[00:05] <jrmy> food coma?
[00:05] <jrmy> as in eating?
[00:06] <jrmy> never heard that before
[01:34] <jjesse> you ate a bunch and are now so tired you don't want to do anything but sleep
[01:35] <jrmy> i'd love to be able to have one of those.. no wonder ive never heard of it xD
[01:44] <snap-l> Finally home
[01:44] <snap-l> ugh, tired
[01:47] <jjesse> sounds like a busy day
[01:50] <snap-l> was up @ 7am
[01:51] <snap-l> just now getting back from parents
[01:51] <jjesse> wow
[01:51] <rick_h__> snap-l: welcome back to the world
[02:01] <snap-l> rick_h__: It's good to be back
[12:57] <wolfger> morning
[12:58] <rick_h__> party part
[12:58] <rick_h__> http://blogs.gnome.org/xclaesse/2011/04/25/one-week-with-gnome3/
[12:58] <rick_h__> interesting read of the morning
[12:59] <brousch> i put a different interesting rad up on the twitter
[13:00] <rick_h__> yea, nice read
[13:00] <rick_h__> love how netflix does that
[13:01] <brousch> it is pretty awesome to be so confident in your architecture that you intentionally kill it at random
[13:01] <rick_h__> yea, but they had much fewer issues than the rest with the AWS outage
[13:01] <brousch> i cross my fingers and sacrafice a bottle of rum and chicken to jobu when i go on vacation
[13:02] <brousch> they so few problems because they build failure correction into evetything. it is amazing
[13:03] <brousch> heh, ctrl-del to delete a file in nautilus? they took that from osx where you use cmd-del
[13:06] <rick_h__> yea, that one was one I stopped on for a minute
[13:06] <rick_h__> I was thinking he meant like shift-delete to skip the bin
[13:06] <rick_h__> but then realized no...to really just delete to trash del doesn't work :(
[13:07] <brousch> it doesn't annoy me any more than windows' "are you sure you want to delete this?"
[13:09] <rick_h__> well I think the point of discoverability is valid
[13:10] <rick_h__> and at least delete still deletes, just asks you some questions first :)
[13:11] <brousch> it's valid. i had to google how to delete in osx
[13:13] <tjagoda> Poor Playbook
[13:13] <tjagoda> It is such an awesome tablet
[13:13] <rick_h__> lol
[13:13] <tjagoda> being covered by such an Apple zealous body of journalists
[13:13] <rick_h__> it takes a good eye to really appreciate
[13:13] <tjagoda> Seriously, thing is awesome
[13:13] <tjagoda> interface and OS are rock solid
[13:14] <tjagoda> And any journalist asshat whom expects something to have 300,000 applications on launch day is a tard
[13:14] <rick_h__> come on, even BB admits it's not 'solid as a rock' as it's getting changes all the time post-release
[13:14] <tjagoda> I think we have different defintions of solid
[13:15] <tjagoda> When I say solid I'm referring to the actual function of the OS
[13:15] <rick_h__> which they're adding to/changing since it's not solid yet
[13:15] <tjagoda> which I have not yet experienced a bug in, with the exception of one or two web pages which do a peer reset
[13:15] <rick_h__> a good base maybe? (hard to say that without a non BB email client..but ok)
[13:15] <tjagoda> Most of their changes seem to be based on feedback
[13:15] <tjagoda> Which I see as a good thing
[13:16] <tjagoda> People complained about the hard powerbutton being hard to get at (which it isnt after it's been broken in by being pushed a few times)
[13:16] <tjagoda> So an update pushed out a soft power button
[13:16] <tjagoda> Stuff like that
[13:17] <tjagoda> From a threat-management standpoint, bridge-only email is kind of a feature - but only if your workforce is blackberry equipped
[13:17] <tjagoda> When bridged, the tablet never gets physical copies of the mail anywhere on the device
[13:17] <rick_h__> right, and only if they get all of their email on their BB...so it's a corp device then, not a personal one
[13:17] <tjagoda> so you're not adding another mobile device for your workers to loose and compromise
[13:18] <rick_h__> right, which means if I forget, dont' feel like tethering (battery anyone) etc it sucks
[13:18] <tjagoda> Well yes, but I did start off by framing this entire thing from a corporate perspective
[13:18] <tjagoda> And the bluetooth tethering hasn't very adversly affected my battery life
[13:18] <rick_h__> right, but you're knocking journalists who are not on BB companies that frame it as "I'd not give up my iPad2 for this crap"
[13:18] <tjagoda> I just shut it off when I don't want to look at mail, as the contorls to do so from the tablet are quick adn easy
[13:18] <rick_h__> any wireless radio adversly affects battery unless you've found magic radio wave generation
[13:19] <tjagoda> /adversely/ affects
[13:19] <rick_h__> bah, whatever. Not going there this morning. Enjoy your new business toy
[13:19] <tjagoda> I don't suddenly have to charge my phone halfway through the day now that I turn bluetooth on
[13:19] <tjagoda> Thing is pretty cool
[13:19] <tjagoda> Will be even more cool as they continue to push out updates
[13:20] <tjagoda> I was surprised by how well it sold on launch day despite the shit storm of press it got, to be honest
[13:35] <jrwren> BB gave away PB to anyone who wrote apps. Even stupid apps. I know 2 guys that have 'em.
[13:36] <tjagoda> A lot of stuff is supposed to start filling in in early May from what I've read on froums
[13:37] <snap-l> tjagoda: Really hope they don't get Palm disease, where the apps are easy to write, and impossible to distribute unless you're a company.
[13:37] <tjagoda> I have actually seen a lot of stuff from one-man devs
[13:37] <tjagoda> which refer to themselves by name and not my LLC
[13:37] <tjagoda> so that is encouraging
[13:38] <tjagoda> not by*
[13:40] <brousch> i would think these security-obessed corporate fascists would not want apps from long-haired hippie devs
[13:41] <jrwren> I'm just not sure the business market is big enough for them to thrive.
[13:41] <snap-l> Went to staples a few days after Playbook launch. Saw that they were selling it, but also saw an empty double-sided sticky post where a Playbook should have been
[13:41] <tjagoda> I pre-ordered mine from best buy online
[13:41] <jrwren> but it might be a huge success in the non business market that is BB obsessed.
[13:42] <tjagoda> The in-store displays are lacking, indicating that RIM really might not entirely care about the consumer market
[13:42] <snap-l> I just hope that like the iPhone market filled the void of fart and flashlight apps, the Playbook can fill the void of eMail apps.
[13:42] <tjagoda> Amazon had low-stock of the playbook yesterday
[13:42] <tjagoda> Which encourages me as to its pace of sales
[13:43] <snap-l> tjagoda: Artificial scarcity
[13:43] <snap-l> common tactic in retail
[13:43] <tjagoda> If it works for nintendo, it works for RIM!
[13:43] <snap-l> ship low numbers, then say that it's sold out
[13:43] <snap-l> gets journalists to write the obligatory "blah blah has sold out"
[13:43] <snap-l> and folks then take notice.
[13:44] <snap-l> Which is why I don't pay any attention to items that are based off of units shipped (Billboard) or blah blah sold out first week of release
[13:44] <tjagoda> I wish RIM would report sales sooner than their quarterly earnings
[13:44] <tjagoda> I'd like to see how the pace did after the first day pre-order impact
[13:44] <snap-l> tjagoda: Why? They like their stock to go up
[13:45] <snap-l> reporting those numbers before quarterly earnings will do bad things for a stock
[13:45] <tjagoda> I'd assume it would be going down, from the shitstorm of negative press though?
[13:45] <snap-l> You leak it out gradually
[13:45] <tjagoda> Then again
[13:45] <tjagoda> there is always room for more down
[13:45] <tjagoda> They really need a better playbook spokesman though
[13:46] <tjagoda> the Co-CEO thing just doesn't do it justice
[13:46] <tjagoda> Lazaridis especially
[13:46] <brousch> some sexy and business-oriented
[13:46] <brousch> like donald trump
[13:46] <tjagoda> They have J-Lo
[13:47] <brousch> i nomnate donald trump as the spokesman for the playbook
[13:47] <tjagoda> That would be epic
[13:47] <snap-l> If Trump == Sexy, then I'll decidedly be unsexy
[13:47] <tjagoda> I'd buy two more just because I could
[13:47] <brousch> snap-l: you're sexier than trump!
[13:47] <snap-l> tjagoda: Then sales would jump 100%
[13:47] <tjagoda> rofl =P
[13:47] <tjagoda> It's very good at media consumption
[13:48] <brousch> you can't have trump without the wig, just like you can't have a playbook without the bb
[13:48] <tjagoda> podcast library it comes with is pretty big
[13:48] <tjagoda> And it's music store is non-DRM and native MP3
[13:48] <tjagoda> no proprietary apple format that the iPod uses
[13:48] <tjagoda> Can you access the iPad as a network share?
[13:49] <snap-l> the problem with the playbook is iy just feels... desperate
[13:49] <tjagoda> Not after you've sat down using it for a few days it doesn't
[13:49] <tjagoda> Feels powerful then
[13:49] <tjagoda> Interface is really well done honestly
[13:50] <tjagoda> blackberry fan or not
[13:50] <tjagoda> there is no denying that
[13:50] <tjagoda> They did not screw up the use-the-bezel-to-navigate thing
[13:50] <snap-l> tjagoda: I mean they screwed up the marketing message
[13:50] <tjagoda> I do not disagree with you there
[13:50] <tjagoda> Co-CEO's did a pretty bad job of trying to clear it up
[13:51] <snap-l> If this had come out around the time of the iPad, and before the glut of Android tablets, this would be remarkable
[13:51] <snap-l> unfortunately, it's got Windows Phone 7 disease.
[13:51] <snap-l> "me too"
[13:51] <snap-l> "we're still relevant"
[13:51] <tjagoda> WinMo was relevant ever?
[13:51] <tjagoda> =(
[13:52] <brousch> indeed, back when bb was
[13:53] <tjagoda> brousch: pish
[13:54] <tjagoda> WinMo was never up in corporate grace like BB
[13:54] <brousch> i personally used more winmo devices than bb. 1-0
[13:55] <tjagoda> I used one winMo phone and regreted it's purchase for the entierty I owned it
[13:55] <brousch> mine wasn't a phone. i guess it was a pda
[13:56] <brousch> but it had bluetooth and a bluetooth modem and vnc so i could do stuff remotely, back in 2000
[13:56] <tjagoda> http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/2010/03/10/windows-mobile-market-share-drops-like-a-rock/
[13:56] <brousch> maybe 2001
[13:56] <tjagoda> That chart is clearly pre-androidapalooza
[14:01] <snap-l> Regardless of the tablet's strengths, they've branded this (intentionally or not) as the tablet device for Blackberry users
[14:01] <snap-l> That's an awful way to marginalize yor customers
[14:03] <tjagoda> There are still 50 million of them
[14:03] <tjagoda> So I guess its not a bad segment to target
[14:03] <tjagoda> but I still wish they wouldn't have'
[14:03] <tjagoda> If not just to get the blackberry name out infront of people again
[14:04] <snap-l> tjagoda: You have underdog's disease.
[14:04] <snap-l> I get it a lot
[14:04] <snap-l> Where you want whatever product to succeed despite reality. :)
[14:04] <tjagoda> It worked with AMD
[14:04] <tjagoda> =(
[14:05] <snap-l> Which is why I was rooting for the 3DO, Palm, Linux... :)
[14:05] <tjagoda> And its good day 1 launch sales only serve to enable me =(
[14:05] <snap-l> I wonder how many of those are non-journalist purchases.
[14:06] <snap-l> I suspect a healthy number of those were journalist / blogger sales, along with "will it blend". ;)
[14:07] <tjagoda> Now you're just trying to troll =P
[14:07] <snap-l> and folks who have been waiting for Blackberry's answer to Android
[14:07] <tjagoda> My parents played with my Playbook for a bit
[14:07] <tjagoda> And then promptly went out and bought one for themselves
[14:07] <tjagoda> So I say the device has the potential to still not suck
[14:07] <rick_h__> because they have corporate BB phones?
[14:07] <rick_h__> or because they don't use email or calendaring?
[14:07] <rick_h__> :P
[14:08] <snap-l> rick_h__: ++
[14:08] <rick_h__> man, you tgalk out of both sides it's driving me nuts
[14:08] <snap-l> (couldn't type that out quickly enough)
[14:08] <rick_h__> "it's not for consumers, give it a break!" ... "Oh, it so cool anyone should want one and my parents got one"
[14:08] <tjagoda> They have no interest in pairing it with their BB devices
[14:08] <snap-l> tjagoda: They actually own BBs?
[14:08] <rick_h__> how big a check do they send you?
[14:08] <tjagoda> My dad does, my mom does not
[14:08] <rick_h__> tjagoda: issued, he needs to keep them secure you know, all those important grandkid texts
[14:09] <tjagoda> My dad is the operations manager
[14:09] <snap-l> Do they give them out free after purchasing ten Tim Hortons coffees?
[14:09] <tjagoda> I WISH THEY DID
[14:09] <tjagoda> Could have saved a ton
[14:09] <tjagoda> =P
[14:09] <snap-l> [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][BB]
[14:10] <snap-l> tjagoda: Operations manager at the company that you're working at?
[14:10] <tjagoda> Yeah, when I started here as an intern he was my boss
[14:10] <tjagoda> I now work for his boss
[14:10] <snap-l> tjagoda: So he's got incentive to stick with BB
[14:11] <tjagoda> I wouldn't say that had an impact on his tablet decision
[14:11] <snap-l> and if I had a BB, I might consider the Playbook
[14:11] <snap-l> tjagoda: Bull
[14:11] <tjagoda> He doesn't have an interest in pairing his phone to it
[14:11] <tjagoda> Liked the size of it more than anything
[14:11] <snap-l> Did he compare it with anything else?
[14:12] <tjagoda> He looked at the tablet's best buy stocks
[14:12] <tjagoda> so that's iPad for sure
[14:12] <tjagoda> do they stock the android stuff?
[14:12] <snap-l> Oh, so the Xoom, Dell's patetique
[14:12] <snap-l> and the Samsung Galaxy
[14:12] <snap-l> if he's cheap like I am, he'd have bought the playbook
[14:13] <snap-l> I don't think they make you buy a plan, do they?
[14:13] <tjagoda> No, it's wifi
[14:13] <tjagoda> all carrier neutral at this point
[14:14] <rick_h__> you mean it just tethers with BB and ATT won't let you so hope you're on Verizon if you want network access that's not wifi?
[14:14] <snap-l> Well, not really
[14:15] <snap-l> I don't think any of the other tablets they sell at BB come without a contract
[14:15] <tjagoda> I mean some people don't have an interest in using it as a 3G device
[14:15] <snap-l> at least they don't make it obvious
[14:15] <tjagoda> And are perfectly content using it on Wifi
[14:16] <snap-l> I'm perfectly content in running stuff on wifi, but I think the BB is the nly tablet advertised as such
[14:16] <snap-l> so no wonder they bought it
[14:16] <tjagoda> Just like my parents don't care about calendars and native mail
[14:16] <tjagoda> because they use webmail anyway
[14:16] <snap-l> Apparently they don't care about Angry Birds either. ;)
[14:16] <tjagoda> Nah, not into the games
[14:16] <snap-l> If you'd shown them that, they would have bought Android.
[14:16] <tjagoda> It does have a few neat games of its own though
[14:16] <snap-l> It's not a game, it's crystal meth
[14:17] <tjagoda> Nothing so big as Angry Birds
[14:17] <snap-l> tjagoda: Solitaire?
[14:17] <brousch> corporate strategy and espionage games?
[14:17] <tjagoda> It's got some neat sketch games
[14:18] <tjagoda> Puzzel like sketch game where you try to get the marble/ball to an endpoint
[14:18] <tjagoda> Kind of addicting
[14:18] <tjagoda> Actually does have solitare
[14:18] <snap-l> "Let's go Org-chart", the exciting game where you reorgainze the departments
[14:18] <tjagoda> Need for Speed ships on the tablet
[14:19] <brousch> but all the cars are replaced with corporate fleet vehicles?
[14:19] <tjagoda> If they are, then we have the wrong corporate fleet
[14:19] <brousch> ford escort vs natural gas honda civic!
[14:19] <snap-l> brousch: You've selected Escort with the wobbly brakes
[14:20] <tjagoda> rofl
[14:20] <snap-l> Racing a rental car fleet.
[14:20] <tjagoda> It's fun
[14:20] <tjagoda> you steer by tilting the tablet
[14:20] <snap-l> "You've been upgraded to: Economy"
[14:20] <tjagoda> its obvious they polished it highly because they new it would be the default ship game
[14:21] <jcastro> nixternal: hmm, persia responded again
[14:21] <jcastro> ninkendo: weird, he's still in the company directory
[14:21] <snap-l> "Hit T to enable the toll-booth receiver"
[14:29] <tjagoda> I'm surprised by how little pairing my BB affects my battery though
[14:29] <tjagoda> I did expect that it would drain the device quic
[14:29] <tjagoda> quick
[14:30] <jrmy> morning
[14:30] <tjagoda> Hallo
[14:30] <jrmy> actually had a full breakfast today
[14:32] <jrmy> should be plenty when i want to walk to my friends house to pick up my $10
[14:32] <jrmy> sheesh.. you guys really dont talk
[14:33] <tjagoda> Hah
[14:33] <tjagoda> you missed it when I incited rick's rage earlier by loving BB
[14:33] <tjagoda> =P
[14:33] <jrmy> BB? as in a bb gun?
[14:34] <wolfger> Rant, rick_h__, rant!
[14:34] <tjagoda> BB as in Blackberry
[14:34] <rick_h__> wolfger: no, I don't have the arm strength to hold up the faboi mirror to fanboi's in denial this monday
[14:35] <jrmy> but nah.. i wouldnt be up right now if i didnt want to buy the subway deal they have right now
[14:35] <tjagoda> BS, it's just rage because I don't make out with Android =P
[14:35] <snap-l> tjagoda: Right, because your tongue is far down BB's throat. ;)
[14:35] <tjagoda> Never French your corporate overlords.
[14:35] <jrmy> phones..
[14:37] <jrmy> any of you have the bacon egg whatever it is at subway before?
[14:38] <tjagoda> You seem entirely to obsessed with this subway deal
[14:38] <jrmy> im probably the only one on this channel just uses the channel.. sigh* why do i have to have such a slow computer
[14:38] <jrmy> that would be a misunderstanding
[14:38] <jrmy> im just trying to get someoen to talk to me
[14:39] <jrmy> that*
[14:40] <jrmy> i hope i can get more ram soon.. i hate how slow it is with only 256
[14:40] <tjagoda> Most of us work/IRC at the same time
[14:40] <tjagoda> So we're slow in the response
[14:41] <jrmy> yeah so im probably the only one without a job
[14:41] <jrmy> ironically this is what i do when im bored and have nothing else to do
[14:42]  * jrmy shakes his head
[14:44] <jrmy> lol i should mess my computer up to give me something to do for a few hours
[14:44] <tjagoda> This procedure is not recommended.
[14:44] <jrmy> eh..
[14:46] <jrmy> i get to ask questions, google things and learn something in the process.. cant be that bad
[14:46] <_stink_> even better - learn to write code
[14:47] <jrmy> yeah if i actually take time to learn a language
[14:47] <jrmy> i gave up on python
[14:48] <tjagoda> Would probably be time better spent than what you're doing now. ;)
[14:48] <brousch> start with static web pages if python gives you problems
[14:48] <brousch> html, css, javascript
[14:48] <jrmy> probably.. but i also prefer sleeping at night, lol
[14:48] <tjagoda> You are unemployed
[14:49] <tjagoda> Adopt the coder/hacker sleep cycle
[14:49] <tjagoda> =P
[14:49] <brousch> also things like pictures and vector images
[14:50] <tjagoda> I have no idea what that means brousch
[14:50] <tjagoda> How do you learn pictures?
[14:50] <tjagoda> =(
[14:50] <jrmy> lol
[14:50] <brousch> photoshop/gimp
[14:50] <brousch> image manipulation
[14:50] <jrmy> right
[14:51] <tjagoda> ahh
[14:51] <brousch> inkscape and gimp for the freedom lovers
[14:52] <brousch> so make static web pages, sprinkle in javascript, learn more javascript, now you have some useful skills to build on
[14:54] <jrmy> my real production would be from making electronic devices not internet based things
[14:54] <jrmy> video games though i'd also maybe be interested in
[14:54] <brousch> go play with flash then
[14:54] <jrmy> which is why i chose python initially
[14:55] <brousch> although you can make games entirely using html5
[14:55] <brousch> i have no advice for making electronic devices
[14:59] <jrmy> its just the programming that i'd want to learn first the rest can be learned elsewhere
[15:02] <greg-g> jrmy: so, what is your plan for learning how to program? Do you need any book suggestions? They tend to be pretty good for these things. Also, have you checked out MIT OCW? This course is intro to programming, and it looks like it focuses on Python http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-00-introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming-fall-2008/ (you may find that people in this channel recommend python, as well
[15:05] <_stink_> IME, you just have to pick something - anything! - and friggin write it.
[15:05] <_stink_> anything.
[15:06] <brousch> _stink_ ++
[15:06] <_stink_> slog through it and learn on the fly.  if the end product sucks, leave it for a while, and try a new anything.
[15:06] <brousch> you have to have a project in mind and then do it
[15:06] <_stink_> eventually you'll do something useful for you.
[15:06] <_stink_> then you make it better.
[15:06] <brousch> reading books is more useful after you have some idea of how it works
[15:07] <_stink_> fosho
[15:07] <greg-g> word
[15:07] <snap-l> Yeah, I'd say the only way that I learn is via immersion
[15:08] <snap-l> Just start working on something in an environment that you know you can't break (ie: not production or mission critical)
[15:08] <snap-l> and read up on what you discover
[15:08] <snap-l> because you never know what you don't know until you don't know it. :)
[15:08] <_stink_> and don't worry about writing the 'app' you think will make you money or something.  write ANYTHING
[15:09] <snap-l> We've all been there, so we can give you pointers and guidance
[15:09] <_stink_> you will probably throw it away or totally rewrite it in a year when you know much better.
[15:11] <snap-l> Just don't be afraid, that's all
[15:12] <jrmy> back.. sorry i didnt set away
[15:12] <snap-l> heh
[15:13] <jrmy> yeah, well the thing with python there was so much to learn.. even on the basic level.. and with the mentality of a child with school for instance i didnt find much reason in learning some of the things if i didnt know if it would help for making a game
[15:13] <jrmy> seeing as with a language you can write just about anything
[15:14] <jrmy> i wonder which version of python is recommended now
[15:15] <brousch> 2.7
[15:15] <brousch> so start writing the game, and when you can't figure out how to do something, look it up on google or in a book
[15:15] <jrmy> hmm.. i was going to learn 2.6 when i started
[15:15] <brousch> not a big difference
[15:16] <jrmy> ffuu...
[15:16] <brousch> just stay away from 3 for now
[15:16] <_stink_> 2.6, 2.7, either one.
[15:17] <jrmy> i think 2.6 is still on my system.. does 2.7 have enough libraries?
[15:17] <jrmy> or if its called something else..
[15:17] <brousch> just use 2.6 then
[15:17] <brousch> it really doesn't matter at this point
[15:17] <jrmy> been over half a year since i used this computer
[15:18] <jrmy> oh yeah.. i remembered i figured out how to make an looping number
[15:18] <jrmy> just keeps going up and up.. or down if i wanted
[15:18] <jrmy> until you kill the program
[15:19] <jrmy> it was rather amusing.. totally forgot how to make the loop though
[15:19] <greg-g> good start, I remember writing the "Joe Sucks, Greg Rocks" and repeating that on the screen forever in BASIC back in elementary school
[15:19] <greg-g> (Joe was the kid who sat next to me)
[15:19] <jrmy> lol
[15:20] <jrmy> i think i remember it being if x>0 print or something
[15:20] <greg-g> luckily, finding out how to write "a loop" in python is just a google search away
[15:21] <jrmy> i actually had to think for a long time
[15:21] <jrmy> even after googling.. there really was nothing on loops
[15:21] <jrmy> it was cool i figured it out though
[15:22] <jrmy> even with very little do go on
[15:22] <greg-g> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/controlflow.html#for-statements
[15:22] <_stink_> greg-g: that is classic.
[15:22] <greg-g> http://diveintopython.org/file_handling/for_loops.html
[15:25] <jrmy> i think the only way how im really going to get into it.. is if i have info on how to make a specific thing.. not with instructions but to be taught all of the things i need to make that specific thing
[15:26] <greg-g> "not with instructions but to be taught" what do you mean by that?
[15:26] <jrmy> which could be alot.. but yeah, im pretty sure i'll move on to something else quite quickly if theres no spark of interest.. and interest continuing
[15:27] <jrmy> as in im not told exactly how to make it step by step
[15:27] <jrmy> instructions in other words
[15:44] <jrmy> maybe i should write a bot for a channel or something
[15:45] <wolfger> Sure. Something, anything. Pick a task, write a program to do it.
[15:45] <wolfger> just don't write an annoying channel bot and bring it in here :-)
[15:46] <jrmy> lol, of course.. i wouldnt do that (snickers)
[15:46] <wolfger> Write one for #ubuntu that asks "Is Natty out yet?" every 5 minutes on launch day. Nobody will ever know it's a bot. :-)
[15:46] <jrmy> nah im not that dumb. i liek talking on here.. getting banned would suck
[15:46] <jrmy> lol, ok
[15:59] <greg-g> now anyone can be a programmer! http://duiker101.tk/hackertyper/ (just start typing)
[16:01] <rick_h__> greg-g: crap, but I wanted python
[16:01] <tjagoda> rofl
[16:02] <wolfger> I want to start writing LOLcode
[16:03] <wolfger> I think it would be an awesome language to write a usable program in, just to say I did it. :-p
[16:03] <ColonelPanic001> I keep meaning to get a physical copy of the LOLCAT Bible
[16:04] <wolfger> ++
[16:04] <wolfger> and go door-to-door with it
[16:06] <jrmy> lol
[16:08] <snap-l> http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/4959481-452/are-the-blackberry-playbook-and-lg-g-slate-ready-to-take-on-ipad2.html
[16:09] <wolfger> "Good morning, miss. Have you received the word of the Ceiling Cat into your heart?"
[16:09] <jrmy> lol
[16:09] <jrmy> i'd have to laugh hard if someone actually walked up to my door and did that
[16:09] <tjagoda> I don't buy all those people saying you cant have a tablet without a 10 inch screen
[16:10] <tjagoda> I don't /want/ a 10-inch
[16:10] <jrmy> i prefer a "handheld"
[16:10] <tjagoda> The 7 inch is just right for me to be able to type with thumbs in portrait mode
[16:10] <jrmy> the ipad is too big
[16:10] <tjagoda> Yet big enough to make me not feel crimped for screen space
[16:11] <jrmy> i can agree that 7 inches is plenty
[16:11] <jrmy> ..dirty jokes... sheesh
[16:11] <jrmy> lol
[16:12]  * jrmy shakes his head
[16:12] <wolfger> I love the way that article basically says "these tablets suck because they aren't iPads" without actually mentioning any way in which the iPad is superior.
[16:13] <jrmy> ok.. im not goign to go on with making dirty jokes..
[16:13] <jrmy> hard to hold back...
[16:15] <tjagoda> wolfger: I have seen that theme in almost all of the tablet review I've read so far
[16:15] <tjagoda> Apple coats the devices in cocaine
[16:16] <brousch> no, it's more relaxing than cocaine
[16:16] <wolfger> LSD
[16:16] <brousch> it makes you feel good without exploding your heart
[16:16] <wolfger> absorbed through the skin, and they don't even realize they're tripping
[16:17] <jrmy> lol
[16:17] <jrmy> you guys...
[16:18] <brousch> pulverized marijuana?
[16:18] <wolfger> brousch: that's not mind-altering enough to explain people's opinions
[16:19] <wolfger> or so I've heard
[16:20] <greg-g> wolfger++
[16:26] <brousch> shut up, man. i can quit whenever i want to
[16:27] <jrmy> lol
[16:29]  * wolfger wonders if brousch is referring to his addiction to the iPad, or ???
[16:30] <brousch> apple products
[16:30] <brousch> though really i just use the laptops
[16:30] <wolfger> and here I thought snap-l was the fanboy...
[16:30] <brousch> i like to deflect the apple-love to him so i suffer less
[16:33] <tjagoda> I remember when jcastro was willing to kill people for switching Mac
[16:33] <tjagoda> Those were the days
[16:33] <jcastro> was?
[16:33] <tjagoda> Well
[16:33] <tjagoda> He at least threatens less publicly
[16:33] <tjagoda> =P
[16:34] <tjagoda> I need to find a job at canonical
[16:34] <tjagoda> Before I get promoted in charge of our sales office's IT
[16:34] <tjagoda> DO NOT WANT 40 more users
[16:35] <tjagoda> specifically becasue they're salesmen
[16:36] <brousch> my pants are tight http://www.androidcentral.com/asus-eeepad-transformer-review
[16:38] <tjagoda> There is no way that isn't fragile
[16:40] <brousch> i have a soft spot for eeepc. i still like my 901
[16:40] <tjagoda> Want to buy a system76 netbook?
[16:41] <tjagoda> It's still new
[16:41] <tjagoda> I don't need it now that I have the tablet
[16:42] <jrmy> should i hope i dont get the same interests as you guys in certain electronics?
[16:42] <jrmy> as for now i find the phones boring
[16:42] <brousch> smartphones are boring?
[16:42] <tjagoda> I am an IT guy
[16:42] <jrmy> and other related
[16:42] <tjagoda> I find no technology boring
[16:42] <jrmy> smartphones are meh to me
[16:42] <brousch> they are the future
[16:43] <jrmy> i'd rather own a ds
[16:43] <brousch> if they bore you, you are in the wrong field
[16:43] <tjagoda> Amen
[16:43] <tjagoda> Or you're really young
[16:43] <brousch> like 10 years old
[16:43] <jrmy> an iphone i suppose is neat
[16:43] <jrmy> but even then just to play games doesnt seem to be enough
[16:43] <wolfger> brousch: I did not know that you were Captain Tightpants...
[16:43] <tjagoda> If you buy a phone just to play games
[16:44] <jrmy> when its predocessors aka the handheld game systems are much better
[16:44] <tjagoda> or evaluate your phone purchase as such
[16:44] <tjagoda> you are doing it wrong
[16:44] <brousch> you've got the whole damn internet, all the information in the world, in your pocket available at all times from anywhere.
[16:44] <jrmy> well what else is there besides its actual use, talking?
[16:44] <brousch> talking is for old people
[16:44] <brousch> it is a computer in your pants
[16:45] <jrmy> oh wow i can surf the internet on my phone.. big deal
[16:45] <tjagoda> ..why do you use Linux?
[16:45] <jrmy> its not a laptop.. so i dont care
[16:45] <brousch> my phone has a keyboard, wifi, and applications. it's a tiny laptop
[16:45] <tjagoda> Because I get the feeling that your only interest in electronics is gaming
[16:45] <tjagoda> and Linux is not conducive to gaming
[16:45] <jrmy> yet to figure it out.. but currently because i have no other choice in an os
[16:46] <tjagoda> Ah
[16:46] <tjagoda> That would explain a bit then
[16:46] <jrmy> linux is free
[16:47] <jrmy> i do liek the idea of a mobile computer but a phone is not enough for me
[16:48] <brousch> the phone is just to keep the old people happy. i talk like 15 minutes/mo
[16:48] <jrmy> besides im annoyed when i have to use a keyboard that is too small for my fingers
[16:49] <brousch> try one of the alternative soft keyboards
[16:50] <tjagoda> I have using my phone as a phone
[16:50] <tjagoda> hate*
[16:50] <tjagoda> Talking is so last century.
[16:50] <jrmy> also i cant use it to record music
[16:51] <jrmy> so once more not as useful to me
[16:51] <jrmy> and im not using spelled backwards scam
[16:51] <jrmy> lol
[16:52] <brousch> i record videos and sound with my phone
[16:52] <jrmy> hows quality?
[16:52] <brousch> good enough for me
[16:52] <jrmy> can you get at least 41khz?
[16:52] <jrmy> sound wise
[16:52] <brousch> i have no idea
[16:53] <tjagoda> Your phone is not a laptop
[16:53] <tjagoda> it isn't meant to replace a laptop
[16:53] <tjagoda> its meant to supplement a laptop
[16:53] <tjagoda> your technological viewpoint is incorrect
[16:53] <tjagoda> =P
[16:53] <rick_h__> then what's a tablet :P
[16:53] <jrmy> supplement eh?
[16:54] <tjagoda> A tablet gets closer to laptop replacement, but I personally still see it as a supplement
[16:54] <jrmy> whats the point when my laptop's battery can last just as long as my phone?
[16:54] <jrmy> well netbook in this case
[16:54] <tjagoda> I don't have to wait 5 minutes and require a table to use my phone
[16:55] <jrmy> seeing as a smaller netbook may be the choice
[16:55] <wolfger> a tablet is an oversized smartphone
[16:55] <wolfger> or a netbook without a keyboard, depending on your point of view
[16:55] <krondor> phone/tablet w/ microhdmi dock support + bluetooth keyboard / mouse + vnc/rdp or vdi == no laptop needed. microhdmi not even needed in the larger screen real estate of a tablet I guess..
[16:55] <jrmy> do suppose some laptops take 5mins to start up.. rather a long time imo
[16:56] <wolfger> I put netbooks, the current generation of tablets, and smart phones all into one category
[16:56] <wolfger> laptops and desktops (i.e. "real computers") into another
[16:57] <jrmy> well wehat do you guys use netbooks/phones/tablets for?
[16:57] <tjagoda> My tablet replaces the place my netbook had in my technology lineup
[16:57] <jrmy> what*
[16:57] <tjagoda> I use my tablet for when I want to be mobile but still able to browse easily
[16:58] <tjagoda> My phone is always with me, and does 90% of my emailing and tweeting
[16:58] <jrmy> specifically speaking
[16:58] <tjagoda> and occasional surfing when I need to look something up
[16:58] <tjagoda> Laptop is used when I need to seriously work somewhere mobile, and know I'll need the keyboard/mouse interface
[16:58] <tjagoda> Desktop is only used for gaming
[16:58] <jrmy> am i shunned for liking to use an old schhol book called a dictionary?
[16:59] <wolfger> yes
[16:59] <tjagoda> I have a dictionary in my phone
[16:59] <tjagoda> along with the entire internet
[16:59] <jrmy> ah.. but you guys forget the fun in using a dictionary
[16:59] <tjagoda> paper is SO LAST CENTURY
[16:59] <wolfger> paper versions of dictionaries get outdated too quickly, and/or are not complete enough
[16:59] <jrmy> you even learn more words when you look for your word
[17:00] <jrmy> guess im oldschool irnoically
[17:00] <brousch> i like to use a thesaurus instead of a dictionary. then i learn new words as i look for my word, and can quickly find a better word
[17:00] <tjagoda> Yeah, if I need more words I use a thesaurus
[17:00] <tjagoda> which is, you know, what it's meant for..
[17:00] <wolfger> When I was growing up, my family had an unabridged dictionary. That sucker was HUGE.
[17:00] <brousch> http://thesaurus.com/
[17:00] <wolfger> and the language has grown.
[17:00] <tjagoda> I challenge you to carry around the OED
[17:01] <tjagoda> =P
[17:01] <wolfger> but the dictionaries you buy at the local bookstore are smaller than some novels
[17:01] <wolfger> I use a page-a-day calendar to teach me words I didn't already know :-)
[17:02] <wolfger> speaking of which, I need to find that when I get home. It's gone missing :-(
[17:02] <jrmy> oh and on the note of why i use linux i kinda liek the look and feel kinda a change of pace
[17:04] <tjagoda> Don't you lie
[17:04] <tjagoda> You'd be on windows if you had a copy
[17:04] <tjagoda> =P
[17:04] <wolfger> LOL
[17:05] <wolfger> tjagoda: windows fanboy
[17:05] <tjagoda> So much irony there
[17:05] <jrmy> i also enjoy using a shell
[17:05] <tjagoda> Says this chair of an Open Source convention
[17:06] <jrmy> well seeing as games are the only reason i use windows and i cant afford new games theres not much reason to use windows
[17:06] <wolfger> Why I prefer Linux: Stability, cost, availability of kick-ass apps, and control over my own computer. Why I prefer Windows: games.
[17:07] <jrmy> steam will eventually have more games for linux.. well last i knew
[17:07] <jrmy> unless that was just mac..
[17:07] <jrmy> hell, i dont remember now
[17:07] <tjagoda> Yeah
[17:07] <tjagoda> You're not on Ubuntu for stability
[17:07] <tjagoda> =P
[17:08] <tjagoda> Steam is not available on linux
[17:08] <jrmy> ok
[17:08] <jrmy> then yeah mac
[17:09] <tjagoda> jcastro!
[17:09] <tjagoda> Kill!
[17:09] <wolfger> tjagoda: au contraire. I am definitely on Ubuntu for stability (versus previous versions of Windows).
[17:09] <jrmy> and currently the only computer games i play are from valvesoft and maybe some bethseda games
[17:10] <jrmy> other then that there is minecraft and cube
[17:10] <wolfger> I only play Eve, and one of these days I will take enough time away from playing it to actually get it running under WINE
[17:10] <jrmy> which are both playable on linux
[17:10] <jrmy> i prefer console for other games
[17:11] <jrmy> , emulator or a good old handheld
[17:11] <jrmy> so why not use linux?
[17:11] <jrmy> i hate how microsoft runs things
[17:12] <jrmy> never liked IE after i found out about firefox
[17:12] <jrmy> again*
[17:13] <jrmy> infact theres some other linux programs i use
[17:13] <jrmy> free fits me much better about now
[17:15] <tjagoda> woflger: are you on 11.04?
[17:15] <tjagoda> You're not on 11.04 for stability
[17:15] <tjagoda> =P
[17:15] <jrmy> 11.04 now? yeah been awhile
[17:15] <tjagoda> I get the random crash back to login every now and again
[17:16] <jrmy> i'd liek to use maverick but it doesnt load my vidoe controller correctly
[17:16] <jrmy> or at least it didnt after the first stable release
[17:17] <jrmy> but my machine is old enough.. why upgrade anymore
[17:18] <tjagoda> That sentence makes my brain explode
[17:18] <tjagoda> I hope I am misunderstanding it
[17:18] <jrmy> and idkquote
[17:18] <jrmy> -and idk*
[17:19] <jrmy> which sentence?
[17:19] <tjagoda> Lunch nao
[17:38] <wolfger> tjagoda: I'm on 11.04 for some hope of a working wifi driver :-p
[17:50] <tjagoda> lol
[18:07] <snap-l> I want to uderstand which web page out there is telling people to use nusoap for PHP
[18:07] <snap-l> so I can ask for someone to take it down
[18:07] <rick_h__> hah
[18:13] <snap-l> so now I'm going to attempt to put together a PHP example
[18:13] <snap-l> wish me luck
[18:17] <snap-l> Ah, nice: PHP native class for handling SOAP calls can't do WS-Security
[18:17] <snap-l> http://stronger.epsi.pl/2009/06/24/php-soap-wsse/
[18:20] <jrwren> I've got an ASRock P45X3 Deluxe mobo and an MiniATX case that I don't want, both never used. Mobo does not fit into this case. anyone want?
[18:24] <tjagoda> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/04/psn-update-sony-isnt-sure-your-credit-card-data-is-safe.ars
[18:24] <tjagoda> Sony fails
[18:28] <wolfger> as usual
[18:30] <brousch> snap-l: have your php example call out to a python command
[18:31] <snap-l> brousch: Heh
[18:40] <waldo323> jrwren, is there cpu or ram with the mobo?
[18:42] <snap-l> and I punted, and just posted the python code, and a link to the PHP wsse auth example.
[18:43] <brousch> good plan. go down that road and you'd be posting examples in smalltalk and VB.NET soon
[18:46] <rick_h__> snap-l: boooo :P
[18:47] <rick_h__> come on, surely you can whip up a command line friendly version that's php 5.0, 5.1, and 5.3 compat
[18:48] <snap-l> rick_h__: I only target PHP6
[18:48] <rick_h__> doh
[18:49] <snap-l> since that's what the bookstore said was the new hotness
[18:50] <snap-l> I'm a little disappointed (note: not surprised) that PHP Soap doesn't support WSSE auth
[19:13] <snap-l> Now that JoDee has a smartphone with Google Calendar, she's adminishing me for not putting things on the calendar
[19:13] <rick_h__> lol
[19:13] <snap-l> wheras before she barely used it
[19:13] <rick_h__> we do that all the time
[19:13] <rick_h__> "I have a ladies night coming up" "Is it on the calendar? I don't recall seeing that!"
[19:13] <rick_h__> or the reverse "I'm off to ladies night, make sure michael gets his meds"
[19:14]  * rick_h__ checking calendar now that it's too late
[19:14] <snap-l> rick_h__: Yeah, well before I was the anal one
[19:14] <snap-l> now that she's using her phone, she's becoming just as anal.
[19:15] <rick_h__> <3 google calendar
[19:15] <rick_h__> especially on the phone
[19:15] <rick_h__> I'll schedule my next dentist appt because I just put it on there and it's done
[19:20] <rick_h__> krondor: good timing, as I sit here trying to get the latest Cyanogen on my phone
[19:22] <krondor> rick_h__:  lol, yeah it was kind of rapid.  I was actually not expecting anyone to want to meet till post penguicon.
[19:22] <rick_h__> strike while the iron's hot
[19:23] <wolfger> that's the motto of the steelworkers union...
[19:26] <jrwren> waldo323: no cpu or ram with mobo
[19:49] <snap-l> Best review of Fluxx ever: I hate this game. I've actually played a game with a drunk who was ABSENT FROM THE ROOM for most of the game - and he still won. It's that frakin' random.
[19:51] <wolfger> Heh
[19:51] <wolfger> gotta love it
[20:07] <snap-l> Wow: http://blogs.perl.org/users/fibo/2011/04/every-perl-module-needs-a-test-file.html#comment-22597
[20:14] <snap-l> God, Verizon gives you a separate sheet to understanding your bill
[20:15] <snap-l> "In this section, a mommy phone carrier and a daddy data plan love each other very much"
[20:15] <rick_h__> lol, awesome
[20:18] <rick_h__> snap-l: I love that comment: Starting your post with "I eat paste..." doesn't really help.
[20:20] <snap-l> This is the context: http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2011/04/civility-starts-with-me.html
[20:20] <snap-l> Apparently there's cantankerous dicks in the Perl community
[20:20] <snap-l> who knew?
[20:26] <snap-l> I'm a bad boy
[20:27] <snap-l> Gib asked if the board meeting was still on, and Jim McQuillan said yeah, didn't you get the meeting notice? I replied "Yeah, I got it. Maybe Juno ate it. ;)"
[20:28] <rick_h__> oooh
[20:28] <rick_h__> burn
[20:29] <snap-l> Well, seriously though, it's 2011, and the world has moved away from dial-up e-mail
[20:30] <rick_h__> http://www.comicsanscriminal.com/
[20:31] <snap-l> rick_h__: Nice.
[20:42] <snap-l> jcastro: I think I see what your problem is with identi.ca
[20:42] <snap-l> a) You have auto-subscribe turned on
[20:42] <snap-l> b) You're subscribed to fabsh
[20:43] <snap-l> c) You're in the ubuntu group.
[20:43] <jcastro> hah
[20:43] <jcastro> if you think that's the only thing wrong with identi.ca
[20:43] <snap-l> Too many spammers join the ubuntu group
[20:43] <jcastro> are people still even on there?
[20:43] <jcastro> I haven't been on there like in 2 years
[20:44] <snap-l> "I just got a tasty sandwich from the fridge !debian !ubuntu !perl"
[20:44] <snap-l> jcastro: There's still people on identi.ca
[20:44] <snap-l> interesting people at times.
[21:14] <greg-g> jcastro: lots of good people, actually :/
[21:14] <jcastro> who is on there that I can't get on twitter?
[21:14] <jcastro> oh, brad kuhn.
[21:14] <jcastro> right.
[21:15] <greg-g> mike linksvayer only sometimes posts to twitter
[21:15] <greg-g> chris webber (great CC guy)
[21:15] <greg-g> lmorchard has conversations with people on identi.ca but not twitter
[21:16] <greg-g> that's just the last 7 minutes or so of my stream
[21:16] <greg-g> clarification, sometimes lmorchard has conversations on identi.ca instead of twitter
[21:16] <greg-g> depending on where the reply comes from, of course
[21:17] <greg-g> my buddy Pete from Minneapolis ;)
[21:17] <jrwren> pythonista gurus, any pointers on parsing a JSON style date. this one is from facebook
[21:18] <rick_h__> dateutils
[21:19] <rick_h__> if you can't just do strptime
[21:19] <rick_h__> for a given known format
[21:22] <jrwren> 2011-04-21T20:17:10+0000
[21:22] <jrwren> datetime.strptime(status['created_time'], '%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%S%z')  but the %z seems to not work.
[21:22] <jrwren> looking for dateutils.
[21:23] <rick_h__> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-dateutil/1.5
[21:23] <rick_h__> it's the great auto date parser of python land
[21:23] <jrwren> ty
[21:25] <jrwren> http://wiki.python.org/moin/WorkingWithTime  even says "there is no known workaround"
[21:26] <rick_h__> right, but that mentions datetime in 2.3
[21:26] <rick_h__> sounds out of date to me
[21:27] <rick_h__> if you know it's ISO 8601: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/isodate/0.4.0 ?
[21:28] <rick_h__> no release for a while on that one though
[21:29] <rick_h__> I guess the hard way would just be to regex off the timezone off the end and parse the datetime + timedelta(xxxhours)
[21:31] <jrwren> i think django might ship with dateutil, so it should be just a matter of importing
[21:32] <rick_h__> yea, if it does it then cool. It's really common
[21:32] <rick_h__> but is separate
[21:33] <rick_h__> jrwren:  https://github.com/toastdriven/django-tastypie/issues/118
[21:34] <rick_h__> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pytz/2011e not sure if that does it
[21:36] <snap-l> chromatic also uses identi.ca
[21:36] <jrwren> ty
[21:48] <smoser> i thought rick_h__ was anti django. suprosed to see links from him with those dirty letters in them.
[22:04] <jrwren> I think rick_h__ is just strongly pro-other solutions, whcih I am too, but some people use django
[22:07] <snap-l> not to put words in rick_h__'s mouth, but I think his big problem is people using things without being too critical of why they're using it
[22:08] <snap-l> if Django fits your needs to a T, then by all means use it
[22:08] <snap-l> but Django is very tightly coupled, so if you want to remove pieces, it becomes problematic, and the whole reason to use quickly deteriorates.
[22:10] <snap-l> http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/braid-soundtrack/
[22:10] <snap-l> Man, I knew I'd heard the music from Braid elsewhere.
[23:58] <rick_h__> jrwren: snap-l my problem with django is that people go nuts like it's the best thing when it fails to be the best in any category of the stack
[23:59] <rick_h__> orm, tempaltes, route dispatch, testing, wsgi-friendliness, it's not the best at anything
[23:59] <rick_h__> but because it tells people "do it this way, don't think too much and you'll be happy" people go gaga over it
[23:59] <rick_h__> basically :)