[00:00] like the grid thing where you have two windows side by side [00:00] and a 45px shadow of the active one on the other one [00:00] it was interesting to read they had done a evaluation session with normal people a week or two ago, most of the things normal people had hit were things that people on +1 had been saying since the early alphas [00:00] +1 on getting rid of that, but there are only so many hours in the day [00:00] is that a good thing or a bad thing? I can't tell [00:01] wait until the actual report of the user testing comes out penguin42 [00:01] what everyone read was not the actual report... that will be presented at UDS [00:01] gord: Ah ok, some of the things said in it though were very much things had been saying for months [00:02] the "12 testers" email? [00:02] yeh [00:02] i hit almost every problem mentioned in that on a regular basis [00:02] even the "menu editor doesn't work" one [00:03] that was the first thing i tried [00:03] the funky new scrollbars are interesting [00:03] i think a lot of the time people don't understand the workflow involved, its not a case of "complain, fix" in the same cycle, we engineer software in six months cycles, so thinks sometimes get deferred to the next cycle - just give it time if you are having problems [00:03] guess what... i don't like them [00:03] I actually think they made a decent stab at those for a first attemp [00:03] attempt [00:03] you can't tell if a window is scrolled to the bottom if it's not focussed because it's too pale [00:03] yeah they are not bad [00:03] gord: Some stuff was visible at least 2 months back, early enough to be changeable if it was really bad [00:03] changing to human theme actually fixes that issue [00:04] better than I had expected them to be [00:04] yeah i agree [00:04] just need to be more visible in the default theme [00:04] AlanBell: I'm surprised that a change to something like that has appeared so late in the cycle [00:04] a few focus issues and things like click and hold on the clicky scroll bit would be good [00:05] click and hold? [00:05] hmm just noticed my gnome terminal is still using the old scoll bars but pidgin is using the new ones - I wonder what determines it [00:05] penguin42: it was sabdfled in, he gets to make one dramatic last minute change in every release [00:05] blacklist [00:05] not everything works perfectly [00:05] ali1234: if you go over the scrollbar handle you can click repeatedly to move it up and down in steps [00:06] can't click and hold [00:06] ah yeah [00:06] only thing that bugs me about them is when i maximise banshee, my scrollbar is now a few tiny tiny orange pixels that i can barely see on the right of my scrollbar [00:06] i never do that [00:06] right of my menu even [00:06] click and hold tends to make it scroll way to far [00:06] AlanBell: Click& hold just worked for me on the thing that appears (erm for want of a name the zipper) [00:06] what i *do* like to do, on very long scrollbars, is move the pointer to the approx location, then click click click util i get to that general area [00:07] but i can't do that any more [00:07] you can! [00:07] how? [00:08] drag the zipper to the approx location, then it will stay still and you can click on the top and bottom half of it [00:08] that's not the same [00:08] i'l make a video [00:08] yeah its not the same [00:09] you know where you want, so you put your pointer there, then click until the scrollbar jumps up to your location [00:09] right [00:09] oh, I see what you mean [00:10] then when the bar arrives you can adjust it finely without moving the mouse much at all [00:10] http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/scrollbar.ogv [00:11] yeah, OK, I never got into that habit but I can see the value [00:11] i never got into the habit of click and hold :) [00:12] since it seems to queue up scrolls faster than it actually scrolls, then when you release it keeps on scrolling for ages [00:12] i hate that [00:12] me either, click and hold requires you to know where you are now (rare for me) then move to where you want to go, rather than just knowing where you want to go [00:12] right "knowing where you want to go" is the big issue with all of this [00:13] i know approximately where the window is on the window list in gnome panel, even if there's hundreds of windows, partly becuase of the minimize animation and partly because i just remember [00:13] but with unity i can't go directly to it, i have to go through the expose thing, which shows windows in a random place each time [00:13] so i can't even remember it [00:14] hmm another bug [00:15] uninstalling applications doesn't remove the icon from the dash [00:15] until you restart [00:15] that one reported? [00:17] wow i just hit another bug while trying to report that one [00:17] it might not be reported but its certainly known, just non trivial to fix [00:18] firefox won't accept focus [00:18] input goes to the previously focussed window [00:18] portal 2 should be renamed "hey lets make gord look stupid: the game" [00:18] although a cursor appears in firefox and not the previous window [00:19] aw now i lost the bug report URL because i had to close the window [00:20] hmm so in the UK there's only 3 working days until natty is supposed to launch, right? [00:20] cos of the bank holiday and the wedding? [00:21] so what percentage of unity developers are in the UK? [00:21] there are two of us [00:21] the kind of bugs you are talking about won't be fixed [00:21] only SRU's - which are rare [00:22] yeah [00:22] so what kind of bug would be fixed? crashes? [00:23] crashers that affect a large number of people [00:23] basically anything that would block release [00:24] so being unable to type in firefox won't be fixed? [00:25] i have no idea, focus issues are not unity bugs [00:29] i haven't run into any major crashes yet so that's good [00:29] no sound problems with pulseaudio either [00:29] i might actually be able to use it now [00:29] it's only been a day though, sometimes it takes a few days for that one to happen [00:32] ali1234: You can't type in ff? [00:33] penguin42: sometimes [00:33] ali1234: All of firefox or just flash? [00:33] all of firefox [00:33] actually it was a launchpad bug report page [00:33] the whole window refuses focus [00:33] although the text input box displays a flashing cursor [00:33] typing anything appears in the previously focussed window [00:33] odd [00:34] also the window border remains grey and the previous focussed window shows as focussed still [00:35] i'm going to have to make a folder on my webpage just for natty bugs, putting everything in "random" is filling it up too much [00:35] ali1234: Unity seems to do something where if an app isn't responding it gets greyed out and doesn't take focus - not sure how it classifies the not responding ness [00:36] compiz [00:36] no, not that type of grey [00:36] i mean just the window border [00:36] it's a lot easier to notice if you use human theme [00:37] what package should i report this against? http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/natty/indicator.png [00:37] unity, it'll get triaged [00:42] ok. you know the "drag to screen edge to maximize/half-maximize" thing? bugs with that should go to compiz? [00:42] seems to affect classic as well [00:42] YES [00:42] yes [01:08] bugs are coming in thick and fast on launchpad... [01:09] when is release day? [01:09] 28th? [01:10] yeah [01:18] hey apparently my youtube account is now enabled for uploads of longer than 15 minutes [01:18] i might have mentioned this before actually [01:32] i just discovered something [01:33] i can actually use global menu if i pretend i'm using amiga workbench and hold the right mousebutton down to access it [01:33] i wonder if i can make a hack to prevent RMB from changing window focus [01:33] and also unhide the menu [01:33] then it would be almost exactly the same [06:04] Is ther any way to compress jpg image files and .mp3 files? [06:06] they're already compressed [06:07] (and "lossy" - some information was removed to make the file smaller) [06:07] (if you do that twice, it'll look/sound very bad) [06:19] * ball agrees [06:30] (fwiw) [07:51] MartijnVdS: indeed! [07:51] Just got myself the new humble bundle pack :) [07:51] time for some game time me thinks :) [07:51] * MartijnVdS is skipping this one [07:51] heh why? [07:52] I tend to not play the games [07:56] none of them at all? [07:56] or just games in general? [07:56] I try them once.. then don't play them anymore [07:56] most games [07:57] Sometimes I re-play games.. but not often [08:00] happy egg day everyone [08:00] happy eggs to you too AlanBell :) [08:07] AlanBell: same to you :) [08:07] and to all :) [08:28] Moo. [08:29] bad guys in movies serious need to learn how to shoot xD [08:29] hah, which movie? [08:30] Cop Out [08:31] just saw it in the bargain bin in tescos last night === myrtti is now known as Myrtti [09:06] hi all. anyone about [09:06] * BigRedS is [09:06] good morning! [09:06] anyone know much about firefox? got a problem with it [09:06] I know a bit about firefox, too [09:07] You could just ask the question... :) [09:08] what it is, when i click on firefox and the yahoo page opens, when i try to search for something, what happens is when i type the letters seem to delete themselves and i have to type it again. the only way i get round this is to open firefox, wait a few seconds, then type something. any ideas? [09:08] that is yahoo writing bad javascript [09:08] they are tring to do some kind of typeahead stuff I expect [09:09] god knows but its only recently its been happening [09:10] hello all === serial is now known as Guest67677 [09:13] jonsaint: try disabling javascript [09:13] * BigRedS uses NoScript, but I do live in the '90s too [09:48] Morning [09:51] g'morning [10:32] good morning everyone, [10:36] hi brobostigon [10:37] 10:31:29 [Freenode] -!- #*** Cannot join channel (+j) - throttle exceeded, try again later [10:37] whatdoes that error mean? [10:37] hi jibadeeha [10:38] brobostigon, dunno too many people in the channel? [10:39] jibadeeha: weird, maybe. [10:39] brobostigon, which channel was it? [10:39] jibadeeha: #wrongplanet [10:39] brobostigon, seems to let me in [10:40] jibadeeha: let me try again. [10:41] jibadeeha: i just tried again, the tthird time, and it llet me in. [10:42] must be less people in now [10:42] someone told me, 20people now, including me. [10:42] 120* [10:46] maybe it's a number of people/minute joining? [10:46] that they limit [10:46] (to stop bots from overcrowding) [10:47] MartijnVdS: that makes sense,yes. [11:16] Hi, where did the volume control icon go from the top bar, after an update the other day, it went. I cant find it anywhere. [11:17] scoundrel50a: sometimes things fall off the panel [11:17] you can add them again by right clicking on it and choosing "add to panel..." [11:17] there's a volume control thingy in there [11:18] I looked in there, its tnot there [11:18] scoundrel50a: it's part of the same thing as the network manager: the indicator [11:20] I can see the Wireless indicator for the network manager, but the vol;ume control has gone, so how do I get it back? [11:21] Did you get a dialog about "indicator-sound" crashing? [11:21] try logging out and back in [11:22] ok, will try [11:22] I dont remember getting a sound, and a box certainly didnt come up reminding me that happened, brb [11:26] ok, nothing showed that there was fault or error when I logged out and back again. One thing, the icons for opened programs, they appear next to the wireless indicator, I closed them all down, but still the volume control doesnt appear, can I make it that those icons appear somewhere else? [11:29] scoundrel50a: uhrm.. which version of Ubuntu are you using? Opened programs appear in the bottom bar. [11:30] 10.10 and as far as I can remember they alwaysn appeared uop there [11:30] how do I get them to appear in the bottom bar then [11:30] scoundrel50a: are you using a derivative, like Xubuntu or Kubuntu? [11:30] no [11:30] !panel [11:31] !resetpanels [11:31] To reset the GNOME panel to defaults, type this in a !terminal: « gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel » [11:31] scoundrel50a: ^ you could try that (it'll reset the panels to the default) [11:31] ok, will give that a go [11:32] do I have to add the arrows at the beginning and end as well? [11:32] No [11:32] start with "gconftool", end with "gnome-panel" [11:32] the && are needed [11:33] ah, the volume button came back, [11:33] brilliant, but the icons for open programs dissappeared, [11:34] scoundrel50a: bottom bar [11:34] nope, they appear at the top again, just opened drop box, and it moved the wireless icon [11:34] ah those aren't icons for open programs [11:34] those are indicators [11:34] List of open programs really is at the bottom [11:36] ah, sorry didnt know what they were called, can you move them, it looks like that might have been the problem before with the lost volume control, it muct have hidden it [11:38] ah,just tried to move it, by right click move, to discover its in a sort of cluster, with the icon for drop box and the envelope for setting up a broadcast account. [11:38] and when I move, the three move together [11:38] yes, all the indicators move together :) [11:38] so can I put the indicators on the bottom pannel? [11:38] panel* sorry [11:39] if you want to [11:39] how do I do that? [11:39] right-click, select "move" [11:40] then move your mouse to the bottom [11:40] ok, justb did it, left click, move and I took the curser to the bottom panel and they are down there now [11:40] right click rsorr [11:41] thank you, bad day today, got bad headache so having problems seeing the typos [11:41] I now locked the, to panel, hopefully wont loose the volum control now === willy1978 is now known as willy1977 [11:42] um I use xchat, how do i get it to show check spelling as you type? [11:42] no idea [11:42] * daubers has reached the stage in aproject where he just wants to start using the blasted thing and not have to faff around with lots of html nonsense [11:43] daubers: i.e. you've done "framework_tool create projectname"? :) [11:44] MartijnVdS: Bit further than that :) The first type of data can now be added quite happily. Need to do the other 2 now [11:44] well, thank you for getting my volume control back, huge help. :) [11:45] MartijnVdS: https://code.launchpad.net/~daubers/+junk/WarhammerDB but shhhhhh... it's not finished yet [11:47] daubers: you're a warhammerer then? :) [11:47] MartijnVdS: As of January [11:48] I've got Guardsmen coming out of my ears now, and needed some way to keep track of what I can field [11:48] The aim is to be able to generate army lists with all the related special rules/weapons and stuff for each list as a quick reference [11:49] If I can find somewhere that sells packs of blank playing cards on an a4 sheet, then that would be a perfect method of printing them [11:49] can't you just use 180g paper? [11:50] (or heavier, but my laser printer doesn't work with >180g) [11:51] I could, but means lots of faff cutting them out :) [11:51] daubers: http://www.4office.be/images2/00569.jpg [11:52] true [11:52] Not got quite that far yet though [11:52] * MartijnVdS goes outside to take pictures of.. outsidey..ness [12:52] a hoy hoy [12:52] good afternoon danfish [12:55] o/ brobostigon [12:56] o/ [12:57] o/ danfish [13:03] I had great ambitions for the weekend in terms of projects, but the good weather had put me into a state of 'meh' [13:04] but I did get the arduino's installed [13:08] danfish: oh? [13:13] daubers: nothing too exciting - a bunch of old PC fans connected to a 12v battery and solar panel to ventilate the greenhouse and a solenoid valve to turn on the watering [13:16] swanky [13:16] I've been designing very small things and very big things (1st for me, second for work) [13:17] very small things are plastic buildings with lights that change colour based on some LDR's being blocked (arduino nano powered \o/ [13:17] very big thing is a 3U server chassis :-( [13:19] * daubers wonders if B&Q has their wood cutting service open today [13:19] sounds good cool - fancy doing something arduinoey at oggcamp? [13:19] danfish: Could do [13:19] danfish: Got a million and one projects noted down to do at some point with arduinos :) [13:21] danfish: Also, I do have a half complete arduino project I started for someone else to do with flyballing [13:23] flyballing? [13:23] my task today, is converting my dads equations, into c++,for an arduino project. [13:24] danfish: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyball [13:24] Building some timing gates and a control system for them [13:26] daubers: cool [13:26] brobostigon: what's the project? [13:26] danfish: car hydrolaulic/hydrostatic controls. [13:28] wow, fairly 'mission critical' then [13:30] danfish: yes, https://code.launchpad.net/~hydraulic-hybrid that is my current progress, fairly simple right now, i have alot to add. [13:33] brobostigon: Going to give a talk on it at Oggcamp? [13:33] daubers: i havent manged to get tickets, in truth. [13:33] daubers: i could do. [13:34] brobostigon: Might be worth popping popey and co and email to find out about ticketing things [13:34] brobostigon: at least you've got the code up on t'internet - I am *so* behind on in that respect [13:35] danfish: yes, i will do that, [13:36] danfish: it was/is simply a way of version control, and allowance for people to view said code, [13:37] daubers: you think it would be worth it? [13:37] brobostigon: More than likely. I know quite a few code heads who are car bonkers too [13:38] daubers: ah, interesting. [13:38] I think all the "Alans" have had car problems recently :( [13:38] This is why I reckon we should have a code "open house" thing [13:39] daubers: interesting idea. [13:39] There are all kinds of intersting projects going on that people don't publish === tubadaz_ is now known as tubadaz_away [13:39] daubers: i insist on publishing it, as iwant everything, to be as OSS as possible, hw and sw, from the start. [13:40] danfish: Don't suppose you know of any good PCB printing houses [13:40] brobostigon: Cool :) [13:40] ooh - i've called my home automation project "openhome". A pythonical beast. [13:41] daubers: sorry, no [13:41] danfish: yes, :) [13:41] danfish: :) [13:43] hmmm... need about Â£70 worth of mdf :( [13:44] multi-dimentional fabric? [13:44] multi density fibreboard [13:46] right, time to walk round to the inlaws for Easter Meal - laters! [13:46] bye danfish o/ === tubadaz_away is now known as tubadaz_ === tubadaz_ is now known as tubadaz [14:03] :) [14:06] hmmm [14:07] anyone know if you can use the onboard graphics of the h55 chipset, alongside a dedicated graphics card? [14:09] oh, found the answer [14:09] "yes"? [14:09] you can't [14:09] :/ [14:10] hamitron: my BIOS has an option for it [14:10] oh [14:10] hamitron: (Asus P7H55-M PRO) [14:10] maybe I should look closer then [14:10] rather than listen to intel [14:10] I'm not using a plug-in card atm (don't have any to try) [14:10] let me double-check [14:12] Allows you to select which graphics controller to use as the primary boot device. [14:12] Configuration options: [iGPU] [PCI/iGPU] [PCI/PEG] [PEG/iGPU] [PEG/PCI] [14:12] PEG/iGPU is what you'd want [14:12] (PCI Express + GPU on i3/i5) [14:13] cool [14:13] half tempted to try it [14:13] (this is my ASUS manual, other brands/types might have different options available) [14:14] I was forced to tidy up my workspace at home, so my manual is hidden away somewhere safe I can't find it [14:14] :/ [14:14] download the PDF :) [14:14] brand/type can be found using dmidecode [14:15] I know the model [14:15] :) [14:15] will see later, not a huge worry this second [14:15] I just scared myself though [14:15] I have 1 comp turned on, and it runs windows 7 [14:16] and I am reasonably happy [14:16] awwww [14:16] :/ [14:18] seems I need a restart for updates anyway, will check bios out while I do that [14:18] brb [14:22] there is an option to set it to enabled when no ext PEG or enable always [14:23] that that answers that [14:23] :) [14:23] :) [14:23] now how is best to run ubuntu on the integrated, and windows on the PEG? [14:23] ;) [14:24] kvm 8-) [14:24] windows has to have proper 3d support for games [14:24] yes [14:24] a keyboard/video/mouse switch [14:24] with only the video bit connected [14:25] (two to your PC, one to your screen) [14:25] hmmm [14:25] I intend to have more than 1 display [14:25] :) [14:26] 1 PC, 2 displays and 2 video adapters [14:26] and 2 OS [14:30] vbox supports it [14:30] \o/ [14:31] ah ffs, need another restart, brb [14:39] tbh, bit pointless [14:39] may as well just have multiple machines [14:40] then each has proper drivers, acceleration and its own memory [14:57] Heh [14:57] HSBC decided to send my new debit card to a _my_branch_. [14:57] Which is in Honiton in .Devon [14:57] * matti gives up on humanity today ;) [15:14] :/ [15:15] matti: you're not there then? [15:20] MartijnVdS: No, not really ;] [15:20] MartijnVdS: I used to live there 5 years ago. [15:20] ;] [15:20] matti: and you never told them you moved away? :) [15:21] MartijnVdS: Haha, oh come on ;p [15:21] matti: well, depending on how much debt you had with them... :P [15:21] MartijnVdS: ;-p [15:22] MartijnVdS: They never let me know either about this ;] [15:22] MartijnVdS: And so I was waiting for new card to arrive in London... for little over two weeks ;p [15:24] MartijnVdS: But that's nothing ;] First Utility was billing me and my landlord for the same flat and same usage and there is only one smart meter :) [15:24] MartijnVdS: So I called them up, to resolve this... and they were trying to concinve me that it is impossible for the system to bill multiple unrelated people when single smart meter is in use ;p [15:25] MartijnVdS: And they refused to believe on the contrary ;p I had to fax bills to them ;p [15:25] wow [15:25] MartijnVdS: O2 was billing me for two more months after I cancelled my broadband service ;p [15:26] MartijnVdS: I never had so much fun with service and utility provides in my entire life ;p [15:26] I've never had problems like that [15:27] Lucky you ;p [15:27] Only thing that comes close is the mail for the previous owner of my appartment [15:28] (collection agencies understand that case though ;)) [15:28] Yeah. [15:28] MartijnVdS: When O2 was still billing me, that got upset that I don't pay -- even though they were the ones whom cancelled direct-debit in the first place. [15:29] MartijnVdS: So I had this debt collection dudes going after me. [15:29] MartijnVdS: And they were sending me a snail mail to my old place ;p [15:29] MartijnVdS: And virtually _nobody_ called me about this. [15:29] MartijnVdS: But I guess letting people know is not in their best interest ;p [15:29] Sounds like the UK is looking at Belgium for efficiency improvements [15:30] instead of the Netherlands or Germany ;) [15:30] Hahaha [15:30] MartijnVdS: In the end I had to call them up, request menagers and be grumpy. [15:31] MartijnVdS: Both of course refused to issue a formal letter stating that it was their mistake and I do not own them anything. [15:31] matti: most companies I know can only send "form letters" unless you get a REALLY high-up person [15:32] MartijnVdS: I had to be even more grumpy to get this from both O2 and the debt collectors. [15:32] MartijnVdS: They had an option -- either they send me a letter or we shall see each other in court ;] [15:32] MartijnVdS: Imagine, fsck'up like that on O2's side. [15:32] MartijnVdS: Could cost me my credit rank / score forever. [15:33] matti: Big company, hundreds of thousands (millions?) of customers.. [15:33] MartijnVdS: This is not something you let them go away with. [15:33] MartijnVdS: Sure, and I already had paperwork from solicitoris ;p [15:33] MartijnVdS: ;p [15:33] MartijnVdS: It pissed me off to that extent ;] [15:34] matti: I have insurance for that kind of thing :) [15:34] MartijnVdS: In the end I got what I wanted ;] [15:34] MartijnVdS: And how insurance would protect you from this? [15:34] * dwatkins notes that his xfs filesystem crashed yet again [15:34]