:49] <ali1234> because the exact same thing is true of the old gnome panel
[21:49] <ali1234> someone posted that screenshot where they had so many windows that you couldn't read any of the items on the window list
[21:49] <ali1234> but it's OK because the minimize effect shows you approximately where it is
[21:50] <ali1234> but with unity, you get one icon for all the windows, you click it, and then it shows all the windows in random positions on the screen, and you have to manually examine each one to find the one you want
[21:50] <ali1234> and then you have to minimize all the others after, because it unminimizes everything for some reason
[21:50] <ali1234> so while it looks cool it's actually far harder to use if you have a large number of windows
[21:51] <ali1234> and i already find myself just opening a new window instead of looking for the old one, because it's so difficult and annoying
[21:51] <ali1234> so then there is a positive feedback loop
[22:26] <popey> ali1234: i completely agree
[22:29] <ali1234> popey: with which thing?
[22:29]  * daubers ponders hot chocolate
[22:29] <ali1234> popey: were you able to use gtk-recordmydesktop under natty?
[22:29] <ali1234> because i can't get it to work
[22:29] <popey> nope
[22:29] <ali1234> it just freezes on 0% when encoding the video
[22:30] <popey> well, yes, but the stupid drop shadow messes it up
[22:30] <ali1234> ah the stupid drop shadow
[22:30] <popey> mine encodes okay
[22:30] <popey> yes
[22:30] <ali1234> i have turned that off
[22:30] <ali1234> it didn't fix the slowness though
[22:30] <popey> howd you turn it off?
[22:30] <ali1234> hey is there like, a unity lens for launchpad bugs?
[22:30] <ali1234> cos that would be really handy
[22:30] <popey> btw I agreed with your points about clicking to find windows
[22:31] <ali1234> to turn it off you go into /usr/share/themes/Ambiance/metacity-1
[22:31] <ali1234> and edit the metacity-1-*.xml
[22:31] <ali1234> and find the line with "shadow"
[22:31] <ali1234> and set it to 0
[22:31] <popey> great, thanks
[22:31] <ali1234> set radius to 0
[22:31] <popey> does that kill all shadows?
[22:31] <ali1234> no only the massive ones
[22:32] <ali1234> you still get the small ones that every theme has
[22:32] <popey> the panel one is the one I am most bothered by
[22:32] <ali1234> oh it doesn't appear to do anything about that one
[22:32] <popey> which is oddly done as a png overlaid
[22:32] <ali1234> it's just the huge 45 pixel ones around normal windows
[22:33] <ali1234> i only turned it off because i thought it caused but 769605
[22:33] <ali1234> bug 769605
[22:34]  * popey subscribes
[22:34] <ali1234> but it turns out it wasn't that
[22:35] <ali1234> check the youtube video :)
[22:35] <popey> wow
[22:36]  * popey goes to reproduce that
[22:38] <popey> how do you force glxgears to do vblank?
[22:38] <popey> er, vsync, ykwim
[22:39] <popey> confirmed
[22:40] <ali1234> turn vsync on/off with nvidia settings
[22:40] <popey> ah, ok
[22:40] <ali1234> when it's off, glxgears reports 6000 fps but only manages to update the screen about about 1fps
[22:41] <ali1234> even when the window is tiny
[22:41] <ali1234> but that's a different bug
[22:41] <ali1234> the fact that light-themes runs into the same problem just demonstrates how resource intensive it is compared to the other themes
[22:43] <ali1234> all of this is probably related to crappy nvidia driver as well
[22:43] <popey> yeah, its got worse recently
[22:43] <ali1234> for example, the firefox/launchpad bug
[22:44] <ali1234> it's all the same root cause
[22:44] <ali1234> certain operations seem to be very slow on nvidia
[22:44] <ali1234> intel graphics has no problem rendering launchpad despite being slower hardware
[22:45] <ali1234> i would test with nouveau but it doesn't work on my card (gt240)
[22:45] <ali1234> i get no acceleration at all
[22:45] <gord> its some 2d cairo stuff, goes really slow in nvidia
[22:45] <ali1234> and even then it can't render things right
[22:45] <gord> nvidia only really care about 3d
[22:45] <ali1234> yeah
[22:46] <gord> sooo hopefully, 3d cairo backends solve everything
[22:46] <gord> eta 2030
[22:46] <ali1234> *i* only care about 3d, that's why i bought a nvidia card
[22:46] <hamitron> nvidia care? :-o
[22:46] <ali1234> so i don't appreciate it much when the UI prevents me from running 3d apps because it's so resource intensive
[22:47] <ali1234> and especially when the fancy accelerated UI is actually worse to use even when it's working at full speed
[22:48] <ali1234> but of course it isn't entirely down to compiz/unity as simply changing the theme makes it a lot better
[23:01] <ali1234> under natty's version of pidgin everyone's nick is a different colour
[23:02] <ali1234> anybody else noticed that?
[23:02] <gord> didn't it do that before? seems like a standard feature
[23:02] <ali1234> no
[23:02] <ali1234> i just had this conversation in #pidgin
[23:02] <matti> ;]
[23:02] <ali1234> they were all different colours before
[23:02] <ali1234> now they are all *different* different colours
[23:02] <gord> ah
[23:02] <matti> Is anyone selling his netbook? ;]
[23:03] <ali1234> gord: so for example you were dark blur in maverick, now you are orange
[23:03] <ali1234> *blue
[23:03] <gord> maybe the seed changed
[23:03] <gord> i prefer orange anyway :)
[23:04] <ali1234> some people are still the same colour
[23:04] <ali1234> like lubotu3
[23:06] <matti> Nobody? :<
[23:06] <ali1234> matti: look on ebay
[23:06] <ali1234> you can get netbooks for very cheap
[23:06] <matti> Hah ;]
[23:06] <ali1234> like £60
[23:06] <matti> RLY?
[23:06] <ali1234> yes
[23:06] <matti> ZOMG.
[23:06] <matti> ;]
[23:06] <ali1234> like acer aspire one
[23:07] <ali1234> it will be "sold as seen" though
[23:07] <ali1234> i bought one that was listed as broken, when i got it it worked fine
[23:07] <popey> broken because it had Leeenux on it? :)
[23:07] <ali1234> i was going to use it for parts but i gave it to my mother instead, with ubuntu unr on it
[23:07] <matti> Hehe
[23:07] <ali1234> popey: no it was a windows xp one
[23:08] <ali1234> fun fact:
[23:08] <ali1234> the linux aao has a different keyboard with a different logo on the "windows keys"
[23:08] <ali1234> but the keyboard is actually totally different
[23:08] <popey> heh
[23:08] <ali1234> not just different printing
[23:08] <ali1234> and the windows one is *much* nicer to type on
[23:08] <popey> also fun fact: the on screen keyboard in ubuntu has a windows key labelled "Win"
[23:08] <ali1234> the linux one has spongy keys, the windows one has a nice click to it
[23:09] <matti> ali1234: THere are different types of the same model.
[23:09] <ali1234> so yeah... the cost of the OS isn;t the only reason the linux version is cheaper :(
[23:09] <ali1234> matti: there are multiple types of AAO yes
[23:09] <gord> huh, that should be changed to meta for consistency i guess
[23:09] <gord> although meta, sucks, as a name
[23:09] <matti> ali1234: Windows ones were a little bit more up spec-wise. IIRC.
[23:10] <popey> gord: AlanBell has an ffe filed for changing it to an ubuntu logo
[23:10] <ali1234> matti: they have 1GB ram soldered on the MB instead of 512MB
[23:10] <gord> i don't like that either =\
[23:10] <ali1234> and this one had the SSD instead of harddrive
[23:10] <gord> would prefer the windows key over that, at least people know what that is
[23:10] <ali1234> but the board itself is the same, and they keyboard is identical in size
[23:10] <matti> OMG
[23:10] <ali1234> the case is slightly different to fit the larger harddrive
[23:11] <matti> Nothing gets on my nerves like losing rubber ear pags for my in-ear ones.
[23:11] <matti> ;/
[23:11] <ali1234> but i could have just swapped over the keyboards
[23:11] <matti> And it is always the right one.
[23:11] <matti> Bah! Universe! I will get you for this one, again!!!
[23:11] <matti> ;]
[23:11] <Laney> good evening
[23:12] <matti> ali1234: Shame that I am not an Apple person.
[23:12] <matti> ali1234: 10" MBA is really nice
[23:12] <matti> ali1234: But > 1000 GBP easily.
[23:12] <matti> ali1234: I am not crazy yte ;]
[23:12] <matti> yet*
[23:12]  * popey hugs his mbp
[23:13] <popey> despite the ubuntu keyboard layout on it being mentally broken
[23:13] <Laney> i just use the standard uk layout
[23:13] <Laney> ¬!"£$%^&*()_+
[23:13] <gord> i got me a dinovo edge the other day, nicest thing i have ever typed on ever
[23:14] <matti> popey: MBP? How is the battery life on Linux? Still holding?
[23:15] <popey> not as good as OSX
[23:15] <popey> bed time!
[23:15] <Laney> I get 4+ hours
[23:15] <matti> Night night
[23:15] <Laney> which is perfectly good enuf
[23:16] <matti> ;]
[23:16] <Laney> never used osx on it for long enough to find out how long a full charge is. :-)
[23:16] <Laney> ignorance is bliss
[23:17] <matti> I have no choice at work.
[23:18] <matti> Huge Apple house as my boss like them.
[23:18] <matti> I took me a while to get used to OS X ...
[23:18] <matti> Bad Linux habits die hard ;p
[23:18] <matti> Hehe
[23:19] <matti> And I keep hitting CMD + Q all the time -- as CTRL is in the same spot on my notebook ;]
[23:19] <Laney> can't install ubuntu on it?
[23:23] <matti> Not allowed
[23:32] <ali1234> ok i figured out why recordmydesktop fails
[23:32] <ali1234> it doesn't like recording more than 1920x1080
[23:32] <ali1234> and my desktop is 3200x1200
[23:33] <hamitron> just greedy ;)
[23:34] <ali1234> global menu doesn't work properly with it
[23:34] <ali1234> so i can't make a video demonstrating exactly why it sucks
[23:35] <ali1234> well i could but i'd have to use my mobile phone to record it
[23:35] <ali1234> and so i'd have to build a rig to hold it and blah blah blah
[23:35] <AlanBell> or use the record a selected area feature
[23:35] <ali1234> AlanBell: i did, but global menu doesn't redraw correctly
[23:35] <ali1234> hang on i'll upload the video
[23:36] <ali1234> hmm does global menu work in classic mode through the panel widget?
[23:36] <ali1234> i could do that i guess
[23:36] <AlanBell> not sure
[23:37] <AlanBell> I am not a big fan of the global menu
[23:37] <AlanBell> did you say the shadow is 45px?
[23:37] <ali1234> yes
[23:37] <ali1234> the shadow around the focussed window that is
[23:37] <ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/out-1.ogv
[23:37] <AlanBell> it is apparently 40px on OS X
[23:38] <AlanBell> so it is totally not true that Ubuntu is just copying OS X, we are going 5 better \o/
[23:38] <ali1234> see if you can figure out what's going on in the video
[23:38] <ali1234> it's kind of hard when the menu doesn't redraw properly
[23:38] <ali1234> it doesn't do that "in real life"
[23:40] <AlanBell> well that sucks
[23:40] <ali1234> popey: btw, for screen recording, i highly recommend motu a/v products. unfortunately they don't work on linux.
[23:41] <gord> nothing makes you feel like a toddler than falling up stairs :(
[23:41] <AlanBell> ali1234: so something is stealing focus when you go to the global menu sometimes
[23:41] <ali1234> AlanBell: not exactly
[23:42] <ali1234> AlanBell: what happens is i "miss" the menu bar
[23:42] <ali1234> and focus goes to the desktop
[23:42] <ali1234> this happens about 50% of the time when i try to use global menu
[23:42] <ali1234> also after copying i have to move the mouse all the way across the screen to select the other window, then all the way back to the menu bar
[23:42] <ali1234> and then i "miss" it again
[23:42] <ali1234> and then i have to do it all again
[23:43] <ali1234> without global menu this operation would require 4 clicks
[23:43] <ali1234> and moving the mouse across the screen 1 time only, towards a target that i can see
[23:43] <AlanBell> or select text, move, middle click
[23:43] <AlanBell> but that isn't really the point, I know
[23:43] <ali1234> with global menu it takes 5 clicks and i have to move across the screen 3 times
[23:44] <ali1234> that's assuming i don't miss
[23:44] <gord> counting things is never a good metric i find
[23:44] <ali1234> if i miss i have to start the whole tiresome thing over
[23:44] <AlanBell> how do I start a second gedit without using the command line
[23:44] <ali1234> middle click
[23:44] <ali1234> i only ever use middle click on the launch now
[23:44] <ali1234> because when i left click on it, one of two annoying things happens:
[23:45] <ali1234> 1. a bunch of windows i don't want to see appears and clutter up the screen
[23:45] <AlanBell> oh, the whole thing is freaking out and won't start new applications
[23:45] <ali1234> 2. i get taken to another desktop where i don't want to be
[23:45] <ali1234> it seems to be random which one actually happens
[23:46] <ali1234> now i hardly ever switch between windows, i just close them instead of minimizing them
[23:46] <ali1234> it's easier than trying to use the window switcher
[23:46] <ali1234> but i find i'm spending a lot longer waiting for firefox to load up
[23:46] <AlanBell> I really can't start a second gedit
[23:46] <ali1234> well it works for me
[23:47] <gord> AlanBell, what happens? details
[23:47] <ali1234> oh hang on
[23:47] <ali1234> those other gedits are in the video i just recorded, which went full screen
[23:47] <AlanBell> gord: it just brings the existing gedit to the front
[23:47] <gord> AlanBell, with middle click?
[23:47] <AlanBell> yup
[23:47] <gord> is this some weird mouse that doesn't do middle click correctly or somthing?
[23:48] <ali1234> sorry, maximized, not fullscreen
[23:48] <ali1234> and it's really hard to tell because a maximized window has no title bar
[23:48]  * AlanBell selects text and middle clicks and gets pasted stuff
[23:49] <AlanBell> if I type some stuff in the window then middleclick gedit in the launcher it opens a new tab in gedit
[23:49] <gord> ah, its a gedit thing
[23:49] <ali1234> ah got it
[23:49] <gord> has it self set to open new tabs instead of new instances
[23:49] <ali1234> with gedit, middle click only works if there isn't already a gedit ovisible on the screen
[23:49] <ali1234> if they are all minimized or on different workspaces it works
[23:49] <AlanBell> hmm ok
[23:49] <ali1234> if there's a gedit visible, middle click does nothing
[23:50] <ali1234> totally not confusing at all
[23:50] <AlanBell> well with two tabs open in gedit I can drag one out of the gedit window to separate it into two windows
[23:50] <gord> you had me scared that we had screwed up "detecting a middle click" for a minute then AlanBell, please don't do that a week before release :)
[23:50] <ali1234> yes
[23:50] <ali1234> middle click definitely works for "some" applications
[23:50] <ali1234> some others have a right click context menu
[23:50] <AlanBell> middle click does nothing if you have an empty document in gedit already, it creates an empty document if there is a populated document
[23:50] <ali1234> it's all very inconsistent and annoying
[23:51] <AlanBell> yeah, I want more in the right click menu
[23:51] <gord> to play the blame game, its not unitys fault
[23:51] <ali1234> seems like there's a large amount of special case code in there somewhere
[23:51] <gord> all we do is execute a desktop file
[23:51] <gord> AlanBell, you can add stuff yourself to the right click menus! its fun! (i wrote that code ;))
[23:52] <ali1234> so where does the "open new window" right click menu option for firefox come from?
[23:52] <ali1234> being able to add stuff myself sounds... interesting
[23:52] <gord> look in the firefox .desktop file - we use desktop actions
[23:52] <ali1234> like, can i add... a list of the open windows? so i can go directly to a minimized window without cluttering up all the display with all the other windows of that type?
[23:52] <gord> you can basically add anything that you could put in a .desktop file normally
[23:53] <gord> no, sorry, nothing dynamic like that unless you are willing to write something in the programs code base that talks to libunity to add dynamic quicklist items
[23:53] <ali1234> well
[23:54] <ali1234> why would it be necessary to add it to all programs?
[23:54] <ali1234> why can't it be programmed into unity?
[23:54] <gord> you could certainly write a patch to unity to do it
[23:54] <ali1234> pretty much anything would be better than the expose thing
[23:55] <gord> i wouldn't accept a patch that did that myself though, unless design got involved, just to keep the codebase clean
[23:55] <ali1234> i'd make it d it on left click
[23:55] <gord> design are very willing to change things, you should bring things up with them :) specially as UDS is coming
[23:55] <ali1234> instead of making it do something random like go to another desktop or fill the screen with 100s of identical windows
[23:56] <ali1234> i'd make it slide out a list of all the windows of that type, in the order they were opened
[23:56] <AlanBell> hmm, so click on my gedit icon with two gedit windows and I get them both zoomed out, click the gedit icon again and nothing happens, they don't zoom back again
[23:56] <AlanBell> like they did in 10.10
[23:56] <ali1234> AlanBell: yeah
[23:56] <ali1234> AlanBell: try right clicking
[23:56] <ali1234> then you can go back
[23:57] <AlanBell> and get a bonus menu
[23:57] <gord> sigh really?
[23:57] <ali1234> yeah, right click, then left click somewhere else
[23:57] <gord> i did the launcher last cycle  t
[23:57] <gord> but not this one
[23:57] <AlanBell> I do like the two dots on the left of the launcher icon, better than the triangle in 10.10
[23:57] <gord> need to write up a list of regressions
[23:57] <ali1234> basically once you left click on unity there's no going back, your windows are messed up, and you want to switch to classic immediately, every time
[23:57] <ali1234> but i will persevere
[23:58] <ali1234> i think the problem here is that nobody except unity developers can actually tell the difference between regressions and bad design decisions :(
[23:59] <AlanBell> little harsh perhaps, but I can think of examples