[00:00] webchat is the easiest, but it's a page talking about IRC itself, not the easiest way to connect it [00:00] it works on all platforms with a browser [00:00] and empathy is built in to ubuntu [00:00] but why would anyone read the irc page except to get connected to it? [00:01] typically when people are sent to that page it's to choice a client (usually because they've been using webchat) [00:01] s/choice/choose [00:01] i don't disagree with that [00:01] i'm just wondering if the easiest client should be more prominent [00:02] it is possible to be overwhelmed by choices [00:02] the docs folks hang out in #ubuntu-doc [00:03] i don't see how it's their problem, but i'll speak with them if you would like [00:03] 15:59:35 < pleia2> seidos: I'm sure you can discuss it with the docs team (it's a wiki, but I'm sure folks may disagree about whether it's more important than the other clients, particularly empathy) [00:03] it's bad form to introduce controversal changes [00:03] so you may want to ask the folks responsible for it first :) [00:04] the changes don't necessarily have to be there. i'll just add a link to webchat on the meeting page for CA [00:04] we link to ContactUs, which links to two types of webchats and tons of other stuff [00:04] is that not enough? [00:05] i think it's too much [00:05] * pleia2 sighs [00:05] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2424094/Wiki.png [00:05] perhaps i'm jumping the gun, but i think that's why MarkDude is bringing it up in the first place [00:05] Just replacing ONE of the links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings [00:05] just to see if there is a way to streamline the new user process [00:06] if there isn't, well then, how are you? :P [00:06] the one that says IRC channel- actually points to meetings [00:06] ok, shall we link the IRC Channel one to ubuntu-california.org/chat ? [00:07] * MarkDude thinks it would make sense to name it direct chat- or something similar [00:07] the channel is important for this team, so I really don't want to get rid of the link entirely [00:07] Well yes [00:08] it's terribly annoying for me when teams link to a java/ajax chat instead of just telling me the channel name since I use a client [00:08] just one of the 3 places i circled in yellow [00:08] pleia2, I agree [00:08] i think just making "Javascript webchat client" a link to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-us-ca would be good [00:08] on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings [00:09] MarkDude: Do you think the Online Meetings section should be removed to reduce the number of links? [00:09] Or do you think it's not a good way to get involved and should be removed from that section? [00:09] a sugar project has one of those - it always disconnects [00:09] Or do you think it's not a good way to contact us and should be removed from that section? [00:09] the News Archive link isn't great either, since we don't keep it updated [00:09] probably better to link to Team Reports [00:09] I think it would be a great way to encourage folks to try irc [00:10] s/to link/to just link [00:10] the dropbox photo circles it [00:10] Then you decline to answer. [00:10] MarkDude: can you add this to the meeting agenda? I need to get back to doing home stuff [00:10] mu [00:10] under the contact us would be where to put direct link to webchat [00:10] seidos: not witty or helpful. [00:10] eh [00:11] nhaines, dont stress- I was not sure if I should put on agenda or not [00:11] is the wiki all that official? like couldn't you just edit it then if people don't like it they could revert then if there's a disagreement people talk to eachother [00:11] I will [00:11] MarkDude: so you don't want to reduce the number of links, you just want the links to direct to various places? [00:11] nhaines: sure [00:11] atikus: the last time that happened, the team leadership was removed by the LoCo Council. [00:12] atikus, revert wars on wikis can be rather a bit much [00:12] team leadership? [00:12] nhaines, had very legit questions, btw, and pleia2 thinks meeting would be the place to talk [00:13] MarkDude: you can talk now if you want, but more people will be at the meeting [00:13] anyway, laundry n stuff [00:13] * MarkDude agrees [00:13] and learned from how all that wiki stuff bot over hyped [00:14] wait so is there officially recognized team leadership currently? [00:14] not a huge deal, just anything to make stuff easier [00:14] yes 3 folks atikus [00:14] atikus: yes, three people were appointed by the LoCo Council. [00:15] after? [00:15] atikus: after they abrogated elections, I believe. [00:16] ah [00:16] atikus: they approved the team decision to have 3 leaders and excluded some folks from leadership due to past problems, when elections came around only 3 nominees existed so they were confirmed [00:17] out of curiosity, are there records of the election? [00:17] wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Menu edited [00:17] If more people were nominated - there would have been elections [00:17] atikus: no, because elections did not take place. [00:18] elections didn't take place because there were 3 candidates for 3 positions [00:18] atikus: yeah, in meeting logs and the mailing list [00:18] mostly at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2010-October/thread.html [00:19] anyway, the loco council won't be involved at all in our next election in October, so hopefully this is all water under the bridge :) [00:19] ah, alright [00:19] nice [00:20] Not only that- folks lurned from what happened- things get sorted out fairly now- not that I am implying there were not before. The team has just grown :) [00:20] * pleia2 nods [00:21] * seidos plays a tune on a flute [00:21] * MarkDude was wondering if we might have volunteers for doing the Facebook Cali team page- we get all sorts of views on there [00:22] seidos, what tune? [00:23] MarkDude: i'm not sure, i'm watching this movie "Darios de motocicleta", and there was a tune that played [00:24] on the one hand metaphor...on the other hand literal [00:24] Not sure what that means- but I am pretending it is the Spanish version of Mouse and the Motorcycle [00:25] Mouse and the Motorcycle is probably more entertaining. it means "motorcycle diaries", it's an argentinan film i heard about [00:26] i also got "sobre todo mi madre", and "hable con ella" [00:26] but there weren't any flute tunes in those [00:26] that i can recall [00:32] Can you do Star Wars with the flute? [00:32] maybe Vaders theme? [00:32] metaphorically yes, literally no [00:32] Rebecca Black and that horrible Friday song? [00:32] :) [00:32] well, literally not well. i would like a shakuhachi some day though [00:33] not enough to actually think about it though [00:33] wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings edited [00:37] I was teaching someone about detachment the other day- I thought of you [00:37] and how you might be able to explain it better :) [02:50] wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/11April24 edited [02:51] Ohai Eureka! [02:51] Long time no see buddy. [02:51] I missed you, you know. [02:51] evening [02:51] Hai pleia2! [02:52] how goes, dragon? [02:53] Pretty well, and yourself? [02:53] busy! but good :) [02:56] that's nice! [03:00] ok, meeting time! [03:00] who all is here for the meeting? [03:00] moi! [03:01] ☺ [03:01] and me? [03:01] me [03:01] Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/11April24 [03:02] is Ian Scott here? he added the first agenda item [03:02] present [03:02] not sure what he had in mind for this item :) the big thing coming out with Natty is the new Unity interface [03:03] http://unity.ubuntu.com/ [03:03] maybe we should come back to this one if he drops by [03:03] so... Release Parties! [03:03] we have a wiki page here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/NattyRelease [03:04] so far the only thing on it is a San Francisco release party over at Thirsty Bear again [03:04] (I'll be sending out an announcement to the list momentarily [03:04] ) [03:04] Is there any chance we can get the upstairs, or tables in the back? [03:04] Would be nice to have one in south bay. [03:04] MarkDude: ping? [03:04] eps: unfortunately not, upstairs was something like $45/person :( [03:05] $22 in food, $14 in drinks I think it was [03:05] so $36 [03:05] but still too much! [03:05] I'll make clear in the announcement that it's an informal gathering though, rather than some structured event, just look for people in Ubuntu tshirts :) [03:05] Can we at least get a table near a power outlet? [03:06] we can ask, but I wouldn't recommend bringing a laptop, it's more of an eat, drink, be merry thing like the Lucid one was [03:06] if we want to plan a structured event where we do demos we should schedule a separate event [03:07] (and by "we" I mean the team, "not me" :)) [03:08] * MarkDude here- with distractions sry [03:08] if you want a challenge, try finding the person wearing an ubuntu pen [03:09] dragon: maybe a south bay geeknic release party? :) [03:09] The wifi now WORKS well at Saxbys- we can do there- [03:09] lets do that park near LosGatos again [03:09] geeknic + release party would be nice. [03:09] yes MarkDude! [03:09] I'm in. [03:09] on a day they have that free music [03:09] +1 [03:10] that reminds me, i need to keep working on my juggling [03:10] ok cool, other thoughts on release things? [03:12] sorry I'm late. [03:12] welcome grantbow! [03:13] * grantbow reads [03:14] What Narwhal paraphernalia do we have? [03:15] I have a stuffed animal narwhal [03:15] eps: what do you want to bring? :-) [03:16] grantbow: it's not going to be ready in time [03:16] * sn9 has been too out of the loop lately [03:16] well, release is this upcoming Thursday, but anyone can host installfests and things after that, so keep it in mind in the coming weeks even if you can't organize something by next weekend [03:17] good overview of the release (I give talks from this web page) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/TechnicalOverview [03:17] oh wow, is it meeting night? [03:17] yup [03:18] Right, events can take place shortly after the release this Thursday. [03:18] ok, announcement for SF party sent out: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2011-April/001672.html [03:18] for some definition of shortly [03:18] pleia2: good work [03:18] grantbow: late :( but I've been overwhelmed today [03:19] ok, shall we move on to MarkDude's agenda item about the IRC link? [03:19] last minute agenda items - you are on MarkDude. [03:20] "Putting webchat link in Team header- to replace one of the the three links that points to IRC meeting page more info We have webchat links, they are located further with a few more clicks." [03:20] MarkDude: all yours! [03:21] my suggestion was to add a link to ubuntu-california.org/chat instead, since I hate when chat links go to web chats rather than just telling me what channel to join ;) [03:21] Ok I think we should put a link to webchat [03:21] grantbow: better late than never [03:21] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkTerranova/wiki_header#preview [03:22] pleia2, we could do that for one of the other 2 links to irc meeting page [03:22] seidos: sometimes, last minute agenda items have been discussed in CA team meetings before. [03:22] The "IRC Channel" link should change [03:22] eps: yeah, that's what we're discussing [03:22] MarkDude: yeah, but I wouldn't click on that if I was looking for the IRC channel, I'd click on the IRC Channel link and then get annoyed that it went to a web chat [03:22] Can we have both? Like pleia2 I'd hate to be taken to a webchat link without warning -- but we should have them for people who need them. [03:22] * MarkDude outlineed his thoughts on the wiki page, its only a wiki thing - and not a super serious issue :) [03:22] this isn't a big change IMHO [03:23] "Online Meetings" under "Get Involved" doesn't make sense given that there's a full-fledged column right next to it. [03:23] yeah, not a big change [03:23] so you dont want it going direct to a webchat? [03:23] Well to tell a newbie click on the webchat named link- would work on any page [03:23] pleia2: but you wouldn't need the link in the first place, would you? [03:23] iheartubuntu: I'd rather it go to a page that says "here's the IRC channel name, here's the webchat link" [03:23] or just clarifying thel ink [03:23] where's the diff? :) [03:23] since it is in the header [03:23] akk: the question is how we'd fit it in that tiny menu :) [03:24] seidos: I would if I was new to the team [03:24] why not make the link read "IRC: #ubuntu-us-ca" and when clicked, opens webchat [03:24] seidos: that could work [03:24] I'm OK with a level of indirection. I'm not a fan of webchat, except as a last resort. [03:24] seidos: actually, new people don't know what IRC means [03:24] :\ [03:24] if you click on the webchat link that has the channel name already, we reduce a few hoops [03:25] MarkDude are you saying from your page we have too many links to the webchat and to consolidate them? [03:25] "IRC Channel" as it is named now is probably a poor name [03:25] webchat makes assumptive sense [03:25] "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" perhaps? [03:25] "chatroom" [03:25] sure :) [03:25] many newbies dont even know what IRC stands for [03:25] pleia2: +1, that's what I was thinking. [03:25] chatroom sounds scary sn9 [03:25] then say Channel: #ubuntu-us-ca [03:25] pleia2, +1 [03:25] seidos: people don't know what a Channel is either :) [03:25] Newbies have enough trouble with the concept of online meetings. [03:26] it's a think you tune on your TV, right? [03:26] webchat word help bridge it, imho [03:26] + for pleia2 [03:26] pleia2: under contact us it says "IRC Channel" [03:26] also, on the following page, the text "javascript webchat client" doesn't really make sense. [03:26] seidos: yeah, that's the wording we're trying to fix [03:26] Not everyone knows the meaning and implications of "Javascript". [03:26] whenever i explain what irc is i get "so, it's a chatroom?" [03:26] pleia2: at one point people didn't know what "email" meant either [03:26] so, "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" with a link to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-us-ca [03:26] dragon, minus that it causes their browser to crash :D [03:27] that works for me [03:27] lol. [03:27] is our wiki for us or the public or both? [03:27] pleia2: even better to embed the chatroom in a wiki page, if possible. [03:27] grantbow: both [03:27] dragon: not possible [03:27] And will make it less frustrating for when folks are at conferences that dont agree with some chat clients [03:28] Is there an https: page we can link to? [03:28] ah okay. Link works then. [03:28] dragon, Oregon did that with a hello icon- sounded good [03:28] a few folks felt talked down to needing to click on a picture [03:28] too easy can feel like a pat on the head :) [03:29] depends on your assumptions about the audience [03:29] vs. actuals [03:29] well, I think this is a pretty simple change and we link to our Meetings page enough, any major objections? [03:29] I like pleia2 example of "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" with a link to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-us-ca " [03:29] thanks for bringing this up MarkDude, it's a good change :) [03:30] I think we need to make sure the wording is very distinct between an explanation page and a direct webclient. [03:30] we have a very small space to use [03:30] np [03:31] nhaines, is correct - it appears some fine tuning on wording could be used [03:31] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom for instance links directly without mentioning channel [03:31] and that's a pretty common example [03:31] on the irc page- if another link for sumthin is needed- we have it :) [03:32] so even with the "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" I was trying to be a bit more explicit than some :) [03:32] we could have the link go to a landing page describing what the chat is about, upcoming meetings, and then the link to the direct chat [03:32] nhaines: what do you think is needed? [03:32] what about "live webchat" [03:32] iheartubuntu: I think that's what Mark is trying to avoid, lots of clicks to get to chat [03:32] instead of irc channel [03:33] grantbow: a compelling reason to change the menus, to start. [03:33] how about live webchat then [03:33] iheartubuntu: then where do we put #ubuntu-us-ca for experienced users? another line? [03:33] if its LIVE people should get the intention [03:33] iheartubuntu, we have a link to it on the irc page I believe [03:33] nhaines: currently "IRC Channel" links to our Meetings page, which is incorrect, I think that's a compelling reason [03:34] its still not technically live yet until they key in a nickname and the captha [03:34] we can have two paths or more to get there- [03:34] "live webchat #ubuntu-us-ca" [03:34] we do much much more than meetings here (in fact, most of our everything is done here, we're a very chat-heavy team) [03:34] pleia2: it's a compelling reason to have a page describing the channel, perhaps. [03:35] yeah, which is why at the beginning of this I suggested just linking to ubuntu-california.org/chat [03:35] Especially if there are more than one. [03:35] yeah, we do have the -offtopic channel that isn't actually mentioned anywhere but the /topic here [03:36] that should be on the wiki [03:36] sn9: where do you recommend it be put? [03:36] at the top of this chat is pretty good already IMO [03:37] when one enters this chat, everything very clear. webpage, next meeting, the chat is logged, and that we have an unlogged room too [03:38] grantbow: anywhere is better than nowhere [03:39] iheartubuntu: are you saying that this information should only be available if someone is able to connect to IRC? [03:39] MarkDude: is your objection that it takes several clicks to get to webchat? would wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/IRC page that we link to in the menu with links to webchat and both channels be sufficient? [03:39] iheartubuntu: yes, very clear. Very clear text. Not good for using registered nicks. [03:39] that would also give us the opportunity to explain what it is [03:39] it would make sense to also be on a landing page as i mentioned earlier, before someone enters a chat [03:39] additional information could be included in the general "contact us" link [03:39] Not really, IMHO [03:39] But I dont feel the need to argue it [03:40] one less click is good [03:40] Just like folks not needing to create a LP acct 1st [03:40] an additional click is fine if there utility to it [03:40] *there's [03:40] ok, well I think we can agree that at least clarification is needed (not link to Meetings), just where to link and wording [03:40] MarkDude: no one needs to create an LP account before joining the chat. That doesn't make any sense. [03:40] im jsut trying to think of myself as a new user coming here... id appreciate a landing page describing the webchat and info about it before entering [03:40] we have 3 links that go to the same place in the header- we would not lose anything at all [03:41] +2 [03:41] MarkDude: mind if I brainstorm a little this week and you can let me know what you think? [03:41] iheartubuntu, as I have done with other people - when sending them to a channel [03:41] webchat direct links they can use on Windows , apple, or Linux are helpful [03:41] perhaps creating a page on the ubuntucalifornia site with embedded chat that includes a description? [03:41] Sure only 3 people at most [03:42] seidos: ubuntu-california.org/chat just lacks embedded [03:42] we could do that [03:42] I'll do that as a test this week and see what people think [03:42] Can we make sure we don't just dump people into a logged, permanently archived and searchable channel without their prior consent? [03:42] i'm not sure the best way to embed webchat on ubuntu-california.org/chat [03:42] does anyone? [03:43] * MarkDude leaves- the L word was said [03:43] nhaines - logging into webchat.freenode you need to type in any nick and also a phrase to enter [03:43] seidos: yes, it's easy [03:43] webchat.freenode describes how to embed the chat into a page [03:43] ok, well Mark left and that was his agenda item so we should probably wrap up and revisit when we have some ideas together [03:43] iheartubuntu: is the embedded chat going to use webchat.freenode? [03:43] i would think so [03:43] yep [03:44] MarkDude: for the log - uh, what? You put this on the agenda. [03:44] its the easiest... but it has bugs when using chrome [03:44] nothing major [03:44] iheartubuntu: sweet [03:44] ok, so let's move on, that's the last agenda item, but anything else? [03:44] Announcements? Questions? Etc? [03:45] pleia2: I would like to request natty CDs this cycle. [03:46] announcement... pasadena ubuntu hour was a big success. 8 peopel showed up. siedos was there also jbermudes [03:46] nhaines: sure thing! I'll email the list when I get them in and keep details about how many we have remaining on the wiki just like with Maverick [03:46] I sent the team request a few weeks back [03:46] richard who spoke at ubucon was there as well [03:46] pleia2: +1 [03:46] pleia2: excellent. I'd like to get a set for OCLUG as well, but I'll do details later. What's the best way to request them? [03:46] yep, april 7th https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2011-April/001658.html [03:47] nhaines: just email me how many you need and I'll get them shipped out [03:47] locals here tend to donate for shipping across the state, so I don't generally have to pay much out of pocket [03:47] pleia2: I'm happy to cover shipping. We'll work that out in email too. :) [03:47] nhaines: sounds good! [03:48] iheartubuntu: that rocks re: pasadena hour! [03:48] for those wanting to do ubuntu hours, it really attracts people to have a UH on the same day as a LUG [03:48] our SF hour had 5 people, but we did bump into a project manager in the shop who said she uses ubuntu too :) and that's what it's all about, good times [03:49] yeah, ubuntu hour + debian dinner works out great for us every few months [03:49] any advice would be appreciated on doing a regular quarterly shipment from ubuntu store. best timeframe to order based on store sales and ubuntu release dates [03:50] OCLUG is planning a weeknight meeting to test attendance and is planning it around Ubuntu Hour in Lake Forest so they don't overlap. I thought that was really thoughtful. [03:50] (They're planning it to be on the alternate week to avoid overlaps.) [03:50] ah, that's nice of them [03:51] iheartubuntu: that's a good question, I'm not sure, I think their release of merchandise can be a bit random :\ [03:51] Usually they dump merchandise just before the new cycle. I was shocked to see natty shirts last week. Usually it's really two weeks after launch before they get stuff in. [03:52] i had 4 people order when i placed the order... might work better if i didnt order right before a major release as nhaines advised [03:52] ok, we can probably wrap things up now (and I need to go make dinner) [03:52] thanks everyone :) [03:52] * iheartubuntu wonders what the L word is [03:52] linux? [03:52] no [03:52] logged? [03:53] thanks all [03:53] it's a word that's in the /topic [03:53] join #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic ;-) [03:54] or #fictionalphilosophy! [03:54] :D [03:54] and #iheartubuntu ;) [03:55] ##stupidcrap [03:56] T_T [03:56] lol [03:56] he's laughing at my pain [03:58] me? no. plenty else to laugh at here. [03:59] like the REAL "l" word - LoCo [03:59] heh true [04:07] seidos: ping [04:08] sn9: pong [04:08] my connection isn't slow, i was doing dishes [04:13] seidos: you have /notice blocked, too? [04:16] sn9: apparently, yes. you might try /query === sn9 is now known as MySpoonIsTooBig === MySpoonIsTooBig is now known as DonkeyHotei === seidos is now known as ChickenGhost === ChickenGhost is now known as seidos [08:25] whats the best way to run ssh on a server with dynamic ip address? [09:13] philipballew: either get a router that supports DynDNS accounts, or run a cron script that SFTPs your server's IP address to a secret file on a web host. [09:16] alright, ill open up the router tonight and see what it can do! thanks [18:05] I notice there is a Solano Stroll 2011 planned. Does the CA team plan to do that again this year? Look like it was PACKED last year. WOW! [18:10] yep, that's the plan [18:10] Great event [18:10] id love to be there! looks incredible. [18:10] hopefully I'll get to go this year, I don't remember where I was last year [18:11] Sorry for leaving the meeting- I figured the last thing this team needs is a huge debate over a simple wiki edit [18:11] there is an event in Claremont, CA down here... i think it was recent (or end of last year) that is supposedly the largest street fair event down here. im willing to look into it and get mroe info for an Ubuntu booth [18:12] oh, I was in Philly, tail end of labor day trip [18:12] people are passionate about wiki :) haha [18:12] * MarkDude does not plan on discussing logging [18:12] iheartubuntu: nice! [18:12] time is going by so quick these days i dont recall if it was last month or end of last year! yikes [18:12] there is a lug up here that goes to a farmers market [18:13] one in jersey has set up a booth at a flea market, and akgraner's loco went to a goat festival once [18:13] iheartubuntu, that is why I tried to clarify it was a small blip in the whole order of things [18:14] * MarkDude spent time helping organize a release party in Portland at a cool place called Backspace [18:14] non-geeky regular people there? [18:15] I think that's what's great about solano (and other events like it) [18:15] whole new audience! [18:17] OK, i checked. Its usually in october in Claremont, CA... southern californias largest autumn street fair. [18:17] although not as big as the solano one, it was pretty crowded last year [18:18] * MarkDude has learned from Solano- that having folks in the booth is great [18:18] but having a person standing in the crowd directing folks to the booth kept us very busy [18:19] * MarkDude 's question to folks was- have you heard about Ubuntu? [18:19] and since its basically Berkeley - I would follow up with do you want FREEDOM on your computer? [18:39] pleia2 - excellent article about jledbetter :) now, if only i can learn java in 30 days as the book suggests [18:40] * pleia2 breaks down "girls don't like computers" myth one interview at a time! [18:40] +1 [18:41] gave a few ubuntu cds out yesterday at the bbq [18:44] example... mac user who is on an extreme budget. cant afford more software (or afford anything really) [18:44] he had never heard of ubunut [18:44] ubuntu [18:44] i guess i am an ubu-nut though [18:44] mac can be a hassle depending in which bootloader it has [18:44] he doesnt do video editing or anything [18:45] so for him, ubuntu might actually be something for him to think about when his computer goes bye bye [18:55] im interested in getting more women involved in ubuntu [18:55] both involved and just generally using ubuntu [18:56] iheartubuntu, +1 [18:56] it is very rewarding [18:56] As long as you can make sure you are not pandering- it is cool to see folks learn new skills [18:59] a prime example... my wife prefers XP. MS money is on it, as well as quick books pro. her comp at home is XP and she always complains about it. always. im always trying to fix something on it [18:59] at work here, ive got ubuntu for her comp, with xp in virtualbox [18:59] i really didnt have to teach her anything about ubuntu [18:59] she picked it up on her own [19:00] we got a new webcam so she can talk to family [19:00] she didnt even ask me for help [19:00] plugged it in and it worked [19:00] no drivers to install from a cd or anything [19:00]