=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk
=== noy_ is now known as noy
=== Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan
=== cypher is now known as czajkowski
=== cnd_vac is now known as cnd
Ming_LeiHi All15:28
skaethi all,  I don't have an agenda made up for this week.16:04
skaetpressures of the natty release have taken priority for me.16:04
skaetis there a concensus to do a roundtable,  or should we reschedule to later in the week?16:05
bjfare we going to have more time or less, latter in the week ? :-P16:05
skaetI also didn't get around to surveying who would be around on Easter Monday,  so not sure about quorum.16:05
skaetbjf,  good point.16:07
araskaet, a quick round table should be fine16:07
skaetwho's here and has content for a round table style meeting?16:07
skaetheh,  ok16:07
MootBotMeeting started at 10:07. The chair is skaet.16:07
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:07
skaetara, what's the update like from hardware certification side?16:08
araWe are planning to test the Maverick kernel currently on proposed. Our only concern is that the testing phase is the same week as the post-release week, were we need to run our full certification for 11.04.16:09
arawe were thinking about testing this week, hoping that all the patches are going to be verified16:09
arasconklin, how likely do you think is that going to be?16:10
sconklinone sec, let me check my status16:10
araif there are any patches reverted and kernel re-uploaded, we could try to do a best effort of 30 systems16:10
bjfara, the cycle doesn't officially start until the 29th according to the schedule, so next week is bug verification16:12
sconklinI believe that this maverick wasn't intended for release, and was only for internal testing. The bugs should have been processed and they weren't. The more testing we get the better, but it will likely be replaced by a new kernel during the next cycle16:13
araOK, thanks for the update16:14
sconklinand if there are testing resources available before the next cycle, I have another agenda item that may need them16:14
skaetara, done?16:14
arasorry :)16:16
skaetsconklin,  how do things look from your perspective?16:17
sconklinI have two items that need attention.16:18
sconklinThe first is that we've had a kernel in -proposed for dapper for over a month, and it hasn't received any updates to the tracking bug even indicating that it will boot.16:18
sconklinTherefore, Pitti will (rightfully) not publish it16:18
sconklinPete said last week he'd see about getting some QA resources to test it, but I have not heard anything.16:19
=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
sconklinWe are going to block the next cycle for dapper unless this is resolved16:19
sconklinSecond item:16:19
sconklinWe still only have one archive admin who deals with kernel packages. We've had kernels in our PPA needing copying to -proposed since last week, but Martin has been on holidays and there's no trained replacement for him16:20
skaetThanks sconklin.16:21
skaetjust talking to pgraner about it now16:21
skaethe's jumping in to comment directly16:21
pgranersconklin, we will have the cert team do testing to free qa up for the release, I'll get that moving today16:21
sconklinpgraner: cool, thanks16:22
pgranersconklin, I'll be talking to victor tomorrow AM so just hang tight16:22
skaetonly thing to keep in mind is that dapper will EOL on June 1,  and we probably need those CVEs out by then.16:22
pgranerskaet, ack16:22
sconklinskaet: yes, that's why we need to get the last one out, so we can get the next one out. At this pace, the next one will be the last one, and we're probably already going to be forced to respin the one we have any only get one more out16:23
skaetsconklin,  so clint is not available to backfill pitti yet?16:23
sconklinHe's available but has not been trained16:23
skaetsconklin,  noted,  and will follow up with pitti directly about an ETA.16:24
* bjf doesn't understand what the point of being "available" but unable to perform task gets us16:24
sconklin'available' just means I could reach him today16:24
skaetsconklin, bjf - problem is that there needed to be something in the queue for pitti to show him on,  and right now we're intersecting release crunch where pitti's on critical path for several things there as well.16:25
sconklinand on holidays16:25
bjfskaet, there have been plenty of opportunities for training16:26
skaetbjf, sconklin.   Will follow up and see if it can become a priority for them both this Friday.16:26
skaet(after release ;) )16:27
bjfskaet, stable can't take a backseat to development forever16:27
skaetbjf,  I know,  its a balancing act though.16:27
skaetany one else have any points to bring up?16:29
skaetgo ara16:29
araSorry, but I am still a bit confused by the maverick kernel16:29
arashouldn't we have had another cycle before that? (I am trying to find the email Steve sent after the resync meeting we had, but still I haven't found it)16:30
sconklinanother cycle before what? Sorry not getting your context.16:31
skaetara,  the nattyreleaseinterlock, only has one this month.   Due to anticipated development release activity.16:31
skaetis that what you're asking about?16:31
araskaet, OK, no worries, I will review my emails16:31
skaetlets follow up by email thread then16:32
skaetany one else?16:32
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:32.16:32
skaetThanks ara, scoklin, bjf16:33
arathanks skaet :)16:33
skaetappreciate the issues being raised, even if the answers aren't good right now.16:33
=== noy_ is now known as noy
* sbeattie WAVES18:10
* sbeattie unsets caps-lock thanks to a reset input layer :-/18:10
jdstrandcool, let's get started18:14
jdstrandThe meeting agenda can be found at:18:14
jdstrand[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting18:14
MootBotMeeting started at 12:14. The chair is jdstrand.18:14
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:14
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting18:14
jdstrand[TOPIC] Review of any previous action items18:14
MootBotNew Topic:  Review of any previous action items18:15
jdstrand[ACTION] kees to setup formalized sign-up page in wiki for qrt testing18:15
MootBotACTION received:  kees to setup formalized sign-up page in wiki for qrt testing18:15
jdstrandI saw kees did this, and we are all working on it18:15
jdstrandthanks kees18:15
jdstrand[TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report18:15
MootBotNew Topic:  Weekly stand-up report18:15
jdstrandI'll go first18:15
jdstrandI am on triage this week18:15
jdstrandI am doing iso testing today and whenever else I need to18:16
jdstrandI've started collecting blueprint ideas for oneiric18:16
jdstrandI'll have more on that later in the week18:16
jdstrandand will start a coordination page for peoples ideas18:16
jdstrandI do have a pending update that I hope to get to18:17
jdstrandthat's it from me18:17
jdstrandmdeslaur is out today, but I know he has several updates in the works18:17
jdstrandmicahg is on holiday the beginning of this week18:17
jdstrandbut he has mozilla and chromium updates coming, patch piloting and the continued webkit work18:18
jdstrandkees: you're up18:18
keescool. I'm on community this week18:18
keesI'm also continuing to make my way through the qrt list. most of the short/easy stuff has been done now, so it's slowing down a bit. :)18:19
keesI've been working steadily on AppArmor-for-Debian, and I think it's almost ready for upload now.18:19
keesI've also been making my way though the open CVEs in main.18:20
keesthat's a very long list, but I've made progress. I'm going to write (finally) the changelog parser so this can be somewhat automated.18:20
keesit's literally been on the TODO list since we switched to using the current cve tracker. ;)18:21
jdstrandkees: re qrt> I'm not sure everything on there needs to be done. ideally, it would be, but mostly making sure that stuff where we have security features (eg, apparmor profiles, kernel stuff, etc) is working is the priority18:21
jdstrandkees: what do you think?18:21
keesjdstrand: yeah. to that end, it might make sense to go through and actually mark everything we think is "required", or not18:21
sbeattiejdstrand: dunno, I found an elinks issue that apparently regressed somewhere between hardy and karmic.18:21
jdstrandsbeattie: true..18:22
sbeattiethough admittedly elinks is in universe now.18:22
keesI'd personally like to run them all, but there's only so much we can get done18:22
jdstrandkees: yeah, that is what I was thinking18:22
* sbeattie hoes to push more on automation for qrt.18:22
jdstrandnext cycle, all the non-interactive ones we should get qa to run18:22
keesanyway, that's it from me.18:22
keesjdstrand: yeah18:23
jdstrandit sounds like that will be a reality once some upcoming changes are done18:23
jdstrandkees: re apparmor in debian> awesome! :)18:23
jdstrandkees: re open CVEs in main> what did you have in mind? is this for the devel release?18:24
keesjdstrand: see the $UCT/TODO file. I put an outline of the logic I want to employ. I suspect it would not be strictly automatic, but rather an interactive helper.18:25
keesi.e. "make the following change, based on this changelog?" [Y/n}18:25
keesit would apply to more than just devel, and could be used for universe too18:25
jdstrandkees: that sounds pretty cool18:28
jdstrandkees: I wonder about the trimmed changelogs in natty now... but that doesn't have to be discussed here18:28
jdstrandwell, I guess it is getting the debian changelog, so it wouldn't matter anyway18:29
jdstrandanyhoo, cool stuff18:29
jdstrandsbeattie: you're up18:29
sbeattieOkay, I'm in the happy place this week, after being on community last week.18:29
sbeattieI'm still working on the php update; I have a maverick package built locally that I've tested, and am now back-and-forward porting patches to other releases.18:30
sbeattieI also did and will continue to do more qrt testing.18:31
sbeattieI'll probably pick up some iso testing as well.18:31
sbeattieI think that's it for me.18:31
jdstrand[TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions18:32
MootBotNew Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions18:32
jdstrandIf haven't already booked travel for oneiric rally, please do so18:32
jdstrandbeyond that, I don't have anything else18:32
jdstranddoes anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?18:32
jdstrandalrighty then18:35
jdstrandthanks everyone!18:35
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:35.18:36
sbeattiejdstrand: thanks!18:36
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-lunch
psusiis it time for the developer board meeting?19:59
LaneyLaney: bdrung_ cody-somerville stgraber maco geser: It Is Time.19:59
* stgraber waves19:59
* cody-somerville is on a work call. Sorry.20:00
* geser waves20:02
Laneywhat's a quorum? 3? 4?20:03
stgraber4 IIRC20:03
* Laney rattles some cages20:03
stgrabermaco was around not too long ago. bdrung_ said he'd be a bit late20:04
macodon't know how long til my manager steals me away for a status meeting20:05
Laneylet's hurry then20:05
MootBotMeeting started at 14:05. The chair is Laney.20:05
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]20:05
Laney[topic] Review of previous action items20:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Review of previous action items20:06
gesermaco: did Slyvestre mail only you the reply to the questions on devel-permissions or are they stuck in the moderation queue?20:06
LaneyLaney to update delegated teams to allow members to renew their memberships themselves — I did this, may have missed some because there's no LP way to enuberate them all20:06
LaneyI made devel-permissions unmoderated20:06
macogeser: i havent gotten any emails20:06
Laneyso I'll call that action done20:07
Laney[topic] Administrative Matters20:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Administrative Matters20:07
LaneyReview progress of probationary period of Marco Rodrigues20:07
Laneycody-somerville: any progress?20:07
Laneynever mind, let's move on :-)20:08
gesermaco: your 3 replies to that one mail from him confused me as I assumed there were part of a discussion20:09
Laney[topic] MOTU application for Sylvestre Ledru20:09
MootBotNew Topic:  MOTU application for Sylvestre Ledru20:09
macogeser: no, i just didn't think all the way through before hitting send :)20:09
LaneyI assume Sylvestre isn't here20:09
Laneyand there's an ongoing discussion on the mailing list, so I propose we just carry that on there20:09
macoMarcin Juszkiewicz is the first on the list that's not already been told we're processing him by email20:10
cyphermoxIf I may just remind people to vote for my application ;)20:10
cyphermox(the email thread, I mean, of course)20:10
macocyphermox: there was a reminder email yesterday and i ping'd for it today ;-)20:10
cyphermoxmaco, thx20:11
cyphermoxfwiw, Marcin has my support20:11
Laneyright, let's just say: please ask RAOF questions and vote for cyphermox as a matter of urgency. :-)20:11
macohrw seems to be missing today20:11
Laneyunless you are happy to move to a vote on RAOF, which I would be fine with.20:11
maco(hrw = marcin)20:11
Laneyjelmer: are you here for your PPU application?20:12
jelmerLaney: hi!20:13
Laney[topic] Per-Package Uploader application for Jelmer Vernooij20:13
MootBotNew Topic:  Per-Package Uploader application for Jelmer Vernooij20:13
Laneyjelmer is applying for upload access to bzr, bzr-svn, bzr-git, bzr-grep, bzr-hg, bzr-gtk, qbzr, bzr-cvsimport, bzr-dbus, bzr-email, bzr-explorer, bzr-fastimport, bzr-loom, bzr-pqm, bzr-rewrite, bzr-search, bzr-stats, bzr-upload, bzr-xmloutput, bzrtools, trac-bzr, wikkid, dulwich, subvertpy, meliae, tevent, talloc, ldb, samba4, heimdal, openchange, samba20:14
Laneyjelmer: have you thought of going for a bzr package set? Are there likely to be any others interested in uploading a similar list of packages in the future?20:14
jelmerLaney: I think a bzr package set might be a good idea. Poolie also has PPU rights for just bzr-related packages, and there are others in the bzr world (maxb?) who might be interested in becoming a PPU in the future too.20:15
LaneyI certainly think that the bzr world would be a good candidate for a package set, and would encourage you to ask for that soon :-)20:16
LaneyAs I'm always interested in Debian coordination: how well is pkg-bazaar working? Do you mainly do work in Debian first and then sync? Is there much delta?20:18
jelmerLaney: yeah, at the moment that's how things work mostly. I (and more recently, Andrew S-B) usually upload to Debian and the we request a sync.20:19
jelmerThere is occasionally some delta around releases in Debian and Ubuntu, which makes the process trickier.20:19
Laneydo you have any non-ubuntu people involved?20:19
jelmerMax Bowser does quite a bit of packaging too. He does use Ubuntu but he's not a Ubuntu or Debian developer; there are some other uploaders who only care about Debian but they've been busy with real-life recently.20:20
Laneymaco: geser: stgraber: any questions?20:21
stgrabernope, I'm ready to vote.20:21
* stgraber is always happy to find more people with samba knowledge, that's usually useful to have around :)20:22
Laneyalright, bzr packages first20:22
Laney[vote] grant jelmer PPU access to bzr, bzr-svn, bzr-git, bzr-grep, bzr-hg, bzr-gtk, qbzr, bzr-cvsimport, bzr-dbus, bzr-email, bzr-explorer, bzr-fastimport, bzr-loom, bzr-pqm, bzr-rewrite, bzr-search, bzr-stats, bzr-upload, bzr-xmloutput, bzrtools, trac-bzr, wikkid, dulwich, subvertpy, meliae20:22
MootBotPlease vote on:  grant jelmer PPU access to bzr, bzr-svn, bzr-git, bzr-grep, bzr-hg, bzr-gtk, qbzr, bzr-cvsimport, bzr-dbus, bzr-email, bzr-explorer, bzr-fastimport, bzr-loom, bzr-pqm, bzr-rewrite, bzr-search, bzr-stats, bzr-upload, bzr-xmloutput, bzrtools, trac-bzr, wikkid, dulwich, subvertpy, meliae.20:22
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot20:22
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting20:22
MootBot+1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 120:23
MootBot+1 received from Laney. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 220:23
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 320:23
stgrabermaco, bdrung_, cody-somerville: ?20:24
LaneyMight have to collect the remaining votes by email.20:26
stgraberwell, there's not much point in continuing the meeting if we don't have quorum, so I'd just wait a few more minutes for maco to come back, cody-somerville to finish his call or bdrung_ to show up.20:27
cody-somervilleI'm almost off my call20:27
macoim back20:31
macosorry, my manager pulled me aside, and i'm +1 for jelmer20:31
stgrabermaco: can you +1 the right way so the bot understands it ? :)20:32
MootBot+1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 420:32
stgraberthanks ;)20:32
macoah i wasnt sure the bot was still listening, sorry20:32
MootBotFinal result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 420:32
Laney& the samba ones:20:32
Laney[vote] Grant jelmer PPU access to tdb tevent talloc ldb, samba4, heimdal, openchange, samba20:33
MootBotPlease vote on:  Grant jelmer PPU access to tdb tevent talloc ldb, samba4, heimdal, openchange, samba.20:33
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot20:33
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting20:33
MootBot+1 received from Laney. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 120:33
MootBot+1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 220:33
stgraber+1 [upstream + maintainer in Debian]20:34
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 320:34
MootBot+1 received from maco. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 420:34
MootBotFinal result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 420:34
Laneycongratulations jelmer!20:34
jelmerthanks everyone :)20:35
Laneymoving on...20:35
Laney[topic] Extension of the Zope packageset20:35
MootBotNew Topic:  Extension of the Zope packageset20:35
Laneygeser: do you want to take this? You were involved in the discussions IIRC20:35
* cody-somerville is here.20:36
geserLaney: can do20:36
Laneylooks like we need to vote on the 5 new packages?20:36
geserLaney: yes20:36
geserGediminas Paulauskas asked in the past about a zope packageset which got approved20:37
Laney[link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2011-March/000168.html20:37
MootBotLINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2011-March/000168.html20:37
geserbut as the packages weren't yet in the archive it could get added in LP to the packageset20:37
geserGediminas asked now to add those packages as they are now in the archive20:38
geserI've compared the list he mentioned with the one which got already approved20:38
geserand 5 packages were new, so we need to formally vote about it before they can get added to the packageset20:39
Laneyit's clear to me that these new packages are sufficiently similar to the ones already in the set that they ought be a part of it20:40
LaneyI know that for the cli-mono set we've an agreement with the TB that new packages need not have formal approval (as they are usually so similar), do you think such an arrangement could work here?20:40
cody-somervilleWhat exactly would the agreement be?20:41
Laneyroughly — ping devel-permissions/d-m-b about additions, if no objections after 1 week (or some time period), packages get added20:41
cody-somervilleBut what are the criteria for the packages?20:41
geserLaney: depends on what was approved by the TB20:41
cody-somervilleie. is it any package that begins with 'zope' or that is zope related or ...?20:42
Laneywell they have to fall within the scope of the set20:42
Laneywe could address on an ad-hoc basis if ever an unclear package comes up20:42
gesere.g. the mozilla set has a "description" of what packages belong to that set so it easy to add packages to it as long as they match on what was approved20:42
geserthe zope package set was based on a package list20:43
Laneyright, cli-mono is different as it's basically a mirror of some Debian team's packages20:43
Laneylet's leave that then20:43
cody-somervilleIt appears there a zope section in the archive.20:44
LaneyPerhaps that could be used to determine the set then, depending on what criteria are used to put packages there20:45
geserbtw I'm fine to make the zope package set more "wildcard" (zope\..* | z3c\..*) if it eases the maintainance in the future20:45
Laneylet's discuss it another time if there's interest/adding new packages starts to take more of our time20:45
Laneyfor now...20:45
Laney[vote] add z3c.ptcompat zope.applicationcontrol zope.fixers zope.login zope.pluggableauth to zope package set20:45
MootBotPlease vote on:  add z3c.ptcompat zope.applicationcontrol zope.fixers zope.login zope.pluggableauth to zope package set.20:45
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot20:45
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting20:45
cody-somervilleugh, it appears https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/TeamReports isn't being updated.20:45
MootBot+1 received from maco. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 120:45
MootBot+1 received from cody-somerville. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 220:45
MootBot+1 received from Laney. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 320:45
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 420:45
MootBot+1 received from geser. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 520:45
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 520:46
stgraberthat was easy :)20:46
macocody-somerville: "ugh it appears"?20:46
Laneynobody is taking the time to do it :-)20:46
Laneyi'll try and do it with the minutes20:46
Laneydoesn't look like jcrigby is here20:47
macojcrigby is next. he's in #ubuntu, so i just pinged20:47
Laney25/04 20:47:16 -!-  idle     : 0 days 16 hours 53 mins 8 secs [signon: Wed Apr 20 04:27:07 2011]20:47
Laneyif he turns up we can process him next20:47
macoah i didnt check idle time20:47
Laneymterry: are you here?20:47
mterryLaney, ^20:48
Laneywe are making progress20:48
Laney[topic] Core Developer application for Michael Terry20:48
MootBotNew Topic:  Core Developer application for Michael Terry20:48
Laney[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mterry/CoreDev20:48
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mterry/CoreDev20:48
Laneyback in 2 minutes — someone else please lead questioning20:49
* mterry takes silence as consent20:50
macomterry: do you think a "Patch Postal Service" is something the patch review team could help with, and have you had any involvement with the patch review team?20:50
mterrymaco, I'm a patch pilot (just did some today).  That's one of the primary prompts to finally applying for core-dev.  Too many patches I had to pass on20:50
cody-somervillemterry, Do you have permissions to upload to the Ubuntu Desktop package set?20:50
mterrymaco, I think the new DEX effort is basically what I wanted by a "Postal Service"20:51
mterrymaco, there's a session at UDS about it that I plan to attend20:51
mterrycody-somerville, yes20:51
mterrycody-somerville, I do most of my Canonical work via the ubuntu-desktop set20:51
mterryBut I still hit things that I'd like to have core-dev for (including the above mentioned patch review reasons) so I thought it would be useful20:52
gesermterry: do you see this slow patch forwarding mostly in the ubuntu-desktop team or in whole Ubuntu?20:52
cody-somervillemterry, Being a core developer is more than just upload permissions, its a position of leadership. Can you give us an example where you've demonstrated strong leadership within the Ubuntu community?20:53
mterrygeser, whole Ubuntu.  One thing I love doing is getting packages down to syncable state during the start of a cycle, the merge window20:53
mterrySo I will often see a package with a bunch of tiny useful changes that should have been sent to Debian a while ago20:53
mterryNo one's fault really -- people are busy or Debian is in freeze and they pile up20:53
mterrycody-somerville, leadership...  Probably not something non-technical?  I'm more of a work-quietly-get-things-done person.20:55
cody-somervillemterry, How familiar would you say you are with the Ubuntu release and development policies and practices? Familiar enough to mentor a new contributor on them / walk them through the process?20:56
mterrycody-somerville, yes, I believe so20:56
mterrycody-somerville, I do sometimes when talking to people in my Loco, but I don't explicitly mentor people formally20:57
cody-somervillemterry, Are you a MOTU?20:57
mterrycody-somerville, yeah20:57
mterrycody-somerville, for a little over a year now maybe?20:57
Laney(you can answer Cody's question first) One thing I keep coming up against as someone who maintains certain Desktop team packages in Debian is that I have a very hard time getting the Desktop team to proactively work with us. For example (banshee and tomboy) we try to upload to Debian and then sync/merge to Ubuntu. We also try to store the Ubuntu packaging in Alioth's git too. The problem is that Ubuntu patches are often so urgent ...20:58
Laney... that they cannot wait, or are simply not discussed with us at all. I don't know how to improve this. Do you have any ideas?20:58
mterryLaney, I think I know what you mean, that Ubuntu's GNOME packaging is often just a complete fork from Debian because we often update as soon as upstream does and don't wait for Debian20:59
Laneymore than that20:59
cody-somervillemterry, I notice you only have endorsements from co-workers. Are there any community members you work with regularly?20:59
LaneyI have sometimes explicitly asked for patches to be forwarded or indicated that I'm willing to do the work in Debian first and then sync/merge only to later come back and find that the upload has been done regardless.21:00
mterrycody-somerville, not really, no.  Most of my Ubuntu work is sponsoring patches from random people, Desktop work with coworkers, or maintaining my own packages (like deja-dup)21:00
Laneyanyway that's just a general problem I have, not something I expect you to solve21:01
mterryLaney, my first reaction is that regular efforts at sending back patches we have to Debian would help, but it sounds like you want tighter integration, that you're saying some outreach efforts are ignored?21:01
cody-somervillemterry, Are there not any community contributors involved with desktop? If not, what can be done to improve that?21:02
mterryLaney, I know this next cycle with 3.0, the Desktop team is planning an explicit patch-forward review21:02
LaneyI'm saying that sometimes you have Debian maintainers who actively want to help Ubuntu and are willing to 'go the extra mile', and that they are being rebuffed.21:02
Laneyit's partly because the work is so high tempo and otherwise fixes would get dropped I imagine21:03
mterrycody-somerville, I'm know there are community members, but the constant keeping-up-with-GNOME may be a bit much for them, especially since there are so many on the Canonical side that do it anyway21:04
mterrycody-somerville, but the GNOME 3.0 PPA has had lots of interested community help21:04
mterrycody-somerville, partly because Canonical people were so busy, so it had to be done by community or not at all21:05
cody-somervillemterry, Can you provide an example of a really technically difficult problem or bug that you solved and are proud of?21:05
mterrycody-somerville, so there's definitely people willing to help.  It's just a matter of finding opportunities21:05
mterrycody-somerville, I'm super happy with my involvement this cycle with helping on indicators21:05
cody-somervillemterry, Whose responsibility do you think it is to find and facilitate those opportunities?21:06
mterrycody-somerville, I fixed so many crashers from bad memory use or signal connection through chasing code and staring at ref/unref pairs21:06
mterryso if your panel isn't crashing in natty, I'm going to take the credit  :)21:06
cody-somervillemterry, Why was there so many crashers and bad memory use? ;)21:06
mterrycody-somerville, :) It was many examples of a common gobject mistake that I kept having to find and chase down21:07
mterrycody-somerville, hopefully the DX team won't make those mistakes again now21:07
mterryafter having to review so many of my branches21:07
mterrycody-somerville, I think the Canonical people would be a good respoinsibility source for finding low-hanging-fruit for community members21:08
mterryNot necessarily the only people to do so21:08
mterryBut they know what they arem21:08
mterryaren't working on, so can flag such items as 'would be nice for someone to pick this up'21:08
cody-somervillemterry, How can community contributors get deeply involved? Is that even possible in the desktop team?21:08
mterrycody-somerville, it's certainly possible.  We don't do anything secretly.  It's just that, for example, 2.31.3 is released.  seb128 has to assign the work, and he's not going to make a community person do it, so...21:09
mterryI think it's about identifying non-time-sensitive work21:09
mterryOr people stepping up and saying they're willing to be on the hook for time-sensitive stuff, but that's not a fun thing for a community person21:10
mterryAm I being clear?21:11
* cody-somerville nods.21:11
mterryWe haven't prioritized identifying stuff, but seb128 always has work for people, and people do know to ask him for it21:11
mterryHe's sort of the spider at the top of the desktop web, and he does a good job of liasing with community people21:12
mterryBut it's ad-hoc, not a formal "help community people know where opportunities are" effort21:12
mterryWhich may be useful, sure21:12
cody-somervilleI have to run to another meeting. I'm going to abstain from voting on mterry's application as I used to work directly with him at Canonical before he moved to the desktop team. Sad to see he doesn't have more community involvement but I feel very lucky we have him to fix all the memory leaks in DX team's code <grins>.21:12
Laneyright, let's vote21:12
Laney[vote] Michael Terry to join core-dev21:13
MootBotPlease vote on:  Michael Terry to join core-dev.21:13
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot21:13
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting21:13
Laneymaco: geser bdrung_ Laney stgraber21:13
MootBot+1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 121:13
cody-somerville+0 - COI21:13
MootBotAbstention received from cody-somerville. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 121:13
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 221:13
MootBot+1 received from maco. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 321:14
Laney+1 // Good work, nice to see patch piloting too. I hope to see some of the 'community' issues taken further :-)21:15
MootBot+1 received from Laney. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 421:15
MootBotFinal result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 421:15
cody-somervillemterry, Congratulations! :)21:16
Laneyshall we carry on to psusi, or do people have to shoot?21:16
macoLaney: cody-somerville said he had to leave for another meeting21:17
Laneywe still have quorum with the others though21:17
stgraberI can still continue for a while (at least 15 minutes)21:17
cody-somervilleFYI, I think we should try and limit the time of meetings to an hour (roughly). Otherwise people will complain when we decide not to go beyond an hour.21:17
cody-somervillee.g. "You went for two hours the other week... why not this time??"21:17
Laneyyeah sure, I'm treating this as special because of our large backlog21:17
Laneybut I don't mind ending now either21:18
macogot through quite a bit21:18
* psusi points out that there is quite a backlog from previous failed meetings ;)21:18
macopsusi: 3 of the people on the list are being processed by email21:18
macoso what remains are the 2 people who weren't here today, you, and barry21:18
* barry waves21:19
barryjust a quick note that 2 weeks from now will be uds21:19
Laneywe've asked for a room there21:19
LaneyRL grilling? ;-)21:20
barryif you run out of time today, do you want to process my application by email?21:20
macooh right. i can add "commencement" to the list of answers for "why aren't you going to UDS?"21:20
barrymaco: bummer!21:20
* psusi didn't know this could be done via email21:20
barrywell, commencement == good :)21:20
Laneywe should be able to meet at UDS next time (I think most of us will be there)21:21
* Laney bangs a gong21:22
MootBotMeeting finished at 15:22.21:22
mterryThanks all!21:22
macoshall i remove the finished people from the agenda page and update the numberings?21:22
* bdrung_ arrives.21:22
Laneyyes please21:22
Laneymaco: you could mark the emailers with an E or something21:22
bdrung_seems that i am too late.21:22
Laneymaco: if you want to action the permissions then that's cool too (and send out the annouces, et cetera)21:23
Laneyotherwise I'll do it tomorrow probably21:23
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psusiso did I hear that my application can be processed via email?  what do I need to do for that?21:24
* barry has same question21:24
geserI'm already working on the package addition to the zope package set but have to wait to get the zope package set owned by DMB again (or ask a TB member to do it)21:24
Laneypsusi: barry: We prefer not to, as it means that applications can drag on and eat up a lot of everyone's time. The only reason we invited the top three is because we repeatedly failed to meet and accrued a huge backlog.21:27
barryLaney: cool, no worries.  i'll be at uds so i'm happy to meet IRL and sit on the hot seat :)21:28
psusiok.... I guess I can wait yet another two weeks... though if someone has a moment to look at my application and let me know if there is anything more I can do to prepare for next time, I would appreciate it21:28
Laneypsusi: Having a few positive endorsements is the main thing you can ensure21:29
psusiyea, I'll have to keep poking people about that...21:30
macoLaney: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda look right?21:30
Laneymaco: looks much more healthy21:31
stgraberLaney: might be worth e-mailing everyone on UDS' DMB meeting agenda to tell them we'll have a room (once we're sure we have a room ;)) and can meet in person if they are around21:32
Laneywill do21:32
LaneyI need to ping Marianna again21:32
Laney...and book my flights (/me runs)21:32
geserdo you have quorum with DMB members at UDS or need also some on IRC?21:33
stgraberLaney: also, it'd be nice if the meeting could appear on summit.ubuntu.com with everyone attending it marked as participation essential so the scheduling thingy doesn't put us in another meeting at the same time21:33
Laneystgraber: yeah, after it gets scheduled I'll try and sort it21:34
Laneygeser: I think we have Laney stgraber cody-somerville bdrung_, so quorum, but that doesn't mean that you aren't wanted as well :-)21:34
* Laney runs off to dinner21:35
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nhandlertopyli: /ninfo mootbot23:39
nhandler(ignore that)23:39

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