[00:00] <popey> heh
[00:00] <exobuzz> get some famous names in there too, like 4-mat etc
[00:00] <exobuzz> and ziphoid (he was the radio guy on the video stream)
[00:01] <exobuzz> (famous on the demoscene ;-) )
[00:02] <popey> well, I'm glad I compiled that demo :)
[00:03] <exobuzz> i guess ill have to wait until i have better working 3d heh
[00:04] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/gord_cvis_demo.ogv
[00:04] <popey> looks a lot smoother in real life
[00:04] <exobuzz> thanks!
[00:04] <exobuzz> wow. trippy!
[00:05] <exobuzz> gord, are you related to jeff minter? :)
[00:05] <popey> haha
[00:06] <gord> its the hair ;)
[00:10] <exobuzz> heh, aah so you look like him too ? ;-) nice demo effect - i can see you made sure you used all possible colours in the visible spectrum
[00:12] <gord> its actually grayscale, then i use a shader to map it to a randomly chosen row from data/images/grad.png
[00:12] <gord> all the gl shaders are in data/shader_src if anyone has any interested in how those work
[00:12]  * exobuzz never looked at shader code. scared to ;-)
[00:14] <Azelphur> went to paintball today for my birthday, got shot in the chest and stained my shirt, went to get KFC later and the cashier thought I was drunk and had vomited on myself \o/
[00:14] <popey> haha
[00:14] <exobuzz> lol
[00:15] <exobuzz> happy birthday too!
[00:15] <Azelphur> ty :P
[00:15] <exobuzz> did they still serve you their filthy yet tasty chicken ?
[00:15] <Azelphur> yea, I said I got shot
[00:15] <Azelphur> she gave me even more strange looks :(
[00:16] <exobuzz> normally people are sick on themselves after visiting kfc not before ;-)
[00:16] <Azelphur> haha
[00:17] <Azelphur> It was pretty funny at paint ball too, they all made me wear a fluorescent vest to ensure I got shot at a lot :D
[00:17] <popey> :)
[00:17] <Azelphur> only I think it backfired because I only got shot once, I reckon everyone thought I was a marshal or something.
[00:17] <exobuzz> Azelphur, bruised ?
[00:17] <exobuzz> aah ok. single shot to the chest eh
[00:17] <gord> maybe you are just that good?
[00:17] <Azelphur> gord that's what I said :D
[00:18] <Azelphur> I did get quite a few headshots, It's good fun getting people right in the visor so they can't see >:3
[00:18]  * gord is visualising mike from spaced good
[00:18] <exobuzz> http://www.inventgeek.com/Projects/paintball-turret/Overview.aspx
[00:19] <Azelphur> exobuzz: haha yea, the chest shot didn't even leave a mark, I got a small mark on my shoulder, and I probably have a big bruise on my back from where my cousin shot me (in the back, while he was on my team xD), lol
[00:19] <exobuzz> Azelphur, hehe
[00:19] <popey> oops, still had gords demo running on another desktop :)
[00:19] <popey> only 10% cpu tho
[00:19] <Azelphur> exobuzz: someone in our party got paint in the eyes though
[00:19] <exobuzz> popey, im sure you got a few copies of minecraft going too ;-)
[00:20] <popey> heh, not on this box
[00:20] <Azelphur> got shot in the air holes for the mask and the paint went through and all over his eyes/mouth
[00:20] <popey> oh, yes I do :)
[00:20] <exobuzz> lol
[00:20] <gord> its damn efficient :) low powered hardware keeps you honest
[00:20] <Azelphur> exobuzz: and my cousin is bruised to hell, he ran out in the open and started doing the chicken dance. xD
[00:20]  * exobuzz swaps gord's pc for a spectrum
[00:20] <exobuzz> there you go
[00:20] <exobuzz> Azelphur, sounds like a fun day!
[00:20] <Azelphur> indeed \o/
[00:21] <gord> unity - 128k edition
[00:23] <exobuzz> <3 8 bit
[00:23] <exobuzz> old pic with my babies http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/File:BIT_2002_027_25.jpg
[00:25] <Azelphur> exobuzz: reminds me of when I was about 8, my mum said "Most kids your age have a teddy bear, you have a gameboy and a pack of cookies"
[00:26] <exobuzz> sounds like you got things right ;-)
[00:26] <exobuzz> gameboy > teddy bear
[00:26] <Azelphur> indeed.
[00:40] <Seeker`> hai
[00:47] <hamitron> bah
[00:47]  * hamitron grumbles
[00:48] <Seeker`> hmm?
[00:49] <hamitron> bored with all the music I queue up
[00:51] <hamitron> tbh, just bored
[00:51] <matti> ;]
[02:10] <Seeker`> anyone know someone by the name of "James Harrison"?
[04:40] <ali1234> i figured out how to reproduce the firefox focus bug
[04:50] <ali1234> i also found that minecraft runs about 50% slower on natty
[04:50] <ali1234> oops i mean 50% faster
[04:51] <ali1234> oops i mean 100% faster :/
[09:02] <jibadeeha> i sometimes wonder if having the hard drive power down when idle puts wear and tear and it is perhaps best to leave it switched on all the time
[09:03] <popey> morning
[09:04] <popey> jibadeeha: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Minimizing_Hard_Disk_Drive_Failure_and_Data_Loss is probably worth reading
[09:04] <jibadeeha> thanks popey  ... will check that out
[09:30] <dwatkins> hi folks, and happy bank holiday
[09:31] <popey> :)
[09:37] <daubers> Morning
[09:41] <alex__> :)
[10:43] <Pendulum> morning
[10:54] <dwatkins> hiya Pendulum et al
[11:10] <peejay1977> Hey morning all, anyone know of a bug in Ubuntu 11.04 Beta 2 that causes Vuze to crash when searching? I've done a preliminary Google and found nothing...
[11:11]  * dwatkins discovers a webcam on Abbey Road and watches tourists being silly on the pedestrian crossing
[11:15] <tugrik> URL dwatkins ?
[11:15] <dwatkins> http://www.abbeyroad.com/visit/ tugrik
[11:16] <tugrik> yeah, sorry, took me google and five seconds....
[11:16] <dwatkins> no worries, I might possibly have been referring to a different webcam on Abbey Road ;)
[11:16] <dwatkins> is anyone near by who can confirm it's live?
[11:53] <jonsaint> hi all. can anyone help me with firestarter
[12:05]  * AlanBell waits for jonsaint to ask a question
[12:05] <brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
[12:06] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[12:06] <brobostigon> good afternoon MartijnVdS :)
[12:06] <jonsaint> sorry alan. didnt see your message then
[12:07] <jonsaint> what it is it keeps going red and when i check what it is, the protocol is a tcp (what ever that is
[12:07] <jonsaint> only been having the problem since i moved house a week ago
[12:09] <popey> any of you lot do bitcoin mining?
[12:12] <MartijnVdS> is that something in minecraft?
[12:14] <brobostigon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin ?
[12:14] <jonsaint> AlanBell, sent you a message alan on here
[12:15] <fujisano> Hello, i am having sound issues in 10.10 when i play a video there is no sound
[12:15] <fujisano> any idea what the issue might be?
[12:15] <MartijnVdS> your speakers could be off
[12:15] <fujisano> i have no idea where to even start troubleshooting
[12:15] <MartijnVdS> or not plugged in
[12:15] <fujisano> i hear system sounds
[12:15] <MartijnVdS> or the volume could be muted
[12:15] <MartijnVdS> or set to 0
[12:15] <MartijnVdS> which player are you using
[12:16] <fujisano> now it works again
[12:16] <fujisano> i dont get it
[12:16] <fujisano> the default one and vlc
[12:17] <ali1234> popey: i ran the generator for about 3 months, got no result
[12:21] <fujisano> and the sound has gone again
[12:21] <fujisano> i dont get it :(
[12:22] <MartijnVdS> fujisano: is it only specific videos or programs?
[12:22] <fujisano> videos  i think
[12:23] <fujisano> avi videos
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> with what kind of audio? which player are you using?
[12:23] <fujisano> vlc and the default player in ubuntu
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> vlc should work
[12:24] <AlanBell> jonsaint: is it stopping you from doing something?
[12:24] <AlanBell> jonsaint: tcp is the standard internet protocol really, the port number would be interesting perhaps
[12:25] <fujisano> martijnVdS ye should but vlc and the default player both stop playing audio after a few minutes so i am guessing it's an ubuntu specific issue
[12:25] <jonsaint> ports start at 38299 and go up
[12:25] <MartijnVdS> fujisano: ah, you didn't say that symptom before
[12:26] <shauno> fujisano: is this on a mac by chance?
[12:27] <shauno> if it is, check to see if it's just muted.  for some odd reason, the newer ones keep muting themselves
[12:27] <AlanBell> jonsaint: could be anything then
[12:27] <AlanBell> jonsaint: running skype?
[12:27] <jonsaint> no. dont use skype
[12:28] <fujisano> shauno no the pc :<
[12:28] <fujisano> my bedroom pc
[12:28] <shauno> ah ok
[12:28] <fujisano> i have no sound issues with spotify it's only with avi's
[12:29] <fujisano> weird
[12:33] <fujisano> any ideas how to tackle this issue?
[12:33] <fujisano> im googling but getting nowhere...
[12:36] <fujisano> ok i give up :<
[12:37]  * brobostigon read back, to see if he canhelp.
[12:38] <fujisano> i believe the gods are trying to prevent me from gorging myself with documentaries
[12:38] <brobostigon> fujisano: have a look in vlc, and see if its outputting to pulseaudio or alsa, ?
[12:39] <fujisano> ok thanks
[12:39] <fujisano> it's outputting on default
[12:39] <brobostigon> pulseaudio can kill it self, if it is using massive resources.
[12:39] <brobostigon> default couldbe either, what other ooptions is it giving you?
[12:40] <fujisano> no clue what the default is :
[12:40] <fujisano> ;/
[12:40] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: default is pulse if pulse is running
[12:40] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, hmm.
[12:40] <MartijnVdS> ♥ pulse
[12:40] <fujisano> how can i check this btw?
[12:40] <brobostigon> fujisano: is thepulseaudio server using alot of resources when you try and playsound through it,
[12:41] <fujisano> ok in system monitor i am seeing a process for pulseaudio
[12:41] <MartijnVdS> ooh, like the "burning CD" indicator
[12:41] <MartijnVdS> fujisano: but is it eating lots of CPU when playing sound (as in, 70-80% or more)
[12:42] <fujisano> 2 %
[12:42] <brobostigon> fujisano: when you try and play sound via pulseaudio what kind of resources does that process use up?
[12:42] <popey> ali1234: yeah, I haven't found a single one yet. been using the gpu to do the mining
[12:42] <fujisano> pulseaudio is currently sleeping
[12:42] <brobostigon> fujisano: try and play some sound through it, and see whatresources it uses up.
[12:43] <fujisano> how do i set the default output to pulse?
[12:43] <MartijnVdS> fujisano: the default IS pulse, as long as pulseaudio is running
[12:44] <fujisano> it's running but apparently sleeping
[12:44] <brobostigon> fujisano: you can check in vlc's preferences,under audio, and output modules.
[12:44] <fujisano> brobostigon:  i did and it said default
[12:45] <brobostigon> fujisano: pulseaudio it is then, as MartijnVdS said.
[12:45] <fujisano> ok done
[12:45] <brobostigon> fujisano: play something with some sound in vlc, and see what resources the pulseaudio server uses up.
[12:46] <fujisano> i think i need a new pc for ubuntu this one is so old
[12:46] <fujisano> 3%
[12:46] <popey> ali1234: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FThX1cDg-tg  *boggle*
[12:47] <brobostigon> fujisano: that is with vlcplaying music or something, how much cpu? and ram?
[12:47] <fujisano> i think it's working better now thanks brobostigon and martijn
[12:47] <fujisano> vlc 11%
[12:47] <kingofswords> hi can any1 recommend a good download manager for ubuntu...like jloader?
[12:47] <brobostigon> fujisano: keep an eye on the pulseaudio servers resouces, it can be a masisve hog sometimes.
[12:48] <fujisano> ok ty i will keep that in mind :)
[12:48] <brobostigon> fujisano: because, when it cant get anymore resourcs to run. and canjust fail, all onits own.
[12:49] <fujisano> ok i see
[12:50] <brobostigon> fujisano: you might want to try and change vlc'soutput module to alsa, and see what happens.
[12:54] <popey> kingofswords: gwget, kget, tucan manager, fatrat, uget...
[12:55] <kingofswords> hi popey...are they better than jloader...and are they java based?
[12:55] <popey> kingofswords: i have never used any of them (or jloader) I dont use download managers
[12:56] <kingofswords> ok ill take a look
[12:56] <kingofswords> thx
[12:56] <AlanBell> I don't get why people on broadband use download managers
[12:56] <AlanBell> just seem like something from the modem days to me
[12:57] <popey> i do
[12:57] <popey> if you want to download a gazillion files
[12:57] <ali1234> popey: last time i checked it costs about £20 to run a PC for a year, 1 bitcoin = 1 dollar
[12:57] <popey> or download files from multiple hosts
[12:57] <ali1234> in other words mining bitcoins costs you money
[12:57] <popey> ali1234: yeah, and that guy must be running up quite a leccy bill
[12:57] <popey> plus he bought a load of new kit to do it
[12:57] <ali1234> if you want them, just buy them on the exchange
[12:58] <popey> yeah
[12:58] <ali1234> for that rig he could have bought several hundred
[12:58] <kingofswords> whats a bitcoin?
[12:58] <ali1234> lolcash
[12:58] <ali1234> that's what they should have called it
[12:58] <AlanBell> a cryptographic ecash scheme
[12:58] <popey> :)
[12:58] <ali1234> space bux
[12:59] <popey> OMGDollars
[12:59] <ali1234> except that space bux are probably worth more
[13:11] <ali1234> seriously you'd make more money by becoming a gold farmer
[13:18] <jibadeeha> ls
[13:19] <jibadeeha> whoops wrong window
[13:36] <gord> cd secretplansforworlddomination
[13:36] <gord> oops, wrong window
[13:37] <BigRedS> /etc/init.d/robot-uprising start
[13:40] <ali1234> awesome, writing to a USB drive now freezes the whole computer for the duration of the write operation
[13:41] <shauno> it's a shame skynet was using amazon.  really ruined the whole thing
[13:42] <directhex> ali1234, linux IO sucks
[13:42] <ali1234> this is a regression
[13:43] <ali1234> i have never seen dd make the mouse pointer stop moving before
[13:43] <ali1234> well not recently anyway
[14:06] <ali1234> bug 770258
[14:08] <dwatkins> I'm amazed my Macbook is still backing up ok via USB.
[14:09] <dwatkins> i.e. the server's disk is attached via USB and I'm backing up to the server which runs Ubuntu 10.10
[14:10] <exobuzz> ali1234, got SCHED_AUTOGROUP enabled in kernel ?
[14:10] <ali1234> i dunno
[14:10] <ali1234> i'm using natty
[14:10] <exobuzz> check in /boot/config*
[14:10] <ali1234> CONFIG_SCHED_AUTOGROUP=y
[14:11] <exobuzz> worth building with that for better io/cpu sharing etc. can help when writing large amounts to slow usb devices etc
[14:11] <exobuzz> k
[14:11] <ali1234> it's the 200 line patch right?
[14:11] <exobuzz> yeh
[14:11] <ali1234> well it seems to me that it has made it significantly worse
[14:11] <exobuzz> i guess disabling it would be worth a try then
[14:11] <ali1234> i never had this problem on older kernels
[14:12] <ali1234> i had similar but no where near as bad problems
[14:12] <exobuzz> would be interested if things are better without it - you might have found a specific problem
[14:12] <ali1234> but mainly due to swap being really slow
[14:12] <ali1234> i think there is something wrong with my motherboard actually
[14:12] <ali1234> eg i get page fault latency of 1.3 seconds
[14:12] <exobuzz> echo "0" >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness ?
[14:12] <popey> just seen someone in another channel say their mint system locks up when it writes to swap
[14:13] <popey> :S
[14:13] <ali1234> so any time i hit swap the computer locks for half an hour, even if i only used a few hundred mb
[14:13] <ali1234> oh good, it's not just me then
[14:13] <ali1234> ask em what motherboard they've got
[14:13] <popey> will do
[14:13] <ali1234> anyway, i've not seen this problem on USB drives before, only swap
[14:13] <exobuzz> ali1234, telling the machine to avoid swap might help as above
[14:13] <ali1234> i tried swappiness = 0
[14:14] <ali1234> it doesn't make much difference
[14:14] <ali1234> i have 4GB
[14:14] <popey> Gigabyte P55-UD3
[14:14] <ali1234> to only time i use swap is when i really need to use swap
[14:14] <popey> ^ ali1234
[14:14] <exobuzz> also try mem compaction / page merging / transparent huge page support etc things that affect stuff like that and see if they make a difference
[14:15] <ali1234> popey: ok that's nothing like mine, not even same cpu
[14:15] <ali1234> so i conclude that linux has finally jumped the shark
[14:15] <popey> heh
[14:15] <exobuzz> worth building 2.6.39 in case it was a glitch they have fixed
[14:16] <ali1234> exobuzz: i shouldn't have to fiddle with that stuff, this is supposed to be linux for human beings
[14:16] <exobuzz> (rc4+)
[14:16] <popey> +2
[14:16] <exobuzz> ali1234, yeh but im speaking about locating the issue, as there is obviously a problem
[14:16] <exobuzz> if we can narrow it down or find something that stops it, then you have a point to start from
[14:16] <ali1234> it's been a problem since... well since intrepid basically
[14:17] <ali1234> nobody seems to have the problem but me
[14:17] <popey> I'm finding Unity 2d very usable.
[14:17] <ali1234> or maybe nobody else ever even uses swap
[14:17] <exobuzz> i spent 6 months debugging a usb issue on a hosted machine. finally found a commit frmo 2.6.27 that broke the usb .. was a pain but now i know how to fix it, and hopefully can get it sorted in future kernels
[14:18] <ali1234> i suspect the latter
[14:18] <dwatkins> what's needed to fix it, exobuzz?
[14:18] <exobuzz> popey, i still dont get the "big icons" - on 800x600 they actuall are too big and dont fit in the screen, it should surely use screensize to work out how it should do it
[14:18] <AlanBell> what hardware do people have that won't do openGL at all?
[14:18] <exobuzz> dwatkins, https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32432
[14:18] <ali1234> AlanBell: do you count opengl es?
[14:19] <AlanBell> counting stuff that won't do Unity 3d
[14:19] <ali1234> plenty of stuff won't run unity
[14:19] <popey> my desktop is well capable of unity 3d, but unity 3d is painfully slow
[14:19] <dwatkins> thanks exobuzz
[14:19] <popey> so i have been trying unity 2d
[14:19] <popey> and it's quite skippy
[14:19] <popey> as in fast
[14:20] <exobuzz> dwatkins, there is another alternative patch from usb dev i need to try on the kernel usb mailinglist but for now since it is a production machine, just having it work is good enough
[14:20] <AlanBell> I am surprised
[14:20] <exobuzz> popey, here's one, how can i enable compiz + unity 2d
[14:20] <popey> surprised at what?
[14:20] <exobuzz> popey, if you choose unity 2d from natty, it disables compiz. do you have a fix ?
[14:20] <AlanBell> that 2d is faster than 3d
[14:20] <popey> i dont want compiz
[14:20] <popey> compiz is slow
[14:20] <BigRedS> AlanBell: really?
[14:20] <exobuzz> popey, i do ;-) hehe
[14:20] <ali1234> 2d is always faster than 3d
[14:20] <popey> I hope you're happy together
[14:20] <popey> :)
[14:20] <dwatkins> exobuzz: I suspect my problems are related to an external USB disk enclosure and the disk idling, but it's interesting to see that bug nonetheless
[14:21] <ali1234> don;t listen to anyone who tells you GPUs are all that
[14:21] <ali1234> i;ve done experiments with openCL and a entry level GPU is slower than the CPU even for massively parallel tasks that should be optimal for it
[14:21] <popey> alt-tab in unity2d is near-instant, much like my crappy old xp machine at work
[14:21] <popey> alt-tab in unity3d is painful
[14:21] <exobuzz> dwatkins, with this change/revert, my usb device is stable with no disconnects. without it, its flakey. i suspect the chipset might be out of spec, or the kernel was trying to be "too quick". of course. manufacturers often only test with windows im suer
[14:21] <AlanBell> I have always found 3d to be a lot quicker than 2d for doing things like moving windows about
[14:22] <directhex> opencl has some VERY specific issues
[14:22] <directhex> treating a GPU as a CPU is doomed to failure
[14:22] <popey> I am using nvidia though, which makes me a) an idiot and b) evil and c) not worth considering
[14:22] <popey> Note: There may be small amounts of sarcasm
[14:22] <ali1234> it's lucky then that opencl does not treat it as a cpu!
[14:22] <exobuzz> popey, amd ?
[14:22] <popey> intel c2d
[14:23] <exobuzz> i have intel gfx
[14:23] <directhex> the killer is the time taken to move data to the GPU, and take data back from it.
[14:23] <ali1234> yes, agreed
[14:23] <AlanBell> hmm, alt+tab is instant for me
[14:23] <directhex> although clearly if you're using a GPU which has cores measures in dozens, not hundreds -> thousands, then it's not going to set the world on fire
[14:23] <directhex> plus those gpus have slow memory access
[14:23] <exobuzz> directhex, my gpu is on the same silicon as the cpu
[14:23] <exobuzz> sandy bridge
[14:23] <directhex> exobuzz, yeah, but intel graphics struggles to go beyond the dozen polygon mark
[14:23] <ali1234> well all i know is that for large array addition, 1 core of my phenom 2 beats my gt240
[14:24] <directhex> intel graphics more or less draws a desktop
[14:24] <exobuzz> directhex, sandy bridge isnt actually that bad, although the bleeding edge git stuff for it sometimes doesnt work :) glxgears didnt work yesterday heh
[14:24] <directhex> exobuzz, yes, yes it is that bad.
[14:24] <ali1234> it's a pity that nvidia can't write drivers that actually work
[14:24] <directhex> a 6-year-old low-end geforce will still outperform it
[14:25] <exobuzz> directhex, http://www.notebookcheck.net/typo3temp/pics/1166b97581.gif
[14:25] <ali1234> as it is, intel cards beat nvidia in some situations
[14:25] <ali1234> where some situations = anything but FPS games
[14:25] <ali1234> i want to see someone do a benchmark based on "time taken to render a launchpad bug page in firefox"
[14:25] <directhex> or sports or strategy or rpg
[14:26] <exobuzz> directhex, http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Intel-HD-Graphics-3000-graphics-solution.43710.0.html
[14:26] <exobuzz> directhex, actually it's quicker than you think then
[14:26] <ali1234> time taken on nvidia gt240 = 10 seconds
[14:26] <ali1234> time taken on intel pineview = too short to measure
[14:27] <Tommeh> 'Nvidia' is not the fairest term on many occasions, however.
[14:27] <directhex> "it competes at a level of entry-level graphics cards like the Geforce G 310M, the GT 220M or the ATI HD5470"
[14:28] <Tommeh> Given that the 'free' drivers are buggy in certain cases (particularly in 3D)
[14:28] <exobuzz> yes, but you said a 6 year old low end card will outperform it, which isnt true
[14:28] <ali1234> lol
[14:28] <ali1234> 6 year old low end nvidia card is what, a 440 mx?
[14:29] <directhex> your timescale is out slightly
[14:29] <AlanBell> so what won't run unity?
[14:29] <directhex> 6600gt, or thereabouts
[14:29] <ali1234> directhex: 6600 is not low end
[14:29] <exobuzz> it wasnt low end back then
[14:29] <exobuzz> yeh
[14:29] <ali1234> directhex: 6600 is the point where spending any more money make you an idiot
[14:29] <exobuzz> and a x700 from around 6 yerrs ago is not as quick as it too
[14:30] <directhex> a gf4 mx is closer to 9 years old
[14:30] <directhex> and was rebadged gf2 silicon anyway
[14:30] <exobuzz> im not arguing my gpu is better than a £100 nvidia card, but its quite ok for built in graphics
[14:30] <exobuzz> and the video decoding acceleration is very decent
[14:31] <directhex> wake me when i can play minecraft on my laptop's i5
[14:31] <ali1234> i would imagine that will happen some time after notch learns how to code
[14:31] <mfraz74> i'm using intel video and with 10.10 the startup splash screen was fine, but now with 11.04 it is plain ascii although the shutdown screen is fine
[14:33] <AlanBell> I thought the on motherboard intel graphics were supposed to be rubbish and anyone serious would have an nvidia or AMD graphics card
[14:33] <popey> thats the theory for 3d gaming, yes
[14:33] <ali1234> onboard intel is plenty to run unity
[14:33] <ali1234> in fact unity runs a lot better on intel than on nvidia
[14:33] <popey> +1
[14:33] <exobuzz> AlanBell, compiz etc is very quick here. much better than on my x700 ati from my last machine (6 year old card)
[14:33] <ali1234> due to it not being a FPS game
[14:34] <directhex> or rpg, or strategy, or sport, or peggle
[14:34] <ali1234> rubbish
[14:34] <ali1234> we all know that nvidia optimize only for the most popular game
[14:34] <exobuzz> brb. restarting x
[14:35] <ali1234> interestingly the new nvidia driver is about twice as fast when running minecraft
[14:35] <ali1234> but everything else is slower
[14:35] <AlanBell> so how old does an nvidea/amd card have to be to not run unity?
[14:35] <directhex> intel's built-in graphics for pre-sandy-bridge i5 (4000-series? whatevs) chokes on civilization 5. or 4, for that matter.
[14:35] <AlanBell> I know S3 openchrome won't
[14:35] <directhex> 2 is fine
[14:35] <AlanBell> and the intel from pre 2004ish might be a problem now
[14:36] <AlanBell> but I am going to retest my Dell from 2002 later, see if that works again
[14:36] <ali1234> you won't have a problem with: nvidia, intel
[14:36] <AlanBell> it did compiz on Hardy, then the drivers changed and it stopped
[14:36] <directhex> not looking forward to 11.04 :/
[14:36] <ali1234> you will have problems with everything else
[14:37] <ali1234> ati will claim tosupport 3d and then not work properly, because it never does
[14:37] <ali1234> powervr based tech would work, if you can find a driver
[14:37] <directhex> fglrx has improved rapidly over the years
[14:37] <directhex> it actually boots and is stable, which is a big change
[14:37] <exobuzz> ati dropped support for my card benig too old before their drivers even worked properly heh
[14:37] <exobuzz> being
[14:37] <ali1234> everything else doesn't do 3d
[14:38] <exobuzz> o2 joggler can do "1080p h264" decoding in hardware with little cpu usage.. shame its res is only 800x480 :)
[14:38] <exobuzz> (pwoervr)
[14:38] <exobuzz> powervr even
[14:38] <AlanBell> does that do compiz?
[14:38] <exobuzz> yeh
[14:39] <directhex> gma500?
[14:39] <AlanBell> directhex: good one
[14:40] <exobuzz> directhex, same gfx chipset but i think it is us15w or whatever or called something different in the joggler
[14:40] <ali1234> not quite, it's EMGD
[14:40] <ali1234> same powervr core, yeah
[14:40] <ali1234> and so same issues with drivers
[14:41] <exobuzz> only emgd supports a "modern" xorg so i use emgd 1.5.2 with xorg 1.9
[14:41] <exobuzz> and an older libva
[14:41] <exobuzz> gpu is "Intel SCH US15W"
[14:42] <exobuzz> http://ark.intel.com/product.aspx?id=35444
[14:43] <exobuzz> now that I have brought up the joggler, i can mention i updated all the linux distribution images i provide yesterday http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/
[14:43] <exobuzz> :)
[14:47] <popey> ali1234: seen a third person mention lockup writing to swap now
[14:47] <ali1234> popey: where?
[14:47] <ali1234> and how come no one ever mentions it here?
[14:47] <popey> in #twil, he's gone afk for now
[14:47] <jibadeeha> can't wait for this ... http://www.retrogamescollector.com/sinclair-zx-spectrum-to-be-re-released-in-2012/
[14:47] <ali1234> hey, do you wanna do a test?
[14:47] <popey> sure
[14:47] <ali1234> do a "big" screenshot in minecraft
[14:47] <exobuzz> jibadeeha, whats wrong with an old spectrum ? :)
[14:47] <popey> define big
[14:47] <ali1234> then try to convert it to a png in imagemagick
[14:48] <ali1234> oh, the one you get when you press shift-f2 or whatever
[14:48] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, mine is broken as i once pulled out the interface ii while switched on
[14:48] <ali1234> the one that is 20 gigapixels
[14:48] <popey> didnt know you could do that
[14:48] <exobuzz> jibadeeha, woops.. they are still quite cheap though on ebay'
[14:48] <ali1234> anyway do one of those and then try to shrink it down with imagemagick
[14:48] <directhex> spectrum is too mainstream
[14:48] <directhex> get a dragon!
[14:49] <ali1234> this is guaranteed to use all your ram and a few gigs of swap
[14:49] <exobuzz> directhex, i have a dragon 32 ;-) got a dragon 64 ?
[14:49] <popey> ok, one mo
[14:49] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, tempting to buy an old one ... could i really go back to using a tape recorder
[14:49] <ali1234> now, on a decent OS, this process would be able to churn away in the background without impacting on foreground processes
[14:49] <ali1234> if you want, run it with ionice and nice
[14:49] <exobuzz> jibadeeha, compact flash / sd cart ?
[14:49] <jibadeeha> i always wanted a dragon or bbc
[14:49] <ali1234> when i run it, it locks up the computer until it finishes running
[14:50] <popey> alan@wopr:~/.minecraft/screenshots$ file 2011-04-25_14.49.56.png
[14:50] <popey> 2011-04-25_14.49.56.png: PNG image data, 1680 x 1026, 8-bit/color RGB, non-interlaced
[14:50] <popey> is that big?
[14:50] <ali1234> no
[14:50] <exobuzz> i made a "demo" on the dragon. loose use of the term, it was a spaceship and some circles in basic, and erm you played the music on the casette (it had casette audio passthrough which was cool). i was only young though
[14:50] <popey> how do you do it then?
[14:50] <ali1234> well apparently theyve removed it
[14:50] <popey> gimmie a big file?
[14:51] <popey> or should i try and scale one up?
[14:51] <ali1234> i can't they are 6 GB
[14:51] <popey> haha
[14:51] <ali1234> you can write 6GB of /dev/urandom to a file i guess
[14:52] <ali1234> and then try to process it
[14:52] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, i remember learning Z80 assembly language but wasn't very good at it and it was hard without an assembler .. how times have changed
[14:52] <exobuzz> jibadeeha, 3e 02 ;-)
[14:52] <exobuzz> ld a,02 i think.
[14:52] <exobuzz> thats all i remember.
[14:52] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, lol oh yeah those 8-bit registers
[14:52] <exobuzz> them were the days
[14:53] <exobuzz> <3 spectrum
[14:53] <exobuzz> i love it when this channels gets all 8 bit
[14:53] <exobuzz> much more interesting than all this ubuntu nonsense ;-)
[14:53] <jibadeeha> i had a SInclair QL before i finally bought a PC .. .loved that computer
[14:53] <exobuzz> i got 2 of them too. heh crappy microdrive tech
[14:53] <exobuzz> nice basic though
[14:54] <exobuzz> and fast.. 68008 cpu
[14:54] <jibadeeha> yeah excellent computer but let down by the twin microdrives
[14:54] <exobuzz> i lost all my code on microdrive cart. now i got a plus d but, im cross i never made tape backups
[14:55] <jibadeeha> they were rubbish but a god send when all you knew before was the tape recorder
[14:55] <exobuzz> yeh
[14:56] <exobuzz> http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/magazine/speccy/yspp2.jpg - second letter - last of my remaining speccy code
[14:56] <exobuzz> i was very chuffed when i got this in, was 15 then i think
[14:57] <exobuzz> they missed the last line of data statements though. probably just needed a 22 DATA 999 or something. oh well
[14:57] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, respect dude that is really cool
[14:58] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, i got one of my program listings printed in program pitstop but they published it by accident as it didn't correspond to the letter
[14:58] <exobuzz> program pitstop! you should dig that out
[14:58] <exobuzz> aah nice memories
[14:59] <exobuzz> i rememebr typing out a long tim follin tune in your sinclair program pitstop. 3 channel audio routine. very cool. but took a long time heh
[14:59] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, the letter and instructions were for a disassembler but the listing was my crappy basic program that renumbered lines .. imagine how many people must have been annoyed to see my listing
[14:59] <exobuzz> http://craigsretrocomputingpage.eu5.org/startip2/tune_disassembly_hexdump.html that one
[14:59] <exobuzz> jibadeeha, ouch, they really messed up. but nice to have your code in!
[15:00] <popey> ali1234: just ran a script to eat all ram
[15:00] <popey> as soon as it hit swap the mouse was very sluggish
[15:00] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/598739/
[15:00] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, yeah i remember cycling home as fast as i could to tell my mum and dad that they'd published my code lol
[15:00] <popey> went a bit nuts
[15:01] <exobuzz> jibadeeha, mplayer http://modstream.exotica.org.uk/modstream/?md5=ca095372ca71989fb3e12f829882eecc
[15:01] <exobuzz> classic speccy tune heh
[15:01] <ali1234> popey: turns out you can do it by scaling up in imagemagick
[15:01] <ali1234> popey: try convert any.png -format png -resize 10000x10000 out.png
[15:02] <ali1234> this will instantly use about 6 GB of ram
[15:02] <exobuzz> jibadeeha, i miss the feeling of getting the latest copy of your sinclair in the post. the excitement. i get retro gamer these days, but i guess it will never be quite the same
[15:02] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, pmsl i remember that tune - that is so funny
[15:02] <ali1234> computer will lock up (mouse won't even move, screen won't redraw)
[15:02] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, is retro gamer good .. i nearly bought that once
[15:02] <ali1234> only option is ctrl-alt-f1 (takes 5 minutes), login (takes another 5 minutes) and killall convert
[15:03] <ali1234> then when you switch back to X11 all your ssh connections will have timed out and firefox will pop up a hundred "script not responding" warnings
[15:03] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, i've got 1000s of sinclair games now for the emulator .. bought this CD full of them
[15:04] <exobuzz> speccy out run . wooot http://modstream.exotica.org.uk/modstream/?md5=eb76edd54a6aefb2730b0527911e8fd7
[15:04] <exobuzz> jibadeeha, "chaos" by julian gollop. played that ?
[15:04] <shauno> that convert command doesn't peg ram here.  pegs a core to itself, but settles out about 550Mb ram
[15:04] <exobuzz> old fave of mine.. great multiplayer
[15:04] <popey> ali1234: that finished without swapping :)
[15:04] <ali1234> shauno: add a few zeros until it does :)
[15:04] <popey> will make it 10x bigger
[15:04] <ali1234> i might have miscalculated
[15:05] <ali1234> hmm yeah here 10000x10000 goes very fast
[15:05] <ali1234> try 36000x17700
[15:05] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, oh yes 3 channel music .. loved outrun and that blonde babe in the car
[15:05] <exobuzz> she was hot and pixellated
[15:06] <exobuzz> sam fox strip poker, in the spectrum.. . heh
[15:06] <jibadeeha> i knew sam fox was coming lol
[15:06] <exobuzz> s/in/on
[15:06] <jibadeeha> i remember the your sinclair edition covering vixen - was sort of embarrassed to buy it
[15:07] <popey>  3455 alan      20   0 3999m 3.8g 2740 R   92 49.0   0:40.32 convert
[15:07] <exobuzz> oh yeh. vixen! and erm. game over, and barbarian i think were naughty. and psyscho pigs uxb
[15:08] <ali1234> popey: yeah
[15:08] <ali1234> is computer still usable while that's churning away?
[15:08] <popey> yes
[15:08] <ali1234> because mine totally locks up
[15:08] <popey> i can kill it with perl though
[15:08] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, you remember them all .. though hard to forgetm, especially barbarian
[15:08] <popey> get it to swap and it really locks up
[15:08] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, just tried chaos now .. asking how many wizards i want
[15:09] <ali1234> ok, next step is to run latencytop while doing this
[15:09] <exobuzz> playing alone? 3 maybe. you and 2 computer
[15:09] <ali1234> preferably on a remote ssh because otherwise it will never update the display
[15:11] <shauno> wow.  1Mx1M took just over 6 minutes to scale
[15:11] <ali1234> how much ram you got?
[15:12] <shauno> 4Gb
[15:12] <ali1234> same
[15:12] <shauno> someone needs to teach that thing to thread :(
[15:12] <ali1234> how big is your input file?
[15:12] <shauno> hah, no idea, I just nuked it because dropbox was trying to upload it
[15:12] <ali1234> it's not CPU bound at all
[15:13] <ali1234> it's slow because of the swapping
[15:13] <ali1234> 1Mx1M you say?
[15:13] <shauno> it's sitting at 100% of one core on mine
[15:13] <popey> yeah, same here
[15:13] <ali1234> hum
[15:13] <ali1234> mine too
[15:13] <ali1234> actually, here it is using 330% of my CPU, so over 3 cores
[15:13] <ali1234> and only 200MB of ram
[15:14] <ali1234> so the computer remains completely usable
[15:14] <ali1234> well, sort of
[15:15] <ali1234> it must look at how much ram+swap you have, and use a different algorithm if it can't fit the whole thing in ram+swap
[15:15] <ali1234> which is stupid, for this it should only consider ram size, not ram + swap
[15:16] <shauno> odd, top shows it bouncing between 'running' and 'stuck'
[15:16] <Azelphur> DragonKeeper: btw I'm following portal 2 / wine stuff
[15:16] <ali1234> maybe it's not even doing anything
[15:17] <shauno> but yeah, 1Mx1M is using about 600M
[15:17] <Azelphur> DragonKeeper: It's a bug in steams DRM that causes the crash on startup, there are many many windows users affected too. There's a 100+ page thread on the steam forums \o/
[15:17] <ali1234> it's probably using all that memory building the datastructure it will use to store the real image, which is 2.7 TB
[15:18] <shauno> hah, vsize is up to 11Gb
[15:18] <DragonKeeper> Azelphur im using a DVD version not steam
[15:19] <ali1234> oh yeah
[15:19] <Azelphur> DVD version works o.O
[15:19] <Azelphur> are you using -wavonly?
[15:19] <ali1234> don't do this experiment on the desktop, or nautilus will use several GB trying to read the resulting file
[15:19] <DragonKeeper> Azelphur mine crashes on splash screen with err:d3d:wined3d_wndproc Window 0x20082 is not registered with wined3d.
[15:20] <shauno> yeah, I'm getting something similar with the mac.  the metadata service is going nuts
[15:23] <directhex> um... dvd version?
[15:24] <exobuzz> m machine is very responsive even though it is swapping now
[15:24] <exobuzz> doing imagemagick scaling to 1Mx1M pixels
[15:24] <ali1234> scaling to 1Mx1M is a bad test
[15:25] <ali1234> try scaling to 50000x50000 instead
[15:25] <exobuzz> whats a good test ?
[15:25] <exobuzz> ok
[15:25] <exobuzz> tis working.
[15:25] <ali1234> now try to open a new terminal window or something
[15:26] <ali1234> or even just minimize a window or anything like that
[15:26] <exobuzz> yeh was ok
[15:26] <exobuzz> still ok
[15:27] <exobuzz> nothing ground to a halt. but im on 2.6.39 btw not 2.6.38
[15:27] <ali1234> it's done already?
[15:27] <exobuzz> not yet.
[15:28] <exobuzz> i even loaded thunderbird and checked email
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> 1Mx1M is going to be painful :)
[15:29] <shauno> painful was what we were trying to replicate, but I can't seem to convince convert to use swap at all
[15:30] <exobuzz> it might start using temp files instead of swap
[15:30] <ali1234> hmm weird
[15:30] <MartijnVdS> shauno: do you have >4G RAM? :)
[15:30] <ali1234> try 36000x17700
[15:30] <shauno> 'just' 4
[15:30] <ali1234> i also see no swap usage at 50000x50000
[15:30] <exobuzz> 3m10 seconds. done
[15:30] <ali1234> it might have a hardcoded limit or something
[15:30] <shauno> but I haven't got it to go over 1Gb yet.  it gets about 600Mb and then just gets slower
[15:31] <exobuzz> or 4mins30 second. i shoudl read the man file for "time"
[15:31] <shauno> I think maybe look for something that should flood swap, rather than something that appears to be 'clever' about it
[15:31] <ali1234> flooding swap is hard though
[15:31] <ali1234> if yo ujust allocate a lot of ram and don't use it nothing will happen
[15:32] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/eatram.pl.txt
[15:32] <popey> that works
[15:32] <popey> kills my machine pretty quick
[15:32] <popey> 8GB
[15:33] <MartijnVdS> there are easier ways to kill your machine using Perl :)
[15:34] <shauno> :)  <- may be one of them.  you never know.
[15:34] <ali1234> yes that instantly locked up the machine
[15:34] <MartijnVdS> perl -e '@a = 1..1_000_000_000_000' *boom*
[15:35] <MartijnVdS> No need to use strings.. just fill an array :)
[15:35] <shauno> yeah, popey's works.  4Gb into swap and counting
[15:35] <MartijnVdS> gah my entire machine is teh slowz
[15:36] <MartijnVdS> and I have 8G
[15:36] <shauno> hm, stopped at 4.16Gb in swap & 2 'real'
[15:49] <exobuzz> well. that hosed my system
[15:49] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[15:49] <exobuzz> good to know a simple recusive bash function is enough to bring everything to a halt so you cant even ctrl+alt+delete heh
[15:49] <exobuzz> maybe ubuntu shiould have some sensible ulimits
[15:51] <shauno> that eatram made your box fall over?
[16:01] <exobuzz> ok. 600 process limit in place. much better
[16:05] <Bulldog> another skype update o.O  wow  2 in a week   .. most work skype has ever done lol
[16:17] <jacobw> i HATE the scroll bars
[16:18] <jacobw> plural intended, because there's so many differnt ones
[16:18] <jacobw> new scroll bars in unity that is
[16:19] <penguin42> jacobw: Yeh I'm not loving them either - they seem to have infected the gnome apps in my KDE world as well
[16:19] <penguin42> jacobw: I might get used to them though not sure yet
[16:19] <penguin42> I can see they take less horizontal space up which is an advantage
[16:20] <jacobw> it isn't advantage when you can't find them in the first place
[16:20] <penguin42> well yes
[16:25] <Darael> Am I misunderstanding the uptime manpage, or am I right in thinking that a load-average of eleven or more, on a 4-core system, with CPU-usage below 25% as reported by htop ought not to be possible?
[16:30] <MartijnVdS> Darael: you misunderstand :)
[16:30] <Darael> MartijnVdS: Phew.
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> Darael: things can be in a "runnable state" for shorter than the CPU measurement interval
[16:31] <Darael> MartijnVdS: Makes sense, aye.  Cheers.
[16:34] <penguin42> Darael: They are processes that want to run - 100 processes all waiting for IO can give a LA of 100
[16:34] <penguin42> Darael: Or 100 processes all trying to run and getting scheduled in and out all trying to use CPU can do it
[16:35]  * penguin42 has seen about 800 on his poor 2 core laptop when things really go wrong :-)
[17:28]  * brobostigon returns, beautiful sun, :)
[17:38]  * MartijnVdS plays some more SpaceChem
[18:02] <czajkowski> I am addicted to jonahan creak
[18:03] <shauno> some things it's safer to just not admit aloud ;)
[18:03] <czajkowski> :)
[18:03] <czajkowski> everyone enjoy dr. who being back on saturday?
[18:04] <bigcalm> Undecided
[18:04] <czajkowski> hmm
[18:04] <bigcalm> The ep was drawn out, the acting was painful compaired to previous eps.
[18:04] <bigcalm> Didn't want a 2 parter as an introduction
[18:05] <bigcalm> Otherwise enjoyed it
[18:05] <czajkowski> I'm still peeved that the dr has 2 companions
[18:05] <czajkowski> amy ponds hubby drives me batty
[18:05] <bigcalm> Hayley complained of tummy problems after watching the ep :S
[18:06] <shauno> I'll give you that one
[18:06] <shauno> there has to be a limit to how many companions he can have before it turns into scooby who
[18:08] <popey> haha shauno
[18:16] <gord> hehe, bear grylls has a range of clothing, its not what you might think, just shirts and stuff. not animal skins ;)
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> gord: you know the meme, right? :)
[18:18] <gord> sigh, i'm 25 now, maybe i should actually buy an iron
[18:33] <MichealH> A symlink to /var/www will not work D:
[18:33] <MichealH> It gives me a 403
[18:34] <Azelphur> that'll be permissions, not anything to do with a symlink
[18:34] <Azelphur> :P
[18:34] <MichealH> What should the permissions be?
[18:34] <MichealH> 755?
[18:34] <Azelphur> do you understand the permissions system or are you just picking random numbers? :P
[18:35] <Azelphur> (picking random numbers is fine, I'll help you understand it properly XD)
[18:35] <AlanBell> octal permissions should not be allowed!
[18:35] <MichealH> Azelphur: 755 is Owner = rwx Group = r-x Others = r-x
[18:35] <MichealH> :P
[18:36] <AlanBell> yay
[18:36] <Azelphur> ok :P
[18:36] <Azelphur> so you should know the answer to your own question then
[18:36] <MichealH> Not really,  :P
[18:36] <AlanBell> I have a client that goes on about 755 permissions, he has *no* clue what it means
[18:36] <Azelphur> who is /var/www owned by?
[18:36] <MichealH> root, I guess
[18:36] <Azelphur> don't guess, check.
[18:37] <AlanBell> and who is apache running as
[18:37] <MichealH> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-04-25 18:17 www
[18:37] <Azelphur> MichealH: and now for AlanBell's answer :p
[18:37] <AlanBell> so "user apache is running as" != "owner of /var/www" so apache has r-x
[18:38] <MichealH> How would I check that? :P
[18:38] <AlanBell> ps aux |grep apache
[18:38] <Azelphur> MichealH: ps aux | grep apache
[18:38] <AlanBell> it will be www-data
[18:38] <Azelphur> indeed :P
[18:38] <AlanBell> sudo chown www-data:www-data /var/www
[18:41] <MichealH> I have recently restarted he server using sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 reload
[18:41] <MichealH> is that correct? :P
[18:42] <AlanBell> yeah, that is ok
[18:42] <AlanBell> in the startup script for apache it switches to the www-data user
[18:42] <AlanBell> just because root kicked off the startup script doesn't mean the service will run as root
[18:43] <MichealH> drwxr-xr-x 2 www-data www-data 4096 2011-04-25 18:42 www
[18:44] <MichealH> But it still will not stop the 403
[18:45] <MichealH> The ps aux command shows:
[18:45] <MichealH> michealh  4416  0.0  0.1   3324   792 pts/2    S+   18:45   0:00 grep --color=auto apache
[18:46] <MichealH> it seems to be running as me
[18:46] <MichealH> Well... Multiple entries, most are www-data
[18:47] <popey> thats the grep running as you
[18:47] <popey> not apache
[18:47] <MichealH> Okies
[18:48] <MichealH> Still throwing a 403 :/
[18:50] <MichealH> Would it make any difference if It was in a directory I specified in a file in /etc/apache2/sites-available ?
[18:52] <MichealH> popey: ^^
[18:53] <popey> sorry I'm a but busy right now
[18:53] <popey> need to go and put the kids to bed
[18:53] <popey> i would check your /var/log/apache/error.log though
[18:55] <MichealH> [Mon Apr 25 17:23:29 2011] [error] [client 192.168.0.1] Symbolic link not allowed or link target not accessible:
[18:55] <MichealH> Then the dir name of the symlink#
[18:55] <MichealH> :/
[18:57] <popey> that helps :)
[18:57] <MichealH> In my /etc/apache2/httpd.conf I have "Options FollowSymLinks" on
[18:57] <MichealH> for that dir
[18:57] <popey> pass then
[18:59] <MichealH> This may help
[18:59] <MichealH> [Mon Apr 25 18:59:18 2011] [error] [client 192.168.0.1] Directory index forbidden by Options directive
[18:59] <Guest24163> sounds like someone has been trying ../../../../
[19:00] <MichealH> huh?
[19:01] <Guest24163> trying to propagate back through your top level dir, its a old hacking trick thats in loads of books
[19:02] <Guest24163> but you have disabled indexing hense why i thought of that
[19:02] <MichealH> I think I havent
[19:03] <MichealH> Would not defining the index in the httpd.conf be bad, as i have a conf in /etc/apache2/sites-availible
[19:03] <MichealH> With Document toot and stuff
[19:03] <MichealH> s.toot.root
[19:03] <Guest24163> it would, yup
[19:03] <MichealH> How would I do that in the httpd.conf?
[19:04] <Guest24163> it says directory index forbidden which says to me that you have disabled indexing of directories
[19:04] <MichealH> How would I enable it?
[19:05] <ali1234> so everyone managed to crash their system with swapping?
[19:05] <MichealH> Hmm... Now the symlink is playing up
[19:05] <ali1234> any ideas where to go from here?
[19:05] <Guest24163> Options -Indexes
[19:06] <Guest24163> theres loads of details on apache wiki, it would be a great place to start with :)
[19:06] <MichealH> I have the main dir up
[19:06] <popey> ali1234: swappiness?
[19:06] <Guest24163> can i ask what your trying to do?
[19:06] <MichealH> But the symlink, apache will not find it in its list and it is a 403
[19:06] <ali1234> popey: i already tried that
[19:06] <ali1234> it made it slightly worse if anything
[19:06] <shauno> ali1234: mine didn't crash, just made minecraft a bit laggy.  but I was kinda playing devil's advocate ;)
[19:07] <MichealH> Guest24163: Im tryng to symlink ~/ubuntu-at to /var/www/ubuntu-at with /var/www empty
[19:07] <MichealH> I now cannot access the ubuntu-at directory
[19:07] <ali1234> what do the options for ulimit mean?
[19:07] <Guest24163> set the permissions level?
[19:08] <MichealH> Guest24163: Huh?
[19:08] <Guest24163> 403 is forbidden right?
[19:08] <MichealH> Yeah
[19:08] <Guest24163> have you set the permissions level right?
[19:08] <MichealH> Its 755
[19:08] <Guest24163> hmm
[19:09] <Guest24163> are you testing on a live machine
[19:09] <Guest24163> ?
[19:09] <MichealH> drwxr-xr-x  2 www-data www-data    4096 2011-04-25 18:17 ubuntu-at
[19:09] <shauno> beware that apache pays attention to where links are going
[19:09] <MichealH> Its on my server
[19:09] <MichealH> shauno: Hmm?
[19:09] <MichealH> Its in my homedir
[19:09] <shauno> if you allow indexes in /var/www, but don't allow them in / (which is default in ubuntu's install), /var/www/ubuntu-at as a symlink to ~/ubuntu-at won't allow indexes because ~/ubuntu-at is under / but not /var/www
[19:10] <MichealH> How would I allow indexes in /?
[19:10] <Guest24163> directory /
[19:10] <Guest24163> option indexes
[19:10] <shauno> I'd just add a <Directory /your/home/ubuntu-at> in your vhost.  indexes are disabled under / for very sane reasons
[19:11] <Guest24163> ah, thanks shauno :)
[19:11] <ali1234> hmm RLIMIT_RSS does exactly what i need to do, unfortunately it only works on 2.4 kernels
[19:11] <shauno> otherwise people can just use .. to start wandering your entire machine
[19:12] <Guest24163> ../../../
[19:12] <MichealH> shauno:
[19:12] <MichealH> <Directory /home/michealh/ubuntu-at>
[19:12] <MichealH> Options Indexes

[19:13] <MichealH> ?
[19:13] <shauno> pretty much.  I'd just copy the entry for /var/www that's already there
[19:13] <shauno> but that should work as-is
[19:14] <MichealH> Hrmm, I still get a 403
[19:14] <shauno> you reloaded?
[19:14] <MichealH> Yeah
[19:14] <MichealH> Lemme copy the /var/www one
[19:14] <shauno> does the last entry in error.log still say the index is forbidden?
[19:15] <MichealH> [Mon Apr 25 19:14:16 2011] [error] [client 192.168.0.1] File does not exist: /srv/www/meetings.touchlay.com/www/favicon.ico
[19:15] <MichealH> :/
[19:16] <MichealH> Only error
[19:16] <gordonjcp> MichealH: lern2pastebin
[19:16] <MichealH> its for multi line pastes :P
[19:16] <shauno> that one's normal.  if you're getting a 403 forbidden, there should be something in either error.log or access.log to match tho
[19:16] <MichealH> Not single-line pastes
[19:17] <MichealH> where will i find that?
[19:17] <shauno> access.log is in the same folder as the error.log you're already looking at.  but I think the 403 should be in error :/
[19:17] <MichealH> shauno: Im using a vhost with only errorlog enables
[19:18] <shauno> [Mon Apr 25 18:59:18 2011] [error] [client 192.168.0.1] Directory index forbidden by Options directive  <= looking for a new version of this one
[19:19] <MichealH> Im not getting that anymore
[19:20] <shauno> I'd suspect apache wants +rx on your both ~/ and ~/ubuntu-at/ then
[19:20] <MichealH> What command shall I run?
[19:20] <MichealH> sudo chmod +rx ~/ ?
[19:21] <MichealH> drwxr-xr-x  2 www-data www-data    4096 2011-04-25 18:17 ubuntu-at
[19:21] <MichealH> and for home dir
[19:21] <MichealH> drwxr-xr-x 23 michealh michealh 4096 2011-04-25 19:15 michealh
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> SymlinksIfOwnerMatch?
[19:22] <shauno> it'd be really handy if it was logging errors :/
[19:22] <MichealH> MartijnVdS: Hmm?
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> try adding to the Options line
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> -SymlinksIfOwnerMatch
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> and +Symlinks
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> be sure to read the apache documentation about it though - there are security implications
[19:24] <popey> why not host them properly with their own vhosts in /srv/<host>/www/ rather than smooshed up in /var/www ?
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> popey++
[19:24] <shauno> I'd be really tempted to knock your loglevel up to info while you're doing this.  bring it back down after if you like, but troubleshooting blind is messy
[19:25] <MichealH> shauno: How could I do that?
[19:25] <MichealH> Hrmm... still a 403
[19:26] <MichealH> I acctually do have this one in /srv/www/meetings.touchlay.com/www/
[19:27] <MichealH> MartijnVdS:
[19:27] <MichealH> Illegal option Symlinks
[19:27] <MichealH>    ...fail!
[19:27] <MichealH> :/
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> MichealH: please read the Apache documentation about the "Options" option
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> MichealH: it explains which ones are valid and what they do
[19:27] <MichealH> apache docs
[19:28] <MichealH> oops... tought this was chrome
[19:28] <MartijnVdS> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/mod/core.html#options
[19:28] <dwatkins> I noticed, MichealH ;)
[19:29] <shauno> I've discovered a glaring design flaw with my macbook :((
[19:29] <dwatkins> Do tell, shauno.
[19:29] <shauno> I can left-click.  I can right-click.  but I can't do both at once.  this makes cannon fodder unplayable.
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> it runs macos?
[19:30] <dwatkins> shauno: I can't middle-click on mine, unless I get a mouse ;)
[19:30] <shauno> MartijnVdS: when everyone was filling their swaps and bringing their systems to a grinding halt, I got some mild lag in minecraft.  I'm happy with osx, ta :p
[19:31] <jacobw> but.. you missed out on the fun :o
[19:31] <dwatkins> I've been battling with USB on Ubuntu, OS X has no such issues.
[19:32] <jacobw> because when one operating systems has a problem, all others should have the same problem :)
[19:32] <dwatkins> I meant storage problems in general.
[19:34] <dwatkins> I've spent a lot of time installing Ubuntu over the years, whereas OS X just works. I accept that there's a commercial organisation behind OS X and Ubuntu is entirely volunteer-based, I'm just stating what I've observed.
[19:34] <shauno> I still can't believe how long this thing gets on battery.  I still use linux for most tasks you throw a dedicated machine/vm at, but I do think osx is pretty unbeatable on laptops
[19:34]  * brobostigon haz chinese curry, yummy, :)
[19:35] <shauno> even if it is soley because they're only supporting 2 and a half models of laptop
[19:36] <jacobw> depends how computational your tasks are i guess
[19:38] <shauno> either way, I still need to find a new mouse for cannon fodder.  absolutely zero point in getting dosbox going otherwise
[19:43] <popey> right, just upgraded an intel box to natty and I can confirm that even on a box that has no apps open whatsoever, with empty ram, dual core 2GHZ cpu, unity is still slow
[19:44] <dwatkins> What kind of graphics card, popey?
[19:45] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/598854/
[19:45] <popey> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
[19:45] <popey> so the argument that it's my nvidia card at fault holds zero sway with me
[19:46] <brobostigon> popey: with said gpu, could you check to see if you get the same gpu hang/lockup i get, i seems comon across several differnt intel gpu's. please.
[19:46] <dwatkins> I'm just wondering if it's powerful enough.
[19:48] <popey> 10:44 < gord> 945's *should* work with unity fine, but i haven't booted up my 945 in a long time, the power adapter died - which i took as a strong hint that i should buy a new toy instead
[19:48] <popey> I officially own zero machines capable of running unity
[19:48] <popey> I have a dual core 8GB desktop, a dual core 4GB laptop, a dual core 8GB macbook pro.
[19:48] <dwatkins> I wonder if my MBP would run it.
[19:48] <popey> unity is bad on all of them
[19:49] <popey> the ssd in the laptop makes it nice and quick to start up tho
[19:51] <popey> brobostigon: what triggers it?
[19:52] <brobostigon> popey: that is up for debate, let me link you up.
[19:52] <popey> i mean, can you reproduce it easily?
[19:53] <brobostigon> popey: me, yes, use flash, andkill it abruptly.
[19:53] <popey> ali1234: recall your bug about there being a delay clicking between windows on unity? I just tried on intel and it doesnt happen, so looks very much like an nvidia issue
[19:53] <brobostigon> 715096
[19:53] <popey> bug 715096
[19:53] <ali1234> popey: of course :)
[19:55] <popey> brobostigon: have you tried the ppa on that bug?
[19:56] <brobostigon> popey: yes, no lockup/hang yet in two days, of normal use, with standerd natty kernel.
[19:56] <popey> https://launchpad.net/~bryce/+archive/fig using that?
[19:56] <brobostigon> yes.
[19:56] <popey> I'd leave a comment saying that then :)
[19:57] <brobostigon> popey: i am not sure yet, i am going to do more testing, about things i think cause said issue.
[19:57] <popey> well we're only a few days from release
[19:57] <brobostigon> true, yes.
[19:57] <brobostigon> i want to be sure though.
[19:57] <popey> worth saying at least that youve gone a couple of days with no crashes
[19:57] <brobostigon> yes,
[19:59] <brobostigon> popey: i originally thought it was an issue with kms, and drm inside it.
[20:15] <daubers> Evening
[20:15] <brobostigon> good evening daubers
[20:19]  * daubers may need a trip to maplin next weekend
[20:19] <daubers> need moar aluminium cases
[20:22] <gord> popey, brobostigon - if compiz is slow to switch windows and your using firefox. its a firefox bug
[20:23] <gord> basically - the new acceleration it does kills opengl performance
[20:23] <gord> i disabled firefox 4 acceleration in about:config
[20:23] <ali1234> gord: it's not firefox, it's *any* program that uses 3d
[20:23] <popey> firefox 4 is not open
[20:24] <ali1234> gord: for example, glxgears with a 100x100 window and locked to vsync so it only does 60fps
[20:24] <gord> there may be other bugs, all i am talking about is a specific case of firefox
[20:24] <brobostigon> gord: and i dont use unity nor compiz,
[20:24] <ali1234> gord: does turning off acceleration make launchpad render faster?
[20:24] <brobostigon> idont use FF either.
[20:25] <gord> ali1234, i have no ideaw
[20:25] <ali1234> i know that is related to acceleration and nvidia bugs
[20:25] <ali1234> whats the about:config option?
[20:26] <ali1234> layers.acceleration.disabled?
[20:26] <gord> i'm not sure
[20:26] <ali1234> lol how did you change it?
[20:27] <gord> i changed a setting? i don't memorise settings and it was months ago
[20:29] <ali1234> hmm seems much faster now
[20:29] <ali1234> it's funny
[20:29] <ali1234> that the only driver that they whitelisted actually is so buggy that firefox runs faster when you disable accel
[20:37] <AlanBell> what is this a screenshot of? http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/bootsplash.png
[20:38] <gord> someone booting natty in a vm? i mean it says right there
[20:38] <AlanBell> yeah, I know that bit!
[20:38] <AlanBell> that stage of the boot process
[20:38] <AlanBell> it isn't ubiquity, the plymouth people say it isn't them
[20:38] <AlanBell> it isn't grub
[20:39] <AlanBell> I am thinking isolinux is doing it, but not sure
[20:39] <gord> no idea, maybe ask -desktop
[20:39] <AlanBell> I did
[20:40] <gord> ah dang, i spent £0.99 on a phone application, quick, trigger the anti-fraud devices and cancel all my amazon orders! ... stupid bank
[20:40] <stgraber> AlanBell: gfxboot
[20:41] <stgraber> AlanBell: gfxboot is the bit that's rendering the graphical menu on the CD/DVD, it's loaded by isolinux
[20:41] <AlanBell> thanks stgraber
[20:42] <AlanBell> it needs to go beep
[20:42] <AlanBell> bug 732320
[20:43] <brobostigon> bugjam daybug, :)
[20:43] <AlanBell> actually a bug I have been filing every release for the last three releases
[20:43] <brobostigon> :(
[20:44] <gord> bugs are only useful if someone is maintaining
[20:45] <AlanBell> and if they are against the right package
[20:45] <ali1234> true dat
[20:45] <AlanBell> I had been reporting them against casper as someone told me that is where liveCD bugs go
[20:45] <gord> really the kind of thing you need to grab a person about really, maybe a uds thing
[20:45] <AlanBell> great, not going.
[20:46] <gord> or maybe the accessibility team
[20:46] <AlanBell> heh
[20:47] <gord> or of course the alternative, get in there and fix it yourself
[20:47] <AlanBell> that I am happy to do
[20:47] <AlanBell> just need someone to point me in the right direction
[20:48] <gord> time to put your columbo hat on, and start asking questions ;) mailing lists are prolly the most useful
[20:48] <ali1234> columbo raincoat you mean?
[20:49]  * AlanBell does apt-get source gfxboot
[20:54] <AlanBell> ok, so on the cd the image I am interested in is in /isolinux/access.pcx
[20:55] <ali1234> pcx? seriously?
[20:56] <ali1234> i haven't seen a pcx file in years
[20:56] <AlanBell> yes
[20:56] <AlanBell> and I did apt-get source syslinux and apt-get source gfxboot and it isn't in either of them
[20:56] <ali1234> well it could be generated still
[20:57] <AlanBell> grep -rn access.pcx * returns nothing
[20:57] <ali1234> try the plymouth-theme-* packages?
[20:58] <AlanBell> find |grep access returns nothing interesting
[20:58] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/10258/how-to-change-live-cd-splash-screen
[20:59] <AlanBell> yup, that is certainly the file
[21:04] <shauno> watching dr who confidential; they actually built a set for the oval office?  I kinda assumed that'd be 'stock' enough that the beeb would have one ... laying around
[21:06] <AlanBell> so if I boot from a live CD is there a command to find out what package owns /isolinux/access.pcx
[21:08] <brobostigon> shauno: they do have one of no'10 lieing around.
[21:09] <shauno> well you'd think so, wouldn't you.  seems silly having every show build their own
[21:12] <brobostigon> yes
[21:12] <AlanBell> bug 546922 is another one
[23:04] <hamitron> won't there be a poor turn-up to the meeting, with everyone calling in at the pub on the way back from voting?
[23:21] <mgdm> I knew I was missing a channel...
[23:22] <hamitron> the important one too!!! :-o
[23:24]  * bigcalm feels unloved
[23:25]  * hamitron fluffles bigcalm
[23:30] <hamitron> brb, phone
[23:30] <brobostigon> good night eveyone, sleep well.
[23:39] <tugrik> hi - does anyone have a /etc/logrotate.d/pacct file?
[23:55] <hamitron> tugrik: no
[23:58] <BigRedS> hamitron: I'm sure *someone* does :)
[23:58] <hamitron> yeh
[23:58] <hamitron> just letting him know someone saw him I guess
[23:58] <hamitron> :)
[23:59] <hamitron> suppose it was one of my usual unhelpful replies :/