| popey | heh | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| exobuzz | get some famous names in there too, like 4-mat etc | 00:00 |
| exobuzz | and ziphoid (he was the radio guy on the video stream) | 00:00 |
| exobuzz | (famous on the demoscene ;-) ) | 00:01 |
| popey | well, I'm glad I compiled that demo :) | 00:02 |
| exobuzz | i guess ill have to wait until i have better working 3d heh | 00:03 |
| popey | http://popey.com/~alan/gord_cvis_demo.ogv | 00:04 |
| popey | looks a lot smoother in real life | 00:04 |
| exobuzz | thanks! | 00:04 |
| exobuzz | wow. trippy! | 00:04 |
| exobuzz | gord, are you related to jeff minter? :) | 00:05 |
| popey | haha | 00:05 |
| gord | its the hair ;) | 00:06 |
| exobuzz | heh, aah so you look like him too ? ;-) nice demo effect - i can see you made sure you used all possible colours in the visible spectrum | 00:10 |
| gord | its actually grayscale, then i use a shader to map it to a randomly chosen row from data/images/grad.png | 00:12 |
| gord | all the gl shaders are in data/shader_src if anyone has any interested in how those work | 00:12 |
| * exobuzz never looked at shader code. scared to ;-) | 00:12 | |
| Azelphur | went to paintball today for my birthday, got shot in the chest and stained my shirt, went to get KFC later and the cashier thought I was drunk and had vomited on myself \o/ | 00:14 |
| popey | haha | 00:14 |
| exobuzz | lol | 00:14 |
| exobuzz | happy birthday too! | 00:15 |
| Azelphur | ty :P | 00:15 |
| exobuzz | did they still serve you their filthy yet tasty chicken ? | 00:15 |
| Azelphur | yea, I said I got shot | 00:15 |
| Azelphur | she gave me even more strange looks :( | 00:15 |
| exobuzz | normally people are sick on themselves after visiting kfc not before ;-) | 00:16 |
| Azelphur | haha | 00:16 |
| Azelphur | It was pretty funny at paint ball too, they all made me wear a fluorescent vest to ensure I got shot at a lot :D | 00:17 |
| popey | :) | 00:17 |
| Azelphur | only I think it backfired because I only got shot once, I reckon everyone thought I was a marshal or something. | 00:17 |
| exobuzz | Azelphur, bruised ? | 00:17 |
| exobuzz | aah ok. single shot to the chest eh | 00:17 |
| gord | maybe you are just that good? | 00:17 |
| Azelphur | gord that's what I said :D | 00:17 |
| Azelphur | I did get quite a few headshots, It's good fun getting people right in the visor so they can't see >:3 | 00:18 |
| * gord is visualising mike from spaced good | 00:18 | |
| exobuzz | http://www.inventgeek.com/Projects/paintball-turret/Overview.aspx | 00:18 |
| Azelphur | exobuzz: haha yea, the chest shot didn't even leave a mark, I got a small mark on my shoulder, and I probably have a big bruise on my back from where my cousin shot me (in the back, while he was on my team xD), lol | 00:19 |
| exobuzz | Azelphur, hehe | 00:19 |
| popey | oops, still had gords demo running on another desktop :) | 00:19 |
| popey | only 10% cpu tho | 00:19 |
| Azelphur | exobuzz: someone in our party got paint in the eyes though | 00:19 |
| exobuzz | popey, im sure you got a few copies of minecraft going too ;-) | 00:19 |
| popey | heh, not on this box | 00:20 |
| Azelphur | got shot in the air holes for the mask and the paint went through and all over his eyes/mouth | 00:20 |
| popey | oh, yes I do :) | 00:20 |
| exobuzz | lol | 00:20 |
| gord | its damn efficient :) low powered hardware keeps you honest | 00:20 |
| Azelphur | exobuzz: and my cousin is bruised to hell, he ran out in the open and started doing the chicken dance. xD | 00:20 |
| * exobuzz swaps gord's pc for a spectrum | 00:20 | |
| exobuzz | there you go | 00:20 |
| exobuzz | Azelphur, sounds like a fun day! | 00:20 |
| Azelphur | indeed \o/ | 00:20 |
| gord | unity - 128k edition | 00:21 |
| exobuzz | <3 8 bit | 00:23 |
| exobuzz | old pic with my babies http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/File:BIT_2002_027_25.jpg | 00:23 |
| Azelphur | exobuzz: reminds me of when I was about 8, my mum said "Most kids your age have a teddy bear, you have a gameboy and a pack of cookies" | 00:25 |
| exobuzz | sounds like you got things right ;-) | 00:26 |
| exobuzz | gameboy > teddy bear | 00:26 |
| Azelphur | indeed. | 00:26 |
| Seeker` | hai | 00:40 |
| hamitron | bah | 00:47 |
| * hamitron grumbles | 00:47 | |
| Seeker` | hmm? | 00:48 |
| hamitron | bored with all the music I queue up | 00:49 |
| hamitron | tbh, just bored | 00:51 |
| matti | ;] | 00:51 |
| Seeker` | anyone know someone by the name of "James Harrison"? | 02:10 |
| ali1234 | i figured out how to reproduce the firefox focus bug | 04:40 |
| ali1234 | i also found that minecraft runs about 50% slower on natty | 04:50 |
| ali1234 | oops i mean 50% faster | 04:50 |
| ali1234 | oops i mean 100% faster :/ | 04:51 |
| === ChrisB_ is now known as Guest30201 | ||
| jibadeeha | i sometimes wonder if having the hard drive power down when idle puts wear and tear and it is perhaps best to leave it switched on all the time | 09:02 |
| popey | morning | 09:03 |
| popey | jibadeeha: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Minimizing_Hard_Disk_Drive_Failure_and_Data_Loss is probably worth reading | 09:04 |
| jibadeeha | thanks popey ... will check that out | 09:04 |
| dwatkins | hi folks, and happy bank holiday | 09:30 |
| popey | :) | 09:31 |
| daubers | Morning | 09:37 |
| alex__ | :) | 09:41 |
| Pendulum | morning | 10:43 |
| dwatkins | hiya Pendulum et al | 10:54 |
| peejay1977 | Hey morning all, anyone know of a bug in Ubuntu 11.04 Beta 2 that causes Vuze to crash when searching? I've done a preliminary Google and found nothing... | 11:10 |
| * dwatkins discovers a webcam on Abbey Road and watches tourists being silly on the pedestrian crossing | 11:11 | |
| tugrik | URL dwatkins ? | 11:15 |
| dwatkins | http://www.abbeyroad.com/visit/ tugrik | 11:15 |
| tugrik | yeah, sorry, took me google and five seconds.... | 11:16 |
| dwatkins | no worries, I might possibly have been referring to a different webcam on Abbey Road ;) | 11:16 |
| dwatkins | is anyone near by who can confirm it's live? | 11:16 |
| === RaycisCharles is now known as OmNomDeBonBon | ||
| jonsaint | hi all. can anyone help me with firestarter | 11:53 |
| * AlanBell waits for jonsaint to ask a question | 12:05 | |
| brobostigon | good afternoon everyone. | 12:05 |
| MartijnVdS | \o brobostigon | 12:06 |
| brobostigon | good afternoon MartijnVdS :) | 12:06 |
| jonsaint | sorry alan. didnt see your message then | 12:06 |
| jonsaint | what it is it keeps going red and when i check what it is, the protocol is a tcp (what ever that is | 12:07 |
| jonsaint | only been having the problem since i moved house a week ago | 12:07 |
| popey | any of you lot do bitcoin mining? | 12:09 |
| MartijnVdS | is that something in minecraft? | 12:12 |
| brobostigon | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin ? | 12:14 |
| jonsaint | AlanBell, sent you a message alan on here | 12:14 |
| fujisano | Hello, i am having sound issues in 10.10 when i play a video there is no sound | 12:15 |
| fujisano | any idea what the issue might be? | 12:15 |
| MartijnVdS | your speakers could be off | 12:15 |
| fujisano | i have no idea where to even start troubleshooting | 12:15 |
| MartijnVdS | or not plugged in | 12:15 |
| fujisano | i hear system sounds | 12:15 |
| MartijnVdS | or the volume could be muted | 12:15 |
| MartijnVdS | or set to 0 | 12:15 |
| MartijnVdS | which player are you using | 12:15 |
| fujisano | now it works again | 12:16 |
| fujisano | i dont get it | 12:16 |
| fujisano | the default one and vlc | 12:16 |
| ali1234 | popey: i ran the generator for about 3 months, got no result | 12:17 |
| fujisano | and the sound has gone again | 12:21 |
| fujisano | i dont get it :( | 12:21 |
| MartijnVdS | fujisano: is it only specific videos or programs? | 12:22 |
| fujisano | videos i think | 12:22 |
| fujisano | avi videos | 12:23 |
| MartijnVdS | with what kind of audio? which player are you using? | 12:23 |
| fujisano | vlc and the default player in ubuntu | 12:23 |
| MartijnVdS | vlc should work | 12:24 |
| AlanBell | jonsaint: is it stopping you from doing something? | 12:24 |
| AlanBell | jonsaint: tcp is the standard internet protocol really, the port number would be interesting perhaps | 12:24 |
| fujisano | martijnVdS ye should but vlc and the default player both stop playing audio after a few minutes so i am guessing it's an ubuntu specific issue | 12:25 |
| jonsaint | ports start at 38299 and go up | 12:25 |
| MartijnVdS | fujisano: ah, you didn't say that symptom before | 12:25 |
| shauno | fujisano: is this on a mac by chance? | 12:26 |
| shauno | if it is, check to see if it's just muted. for some odd reason, the newer ones keep muting themselves | 12:27 |
| AlanBell | jonsaint: could be anything then | 12:27 |
| AlanBell | jonsaint: running skype? | 12:27 |
| jonsaint | no. dont use skype | 12:27 |
| fujisano | shauno no the pc :< | 12:28 |
| fujisano | my bedroom pc | 12:28 |
| shauno | ah ok | 12:28 |
| fujisano | i have no sound issues with spotify it's only with avi's | 12:28 |
| fujisano | weird | 12:29 |
| fujisano | any ideas how to tackle this issue? | 12:33 |
| fujisano | im googling but getting nowhere... | 12:33 |
| fujisano | ok i give up :< | 12:36 |
| * brobostigon read back, to see if he canhelp. | 12:37 | |
| fujisano | i believe the gods are trying to prevent me from gorging myself with documentaries | 12:38 |
| brobostigon | fujisano: have a look in vlc, and see if its outputting to pulseaudio or alsa, ? | 12:38 |
| fujisano | ok thanks | 12:39 |
| fujisano | it's outputting on default | 12:39 |
| brobostigon | pulseaudio can kill it self, if it is using massive resources. | 12:39 |
| brobostigon | default couldbe either, what other ooptions is it giving you? | 12:39 |
| fujisano | no clue what the default is : | 12:40 |
| fujisano | ;/ | 12:40 |
| MartijnVdS | brobostigon: default is pulse if pulse is running | 12:40 |
| brobostigon | MartijnVdS: ok, hmm. | 12:40 |
| MartijnVdS | ♥ pulse | 12:40 |
| fujisano | how can i check this btw? | 12:40 |
| brobostigon | fujisano: is thepulseaudio server using alot of resources when you try and playsound through it, | 12:40 |
| fujisano | ok in system monitor i am seeing a process for pulseaudio | 12:41 |
| MartijnVdS | ooh, like the "burning CD" indicator | 12:41 |
| MartijnVdS | fujisano: but is it eating lots of CPU when playing sound (as in, 70-80% or more) | 12:41 |
| fujisano | 2 % | 12:42 |
| brobostigon | fujisano: when you try and play sound via pulseaudio what kind of resources does that process use up? | 12:42 |
| popey | ali1234: yeah, I haven't found a single one yet. been using the gpu to do the mining | 12:42 |
| fujisano | pulseaudio is currently sleeping | 12:42 |
| brobostigon | fujisano: try and play some sound through it, and see whatresources it uses up. | 12:42 |
| fujisano | how do i set the default output to pulse? | 12:43 |
| MartijnVdS | fujisano: the default IS pulse, as long as pulseaudio is running | 12:43 |
| fujisano | it's running but apparently sleeping | 12:44 |
| brobostigon | fujisano: you can check in vlc's preferences,under audio, and output modules. | 12:44 |
| fujisano | brobostigon: i did and it said default | 12:44 |
| brobostigon | fujisano: pulseaudio it is then, as MartijnVdS said. | 12:45 |
| fujisano | ok done | 12:45 |
| brobostigon | fujisano: play something with some sound in vlc, and see what resources the pulseaudio server uses up. | 12:45 |
| fujisano | i think i need a new pc for ubuntu this one is so old | 12:46 |
| fujisano | 3% | 12:46 |
| popey | ali1234: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FThX1cDg-tg *boggle* | 12:46 |
| brobostigon | fujisano: that is with vlcplaying music or something, how much cpu? and ram? | 12:47 |
| fujisano | i think it's working better now thanks brobostigon and martijn | 12:47 |
| fujisano | vlc 11% | 12:47 |
| kingofswords | hi can any1 recommend a good download manager for ubuntu...like jloader? | 12:47 |
| brobostigon | fujisano: keep an eye on the pulseaudio servers resouces, it can be a masisve hog sometimes. | 12:47 |
| fujisano | ok ty i will keep that in mind :) | 12:48 |
| brobostigon | fujisano: because, when it cant get anymore resourcs to run. and canjust fail, all onits own. | 12:48 |
| fujisano | ok i see | 12:49 |
| brobostigon | fujisano: you might want to try and change vlc'soutput module to alsa, and see what happens. | 12:50 |
| popey | kingofswords: gwget, kget, tucan manager, fatrat, uget... | 12:54 |
| kingofswords | hi popey...are they better than jloader...and are they java based? | 12:55 |
| popey | kingofswords: i have never used any of them (or jloader) I dont use download managers | 12:55 |
| kingofswords | ok ill take a look | 12:56 |
| kingofswords | thx | 12:56 |
| AlanBell | I don't get why people on broadband use download managers | 12:56 |
| AlanBell | just seem like something from the modem days to me | 12:56 |
| popey | i do | 12:57 |
| popey | if you want to download a gazillion files | 12:57 |
| ali1234 | popey: last time i checked it costs about £20 to run a PC for a year, 1 bitcoin = 1 dollar | 12:57 |
| popey | or download files from multiple hosts | 12:57 |
| ali1234 | in other words mining bitcoins costs you money | 12:57 |
| popey | ali1234: yeah, and that guy must be running up quite a leccy bill | 12:57 |
| popey | plus he bought a load of new kit to do it | 12:57 |
| ali1234 | if you want them, just buy them on the exchange | 12:57 |
| popey | yeah | 12:58 |
| ali1234 | for that rig he could have bought several hundred | 12:58 |
| kingofswords | whats a bitcoin? | 12:58 |
| ali1234 | lolcash | 12:58 |
| ali1234 | that's what they should have called it | 12:58 |
| AlanBell | a cryptographic ecash scheme | 12:58 |
| popey | :) | 12:58 |
| ali1234 | space bux | 12:58 |
| popey | OMGDollars | 12:59 |
| ali1234 | except that space bux are probably worth more | 12:59 |
| ali1234 | seriously you'd make more money by becoming a gold farmer | 13:11 |
| === alexcockell is now known as alcockell | ||
| === cypher is now known as czajkowski | ||
| jibadeeha | ls | 13:18 |
| jibadeeha | whoops wrong window | 13:19 |
| gord | cd secretplansforworlddomination | 13:36 |
| gord | oops, wrong window | 13:36 |
| BigRedS | /etc/init.d/robot-uprising start | 13:37 |
| ali1234 | awesome, writing to a USB drive now freezes the whole computer for the duration of the write operation | 13:40 |
| shauno | it's a shame skynet was using amazon. really ruined the whole thing | 13:41 |
| directhex | ali1234, linux IO sucks | 13:42 |
| ali1234 | this is a regression | 13:42 |
| ali1234 | i have never seen dd make the mouse pointer stop moving before | 13:43 |
| ali1234 | well not recently anyway | 13:43 |
| === cbx333 is now known as cbx33 | ||
| ali1234 | bug 770258 | 14:06 |
| lubotu3 | Launchpad bug 770258 in linux (Ubuntu) "Extremely high latency when writing to USB drives." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770258 | 14:06 |
| dwatkins | I'm amazed my Macbook is still backing up ok via USB. | 14:08 |
| dwatkins | i.e. the server's disk is attached via USB and I'm backing up to the server which runs Ubuntu 10.10 | 14:09 |
| exobuzz | ali1234, got SCHED_AUTOGROUP enabled in kernel ? | 14:10 |
| ali1234 | i dunno | 14:10 |
| ali1234 | i'm using natty | 14:10 |
| exobuzz | check in /boot/config* | 14:10 |
| ali1234 | CONFIG_SCHED_AUTOGROUP=y | 14:10 |
| exobuzz | worth building with that for better io/cpu sharing etc. can help when writing large amounts to slow usb devices etc | 14:11 |
| exobuzz | k | 14:11 |
| ali1234 | it's the 200 line patch right? | 14:11 |
| exobuzz | yeh | 14:11 |
| ali1234 | well it seems to me that it has made it significantly worse | 14:11 |
| exobuzz | i guess disabling it would be worth a try then | 14:11 |
| ali1234 | i never had this problem on older kernels | 14:11 |
| ali1234 | i had similar but no where near as bad problems | 14:12 |
| exobuzz | would be interested if things are better without it - you might have found a specific problem | 14:12 |
| ali1234 | but mainly due to swap being really slow | 14:12 |
| ali1234 | i think there is something wrong with my motherboard actually | 14:12 |
| ali1234 | eg i get page fault latency of 1.3 seconds | 14:12 |
| exobuzz | echo "0" >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness ? | 14:12 |
| popey | just seen someone in another channel say their mint system locks up when it writes to swap | 14:12 |
| popey | :S | 14:13 |
| ali1234 | so any time i hit swap the computer locks for half an hour, even if i only used a few hundred mb | 14:13 |
| ali1234 | oh good, it's not just me then | 14:13 |
| ali1234 | ask em what motherboard they've got | 14:13 |
| popey | will do | 14:13 |
| ali1234 | anyway, i've not seen this problem on USB drives before, only swap | 14:13 |
| exobuzz | ali1234, telling the machine to avoid swap might help as above | 14:13 |
| ali1234 | i tried swappiness = 0 | 14:13 |
| ali1234 | it doesn't make much difference | 14:14 |
| ali1234 | i have 4GB | 14:14 |
| popey | Gigabyte P55-UD3 | 14:14 |
| ali1234 | to only time i use swap is when i really need to use swap | 14:14 |
| popey | ^ ali1234 | 14:14 |
| exobuzz | also try mem compaction / page merging / transparent huge page support etc things that affect stuff like that and see if they make a difference | 14:14 |
| ali1234 | popey: ok that's nothing like mine, not even same cpu | 14:15 |
| ali1234 | so i conclude that linux has finally jumped the shark | 14:15 |
| popey | heh | 14:15 |
| exobuzz | worth building 2.6.39 in case it was a glitch they have fixed | 14:15 |
| ali1234 | exobuzz: i shouldn't have to fiddle with that stuff, this is supposed to be linux for human beings | 14:16 |
| exobuzz | (rc4+) | 14:16 |
| popey | +2 | 14:16 |
| exobuzz | ali1234, yeh but im speaking about locating the issue, as there is obviously a problem | 14:16 |
| exobuzz | if we can narrow it down or find something that stops it, then you have a point to start from | 14:16 |
| ali1234 | it's been a problem since... well since intrepid basically | 14:16 |
| ali1234 | nobody seems to have the problem but me | 14:17 |
| popey | I'm finding Unity 2d very usable. | 14:17 |
| ali1234 | or maybe nobody else ever even uses swap | 14:17 |
| exobuzz | i spent 6 months debugging a usb issue on a hosted machine. finally found a commit frmo 2.6.27 that broke the usb .. was a pain but now i know how to fix it, and hopefully can get it sorted in future kernels | 14:17 |
| ali1234 | i suspect the latter | 14:18 |
| dwatkins | what's needed to fix it, exobuzz? | 14:18 |
| exobuzz | popey, i still dont get the "big icons" - on 800x600 they actuall are too big and dont fit in the screen, it should surely use screensize to work out how it should do it | 14:18 |
| AlanBell | what hardware do people have that won't do openGL at all? | 14:18 |
| exobuzz | dwatkins, https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32432 | 14:18 |
| lubotu3 | bugzilla.kernel.org bug 32432 in USB "USB Disconnects / resets after commit b963801164618e25fbdc0cd452ce49c3628b46c8" [Normal,New] | 14:18 |
| ali1234 | AlanBell: do you count opengl es? | 14:18 |
| AlanBell | counting stuff that won't do Unity 3d | 14:19 |
| ali1234 | plenty of stuff won't run unity | 14:19 |
| popey | my desktop is well capable of unity 3d, but unity 3d is painfully slow | 14:19 |
| dwatkins | thanks exobuzz | 14:19 |
| popey | so i have been trying unity 2d | 14:19 |
| popey | and it's quite skippy | 14:19 |
| popey | as in fast | 14:19 |
| exobuzz | dwatkins, there is another alternative patch from usb dev i need to try on the kernel usb mailinglist but for now since it is a production machine, just having it work is good enough | 14:20 |
| AlanBell | I am surprised | 14:20 |
| exobuzz | popey, here's one, how can i enable compiz + unity 2d | 14:20 |
| popey | surprised at what? | 14:20 |
| exobuzz | popey, if you choose unity 2d from natty, it disables compiz. do you have a fix ? | 14:20 |
| AlanBell | that 2d is faster than 3d | 14:20 |
| popey | i dont want compiz | 14:20 |
| popey | compiz is slow | 14:20 |
| BigRedS | AlanBell: really? | 14:20 |
| exobuzz | popey, i do ;-) hehe | 14:20 |
| ali1234 | 2d is always faster than 3d | 14:20 |
| popey | I hope you're happy together | 14:20 |
| popey | :) | 14:20 |
| dwatkins | exobuzz: I suspect my problems are related to an external USB disk enclosure and the disk idling, but it's interesting to see that bug nonetheless | 14:20 |
| ali1234 | don;t listen to anyone who tells you GPUs are all that | 14:21 |
| ali1234 | i;ve done experiments with openCL and a entry level GPU is slower than the CPU even for massively parallel tasks that should be optimal for it | 14:21 |
| popey | alt-tab in unity2d is near-instant, much like my crappy old xp machine at work | 14:21 |
| popey | alt-tab in unity3d is painful | 14:21 |
| exobuzz | dwatkins, with this change/revert, my usb device is stable with no disconnects. without it, its flakey. i suspect the chipset might be out of spec, or the kernel was trying to be "too quick". of course. manufacturers often only test with windows im suer | 14:21 |
| AlanBell | I have always found 3d to be a lot quicker than 2d for doing things like moving windows about | 14:21 |
| directhex | opencl has some VERY specific issues | 14:22 |
| directhex | treating a GPU as a CPU is doomed to failure | 14:22 |
| popey | I am using nvidia though, which makes me a) an idiot and b) evil and c) not worth considering | 14:22 |
| popey | Note: There may be small amounts of sarcasm | 14:22 |
| ali1234 | it's lucky then that opencl does not treat it as a cpu! | 14:22 |
| exobuzz | popey, amd ? | 14:22 |
| popey | intel c2d | 14:22 |
| exobuzz | i have intel gfx | 14:23 |
| directhex | the killer is the time taken to move data to the GPU, and take data back from it. | 14:23 |
| ali1234 | yes, agreed | 14:23 |
| AlanBell | hmm, alt+tab is instant for me | 14:23 |
| directhex | although clearly if you're using a GPU which has cores measures in dozens, not hundreds -> thousands, then it's not going to set the world on fire | 14:23 |
| directhex | plus those gpus have slow memory access | 14:23 |
| exobuzz | directhex, my gpu is on the same silicon as the cpu | 14:23 |
| exobuzz | sandy bridge | 14:23 |
| directhex | exobuzz, yeah, but intel graphics struggles to go beyond the dozen polygon mark | 14:23 |
| ali1234 | well all i know is that for large array addition, 1 core of my phenom 2 beats my gt240 | 14:23 |
| directhex | intel graphics more or less draws a desktop | 14:24 |
| exobuzz | directhex, sandy bridge isnt actually that bad, although the bleeding edge git stuff for it sometimes doesnt work :) glxgears didnt work yesterday heh | 14:24 |
| directhex | exobuzz, yes, yes it is that bad. | 14:24 |
| ali1234 | it's a pity that nvidia can't write drivers that actually work | 14:24 |
| directhex | a 6-year-old low-end geforce will still outperform it | 14:24 |
| exobuzz | directhex, http://www.notebookcheck.net/typo3temp/pics/1166b97581.gif | 14:25 |
| ali1234 | as it is, intel cards beat nvidia in some situations | 14:25 |
| ali1234 | where some situations = anything but FPS games | 14:25 |
| ali1234 | i want to see someone do a benchmark based on "time taken to render a launchpad bug page in firefox" | 14:25 |
| directhex | or sports or strategy or rpg | 14:25 |
| exobuzz | directhex, http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Intel-HD-Graphics-3000-graphics-solution.43710.0.html | 14:26 |
| exobuzz | directhex, actually it's quicker than you think then | 14:26 |
| ali1234 | time taken on nvidia gt240 = 10 seconds | 14:26 |
| ali1234 | time taken on intel pineview = too short to measure | 14:26 |
| Tommeh | 'Nvidia' is not the fairest term on many occasions, however. | 14:27 |
| directhex | "it competes at a level of entry-level graphics cards like the Geforce G 310M, the GT 220M or the ATI HD5470" | 14:27 |
| Tommeh | Given that the 'free' drivers are buggy in certain cases (particularly in 3D) | 14:28 |
| exobuzz | yes, but you said a 6 year old low end card will outperform it, which isnt true | 14:28 |
| ali1234 | lol | 14:28 |
| ali1234 | 6 year old low end nvidia card is what, a 440 mx? | 14:28 |
| directhex | your timescale is out slightly | 14:29 |
| AlanBell | so what won't run unity? | 14:29 |
| directhex | 6600gt, or thereabouts | 14:29 |
| ali1234 | directhex: 6600 is not low end | 14:29 |
| exobuzz | it wasnt low end back then | 14:29 |
| exobuzz | yeh | 14:29 |
| ali1234 | directhex: 6600 is the point where spending any more money make you an idiot | 14:29 |
| exobuzz | and a x700 from around 6 yerrs ago is not as quick as it too | 14:29 |
| directhex | a gf4 mx is closer to 9 years old | 14:30 |
| directhex | and was rebadged gf2 silicon anyway | 14:30 |
| exobuzz | im not arguing my gpu is better than a £100 nvidia card, but its quite ok for built in graphics | 14:30 |
| exobuzz | and the video decoding acceleration is very decent | 14:30 |
| directhex | wake me when i can play minecraft on my laptop's i5 | 14:31 |
| ali1234 | i would imagine that will happen some time after notch learns how to code | 14:31 |
| mfraz74 | i'm using intel video and with 10.10 the startup splash screen was fine, but now with 11.04 it is plain ascii although the shutdown screen is fine | 14:31 |
| AlanBell | I thought the on motherboard intel graphics were supposed to be rubbish and anyone serious would have an nvidia or AMD graphics card | 14:33 |
| popey | thats the theory for 3d gaming, yes | 14:33 |
| ali1234 | onboard intel is plenty to run unity | 14:33 |
| ali1234 | in fact unity runs a lot better on intel than on nvidia | 14:33 |
| popey | +1 | 14:33 |
| exobuzz | AlanBell, compiz etc is very quick here. much better than on my x700 ati from my last machine (6 year old card) | 14:33 |
| ali1234 | due to it not being a FPS game | 14:33 |
| directhex | or rpg, or strategy, or sport, or peggle | 14:34 |
| ali1234 | rubbish | 14:34 |
| ali1234 | we all know that nvidia optimize only for the most popular game | 14:34 |
| exobuzz | brb. restarting x | 14:34 |
| ali1234 | interestingly the new nvidia driver is about twice as fast when running minecraft | 14:35 |
| ali1234 | but everything else is slower | 14:35 |
| AlanBell | so how old does an nvidea/amd card have to be to not run unity? | 14:35 |
| directhex | intel's built-in graphics for pre-sandy-bridge i5 (4000-series? whatevs) chokes on civilization 5. or 4, for that matter. | 14:35 |
| AlanBell | I know S3 openchrome won't | 14:35 |
| directhex | 2 is fine | 14:35 |
| AlanBell | and the intel from pre 2004ish might be a problem now | 14:35 |
| AlanBell | but I am going to retest my Dell from 2002 later, see if that works again | 14:36 |
| ali1234 | you won't have a problem with: nvidia, intel | 14:36 |
| AlanBell | it did compiz on Hardy, then the drivers changed and it stopped | 14:36 |
| directhex | not looking forward to 11.04 :/ | 14:36 |
| ali1234 | you will have problems with everything else | 14:36 |
| ali1234 | ati will claim tosupport 3d and then not work properly, because it never does | 14:37 |
| ali1234 | powervr based tech would work, if you can find a driver | 14:37 |
| directhex | fglrx has improved rapidly over the years | 14:37 |
| directhex | it actually boots and is stable, which is a big change | 14:37 |
| exobuzz | ati dropped support for my card benig too old before their drivers even worked properly heh | 14:37 |
| exobuzz | being | 14:37 |
| ali1234 | everything else doesn't do 3d | 14:37 |
| exobuzz | o2 joggler can do "1080p h264" decoding in hardware with little cpu usage.. shame its res is only 800x480 :) | 14:38 |
| exobuzz | (pwoervr) | 14:38 |
| exobuzz | powervr even | 14:38 |
| AlanBell | does that do compiz? | 14:38 |
| exobuzz | yeh | 14:38 |
| directhex | gma500? | 14:39 |
| AlanBell | directhex: good one | 14:39 |
| exobuzz | directhex, same gfx chipset but i think it is us15w or whatever or called something different in the joggler | 14:40 |
| ali1234 | not quite, it's EMGD | 14:40 |
| ali1234 | same powervr core, yeah | 14:40 |
| ali1234 | and so same issues with drivers | 14:40 |
| exobuzz | only emgd supports a "modern" xorg so i use emgd 1.5.2 with xorg 1.9 | 14:41 |
| exobuzz | and an older libva | 14:41 |
| exobuzz | gpu is "Intel SCH US15W" | 14:41 |
| exobuzz | http://ark.intel.com/product.aspx?id=35444 | 14:42 |
| exobuzz | now that I have brought up the joggler, i can mention i updated all the linux distribution images i provide yesterday http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/ | 14:43 |
| exobuzz | :) | 14:43 |
| popey | ali1234: seen a third person mention lockup writing to swap now | 14:47 |
| ali1234 | popey: where? | 14:47 |
| ali1234 | and how come no one ever mentions it here? | 14:47 |
| popey | in #twil, he's gone afk for now | 14:47 |
| jibadeeha | can't wait for this ... http://www.retrogamescollector.com/sinclair-zx-spectrum-to-be-re-released-in-2012/ | 14:47 |
| ali1234 | hey, do you wanna do a test? | 14:47 |
| popey | sure | 14:47 |
| ali1234 | do a "big" screenshot in minecraft | 14:47 |
| exobuzz | jibadeeha, whats wrong with an old spectrum ? :) | 14:47 |
| popey | define big | 14:47 |
| ali1234 | then try to convert it to a png in imagemagick | 14:47 |
| ali1234 | oh, the one you get when you press shift-f2 or whatever | 14:48 |
| jibadeeha | exobuzz, mine is broken as i once pulled out the interface ii while switched on | 14:48 |
| ali1234 | the one that is 20 gigapixels | 14:48 |
| popey | didnt know you could do that | 14:48 |
| exobuzz | jibadeeha, woops.. they are still quite cheap though on ebay' | 14:48 |
| ali1234 | anyway do one of those and then try to shrink it down with imagemagick | 14:48 |
| directhex | spectrum is too mainstream | 14:48 |
| directhex | get a dragon! | 14:48 |
| ali1234 | this is guaranteed to use all your ram and a few gigs of swap | 14:49 |
| exobuzz | directhex, i have a dragon 32 ;-) got a dragon 64 ? | 14:49 |
| popey | ok, one mo | 14:49 |
| jibadeeha | exobuzz, tempting to buy an old one ... could i really go back to using a tape recorder | 14:49 |
| ali1234 | now, on a decent OS, this process would be able to churn away in the background without impacting on foreground processes | 14:49 |
| ali1234 | if you want, run it with ionice and nice | 14:49 |
| exobuzz | jibadeeha, compact flash / sd cart ? | 14:49 |
| jibadeeha | i always wanted a dragon or bbc | 14:49 |
| ali1234 | when i run it, it locks up the computer until it finishes running | 14:49 |
| popey | alan@wopr:~/.minecraft/screenshots$ file 2011-04-25_14.49.56.png | 14:50 |
| popey | 2011-04-25_14.49.56.png: PNG image data, 1680 x 1026, 8-bit/color RGB, non-interlaced | 14:50 |
| popey | is that big? | 14:50 |
| ali1234 | no | 14:50 |
| exobuzz | i made a "demo" on the dragon. loose use of the term, it was a spaceship and some circles in basic, and erm you played the music on the casette (it had casette audio passthrough which was cool). i was only young though | 14:50 |
| popey | how do you do it then? | 14:50 |
| ali1234 | well apparently theyve removed it | 14:50 |
| popey | gimmie a big file? | 14:50 |
| popey | or should i try and scale one up? | 14:51 |
| ali1234 | i can't they are 6 GB | 14:51 |
| popey | haha | 14:51 |
| ali1234 | you can write 6GB of /dev/urandom to a file i guess | 14:51 |
| ali1234 | and then try to process it | 14:52 |
| jibadeeha | exobuzz, i remember learning Z80 assembly language but wasn't very good at it and it was hard without an assembler .. how times have changed | 14:52 |
| exobuzz | jibadeeha, 3e 02 ;-) | 14:52 |
| exobuzz | ld a,02 i think. | 14:52 |
| exobuzz | thats all i remember. | 14:52 |
| jibadeeha | exobuzz, lol oh yeah those 8-bit registers | 14:52 |
| exobuzz | them were the days | 14:52 |
| exobuzz | <3 spectrum | 14:53 |
| exobuzz | i love it when this channels gets all 8 bit | 14:53 |
| exobuzz | much more interesting than all this ubuntu nonsense ;-) | 14:53 |
| jibadeeha | i had a SInclair QL before i finally bought a PC .. .loved that computer | 14:53 |
| exobuzz | i got 2 of them too. heh crappy microdrive tech | 14:53 |
| exobuzz | nice basic though | 14:53 |
| exobuzz | and fast.. 68008 cpu | 14:54 |
| jibadeeha | yeah excellent computer but let down by the twin microdrives | 14:54 |
| exobuzz | i lost all my code on microdrive cart. now i got a plus d but, im cross i never made tape backups | 14:54 |
| jibadeeha | they were rubbish but a god send when all you knew before was the tape recorder | 14:55 |
| exobuzz | yeh | 14:55 |
| exobuzz | http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/magazine/speccy/yspp2.jpg - second letter - last of my remaining speccy code | 14:56 |
| exobuzz | i was very chuffed when i got this in, was 15 then i think | 14:56 |
| exobuzz | they missed the last line of data statements though. probably just needed a 22 DATA 999 or something. oh well | 14:57 |
| jibadeeha | exobuzz, respect dude that is really cool | 14:57 |
| jibadeeha | exobuzz, i got one of my program listings printed in program pitstop but they published it by accident as it didn't correspond to the letter | 14:58 |
| exobuzz | program pitstop! you should dig that out | 14:58 |
| exobuzz | aah nice memories | 14:58 |
| exobuzz | i rememebr typing out a long tim follin tune in your sinclair program pitstop. 3 channel audio routine. very cool. but took a long time heh | 14:59 |
| jibadeeha | exobuzz, the letter and instructions were for a disassembler but the listing was my crappy basic program that renumbered lines .. imagine how many people must have been annoyed to see my listing | 14:59 |
| exobuzz | http://craigsretrocomputingpage.eu5.org/startip2/tune_disassembly_hexdump.html that one | 14:59 |
| exobuzz | jibadeeha, ouch, they really messed up. but nice to have your code in! | 14:59 |
| popey | ali1234: just ran a script to eat all ram | 15:00 |
| popey | as soon as it hit swap the mouse was very sluggish | 15:00 |
| popey | http://paste.ubuntu.com/598739/ | 15:00 |
| jibadeeha | exobuzz, yeah i remember cycling home as fast as i could to tell my mum and dad that they'd published my code lol | 15:00 |
| popey | went a bit nuts | 15:00 |
| exobuzz | jibadeeha, mplayer http://modstream.exotica.org.uk/modstream/?md5=ca095372ca71989fb3e12f829882eecc | 15:01 |
| exobuzz | classic speccy tune heh | 15:01 |
| ali1234 | popey: turns out you can do it by scaling up in imagemagick | 15:01 |
| ali1234 | popey: try convert any.png -format png -resize 10000x10000 out.png | 15:01 |
| ali1234 | this will instantly use about 6 GB of ram | 15:02 |
| exobuzz | jibadeeha, i miss the feeling of getting the latest copy of your sinclair in the post. the excitement. i get retro gamer these days, but i guess it will never be quite the same | 15:02 |
| jibadeeha | exobuzz, pmsl i remember that tune - that is so funny | 15:02 |
| ali1234 | computer will lock up (mouse won't even move, screen won't redraw) | 15:02 |
| jibadeeha | exobuzz, is retro gamer good .. i nearly bought that once | 15:02 |
| ali1234 | only option is ctrl-alt-f1 (takes 5 minutes), login (takes another 5 minutes) and killall convert | 15:02 |
| ali1234 | then when you switch back to X11 all your ssh connections will have timed out and firefox will pop up a hundred "script not responding" warnings | 15:03 |
| jibadeeha | exobuzz, i've got 1000s of sinclair games now for the emulator .. bought this CD full of them | 15:03 |
| exobuzz | speccy out run . wooot http://modstream.exotica.org.uk/modstream/?md5=eb76edd54a6aefb2730b0527911e8fd7 | 15:04 |
| exobuzz | jibadeeha, "chaos" by julian gollop. played that ? | 15:04 |
| shauno | that convert command doesn't peg ram here. pegs a core to itself, but settles out about 550Mb ram | 15:04 |
| exobuzz | old fave of mine.. great multiplayer | 15:04 |
| popey | ali1234: that finished without swapping :) | 15:04 |
| ali1234 | shauno: add a few zeros until it does :) | 15:04 |
| popey | will make it 10x bigger | 15:04 |
| ali1234 | i might have miscalculated | 15:04 |
| ali1234 | hmm yeah here 10000x10000 goes very fast | 15:05 |
| ali1234 | try 36000x17700 | 15:05 |
| jibadeeha | exobuzz, oh yes 3 channel music .. loved outrun and that blonde babe in the car | 15:05 |
| exobuzz | she was hot and pixellated | 15:05 |
| exobuzz | sam fox strip poker, in the spectrum.. . heh | 15:06 |
| jibadeeha | i knew sam fox was coming lol | 15:06 |
| exobuzz | s/in/on | 15:06 |
| jibadeeha | i remember the your sinclair edition covering vixen - was sort of embarrassed to buy it | 15:06 |
| popey | 3455 alan 20 0 3999m 3.8g 2740 R 92 49.0 0:40.32 convert | 15:07 |
| exobuzz | oh yeh. vixen! and erm. game over, and barbarian i think were naughty. and psyscho pigs uxb | 15:07 |
| ali1234 | popey: yeah | 15:08 |
| ali1234 | is computer still usable while that's churning away? | 15:08 |
| popey | yes | 15:08 |
| ali1234 | because mine totally locks up | 15:08 |
| popey | i can kill it with perl though | 15:08 |
| jibadeeha | exobuzz, you remember them all .. though hard to forgetm, especially barbarian | 15:08 |
| popey | get it to swap and it really locks up | 15:08 |
| jibadeeha | exobuzz, just tried chaos now .. asking how many wizards i want | 15:08 |
| ali1234 | ok, next step is to run latencytop while doing this | 15:09 |
| exobuzz | playing alone? 3 maybe. you and 2 computer | 15:09 |
| ali1234 | preferably on a remote ssh because otherwise it will never update the display | 15:09 |
| shauno | wow. 1Mx1M took just over 6 minutes to scale | 15:11 |
| ali1234 | how much ram you got? | 15:11 |
| shauno | 4Gb | 15:12 |
| ali1234 | same | 15:12 |
| shauno | someone needs to teach that thing to thread :( | 15:12 |
| ali1234 | how big is your input file? | 15:12 |
| shauno | hah, no idea, I just nuked it because dropbox was trying to upload it | 15:12 |
| ali1234 | it's not CPU bound at all | 15:12 |
| ali1234 | it's slow because of the swapping | 15:13 |
| ali1234 | 1Mx1M you say? | 15:13 |
| shauno | it's sitting at 100% of one core on mine | 15:13 |
| popey | yeah, same here | 15:13 |
| ali1234 | hum | 15:13 |
| ali1234 | mine too | 15:13 |
| ali1234 | actually, here it is using 330% of my CPU, so over 3 cores | 15:13 |
| ali1234 | and only 200MB of ram | 15:13 |
| ali1234 | so the computer remains completely usable | 15:14 |
| ali1234 | well, sort of | 15:14 |
| ali1234 | it must look at how much ram+swap you have, and use a different algorithm if it can't fit the whole thing in ram+swap | 15:15 |
| ali1234 | which is stupid, for this it should only consider ram size, not ram + swap | 15:15 |
| shauno | odd, top shows it bouncing between 'running' and 'stuck' | 15:16 |
| Azelphur | DragonKeeper: btw I'm following portal 2 / wine stuff | 15:16 |
| ali1234 | maybe it's not even doing anything | 15:16 |
| shauno | but yeah, 1Mx1M is using about 600M | 15:17 |
| Azelphur | DragonKeeper: It's a bug in steams DRM that causes the crash on startup, there are many many windows users affected too. There's a 100+ page thread on the steam forums \o/ | 15:17 |
| ali1234 | it's probably using all that memory building the datastructure it will use to store the real image, which is 2.7 TB | 15:17 |
| shauno | hah, vsize is up to 11Gb | 15:18 |
| DragonKeeper | Azelphur im using a DVD version not steam | 15:18 |
| ali1234 | oh yeah | 15:19 |
| Azelphur | DVD version works o.O | 15:19 |
| Azelphur | are you using -wavonly? | 15:19 |
| ali1234 | don't do this experiment on the desktop, or nautilus will use several GB trying to read the resulting file | 15:19 |
| DragonKeeper | Azelphur mine crashes on splash screen with err:d3d:wined3d_wndproc Window 0x20082 is not registered with wined3d. | 15:19 |
| shauno | yeah, I'm getting something similar with the mac. the metadata service is going nuts | 15:20 |
| directhex | um... dvd version? | 15:23 |
| exobuzz | m machine is very responsive even though it is swapping now | 15:24 |
| exobuzz | doing imagemagick scaling to 1Mx1M pixels | 15:24 |
| ali1234 | scaling to 1Mx1M is a bad test | 15:24 |
| ali1234 | try scaling to 50000x50000 instead | 15:25 |
| exobuzz | whats a good test ? | 15:25 |
| exobuzz | ok | 15:25 |
| exobuzz | tis working. | 15:25 |
| ali1234 | now try to open a new terminal window or something | 15:25 |
| ali1234 | or even just minimize a window or anything like that | 15:26 |
| exobuzz | yeh was ok | 15:26 |
| exobuzz | still ok | 15:26 |
| exobuzz | nothing ground to a halt. but im on 2.6.39 btw not 2.6.38 | 15:27 |
| ali1234 | it's done already? | 15:27 |
| exobuzz | not yet. | 15:27 |
| exobuzz | i even loaded thunderbird and checked email | 15:28 |
| MartijnVdS | 1Mx1M is going to be painful :) | 15:28 |
| shauno | painful was what we were trying to replicate, but I can't seem to convince convert to use swap at all | 15:29 |
| exobuzz | it might start using temp files instead of swap | 15:30 |
| ali1234 | hmm weird | 15:30 |
| MartijnVdS | shauno: do you have >4G RAM? :) | 15:30 |
| ali1234 | try 36000x17700 | 15:30 |
| shauno | 'just' 4 | 15:30 |
| ali1234 | i also see no swap usage at 50000x50000 | 15:30 |
| exobuzz | 3m10 seconds. done | 15:30 |
| ali1234 | it might have a hardcoded limit or something | 15:30 |
| shauno | but I haven't got it to go over 1Gb yet. it gets about 600Mb and then just gets slower | 15:30 |
| exobuzz | or 4mins30 second. i shoudl read the man file for "time" | 15:31 |
| shauno | I think maybe look for something that should flood swap, rather than something that appears to be 'clever' about it | 15:31 |
| ali1234 | flooding swap is hard though | 15:31 |
| ali1234 | if yo ujust allocate a lot of ram and don't use it nothing will happen | 15:31 |
| popey | http://popey.com/~alan/eatram.pl.txt | 15:32 |
| popey | that works | 15:32 |
| popey | kills my machine pretty quick | 15:32 |
| popey | 8GB | 15:32 |
| MartijnVdS | there are easier ways to kill your machine using Perl :) | 15:33 |
| shauno | :) <- may be one of them. you never know. | 15:34 |
| ali1234 | yes that instantly locked up the machine | 15:34 |
| MartijnVdS | perl -e '@a = 1..1_000_000_000_000' *boom* | 15:34 |
| MartijnVdS | No need to use strings.. just fill an array :) | 15:35 |
| shauno | yeah, popey's works. 4Gb into swap and counting | 15:35 |
| MartijnVdS | gah my entire machine is teh slowz | 15:35 |
| MartijnVdS | and I have 8G | 15:36 |
| shauno | hm, stopped at 4.16Gb in swap & 2 'real' | 15:36 |
| exobuzz | well. that hosed my system | 15:49 |
| MartijnVdS | \o/ | 15:49 |
| exobuzz | good to know a simple recusive bash function is enough to bring everything to a halt so you cant even ctrl+alt+delete heh | 15:49 |
| exobuzz | maybe ubuntu shiould have some sensible ulimits | 15:49 |
| shauno | that eatram made your box fall over? | 15:51 |
| exobuzz | ok. 600 process limit in place. much better | 16:01 |
| Bulldog | another skype update o.O wow 2 in a week .. most work skype has ever done lol | 16:05 |
| jacobw | i HATE the scroll bars | 16:17 |
| jacobw | plural intended, because there's so many differnt ones | 16:18 |
| jacobw | new scroll bars in unity that is | 16:18 |
| penguin42 | jacobw: Yeh I'm not loving them either - they seem to have infected the gnome apps in my KDE world as well | 16:19 |
| penguin42 | jacobw: I might get used to them though not sure yet | 16:19 |
| penguin42 | I can see they take less horizontal space up which is an advantage | 16:19 |
| jacobw | it isn't advantage when you can't find them in the first place | 16:20 |
| penguin42 | well yes | 16:20 |
| Darael | Am I misunderstanding the uptime manpage, or am I right in thinking that a load-average of eleven or more, on a 4-core system, with CPU-usage below 25% as reported by htop ought not to be possible? | 16:25 |
| MartijnVdS | Darael: you misunderstand :) | 16:30 |
| Darael | MartijnVdS: Phew. | 16:30 |
| MartijnVdS | Darael: things can be in a "runnable state" for shorter than the CPU measurement interval | 16:31 |
| Darael | MartijnVdS: Makes sense, aye. Cheers. | 16:31 |
| penguin42 | Darael: They are processes that want to run - 100 processes all waiting for IO can give a LA of 100 | 16:34 |
| penguin42 | Darael: Or 100 processes all trying to run and getting scheduled in and out all trying to use CPU can do it | 16:34 |
| * penguin42 has seen about 800 on his poor 2 core laptop when things really go wrong :-) | 16:35 | |
| === ChrisB is now known as Guest32650 | ||
| === serial is now known as Guest28364 | ||
| * brobostigon returns, beautiful sun, :) | 17:28 | |
| * MartijnVdS plays some more SpaceChem | 17:38 | |
| czajkowski | I am addicted to jonahan creak | 18:02 |
| shauno | some things it's safer to just not admit aloud ;) | 18:03 |
| czajkowski | :) | 18:03 |
| czajkowski | everyone enjoy dr. who being back on saturday? | 18:03 |
| bigcalm | Undecided | 18:04 |
| czajkowski | hmm | 18:04 |
| bigcalm | The ep was drawn out, the acting was painful compaired to previous eps. | 18:04 |
| bigcalm | Didn't want a 2 parter as an introduction | 18:04 |
| bigcalm | Otherwise enjoyed it | 18:05 |
| czajkowski | I'm still peeved that the dr has 2 companions | 18:05 |
| czajkowski | amy ponds hubby drives me batty | 18:05 |
| bigcalm | Hayley complained of tummy problems after watching the ep :S | 18:05 |
| shauno | I'll give you that one | 18:06 |
| shauno | there has to be a limit to how many companions he can have before it turns into scooby who | 18:06 |
| popey | haha shauno | 18:08 |
| gord | hehe, bear grylls has a range of clothing, its not what you might think, just shirts and stuff. not animal skins ;) | 18:16 |
| MartijnVdS | gord: you know the meme, right? :) | 18:18 |
| gord | sigh, i'm 25 now, maybe i should actually buy an iron | 18:18 |
| === serial is now known as Guest24163 | ||
| MichealH | A symlink to /var/www will not work D: | 18:33 |
| MichealH | It gives me a 403 | 18:33 |
| Azelphur | that'll be permissions, not anything to do with a symlink | 18:34 |
| Azelphur | :P | 18:34 |
| MichealH | What should the permissions be? | 18:34 |
| MichealH | 755? | 18:34 |
| Azelphur | do you understand the permissions system or are you just picking random numbers? :P | 18:34 |
| Azelphur | (picking random numbers is fine, I'll help you understand it properly XD) | 18:35 |
| AlanBell | octal permissions should not be allowed! | 18:35 |
| MichealH | Azelphur: 755 is Owner = rwx Group = r-x Others = r-x | 18:35 |
| MichealH | :P | 18:35 |
| AlanBell | yay | 18:36 |
| Azelphur | ok :P | 18:36 |
| Azelphur | so you should know the answer to your own question then | 18:36 |
| MichealH | Not really, :P | 18:36 |
| AlanBell | I have a client that goes on about 755 permissions, he has *no* clue what it means | 18:36 |
| Azelphur | who is /var/www owned by? | 18:36 |
| MichealH | root, I guess | 18:36 |
| Azelphur | don't guess, check. | 18:36 |
| AlanBell | and who is apache running as | 18:37 |
| MichealH | drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-04-25 18:17 www | 18:37 |
| Azelphur | MichealH: and now for AlanBell's answer :p | 18:37 |
| AlanBell | so "user apache is running as" != "owner of /var/www" so apache has r-x | 18:37 |
| MichealH | How would I check that? :P | 18:38 |
| AlanBell | ps aux |grep apache | 18:38 |
| Azelphur | MichealH: ps aux | grep apache | 18:38 |
| AlanBell | it will be www-data | 18:38 |
| Azelphur | indeed :P | 18:38 |
| AlanBell | sudo chown www-data:www-data /var/www | 18:38 |
| MichealH | I have recently restarted he server using sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 reload | 18:41 |
| MichealH | is that correct? :P | 18:41 |
| AlanBell | yeah, that is ok | 18:42 |
| AlanBell | in the startup script for apache it switches to the www-data user | 18:42 |
| AlanBell | just because root kicked off the startup script doesn't mean the service will run as root | 18:42 |
| MichealH | drwxr-xr-x 2 www-data www-data 4096 2011-04-25 18:42 www | 18:43 |
| MichealH | But it still will not stop the 403 | 18:44 |
| MichealH | The ps aux command shows: | 18:45 |
| MichealH | michealh 4416 0.0 0.1 3324 792 pts/2 S+ 18:45 0:00 grep --color=auto apache | 18:45 |
| MichealH | it seems to be running as me | 18:46 |
| MichealH | Well... Multiple entries, most are www-data | 18:46 |
| popey | thats the grep running as you | 18:47 |
| popey | not apache | 18:47 |
| MichealH | Okies | 18:47 |
| MichealH | Still throwing a 403 :/ | 18:48 |
| MichealH | Would it make any difference if It was in a directory I specified in a file in /etc/apache2/sites-available ? | 18:50 |
| MichealH | popey: ^^ | 18:52 |
| popey | sorry I'm a but busy right now | 18:53 |
| popey | need to go and put the kids to bed | 18:53 |
| popey | i would check your /var/log/apache/error.log though | 18:53 |
| MichealH | [Mon Apr 25 17:23:29 2011] [error] [client 192.168.0.1] Symbolic link not allowed or link target not accessible: | 18:55 |
| MichealH | Then the dir name of the symlink# | 18:55 |
| MichealH | :/ | 18:55 |
| popey | that helps :) | 18:57 |
| MichealH | In my /etc/apache2/httpd.conf I have "Options FollowSymLinks" on | 18:57 |
| MichealH | for that dir | 18:57 |
| popey | pass then | 18:57 |
| MichealH | This may help | 18:59 |
| MichealH | [Mon Apr 25 18:59:18 2011] [error] [client 192.168.0.1] Directory index forbidden by Options directive | 18:59 |
| Guest24163 | sounds like someone has been trying ../../../../ | 18:59 |
| MichealH | huh? | 19:00 |
| Guest24163 | trying to propagate back through your top level dir, its a old hacking trick thats in loads of books | 19:01 |
| Guest24163 | but you have disabled indexing hense why i thought of that | 19:02 |
| MichealH | I think I havent | 19:02 |
| MichealH | Would not defining the index in the httpd.conf be bad, as i have a conf in /etc/apache2/sites-availible | 19:03 |
| MichealH | With Document toot and stuff | 19:03 |
| MichealH | s.toot.root | 19:03 |
| Guest24163 | it would, yup | 19:03 |
| MichealH | How would I do that in the httpd.conf? | 19:03 |
| Guest24163 | it says directory index forbidden which says to me that you have disabled indexing of directories | 19:04 |
| MichealH | How would I enable it? | 19:04 |
| ali1234 | so everyone managed to crash their system with swapping? | 19:05 |
| MichealH | Hmm... Now the symlink is playing up | 19:05 |
| ali1234 | any ideas where to go from here? | 19:05 |
| Guest24163 | Options -Indexes | 19:05 |
| Guest24163 | theres loads of details on apache wiki, it would be a great place to start with :) | 19:06 |
| MichealH | I have the main dir up | 19:06 |
| popey | ali1234: swappiness? | 19:06 |
| Guest24163 | can i ask what your trying to do? | 19:06 |
| MichealH | But the symlink, apache will not find it in its list and it is a 403 | 19:06 |
| ali1234 | popey: i already tried that | 19:06 |
| ali1234 | it made it slightly worse if anything | 19:06 |
| shauno | ali1234: mine didn't crash, just made minecraft a bit laggy. but I was kinda playing devil's advocate ;) | 19:06 |
| MichealH | Guest24163: Im tryng to symlink ~/ubuntu-at to /var/www/ubuntu-at with /var/www empty | 19:07 |
| MichealH | I now cannot access the ubuntu-at directory | 19:07 |
| ali1234 | what do the options for ulimit mean? | 19:07 |
| Guest24163 | set the permissions level? | 19:07 |
| MichealH | Guest24163: Huh? | 19:08 |
| Guest24163 | 403 is forbidden right? | 19:08 |
| MichealH | Yeah | 19:08 |
| Guest24163 | have you set the permissions level right? | 19:08 |
| MichealH | Its 755 | 19:08 |
| Guest24163 | hmm | 19:08 |
| Guest24163 | are you testing on a live machine | 19:09 |
| Guest24163 | ? | 19:09 |
| MichealH | drwxr-xr-x 2 www-data www-data 4096 2011-04-25 18:17 ubuntu-at | 19:09 |
| shauno | beware that apache pays attention to where links are going | 19:09 |
| MichealH | Its on my server | 19:09 |
| MichealH | shauno: Hmm? | 19:09 |
| MichealH | Its in my homedir | 19:09 |
| shauno | if you allow indexes in /var/www, but don't allow them in / (which is default in ubuntu's install), /var/www/ubuntu-at as a symlink to ~/ubuntu-at won't allow indexes because ~/ubuntu-at is under / but not /var/www | 19:09 |
| MichealH | How would I allow indexes in /? | 19:10 |
| Guest24163 | directory / | 19:10 |
| Guest24163 | option indexes | 19:10 |
| shauno | I'd just add a <Directory /your/home/ubuntu-at> in your vhost. indexes are disabled under / for very sane reasons | 19:10 |
| Guest24163 | ah, thanks shauno :) | 19:11 |
| ali1234 | hmm RLIMIT_RSS does exactly what i need to do, unfortunately it only works on 2.4 kernels | 19:11 |
| shauno | otherwise people can just use .. to start wandering your entire machine | 19:11 |
| Guest24163 | ../../../ | 19:12 |
| MichealH | shauno: | 19:12 |
| MichealH | <Directory /home/michealh/ubuntu-at> | 19:12 |
| MichealH | Options Indexes | 19:12 |
| MichealH | </Directory> | 19:12 |
| MichealH | ? | 19:13 |
| shauno | pretty much. I'd just copy the entry for /var/www that's already there | 19:13 |
| shauno | but that should work as-is | 19:13 |
| MichealH | Hrmm, I still get a 403 | 19:14 |
| shauno | you reloaded? | 19:14 |
| MichealH | Yeah | 19:14 |
| MichealH | Lemme copy the /var/www one | 19:14 |
| shauno | does the last entry in error.log still say the index is forbidden? | 19:14 |
| MichealH | [Mon Apr 25 19:14:16 2011] [error] [client 192.168.0.1] File does not exist: /srv/www/meetings.touchlay.com/www/favicon.ico | 19:15 |
| MichealH | :/ | 19:15 |
| MichealH | Only error | 19:16 |
| gordonjcp | MichealH: lern2pastebin | 19:16 |
| MichealH | its for multi line pastes :P | 19:16 |
| shauno | that one's normal. if you're getting a 403 forbidden, there should be something in either error.log or access.log to match tho | 19:16 |
| MichealH | Not single-line pastes | 19:16 |
| MichealH | where will i find that? | 19:17 |
| shauno | access.log is in the same folder as the error.log you're already looking at. but I think the 403 should be in error :/ | 19:17 |
| MichealH | shauno: Im using a vhost with only errorlog enables | 19:17 |
| shauno | [Mon Apr 25 18:59:18 2011] [error] [client 192.168.0.1] Directory index forbidden by Options directive <= looking for a new version of this one | 19:18 |
| MichealH | Im not getting that anymore | 19:19 |
| shauno | I'd suspect apache wants +rx on your both ~/ and ~/ubuntu-at/ then | 19:20 |
| MichealH | What command shall I run? | 19:20 |
| MichealH | sudo chmod +rx ~/ ? | 19:20 |
| MichealH | drwxr-xr-x 2 www-data www-data 4096 2011-04-25 18:17 ubuntu-at | 19:21 |
| MichealH | and for home dir | 19:21 |
| MichealH | drwxr-xr-x 23 michealh michealh 4096 2011-04-25 19:15 michealh | 19:21 |
| MartijnVdS | SymlinksIfOwnerMatch? | 19:22 |
| shauno | it'd be really handy if it was logging errors :/ | 19:22 |
| MichealH | MartijnVdS: Hmm? | 19:22 |
| MartijnVdS | try adding to the Options line | 19:23 |
| MartijnVdS | -SymlinksIfOwnerMatch | 19:23 |
| MartijnVdS | and +Symlinks | 19:23 |
| MartijnVdS | be sure to read the apache documentation about it though - there are security implications | 19:23 |
| popey | why not host them properly with their own vhosts in /srv/<host>/www/ rather than smooshed up in /var/www ? | 19:24 |
| MartijnVdS | popey++ | 19:24 |
| shauno | I'd be really tempted to knock your loglevel up to info while you're doing this. bring it back down after if you like, but troubleshooting blind is messy | 19:24 |
| MichealH | shauno: How could I do that? | 19:25 |
| MichealH | Hrmm... still a 403 | 19:25 |
| MichealH | I acctually do have this one in /srv/www/meetings.touchlay.com/www/ | 19:26 |
| MichealH | MartijnVdS: | 19:27 |
| MichealH | Illegal option Symlinks | 19:27 |
| MichealH | ...fail! | 19:27 |
| MichealH | :/ | 19:27 |
| MartijnVdS | MichealH: please read the Apache documentation about the "Options" option | 19:27 |
| MartijnVdS | MichealH: it explains which ones are valid and what they do | 19:27 |
| MichealH | apache docs | 19:27 |
| MichealH | oops... tought this was chrome | 19:28 |
| MartijnVdS | http://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/mod/core.html#options | 19:28 |
| dwatkins | I noticed, MichealH ;) | 19:28 |
| shauno | I've discovered a glaring design flaw with my macbook :(( | 19:29 |
| dwatkins | Do tell, shauno. | 19:29 |
| shauno | I can left-click. I can right-click. but I can't do both at once. this makes cannon fodder unplayable. | 19:29 |
| MartijnVdS | it runs macos? | 19:29 |
| dwatkins | shauno: I can't middle-click on mine, unless I get a mouse ;) | 19:30 |
| shauno | MartijnVdS: when everyone was filling their swaps and bringing their systems to a grinding halt, I got some mild lag in minecraft. I'm happy with osx, ta :p | 19:30 |
| jacobw | but.. you missed out on the fun :o | 19:31 |
| dwatkins | I've been battling with USB on Ubuntu, OS X has no such issues. | 19:31 |
| jacobw | because when one operating systems has a problem, all others should have the same problem :) | 19:32 |
| dwatkins | I meant storage problems in general. | 19:32 |
| dwatkins | I've spent a lot of time installing Ubuntu over the years, whereas OS X just works. I accept that there's a commercial organisation behind OS X and Ubuntu is entirely volunteer-based, I'm just stating what I've observed. | 19:34 |
| shauno | I still can't believe how long this thing gets on battery. I still use linux for most tasks you throw a dedicated machine/vm at, but I do think osx is pretty unbeatable on laptops | 19:34 |
| * brobostigon haz chinese curry, yummy, :) | 19:34 | |
| shauno | even if it is soley because they're only supporting 2 and a half models of laptop | 19:35 |
| jacobw | depends how computational your tasks are i guess | 19:36 |
| shauno | either way, I still need to find a new mouse for cannon fodder. absolutely zero point in getting dosbox going otherwise | 19:38 |
| popey | right, just upgraded an intel box to natty and I can confirm that even on a box that has no apps open whatsoever, with empty ram, dual core 2GHZ cpu, unity is still slow | 19:43 |
| dwatkins | What kind of graphics card, popey? | 19:44 |
| popey | http://paste.ubuntu.com/598854/ | 19:45 |
| popey | 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03) | 19:45 |
| popey | so the argument that it's my nvidia card at fault holds zero sway with me | 19:45 |
| brobostigon | popey: with said gpu, could you check to see if you get the same gpu hang/lockup i get, i seems comon across several differnt intel gpu's. please. | 19:46 |
| dwatkins | I'm just wondering if it's powerful enough. | 19:46 |
| popey | 10:44 < gord> 945's *should* work with unity fine, but i haven't booted up my 945 in a long time, the power adapter died - which i took as a strong hint that i should buy a new toy instead | 19:48 |
| popey | I officially own zero machines capable of running unity | 19:48 |
| popey | I have a dual core 8GB desktop, a dual core 4GB laptop, a dual core 8GB macbook pro. | 19:48 |
| dwatkins | I wonder if my MBP would run it. | 19:48 |
| popey | unity is bad on all of them | 19:48 |
| popey | the ssd in the laptop makes it nice and quick to start up tho | 19:49 |
| popey | brobostigon: what triggers it? | 19:51 |
| brobostigon | popey: that is up for debate, let me link you up. | 19:52 |
| popey | i mean, can you reproduce it easily? | 19:52 |
| brobostigon | popey: me, yes, use flash, andkill it abruptly. | 19:53 |
| popey | ali1234: recall your bug about there being a delay clicking between windows on unity? I just tried on intel and it doesnt happen, so looks very much like an nvidia issue | 19:53 |
| brobostigon | 715096 | 19:53 |
| popey | bug 715096 | 19:53 |
| lubotu3 | Launchpad bug 715096 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i945gm] GPU lockup (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/715096 | 19:53 |
| ali1234 | popey: of course :) | 19:53 |
| popey | brobostigon: have you tried the ppa on that bug? | 19:55 |
| brobostigon | popey: yes, no lockup/hang yet in two days, of normal use, with standerd natty kernel. | 19:56 |
| popey | https://launchpad.net/~bryce/+archive/fig using that? | 19:56 |
| brobostigon | yes. | 19:56 |
| popey | I'd leave a comment saying that then :) | 19:56 |
| brobostigon | popey: i am not sure yet, i am going to do more testing, about things i think cause said issue. | 19:57 |
| popey | well we're only a few days from release | 19:57 |
| brobostigon | true, yes. | 19:57 |
| brobostigon | i want to be sure though. | 19:57 |
| popey | worth saying at least that youve gone a couple of days with no crashes | 19:57 |
| brobostigon | yes, | 19:57 |
| brobostigon | popey: i originally thought it was an issue with kms, and drm inside it. | 19:59 |
| daubers | Evening | 20:15 |
| brobostigon | good evening daubers | 20:15 |
| * daubers may need a trip to maplin next weekend | 20:19 | |
| daubers | need moar aluminium cases | 20:19 |
| gord | popey, brobostigon - if compiz is slow to switch windows and your using firefox. its a firefox bug | 20:22 |
| gord | basically - the new acceleration it does kills opengl performance | 20:23 |
| gord | i disabled firefox 4 acceleration in about:config | 20:23 |
| ali1234 | gord: it's not firefox, it's *any* program that uses 3d | 20:23 |
| popey | firefox 4 is not open | 20:23 |
| ali1234 | gord: for example, glxgears with a 100x100 window and locked to vsync so it only does 60fps | 20:24 |
| gord | there may be other bugs, all i am talking about is a specific case of firefox | 20:24 |
| brobostigon | gord: and i dont use unity nor compiz, | 20:24 |
| ali1234 | gord: does turning off acceleration make launchpad render faster? | 20:24 |
| brobostigon | idont use FF either. | 20:24 |
| gord | ali1234, i have no ideaw | 20:25 |
| ali1234 | i know that is related to acceleration and nvidia bugs | 20:25 |
| ali1234 | whats the about:config option? | 20:25 |
| ali1234 | layers.acceleration.disabled? | 20:26 |
| gord | i'm not sure | 20:26 |
| ali1234 | lol how did you change it? | 20:26 |
| gord | i changed a setting? i don't memorise settings and it was months ago | 20:27 |
| ali1234 | hmm seems much faster now | 20:29 |
| ali1234 | it's funny | 20:29 |
| ali1234 | that the only driver that they whitelisted actually is so buggy that firefox runs faster when you disable accel | 20:29 |
| AlanBell | what is this a screenshot of? http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/bootsplash.png | 20:37 |
| gord | someone booting natty in a vm? i mean it says right there | 20:38 |
| AlanBell | yeah, I know that bit! | 20:38 |
| AlanBell | that stage of the boot process | 20:38 |
| AlanBell | it isn't ubiquity, the plymouth people say it isn't them | 20:38 |
| AlanBell | it isn't grub | 20:38 |
| AlanBell | I am thinking isolinux is doing it, but not sure | 20:39 |
| gord | no idea, maybe ask -desktop | 20:39 |
| AlanBell | I did | 20:39 |
| gord | ah dang, i spent £0.99 on a phone application, quick, trigger the anti-fraud devices and cancel all my amazon orders! ... stupid bank | 20:40 |
| stgraber | AlanBell: gfxboot | 20:40 |
| stgraber | AlanBell: gfxboot is the bit that's rendering the graphical menu on the CD/DVD, it's loaded by isolinux | 20:41 |
| AlanBell | thanks stgraber | 20:41 |
| AlanBell | it needs to go beep | 20:42 |
| AlanBell | bug 732320 | 20:42 |
| lubotu3 | Launchpad bug 732320 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "no audio clues on how to get into the accessible install with screen reader" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/732320 | 20:42 |
| brobostigon | bugjam daybug, :) | 20:43 |
| AlanBell | actually a bug I have been filing every release for the last three releases | 20:43 |
| brobostigon | :( | 20:43 |
| gord | bugs are only useful if someone is maintaining | 20:44 |
| AlanBell | and if they are against the right package | 20:45 |
| ali1234 | true dat | 20:45 |
| AlanBell | I had been reporting them against casper as someone told me that is where liveCD bugs go | 20:45 |
| gord | really the kind of thing you need to grab a person about really, maybe a uds thing | 20:45 |
| AlanBell | great, not going. | 20:45 |
| gord | or maybe the accessibility team | 20:46 |
| AlanBell | heh | 20:46 |
| gord | or of course the alternative, get in there and fix it yourself | 20:47 |
| AlanBell | that I am happy to do | 20:47 |
| AlanBell | just need someone to point me in the right direction | 20:47 |
| gord | time to put your columbo hat on, and start asking questions ;) mailing lists are prolly the most useful | 20:48 |
| ali1234 | columbo raincoat you mean? | 20:48 |
| * AlanBell does apt-get source gfxboot | 20:49 | |
| AlanBell | ok, so on the cd the image I am interested in is in /isolinux/access.pcx | 20:54 |
| ali1234 | pcx? seriously? | 20:55 |
| ali1234 | i haven't seen a pcx file in years | 20:56 |
| AlanBell | yes | 20:56 |
| AlanBell | and I did apt-get source syslinux and apt-get source gfxboot and it isn't in either of them | 20:56 |
| ali1234 | well it could be generated still | 20:56 |
| AlanBell | grep -rn access.pcx * returns nothing | 20:57 |
| ali1234 | try the plymouth-theme-* packages? | 20:57 |
| AlanBell | find |grep access returns nothing interesting | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | http://askubuntu.com/questions/10258/how-to-change-live-cd-splash-screen | 20:58 |
| AlanBell | yup, that is certainly the file | 20:59 |
| shauno | watching dr who confidential; they actually built a set for the oval office? I kinda assumed that'd be 'stock' enough that the beeb would have one ... laying around | 21:04 |
| AlanBell | so if I boot from a live CD is there a command to find out what package owns /isolinux/access.pcx | 21:06 |
| brobostigon | shauno: they do have one of no'10 lieing around. | 21:08 |
| shauno | well you'd think so, wouldn't you. seems silly having every show build their own | 21:09 |
| brobostigon | yes | 21:12 |
| AlanBell | bug 546922 is another one | 21:12 |
| lubotu3 | Launchpad bug 546922 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "[lucid] Some suggestions with new gfxboot artwork" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/546922 | 21:12 |
| hamitron | won't there be a poor turn-up to the meeting, with everyone calling in at the pub on the way back from voting? | 23:04 |
| mgdm | I knew I was missing a channel... | 23:21 |
| hamitron | the important one too!!! :-o | 23:22 |
| * bigcalm feels unloved | 23:24 | |
| * hamitron fluffles bigcalm | 23:25 | |
| hamitron | brb, phone | 23:30 |
| brobostigon | good night eveyone, sleep well. | 23:30 |
| tugrik | hi - does anyone have a /etc/logrotate.d/pacct file? | 23:39 |
| hamitron | tugrik: no | 23:55 |
| BigRedS | hamitron: I'm sure *someone* does :) | 23:58 |
| hamitron | yeh | 23:58 |
| hamitron | just letting him know someone saw him I guess | 23:58 |
| hamitron | :) | 23:58 |
| hamitron | suppose it was one of my usual unhelpful replies :/ | 23:59 |
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