[00:00] <lcb> t-rask_, you  know one thing. most of ppl willing to help here think users are running natty with default packages and settings. when someone installs additional "effects" that could compromise unity, and worst, do not tell us/them - and if is not common- how "the hell" can one help? :/
[00:01] <t-rask_> I guarantee you I'm not the only one who upgraded from 10.10 to 11.04 :|
[00:02] <lcb> t-rask_, i never heard/saw someone here saying they lost that "item" yet.
[00:04] <micahg> t-rask_: I seem to recall a recent upload of unity removing it for some, but I don't have specifics, does it show up in the ISO?
[00:04] <penguin42> hmm, well that was an unsuccesful attempt at trying the server daily
[00:04] <JamesJRH> micahg: What do you mean?
[00:04] <micahg> JamesJRH: defaults won't change at this point, we're 4 days from release
[00:05] <JamesJRH> How do I logout?
[00:05] <JamesJRH> micahg: Ok.
[00:05] <t-rask_> micahg, you mean the Beta 2 ISO? I upgraded straight from 10.10 using update-manager -d
[00:05] <prower> well thanks for the help and the answers everyone, i think i'll just stick with 10.10 or switch back to debian if it becomes necessary :>
[00:06] <micahg> t-rask_: no, the final ISO
[00:06] <t-rask_> micahg, ISO as in .iso file?
[00:06] <micahg> t-rask_: the CD image
[00:07] <t-rask_> micahg, yeah, I never downloaded one. Like I said, I just upgraded using 'update-manager -d' and let that run its course.
[00:07] <t-rask_> I didn't download/burn any CD images.
[00:07] <lcb> t-rask_, try going to classic and add again the top panel as it were by default. with the gnome menu on the top left of the panel. this is one of the things i would do in trying to recover that functionality.
[00:08] <JamesJRH> micahg: The final iso?? What, the one that hasn't been released yet?
[00:09] <t-rask_> micahg, I just ran some updates, gonna reboot quick and try again. I'll be back.
[00:09] <micahg> JamesJRH: yep
[00:09] <JamesJRH> ?
[00:09] <JamesJRH> !
[00:09] <micahg> JamesJRH: there have been some updates since beta 2
[00:09] <micahg> JamesJRH: the ISOs are available for testing ATM, iso.qa.ubuntu.com
[00:10] <JamesJRH> micahg: Oh, you mean a nightly?
[00:10] <micahg> JamesJRH: no, the final images barring any major bugs
[00:12] <JamesJRH> micahg: So that's effectively a release candidate, right?
[00:12] <micahg> JamesJRH: err...technically maybe, but they're labeled as final
[00:15] <JamesJRH> micahg: Ah, ok. Well when I was refering to final I meant /the/ final, to be released on the 28th.
[00:15] <micahg> JamesJRH: well, that's the plan to use these unless a respin is needed
[00:16] <JamesJRH> micahg: Yeah, that sounds like RC.
[00:17] <JamesJRH> IIRC, previous releases of Ubuntu had RCs, why do they not call them that anymore?
[00:18] <micahg> JamesJRH: it's not an RC like in previous releases, it was due to the holiday weekend
[00:18] <t-rask> Does anyone know the name of the process of the Ubuntu icon in the top-left corner?
[00:19] <micahg> t-rask: it's just called "panel"
[00:19] <t-rask> micahg, I'm referring to *just* the Ubuntu icon in the top left. I have the panel, with the global menu bar, etc. Just not the Ubuntu icon.
[00:19] <BUGabundo> hey micahg
[00:19] <micahg> hi BUGabundo
[00:20] <micahg> t-rask: I ran xprop and clicked on it, it said "panel"
[00:20] <jbicha> t-rask: did you try compiz --replace
[00:21] <JamesJRH> micahg: Hey! That sounds handy! I'll have a look at xprop.
[00:21] <t-rask> jbicha, everything looks the exact same.
[00:21] <jbicha> reinstall, lol :-)
[00:22] <jbicha> how about unity --reset
[00:22] <jbicha> and you rebooted?
[00:23] <t-rask> Tried that as well as unity --reset-icons and still nothing.
[00:23] <micahg> t-rask: bug 755286
[00:24] <t-rask> micahg, my top left corner isn't blue, it's just missing the Ubuntu logo, but I'll check it out, thanks.
[00:24] <JamesJRH> micahg: Nice, xprop is really useful! :D
[00:25] <JamesJRH> How do I logout?
[00:25] <JamesJRH> Where is "Log Out..."?
[00:25] <jbicha> click the button in the far top right
[00:26] <JamesJRH> Yes, it's not there.
[00:26] <jbicha> that's also where system settings is, so remember that :-)
[00:26] <t-rask> Sigh. I suppose I'll just try downloading the ISO and upgrading that way..
[00:26] <jbicha> the on/off button next to your name?
[00:29] <JamesJRH> jbicha: Well it's not my name because I'm on the LiveCD. It has all the others, just not logout.
[00:30] <spirals> I'd just like to say that nothing is broken in my 11.04 Kubuntu except Firefox, oddly enough
[00:30] <jbicha> JamesJRH: why would you want to log out of a livecd?
[00:30] <spirals> Firefox takes dumps often but Kubuntu is looking great otherwise. Nice work *thumbs up*
[00:31] <JamesJRH> jbicha: To restart the desktop. I can do it on older LiveCDs. Gnome settings daemon has crashed.
[00:32] <JamesJRH> It restarted, but the top panel is still wrong.
[00:33] <jbicha> JamesJRH: can you Alt+F2 gnome-settings-daemon
[00:34] <penguin42> spirals: Yeh I'm running Kubuntu on ---> this machine; works quite well - I can get the Radeon driver to freak out from time to time
[00:35] <JamesJRH> jbicha: gnome-settings-daemon restarted itself before, and is already running, so this didn't do anything.
[00:36] <JamesJRH> Maybe killall gdm?
[00:38] <jbicha> JamesJRH: well you don't actually need gnome-settings-daemon to install, do you?
[00:39] <JamesJRH> Cleary someone removed logout from the LiveCD thinking no-one will need it. >:(
[00:39] <spirals> penguin42, I'm on 'radeon' also. No problems unless the firefox crashes are related - haven't tracked them down yet - I'm always running 30 tabs with flash and JS in all of them :/
[00:39] <spirals> penguin42, I'm really really loving kde 4.6 though, and kubuntu's integration in general. The bad old days of Kubuntu being a second rate KDE distro seem to be over.
[00:40] <penguin42> spirals: I tend to use Chrome, I get some annoying flash crashes but that just takes out flash and I very rarely have to nuke Chrome; the crashes I can get are typically full screen flash and then moving between virtual desktops
[00:40] <JamesJRH> Damn. I wish I had time to test some of the alphas. Too late now. :(
[00:40] <spirals> penguin42, oh yeah, full screen flash does have problems. I guess I was lumping that in with FIrefox crashes in my mind. :/
[00:40] <spirals> penguin42, however, full screen flash WAS working perfectly a couple weeks ago in 11.04, for the first time in any linux desktop that I've seen
[00:40] <spirals> I'm sure it will unbreak itself eventually :)
[00:41] <penguin42> spirals: KDE still has a few things that annoy me; I wrote a patch for LUKS mounting from dolphin (they've not taken it in yet - bah!) and some things like the virtual desktop switching isn't quite as nice as Gnome 2's which is my favorite for that
[00:42] <spirals> penguin42, I'm just amazed at the amount of zeroconfig and the improvements in the control panel. I used to have to spend ages getting Gnome to work like a modern desktop... aero snap, expose, etc... all that stuff just works out of the box in kde
[00:43] <spirals> KDE's control panel used to be a famous jungle, now it's clean and easy to find stuff
[00:43] <spirals> i could go on :) but yeah i'm a  happy camper
[00:43] <spirals> omg, and the window decorations don't look like garbage anymore
[00:43] <spirals> <3
[00:44] <preecher> is this support for 11.04?
[00:45] <JamesJRH> That's the one! 'sudo killall gdm-binary' Then hopefully gdm should respawn...
[00:46] <rww> preecher: yes
[00:48] <JamesJRH> Nope. No respawn, so 'sudo service gdm start'.
[00:48] <preecher> upgraded xubuntu from 10.10 to 11.04---unable to get mic working--internal & headset both----any suggestions
[00:48] <JamesJRH> Seems to be the /new/ way of logging out in LiveCDs!
[00:49] <JamesJRH> I remember when one could just ctrl-alt-backspace.
[00:51] <rww> For real ultimate overkill, Alt-Sysrq-K
[00:51] <penguin42> you can renable ctrl-alt-bs
[00:52] <jbicha> oh, I do sudo pkill X for that
[00:52] <JamesJRH> penguin42: I know but on a LiveCD there's no point.
[00:53] <JamesJRH> rww: I'll try that when I next need it.
[00:54] <JamesJRH> rww: So thanks.
[00:55] <MK``> When 11.04 comes out, will I be able to upgrade to the newest kernel without updating Ubuntu?
[00:58] <JamesJRH> Eh? lo-menubar isn't in USC.
[00:59] <JamesJRH> MK``: Why, is the computer offine or something?
[00:59] <penguin42> MK``: How do you mean newest kernel - newest ubuntu kernel or newest upstream?
[01:00] <MK``> the linux kernel
[01:00] <MK``> I want to update the kernel on this machine because it fixes some bugs I've been having but say I don't want to update to Ubuntu 11.04 yet :P
[01:02] <penguin42> MK``: Oh OK
[01:02] <jbicha> MK``: you might be able to use https://launchpad.net/~kernel-ppa/+archive/ppa for Lucid
[01:02] <JamesJRH> MK``: Yes, you can upgrade individual parts of your system.
[01:03] <JamesJRH> sudo apt-get install <what you want to upgrade>
[01:03] <penguin42> JamesJRH: Well that will only upgrade it from the repos set up for your current installation
[01:04] <JamesJRH> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install <what you want to upgrade>
[01:04] <rww> would involve adding natty repositories and thus falls under the "mixing versions repositories" prohibition against support
[01:04] <MK``> Yeah; I know how to add/upgrade individual things, just wanted to make sure the update feature would allow me to deselect some
[01:04] <MK``> ah, does it rww?
[01:04] <rww> MK``: adding natty's repositories to maverick and using them to upgrade just the kernel packages isn't officially supported
[01:04] <rww> maybe there's a backport package planned I don't know about. wouldn't surprise me.
[01:05] <penguin42> and it'll pull in a whole load of other pacages
[01:05] <MK``> I did not know this, thanks. I'd assume they'd backport something like the kernel of all things
[01:05] <JamesJRH> MK``: Oh. Sorry, I thought you were on a pre-release.
[01:05] <MK``> No, I am running Maverick
[01:06] <MK``> sorry for not stating that
[01:07] <JamesJRH> MK``: There are kernel updates released every few weeks.
[01:07] <JamesJRH> Or are they bug-fix updates?
[01:08] <rww> the kernel updates in the ubuntu repos? they're bug fix or security updates
[01:08] <JamesJRH> Too many numbers in kernel versions! :S
[01:08] <JamesJRH> rww: Ok.
[01:09] <MK``> The announcement for 11.04 on the website says the kernel update will add support for intel ips, which my system has, so I wanted to get that update without necessarily upgrading to 11.04 immediately :P
[01:09] <rww> I know, right. Ubuntu kernel package versioning confuses me.
[01:10] <MK``> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/natty/beta on there
[01:10] <JamesJRH> MK``: Right. You'd probably cause way more problems than you'd solve.
[01:11] <MK``> I see
[01:11] <rww> if you feel like doing unsupported kernel upgrades, the last one I used was http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[01:11] <MK``> I'd only do something with support
[01:12] <JamesJRH> MK``: The Ubuntu guys spend loads of testing on these things to make sure it all works properly. Probably not the kind of thing you'd want to do.
[01:13] <MK``> I think I was just confused as to the extent of it
[01:14] <MK``> I thought Ubuntu ran sort of "on top" of some shared linux kernel, I was not aware it is its own derivative Ubuntu kernel
[01:14] <MK``> I am new to Linux :P
[01:15] <penguin42> MK``: The ubuntu kernel has some fixes and some extra features which will find their way back to the upstream kernel
[01:16] <MK``> I see. I thought in a sense that if were not an ubuntu kernel, that ubuntu's versions would support certain versions of the kernel during support periods, etc.
[01:16] <MK``> I learned something, thanks.
[01:16] <JamesJRH> Although, Arch Linux is rolling release, so keeps up-to-date with the latest and greatest but it's quite in-depth and easy to break if your not careful. Ubuntu and Arch are my favourite distros. :)
[01:17] <MK``> So the biggest core change between versions is the kernel itself?
[01:18] <JamesJRH> There are many...
[01:18] <JamesJRH> X
[01:18] <penguin42> MK``: No, the kernel is but one part
[01:18] <JamesJRH> GCC
[01:18] <MK``> Ok. X is assumed, yeah
[01:18] <JamesJRH> See: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/natty/beta
[01:18] <MK``> But yeah I see, I'd never mix one version's kernel with another o_O that'd break stuff
[01:19] <diegoviola> hi
[01:19] <arand> Well for the purpose of testing, as you would using mainline, that is not very uncommon.
[01:19] <diegoviola> when can we expect Ubuntu to integrate Wayland?
[01:20] <penguin42> MK``: They tend to be OK but they sometimes depend on things; e.g. a newer Ubuntu may require features in the newer kernel, or a newer kernel may change something (rarer) that breaks an older ubuntu slightly
[01:20] <rww> diegoviola: a long time from now
[01:20] <rww> diegoviola: I don't think there is a definite timeline yet though.
[01:20] <diegoviola> rww: ok, but it will happen sometime in the future?
[01:20] <penguin42> anyway, bed time
[01:20] <rww> diegoviola: probably
[01:20] <cpatrick08> i was wondering if i could remove the unity dock and use a dock like cario-dock,docky,etc
[01:21] <rww> cpatrick08: switch to GNOME classic at the login screen and do it there
[01:22] <cpatrick08> oh ok would do you think it will work when gnome classic is removed in 11.10
[01:22] <MK``> diegoviola: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/551
[01:22] <diegoviola> nice
[01:22] <diegoviola> thanks guys
[01:22] <diegoviola> I really *hope* Wayland is the future
[01:23] <JamesJRH> So do I, it's great!
[01:23] <JamesJRH> :)
[01:23] <jbicha> cpatrick08: you may be able to use Gnome Fallback or XFCE for 11.10 but just wait until it gets here :-)
[01:23] <JamesJRH> Beats X by miles.
[01:23] <diegoviola> I've seen too many cases of people installing Ubuntu and other distros and then X not starting at all, and the system dropping to a console, my common sense tells me they either try again or go back to Windows, I'm sure Wayland will help with that use case.
[01:23] <cpatrick08> ok thanks
[01:24] <diegoviola> JamesJRH: yep
[01:24] <diegoviola> Wayland uses KMS and doesn't require any configuration for starting. it just works
[01:24] <JamesJRH> and X has a huge API that is rarely used.
[01:25] <diegoviola> yeah
[01:25] <JamesJRH> by modern software.
[01:25] <diegoviola> X should have been ditched a long tim eago
[01:25] <diegoviola> it's not up to current standards
[01:26] <JamesJRH> X won't be ditched when Wayland is used. Not for a while.
[01:26] <diegoviola> i'm fine with a headless X on Wayland
[01:26] <JamesJRH> X will become a Wayland client for compatibility.
[01:26] <diegoviola> I'm sure people will then port their apps to Wayland little by little
[01:26] <diegoviola> yep
[01:27] <diegoviola> people will eventually port their apps to Wayland, when they realize the benefits, etc
[01:27] <JamesJRH> Yeah, but could be a many years.
[01:27] <diegoviola> yeah
[01:28] <diegoviola> no doubt about that
[01:28] <JamesJRH> s/a //
[01:28] <MK``> I love how slow software propagation is compared to hardware advances
[01:28] <MK``> it's a strong contrast
[01:29] <robin0800> The blacklist system seems to be broken anyone seen this?
[01:29] <JamesJRH> MK``: Hmm... Yeah, now you mention it.
[01:30] <JamesJRH> MK``: IPv6. 1 decade old.
[01:30] <JamesJRH> !
[01:30] <MK``> heh
[01:31] <JamesJRH> Minimal propagation. About 2%. IPv4 address blocks were exausted a few months ago.
[01:31] <MK``> yeah I was watching it and spamming it to my friends :3
[01:32] <diegoviola> I admire Canonical/Ubuntu for breaking the mold with Wayland and for wanting to advance Linux graphics, not many others are brave enough for doing that.
[01:32] <MK``> https://twitter.com/ipv4countdown
[01:32] <diegoviola> I wish more companies and distros would do these kind of things, improve software and not just package it
[01:33] <JamesJRH> diegoviola: They do.
[01:33] <diegoviola> Linux then would advance quickly on the desktop
[01:33] <diegoviola> JamesJRH: i see
[01:34] <JamesJRH> MK``'s point about software propagation seems less obvious in the open source world.
[01:36] <JamesJRH> At least for most things.
[01:38] <MK``> My modem doesn't support IPv6 :(
[01:39] <diegoviola> there has been lots of progress on desktop Linux and Linux in general
[01:39] <diegoviola> but the transition from X to Wayland will probably be one of the biggest changes we'll have
[01:40] <diegoviola> in a long time
[01:40] <MK``> Yeah, Ubuntu crashed like 3 times the day I installed it. Almost up to MS levels! We can break the glass ceiling
[01:40] <JamesJRH> MK``: No, neither does my router or my 2 access points.
[01:41] <JamesJRH> I'm going to replace with OpenWRT supported hardware soon. :)
[01:42] <MK``> I have IPTV, I don't think I can replace my modem X)
[01:51] <SlickT10> anyone else having problems quiting programs using ctrl c in ubuntu 11.04?
[01:52] <JamesJRH> That's copy for most things. Unless your on the terminal.
[01:52] <SlickT10> JamesJRH: sorry, that is the context.
[01:53] <SlickT10> Iam running programs in the terminal and ctrl c doesn't work
[01:53] <JamesJRH> What, terminal?
[01:53] <jhjessup> The program might be trapping that key combination.
[01:54] <JamesJRH> SlickT10: ^C is keyboard interrupt. Programs often ignore it.
[01:54] <jhjessup> Try Cntl+Z and see what happens.
[01:54] <MK``> I thought it was ctrl z
[01:54] <MK``> yeah
[01:54] <JamesJRH> (Or trap it)
[01:54] <jhjessup> SlickT10: ^Z is the interpreter command to push the activce program into the background.
[01:55] <SlickT10> hmm. how to bring it back?
[01:55] <SlickT10> that is from the background
[01:55] <jhjessup> SlickT10: fg
[01:55] <SlickT10> thanks
[01:56] <JamesJRH> I thought it was '%'.
[01:56] <SlickT10> ok. its seems to be just a problem with a certain program I am using. I though it was happening elsewhere too. Thanks for the help
[01:56] <JamesJRH> jhjessup: I thought it was '%'.
[01:57] <MK``> to put it in the bg or fg?
[01:57] <jhjessup> JamesJRH: You can append an ampersand to a command (sleep 30 &) to execute the program in the background, but you can interactively send it to the background and suspend execution with ^Z.
[01:58] <MK``> heh, you keep stealing my lines jhjessup D:
[01:58] <jhjessup> MK``: Type faster ;-)
[01:59] <jhjessup> MK``: JamesJRH: I'm at the computer working on a project, and IRC is just too distracting.
[01:59] <MK``> I learned about & last night :P
[01:59] <JamesJRH> Yeah, I need to read up on job control. I've been using '%' after ^Z instead of ;fg'.
[02:00] <JamesJRH> Yeah, I need to read up on job control. I've been using '%' after ^Z instead of 'fg'.
[02:00] <jhjessup> JamesJRH: I'm not familiar with the use of %, can you elaborate?
[02:00] <MK``> what can you use to bg it without suspending it when it is already running?
[02:01] <jhjessup> MK``: I use ^Z, followed by bg
[02:01] <MK``> ah i see
[02:01] <jhjessup> MK``: There might be a more proper method, I haven't dug into it.
[02:02] <MK``> does % fg the last process?
[02:02] <JamesJRH> jhjessup: Run something, ^Z, '%', and you'll be back.
[02:02] <jhjessup> JamesJRH: It worked! Thanks!
[02:02] <jhjessup> MK``: JamesJRH's method is better.
[02:03] <MK``> Yeah I am testing it now. Sleep ftw
[02:03] <JamesJRH> :D Apparently I'm not the only one who should read up on job control. :P
[02:04] <MK``> from what I can see, % will fg the most recently backgrounded job
[02:04] <MK``> good to knoww
[02:05] <JamesJRH> I think it'll continue if you have more.
[02:05] <JamesJRH> Most recent, 2nd most recent, etc....
[02:08] <JamesJRH> Yep. Confirmed.
[02:08] <JamesJRH> It takes the top of the stack.
[02:08] <MK``> cool
[02:08] <rcconf> hi. ubuntu 10.10 network-manager feature> mac spoofing is not working with WPA. do you know if this was fixed in natty?
[02:09] <lucas-arg> i was expecting more updates by these days and ive only upgraded few times this week... isnt it weird?
[02:10] <jbicha> lucas-arg: we're in release freeze, there's not supposed to be many updates this week
[02:10] <lucas-arg> whats release freeze mena?
[02:10] <lucas-arg> mean?
[02:11] <JamesJRH> MK``: 'fg' seems to be exectly the same.
[02:12] <JamesJRH> s/exectly/exactly/
[02:12] <lucas-arg> no rc either?
[02:12] <jhjessup> lucas-arg: Basically, no updates that aren't required. I.e., bug fiø updates will be included, but new features won't be included until next release.
[02:14] <jbicha> and even bug fixes are limited until release
[02:15] <MK``> JamesJRH: % is used to signal the process, like, fg %2 will foreground the 2nd job. So, % acts like an alias for fg, which when run with no arguements runs on the most recently backgrounded
[02:15] <JamesJRH> jhjessup, MK``: Type 'fg' and '%' on a new terminal.
[02:15] <JamesJRH> [james@james-laptop ~]$ fg
[02:15] <JamesJRH> bash: fg: current: no such job
[02:15] <JamesJRH> [james@james-laptop ~]$ %
[02:15] <JamesJRH> bash: fg: %: no such job
[02:15] <MK``> :P
[02:17] <JamesJRH> Ahh.
[02:18] <lucas-arg> there is no way to make synaptic use appmenu?
[02:18] <MK``> aw, I tried to just enter & and I got "bash: syntax error near unexpected token `&'". Was hoping the terminal would try to background itself and implode the universe.
[02:21] <lucas-arg> no one knows how to make synaptic use appmenu?
[02:21] <MK``> no, sorry
[02:21] <MK``> i'm out guys, seeya later
[02:22] <JamesJRH> Bye. ;)
[02:23] <JamesJRH> lucas-arg: By "appmenu", do you mean 'global-menu'?
[02:23] <lucas-arg> JamesJRH: yes
[02:24] <lucas-arg> no root app runs ok
[02:24] <xiambax> How can i install user theme extension for gnome3 in ubuntu
[02:32] <JamesJRH> lucas-arg: Hmm... in older releases, privileged apps would use the Raleigh theme. They seem to have fix that. I think it is related.
[02:33] <JamesJRH> s/fix/fixed/
[02:33] <lucas-arg> root cant use appmenu... no app ran as root can use appmenu
[02:34] <JamesJRH> lucas-arg: They seem to have fix the /theme/ problem.
[02:35] <JamesJRH> The global-menu problem is likely related.
[02:35] <lucas-arg> JamesJRH: what do you mean by "the seem to..." I have latest updates and nothing happened yet...
[02:37] <jbicha> xiambax: https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Extensions but that particular extension didn't work for me
[02:38] <JamesJRH> lucas-arg: In older releases, privileged apps would always use the Raleigh theme. In Natty, this is fixed. Change the theme and it affects privileged apps. I'm saying that the global-menu problem seems related.
[04:13] <Hibernica> http://twitpic.com/4p7px0 & http://twitpic.com/4p7q3k : Do I file as kernel or xorg/banshee bugs?
[04:16] <iszak> So I recently upgraded to 11.04 beta (whatever the current one is, two I think) and upon login its' much slower, is there any way to detect what's slowing down login?
[04:22] <jester7> Does anyone here use Gwibber on Natty at all?
[04:22] <iszak> ha no, that's the first thing I remove.
[04:23] <aauthor> jester7: I do.
[04:29] <aauthor> Would anyone know why I can't see the google-gadgets packets in synaptic even though it a listed package for natty?  http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/packages/show/294774
[04:30] <lwizardl> hi
[04:30] <lwizardl> what GUI does 11.04 use?
[04:32] <aauthor> lwizardl: Gnome is still the window manager, but it is augmented by Unity.
[04:32] <aauthor> (Gnome to to be precise.)
[04:32] <aauthor> *Gnome 2
[04:32] <lwizardl> so Gnome + netbook
[04:32] <lwizardl> ?
[04:33] <aauthor> Netbook Remix did use Unity.
[04:33] <lwizardl> k
[04:33] <aauthor> So it will look similar, but you still have a "desktop area" which UNR didn't have be default.
[04:34] <lwizardl> is there a way to make it so "compress" in the right click menu shows up for ISO images? because right now all it says is burn to disc and extract
[04:34] <rww> aauthor: because it's been deleted from the archive. See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/google-gadgets/0.11.2-3ubuntu1
[04:35] <rww> aauthor: and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/google-gadgets/+bug/741964
[04:37] <aauthor> rww: Thanks!
[04:38] <aauthor> lwizardl: Do you want to compress it as a zip or tar?
[04:39] <lwizardl> aauthor, yeah a 7z just like if you click on almost anything else even an avi and hit compress you get the popup to select type and split sizes
[04:41] <sysdoc> Hello all! I just installed Natty and Unity failed to start so it started with gnome, once I installed the necessary drivers for Unity to run it is not a choice in the login options. can some one help with getting Unity on the login?
[04:43] <trism> sysdoc: it is listed as Ubuntu in the sessions menu
[04:44] <sysdoc> trism, Tried that it just boots to gnome with that selection
[04:45] <trism> sysdoc: it will fallback to gnome if it fails to start unity for whatever reason, you could check ~/.xsession-errors to see where it fails
[04:45] <aauthor> lwizardl:  Hmm, I didn't even notice that compress wasn't an option for ISOs.  I don't think that there'd be a way to add that option, but a quick workaround would be to put that ISO in a folder and compress it.
[04:46] <lwizardl> aauthor, yeah or you can open archive manager and create new file with settings then drop in the iso and tell it add. but looking for an easier option
[04:47] <sysdoc> trism, thx
[04:47] <lwizardl> I create a decent amount of ISO images weekly of stuff and compressing them the long way bites. a simple right click would be hugely faster for me
[04:48] <aauthor> lwizardl: looks like there's been a bug reported for it.
[04:48] <aauthor> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/file-roller/+bug/668146
[04:48] <lwizardl> cool
[04:48] <lwizardl> maybe some day that will be corrected :)
[05:03] <perscitus> How Do I disable moving of the window controls (Close, Maximize, Minimize) to Top Panel when a window is maximized?
[05:10] <jbicha> perscitus: that's not really supported
[05:10] <perscitus> screw supported. I dont want it happening
[05:12] <perscitus> Especially i moved controls back to the right like it supposed to be.
[05:14] <perscitus> Im betting its in unity itself or compiz
[05:16] <perscitus> jbicha,  Also, the controls dont fit into a semi- transparent panel. Graphics breakup
[05:17] <perscitus> So again, How Do I disable moving of the window controls (Close, Maximize, Minimize) to Top Panel when a window is maximized?
[05:18] <perscitus> Maybe i should install Emerald.
[05:18] <jbicha> haha, just use Ubuntu Classic
[05:19] <perscitus> no thanks
[05:19] <perscitus> Not using it before its gone in 11.10
[05:19] <perscitus> because*
[05:20] <perscitus> Ive learned in earlier releases, !state=maxvert will remote titlebar in compiz.
[05:21] <perscitus> I do not like tell me what I can do with my Ubuntu desktop. And thats what Canonical is trying to do.
[05:22] <perscitus> I do not use keyboard shortcuts, its a waste of time.
[05:23] <perscitus> And it takes longer to open an app. and Unity Dock takes on average 5-7 secs to open apps using mouse with same about of clicks.
[05:25] <izinucs> perscitus: emerald is no longer supported or maintained.
[05:34] <perscitus> izinucs,  then how do i keep controls where they belong?
[05:36] <jbicha> perscitus: if you hate Unity, try Xubuntu, Kubuntu, or the experimental Gnome Shell
[05:37] <perscitus> gnome shell isnt experimental
[05:37] <donniezazen> Unity is not working lately. I did a clean installed still no unity interface but the regular gnome?
[05:37] <perscitus>  since its released
[05:37] <frankwe> perscitus: talking about gnome-shell ppa, i guess
[05:37] <rww> perscitus: the packaging of it for Ubuntu is
[05:37] <rww> hence it not being in the official repository
[05:38] <perscitus> I thought its because canonical doesnt want competition and keep people using unity
[05:39] <perscitus> and im serius about that
[05:39] <frankwe> perscitus: actually they support competition that way
[05:39] <perscitus> that didnt make sense, frankwe
[05:40] <frankwe> why not?
[05:41] <perscitus> that didnt make sense either, frankwe
[05:43] <rww> perscitus: That doesn't really make sense, if you think about it. kubuntu-desktop is in main, after all ;)
[05:44] <perscitus> except not competition.
[05:44] <perscitus> Sister Release
[05:44] <rww> and as someone who's used the GNOME3 PPA and was listening when GNOME 3 was discussed at UDS-N, all the evidence points to what I said, rather than what you said
[05:44] <perscitus> I would rather use gnome3 shell in 11.04
[05:45] <frankwe> perscitus: i'm sure you won't. you'll not get along with just the close button;)
[05:45] <rww> perscitus: Then wrangle with the PPA and hope you don't need support with it.
[05:46] <perscitus> frankwe,  Actually, your wrong. Gnome3 has minimize button and maximize can be set to titlebar area.
[05:46] <rww> or use a distro that's focused on GNOME 3 ;)
[05:46] <perscitus> Ill just use Ubuntu.
[05:46] <perscitus> THE WAY I WANT IT TO BE
[05:46] <rww> perscitus: Actually, it just has a close button.
[05:46] <perscitus> rww,  wrog
[05:46] <perscitus> wrong
[05:46] <rww> perscitus: I've used GNOME 3 with GNOME Shell on several different distributions. All of them had only close buttons.
[05:47] <jbicha> perscitus: 11.04 does not have Gnome Shell because it was too much work to switch in this cycle, and using the PPA
[05:47] <jbicha> can cause breakage
[05:47] <perscitus> rww,  so have i and i can read.
[05:47] <rww> See also, for example, http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell-list/2011-February/msg00192.html
[05:47] <perscitus> rww,  its still there but in gnome-tweak tool
[05:48]  * rww facepalms
[05:48] <rww> For someone who complains loudly about having to do their own customization, that was a rather silly cop-out.
[05:48] <perscitus> on your account
[05:49] <jbicha> donniezazen: if Ubuntu detects that your computer can't support Unity, it uses Ubuntu Classic instead
[05:49] <perscitus> jbicha,  thats cuz everyone thinks its unstable but not true.
[05:50] <jbicha> perscitus: frankly you don't know what you're talking about, I've used the Gnome 3 PPA for quite a while
[05:50] <perscitus> i didnt say ppa
[05:50] <rww> As have I. It is not stable.
[05:50] <jbicha> and I know that it breaks a lot of things, I've fixed a few of the bugs but there are others I can't
[05:50] <rww> perscitus: jbicha did.
[05:50] <perscitus> i run gnome3 live cd.
[05:51] <donniezazen> jbicha Unity works on my laptop. I have been using it since alpha it stopped loading unity after an update couple of days ago. I today did a clean install to check some wifi bug. But i still have no Unity
[05:51] <jbicha> donniezazen: what graphics driver do you use?
[05:52] <donniezazen> Nouveau
[05:52] <perscitus> either way, I still want to  disable moving of the window controls (Close, Maximize, Minimize) to Top Panel when a window is maximized?
[05:53] <jbicha> donniezazen: do you use the experimental 3D Nouveau?
[05:53] <donniezazen> jbicha i use nouveau graphic driver. I have a Dell Inspiron E1505
[05:53] <perscitus> the FOSS ATI sucks on the Ubuntu 11.04 live cd. It doesnt boot live area.and every other restart, the splash just sits there blinking
[05:54] <donniezazen> jbicha yes i have mesa experimental installed.
[05:54] <perscitus> rww,  im not the only one who wants controls stay where they are.
[05:54] <rww> perscitus: I'm aware. Ubuntu is not a democracy.
[05:54] <perscitus> rww, http://askubuntu.com/questions/25789/is-there-a-way-to-remove-maximized-window-controls-title-from-top-panel-in-unity
[05:55] <rww> perscitus: If you find out how to do it, you should post the answer on there so people can find it :)
[05:55] <frankwe> perscitus: for how long have you tried unity?
[05:55] <perscitus> rww,  It's a socialist party and popular vote wins
[05:56] <jbicha> donniezazen: you could try submitting a bug, just run ubuntu-bug and answer the questions
[05:56] <perscitus> frankwe Long to know i hate how it works with the controls
[05:57] <perscitus> frankwe,  Long enough to know Ubuntu geared towards experience and dont care about average consumer.
[05:57] <perscitus> experienced users*
[05:57] <rww> perscitus: What's a socialist party?
[05:57] <perscitus> rww,  Ubuntu
[05:58] <rww> perscitus: No, Ubuntu is a meritocracy, for some definition of 'merit'.
[05:58] <perscitus> rww,  with a self procliamed dictator at the helm
[05:58] <perscitus> not my words, just his nick for irc.
[05:58] <rww> perscitus: correct
[05:59] <donniezazen> jbicha I just want to make sure if i have correct drivers installed. I have xserver-xorg-video-nouveau and libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental installed. If i am right i do not need to have nouveau-firmware or nvidia accelerated graphic drivers installed.
[06:00] <perscitus> rww,  Average consumer wants an app menu and Unity Dock just got half arse that barely works right.
[06:00] <rww> perscitus: "app menu" being the opposite of "global menu"?
[06:00] <jbicha> donniezazen: Nouveau should work but 3D is experimental, if you really /need/ to get it working
[06:01] <jbicha> you could switch to the NVIDIA proprietary driver
[06:01] <Starminn> Does Gnome3 still break Unity?
[06:01] <jbicha> I don't think you need nouveau-firmware but I don't know
[06:01] <perscitus> rww, two different things
[06:01] <jbicha> Starminn: the Gnome3 PPA is not recommended
[06:01] <rww> perscitus: Okay. Can you describe "app menu" so I know what you mean?
[06:02] <perscitus> rww,  Application menu.
[06:02] <rww> perscitus: so like the Start menu in Windows, or the Applications menu in Ubuntu 10.10?
[06:02] <perscitus> rww,  App menu is a neatly categorized menu of apps.
[06:02] <perscitus> rww,  exactly
[06:03] <Starminn> jbicha: Doesn't much answer my question. If it's not recommended, that doesn't tell me much. I was just wondering if it still killed Unity, killed most of the system, worked perfectly (without Unity), or what?
[06:03] <rww> perscitus: Alrighty. I fully agree, the average person wants that, and Unity's dock interface is not as usable as it.
[06:03] <perscitus> rww,  They could have done it in Unity Dock easily with the overlays
[06:03] <rww> perscitus: Someone mentioned in here the other day that there's a way of getting Unity to categorize. I don't remember how, though.
[06:04] <rww> (and I don't know how well it works)
[06:04] <jbicha> Starminn: if you install the PPA and upgrade gnome-session you will not be able to log in to your other desktops
[06:04] <perscitus> rww,  I think Overlays could use new options like small icons, put them close together
[06:04] <jbicha> until you purge the PPA
[06:04] <Starminn> jbicha: What do you mean "other desktops?
[06:04] <perscitus> Starminn,  other sessions
[06:05] <Starminn> Again, "Sessions" -- same question. :)
[06:05] <jbicha> Starminn: it's possible to install it and have it work but you really need to know what you're doing
[06:05] <perscitus> Starminn,  You are stuck with gnome3 shell
[06:05] <rww> Starminn: I think what they're saying is that if you install Shell, then Classic and Unity stop working.
[06:05] <jbicha> Starminn: you won't be able to log in to Unity, Unity 2D, Ubuntu Classic
[06:05] <perscitus> but doesnt gnome3 still have a fallback in ppa?
[06:06] <jbicha> perscitus: no, the fallback mode is not in the PPA
[06:06] <Starminn> Okay, so if I install Gnome 3 I am stuck with just Gnome 3. Yes, I was aware of that. :) But the system and all apps will still work fine, I just won't be able to choose my Desktop Environment at login, correct?
[06:07] <jbicha> personally, I hacked gnome-session to get the newer version to work for me but I had difficulty getting it packaged to be part of the PPA
[06:08] <jbicha> Starminn: the gnome-control-center upgrade also can break things
[06:08] <Starminn> Does the Desktop Cube and other various Compiz effects still obliterate Unity?
[06:08] <Starminn> jbicha: Duly ntoed. Thank you for the info. :)
[06:08] <Starminn> noted*
[06:09] <jbicha> Starminn: it will work much nicer in 11.10
[06:11] <Starminn> jbicha: Gnome3, Compiz, or what? Because right now it sounds to me like 11.04 is pretty much a flop. I keep hearing, "It will be better in 11.10" but why won't it be any better in 11.04? I tried Beta 1 and most things worked fine, it's just these things that keep coming up and breaking the whole thing.
[06:12] <jbicha> both actually, Unity will have more time to improve, and Gnome Shell will be installable
[06:13] <jbicha> it can't be any better in 11.04 than it is now because 11.04 is finished
[06:13] <rww> Starminn: because there are not an infinite number of Ubuntu developers, so not everything gets done ;P
[06:13] <Starminn> To what extent do they occasional patches apply?
[06:14] <Starminn> the*
[06:14] <rww> I don't understand the question :\
[06:14] <Starminn> rww: Don't they clone themselves?
[06:14] <rww> Starminn: unfortunately not, or we'd be able to clone our Ubuntu developer ops and have an army of banhammers.
[06:15] <Starminn> I was just saying, you know the occasional system updates? To what extent do they have hold over the system? I'm asking why can't we fix such things in a patch for 11.04?
[06:15]  * Starminn cowers in a corner from the mighty Banhammer
[06:15] <danielitosj> Hello to everybody. I had some issues with 10.04 and 10.10 and Gparted in computers with partitions not aligned to cylinders boundaries.
[06:15] <rww> Starminn: because that'd involve making major changes in updates, which is a no-no.
[06:15] <rww> !latest
[06:16] <danielitosj> gparted-server dies and installation cannot continue
[06:16] <perscitus> rww,  btw, i removed global menu from 11.04
[06:16] <rww> perscitus: Was it just a matter of removing some package, or more complicated?
[06:16] <perscitus> rww,  yeah
[06:16] <danielitosj> I solved by resizing the problematic partition with an utilty
[06:16] <Starminn> rww: I understand that huge changes in a update is bad, but if there are this many problems then I think they oughta just bite the bullet.
[06:17] <danielitosj> Does anybody know if this issue has been solved in Natty
[06:17] <danielitosj> ??
[06:17] <perscitus> rww,  appmenu :P
[06:18] <perscitus> rww,  i wish window controls is a panel applet ?
[06:18] <rww> I haven't investigated the underlying implementation of Unity's top panel.
[06:19] <perscitus> Or combination of applet + compiz window decorations
[06:20] <perscitus> compiz its self can remove a titlebar
[06:21] <perscitus> rww,  the reason i remote global menu it only works on mouseover  and i didnt like the weird gradient it had.
[06:22] <perscitus> rww,  and In controls, there a graphic artifact when you use semi-transparent panel. At least for the light theme
[06:22] <perscitus> and I use buttons on right so moving mouse from right to left gets tedious
[06:23] <perscitus> rww,  When you dual boot between Windows and Ubuntu, you want it on right. OSX, then you want it on the left.
[06:24] <rww> I don't particularly care, personally. keyboard shortcuts ♥
[06:24] <perscitus> i dont use keyboard shortcuts nor will i
[06:24] <rww> Yes, we heard.
[06:24] <perscitus> takes to long
[06:25] <perscitus> i bet debian would use gnome3
[06:27] <perscitus> #debian hates #ubuntu people
[06:27] <rww> perscitus: Debian is moving to GNOME 3 for their next release, yes.
[06:27] <perscitus> next beta release
[06:27] <frankwe> which will be out in 5 years;)
[06:27] <rww> And they don't hate #ubuntu people, they hate people ignoring their channel topic and asking Ubuntu questions in #debian.
[06:28] <rww> Much like we don't like people asking e.g. Mint questions in #ubuntu.
[06:29] <perscitus> rww,  Gnome3 does have app menu for people
[06:29] <rww> perscitus: I'll take your word for it, since I forgot how GNOME Shell works already.
[06:29] <perscitus> Mint is diverging from ubuntu
[06:29] <rww> Yup.
[06:29] <perscitus> rww,  its on the right.  with a neat categories
[06:30] <perscitus> Worest part of gnome3 i hate is the theme
[06:30] <perscitus> but gnome2 themes still work in it
[06:30] <aauthor> Hey everyone!  I can't find the option is ccsm to stop windows from spanning from their viewport (i.e. workspace) into the adjacent one. Does that option still exist?
[06:31] <perscitus> i dont think that is compiz option
[06:31] <perscitus> rww,  i bet there would be a shortcut for switching from any particular workspace?
[06:32] <rww> I don't use workspaces :|
[06:33] <perscitus> rww,  It would be useful at work :P
[06:33] <aauthor> Hmm... I just find it cumbersome when a little part of one window is hanging off into the next workspace.
[06:33] <perscitus> rww,  too pretend to work when boss is around
[06:33] <rww> perscitus: I use Windows 7 at work ;P
[06:33] <perscitus> i use Windows 7 right now
[06:34] <rww> with the exception of a couple of servers, we're an all-Windows shop, and using Linux isn't feasible when you're constantly interfacing with Windows sytems.
[06:35] <perscitus> rww,  I dont use keyboard shortcuts cuz im not good with moving fingers around like that. and there is many of them so i dont bother learning them. So its easier and faster with a mouse
[07:16] <freaky[t]> hi all i have several problems with ubuntu natty. 1. i can't create a new directory in the chrome download window. everytime i click on "create new dir" it appears that i can write a new directory name but then suddenly it disappears. 2. my sound suddenly is very quiet i have tried alsamixer ... and the gnome mixer thing but everything is at 100% and i cant get it louder but it is very quiet
[07:16] <freaky[t]> can anybody help me?
[07:33] <perscitus> I got big problem in 11.04 now. It is using wrong resolution for monitor  that it doesnt support.
[07:33] <perscitus> and i cant change display settings
[07:40] <preecher> my google voice & inssider arent working in 11.04----since its still in beta should i just wait a few days or do anyone know a fix
[07:50] <Aginor> I'm running natty under virtualbox, is there a way for me to get unity running? I have enabled 3d acceleration in virtualhost, so I am surprised that it complained about computer performance
[08:01] <syn-ack> Aginor, Is the host on linux and an Intel graphics chip?
[08:01] <syn-ack> if so, no.
[08:02] <Aginor> syn-ack: the host is linux and the host is an ati graphics chip
[08:02] <Aginor> VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV630 [Radeon HD 2600XT] to be specific
[08:03] <syn-ack> Aginor, Then you need to install the proprietary driver instead of the open source one
[08:03] <Aginor> ah, I'll give that a go later then
[08:03] <Aginor> cheers
[08:50] <obladi_> hola. i apt-get upgraded from natty beta1 yesterday, seeing as the new nvidia driver was supposed to work with xorg1.10. however, now i don't have acceleration, and i dearly miss unity. i've tried reinstalling drivers and editing conf file. need help please
[08:51] <obladi_> also, when i try to do a glxinfo | grep rendering, i just get a : Error: glXCreateContext failed
[08:51] <frybye> Hi I have a ge-foce 240 and the nvidia current driver and 3d/unity is working fine... as a last resort if you cant get 3d to work there is the 2d unity to download...
[08:52] <frybye> which nvidia card do you have...?
[08:52] <obladi_> a geforece go 7300 (laptop)
[08:52] <obladi_> was working fine until yesterday, whe i upgraded
[08:53] <frybye> and is it the nvidia-current that you have installed?
[08:53] <obladi_> yes
[08:53] <frybye> or used the gui for additonal drivers.. hmmm
[08:54] <obladi_> tried that as well
[08:54] <frybye> I don't know enough to get deep into details - but like I say one can get the 2d unity if that is only soloution/aka partial soloution...
[08:54] <obladi_> hm
[08:55] <frybye> on a real old pc at work with a agp grafic card etc.. the 2d worked fine untill I found a better pc...#
[08:55] <obladi_> what's funny is that everything else works, i'm logged in woth max resolution. at other times, when things aren't working, nothing works, and i have to log in with the nv driver
[08:55] <frybye> not quite so snazzy in appearance of course but functions in expected manner...
[08:56] <frybye> does the nvidia driver work in classic mode??
[08:56] <obladi_> yeah
[08:56] <obladi_> that's whats so funny
[08:56] <obladi_> i'm logged in to classic right now, with the nvidia driver
[08:57] <frybye> apparently unity itself is still a bit problematic.. perhaps you could use the 2d unity and actively persue a bug report at the same time..
[08:57] <frybye> or use classic and chase a bug report... what does google say about the 7300 go and natty?
[08:58] <obladi_> well, i don't think it's unity's problem, cause it's the DRI part of nvidia's driver, and nvidia don't take much notice of bug reports..
[08:58] <zniavr> it's blacklisted gpu no?
[08:58] <obladi_> blacklisted gpu?
[08:58] <frybye> I dont mean a nvidia bug report - on launchpad...
[08:58] <grechk> hello
[08:58] <frybye> nvidia give a *** about individual user and even less linux...
[08:58] <grechk> I have a problem with acpi. I created two scripts, one for and a decrease brightness to increase, but I can not connect them with the hotkey buttons. The script from a terminal work.
[08:59] <grechk> Then I created the events in the following way, but I do not understand why do not work
[08:59] <grechk> event=sony/hotkey SNC 00000001 00000010
[08:59] <grechk> action=/etc/apci/sonybright.sh
[08:59] <grechk> help me, please :)
[08:59] <aliendude5300> hi, I just upgraded to the ubuntu beta today from 10.10, and everything (more or less) seems to work, using the classic desktop, but I can't play audio/video using totem (vlc works). The message I get is "Failed to create a GStreamer play object. Please check your GStreamer installation."
[09:00] <frybye> aliendude5300: have you installed the restricted extras from the software control center???
[09:00] <frybye> just look for restricted in there and choose the one for your flavour of ubuntu - edbuntu - kubuntu etc..
[09:00] <aliendude5300> frybye: that shouldn't matter, but yes -- even free formats like ogg don't play.
[09:01] <frybye> eh - i am no expert but did you "check yoour GStreamer installation?"
[09:02] <aliendude5300> frybye: there is no GStreamer package... but I installed all the packages that start with "libgstreamer" using apt-get, and Totem worked perfectly fine in 10.10
[09:02] <frybye> ie a lot of the time part of the fault report gets ignored which in fact is/was a good clue about where/wht problems are..
[09:02] <frybye> worked fine in means little i feel - a lot tends to change...
[09:03] <frybye> have you purged totem and fresh installed???
[09:03] <aliendude5300> I reinstalled totem, and it made no difference. Banshee doesn't work either. VLC does.
[09:04] <frybye> so how about linking stuff to vlc and consider problem solved???
[09:04] <aliendude5300> Isn't 11.04 coming out in 3 days? I'd expect upgrading 3 days before the final release to the beta to work well...
[09:05] <aliendude5300> frybye: because my gstreamer installation is obviously broken and many things rely on it
[09:05] <frybye> aliend sounds like a great reason to report a bug to launchpad!!
[09:05] <frybye> urgently!!
[09:06] <frybye> or at least a queston to that part of launchpad!!
[09:07] <frybye> aliendude5300: other point is that a clean install of the daily would be different to an upgrade done shortly before release...#
[09:08] <aliendude5300> frybye: I doubt anything significant will change between the final and what's done 3 days before the release...
[09:10] <sagaci> hey, when is the free culture showcase winners hitting the release?
[09:16] <misterme> how do you remove applications being displayed in the installed applications menu?
[09:19] <frybye> misterme: buy unintallying the applicaton?
[09:20] <misterme> frybye: they were installed through wine, but when i removed them they did not get deleted from the menu
[09:20] <frybye> sorry for my typpos.. using a keyboard I am not used to...
[09:20] <frybye> did you installl them via wine?
[09:20] <misterme> yeah
[09:21] <frybye> ah now i understand - you are refering to the task bar on the left of unity desktop - right click and remove icon i guess or..?
[09:22] <frybye> I thought you were referring to software center...
[09:22] <frybye> or "unfasten from taskbar" or similar - and then delete from desktop...
[09:24] <iceroot> is there a reason why aptitude is not installed by default?
[09:26] <frybye> misterme: so you got it fixed...?
[09:26] <misterme> still working oni t
[09:27] <misterme> there is no right click assignment in the menu
[09:30] <frybye> brb - switching to a natty install..
[09:35] <frybye> re:
[09:38] <frybye> in the natty- unity mode, applications on the starter menu do generally have a right-click option with "keep in starter?" - or?
[09:38] <frybye> I am usinb
[09:38] <frybye> e e e I am using a German language natty here so not sure of the exact wording - but will be similar for sure..
[09:44] <gnomefreak> frybye: some will give you the option to keep in launcher some will not, example the workspace switer you can not remove from dock
[09:44] <gnomefreak> same with applications and file+folders
[09:44] <gnomefreak> sorry im not here atm i just looked up real fast
[09:47] <frybye> gnomefreak: the user this was for seems to have left.. stuff that is part of "system" non-removeable - but self-installed appl. yeah or..?
[09:50] <th^^> is there any way to make empathy open chat window when i receive the message? it's getting annoying when i miss messages and need to scroll through contacts list to see it
[09:52] <lizard_2k1> hi all again.
[09:52] <th^^> guess i'm just better off installing better im client than this, meh
[09:53] <lizard_2k1> anyone know, can i install gnome and unity together?
[09:53] <gnomefreak> frewsxcv: those i listed are the only ones you can not remove, you can remove the others and/or add more.  ok its ~5am im going to bed
[09:53] <yofel> they are both installed together by default (but unity and gnome3 won't work together)
[09:53] <lizard_2k1> and how if it possoible
[09:53] <lizard_2k1> *possible
[09:54] <Samo502> just figured i'd throw this out there as a possible bug;
[09:54] <Samo502> some areas of the screen don't respond to the mouse
[09:54] <lizard_2k1> i dowload ubuntu 11.04 iso image and its don't have gnome
[09:54] <Samo502> like aren't clickable
[09:54] <th^^> lizard_2k1: just select 'ubuntu classic' as session from login screen
[09:54] <lizard_2k1> after install nome i lost unity ((
[09:54] <yofel> lizard_2k1: it does, you need to select 'ubuntu classic' at the login screen
[09:55] <lizard_2k1> system say me that "session ubuntu classic not found"
[09:55] <th^^> O_o
[09:55] <yofel> lizard_2k1: is gnome-session installed?
[09:56] <lizard_2k1> yofel: yes
[09:57] <yofel> then I don't know why it doesn't show it as that package has the Xsession file
[10:03] <JamesJRH> Where do I find settings for Unity?
[10:04] <lizard_2k1> how i can start 2nd x-serevr?
[10:04] <JamesJRH> All I can find is 'Launcher & Menus'. How do I make the icons smaller?
[10:10] <zniavre> james > compizconfig-settings-manager
[10:10] <zniavre> JamesJRH,  **  tab fail sorry
[10:13] <lizard_2k1> Oo? i do it)) sudo startx -- :2
[10:14] <yofel> bjsnider: is it a known issue that the dkms auto-build doesn't work? I just wanted to try an older kernel just to end up without X because the nvidia module wasn't built for that kernel
[10:25] <BlueLaguna> Is there no way to move the Unity dock in Natty?
[10:29] <JamesJRH> BlueLaguna: Apparently not. It's because it's supposed to be below the Ubuntu logo.
[10:30] <Samo502> according to the article here, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/ubuntu-unity-launcher-wont-be-moveable/
[10:30] <Samo502> it is not moveable
[10:30] <Samo502> and is fixed by design
[10:30] <JamesJRH> zniavre: Thank you.
[10:31] <BlueLaguna> That is....really annoying
[10:31] <BlueLaguna> :-/
[10:31] <JamesJRH> Is Unity dependant on Compiz? What about unsupported graphics cards?
[10:32] <JamesJRH> Can they not have Unity?
[10:37] <JamesJRH> Well I'm glad they've stopped calling CCSM "Advanced Desktop Effects Settings".
[10:38] <JamesJRH> It's really not advanced, and is nicely layed out.
[10:41] <JamesJRH> I don't know why they don't bundle CCSM.
[10:41] <JamesJRH> Especially now that Unity's settings are in it.
[10:41] <arand> JamesJRH: Unity is at it's cora a compiz plugin, yes, there is unity-2d, which can function without, it's presumably to be the default fallback in oo.
[10:42] <arand> JamesJRH: I guess there is still the issue that some of the settings in there can quite heavily mess things up..
[10:43] <JamesJRH> Then you just click the restore buttons on the right.
[10:44] <JamesJRH> So where are Unity 2d's settings?
[10:44] <zniavre> gconf-editor ...
[10:45] <JamesJRH> And that's /not/ advanced?!
[10:45] <zniavre> i saw a GUI for unity-2d in one ubuntublog but it's just gconf-editor workaround
[10:46] <zniavre> what is funny you can run unity-2d + compiz ... if your gfx can not handle unity
[10:47] <JamesJRH> So basically there is no central location for the settings of both 2D and 3D unity.
[10:47] <JamesJRH> That would be a useful feature.
[10:47] <zniavre> i do not think JamesJRH
[10:47] <zniavre> for sure maybe later
[10:50] <quent56> Hello, I have a serious problem with natty. The morning I boot my notebook, and it was block on Ubuntu loading ( . . .). I press power button, it shutdown properly. And now I have lost my partition table !
[10:51] <quent56> Grub don't lauch, and I start natty beta 2 in a live usb, and gparted say me : "No partition table found on device /dev/sda".
[10:53] <quent56> I installed Ubuntu natty beta 2 on a new ssd one week ago.  I did a dist-upgrade daily.
[10:53] <quent56> I don't loose my data I think (backup) so it's not the problem (and I will try testdisk).
[10:54] <quent56> But the problem is that Ubuntu natty come out in 3 days.
[10:54] <quent56> Do you know a bug report about this ?
[11:12] <JamesJRH> Gosh! Scrollbars are irritating. How do I get normal ones?
[11:12] <freaky[t]> yes the scrollbars suck
[11:12] <freaky[t]> i dont know how to get normal ones
[11:12] <freaky[t]> i'd like to have normal ones too
[11:12] <freaky[t]> :D
[11:13] <JamesJRH> I expect it'll be in CCSM.
[11:14] <JamesJRH> No matches found for 'scroll'. :(
[11:16] <quent56> I think, there is an environment variable you can set for disableing scrollbar
[11:18] <quent56> At the beginning, we had to launch LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=foo gnome-appearance-properties   for enable scrollbar, maybe it can disable too.
[11:18] <quent56> or uninstall liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-0 .
[11:22] <quent56> Erf, anyone see me ? nobody answer my question, or reply to my sentence ....
[11:23] <JamesJRH> Hooray! Normal scrollbars! liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-0 bye-bye-gone! :P
[11:23] <JamesJRH> quent56: Thank you! :D
[11:23] <quent56> :)
[11:29] <mc__> hi, where can I find the System menu in 11.04?
[11:30] <JamesJRH> Err... Unity doesn't work like that. Just search.
[11:31] <quent56> or control center.
[11:31] <JamesJRH> Top-right.
[11:31] <JamesJRH> System settings.
[11:32] <mc__> JamesJRH, so alt-F2 and then 'System settings'?
[11:32] <JamesJRH> Or top-right power button, then "System Settings".
[11:32] <mc__> quent56,  how do I execute control center?
[11:33] <quent56> "power button" on top right
[11:33] <zniavre> inside the session-indicator
[11:33] <mc__> JamesJRH, seems the power button has fallen off my screen
[11:33] <quent56> then the last entries.
[11:35] <JamesJRH> alt-F2, gnome-con...
[11:35] <mc__> JamesJRH, thank you
[11:35] <mc__> btw, how do I adjust the display area?
[11:36] <mc__> seems apps are displayed fine (whole window), but the top bar is missing a bit to the right...
[11:37] <sveinse> How do I revert back to traditional menus? I'm giving up getting the launcher to behave the way I want...
[11:39] <mc__> which is the preferred way to set up applications to start when the wm starts?
[11:44] <JamesJRH> mc__: Usually, just click the Ubuntu logo (or press super), and search. Eg: "settings" or "start".
[11:46] <JamesJRH> Unity's search is a defining feature. It's totally awesome! :D
[11:47] <mc__> JamesJRH, thanks!
[11:47] <JamesJRH> NP. ;)
[11:49] <sveinse> Is it possible to use the dash search feature under the old traditional menus?
[11:54] <JamesJRH> Can I review software with a launchpad account? I don't want to create an USC account when I already have Launchpad.
[11:55] <JamesJRH> Hey yes! It works! :D
[11:56] <JamesJRH> They should mention that on the login window.
[11:59] <mc__> how do I change which java plugin is used by firefox? (i've got both sun's jre and icedtea installed)
[12:02] <sveinse> How do I revert back to traditional menus and panels?  I'm giving up trying to configure the launcher to behave the way I want it to
[12:07] <Ian_Corne> release in 3 days..
[12:07] <Ian_Corne> if anyone wonders abouyt mc__'s question
[12:07] <Ian_Corne> it's update-alternatives
[12:08] <Ian_Corne> and there's a gui for it, galternatives
[12:09] <sveinse> out of interest: Is everyone ecstatic about the new launcher/unity?
[12:10] <sveinse> I have to admit I'm having problems adopting it to my workflow. But it could be (old fashioned) me...
[12:11] <Ian_Corne> I've been working with it
[12:11] <Ian_Corne> and it's ok
[12:11] <Ian_Corne> but i added a panel to the bottom with my applets I need
[12:11] <cdbs> You guys are talking about Unity?
[12:11] <Ian_Corne> yes
[12:11] <Ian_Corne> And i can't for the life of me find where to set more workspaces
[12:12] <Ian_Corne> I need more then 4..
[12:12] <sveinse> Ian_Corne: How do I add new panels?
[12:12] <Ian_Corne> sveinse: I just run gnome-panel in the startup applications
[12:12] <sveinse> I also need more panels. It's found in the compiz config tool (which isn't installed by default)
[12:12]  * cdbs has been using Unity since pre-Alpha 1 times when it was.... *ahem* so buggy that you can't expect an app to open if you clicked its launcher icon :)
[12:12] <Ian_Corne> but it makes 2 shells run at the same time
[12:12] <Ian_Corne> so alt+f2 triggers 2 things
[12:12] <Ian_Corne> the unity one and the panel one
[12:12] <jo-erlend> Ian_Corne, isn't that configured in dconf?
[12:13] <Ian_Corne> what's dconf? :)
[12:13] <cdbs> Ian_Corne: Well, you can get rid of that panel overhead by using appindicators on Unity
[12:14] <Ian_Corne> which are?
[12:14] <jo-erlend> Ian_Corne, it's a backend-independent config system, as I understand it. It replaces gconf. You can install dconf-editor and have a look.
[12:14] <Ian_Corne>        dconf - create a system's hardware and software configuration snapshot
[12:14] <Ian_Corne> I installed dconf
[12:14] <cdbs> Ian_Corne: Which applets do you use?
[12:14] <yofel> dconf-tools rather
[12:14] <Ian_Corne> :)
[12:15] <Ian_Corne> cdbs: netspeed system monitor
[12:15] <cdbs> The Narwhal is releasing damn soon, I can't wait!
[12:15] <Ian_Corne> mount thingy
[12:15] <Ian_Corne> and a button for xkill
[12:16] <Ian_Corne> dconf is in conflict with dconf-tools?
[12:16] <Ian_Corne> weird
[12:17] <jo-erlend> Ian_Corne, you can configure the panel so that notification icons are displayed in the indicator area in dconf. Then you can use something like Alltray to place apps there. I won't recommend it, since I think those kinds of notifications are horrible, but it should solve your problem.
[12:17] <Ian_Corne> well
[12:17] <cdbs> Ian_Corne: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/01/the-omg-guide-to-must-have-indicator-applets/
[12:17] <cdbs> Ian_Corne: probably you can find a replacement there
[12:18] <jo-erlend> but what would be nice, was if we got a appindicator similar to "the wonderful icon" on Windows, that does many small, but useful things.
[12:18] <Ian_Corne> thanks I'll look at it
[12:18] <Ian_Corne> I used to use music-applet too
[12:18] <Ian_Corne> but it broke or something :p
[12:18] <Ian_Corne> It breaks every release
[12:23] <sveinse> Can I dock the workspaces into the top bar on unity? Because that is one of the things I really miss
[12:24] <sveinse> =worspace switcher similar to the old pager version where you could see every workspace
[12:24] <Ian_Corne> hmm
[12:24] <Ian_Corne> you mean an interactive indicator? so with 4 (for example) little screens where you can click on?
[12:25] <sveinse> Yes
[12:25] <sveinse> I had a bottom panel with the list of apps (on that workspace) and the desktop/workspace pager on the right
[12:26] <Ian_Corne> I don't know but i've not seen any indicators that are interactive in their icon
[12:26] <Ian_Corne> yes
[12:26] <Ian_Corne> if you want a quick access, there's the super+s
[12:26] <sveinse> And then you need to double click your mouse...
[12:27] <sveinse> Ctrl+Alt+Left/right/up/down still works
[12:30] <sveinse> I could seem to me that ubuntu is moving away from the concepts of workspaces (which is one of the greatest feature over Win) since switching is more cumbersome and less visible
[12:33] <sveinse> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/11/omg-5-five-ways-to-switch-between-workspaces-in-ubuntu/
[12:33] <sveinse> I love this statement: "Half the battle in getting used to using ‘virtual workspaces’ is in finding a way to switch between them that suits your workflow so, to help you get accustomed, here’s a list of 5 ways to do the switch."
[12:34] <sveinse> Actually that is my fight with 11.04... I can't get the same way of switching workspaces anymore.
[12:35] <penguin42> sveinse: Interesting, for me that was the thing that still worked - I use ctrl-alt-arrow
[12:36] <sveinse> I use ctrl-alt-arrows.. But I also clicked directly on workspace on the panel app. I use 6 workspaces or so (and they are fully populated)
[12:36] <Ian_Corne> same
[12:38] <sveinse> When you have 6 full workspaces with 5-8 apps on each, it will be equally crucial that the launcher on the left does not show open apps for every workspace. Which it does unfortunately
[12:42] <jo-erlend> sveinse, I agree that workspaces isn't optimal as of now. It would be much better if you could switch between stuff using alt+num in super+s, super+w, etc.
[12:42] <mickstep> Hello, I have just wiped my natty install, so I could reinstall vista (which I previously didn't have installed, I now have a need for it) dual booting with natty beta 2
[12:42] <penguin42> sveinse: Yeh I run a 3x3 workspace set
[12:42] <mickstep> but when I reinstalled I I didn't set up my home partition during install
[12:43] <Ian_Corne> I think, by default, no seperate home partition is made?
[12:43] <sveinse> jo-erlend: I think you can configure direct access keys to the workspaces
[12:43] <Ian_Corne> or is it a previous home partition you are talking about mickstep ?
[12:44] <mickstep> setting it up now I see that when i used natty to set up my home partition it used some wierd @home thing inside the partition
[12:44] <mickstep> previous partition
[12:44] <sveinse> jo-erlend: Take a look in keyboard shortcuts
[12:44] <mickstep> I just need to know how I set up fstab to mount the @home folder inside the partition
[12:44] <Ian_Corne> mickstep: check if your fstab has the /home partition mounted
[12:44] <jo-erlend> sveinse, yes, but then you'd have to use only those. That's not what I want. I want to reuse the same alt+num combinations for those windows, like you would switch between tabs in other applications. I think that's both more user friendly -- because it's consistent -- and more efficient to work with.
[12:44] <mickstep> I can't find anything on google about it
[12:44] <Ian_Corne> what is an @home folder? :p
[12:45] <mickstep> Ian_Corne: no idea, the natty installer seems to have invented it
[12:45] <sveinse> jo-erlend: I do agree with you. That's why I'm wondering if ubuntu is moving away from the workspace concepts
[12:45] <jo-erlend> sveinse, for instance: to switch to workspace 4, you'd first press super+s to bring up the overview and then alt+4 to switch to the 4th workspace.
[12:46] <mickstep> I am not joking instead of mounting home partition it literally mounts a folder inside the partition called "@home"
[12:46] <penguin42> sveinse: Gnome shell's got a much more vicious change to the work space policy; it only seems to allow a single line
[12:46] <Ian_Corne> well can you show us your fstab file?
[12:47] <mickstep> Ian_Corne: well its just a basic fstab, the information I am looking for is what the fstab looked like in a previous install, which I don't have
[12:47] <sveinse> penguin42: What do you mean?
[12:48] <penguin42> sveinse: I tried the new gnome 3 shell, and they seem to have removed a lot of the workspace shortcuts and you can't have a 2d array of workspaces any more - it's just a vertical stack of them
[12:48] <Ian_Corne> I used to get that when stuff crashed
[12:48] <Ian_Corne> penguin42: ^
[12:49] <Ian_Corne> switching compiz on and off or other way round, fixed that problem
[12:49] <jo-erlend> I'm not entirely sure what the workspaces are for anymore, if I ever did. It was kinda useful when I had a big screen with 2560x1600 resolution, since I could then lay out apps on different workspaces, but... Other than that? I don't know. It limits alt+tab, that's all it does for me. :)
[12:50] <penguin42> jo-erlend: I have different stuff in each; web browser is down in ws 9 at bottom right, mail in number 4 at middle left, music player is ws 7 bottom right
[12:50] <penguin42> jo-erlend: Then things i'm workin on I'll keep in particular ws
[12:50] <JamesJRH> sveinse: Yes, I'm ecstatic about Unity! Just one or two small hiccups, but amazing! :)
[12:50] <jo-erlend> penguin42, yes, but why?
[12:50] <mickstep> I think I'll just reinstall beta 2 and this time let the Natty installer know about my home partition, it seems to be the only entity on earth aware of this wierd new "@home" set up
[12:50] <penguin42> jo-erlend: Space really - even with a 1920 display
[12:51] <penguin42> jo-erlend: And I very rarely touch the music player for example so it never gets in the way
[12:51] <jo-erlend> penguin42, then you switch between workspaces instead of apps/windows? That's nice for big screens, but other than that, I see no use.
[12:51] <sveinse> Well when I'm at work I have 1) with editor, compiler shell, and tools  2) 3 ssh terminals to our embedded targets, 3) web-browser, 4) WM with winXP
[12:51] <penguin42> jo-erlend: Yes mostly switch between workspaces - I do have multiple terminals etc on each display but very little overlapping windows
[12:52] <sveinse> It would be a mess to handle everyting in one workspace
[12:52] <bac> Hi, yesterday I used update-manager to go from 10.10 to 11.04 on a MacBookPro5,1 and now booting hangs after "Checking battery state".  X log files show it cannot load the nvidia driver, which is installed.  Ideas?
[12:52]  * yofel keeps the independent full-screen apps on one workspace, the other ones are seperated by whatever I'm doing, one task per workspace
[12:52] <mongy> I miss my left edge clicks to access scale/expo
[12:52] <mongy> oh and wall
[12:53] <sveinse> mongy: Isn't that available in compiz config ?  Or do I remember incorrectly?
[12:53] <mongy> available yes, working no
[12:53] <jo-erlend> penguin42, right. In those cases, they are very useful, but that's fairly limited, I think. I'd love it if the workspaces were context aware, so that for instance, my work-workspaces firefox used my Work profile while my break-workspace used a break profile, etc. If Zeitgeist could be made aware of it too, so that the stuff I do while on break doesn't show up in recent-stuff in my work-workspace, then it'd be really useful.
[12:54] <jo-erlend> I think there are many opportunities for improvements in Unity and I hope they're willing to listen to suggestions. ;)
[12:54] <sveinse> I second that
[12:54] <penguin42> jo-erlend: I guess it's the way I've done it for many many years (I was thinking abotu this the other day - maybe 15 years going all the way back to fvwm)
[12:55] <JamesJRH> I 3rd that. ;)
[12:56] <sveinse> is is possible to alter the icon size of dash?  I'm not blind, so I don't want the enormous suggestions
[12:56] <JamesJRH> Yes, CCSM.
[12:56] <mongy> think he means the playskool dash top left
[12:57] <jo-erlend> I am really happy with Unity. I find myself switching between xchat and firefox just for fun. :)
[12:57] <JamesJRH> What's dash?
[12:57] <jo-erlend> JamesJRH, what you get if you press and release super.
[12:57] <jo-erlend> the "main lense".
[12:57] <JamesJRH> Ahh.
[12:58] <yofel> I wonder if they could've named 'dash' something else, as that's already the name of our system shell -.-
[12:58] <jo-erlend> I agree.
[12:58] <sveinse> Where in ccsm can I configure the icon size?
[12:58] <sveinse> ..not the launcher's
[12:58] <mongy> cant.... that I can see
[12:58] <foodstamp> upgraded 10.10 to 11.04 and mic (internal & headset dont work) anyone have any suggestions? thanks
[12:59] <jo-erlend> yofel, perhaps Applense would be funny? :)
[12:59] <JamesJRH> sveinse: I don't think you can, I thought you meant the launcher.
[12:59] <yofel> that doesn't sound too bad :)
[13:00] <jo-erlend> yofel, yes, except Canonical would probably be hurt real bad by Apple. :)
[13:00] <yofel> heh
[13:00] <JamesJRH> Yes, I could see dash a mile off, maybe even from space... :P :P :P
[13:00] <sveinse> Maybe I should use Ian_Corne's tip: starting gnome-panel on startup. I think I'll go nuts without having a list of apps running on *that* workspace and a workspace switcher....
[13:01] <jo-erlend> sveinse, I really thought that'd annoy me, but after a very short time, the way unity does it grew on me. Have you given it a chance?
[13:02] <jo-erlend> sveinse, it's easy to assign keyboard shortcuts to different workspaces and I think you can limit super-w to only include the apps on this workspace, etc.
[13:02] <JamesJRH> Hey! What about the cube! It conflict with Unity!!! D:
[13:03] <jo-erlend> great! I hate that stuff :)
[13:03] <JamesJRH> Oh, no!!! D:
[13:03] <sveinse> jo-erlend: I will try it this week at work
[13:03] <foodstamp> do ubuntu/unity use diffent sound than xubuntu/xfce?
[13:03] <sveinse> Alt-Tab only shows the windows in the active workspace
[13:04] <jo-erlend> right.
[13:05] <sveinse> jo-erlend: How do you cope with the laucher showing every open app on every workspace? And the fact that you need to middle click to get a new instance of the app
[13:06] <jo-erlend> sveinse, well.. I don't actually use multiple instances very often. And I use super+w to get an overview of open windows. Also, pressing super+num twice shows all windows that belongs to one application.
[13:07] <jo-erlend> I think that's actually quite efficient. I only wish it would be possible to use alt+num in those windows as well.
[13:07] <aif123> how is natty narwharl doing?
[13:07] <jo-erlend> but yes, launching new instances is a bit cumbersome.
[13:07] <jo-erlend> aif123, coming along nicely.
[13:07] <sveinse> Well.. My most frequent use is the terminal. I can have like 10-12 of those in total.
[13:08] <aif123> cool new features in utnity
[13:08] <aif123> ?
[13:08] <jo-erlend> sveinse, oh, for that I press super and type term<enter>.
[13:08] <mongy> its obvious unity is more geared towards the less experienced linux users who wont be running many apps at once.
[13:08] <topyli> uhhh, why does icedtea-plugin depend on firefox? :\
[13:09] <aif123> rc reday yet
[13:09] <jo-erlend> that's a _lot_ faster for me than clicking on the launcher. That's one of the things I really love about Unity... I hate using the mouse when it's not necessary.
[13:09] <Pici> aif123: There is no RC.
[13:09] <jo-erlend> aif123, there won't be any rc. It'll be released on thursday.
[13:09] <aif123> huh?
[13:09] <yofel> topyli: it doesn't, at least not directly
[13:09] <topyli> yofel: well removing firefox threatens to remove it
[13:10] <topyli> (kubuntu)
[13:10] <yofel> aif123: we got beta2 instead of RC since we're having easter right now
[13:10] <yofel> topyli: oh wait, you're right
[13:10] <yofel> sorry
[13:11] <sveinse> But I'll be open minded and try to use unity this week. In case I give up, how do I revert back to traditional gnome menus&panels?
[13:11] <Pici> sveinse: Pick 'Classic Gnome' from GDM
[13:11] <jo-erlend> sveinse, choose Ubuntu Classic in GDM.
[13:11] <buff27> beta2 is fine..... for xubuntu
[13:11] <topyli> sveinse: just choose "classic" when logging in
[13:11] <topyli> heh
[13:11] <jo-erlend> :)
[13:12] <yofel> we need a factoid for that, it's like the no.1 FAQ...
[13:12] <buff27> 11.10 ubuntu will be interesting
[13:12] <JamesJRH> jo-erlend, topyli: I think he gets the point by now. :P
[13:13] <topyli> no, the no.1 faq is "why is canonical forcing unity upon me with no way to get back to regular gnome?"
[13:13] <freaky[t]> for some reason it takes ages for empathy to open a chat window with someone ... does anybody have an idea what this can be caused by?
[13:13] <yofel> topyli: true too, but that's people not caring to read the release notes
[13:13] <buff27> have you seen the gnome3 interface, it's kinda like a unity fork
[13:14] <topyli> if i try to remove firefox with plain apt, its plan is to remove icedtea AND install thunderbird
[13:14] <jo-erlend> buff27, that's dangerous grounds. Try to avoid it. :)
[13:14] <Ian_Corne> 11.10 will mean alot of work for people who maintain computer rooms..
[13:14] <yofel> buff27: they do have some similarities, but they are 2 completely different implementations
[13:14] <Ian_Corne> :p
[13:14] <mongy> even in classic mode my edges+buttons compiz settings dont work, and the little things like parallax scrolling of the desktop wall/viewport switcher is no more.
[13:15] <jo-erlend> Ian_Corne, I don't think those should actually use 11.10. They should wait for 12.04.
[13:15] <topyli> mongy: try classic (no effects)
[13:15] <yofel> well, 11.10 will be preperation for 12.04, so it'll be interesting
[13:15] <Pici> I should upgrade this server to the narwhal
[13:15] <jo-erlend> yofel, oh, absolutely. But I don't think I'd recommend it for large deployments.
[13:15] <mongy> topyli,   I want effects, I use compiz
[13:16] <jo-erlend> particularly this in-between-release, since there'll be lots of news and probably lots of bugs.
[13:16] <topyli> mongy: if you want window decorations, let go of the effects for now :)
[13:16] <mongy> topyli,  huh? who said anything abou decorations?
[13:17] <topyli> mongy: oh i thought you ment those by "edges+buttons"
[13:17] <topyli> i suppose not then
[13:17] <Ian_Corne> yeah jo-erlend I've pushed our computer rooms to use 10.04
[13:17] <Ian_Corne> and only go to the next LTS
[13:17] <mongy> topyli, ah.. no not those..
[13:17] <spacebug-> Where can I change the key binding for Unity? Seems that ctrl+super+t opens trash and I want it to open terminal. Something overides someting else =)
[13:17] <mongy> guess I'll have to change my ways if I upgrade fully
[13:18] <freaky[t]> i have filed a bugreport 3 days ago still no response
[13:18] <yofel> jo-erlend: I second Ian_Corne, for large deployments you want the LTS, or you'll need to employ an additional admin
[13:18] <jo-erlend> Ian_Corne, I decided to stick with 10.04 on my desktop too. That's a really good sign. It's the first release I haven't felt any need to upgrade until necessary.
[13:18] <sveinse> I'm excited to see the GP response to unity. I think it will be two fold: It lowers the threshold for new users, which is good. But I think there will be criticism from the established user's community since many things have changed totally.
[13:18] <MK``> I have to upgrade to fix a hardware incompatibility issue, sort of wish I didn't have to
[13:19] <Ian_Corne> jo-erlend: well 10.04 brings ppa's
[13:19] <Ian_Corne> so that's nice :)
[13:19] <jo-erlend> I'm actually not sure it lowers the threshold for new users. My immediate response is that it requires slightly more of the user, but then it's also a lot more efficient to work with.
[13:19] <JamesJRH> sveinse: I'm an established user. I love it! :D
[13:19] <Ian_Corne> I've installed the firefox-stable ppa on the 10.04 machines
[13:19] <Ian_Corne> and scheme ppa
[13:19] <Ian_Corne> and other programs
[13:19] <yofel> Ian_Corne: erm, we had PPAs long before lucid
[13:19] <Ian_Corne> but igtg
[13:20] <Ian_Corne> yofel: well, 10.04 brings wide support
[13:20] <Ian_Corne> at least for most of the ppa's that I need
[13:20] <yofel> ah, add-apt-repository, true
[13:20] <Ian_Corne> :)
[13:20] <jo-erlend> Ian_Corne, oh, I don't think I've used any ppas on lucid on my desktop. What I think is important is that the kernel, firefox, java and flash are upgraded for LTSs to make those things up to date.
[13:20] <Ian_Corne> it's more practical!
[13:20] <Ian_Corne> is ff 4 in lucid yet?
[13:21] <yofel> not yet
[13:21] <yofel> and I don't think they'll update immediately, 3.6 will get support for a while longer I think
[13:21] <jo-erlend> hmm. I tried "apt-get install rmadison", but I was only informed that the package doesn't exist. I'm pretty sure earlier releases asked me if I meant devscripts?
[13:21] <yofel> then again, I don't know the mozilla support timelines
[13:22] <yofel> jo-erlend: run 'rmadison' and it'll tell you that you need devscripts
[13:22] <yofel> apt-get doesn't do that
[13:22] <JamesJRH> sveinse: The search, clarity, organisation, and conservation of screen real-estate, make Unity a must for me.
[13:22] <jo-erlend> yofel, but it used to?
[13:22] <yofel> jo-erlend: don't think so
[13:22] <yofel> not sure though
[13:23] <jo-erlend> perhaps I'm confused. It wouldn't be the first time. :)
[13:24] <sveinse> JamesJRH: I totally agree on screen real-estate. I also love dash. I don't like that the browsable traditional menus have been removed though
[13:25] <jo-erlend> oh, I love being able to type!
[13:25] <myk_robinson> morning. How do I suppress the startup sound? I disabled the login sound, but I would also like to disable the sound as the desktop is being rendered. Made the mistake of leaving the volume up loud, and wearing headphones when I started my laptop this morning
[13:25] <sveinse> I don't like that I can see dash's search proposals from accross the entire office floor. But I guess a size setting will come at some point
[13:25] <yofel> erm, you could already type in gnome-do to easily find apps, what's the new thing in dash?
[13:26] <jo-erlend> myk_robinson, the audio-stuff on your panel has some preferences. The first tab has some choices for audio themes. Does that help?
[13:26] <jo-erlend> yofel, I use it. :)
[13:26] <JamesJRH> sveinse: The categories were irritating, because often thing would fit under multiple categories, and find what you want often meant looking through more than 1 category.
[13:26] <yofel> jo-erlend: sure, I'm just wondering what's the great improvement there
[13:26] <myk_robinson> jo-erlend: Thank, i see an option for "No Sounds". Lemme log out and back in and give it a shot.
[13:26] <jo-erlend> is that what gnome-do was supposed to do? I tried it once, but I didn't get the meaning, so I just stopped using it. :)
[13:26] <JamesJRH> s/find/finding/
[13:27] <JamesJRH> sveinse: Or from space! :P
[13:27] <sveinse> hah :D
[13:27] <yofel> jo-erlend: well, it was a more intelligent replacement for alt+f2 and had an apple-like docky mode too back when I used it
[13:27] <jo-erlend> yofel, then I suppose the improvement is that it's there. Also, I don't think gnome-do uses Zeitgeist and that Unity does. Zeitgeist has some nice features.
[13:28] <yofel> or maybe I'm just too used to krunner so I don't see anything special about the dash
[13:28] <foodstamp> if i have xubuntu 11.04 can i upgrade to ubuntu 11.04 without having to download & burn another cd?
[13:28] <jo-erlend> I'm coming from menubar to the dash. It's a major improvement for me, just like the awesomebar was back then.
[13:28] <jo-erlend> foodstamp, yes.
[13:29] <jo-erlend> foodstamp, apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[13:29] <yofel> any page that describes what zeitgeist is used for? I know what it provides, haven't seen something use it though yet
[13:29] <jo-erlend> yofel, dash does?
[13:29] <foodstamp> jo-erlend thank you
[13:29] <yofel> jo-erlend: as in?
[13:29] <JamesJRH> Can I file feature requests on Launchpad? Or is it just for bugs?
[13:29] <Pici> JamesJRH: brainstorm is usually better for feature requests
[13:29] <yofel> JamesJRH: sure you can if it's app-specific, general requests go to brainstorm
[13:30] <JamesJRH> Pici, yofel: Ok, thanks. I have accounts on both. :)
[13:32] <jo-erlend> yofel, well, in theory, you should be able to set a label for a geographic area and a time period, like "to work" for when you're on the train on your way to work in the morning and "from work" for the opposite. Then you could say "spreadsheets to work monday last week" for instance. Those features doesn't seem to be available yet though.
[13:34] <foodstamp> jo-erlend im doing that apt-get now--but one more question if you not mind--will this be a good install in the sense i wont have extra stuff installed i no need anymore--will all the xubuntu files still be on my laptop? will it be slower than a cd install? and thank you
[13:34] <jo-erlend> yofel, or if you have a customer application, you could say "emails to active customers last week", or "unresolved tasks from active customers", etc. As I said before, there's lots of room for improvement, but the opportunities really make me optimistic.
[13:36] <jo-erlend> foodstamp,you'll still have everything from xubuntu. The install will be slower since it'll be a "real install" and there will be much less to download compared to downloading the full cd.
[13:38] <foodstamp> i should have worded it diffent---will the xubuntu leftovers make this kind of install a slower running after the install
[13:39] <coz_> foodstamp,  are you swtiching from xfce to gnome?
[13:41] <foodstamp> coz i think so---im going from xubuntu to ubuntu
[13:41] <jo-erlend> foodstamp, no, adding more applications doesn't make your system slower... Unless you run them all at once, but that's typically not the case.
[13:42] <sveinse> Does anyone know if it's possible to create multiple display profiles in nvidia settings? I'm using my computer under three different combinations of screens and resolutions and I find it tedious to always having to reconfigure the display setup.
[13:43] <foodstamp> i cnt get my mics to work in xubuntu and a few progrms so i thought maybe the regular ubuntu may have better support
[13:43] <coz_> sveinse,  I am not sure ,, generally I set my dual monitors manually after booting since I dont always want dual monitors,,, if no one here knows you could try in #nvidia channel
[13:44] <coz_> sveinse,  or even on nvnews forum
[13:46] <foodstamp> wow its already finished i have to reboot now
[13:51] <jo-erlend> hmm. Where does that super+w stuff come from? I've looked in ccsm, but I can't find it there?
[14:01] <elmurci> hola algien podria ayudarme
[14:01] <elmurci> no puedo reproducir videos online uso ubuntu 11,04
[14:01] <bazhang> !es | elmurci
[14:02] <foodstamp> jo-erlend everthing appears to be working -just need to get used to the big sidebar---thanks for you help
[14:02] <jo-erlend> you're welcome. :)
[14:02] <jo-erlend> have fun exploring. And give it some time. I'm sure it'll grow on you.
[14:03] <foodstamp> im sure it will but it is big
[14:04] <foodstamp> do i need to delete the xubuntu stuff---when i rebooted it still giving me a choice to log in to xubuntu
[14:04] <mfraz74> i seem to be having problems with wireless on this netbook now I've upgraded to 11.04 - it keeps stopping
[14:05] <mfraz74> the connection speed stays at 54MB/s, but the traffic suddenly drops to nothing
[14:06] <mfraz74> seems to stay up for about 20 secs before dropping off again
[14:07] <mfraz74> using ath9k driver
[14:08] <rocky> i don't suppose there's anyway to tell banshee to "shutdown" besides going to a terminal and typing "killall banshee-1" ?
[14:09] <KM0201> anybody figured out why vlc freezes the entire system, constantly?... i thought it was a problem w/ compiz/unity at first.. so i tried it on xubuntu 11.10, and its happening there to.
[14:09] <bazhang> KM0201, 11.10?
[14:09] <KM0201> bazhang, affirmative
[14:09] <bazhang> that does not exist yet
[14:10] <KM0201> lol
[14:10] <KM0201> sorry
[14:10] <KM0201> 11.04 (had a long easter)
[14:11] <mfraz74> any ideas?
[14:11] <JamesJRH> rocky: Just close it, while no music is playing.
[14:12] <yofel> mfraz74: NM puts the logs in /var/log/syslog, that's all I know
[14:12] <rocky> JamesJRH: closing it does not shut it down... so it just sits there, consuming 700mb of ram (resident) when it's doing absolutely nothing
[14:13] <rocky> i find it incredible that on startup of banshee it is consuming 386mb of ram
[14:14] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[14:14] <rocky> i'm having a little trouble with my hard drive so if there's much swapping (virt) going on it kills my desktop's performance... so i'm trying to keep memory consumption low
[14:16] <JamesJRH> rocky: It shuts down if there is nothing playing. The process is 'mono' for some reason.
[14:19] <rocky> JamesJRH: huh? if i "close" my banshee window and there's nothing playing... i can see using "ps -Af" that it is still in memory, it isn't shutting down
[14:34] <jibadeeha> i find that banshee is very slow at starting up - e.g. a white blank screen for a few seconds .. sticking with rhythmbox
[14:35] <mfraz74> i'm using intel video and with 10.10 the startup splash screen was fine, but now with 11.04 it is plain ascii although the shutdown screen is fine
[14:38] <yofel> broken for me too, but different hardware (bug 752628 is mine)
[14:40] <jibadeeha> works fine on my intel video, but is an intel 945GME
[14:40] <mfraz74> jibadeeha: that's what I've got - Intel 945GM/GMS/GME
[14:41] <jibadeeha> mfraz74, boot screen is fine for me but i did a clean install of 11.04 if that makes any difference
[14:41] <yofel> I'll check my netbook later, that has an 945GME too, but I have splash off there
[14:41] <mfraz74> kernel drivers in use intelfb, i915
[14:42] <mfraz74> this is the second upgrade I've done, on the laptop also with intel 945 it went fine
[14:42] <jibadeeha> i915 mod loaded on mine
[14:43] <jibadeeha> the only problem i have is sometimes (more often than not) it hangs on shutdown
[14:43] <mfraz74> also when I do update-initramfs -u I get several warnings from cryptsetup
[14:43] <yofel> hm, which reminds me that I need to check if plymouth works on nouveau again
[14:47] <zniavre_> KM0201, the vlc bug is nt related with pulseaudio (just before ram growing the sound stop no?)
[14:47] <askubuntu> hello all... im wondering if we can disable gnome-panel like we used to do in 10.10 searching in required_components in gconf-editor??
[14:47] <KM0201> zniavre_, i don't know what its related to, but its annoying
[14:47] <KM0201> completely locks up my system, etc
[14:47] <zniavre_> that s true
[14:48] <zniavre_> yes ram is growing swap too and pc is unusable
[14:48] <kyubutsu> how do i check what version of flash is currently active on chromium?  i have the libflashplayer.so [64bit 'square' from adobe] in usr/lib/chromium-browser/plugins but that folder was empty prior to this.
[14:48] <yofel> kyubutsu: open about:plugins in chromium
[14:49] <yofel> or do you want to know which file is used?
[14:50] <kyubutsu> yes
[14:50] <zniavre_> KM0201,  you should subscribe to this report maybe > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc/+bug/673462
[14:50] <KM0201> k
[14:51] <kyubutsu> there is tools/extentions in chromium, no 'plugins'  :(
[14:51] <KM0201> zniavre_, i thought it was a unity/comnpiz issue at first.. so i tried it on xubuntu 11.04  w/ the same result
[14:52] <zniavre_> yes i m not using unity and it happen to me also
[14:52] <KM0201> zniavre_, subscribed, thanks.
[14:52] <zniavre_> lets dev work on it now ....
[14:52] <KM0201> yup.. :(
[14:52] <JamesJRH> rocky: The process is 'banshee',  for some reason it said 'mono' before.
[14:53] <JamesJRH> rocky: It works for me. If I close Banshee when there's nothing playing, the process is gone.
[14:54] <JamesJRH> rocky: Maybe there's a bug. Or maybe it is indexing or something.
[14:56] <kyubutsu> so.. chromium comes with its own built-in flash..  thats why i want to check which version is active since i manually put the .so in there
[14:56] <kyubutsu> :(
[14:57] <kyubutsu> unfortunately, i think all them flash .so files have the same name too!   :o
[14:57] <yofel> well, opening about:plugins tells me that it's using 10.3 d162 here
[14:58] <yofel> didn't find more info for the version :/
[14:58] <yofel> also, chromium doesn't come with it's own flash, only chrome
[14:59] <kyubutsu> it has to.. i ran chromium thru youtube before manually putting 'square' in there. worked.
[15:01] <izinucs> kyubutsu: what it came with was not adobe's flash but the gpl'd version.. forgot what it's called.. icetea?
[15:01] <JamesJRH> kyubutsu: You don't need flash for YouTube anymore. :)
[15:02] <JamesJRH> izinucs: Gnash.
[15:02] <kyubutsu> about isnt telling me anything about plugins.. you must be on chrome , yofel
[15:03] <JamesJRH> kyubutsu: Put 'about:plugins' in the address bar.
[15:03] <izinucs> JamesJRH: Gnash .. oh yea... works mostly but for some things it fails.. work sites I use that have a combo of flash and java need the real thing .. then some of them with the same combo also add an active X control.. *drives me crazy*
[15:04] <JamesJRH> D:
[15:05] <kyubutsu> fine, i'll do this the hard way..
[15:05]  * kyubutsu searches and uninstalls all browsers
[15:06] <kyubutsu> :-P
[15:06] <JamesJRH> kyubutsu: I have Chromium installed (certainly not Google Chrome), and I can confirm that 'about:plugins' in the address bar works.
[15:06] <kyubutsu> it was a sure shot with firefox to add that experimental flash ... but i like chromium  :(
[15:07] <kyubutsu> dammit! shame on empathy!  x-(
[15:08] <kyubutsu> i couldnt see the semicolon, empathy turned it into a  :-P
[15:08] <JamesJRH> You're using Empathy for IRC?? Shame on /you/.
[15:08] <jo-erlend> hehe
[15:08] <kyubutsu> :-P
[15:09] <kyubutsu> i know, it's awful
[15:09] <JamesJRH> for IRC, yes.
[15:09] <kyubutsu> but it looks so purty
[15:09] <jo-erlend> it's a shame that Empathy isn't better at IRC. We could really use a good IRC client in the default install if we're going to keep using it for discussions.
[15:09] <JamesJRH> It's good for IM.
[15:10] <kyubutsu> yes
[15:10] <jo-erlend> ... It's no secret that I long for a switch to XMPP though. :)
[15:10] <kyubutsu> i say, lets use irssi as backend to handle irc
[15:10] <sveinse> what do you use: xchat? chatzilla?
[15:10] <Omega> izinucs: There is gnash and there is lightspark.
[15:11] <izinucs> Omega: lightsparK?  I never heard of that one in the last 6 years.. is it new?
[15:11] <jo-erlend> I've switched back to xchat. I tried weechat for a while, but it has some annoying edges that I couldn't live with. Really like that client though.
[15:11] <JamesJRH> I used it when I started using IRC for a few weeks, but quickly got annoyed with it. I now use Irssi.
[15:11] <Omega> Yes, it is new.
[15:12] <JamesJRH> kyubutsu: I used Empathy when I started using IRC, for a few weeks, but quickly got annoyed with it. I now use Irssi.
[15:12] <Omega> Oh and btw, I misread what you asked, chromium doesn't ship gnash.
[15:12] <izinucs> Omega: interesting.. is it a fork of gnash?
[15:12] <Omega> Nope
[15:13] <sveinse> what is chromium? the FOSS version of chrome?
[15:13]  * izinucs seconds JamesJRH choice of irssi and adds screen/byobu to the mix 
[15:13] <DrHalan> hey, im looking for a messaging-menu screenlet.. so i can see on my second screen if somebody wrote me in empathy if im watching a movie for example
[15:13] <kyubutsu> i have irssi as well.. but i gave empathy the benefit of the doubt for usability testing
[15:13] <jo-erlend> sveinse, something like that.
[15:13] <Omega> https://launchpad.net/lightspark
[15:13] <Omega> sveinse: Chrome is a propietary fork on Chromium.
[15:13] <Omega> of*
[15:13] <JamesJRH> izinucs: Yep! Right now I have Irssi in Screen/Byobu!
[15:14] <JamesJRH> sveinse: Yes.
[15:14] <Omega> I just use irssi.
[15:14] <izinucs> JamesJRH: works good.. do you know how to split "screen" horizontally giving you basically 2 terminals?
[15:14] <jo-erlend> when I open a url from xchat, Firefox' icon shakes it in the launcher. But when I switch, the page is still loading. Shouldn't that annoy me when the page has been loaded or can't be loaded?
[15:15] <kyubutsu> but empathy ui style is pretty cool.  just needs irssi as backend
[15:15] <jo-erlend> heh, I didn't really mean to write that! I meant; shouldn't that notify me :)
[15:15] <Omega> jo-erlend: Well, no, it did something to firefox so firefox lets you know. If for example it was opening a malicious website, you'd want to know right away.
[15:16] <JamesJRH> izinucs: Never tried. (I have a small screen.) But there's a split option in '^A ?' that you might like to look at.
[15:16] <jo-erlend> Omega, ehrm. If it knew that it was opening a malicious website, I wouldn't want it to notify me. I would want it to not open the website. :)
[15:17] <Omega> That makes no sense sir.
[15:17] <Omega> or madam
[15:17] <Omega> OK, swap malicious with loud.
[15:17] <Omega> And you're at work.
[15:18] <kyubutsu> so, yeah, chromium is reporting the same version as you , yofel .. and thats the 'square' , right
[15:18] <jo-erlend> Omega, oh? I would want it to display a site showing me the reason why it refused to open the site.. It does that now. When that page had been loaded, I would want to be notified. If the page doesn't exist, I would like to be notified or if there is no network connection. But I'd rather not be notified that the download process of the site has begun. That just isn't interesting to me.
[15:18] <izinucs> JamesJRH: ^a ^S ... ^a TAB .. ^ac .. To shift back to the irssi window .. ^a TAB
[15:18] <JamesJRH> izinucs: BTW, I never use Byobu's keybindings, in case I have to use screen without Byobu. ^A ? is ctrl-A question mark.
[15:19] <JamesJRH> izinucs: Ok.
[15:19] <izinucs> JamesJRH: yes.. byobu keybindings should be the same..
[15:19] <izinucs> JamesJRH: afer all.. it is screen with a theme attached
[15:19] <Omega> jo-erlend: File a bug if you think it should work differently.
[15:20] <jo-erlend> Omega, I'm thinking out loud. I'm not sure I really think it should be that way yet. :)
[15:20] <izinucs> JamesJRH: you also have to pay attention to the "case" of the control characters..
[15:20] <jo-erlend> perhaps, if I open a link from another application, when Firefox has finished loading that page, it should display a bubble notification?
[15:20] <JamesJRH> izinucs: You can change that you know. ^A @, "Change keybinding set".
[15:20] <jo-erlend> that sounds better, methinks.
[15:21] <izinucs> JamesJRH: yea.. but never had a need to go there..
[15:21] <JamesJRH> izinucs: Split is not very useful for small screens like the one I'm using.
[15:21] <izinucs> JamesJRH: how small its it
[15:21] <izinucs> ?
[15:22] <Omega> izinucs: It gives you feedback that opening the link worked.
[15:22] <Omega> some people might see that nothing happened and keep trying.
[15:22] <Omega> And you end up with a bunch of opened pages, all the same.
[15:22] <JamesJRH> izinucs: Well, not too small, but smaller than many modern computers. 1024x768.
[15:23] <JamesJRH> izinucs: I prefer maximised windows.
[15:23] <izinucs> JamesJRH: that's the max rez on my IBM T-42.  works fine there.. I was thinking you were running ubuntu on something like a 7" screen :)
[15:24] <buff27> on a netbook here 1024 x 600
[15:24] <Omega> izinucs: sorry wrong person
[15:24] <Omega> jo-erlend: ^
[15:24] <izinucs> Omega: figured that :)
[15:24] <JamesJRH> izinucs: Thinkpad X60 Tablet. :)
[15:24] <jo-erlend> Omega, yes, that's true.
[15:25] <jo-erlend> it's just that I hate watching page loads and progressbars. I really hate it.
[15:25] <izinucs> JamesJRH: you're a few years ahead of my machine..
[15:25] <JamesJRH> :)
[15:25] <JamesJRH> 2nd hand.
[15:25] <Omega> jo-erlend: config firefox to open links in the background
[15:26] <Omega> then you get to stay on your loaded-tab :)
[15:26] <Omega> and you'll see when it's done loading and switch over to it
[15:26] <JamesJRH> izinucs: From: http://tier1online.co.uk/
[15:26] <izinucs> JamesJRH: same here.. old corporate laptop that the user totally locked up wth winpro that was installed.. got another from a new company and passed it to me..
[15:27] <jo-erlend> Omega, oh, yes, I have that. But when I open a link in xchat, I want to watch it as soon as its available, so when I'm notified, I switch. Thanks to Unity, I can now switch to it in less than a second after the notification, but then the page is still loading for several seconds.. I would like to save those seconds of pain and anguish :)
[15:27] <JamesJRH> izinucs: I get all my laptops from there. :)
[15:28] <JamesJRH> (I have about 3! :p )
[15:29] <buff27> Rick__, I see your up late too for a fellow aussie. Are you on the east coast?
[15:29] <izinucs> JamesJRH: I've never been overly impressed with emachines.. I've got a laptop by them that's several years old (another hand-me-down) that I've yet been able to get the wireless to work..  I bought a new Dell Vostro 1400 about 2 years ago.. works fine but I don't like their cooling. intake is on the bottom and typically gets covered by your leg :(
[15:33] <Omega> jo-erlend: Try hitting super(windows key)+w
[15:34] <Omega> and you can see your open windows, see it it's loaded, it it's not, hit super+w again to go back to your previous window
[15:35] <jo-erlend> hehe, yes, that's a possibility. I might as well just switch back and forth between firefox and xchat though. That's faster.
[15:35] <Rick__> buff27: no west coast
[15:35] <jo-erlend> oh, but I _really_ want alt+num in super+w and super+s! :/
[15:37] <JamesJRH> jo-erlend: Yes, me too.
[15:38] <jo-erlend> that's the only bottleneck I've found so far, I think. Other than that, I work much faster with Ubuntu than my computer can handle, and that's really awesome.
[15:38] <jo-erlend> I haven't felt that way since the nineties. :)
[15:39] <JamesJRH> :)
[15:39]  * genii-around hasn't felt much of anything since the 70s
[15:39] <JamesJRH> :D
[15:39] <Omega> jo-erlend: you can use the arrow keys and enter
[15:40] <yedek_p2> hello! can anyone tell me if i can see the netbeans 7 on my updates ? or not ?how can i understdnat it ?
[15:40] <Omega> jo-erlend: You should file a bug to get it added, maybe tell the guys in #compiz :)
[15:40] <jo-erlend> Omega, yes, I know, but that's inconsistent and requires a lot more of me.
[15:41] <jo-erlend> Omega, I don't know what that feature is called though.
[15:44] <rocky> odd, i just installed bzr and bzr-fastimport in natty and "bzr plugins" does not list the fastimport plugin
[15:45] <yedek_p2> how can i know if netbeans 7 will come with updates ?
[15:46] <jo-erlend> if it isn't in by now, I wouldn't expect it. I may be wrong, though. But there is a Stable Release Update process to consider.
[15:48] <robin0800> any found the blacklist system is not working
[15:50] <Omega> jo-erlend: It's called the scale plugin.
[15:52] <sveinse> How can I add a new launcher item? Specifically, I want to run "firefox -chat" to start chatzilla directly. I can create it as a desktop launcher, but how do I add it to the menus/dash?
[15:53] <jo-erlend> sveinse, drag it onto the launcher.
[15:53] <jo-erlend> oh. Onto the menus? That's not as easy, I think. Perhaps you'd have to add it to /usr/share/applications or something
[15:54] <JamesJRH> Is there some equivalent of 'Main Menu'?
[15:54] <jo-erlend> sveinse, I just tested. Just copy it to /usr/share/applications, and it gets onto the applense.
[15:55] <JamesJRH> Hmm... is there a local way of doing that?
[15:56] <JamesJRH> Like in the home dir?
[15:56] <jo-erlend> I would assume so, but i'm not sure.
[15:56] <sveinse> jo-erlend: But still. dragging into the laucher changes it's customized icon. E.g. the command "firefox -chat" puts the firefox icon in the launcher
[15:57] <jo-erlend> sveinse, oh, ok. I didn't use any icon for it. Did you, or did you just rely on the default one?
[15:58] <sveinse> I changed it from the default one
[15:58] <jo-erlend> If you're explicitly set an icon for it and it gets changed, then I'd report that as a bug.
[15:58] <jo-erlend> I can't imagine that as an intended feature.
[15:59] <sveinse> where should the bug be reported?
[15:59] <JamesJRH> sveinse: Launchpad.
[15:59] <jo-erlend> sveinse, on launchpad.net for the package "unity" in the Ubuntu project.
[15:59] <jo-erlend> sveinse, let me know if you need some help filing bugs, or visit #Launchpad.
[16:01] <sveinse> jo-erlend: No, I have an account on LP, so that's familiar. But thanks
[16:01] <jo-erlend> great. :)
[16:01] <kyubutsu> ubuntu classic is the only way you can have use of 'main menu' configurations
[16:01] <kyubutsu> as in ubuntu classic session
[16:03] <jo-erlend> hmm. There used to be a zeitgeist "overview" application where I could see what it "has on me". Does anyone know if that's still available, and if so, what it's called?
[16:06] <jo-erlend> oh, it's called gnome-activity-journal. If anyone has it installed, can you check if you can run it? Or if you don't, can you install it and see? :)
[16:06] <jo-erlend> it crashes here.
[16:07] <sveinse> My chromium complains about not being my default browser and when I set it as default (within Chromium) is still isn't set as the default browser. Bug?
[16:07] <jibadeeha> sveinse, ditto here
[16:08] <jo-erlend> sveinse, you mean in the dash? I thought that was fixed some time ago. Hmm.
[16:08] <sveinse> No. From chromium
[16:09] <jo-erlend> sveinse, hmm? I mean; if you open a terminal and echo a url, for instance. If you open that link from there, does chromium open it?
[16:09] <jo-erlend> in other words; what do you mean default browser? It can mean a couple of different things now.
[16:10] <voidr> hi, I installed Ubuntu 11.4 under virtualbox, it complained about the display driver so it disabled unity, but after I installed the drivers it still gives no option to switch back to unity, what should i do?
[16:10] <jo-erlend> voidr, you rebooted the vm?
[16:10] <penguin42> voidr: On the login screen what does it say at the bottom ?
[16:11] <voidr> yes I rebooted it
[16:11] <sveinse> 1) opening an URL from a terminal opens the page with firefox. 2) Chromium complains about not being the default browser. 3) Nothing happens if you tell chromium to become the perferred browser
[16:11] <jo-erlend> voidr, did you change back to it in the login screen? It will remember your choice between logins, so if you login with ubuntu classic in one session, it'll use that until you change back.
[16:12] <jo-erlend> sveinse, how about if you do it in preferred applications?
[16:12] <voidr> that's the funny thing, I selected Ubuntu, but it still throws me in default GNOME jo-erlend
[16:12] <jo-erlend> if that works, I'd say it's a bug in chromium.
[16:12] <jo-erlend> voidr, perhaps vbox' drivers aren't good enough?
[16:13] <voidr> I checked all the configuration options, and there is no way I can switch this back myself
[16:13] <izinucs> voidr: unity will not run in vbox
[16:13] <foodstamp> i installed ubuntu because my mics wouldnt work in xubuntu & a couple more problems and now my mics work perfect---now i have 2 additional questions--is it because ubuntu/xubuntu 11.04 is still new why i cant get "inssider" ( program) to open & also when i do a restart or log on about half the time i get to the login and then my system just freezes and i have to power off and on another time or two before it doesnt freeze durin
[16:13] <foodstamp> g login
[16:13] <sveinse> it does work. chromium still complains about not being the default brower, even when it is
[16:13] <voidr> jo-erlend, glxinfo says direct rendering yes, it should be good enough, I mean it's just a few drop shadows
[16:13] <voidr> izinucs, is that a known issue?
[16:13] <sveinse> bugreport to LP i guess?
[16:13] <izinucs> voidr: yes
[16:14] <izinucs> voidr: you can get it to work but there's a package you have to install
[16:14] <foodstamp> both problems were present in xubuntu11.04 before installing ubuntu
[16:14] <voidr> isn't a "2d" version should for unity that runs on qt?
[16:14] <jo-erlend> sveinse, configuration stuff has changed in 11.04. Perhaps chromium isn't aware of it yet?
[16:14] <voidr> *there
[16:15] <jo-erlend> foodstamp, yes, that sounds like a lower level problem, with graphics drivers, for instance.
[16:15] <Pici> voidr: Yes, its not installed by default though
[16:15] <sveinse> I just lost my IRC window, which project did you say I were to log the bug regarding laucher icon to?
[16:15] <foodstamp> jo-erland ok thank you
[16:15] <sveinse> I dont remeber who either
[16:15] <jo-erlend> sveinse, project is ubuntu, package is unity.
[16:16] <voidr> okay, well that's both sad and annoying I guess, how is the package named? is it the same thing but with a different renderer or it's a separate code? Pici
[16:16] <BluesKaj> jo-erlend, sveinse , I just installed chromium , and made it the default browser . sync it if you have it on another pc and the "become default " will work
[16:16] <sveinse> Yes then I understand, because in regards of the release it's best to log everything in the ubuntu project
[16:17] <Pici> voidr: unity-2d is the package name, and it uses qt
[16:17] <voidr> thanks Pici  you saved me a lot of time
[16:18] <sveinse> BluesKaj: Sorry, I don't understand. Sync against another PC?
[16:18] <BluesKaj> sveinse, if you have chromium on another pc, yes.
[16:19] <jo-erlend> BluesKaj, heh, that sounded a little bit hacky.
[16:19] <sveinse> I have chrome. Does that help?
[16:20] <BluesKaj> sveinse, there's a sync option in chromium preferences where all bookmarks , home page etc will be the same on other pcs
[16:21] <BluesKaj> sveinse, yes same diffeence
[16:21] <jo-erlend> it's still a bug though,
[16:21] <yofel> kyubutsu: yes, that's square for me
[16:21] <sveinse> Yeah, I'm using that. In fact that is why I'm using chrom(e|ium) to sync across all my machines and OS
[16:21] <jo-erlend> sveinse, Firefox has that too now though?
[16:22] <kyubutsu> yofel: right   :)
[16:22] <BluesKaj> I was using chrome for a while due to chromium's instability a few months back , but it seems more stable now .
[16:22] <BluesKaj> chromium that is
[16:22] <sveinse> yeah they did, but I changed when xmarks were pulling the plug. Eventually they did not pull the plug, but non the less I did the changeover
[16:23] <izinucs> Xmarks works regardless of the browser..
[16:23] <izinucs> going to google bookmarks and sync really messed up my bookmarks..
[16:24] <sveinse> I'm happy to change back. Xmarks still is good, or are there other viable players?
[16:27] <BluesKaj> izinucs, just import your bookmars rather than using xmaks
[16:27] <BluesKaj> xmarks
[16:28] <sveinse> BluesKaj: Importing is a one shot thing. xmarks strength lies in syncing the bookmaks across several machines.
[16:29] <sveinse> I'm using many permutations of machines; work vs. home, win7 vs. linux, native vs. virtual(box) and so on
[16:30] <BluesKaj> sveinse, that's why we use chrome and chromium on our machines , the sync feature does it for us
[16:31] <sveinse> I am using chrome all over now as well since I dropped xmarks when they threatened to pull the plug
[16:31] <BluesKaj> we have linux, and W7 , they all work fine
[16:32] <yofel> anyone know how to disable acceleration in nouveau? For some reason I still have gl enabled in nouveau when I boot with nouveau.noaccel=1
[16:33] <mongy> chrome ftw
[16:33] <sveinse> BluesKaj: In that respect I'd have to say dropbox is a great service, since it works across all kinds of OS. I even find it easier to exchange files from native to virtual machines using dropbox than sharing common directories!
[16:34]  * BluesKaj hasn't tried it with daughter's Imac yet ..we'll wait til she decides to try it of course...yes sveinse we use dropbox as well
[16:36] <BluesKaj> kfilebox for my linux pcs ..all linux's are kde here
[16:36] <lcb> anyone tried using (compile first) from AMD servers "AMD Catalyst™ 11.3 Proprietary Linux x86 Display Driver " instead of X.Org X server -- AMD/ATI Radeon display driver, release 1:6.14.0 ?
[16:39] <BluesKaj> sveinse, daughter was in the UK for 8mos and we sent pics and video back and forth using dropbox, very handy and easy to use.
[16:40]  * BluesKaj lives in "The Great White North" aka Canada :)
[16:40] <Guest45902> Hello, I have an Apple Magic Trackpad. I was wondering what gestures I can use with 11.04. I already figured out the three finger click to initialize the magic window movement.
[16:41] <tuhl> my evo adressbook does not work with desktopcouch: time out (2600) addresses have meen synced
[16:42] <Feldegast> does the zoom gestures work in a web browser/document?
[16:42] <JoshuaL> Feldegast, tried that but it did not work.
[16:42] <Feldegast> oh :(
[16:43]  * Feldegast should connect bluetooth and test them
[16:47] <wipmonkey> anyone using 11.04 with a palm pre for a wifi hotspot?
[16:49] <apparle> guys, from where can I upgrade to netbeans 7
[16:50] <yofel> apparle: look if there's a PPA or if netbeans has packages, neither we nor debian have nb7 packages
[16:53] <kyubutsu> saving to text file within tar.gz file succeeded!  :D
[16:53] <apparle> yofel: no ppa found
[16:54] <apparle> yofel: any idea as to how long it may take for it to arrive?
[16:54] <Pici> When was it released?
[16:55] <yofel> apparle: that's a question for natty, I don't know when that'll get updated for oneiric
[16:55] <yofel> er, question for #ubuntu-motu
[16:55] <apparle> yofel: actually I opened a project in windows and now I can't open in nb6.9
[16:55] <apparle> Pici: few days back... maybe a week
[17:36] <BluesKaj> quiet in here today and also in the  repos ..not many updates in the pipe
[17:37] <jibadeeha> was hoping to see a couple of updates today but nothing
[17:37] <penguin42> BluesKaj: Yeh the updates seem to have slowed down to the 'only fix real screwups' level
[17:45] <jibadeeha> wish they'd sort out the bug where ubuntu hangs on shutdown
[17:47] <farmer> Hi
[17:48] <farmer> Is there a way to change the full screen window buttons on the top bar? I think the default ones that are not ambiance or radiance are off-centre vertically and ugly
[17:51] <penguin42> jibadeeha: It's not one bug; for example on one of my machines that's a wireless driver bug that doesn't like being shutdown
[17:56] <jibadeeha> penguin42, ah on mine it is when i have an smb mounted .. so yeah probably right
[17:59] <BluesKaj> jibadeeha, yeah best to exit the mounted shares before shutting down
[18:05] <jibadeeha> BluesKaj, yeah until they fix it ... really hate having to do that as i am using autofs
[18:07] <brianl> I really love the menu on the left side of the screen, is there any way to keep it up all the time without having to move the mouse all the way over to the left to show it?
[18:09] <aguitel> is there somthing worg with intel graphics in natty ?
[18:11] <aguitel> i cannot boot lice cd in my system (00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82865G Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02) )
[18:13] <arand> aguitel: I would assume nothing maajor affecting a lot of users, if you boot with kernel messages on, or try different options (acpi) does it help in any way? Older/Newer liveCDs?
[18:13] <brianl> I really love the menu on the left side of the screen, is there any way to keep it up all the time without having to move the mouse all the way over to the left to show it? So stay on top?
[18:14] <jibadeeha> brianl, have you tried the compiz settings for unity
[18:14] <brianl> I have looked all through the system settings...
[18:15] <jibadeeha> instal compiz settings manage (ccsm)
[18:15] <aguitel> arand, i am booting with live cd beta2 ,no kernel message appears and no option to type acpi too
[18:16] <brianl> jibadeeha, thank you
[18:16] <BluesKaj> aguitel, does it just stall ?
[18:16] <aguitel> BluesKaj, yes
[18:17] <jibadeeha> brianl, no worries, you should find a ubuntu unity plugin within CCSM and i am sure there is an option in there to keep the dock visible
[18:17] <BluesKaj> and you want to install ubuntu from the livecd I assume , aguitel
[18:17] <aguitel> BluesKaj, i want to try first in my system ,no i am with 10.04
[18:18] <aguitel> BluesKaj, i say now i am with 10.04
[18:18] <BluesKaj> !alternate | aguitel
[18:19] <aguitel> BluesKaj, with this cd alternative can i make upgrade from 10.04 to 11.04 ?
[18:20] <BUGabundo> hey oh
[18:21] <brianl> jibadeeha, Thanks a lot
[18:22] <arand> aguitel: From the boot menu in advanced you should be able to swithc acpi off before boot, likewise go in and edit the kernel boot options to not include "quiet splash"
[18:22] <jibadeeha> no worries :)
[18:22] <aguitel> arand, in live cd ?
[18:23] <arand> aguitel: In the boot menu, yes, I think it is via F6
[18:23] <aguitel> arand, i will try ,thanks
[18:32] <LordMael> Hello :)
[18:32] <LordMael> just wondering if anyone has had an issue upgrading from 10.10 to 11.04 and losing their xserver
[18:32] <zenrox> not me
[18:33] <zenrox> but i upgraded useing upgrade manager
[18:33] <LordMael> ya me too
[18:33] <zenrox> the command i used was sudo upgrade-manager -d
[18:33] <LordMael> i'm going to do some more checking just odd.  seems it lost the ATI drivers during the upgrade now that i'm digging more
[18:34] <JoshuaL> Hello, I have an Apple Magic Trackpad. I was wondering what gestures I can use with 11.04. I already figured out the three finger click to initialize the magic window movement.
[18:35] <zenrox> didja search on the wiki
[18:38] <JoshuaL> zenrox, when i search for gestures at wiki.ubuntu.com I only get a page for developers
[18:38] <zenrox> hmm
[18:39] <trism> JoshuaL: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Multitouch/GettingStarted/Natty there are 4 listed here, I don't know if any of them work (although it lists the one you mentioned)
[18:39] <JoshuaL> trism, cool thanks :)
[18:39] <sveinse> what does "Triaged" mean in LP?
[18:39] <JoshuaL> trism, they seem to work :D
[18:40] <zenrox> means is was examanid and handed to the aproate dev
[18:40] <JoshuaL> trism, thanks :)
[18:40] <jo-erlend> sveinse, triage is a medical term where there are too many patients for the doctors to handle. The triage process is a sorting process where it is figured out what to do, what not to do and what to do first.
[18:41] <yofel> zenrox, sveinse: unless it's assigned, it simply means the bug is an actual bug and has enough information on it for a developer to start working on it
[18:41] <zenrox> i was close enuff
[18:41] <zenrox> lol
[18:42] <sveinse> jo-erlend: interesting. Especially when I'm working in the medical area... :o
[18:42] <jo-erlend> :)
[18:43] <sveinse> I am writing a bug report. What is the official name for the left hand side row of icons? Launcher?
[18:43] <jo-erlend> sveinse, the same works for bugs though. There are a lot more bugs than there are people to work on them.
[18:43] <jo-erlend> sveinse, yes, I think they call it the launcher. It belongs to the Unity package though.
[18:43] <arand> sveinse: Probably "unity"
[18:44] <zenrox> id agree with unity
[18:44] <arand> sveinse: The best way to report the bug is to run "ubuntu-bug unity" in the terminal, which should pick up version number and some data around it and attach that automatically to the bug.
[18:45] <JoshuaL> I know use gestures to show the unity launcher, is it normal that it doesnt auto hide unless I click an app or unhide it manualy with an gesture?
[18:45] <arand> Unless you definitely know that the data won't matter it's oftena good idea to do so.
[18:45] <sveinse> I am using ubuntu-bug. But bug reports works best if we name the same things equally ;)
[18:46] <arand> Indeed, although, one shouldn't be to afraid of reporting a bug against the wrong target, it can be easily changed afterwards.
[18:47] <jo-erlend> that's true. I'd use "unity" as the package name and "launcher" when referring to it in the report.
[18:47] <sveinse> "The thing in the top left corner does not work" :D
[18:56] <myk_robinson> any one else having an issue with Gimp and the new drag handles, like when trying to scroll through fonts?
[18:57] <sveinse> Tell me, have ubuntu run out of distinctive names?  The unit search is called dash, which is also a shell. A custom program on the desktop is called a launcher which in turn can be moved into the unity's launcher...
[19:01] <LordMael> ok i got the classic working but not unity :D i'm making progress :D
[19:03] <robin0800> LordMael, you can always try unity 2d
[19:04] <LordMael> robin0800: in theory it should work in 3d :) just issues with the ATI card it seems.  I'm reading through the forums to see what i'm missing :D
[19:06] <vinsonizer> i've noticed that gnome-screensaver seems to fail to launch on my natty install
[19:06] <vinsonizer> the screen goes white and i have to kill gnome-screensaver to get back in
[19:08] <MickStep> Ian_Corne: an update from the @home thing I sense you were a bit skeptical of, this is the correct line in fstab
[19:09] <MickStep> UUID=6e2d8107-ab82-4e4e-8192-35838be4c944 /home           btrfs   defaults,subvol=@home 0       2
[19:09] <MickStep> what the subvol achieves I have no idea
[19:11] <arand> sveinse: Well the did come up with the rather odd "lens" for items on the dash, iirc
[19:11] <Ian_Corne> ah subvol
[19:12] <Ian_Corne> my (uneducated) guess would be that it mounts a subdirectory of the device as a device
[19:12] <Ian_Corne> you could try by deleting the subvol bit?
[19:13] <Ian_Corne> it's something with btrfqs
[19:13] <Ian_Corne> https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/UseCases#Snapshots_and_subvolumes
[19:13] <Rods_Tiger> Since I upgraded to natty, minidlna has ceased to function correctly. I see the correct folders on my WDTV Live, as before, but it complains there's no media now. Nothing had changed in my minidlna setup, which worked before the natty upgrade.
[19:15] <roasted__> If I install the gnome shell PPA would I ruin anything on my 11.04 install with Unity?
[19:15] <roasted__> I want to be able to go back to Unity without issue if need be
[19:16] <arand> Ian_Corne: Someone mentioned btrfs? I've poked around with mounting subvolumes a bit...
[19:17] <Ian_Corne> MickStep: has an issue with it
[19:18] <Ian_Corne> roasted__: yes
[19:18] <Ian_Corne> last I tried
[19:18] <Ian_Corne> It messes up everything
[19:18] <Ian_Corne> and it didn't even work..
[19:18] <robin0800> roasted__, it used to kill unity or perhaps that was only gnome shell
[19:19] <roasted__> I'd just like to test out gnome shell next to unity.
[19:19] <roasted__> maybe I should just dual boot two ubuntu's
[19:19] <roasted__> one GS one unity
[19:19] <roasted__> my opinion of gnome shell was a sour one, but I havent used it since... geez... november?? september? I want to see what htye've done since then.
[19:20] <arand> roasted__: I think you'd get better gnome-shell experiance doal-booting something like openSUSE or Fedora, presumably, since the PPA is and will likely remain a bit flaky...
[19:20] <MickStep> Ian_Corne: I no longer have an issue, I was just updating, just incase anyone else comes across it
[19:20] <Ian_Corne> ah ok :)
[19:20] <Ian_Corne> so you removed the subvol?
[19:21] <MickStep> nah, thought I'd keep it
[19:21] <arand> The rootflags=subvol=@ is the default way for ubuntu to mount the root filesystem if it is on btrfs
[19:22] <MickStep> I reinstalled Natty, but this time let the installer do the work of adding my pre existing home partition instead of doing it myself after the install
[19:22] <tmb_> I'm having problems installing 11.04 on a laptop: the install stalls after getting all my account information.  Any suggestions for what I should do?
[19:22] <lcb> mannn.. this gnome-display-properties aka Monitors is really a pain for duals
[19:22] <MickStep> I would have done it the first time but I wanted to see how the new improved installer works
[19:22] <arand> Unless you have intalled btrfs in a custom way (or have an old install), or used set-default, it will be required.
[19:22] <MickStep> I didn't expect it to be as forthright as it is
[19:22] <macca> hey, what is the minimum memory(MB) natty will support
[19:23] <Ian_Corne> unchanged I thinjk
[19:23] <roasted__> I'm not so sure I like the way the top panel changes on the fly depending upon whether or not your mouse is hovering over it
[19:23] <roasted__> it removes my ability to minimize windows that arent my primary window. very minor but I didnt realize it would trip me up as much as it has been.
[19:23] <Ian_Corne> Yeah that's a bity weird
[19:24] <MickStep> roasted__: I don't like that either, and I read somewhere mpt wrote that after doing user observations, it confused the hell out of everyone they tested it on
[19:24] <Ian_Corne> I don't see why it changes
[19:24] <Ian_Corne> why not just keep it ..
[19:24] <tmb_> Again, 11.04 stalls during install on pretty mainstream, simple hardware that's running 10.10 just fine.  Any suggestions for what I should do?
[19:24] <roasted__> If that top panel would be normal, the ability to minimize programs by clicking on them in the unity bar, and being able to have the unity bar on my right monitor, I'd be a solid fan for life.
[19:25] <macca> is natty stable enough for virtualisation to work
[19:25] <traskers> So, after having trouble with 10.10>11.04 upgrade, I'm having the same problem with a fresh install of 11.04 -- I'm missing the Ubuntu icon located directly above the Unity launcher on the top-left, can anyone help me to get this?
[19:26] <lars_t_h> tmb_, use the alernative install iso
[19:26] <MickStep> here: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg05539.html If MPT thinks it sucks and user testing shows it sucks.. why the hell leave it turned on
[19:26] <arand> macca: Guest or host?
[19:26] <tmb_> Thanks; is there a way of getting a log file or see where the install stalls on the regular install?
[19:26] <KM0201> when is the release candidate out?
[19:26] <Pici> There is no RC
[19:26] <MickStep> something tells me this might be a Mark Shuttleworth executive decision
[19:27] <MickStep> release on the 28th
[19:27] <tmb_> /var/log/install didn't contain anything, and neither did the virtual consoles.
[19:27] <KM0201> Pici, are they not going to release one?.. i know the 28th is the release date
[19:27] <sveinse> How can I find the panel icon for an application. My spotify client is playing but there's no icon for it anywhere
[19:27] <lars_t_h> tmb_ logfiles are in /var/log dmesg are messages from the kernel fx
[19:27] <lcb> macca, pretty much, you might need to tweak a bit. if you go for vbox there is a new release for natty, not yet in repos.
[19:27] <MickStep> KM0201: basically easter holidays rendered a RC pointless
[19:27] <Pici> KM0201: Right.  It goes Beta 1, Beta 2, Release.
[19:27] <KM0201> MickStep, uh.. i guess.. not sure why easter would effect it, but ok
[19:28] <KM0201> Pici, hmm, ok.. never remember them doing that before..
[19:28] <Daekdroom> KM0201, this is the exception.
[19:28] <tmb_> KM0201 Europe basically shuts down the week before Easter and a few days after Easter.
[19:28] <sveinse> Oh. *that* is cool. Spotify is now found under the sound icon.
[19:28] <roasted__> MickStep: at this point with it being 3 days away I'm afriad it might not be changed, although it is extremely irritating.
[19:28] <KM0201> ohhh.. ok tmb_ then that makes a ilttle more sense
[19:29] <MickStep> roasted__: it definitely won't be changed, but i see no reason not to change it
[19:29] <MickStep> just turn the damn thing off by default
[19:29] <roasted__> MickStep: is it customizable at the user level.
[19:29] <roasted__> or am I stuck with it
[19:29] <KM0201> roasted__, yeah, its given me its fair share of frustration, but for the most part, it seems OK.. although my old laptop constantly choked on Ubuntu 11.04, so I went w/ Xubuntu 11.04, and thus far, its much better
[19:29] <MickStep> roasted__: think there is a gconf or dconf setting
[19:29] <Daekdroom> Turning it off would break the UserInterfaceFreeze, MickStep
[19:29] <roasted__> so wait
[19:30] <roasted__> This feature is hated by the world, yet Ubuntu has it enabled.
[19:30] <roasted__> And turning it off would break everything?
[19:30] <roasted__> Fricken sweet...
[19:30] <MickStep> Daekdroom: The logic in that is silly, rukes are meant to be broken
[19:30] <Daekdroom> The documentation team needs sometime to work. The UI can't change for any reason.
[19:31] <Daekdroom> MickStep, really, if they were to change that, they wouldn't do it this late.
[19:31] <tmb_> lars_t_h thanks; I had checked that.  It's not a kernel problem.  I would like to know what state the install is in, and there doesn't seem a log for that.
[19:31] <roasted__> well that sucks
[19:31] <roasted__> I hope gnome shell is far better than what it was in november.
[19:32] <roasted__> I'm not feeling this unity thing anymore.
[19:32] <MickStep> Daekdroom: What did they even do user interface tests on real people if they still had to ship whatever lame duck decisions anyway
[19:33] <trism> roasted__: is this about the global menu? you can turn it off by uninstalling indicator-appmenu; if it is about the window min/max/close buttons in maximized windows, I don't know about that
[19:33] <tmb_> (I turned off Unity; I think it's not ready for prime time yet...)
[19:33] <jibadeeha> i am really liking unity .. i wasn't so sure a few months ago when looking at screenshots, but now i am using it full time i find it really slick
[19:33] <Pici> heh
[19:33] <roasted__> trism: I'm just not a fan of the way it auto changes when I hover over the top. I'd rather just see file/edit/view there for whatever app I'm in.
[19:34] <roasted__> then again if I have multiple ifrefox's open the title bar is nice
[19:34] <arand> MickStep: Possibly a fair of these issues will be adressed in the next release. I'm not sure it's as horrendous and issue as pictured to be..
[19:34] <Daekdroom> roasted__, I don't see anything wrong in that specific point.
[19:34] <MickStep> arand: Not for me, I can get used to things
[19:35] <Daekdroom> There are worse issues, like having an unmaximized window at the bottom of the screen show up its menu at the top..
[19:35] <trism> roasted__: I agree, there was a bug about it but it got marked invalid because it was a design decision, I was going to attempt to fix it, but it seems like I'd need to recompile unity, which I'm not really interested in at the moment
[19:35] <sveinse> I installed natty yesterday, and my first first impression were "cool", then it was moved more like "oh. I cant customize that. Or that. Or that". I've decided I'll keep testing unity this week and then I'll decide.
[19:35] <roasted__> Daekdroom: well now that I kind of questioned the "what if I had two windows open" thing I can see its use
[19:35] <MickStep> but I know I wont be installing this on any of my friends computers
[19:35] <traskers> So, after having trouble with 10.10>11.04 upgrade, I'm having the same problem with a fresh install of 11.04 -- I'm missing the Ubuntu icon located directly above the Unity launcher on the top-left, can anyone help me to get this?
[19:35] <roasted__> MickStep: what will you be installing then?
[19:35] <Pici> traskers: I don't think its supposed to be there.
[19:35] <Daekdroom> roasted__, well, I'd like it if the menu showed up in the title bar for non-maximized windows.
[19:35] <sveinse> I really miss having a panel to put a list of the open apps on that workspace and having a workspace pager which can be clicked *once*
[19:35] <MickStep> well I'll leave them on maverick, or if I do upgrade them to natty I'll remove the global menu
[19:36] <traskers> http://cdn.unixmen.com/images/stories/Gnome/gnome3-u11.04/ub-unity1.png the icon in the top-left
[19:36] <traskers> Pici ^^
[19:36] <alket> Hi, I want to update bluefish from this PPA https://launchpad.net/~klaus-vormweg/+archive/ppa , but I want just bluefish not other applications that are included there, how do I do that ?
[19:36] <LordMael> i think i'll wait for official release of 11.xx before fighting too much with getting unity to work :)
[19:36] <Pici> traskers: Hrm.  I guess that should probably be answered by someone who actually uses Unity ;)
[19:36] <MickStep> alket: do you use any of there other applications in that ppa?
[19:37] <roasted__> the absolute BIGGEST problem I have with unity is the darn dual screen thing.
[19:37] <sveinse> since it's freezed I doubt there will be significant changes from today until thursday though
[19:37] <roasted__> If I want my unity bar on my right monitor (whcih is my main) then damnit, I want it on my right/main monitor. Not the whole friggen way on the left.
[19:37] <MickStep> if not then just do sudo add-apt-repository ppa:klaus-vormweg/ppa && sudo apt-get install bluefish
[19:37] <alket> MickStep, I don't think so, but i dont know if ubuntu in systenm uses them
[19:38] <MickStep> nah those are all apps, no libraries, and non of that software ships with ubuntu
[19:38] <alket> thank you MickStep
[19:38] <MickStep> pan is a good application for reading newsgroups though, would recommend pan
[19:39] <sveinse> I guess unity will undergo a lot of improvement over the next weeks. There will be *lots* of complaints about it (IMHO) if it is released as it is today
[19:39] <MickStep> sveinse: any improvements wont make it back to natty
[19:40] <MickStep> natty will stay as it is except bug fixes
[19:41] <MickStep> I'm gonna go right into the oneiric alpha on release day I think
[19:41] <sveinse> I'm not against unity. It's just obtrusive to my work flow because I can't customize it the way I need
[19:41] <LordMael> i just don't feel like digging that hard to get unity working today :)  i'm sure if i spent some actual time on it i oculd get it working
[19:41] <padster> u know if u can use gnome 3/gtk3 with ubuntu 11.04 beta?
[19:41] <BluesKaj> why do you that MickStep , are you privy to inside info ?
[19:41] <BluesKaj> say
[19:41] <jibadeeha> one improvement i would like to see to unity is when i have an app like xchat minimised and it notifies me of an event (e.g. incoming message) by wiggling the icon ... sometimes i might miss the animation, so it would be good if the icon changed colour or flashed to indicate i missed something.. not sure if that makes sense
[19:41] <MickStep> padster: there is a gnome 3 ppa
[19:41] <arand> !gnome3 | padster
[19:42] <MickStep> BluesKaj: It just makes sense that they must have a LOT of changes they have made since UI freeze that will be merged very early into the oneiric cycle
[19:42] <trism> jibadeeha: the launcher api has support for emblems and counters, so xchat could probably be pretty easily modified to support that
[19:43] <padster> how about on debian?
[19:43] <padster> i want to try it out
[19:43] <padster> (gnome3)
[19:43] <MickStep> BluesKaj: Makes sense no?
[19:43] <Pici> padster: Ask a debian channel.
[19:43] <jibadeeha> trism, i hope it gets modified as it is something i really miss .. good to hear the api supports it though
[19:43] <arand> padster: Still incompletet there as well, use fedora/opensuse for now
[19:44] <padster> arand: okay, i guess
[19:44] <MickStep> Anyone know if update-manager -d will work to upgrade to oneiric before first alpha is released
[19:44] <padster> so can i just download the latest fedora 15? or do i need something extra
[19:44] <Pici> MickStep: Likely. It may not work afterwards though.
[19:44] <arand> padster: I would guess that the state of gnome3 in debian might be on par with the PPA, but yea, most of it is in experimental  for a reason.
[19:45] <BluesKaj> MickStep, I can'r see them just fixing s few bugs and calling it new look with Unity as the  default on systems that can handle the graphics
[19:45] <sveinse> Close to giving up unity, how is KDE on natty doing?  (Yes I know about gnome classic, but using it isn't going forward)
[19:46] <roasted__> lol. kde
[19:46] <arand> padster: LiveCD to test, DVD to install I would guess, mind that you might want to not install fedora's grub-legacy and use ubuntu's grub2 to boot both instead.
[19:46] <yofel> sveinse: works for me
[19:46] <roasted__> kde has always been that false hope for me.
[19:46] <MickStep> BluesKaj: You've lost me, I'm not sure what you're getting at.
[19:46] <roasted__> I always try it out with huge expectations and each time I'm reminded on why I don't use it.
[19:46] <BluesKaj> MickStep, personally it doesn't matter to me ..a kde user all the  way
[19:46] <nit-wit> sveinse, I use xubunbtu full compiz allowed
[19:46] <zenrox> xfce user here
[19:47] <yofel> roasted__: I think kde and gnome are pretty much on par with usability currently, they just differ a lot in how they do things and liking it depends on how much you're used to one
[19:47] <padster> arand: but it comes with gnome 3?
[19:47] <roasted__> I agree. I just work in a production environment, so I have to be extremely calculated on what I do here and how I implement it. So far, KDE just hasn't gotten on that par yet.
[19:48] <BluesKaj> MickStep, Unity is a problem for pcs that can't handle 3D & DiR , so leaving it the way it is will do the unity change m,ore harm than good IMO
[19:49] <roasted__> BluesKaj: there's always xfce, and gnome 2
[19:49] <roasted__> besides, unity seems to be a very small graphical footprint.
[19:49] <roasted__> Even on my old old old desktop at home, it runs fine on it.
[19:49] <BluesKaj> roasted__, and KDE :)
[19:49] <MickStep> BluesKaj: Yeah, but there's rules, they can't go about changing an interface after release
[19:49] <roasted__> KDE doesnt run to save its life on that desktop.
[19:49] <yofel> BluesKaj: I agree, but that goes away once they actually ship unity-2d
[19:49] <arand> padster: Yes
[19:49] <sveinse> what are the future for gnome classic then? Is it going for obsolescence, or will it always be supported as an alternative?
[19:49] <MickStep> I just cant see canonical breaking those rules, it's not a rolling release
[19:50] <padster> okay, i'll start downloading it now
[19:50] <arand> MickStep: I would guess the won't either, at least not in any major ways
[19:50] <yofel> sveinse: it will be supported in natty, what oneiric will have isn't decided yet
[19:51] <arand> The guess is that oo with have unity+unity2d and no classic gnome fallback, although that is speculation..
[19:51] <BluesKaj> rules are written in stone ?, a drastic change like Unity override them to make the thing workable , MickStep
[19:51] <MickStep> I mean, some applications actually cease to work after release, say if they communicate with webservers through an api and there is an api change
[19:52] <BluesKaj> should override
[19:52] <arand> BluesKaj: They will have to be very careful breaking UI when it comes to documentation, it would be a huge job redoing things there.
[19:52] <MickStep> hell, on one release JOSM changed their api before ubuntu release but after import freeze
[19:53] <yofel> well, we have SRUs for such fixes
[19:53] <padster> what, you can't install off the live disc, there's a separate disc for that>
[19:53] <padster> *?
[19:53] <MickStep> so ubuntu shipped with a JOSM package in it's repositories that never worked for the entire life cycle
[19:53] <BluesKaj> intersting times for ubuntu ...let's hope the old chinese curse doesn't apply here
[19:53] <MickStep> true story
[19:53] <roasted__> unity isnt exclusive to ubuntu, is it
[19:54] <yofel> it's a shell for gnome, so other distros could ship it too, depends if they want to do that
[19:54] <padster> roasted__: idk how you would install it on anything else
[19:54] <Rods_Tiger> Since I upgraded to natty, minidlna has ceased to function correctly. I see the appropriate folders from my WDTV Live, as before, but it complains there's no media now. Nothing had changed in my minidlna setup, which worked before the natty upgrade.
[19:54] <arand> BluesKaj: And yet more interesting for the likes of mint, fedora, kubuntu ;)
[19:54] <roasted__> lol rpm
[19:54] <BluesKaj> kde is fine right now arand
[19:54] <roasted__> not sure I'd agree with that
[19:55] <roasted__> although, KDE is a helluva lot nicer than it used to be.
[19:55] <roasted__> I still find their font choices and certain alignments of the interface to be total wtf though.
[19:55] <yofel> well, KDE is still working out issues, but getting better all the time
[19:55] <roasted__> true story
[19:55] <yofel> I just hope that gnome 3.0 will be better than KDE 4.0
[19:55] <BluesKaj> well, kde is working well in it's present version ,on my pcs at least
[19:55] <roasted__> can you get any worse than kde 4.0? :P
[19:55] <yofel> the PPA doesn't work for me at least :P
[19:56] <padster> roasted__: prolly not ^^
[19:56] <yofel> agreed
[19:56] <roasted__> I don't think it'll be nearly as bad as kde 4.0. I think that catastrophe is still fresh in everyone's minds.
[19:57] <Feldegast> i have been trying kde since beta 2, it has bugs but is usable, mostly mindow placment and decoration
[19:57] <Feldegast> *window
[19:57] <arand> BluesKaj: That's what I meant, for one or the other reasons, these distros might see quite a few new users..
[19:57] <BluesKaj> 4.6.2  works well on natty ...roaste d4..0 ..that's history
[19:57] <BluesKaj> arand, no doubt
[19:57] <roasted__> It might be history. I don't hold 4.6 to the same standard I would with 4.0.
[19:58] <roasted__> Point is, 4.0 was just THAT bad that I still feel like they're playing a catch up game. Even with newer releases.
[19:58] <torchie> man
[19:58] <torchie> people really seem to hate 4.0
[19:58] <roasted__> As if there's something to like?
[19:58] <arand> And I assume we'll have to regard Unity in some ways as KDE4.0, and 11.04 isn't an LTS, for what it's worth
[19:58] <roasted__> very true
[19:59] <BluesKaj> roasted__, give it up ... did 4.0 really scar you that much :) ?
[19:59] <Pici> I was just making that same comparison elsewhere earlier.
[19:59] <roasted__> I'm not even sure why I'm running 10.10 on my machines here at work. I really should be on an LTS.
[19:59] <Pici> How pleasant.
[19:59] <roasted__> BluesKaj: you're preaching KDE is great. I'm preaching I still have issues with it.
[20:00] <BluesKaj> I didn't like 4.0 at first either ..but now a fait accompli
[20:00] <roasted__> while we're on topic, which version ships with 11.04?
[20:00] <Feldegast> thing i hated about 4.0 is apps that needed 3 didn't work with 4 (eg some of the games still are not working)
[20:00] <Pici> Oops, wrong channel.
[20:00] <BluesKaj> 4.6.2
[20:00] <roasted__> I didn't even feel it was usable until 4.4 or 4.5. I forget which. 4.6 was pretty sexy when I used it, though.
[20:01] <Feldegast> seeing strange things in kde with beta 2
[20:01] <roasted__> Its customizability is sick nasty amazing too. But I just cant bring myself to like the way things are presented to me. I don't feel as though it's that clean.
[20:04] <BluesKaj> there are some wifi issues in kde with chips other than atheros and broadcom , but so far most of those have porblems that are reasonbly easy to fix
[20:04] <yofel> how are those issues with KDE? Not that KNM doesn't have it's issues
[20:05] <roasted__> broadcom itself is an issue with all of linux in my opinion...
[20:05] <roasted__> I avoid them like the plague.
[20:05] <BluesKaj> definitely not a knetworkmanager fan ...that's one of the weak HW apps that needs more work
[20:06] <Feldegast> issues i am seeing are display (window placment/decoration)
[20:08] <Feldegast> window decoration has gaps in the borders
[20:08] <Feldegast> and the tasks have a new pannel sort of linked to them that does very strange things
[20:09] <Feldegast> currently that pannel is just above the middle of my screen
[20:09] <Feldegast> so when i click on a task that has multiple windows, the popup is 1/2 way up the screen
[20:10] <Feldegast> if i move the pannel with tasks to the top of the screen this other pannel also moves but is still in a strange place
[20:12] <Feldegast> anyone else seeing these?
[20:14] <dekela> Hi all
[20:15] <dekela> Just wanted to say: Great Job on the last Beta!! Smooth Installation on Macbook 5,2 including Propriety Drivers
[20:15] <lcb> some of it Feldegast. but keep the hope alive. wait to see the light at the end of the monitor.
[20:17] <BluesKaj> Feldegast, sorry dunno what you mean by "strange place".
[20:17] <lcb> dekela, thanks a lot. they appreciate you being a happy "client".
[20:18] <dekela> I have a strange issue that happens from time to time ..
[20:18] <topyli> so, is there any 'purekde' documentation updated for natty? i've played with ubuntu-desktop enough now :)
[20:18] <dekela> My mouse left click stops working
[20:18] <lcb> BluesKaj, means misplaced, a place it were not suppose to be.
[20:18] <Feldegast> lcb oh i can use it while it is broken, just wanted to check i was not the only one seeing these things
[20:18] <dekela> Only when I use my touchpad and then back to the mouse it starts to work again
[20:19] <lcb> Feldegast, naaaa. there are issues for some, good things for others.
[20:19] <Feldegast> BluesKaj the bar is 1/2 a screen away from where it probably should be, also should be invisible
[20:20] <BluesKaj> lcb, I meant what does Feldegast consider strange
[20:20] <Feldegast> the bar looks like a 1 line text box that can not be typed into
[20:21] <Feldegast> that has a bigger box around it 4 times as high
[20:21] <BluesKaj> Feldegast, ok some window themes aren't quite stable yet
[20:21] <lcb> BluesKaj, i understand his feelings. matter of fact i just opened a channel #ComplaintBook . Only to burn our frustrations while final isn't out.
[20:22] <Feldegast> do you recommend a good theme to use that is less buggy?
[20:22] <lcb> Feldegast, use the default by now
[20:23] <lcb> Feldegast, or... classic desktop. works fine.
[20:23] <BluesKaj> plastik , Feldegast
[20:24] <kyubutsu> nouveau is working quite effectively on this radeon5450. effects and all. am impressed. gonna run secondlife and see if 3d rendering keeps up ...
[20:24] <BluesKaj> lcb, he's on kde I believe
[20:24] <Feldegast> yep looks like a theme issue from the previews, will try a few
[20:24] <yofel> kyubutsu: erm, nouveau is a driver for nvidia cards. I guess you mean the open source ati driver
[20:25] <kyubutsu> oops  o.0
[20:25] <kyubutsu> right!  :D
[20:25] <Feldegast> Oxygen by Sean Wilson <- is what i was using if that helps
[20:25] <yofel> Feldegast: I think I've seen what you mean that a small line is empty in the window borders, it comes and goes for me
[20:26] <Feldegast> yofel it stays in the background for me, i can ignore it
[20:26] <lcb> proprietary for my ATI Technologies Inc M92 [Mobility Radeon HD 4500 Series] is not working as it should on one machine.
[20:26] <BluesKaj> vistairglass is a nice one that seems fairly stable , Feldegast
[20:28] <Feldegast> trying that now
[20:28] <xu-buntu> good evening
[20:28] <Feldegast> back soon need to restart this app
[20:29] <lcb> good one to you too, xu-buntu
[20:29] <xu-buntu> i have a problem installing xubuntu 11.04 beta2
[20:29] <xu-buntu> I put the ISO on an USB stick ... and when I start the install process ... it dies with ERRNO 5 io problem
[20:29] <xu-buntu> but when installing ubuntu 11.04 beta from another USB stick ... to the same partition ... works out fine.
[20:29] <xu-buntu> any idea, anyone?
[20:30] <lcb> xu-buntu, burn the iso with unetbootin. format it before with fat32
[20:30] <xu-buntu> lcb: that is what i did
[20:30] <xu-buntu> and I just checked the md5susm of the ISO ... valid
[20:31] <mongy> could just dd the iso to it :)
[20:31] <yofel> xu-buntu: which iso was that?
[20:31] <xu-buntu> yofel: xubuntu-11.04-beta2-desktop-i386.iso
[20:32] <industrial> I have updated to 11.10 on my macbook pro 7,1 and now my ubuntu will not boot. It's stuck on "Checking battery state ..." or somesuch during boot, and I don't know how to fix that, and can't find anything about it on google.
[20:32] <xu-buntu> 716775424 2011-04-13 14:29 xubuntu-11.04-beta2-desktop-i386.iso
[20:32] <xu-buntu> 9ad5e02a17f17a6d66b2c9a7776844a3  xubuntu-11.04-beta2-desktop-i386.iso
[20:32] <xu-buntu> to be precise
[20:32] <yofel> xu-buntu: you can try one of the relesae builds currently in testing once the images are up again http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[20:32] <farmer> Hi. I have an NTFS drive with Windows software installed on it. I am attempting to run this software in WINE, but it says it does not have its executable bit enabled. When I try to enable this in the properties, the checkbox clears itself after each attempt. How can I do this another way or fix it? I'm running Natty.
[20:34] <xu-buntu> yofel: when will they be up? rough guess?
[20:34] <lcb> xu-buntu, can you past the complete error line?
[20:34] <xu-buntu> lcb: sorry, I didnt save it
[20:34] <yofel> xu-buntu: the images are bein respun currently, should be done in an hour or two I think
[20:35] <xu-buntu> lcb: it happened a few seconds after formatting the partition ... when copying started
[20:35] <xu-buntu> it mentioned IO error 5. that either my HD is bad or the source media
[20:35] <yofel> farmer: you can't change executable permissions on window drives after mounting it, .bat .com and .exe files should be executable by default if you mount it with nautilus
[20:35] <lcb> xu-buntu, is that a clean/fresh install?
[20:36] <xu-buntu> lcb: a fresh install into an unused partition ... along with a 10.10 install on the same drive ... but in a different parition
[20:36] <farmer> yofel, Thanks
[20:36] <Feldegast> new theme fixes the gaps in decorations, still have window placment issues and that strange new bar
[20:37] <lcb> xu-buntu, it seems to be a hardware or bios matter. read this - > http://ps-2.kev009.com
[20:37] <lcb> i said matter, not problem...
[20:38] <xu-buntu> just wondering: so there is a big surprise between xubuntu and ubuntu install? I would have assumed that they would be more or less the same ... minus some of the underlying files.
[20:38] <lcb> better, this xu-buntu --> http://ps-2.kev009.com:8081/eprmhtml/epr3e/h16449.htm
[20:39] <xu-buntu> lcb: i was just going to ask about the link ;-)
[20:39] <lcb> xu-buntu, not really. different desktops
[20:39] <xu-buntu> bummer
[20:39] <lcb> so...
[20:40] <xu-buntu> well, its late over here anyway
[20:40] <xu-buntu> i guess I will try the new ISO tomorrow morning
[20:40] <lcb> xu-buntu, try again formatting it. if you get the error write down the code. i'ld do a bios default
[20:40] <xu-buntu> will do so
[20:41] <lcb> xu-buntu, then you could tweak the bios again, as you want/need, no probs
[20:41] <xu-buntu> lcb: would you mind a second question, on xubuntu audio support?
[20:41] <mongy> try an earlier version http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/
[20:41] <mongy> zsync it.
[20:42] <lcb> xu-buntu, ask, i'm not in charge of technical issues here. only matters related to unhappy clients :)
[20:42] <xu-buntu> mongy: you link was for me?
[20:42] <xu-buntu> lcb: thanks anyhow. will try the xubuntu group then
[20:43] <lcb> mongy, daily has been a bit.. risky, lately
[20:43] <lcb> best bet would be beta 2 and then update/upgrade before running desktops
[20:44] <mongy> I had a broken natty few days ago when I installed it again, used one from couple days earlier, worked
[20:44] <lcb> happy customer :)
[20:45] <mongy> was the one missing the partitioner :)
[20:45] <lcb> 2 dailies for me were enough, too much issues, like corrupted installations
[20:46] <mongy> well if its anywhere related, I know the natty on the 19th works
[20:46] <mongy> doh, not exists..
[20:46] <lcb> mongy, we need to do the updates anyway
[20:46] <mongy> 20th then
[20:47] <lcb> i remember your situation with the disks not being recognized, mongy :)
[20:49] <lcb> in my opinion and little experience, beta 2 installation, then let it run up to the login, then restart, then SHIFT before grub loads, and on the menu select root shell and then apt-get update && apt-get upgrade and go for a coffee or something
[20:52] <lcb> root with net support, better, if i recall right
[20:53] <xu-buntu> lcb: thanks for the tips ... might try tomorrow
[20:54] <xu-buntu> in case the RC doesnt work
[20:54] <xu-buntu> or maybe wait for the final thing on friday
[20:54] <lcb> xu-buntu, ya, best bet. fisrt official release
[20:55] <xu-buntu> lcb: good some spare time this week, thought about using that for xubuntu install ...
[20:56] <xu-buntu> i played with ubuntu+unity ... hated it
[20:56] <xu-buntu> using kde for quite some time now ... but it soooo slow
[20:56] <lcb> xu-buntu, another option is a server install then you can select ' tasksel ' and install whatever you want
[20:57] <linuxtech> lcb, I read that you are in charge of unhappy users.  Do you also fill that role for kubuntu users, or do you know who fills that role?  My friend wants to get rid of kubuntu every time she has an issue, like cd writing doesn't work and dvd writing works fine...
[20:58] <lcb> linuxtech, everyone, even unhappy marriage issues, dog bitting etc.
[20:58] <lcb> linuxtech, but on #ComplaintBook
[20:58] <lcb> lol
[20:59] <xu-buntu> lcb: as you know about kde ... would you think that 11.04 KDE is in any way faster than a 10.10 + with KDE 4.6 from backports ppa?
[20:59] <lcb> here only issues related to 11.04. bugs trough the bug reports.
[21:00] <lcb> xu-buntu, i'm not a kde avid user. i like it but i also like the idea of having a soft distro as possible, even if we have a good cpu, ram, etc computer
[21:00] <linuxtech> lcb, that is funny...  I'll tell her about the channel.
[21:01] <lcb> linuxtech, it's fresh.
[21:01] <lcb> hehehe
[21:01] <xu-buntu> lcb: i got an lenovo w510, with i7 and 4 GB ram ... and still it takes 4-5 seconds before a new dolphin window will be useable
[21:02] <xu-buntu> thats like ... way too slow in my opinion
[21:02] <lcb> linuxtech, i decided to open that just because a lot of ppl come here complaint about unity, while we all have the possibility of running classic desktop with still a much better code in the backgroung running
[21:02] <lcb> *ground
[21:03] <yofel> odd, I've a t510 and dolphin takes like a second to start
[21:04] <xu-buntu> yofel: what install base? 10.10? or with backported 4.62?
[21:05] <yofel> ah no, that's natty
[21:05] <xu-buntu> yofel: well, maybe it is worth a try to install 11.04 kubuntu
[21:05] <yofel> I only ever used 4.6 on 10.10 in a VM, but it wasn't slow there either
[21:06] <sveinse> I'm sitting here trying a real work scenario with unity and in the lack of a proper panel to show all apps on _one_ workspace: Is it possible to have a next app shortcut, similar to what ctrl+alt+arrows gives you for workspaces?
[21:06] <sveinse> I find Alt+tab confusing as it shows a preview (which is foo for a large number of terminals)
[21:06] <xu-buntu> yofel: one more thing - are you using the additional thumbnail support for dolphin?
[21:07] <lcb> yofel, you know vbox released a new version, with natty in mind, don't you?
[21:08] <yofel> lcb: I use KVM usually, only used virtualbox once to run natty in it
[21:08] <lcb> yofel, okie
[21:09] <yofel> xu-buntu: I do have some previews on in dolphin, but not many. What do you mean with additional?
[21:09] <Alex_Gaynor> Hi, I'm currently trying to install narwal, and I'm at the select timezone page and my keyboard doesn't seem to work, that is when I type no characters appear.  This is a laptop with a standard USA keyboard layout
[21:09] <Alex_Gaynor> I can't type on the keyboard layout selection screen either
[21:10] <xu-buntu> yofel: mplayerthumbs
[21:11] <xu-buntu> anyway ... time for me to get some sleep
[21:11] <xu-buntu> thanks for your helpful input!
[21:11] <Alex_Gaynor> (nor on the who are you page)
[21:11] <xu-buntu> bye for now
[21:15] <sveinse> which module handles Alt+Tab?
[21:16] <sveinse> Can I configure how the preview looks like with ccsm?
[21:16] <trism> sveinse: I think next window (no popup) is what you want, in ccsm under the Static Application Switcher
[21:16] <trism> sveinse: I had to relog before the settings took effect though
[21:19] <sveinse> trism: The Static App Switcher is already enabled on my system. I found a switch "Show icon only" which removes the preview.
[21:19] <sveinse> Have to admit, that was not what I had in mind though
[21:20] <trism> sveinse: I meant that no key combination is enabled by default, so you would have to set one for the (no popup) options
[21:22]  * sveinse really misses having a panel on the bottom to have the open apps listed...
[21:23] <sveinse> When the unity launcher shows _every_ open app on every workspace, launcher does not replace the function the app list panel had
[21:23] <Alex_Gaynor> Playing with options in the control center under keyboard doesn't seem to help
[21:23] <trism> sveinse: yeah that is a bit odd, I hadn't noticed that before
[21:25] <sveinse> To speculate it seems like ubuntu is moving away from the concepts of workspaces (since they now are not very visible and accessible). And I'm a heavy workspace user (have 6 workspaces, with up to 8-10 apps per workspace)
[21:26] <sveinse> The unity launcher becomes cluttered to uselessness, since you want to access *that* console window on *that* workspace.
[21:26] <arand> sveinse: Or simply workspaces will not be particularly visible, but still present for those who wish.
[21:27] <MichaelKohler> hi, is there any way to change the background color (pink or whatever this is) at startup?
[21:28] <sveinse> I have two strong wishes in that respect: 1) Have a workspace switcher in either the notify area with one button per workspace, or similar in the launcher.  and 2) Launcher only shows the open apps on that particular workspace
[21:29] <sveinse> With those, unity wouldn't be too intrusive on my work flow
[21:32] <arand> sveinse: Well unity will obviously break a lot of workflows, wheter or not it offers a good alternative instead, debatable..
[21:33] <sveinse> arand: Yes. And I'll try it at work during this week to see if its just about me (stuck with old routines) or if unity really is obtrusive
[21:34] <sveinse> I welcome improvements, and I believe unity is an improvement. Yet it seems a little immature
[21:35] <trism> sveinse: there seem to be a couple bugs about it, lp 689733 and lp 683170
[21:38] <sveinse> trism: Thanks. I'm sure it will be fixed as soon as all the technical users complain about it missing
[21:43] <BluesKaj> Feldegast, dunno about you but that vitairglass theme I suggested isn't working out for me , froze my desktop cold
[21:43] <BluesKaj> back to plaik
[21:43] <BluesKaj> pastik
[21:44] <BluesKaj> oops , even my KB is suffering side effects :)
[21:52] <sveinse> I'm reading one of Mark Shuttleworth comments that the launcher in natty will only show the apps on the current workspace rather all applications. What happened to that?
[21:53] <sveinse> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/667245/comments/10
[21:55] <traskers> After a fresh install off 11.04, and then the subsequent updates, I am still missing my Ubuntu icon that is supposed to be located directly above the Unity launcher as part of the panel.
[22:02] <_silentAssassin> how can i install python2.5 -minimal in natty ? !! when i try to do that it asks me to remove whole lot of apps ... amost everything
[22:05] <Alex_Gaynor> So I'm sitting in a narwal live CD, and I'm getting an error that it can't copy stuff to my disk to install it.  Is there a way to redownload/install from the internet from within the livecd?
[22:05] <arand> _silentAssassin: presumably, it conlicts with the newer version of python, and a whole lot of applications depend on the newer python instead.
[22:06] <_silentAssassin> yes ... !! i get that ... but isnt there any way i can install two versions of python side by side ?
[22:06] <Alex_Gaynor> compile it yourself?
[22:06] <_silentAssassin> hmmm .. thats the last resort !!
[22:16] <nijabo> Anyway to get the launcher icons smaller than 32px?
[22:21] <traskers> I'm missing the Dash launcher icon (the Ubuntu logo in the top-left corner of my screen) after a fresh install of 11.04, can anyone tell me how to get it?
[22:21] <traskers> (I have already tried both unity --reset and unity --reset-icons with no progress)
[23:06] <Rods_Tiger> Since I upgraded to natty, minidlna has ceased to function correctly. I see the appropriate folders from my WDTV Live, as before, but it complains there's no media now. Nothing had changed in my minidlna setup, which worked before the natty upgrade.
[23:09] <RoC_MasterMind> Has anyone been able to successfully install to an iSCSI target and then boot off it?  Even when I put /boot on the local hard drive, it gives an error within the first 2 seconds of booting....
[23:34] <trism> RoC_MasterMind: maybe related to lp 728088
[23:39] <fang0654> I am trying to upgrade from 10.10 to the beta, and running into a calculation issue.  I'm pretty sure I have 3rd party xorg binaries installed which is causing the conflict, but I'm not really sure where to go from there
[23:39] <maco> fang0654: ppa-purge?
[23:40] <fang0654> maco: that's exactly what I was looking for.  Thanks!
[23:43] <MuNKyN1Nj4> Anyone know how to disable indexing of certain directories in Unity?
[23:50] <fang0654> maco: that fixed it, upgrade is running smoothly now.  Thanks!
[23:50] <maco> np
[23:56] <KM0201> does anyone knjwo if thunderbird has a panel applet for xfce?