[08:47] <duanedesign> morning all
[08:52] <duanedesign> rye:
[08:53] <duanedesign> rye: didn't you test the speed throttling resently? Was that on Maverick?
[10:32] <karni> Good day!
[11:23] <duanedesign> hello karni
[11:23] <karni> hi duanedesign ! :)
[11:25] <duanedesign> karni: do you read Ubuntu Planet?
[11:25] <karni> duanedesign: occasionaly. I should do that more often. I assume there's been something interesting :)?
[11:25] <duanedesign> jcastro did a nice blog post on Ubuntu One streaming
[11:26] <duanedesign> karni: he went on a road trip and used the U1 streaming service for music. overall he had a great experience it sounds like
[11:26] <karni> duanedesign: that I did read on *his* blog ^ ^ yes! awesome
[11:27] <duanedesign> what version of Ubuntu are you using?
[11:28] <duanedesign> another bug report about throttling not working :\
[11:29] <duanedesign> i have not set up a Maverick VM yet since i upgraded to Natty
[11:29] <karni> duanedesign: I'm on 10.04 with broken U1 (long story). about the throttling - there's been an issue about the implementation and how twisted handles I/O
[11:30] <duanedesign> ahh
[11:30] <karni> duanedesign: on my last build of the Android app, I implemented it the other way around - it *first* waited as long as it should, ant *then* wrote/read data. :)
[11:30] <duanedesign> :)
[11:30] <duanedesign> so their is a master bug for this?
[11:31] <karni> duanedesign: I'm 99.5% sure there is, yes.
[11:31] <duanedesign> cool, thanks
[11:32] <karni> duanedesign: sure, np :)
[12:25] <nessita> hello world!
[12:26] <karni>  \n
[12:26] <nessita> :-)
[12:26] <karni> :D
[13:01] <apachelogger> nessita: ahoy ahoy, I apparently got the kdeui for ubuntu-sso working :D
[13:01] <nessita> apachelogger: that's great news!
[13:04] <apachelogger> nessita: we'd only need some runtime detection whether to use kde or gtk
[13:04] <apachelogger> that said, the module path is the same, except with kde instead of gtk ^^ ... ui_module='ubuntu_sso.kde.gui', ui_class='UbuntuSSOClientGUI',
[13:12] <nessita> apachelogger: right, so your kde class should query the dbus service with those params
[13:12] <nessita> you kde class -> I meant your kde implementation
[13:12] <nessita> :-)
[13:13] <apachelogger> nessita: I am thinking about syncdaemon here ... or really any API consumer that would want to have platform integrated appearance
[13:13] <apachelogger> i.e. make a sane default choice unless an application requests a specific ui
[13:14] <apachelogger> (actually I do not think an application should ever need to specify a particular ui)
[13:15] <nessita> apachelogger: I'm not sure I follow :-/
[13:19] <apachelogger> nessita: let's say I write an application that uses USSO, somewhere in my code I have something like ::: login_or_register_to_get_credentials("myApp", "http://example.com", "halp", 0) ::: what GUI will be used?
[13:20] <nessita> apachelogger: right, that is the old (deprecated) API. The recommended API since natty is: (looking link now)
[13:21] <nessita> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SingleSignOn/UbuntuSsoClient -> register(String app_name, Dict of {String, String} ui_settings), then:
[13:21] <nessita> Additionally, this 'ui_settings' can provide 2 extra keys to define which UI module and UI class should be used in case the service needs to open a graphical interface to the end user. These keys are: 'ui_class': the name of a class that lives within 'ui_module' and that accepts proper parameters (TODO: document parameters). An example of this class can be seen at ubuntu_sso.gtk.gui.UbuntuSSOClientGUI. 'ui_module': a string pointing to a python module tha
[13:24] <ralsina> goo morning ubuntuone!
[13:24] <apachelogger> nessita: how is that portable?
[13:24] <nessita> hi ralsina
[13:25] <nessita> apachelogger: you can make the dbus call so you use your own client, providing the module path and class name. This way you can provide a kde client or a wx client
[13:26] <apachelogger> why would I want to do that?
[13:27] <fagan> hey ralsina
[13:28] <ralsina> hi fagan
[13:28] <nessita> apachelogger: I'm not sure what you mean. But we designed this service having in mind the following: there is an underlying dbus service which is widget toolkit agnostic, and offers the SSO service. Since the SSO service may need to interact with the end user, when you call login, or register, you need to provide an UI
[13:28] <ralsina> apachelogger: on windows we have only a qt ui, for example
[13:28] <nessita> apachelogger: so, you can use this service with "any" UI you want (the UI has to behave in a particular manner)
[13:29] <fagan> im off today because its a holiday here but if you need anything just ping and ill get to it since on thursday I didnt have a lot to do
[13:29] <apachelogger> nessita: that is what I do not get, why would the API consumer want any UI
[13:29] <apachelogger> like explicitly
[13:29] <apachelogger> wouldn't it be much better to make a sane choice *for* the API consumer
[13:29] <ralsina> fagan: ok, no problem
[13:29] <nessita> apachelogger: what do you mean by "API" consumer? you as a kde dev or the end user?
[13:29] <apachelogger> the developer
[13:30] <fagan> ralsina: so if you finished some of the screens I can do up that testing thing for the designers and you can keep moving on them
[13:30] <nessita> apachelogger: well, the UI module and class is optional, and we have a sane default (the GTK UI)
[13:30] <ralsina> fagan: nope. Working on it now. Turns out my family wanted to see me on weekends. Who could have imagined that :-(
[13:30] <apachelogger> that is not the defintion of a sane default
[13:30] <fagan> ralsina: hah
[13:30] <apachelogger> a sane default is one that actually is sane
[13:31] <apachelogger> loading GTK libs in a KDE envrionment is not sane :P
[13:31] <apachelogger> (not unless necessary)
[13:32] <apachelogger> which is why I think that the logic within credentials ought to be changed around to actually run magic and make it absolutely unnecessary for the API consumer to provide any ui settings at all
[13:32] <ralsina> apachelogger: there is no KDE UI yet. So the sane default, right now is still gtk.
[13:32] <apachelogger> the API consumer would deploy its query, credentials.py looks for installed UIs, checks the envrionment it is executed in, makes a choice on what UI might be best suited
[13:33] <nessita> apachelogger: ah, I now see what you mean. Well, since we don't want to query what desktop are we in, we planned on resolving that by proviging 2 packages, one for the gtk UI and other for the kde UI, so the user has the choice to have the client he wants
[13:33] <nessita> apachelogger: we decided we don't want to make the decision ourselves
[13:34] <apachelogger> fair enough
[13:34] <apachelogger> nessita: in that case we'd need a change in credentials.py to allow for this ^^
[13:35] <nessita> apachelogger: care to be more specific? as far as I know, credentials.py is UI-agnostic enough
[13:35] <apachelogger> nessita: it defaults to GTK
[13:35] <nessita> apachelogger: right, but is only a string. The caller can override this as much as he needs.
[13:35] <nessita> is not like we're importing gtk modules
[13:37] <apachelogger> if you want to allow the user to switch the frontends depending on what package they got installed, you ought to change the default module to something like ubuntu_sso.default.gui
[13:37] <nessita> apachelogger: let me see the code, it's been a long time since I've been going thru it
[13:38] <apachelogger> then have the GTK ui split into a seperate package, link ubuntu_sso/gtk to ubuntu_sso/default and set it to provide ubuntu-sso-gui
[13:39] <apachelogger> that way there can be a KDE ui, or a Qt ui, or a WX ui, all conflicting, replacing and providing ubuntu-sso-gui and containing a link to ubuntu_sso/default
[13:39] <ralsina> apachelogger: but that way you can't use different uis depending on the session you are in. Even if we are not doing that now, we may do that in the future when there is more than one ui.
[13:39] <apachelogger> by conflicting, replacing and providing I mean the deb package relationships btw :)
[13:40] <ralsina> besides, I really need sso not to break before june ;-)
[13:40] <nessita> apachelogger: right, we want to be able to have both kde and gtk clients installed at the same time
[13:41] <nessita> ralsina: yeah, we can't add this as a SRU, it will be work for O
[13:41] <apachelogger> ralsina: <nessita> apachelogger: we decided we don't want to make the decision ourselves
[13:41] <ralsina> nessita: I mean in trunk, I am working on the SSO qt ui there
[13:41] <apachelogger> I feel you should have a discussion
[13:41] <apachelogger> either the design goes one way or the other
[13:41] <ralsina> UDS is a great place for this discussion
[13:41] <nessita> apachelogger: why?
[13:42] <apachelogger> doing one and then the other smells like odd behavior change to me
[13:42] <nessita> apachelogger: what would be "one" and "other"? /me is lost
[13:43] <ralsina> apachelogger: we can add the desktop detection any time we want. Changing conflicts in packages is much more messy.
[13:43] <apachelogger> how is changing conflicts messy? :O
[13:43] <ralsina> So, we will probably discuss this a lot on UDS or full team sprint and work on a more clear direction on the O cycle
[13:44] <ralsina> apachelogger: because if we adda c onflict, we uninstall the qt ui (for example) and we can't tell you to install it back :-)
[13:44] <apachelogger> nessita: either you do not make the descision of what UI to use within ubuntu sso (thus only providing a default, explicitly recommending to the API consumer to provide their own UI for integration), or you do
[13:45] <apachelogger> ralsina: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-virtual
[13:45] <nessita> apachelogger: I disagree. You can have 2 binaries, ubuntu-ss-login-gtk and ubuntu-sso-login-kde, like usb-creator
[13:45] <nessita> and in this case, by binaries I mean services
[13:46] <apachelogger> what is the point of having a gui agnostic service then?
[13:49] <nessita> apachelogger: we have a layered design. The GUI-agnostic service is the one that knows all the SSO logic and that unifies all the calls to the SSO server. The UI-specific service, would be the one that knows how to call  the agnostic service with a specific UI. So the client apps can decide what UI-specific service use. For example, the U1 gtk control  panel, will call the gtk sso service, and a KDE control panel will call the kde sso client
[13:51] <nessita> apachelogger: what I mean is, the UI agnostic service is useful for devs like you. The UI specific service is useful for 3rd party apps that require desktop SSO auth
[13:52] <ralsina> nessita dobey thisfred alecu standup in 9'
[13:52] <thisfred> ack
[13:52] <nessita> oh! right
[13:54] <apachelogger> nessita: so you want internal decision making on what UI to use
[13:54] <apachelogger> there is absolutely no reason why a GTK CP would enforce a GTK SSO GUI
[13:56] <apachelogger> there is however for, who knows, a 3rd party skype client that does some magic file sharing via u1 and wants to provide an ultimate branding experience, in which case they would provide their own gui
[13:56] <apachelogger> but those are 2 different use cases and one does not affect the other at all
[13:56] <nessita> apachelogger: I'm pausing the chat since I need to write my stand up :-)
[13:57] <apachelogger> kk :)
[13:57] <dobey> hmm
[14:00] <thisfred> me
[14:00] <alecu> hello!
[14:01] <thisfred> morning alecu
[14:01] <nessita> me
[14:01] <nessita> alecu, dobey, thisfred, CardinalFang, ralsina?
[14:01] <thisfred> DONE: looked into and gave up on bug #762722 (for now) TODO: blueprints BLOCKED: no NEXT: nessita
[14:01] <ralsina> me
[14:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 762722 in ubuntuone-control-panel (and 1 other project) "Opening the Control Panel during sync removes progress indicator (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/762722
[14:02] <alecu> me
[14:02] <nessita> ralsina: are vds and CardinalFang coming back to dekstop+ or not yet?
[14:02] <ralsina> vds: not yet, CardinalFang: soonish
[14:03] <ralsina> nessita?
[14:03] <nessita> DONE: Easter holidays + a messy (but fun!) moving between homes.
[14:03] <nessita> TODO: catch up with emails after a 4-day weekend, catch up with bug reports, check that no fire needs to be put away, follow on bug #709494, chat with apachelogger re: ussoc multi-UI-design
[14:03] <nessita> BLOCKED: I'm living in a chaos :-), I may take a day off this Friday to try to put my home in order before traveling to Budapest.
[14:03] <nessita> NEXT: ralsina
[14:03] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 709494 in ubuntu-sso-client (Ubuntu Natty) (and 5 other projects) "[SRU] Missing user's name field (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 22)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/709494
[14:03] <ralsina> DONE: nothing (religious holidays!), TODO: SSO screens BLOCKED: not at all
[14:03] <ralsina> alecu!
[14:04] <alecu> DONE: thu and fri: holy-days.
[14:04] <alecu> TODO: catch up with mail, review roadmap, make blueprints
[14:04] <alecu> BLOCKED: no
[14:04] <ralsina> ooooooohhh blueprints. I have to do those too ;-)
[14:04]  * nessita too, but she needs some insipiration
[14:05] <thisfred> ralsina: alecu nessita dobey: should we have a blueprints planning mini meeting? So we can make sure we don't all do the same ones, or more likely skip half of them? ;)
[14:05] <dobey> oh, me
[14:05] <ralsina> thisfred: we can have that tomorrow, because mandel is off today
[14:05] <dobey> λ DONE: beyond-beyond-last-minute urgent fix upload, discussion, nightlies almost back to proper building, started on bug #768911
[14:05] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 768911 in banshee (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Natty (beta 2) Banshee Geo IP Detection Amazon Defaults to U.S. (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/768911
[14:05] <alecu> dobey, go!
[14:05] <dobey> λ TODO: finish #768911, finish nightlies fixes, maverick/lucid SRUs
[14:05] <dobey> λ BLCK: None.
[14:05] <thisfred> ralsina: sounds good
[14:06] <nessita> any closing comments?
[14:06] <dobey> thisfred: i'll make it easy for you and just won't do any :)
[14:07] <ralsina> hmmm be nice to each other, eat vegetables? :-)
[14:07] <ralsina> eom!
[14:07] <fagan> mmmmm vegtetables
[14:07] <dobey> mmm bacon
[14:08]  * fagan resisted the temptation to participate in the standup and say played some call of duty todo read a book..etc
[14:09] <ralsina> bacon should be a honorary vegetable
[14:09] <thisfred> I don't see why not, when ketchup is
[14:09] <dobey> ralsina: pigs are vegetables. have you ever tried talking to one? they just sit there in the mud.
[14:09] <thisfred> that wacky old Reagan
[14:10] <fagan> tomatos are only kinda vegetables
[14:10] <ralsina> I make home-made ketchup and use nothing but vegetables (and vinegar and sugar, which are vegetable products) ;-)
[14:10] <dobey> fagan: kinda like strawberries
[14:10] <fagan> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm strawberries
[14:10] <ralsina> fagan: tomatoes are fruits
[14:10] <thisfred> ralsina: in the 80s in the US when schools were required to serve vegetables in lunches, Reagan decided that ketchup would count as a vegetable...
[14:11] <fagan> ralsina: but they taste like vegetables
[14:11] <dobey> sugar isn't a vegetable product
[14:11] <fagan> dobey: well it is from sugar cane
[14:11] <ralsina> dobey: it's made out of sugar cane
[14:11] <thisfred> dobey: beet sugar us
[14:11] <thisfred> is
[14:11] <dobey> high fructose corn syrup is
[14:11] <fagan> oh then all sugar is vegetables that justifies me using so much sugar in my coffee
[14:12] <dobey> sugarcane is a grass
[14:12] <thisfred> transfat is a vegetable
[14:12] <fagan> dobey: ooooh
[14:12] <ralsina> grasses are vegetables.
[14:13] <ralsina> palm trees are grasses too, yet palm heart is a vegetable
[14:13] <thisfred> there are no real hard scientific definitions of either vegetable or fruit
[14:13] <ralsina> well, not mineral, not animal, not fungus? :-)
[14:13] <thisfred> much like toad vs. frog, incidentally
[14:14] <dobey> uhm
[14:17] <dobey> anyway
[14:17] <dobey> how do i make django.test.client.Client use a a specific IP as the REMOTE_ADDR?
[14:18] <alecu> nessita, ping
[14:18] <alecu> nessita, chipaca mentions "the user testing report by mpt" in a mail from last thursday... do we have a detailed report on that?
[14:18] <nessita> alecu: pong
[14:19] <nessita> alecu: isn't that what lucio sent to our mailing list?
[14:21] <CardinalFang> fagan, and corn is a grain, not veg.  Sorry.
[14:21] <alecu> nessita, yes, I found it. I remember it said it was "the summary", so I was wondering if you guys were referring to some other more detailed report on u1.
[14:22] <dobey> alecu: ask charline for specifics
[14:23] <nessita> alecu: I don't have any specifics, maybe Chipaca or cparrino have them? or, what dobey says
[14:23] <thisfred> alecu: the full report isn't written yet afaik
[14:23] <thisfred> alecu: mpt just sent the summary to ubuntu-devel
[14:23] <alecu> cool
[14:23] <dobey> in the big unity thread
[14:24] <thisfred> right. after which it promptly got /.ed
[14:25]  * alecu should join ubuntu-devel.
[14:25] <alecu> thanks all!
[14:29] <apachelogger> nessita: the dbus stuff in /credentials is deprecated?
[14:30] <nessita> apachelogger: yes sir (I'm finishing with some email to fully restart our conversation, sorry for the delay)
[14:31] <ralsina> alecu: we were all told to do that by our fearless leader like a month ago ;-)
[14:33] <apachelogger> nessita: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-sso-client/+bug/770269 :)
[14:33] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 770269 in ubuntu-sso-client (Ubuntu) "deprecated DBUS interfaces are not marked as deprecated (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[14:33] <alecu> ralsina, which one is the fearless one?
[14:34] <ralsina> alecu: chipaca
[14:34] <nessita> alecu: can we somehow mark a dbus API as deprecated?
[14:35] <alecu> nessita, I don't know of any other way to mark them as deprecated, other than doing so in the docs.
[14:36] <alecu> nessita, I'm checking anyway.
[14:36] <nessita> apachelogger: how would you suggest we mark the /credentials iface as deprecated?
[14:37] <apachelogger> nessita: I think you will have to annotate each method within as deprecated
[14:37] <dobey> nessita, alecu: there is no way, no. other than to respond with an error of "This is deprecated" over D-Bus, but that's not really helpful
[14:37]  * apachelogger has no idea how to do that in python ^^
[14:37] <nessita> dobey: right, specially since we don't want to break that API until natty
[14:37] <dobey> apachelogger: i think that just marks it in the docs though
[14:38]  * alecu is looking how to do that in python.
[14:38] <dobey> alecu: doc strings.
[14:38] <nessita> apachelogger: I'll see if I can add a deprecated warning to the code itself, but the dbus caller may never get to see that. The doc does mark that iface as deprecated though :-)
[14:39] <alecu> nessita, dobey: here's the link that apachelogger pasted: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-specification.html#introspection-format
[14:39] <apachelogger> dobey: as long as the introspection reflects deprecation that ought to be sufficient IMHO (for natty anyway)
[14:39] <nessita> ok, I'll prepare a branch for trunk then :-)
[14:39] <nessita> apachelogger: thanks for the pointer!
[14:39] <alecu> 'Method, interface, property, and signal elements may have "annotations"....''' -> org.freedesktop.DBus.Deprecated = true
[14:39] <apachelogger> yw
[14:40] <dobey> oh
[14:42] <alecu> nessita, what will you put in that branch?
[14:46] <ralsina> nessita: we can swap the weekend between summit and uds? Yay! ;-)
[14:46]  * ralsina really needs that manual
[14:47] <nessita> ralsina: that's what I've asked you before... :-)
[14:47] <nessita> ralsina: and you said yes!
[14:47] <ralsina> hmmm... you didn't mention WHAT day you were swapping. But yeah, I think it's ok. I approved it anyway
[14:48] <ralsina> I thought you were going to swap the travel day
[14:49] <nessita> ralsina: I'm travel on a weekday, so I don't think we can swap that
[14:49] <ralsina> oh, well, I'll ask those in the know later.
[14:50]  * ralsina goes away for 2 days and ends with 1200 emails. Cute.
[14:51] <alecu> nessita, dobey, apachelogger: there's no support at all in /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/dbus/service.py to add any "annotation" tags in the introspection xml. That means no "deprecated" tags for natty.
[14:52] <dobey> alecu: we really need to move away from dbus-python anyway
[14:52] <nessita> alecu: I was planning on updating the docstrings, at least, since apparently apachelogger used that as documentation for building his app
[14:52] <dobey> alecu: and for 11.04 we aren't doing anything else now anyway unless it's a bug fix.
[14:53] <dobey> 11.04 is done.
[14:53] <alecu> dobey, right, and no srus for this.
[14:54] <dobey> i have no idea how to use GDBus in Python though
[14:55] <alecu> dobey, why do we have to move away from dbus-python? is there anything else broken?
[14:56] <dobey> alecu: well, it is unmaintained, deprecated, and will no longer be updated
[14:57] <alecu> dobey, deprecated? do you mean the C library below it, or dbus-python itself?
[14:57] <dobey> alecu: it is replaced by GDBus, which is in libgio
[14:57] <dobey> alecu: both
[14:58] <dobey> alecu: pygtk/pygobject are also finished. we should move to using libraries via gobject-introspection
[15:00] <nessita> dobey: can you please make a master bug affecting u1cp, ussoc, and any other UI you can think of?
[15:02] <ralsina> so, we now start to migrate everthing to C-written-in-python, or you guys want to contribute to the annotations to make it pythonic?
[15:02] <dobey> nessita: probably a blueprint with lots of bugs, because we also need to do other stuff, like use GTK+ 3.x
[15:02] <dobey> ralsina: i don't understand that
[15:03] <nessita> dobey: wanna take over that?
[15:03] <ralsina> dobey: the raw instrospection-based bindings usually suck and do things like returning error codes
[15:04] <dobey> ralsina: they aren't bindings, and i haven't really tried using it from Python, but yes I know there are lots of issues with the gir bits, as i've tried to use some from vala
[15:05] <dobey> ralsina: if stuff is broken we just have to file bugs, and wait for fixes or work around or fix it ourselves, sadly :(
[15:05] <dobey> we're also doing some rather nasty things in some of our UI
[15:05] <ralsina> dobey: exactly. There is a mechanism to improve them for python (and other languages) by adding annotations, IIRC
[15:06] <apachelogger> nessita: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2011-April/005145.html
[15:07] <dobey> ralsina: depends. using from vala has more problems because it's a compiled language though, so it's not necessarily that method annotations are wrong, but there are higher level issues with the girs themselvs :(
[15:08] <ralsina> dobey: :-(
[15:08] <dobey> and don't even get me started on webkit :)
[15:09]  * fagan thought webkit was good 
[15:09] <ralsina> fagan: webkit *is* good
[15:09] <dobey> haha
[15:10] <ralsina> fagan: at least it's better than the alternatives. Specially now that there is none ;)
[15:10] <dobey> it's really good at causing me mass frustration
[15:10] <nessita> apachelogger: so, I can restart our conversation now. Let me read the last thing you said before stand up.
[15:10] <fagan> ralsina: sounds good anyway :)
[15:10] <fagan> and its the busiest upstream id say other than the kernel
[15:11] <nessita> apachelogger: I disagree with "there is absolutely no reason why a GTK CP would enforce a GTK SSO GUI", I think that a given UI has the right (obligation?) to choose the proper sso UI to match the look and feel
[15:13] <apachelogger> nessita: sure, if there is an explicit look and feel to match, such as theming of 3rd party applications
[15:14] <apachelogger> "system native" applications OTOH should strive for the greatest possible overall integration as their is no perceived look and feel other than the one of the environment
[15:14] <nessita> apachelogger: I'm not sure what you mean by "syste native" apps. Care to give an example?
[15:14] <apachelogger> say a user is using the GTK CP in a KDE envrionment for whatever reason there might be ... chances are the user will not know what GTK is and why it looks different
[15:15] <apachelogger> lets further assume that the GTK theme on the setup is not matching whatever the KDE envrionment is using
[15:15] <nessita> apachelogger: right, but in that scenario makes sense to present the user the GTK sso screen, for consistency sake
[15:15] <apachelogger> so the GTK CP is introducing an alien look and feel
[15:15] <apachelogger> applying that to the SSO as well does not make it a more wholesome look and feel
[15:15] <apachelogger> it only makes more things appear alien
[15:16] <apachelogger> nessita: 2 times bad consistency still doesnt make good consistency though :D
[15:17] <nessita> apachelogger: jeje. But the SSO screen is (ideally) made to be transient for the caller window, so from my POV is better to show a consistent look and feel between the CP and the SSO then showing those 2 as alien between eachother. But I know this is a subjective opinion, and others my agree with you
[15:18] <apachelogger> nessita: ultimately I believe you should go ask the design team
[15:18] <apachelogger> they surely will know best anyway :)
[15:18] <nessita> apachelogger: I agree
[15:21] <nessita> apachelogger: I will make a note to talk with mpt or someone else from the design team. Are you attending to UDS?
[15:22] <apachelogger> yep
[15:22] <nessita> apachelogger: please ping me about this
[15:22] <apachelogger> aye
[15:23]  * alecu needs to be away for 30 minutes
[15:23] <alecu> over and out.
[15:29]  * nessita reboots after update
[15:49] <nessita> thisfred: ping
[15:49] <thisfred> nessita: pong
[15:49] <nessita> thisfred: you aware of bug #768576?
[15:49] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 768576 in desktopcouch (Ubuntu) "desktopcouch keeps becoming zombie (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/768576
[15:50] <thisfred> nessita: not of this specific one no, but we have seen one of the d-c processes turn zombie before. I thought chad worked on that during the sprint though.
[15:50] <thisfred> nessita: this user seems to have problems with multiple unrelated processes though
[15:51] <nessita> thisfred: can you confirm is this is the known issue?
[15:51] <nessita> (please)
[15:51] <thisfred> yeah I'll look if there is a master bug
[15:52] <nessita> thanks!
[15:52] <nessita> dobey: when you have a spare moment, would you please share your thoughts on bug #768738?
[15:52] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 768738 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in g_str_hash() (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/768738
[15:56] <nessita> dobey: and also, does bug #769073 makes sense to you?
[15:56] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 769073 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) "package libsyncdaemon-1.0-1 1.6.1-0ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: ошибка записи в «<стандартный вывод>»: Победа (affects: 1) (dups: 3) (heat: 24)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769073
[15:56] <nessita> (error message was translated by rye)
[16:00] <dobey> no, it looks like a fluke on that user's system. maybe something happened in dpkg itself, but doesn't seem like an ubuntuone issue
[16:01] <thisfred> CardinalFang__: we never did diagnose the the zombie desktopcouch-service process, right? I still see it.
[16:02] <CardinalFang__> thisfred, I found a problem with the parent killing children processes, but not a child dying a the parent not being there to wait() and let the kernel remove that zombie.
[16:03] <dobey> nessita: and the first is a dup as per the one comment on it, i believe
[16:04] <dobey> nessita: and in bug #680968 it makes no sense to me why the code is even trying to deal with non-local paths
[16:04] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 680968 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in g_str_hash() [ubuntuone_nautilus_observed_file_unref] (affects: 16) (dups: 14) (heat: 69)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/680968
[16:04] <thisfred> CardinalFang__: for me it's pretty reliable: boot into natty, and after a minute or so I see 3 d-c-service processes, one of which zombified
[16:05] <CardinalFang__> thisfred, weeeeeeird.  Not here.
[16:05] <thisfred> dobey had the same I believe?
[16:06] <nessita> dobey: right, the last bug you linked has several dupes, so seems like somehow we're messin that up :-/
[16:06] <nessita> messing*
[16:06] <ralsina> there is a known problem with wait() and zombie children in python, which I can't really remember
[16:06] <dobey> nessita: yeah, so i guess we need to fix it soon
[16:07] <dobey> CardinalFang__: i'd seen that before as well, yes
[16:08] <ralsina> One reason for those was that the processes are writing something to stdout/stderr and noone was reading that.
[16:08] <ralsina> at least that's the most common reason for python zombies when using popen or subprocess
[16:08] <thisfred> that sounds like it may be a good place to start looking
[16:09] <thisfred> anyway, this guy is claiming it's making his whole system freeze, which I think we can safely say is probably not the case
[16:09] <ralsina> yeah, zombies don't do that
[16:09] <dobey> ralsina: this is using fork()
[16:10] <ralsina> dobey: hmmmm that's trickier.
[16:10] <dobey> thisfred: yeah, if my system froze because of desktopcouch, yall would be hearing about it fo sho.
[16:10] <thisfred> dobey:  I know, you're our canary :P
[16:10] <dobey> ralsina: yeah, subprocess issues would be easy peasy :)
[16:11] <ralsina> anyway, it's the same principle. A zombie is there because it's dead and the parent has not called wait() yet.
[16:12] <ralsina> should be fixable by handling SIGCHLD
[16:13] <ralsina> or setting SA_NOCLDWAIT
[16:15] <thisfred> CardinalFang__: bug #768576 assigned to you. I couldn't find another master bug about the zombie processes, so this is it from now on.
[16:15] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 768576 in desktopcouch (Ubuntu) "desktopcouch keeps becoming zombie (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/768576
[16:20] <CardinalFang__> thisfred, ah, I expect a SRU on day 1 of Natty.  Fun.
[16:20] <thisfred> CardinalFang__: I'm looking at the code now, maybe I can figure it out myself, but I don't hold super great hopes
[16:21] <CardinalFang__> thisfred, let me push up this branch I have for child processes.
[16:27] <dobey> lunch, bbiab
[16:28] <nessita> lunch! what a great idea
[16:28] <CardinalFang__> thisfred, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~cmiller/desktopcouch/service-exits-properly/+merge/58964
[16:29] <CardinalFang__> thisfred, not about a child exiting.  Only when parent is exiting.  Doesn't address Zombie state at all, I think.
[16:31] <thisfred> right, good to have though
[16:31] <thisfred> CardinalFang__: my suspicion about the zombie child is that it's the migration one, (that's the only one that's supposed to stop at some point right?)
[16:32] <thisfred> Not sure why it would zombie rather than exit in some cases and not others.
[16:33] <CardinalFang__> thisfred, yes, it should sleep a minute, do something, and then exit.
[16:35] <ralsina> CardinalFang__: zoombies happen after they exit ;-)
[16:35] <ralsina> CardinalFang__: do you need to know the exit code of the child?
[16:36] <CardinalFang__> ralsina, right, I'm not overriding SIGCHLD or anything.  I don't need the value, no.
[16:36] <ralsina> then use sigaction and set SA_NOCLDWAIT
[16:37] <ralsina> that way zombies are impossible. Or supposed to be impossible.
[16:38] <ralsina> "SA_NOCLDWAIT
[16:38] <ralsina> If set, and sig equals SIGCHLD, child processes of the calling processes shall not be transformed into zombie processes when they terminate."
[16:41] <ralsina> or set SIGCHLD to handler SIG_IGN and the same thing should happen
[16:42] <ralsina> by default it should be SIG_IGN. Oh, well.
[16:43] <CardinalFang__> ralsina, Yeah, that's what bothers me.  I don't set the handler to anything, but I am in a gobject mainloop, so there may be some magic I don't know about.
[16:43] <ralsina> You can check what the handler is
[16:44] <ralsina> maybe someone else is setting it, yes
[16:47] <tuhl> I have problems with evo contacts in desktop couch
[16:47] <tuhl> I have 2600 contact in ubuntuone
[16:48] <tuhl> they have been synchronized to desktopchouch
[16:48] <tuhl> Evo shows a timeout
[16:50] <duanedesign> tuhl: so they show up in Couch but not Evolution?
[16:50] <tuhl> duanedesign: yes
[16:50] <tuhl> I see them all in the web browser
[16:52] <duanedesign> tuhl: can you try the steps under Killing and restarting Desktopcouch http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/desktopcouch/Documentation/Troubleshooting
[16:59] <tuhl> duanedesign: I restarted couchdb
[16:59] <tuhl> still same problems
[17:00] <tuhl> is there anybody using desktopcouch with more than 2500 entries?
[17:00] <duanedesign> ok
[17:00] <tuhl> is the evo adress book loading all contacts?
[17:00] <tuhl> into memory?
[17:01] <duanedesign> can you try: evolution --force-shutdown; /usr/lib/evolution/e-addressbook-factory
[17:01] <duanedesign> that might print a clue to the issue in the temrinal
[17:02] <duanedesign> tuhl: oh, what version of ubuntu?
[17:16] <tuhl> latest 11.04 beta
[17:16] <tuhl> all updates
[17:18] <tuhl> termintion of evo adr book and restart of evo does not help
[17:18] <duanedesign> did any  errors get printed to the terminal?
[17:19] <duanedesign> if you run: /usr/lib/evolution/e-addressbook-factory
[17:19] <duanedesign> and then open Evolution and click on the contacts
[17:22] <tuhl> ** (e-addressbook-factory:5819): DEBUG: Creating cache at /home/tuhl/.cache/evolution/addressbook/couchdb___127.0.0.1/http://127.0.0.1:58057/cache.xml
[17:23] <tuhl> (e-addressbook-factory:5819): Json-CRITICAL **: json_object_get_string_member: assertion `node != NULL' failed
[17:24] <tuhl> (e-addressbook-factory:5819): Json-CRITICAL **: json_object_get_string_member: assertion `node != NULL' failed
[17:24] <tuhl> book_view file uref
[17:24] <fagan> tuhl: coulf
[17:24] <fagan> could you use paste.ubuntu.com
[17:25] <fagan> I know it wasnt much but pasting tracebacks in irc is ugly
[17:28] <tuhl> http://paste.ubuntu.com/598789/
[17:28] <tuhl> the XML file which is generated in .cache contains all vcards
[17:30] <nessita> dobey: when you come back from lunch, would you help me with bug #765441? I know we ship DEBUG by default in nightlies, so I was wondering if we somehow leaked this setting to the official release
[17:30] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 765441 in ubuntuone-client "logging defaults to DEBUG in released version (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/765441
[17:31] <tuhl> the evo couchdb backend seems not to be very robust
[17:31] <tuhl> why does it generate a seperated XML file?
[17:31] <tuhl> it should query the couchdb directly
[17:34] <tuhl> I even would call it unsuable
[17:35] <dobey> nessita: hrmm, it should be automated but maybe someone broke it. i'll look at it
[17:35] <nessita> dobey: thanks!
[17:44] <duanedesign> tuhl: sorry for the delay. Been looking through bug reports. bug 727370 sounds similar to your issue. Probablly be best if you talked with rodrigo. I think he is on holiday today.
[17:44] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 727370 in evolution-couchdb (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Contacts not syncing with my computer (affects: 27) (dups: 16) (heat: 256)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727370
[17:44] <duanedesign> rye: might know something about it but i have not seen hime today either
[17:47] <CardinalFang> thisfred, of that patch, fixed up test to include it and attached bug.
[18:03] <tuhl> duanedesign: rodrig is  the core developer of the evo couch backend?
[18:05] <nessita> alecu: hey there, remember that priority High is used for important bugs affecting a lot of users. The scroll bar report, though it may be annoying for some users, is not a bug as in a breakage or inability to use the app, so I'm lowering the priority
[18:05] <alecu> nessita, great
[18:07] <duanedesign> tuhl: i know he has been wotking on it lately. If possible can you come back by tomorrow around this time? I am sure you can catch him then and we can get you more information about your bug.
[18:07] <duanedesign> hello alecu
[18:08] <alecu> hi duanedesign
[18:08] <tuhl> duanedesign: I will send him an e-mail aswell
[18:08] <duanedesign> tuhl: as soon as I see him I will mention it as well :)
[18:09] <tuhl> duanedesign: perhaps he knows me. I am a old friend of miguel :-)
[18:11] <nessita> ralsina: have you run the ussoc tests on natty lately? I'm just running them after weeks of not running them and they freeze from time to time
[18:11] <nessita> ralsina: and they take like 5x longer to run than before
[18:11] <ralsina> nessita: no, I haven't in the last few days
[18:12] <ralsina> nessita: is probably because of the changes to make them run well on windows, I suppose
[18:12] <nessita> ralsina: when you have a chance, can you please run the tests from latest trunk? to confirm is the code in trunk and not my install
[18:12] <ralsina> nessita: sure, will take me 1 hour or so
[18:12] <nessita> ralsina: thanks!
[18:22] <alecu> nessita, test_closing_main_window takes a lot
[18:22] <alecu> and test_captcha_image_is_removed_when_exiting
[18:23] <tuhl> one question to te overal design ob ubuntuone: why don' you use ONE sync technology for all objects?
[18:23] <alecu> and test_on_finish_close_button_clicked_closes_window
[18:24] <alecu> the last one takes a loooooot
[18:25] <alecu> nessita, seems like all the "close window" tests are taking a lot.
[18:25] <nessita> alecu: right, which "does not make sense" (in theory)
[18:25] <alecu> test_on_finish_close_button_clicked_closes_window takes a lot too
[18:25] <alecu> nessita, Ran 488 tests in 211.013s
[18:25] <alecu> so yes, it seems a lot slower.
[18:25] <alecu> anyway: lunch
[18:25] <nessita> alecu: is there any chance you fix the (nautilus:15186): Eel-WARNING **: GConf error?
[18:26] <nessita> alecu: thanks for the double check, I'll open a bug
[18:26] <alecu> nessita, I may try by faking a gconf-daemon in the test bus. I'll take a look.
[18:27] <nessita> alecu: thanks! need a bug #?
[18:27] <alecu> nessita, would you mind opening a bug for that.
[18:27] <alecu> nessita, yes, thanks
[18:27]  * nessita files
[18:32] <nessita> alecu-lunch: bug #770395
[18:32] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 770395 in ubuntu-sso-client "(nautilus:15186): Eel-WARNING **: GConf error when running tests (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770395
[18:42] <ralsina> nessita: the bug Alan is trying to explain is that the content should be narrwer so a horizontal scrollbar is not needed
[18:42] <nessita> ralsina: right, but we can't change that, not even we can ensure that (since the drawing  depends on GTK and the font size and dpi setting)
[18:43] <ralsina> nessita: ok, then :-)
[18:43] <nessita> ralsina: even if we redesign the tab for O, which I think we're doing, GTK may draw differently
[18:43] <nessita> ralsina: BTW, have the new wireframes at hand?
[18:43] <ralsina> nessita: we can always try to use elements with a maximum width. That may be easier on gtk3, I think.
[18:44] <ralsina> nessita: yes, let me find them for you
[18:45] <ralsina> nessita: I don't have the dashboard (former control panel) ones. Probably lisette does.
[18:45] <ralsina> but it's a holiday in the UK, so...
[18:51] <nessita> ralsina: ok, tomorrow I'll re ping
[18:53] <ralsina> nessita: ok
[18:54] <dobey> really, we should never show a scrollbar on anything that isn't a list
[18:55] <dobey> if the design means we need to add a scrollbar for arbitrary widgets, then the design probably needs rethought if it can't fit in the desired size for the design
[18:59] <nessita> dobey: thing is we have a design that does not require scrollbar on default font size and dpi setting, but we can't ensure it will fit any screen
[19:02] <dobey> nessita: and you never will be able to, because translations will always break it.
[19:03] <nessita> dobey: exactly. So I think I missed what your suggestion is :-)
[19:03] <dobey> nessita: the weird thing is that it's even broken on *MY* computers
[19:03] <dobey> nessita: my suggestion is to fix the design to not be dumb and broken and only work for the one person that designed it :)
[19:04] <nessita> dobey: currently, we have 2 issues: the service layout  is, by design, kinda wide. And, gtk.Labels behave terrible bad about autmatically resizing and using all the wide space they have available
[19:05] <nessita> I know Labels are improved in GTK3, so I'm looking forward removing several workarounds to make Labels expand to use the max width they can use (and this something generates undesired things)
[19:11] <ralsina> nessita: the tests for SSO do take a while. I get these which I don't remember from before: The name org.gnome.GConf was not provided by any .service files
[19:11] <nessita> ralsina: that's known, see bug #770395 (assigned to alecu, he will work on that soon)
[19:11] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 770395 in ubuntu-sso-client "(nautilus:15186): Eel-WARNING **: GConf error when running tests (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770395
[19:12] <dobey> have i ever mentioned how much i love it when firefox crashes?
[19:12] <nessita> ralsina: but see the numbers in bug #770393, 20 secs vs 130 secs :-(
[19:12] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 770393 in ubuntu-sso-client "Tests are slower than before (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770393
[19:12] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 20 in launchpad "Sort translatable packages by popcon popularity and nearness to completion (dups: 1)" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/20
[19:12] <ralsina> nessita: except when those errors are showing, the tests seem to go pretty fast
[19:13]  * ralsina got 361 seconds
[19:13] <dobey> rm -rf tests makes them run pretty fast
[19:13] <nessita> ralsina, alecu: you think is related?
[19:13] <ralsina> well, there is probably a timeout involved on that error
[19:14] <ralsina> oh, no there isn't
[19:14] <alecu> nessita, ralsina: I don't think it's related. Yet.
[19:14] <ralsina> it's a classical job for bisection ;-)
[19:15] <dobey> nessita: why would sso-client cause nautilus to emit warnings?
[19:16] <dobey> nessita: that makes no sense to me :)
[19:16] <dobey> nessita: i guess the tests are emitting a signal over real dbus?
[19:18] <ralsina> yes, it's the session's nautilus throwing those
[19:18] <ralsina> if you kill it first: no errors
[19:19] <ralsina> Correction! You do get them, from this process: nautilus --no-desktop /home/ralsina/canonical/ubuntu-sso-client/_trial_temp/tmp
[19:19] <ralsina> so the tests are starting nautilus. Could explain slowdown ;-)
[19:19] <nessita> dobey, ralsina: I'm kinda lost :-/
[19:19] <nessita> dobey: I know that we use GConf for something, alecu knows better
[19:20] <ralsina> nessita: I killed nautilus, and started running the tests. Suddenly nautilus is open in DISPLAY
[19:20] <nessita> argh?
[19:20] <nessita> alecu: ping
[19:20] <dobey> ralsina: even if you disable show_desktop in nautilus, it still runs :(
[19:20] <ralsina> oops. On DISPLAY 99, showing that folder :-)
[19:20] <alecu> nessita, pong
[19:21] <nessita> alecu: what was it that we use gconf in ussoc for?
[19:22] <ralsina> looks like when setting up the tests, a whole desktop is started
[19:23] <alecu> nessita, I'm not sure we are using gconf directly, but something wants to use it. I was guessing libsoup, but we don't use it on sso
[19:23] <dobey> ralsina: eh?
[19:23] <ralsina> dobey: well, I have a nautilus running on display 99 at least
[19:23] <nessita> alecu: ralsina is suggesting that the gconf warning may have to do with the test being slower. That and a nautilus warning
[19:23] <dobey> ralsina: display 99 is probably xnest?
[19:23] <dobey> ralsina: or xvfb rather
[19:24] <ralsina> dobey: it's xvfb, and it's the one used in the tests
[19:24] <alecu> nessita, we had gconf warnings before this issue, right?
[19:24] <dobey> ralsina: what else is running there?
[19:24] <ralsina> dobey: no idea how to find out, really
[19:24] <dobey> and holly crap why are there so many dbus daemons running on my computer
[19:24] <alecu> nessita, or the gconf warnings were on u1cp or u1-client?
[19:24]  * ralsina starts grepping in /proc
[19:25] <ralsina> apparently only dbus-daemon, nautilus and python have DISPLAY set to :99
[19:26] <ralsina> so not a whole desktop, at least. But there is something that's starting up nautilus.
[19:26] <dobey> ralsina: i wonder why it is starting nautilus there. that is weird
[19:26] <ralsina> dobey: agreed
[19:27] <dobey> ralsina: what folder was opened in it?
[19:27] <alecu> xdg? lazr.restfulclient?
[19:27] <ralsina> /home/ralsina/canonical/ubuntu-sso-client/_trial_temp/tmp
[19:27] <ralsina> which is its xdg-data, IIRC
[19:27] <dobey> ralsina: was opened, or that was the working dir?
[19:28] <ralsina> that's the command line: nautilus --no-desktop /home/ralsina/canonical/ubuntu-sso-client/_trial_temp/tmp
[19:28] <ralsina> so should be showing that
[19:28] <dobey> ah ok
[19:28] <dobey> that is very weird
[19:28] <dobey> especially from sso
[19:28] <fagan> oh you have a work folder I just put everything on my destkop
[19:28] <ralsina> at least should be easy to verify or dismiss as craziness from my VM
[19:29] <ralsina> fagan: I follow the document that tells you how to setup the development environment ;-)
[19:29] <fagan> ralsina: hah
[19:29] <ralsina> I kinda remember bugs about control panel starting nautilus, but not sso
[19:29] <ralsina> or maybe it was syncdaemon
[19:29] <dobey> if you really have projects, you need to organize them somewhere other than ~/
[19:30] <dobey> well sso i could see
[19:30] <dobey> err
[19:30] <dobey> cp i could see, i mean
[19:30] <dobey> since cp might try to test that clicking on the "open this folder" thing works
[19:30] <dobey> which seems totally silly
[19:30] <dobey> also an integration test
[19:32] <nessita> dobey: we test that but patching the gtk.uri_open (or whatever is called) function
[19:32] <nessita> dobey, ralsina: u1cp tests never open nautilus
[19:33] <ralsina> nessita: I meant a bug IRL. But I may be remembering wrong, of course :-)
[19:34] <nessita> ralsina, dobey: thing is that if we run the test suite in stable-1-0, all works fine and fast
[19:34] <nessita> using the same xfv
[19:34] <nessita> xvfb
[19:34] <ralsina> nessita: that's why you should do bisection and find where it changed
[19:34] <dobey> i don't know
[19:35] <dobey> just blame mandel since he's not here
[19:35] <nessita> ralsina: me? :-) I was planning on assigning the bug to mandel, since he has been adding tons of code lately
[19:35] <ralsina> nessita: mandel has a ton of things to do
[19:35] <ralsina> nessita: so if you can lend a hand with this, would be cool :-)
[19:36] <nessita> sure I can
[19:36] <nessita>  but first I would like the gconf issue out of the equation. alecu: what are your plans for today?
[19:37] <nessita> alecu: I'm asking since you said in the standup that you were tackling blueprints, and then we said we'll have a call tomorrow to talk about that
[19:37] <dobey> nessita: the eel issue or the other "gconf has no .service file" issue?
[19:37] <nessita> dobey: what do you mean with eel?
[19:38] <dobey> nessita: i mean the bug you filed and assigned to alecu with the Eel-WARNING from nautilus
[19:38] <ralsina> it's the same error: Eel-Warning from the nautilus process
[19:38] <dobey> ralsina: there are two gconf problems.
[19:38] <ralsina> (nautilus:18731): Eel-WARNING **: GConf error:
[19:38] <ralsina> dobey: oh, ok
[19:39] <nessita> dobey: can you please state that in the bug report? I didn't notice 2 errors
[19:39] <nessita> alecu: ^
[19:39] <ralsina> it does look like one to me, but hey, you the gnome guy ;-)
[19:39]  * nessita nods
[19:40] <alecu> nessita, I'm currently working on the gconf issue. I'm looking to see which tests are giving this error, and why.
[19:40] <nessita> alecu: awesome! :-)
[19:40] <dobey> well i think libsoup also results in the "not provided by any .service files" warning in the tests at some points as well
[19:41] <nessita> why are we using libsoup in ussoc? /me looks some more
[19:41] <dobey> nessita: uhm, for the REST API? webkit?
[19:41] <nessita> dobey: ah, maybe lazr uses it?
[19:42] <dobey> oh i don't think lazr uses libsoup, no
[19:42] <dobey> i thought sso was using libsoup
[19:42] <alecu> nessita, we are using libsoup for the rest api in u1cp
[19:42] <dobey> WHY CANT THERE BE ONLY ONE HTTP LIBRARY
[19:42] <dobey> sigh
[19:42] <nessita> alecu: but this is ussoc...
[19:42] <alecu> nessita, it's the only http client library that honors the gnome proxy settings.
[19:43] <nessita> alecu: right, but in ussoc we're not using libsoup
[19:43] <nessita> so why all the gconf issues?
[19:43] <alecu> nessita, yes, but you asked about libsoup
[19:43] <nessita> alecu: I've asked about libsoup in ussoc ;-)
[19:44] <alecu> nessita, we should be using libsoup in a future version of ussoc
[19:44] <dobey> nessita: asking about gconf is probably the wrong question in ssoc
[19:44] <nessita> dobey: what woudl be the right question :-)?
[19:44] <dobey> nessita: the real question is "WTF is starting nautilus?"
[19:45] <nessita> alecu: yes, but that is not related to the issue we're trying to debug
[19:45] <nessita> dobey: right, but is that related to the gconf warning or not?
[19:47] <dobey> nessita: well it is the cause of nautilus printing a gconf warning. the warning itself is a symptom of that
[19:47] <alecu> nessita, yes it's related. libeel is giving that warning, and it is only used by nautilus.
[19:48] <nessita> alecu: I think I'm confused. We have the gconf warning, someone mentioned it may be libsoup trying to access proxy settings, I've asked where in ussoc we use libsoup, since I know we're not using it and we should
[19:49] <nessita> alecu: and you say we should be using it, which is True, but not related (from my POV) to why we're getting gconf warnings plus nautilus eel warnings
[19:49] <ralsina> nessita: the eel warning about gconf comes from nautilus. AFA we know nautilus shouldn't be there :-)
[19:49] <ralsina> probably not libsoup.
[19:50] <nessita> ralsina: right, and I don't see the relationship with we needing to port our code in ussoc to libsoup (which is a nice thing to do, on a Friday :-))
[19:50] <dobey> i'm going to make a language pack, so that every weekday on my calendar is friday.
[19:52] <dobey> [dobey@lunatari:~]: date -R
[19:52] <dobey> Fri, 25 Apr 2011 14:51:18 -0400
[19:52] <dobey> nice, eh? :)
[19:52] <ralsina> well, we probably need to switch SSO to libsoup to finally support proxys
[19:52] <ralsina> so, it is not really a friday thing at all.
[19:53] <fagan> dobey: what does the name of your computer mean?
[19:53] <fagan> (lunatari)
[19:55] <dobey> fagan: it's one of the 3 moons in Dragonlance
[19:55] <fagan> dobey: hah so its really nerdy
[19:55] <dobey> yes
[19:55] <dobey> i should probably rename it though
[19:55] <fagan> I just call mine u for ubuntu and the computer number so 0 1 2 3..ec
[19:56] <fagan> or w for windows 0 1 2 3..etc
[19:56] <dobey> none of the hardware it was running on when i named it, is left
[19:56] <fagan> I added a graphics card but I want a better cpu
[19:56] <fagan> its a new computer though so its not too bad
[19:57] <fagan> I cant record screencasts though on it there is some weird jumpyness even on windows
[19:57] <fagan> :/
[19:57] <dobey> all my new computers i've been naming after the cousins in Katamari Damacy
[19:57]  * fagan doesnt even know what that is 
[19:58] <fagan> dobey: star trek?
[19:59] <fagan> (im a bad nerd)
[19:59] <dobey> no
[19:59]  * fagan googles
[19:59]  * ralsina will start namingcomputersafterthe names of cows stomachs
[19:59] <ralsina> in different languages, of course.
[19:59] <fagan> lol
[20:00] <dobey> you could name them all "computer" but in different languages
[20:00] <fagan> dobey: that would be interesting
[20:00] <ralsina> reticulum, cuajar, and so on.
[20:01] <dobey> ralsina: are you naming your computers after menu items at the parilla?
[20:01] <fagan> ordinateur
[20:01] <fagan> :)
[20:01] <ralsina> dobey: strangely enough, we don't eat actual stomach, but wedo eat the lining. Mondongo! (not a la parrilla, though)
[20:02] <fagan> sounds weird
[20:02] <dobey> lol
[20:02] <ralsina> fagan: and it looks like a yellow towel, but it's traditional. If you ever go to spain, ask for "Callos a la madrileña". Same thing.
[20:03] <fagan> ralsina: I went to spain and they had kinda english food
[20:03] <ralsina> fagan: well, they have things that are not sausages. You know, for variety ;-)
[20:03] <fagan> hah
[20:04] <dobey> mmm, spain
[20:04] <dobey> barcelona would be good for uds again
[20:04] <fagan> dobey: expensive though
[20:04] <ralsina> fagan: spain has many regional cuisines. It's not the same in madrid as in barcelona as in the vasque country.
[20:04] <dobey> or platform rally
[20:05] <fagan> ralsina: ah yeah I was in the south and it is tourist country so I presume the food is to suit us
[20:05] <dobey> barcelona wasn't really that expensive
[20:05] <ralsina> hahaha, could be :-)
[20:05] <dobey> not like it's london or anything
[20:05] <ralsina> cheaper than london is not hard!
[20:05]  * ralsina still weeps at 6 pounds for a subway two-way ticket
[20:05] <fagan> dobey: oh and it wouldnt be that fun for the english speakers in the team with all the spanish :)
[20:06]  * fagan heard a lot of spanish in london :D
[20:06] <dobey> eh?
[20:06] <fagan> dobey: yeah I dont speak any spanish
[20:06] <fagan> im learning starting with the curse words
[20:06] <ralsina> dobey: he was with manuel and I so we kinda lapsed into spanish every now and then.
[20:07] <fagan> hah "every now and then"
[20:07] <dobey> eh, i guess i'm just used to it
[20:07] <thisfred> claro
[20:07] <fagan> puta windows :DDD
[20:07] <dobey> but i've ween working around spanish speakers for 10 years
[20:07] <dobey> thisfred: haha
[20:08] <fagan> dobey: i worked a bit with a russian and some chinese but other than that nope
[20:08] <dobey> we should have a UDS in Tirana
[20:09] <fagan> dobey: id say there would be some people wanting UDS to move to asia or australia..etc
[20:09] <ralsina> I may be having a 1 day layoff in Riga, if you want me to scout non-traditional locations.
[20:09] <fagan> but it would cost a lot
[20:09] <dobey> fagan: asia and .au are way too expensive to get people to
[20:09] <fagan> dobey: yeah
[20:10] <fagan> but there are a few canonical people down under
[20:10] <fagan> if I remember right
[20:10] <ralsina> ok, gotta go pick the monster from school, then I have to take care of him. Will probably finish my day very late today.
[20:10] <dobey> yes
[20:10] <ralsina> See you all later/tomorrow.
[20:10] <fagan> ralsina: later
[20:10] <dobey> fagan: but it's cheaper to fly 10 australians to europe, than 200 others to australia :)
[20:11] <fagan> dobey: hah
[20:11] <fagan> dobey: depends on the jet /me looks at canonical one
[20:11] <dobey> fagan: i don't think RyanAir goes to Sydney
[20:11] <fagan> dobey: me neither
[20:12] <fagan> anyhow it looks like we are settling on specific places now
[20:12] <fagan> because we can get a deal on the locations
[20:13] <dobey> eh, anywhere in Tirana is a bargain
[20:14] <dobey> unless they switched to the euro, but i don't think so
[20:14] <fagan> dobey: the euro is cheap for me
[20:15] <dobey> nope, .al still uses Lek it seems
[20:15] <fagan> dobey: didnt they just join the eu?
[20:15] <fagan> if they did the euro is supposed to be brought in pretty soon after
[20:15] <CardinalFang> Many countries in the EU didn't join the EU Bank.
[20:16] <fagan> CardinalFang: but new joins have to take it
[20:16] <dobey> .al joined the .eu a long time ago
[20:16] <fagan> CardinalFang: and its really only the uk
[20:16] <CardinalFang> Sweden?
[20:16] <fagan> its the only big one anyway
[20:16] <fagan> CardinalFang: not in the eu
[20:16] <fagan> they have a deal with the eu but they arent in the union
[20:17] <nessita> dobey: when you have a chance, no rush at all, would you know what happened to this user in the last comment of bug #769633? I've seen a couple of bug report saying that there was an interruption for the install/upgrade of some of our packages
[20:17] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 769633 in ubuntuone-control-panel (Ubuntu) "Right-click menu for syncing with Ubuntu one is gone (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769633
[20:17] <fagan> oh they are
[20:18] <fagan> oh im getting sweden confused with norway
[20:18] <CardinalFang> They hate that.
[20:18] <dobey> nessita: no idea, it's weird. jdo just had -gnome missing too
[20:19] <dobey> norway? more like snoreway.
[20:19] <fagan> dobey: still some nice looking women in norway
[20:19] <fagan> much like sweden
[20:20] <dobey> oh, .al is a potential candidate, but hasn't joined, i guess
[20:21] <fagan> dobey: yeah they have to get their economy or crime rate sorted or something
[20:21] <fagan> much like the other candidates
[20:21] <fagan> and then when they join they get the euro...etc
[20:22] <fagan> (since all new countries have to take it)
[20:26] <dobey> except for the ones that don't
[20:27] <dobey> anyway, Tirana would be a cool place for UDS
[20:27] <dobey> or a rally
[20:27] <fagan> wouldnt we all need visas?
[20:28] <dobey> and i'd be the only person who could understand anything
[20:29] <fagan> dobey: then even more interesting we should have a rally in the west of ireland where they speak only irish
[20:31] <nessita> can I have a couple of reviews for https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu-sso-client/add-more-deprecation-messages/+merge/58983?
[20:31] <fagan> nessita: need a windows one?
[20:31] <nessita> fagan: not really... but thanks!
[20:32] <nessita> fagan: you can review the diff though :-)
[20:32] <fagan> its my day off but since you asked nicely
[20:32] <dobey> checking development series build... no
[20:32] <dobey> huh
[20:33] <fagan> nessita: looks good to me
[20:34] <fagan> +1
[20:34] <nessita> alecu: would you be able to do a second review?
[20:34] <dobey> sigh
[20:35] <alecu> nessita, looking
[20:35] <nessita> alecu: thanks!
[20:35] <thisfred> alecu I did it already
[20:36] <alecu> ok, cool
[20:37] <nessita> thisfred: thanks!
[20:37] <thisfred> np
[20:38] <dobey> wow
[20:38] <dobey> i can't believe this DEBUG log level thing didn't come up earlier
[20:38] <dobey> like, in maverick or lucid.
[20:39] <nessita> dobey: what was it?
[20:40] <dobey> nessita: it's because the logging.conf is being included in the tarball, and not getting rebuilt for some reason when ./configure is re-run; and i was using --enable-debug to do the distcheck to ensure that everything compiles correctly there
[20:40] <dobey> so easy fix i guess at least
[20:40] <nessita> I see
[20:40] <dobey> maybe something changed in automake so it's only a problem now
[20:40] <nessita> dobey: good catch!
[20:41] <nessita> dobey: I rephrased bug #769633 to keep track of u1-client-gnome being unsinstalled
[20:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 769633 in ubuntuone-control-panel (Ubuntu) "ubuntuone-client-gnome was uninstalled on update (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769633
[20:41] <fagan> I think I got that
[20:42] <dobey> i would really love to know *why* it was uninstalled
[20:42] <nessita> dobey: is there any info we can gather to diagnose that?
[20:42] <fagan> dobey: well knowing apt it could be a few things
[20:44] <dobey> nessita: i'm not sure if apt logs reasons anywhere, but it would be good to know when exactly it happened. a log with the remove action in it
[20:44] <fagan> dobey: it doesnt log the reasons
[20:44] <fagan> for definite
[20:45] <nessita> fagan: would you have any apt logs?
[20:46] <fagan> nessita: I think there is logs somewhere
[20:46] <fagan> but it wouldnt help diagnose it
[20:46] <dobey> fagan: if you got the same issue, your apt history.log might be useful. and maybe the term.log, from when it happened
[20:46] <dobey> fagan: sure it would
[20:46] <dobey> fagan: logs are in /var/log/apt/
[20:46] <fagan> ok ill just make sure which computer its on
[20:47] <fagan> it could be on this one or my desktop
[20:47] <dobey> fagan: if we know when it happened, we can try to reproduce the transaction, and examine it further
[20:47] <dobey> ie, what specific versions changed that caused it
[20:48] <fagan> ahh ok
[20:48] <fagan> im on it
[20:49] <fagan> oh it was my netbook
[20:49] <fagan> so ill grab the log
[20:49] <fagan> it may be pretty far down the list though it happened a few days ago
[20:50] <fagan> ill remove anything unimportant
[20:53] <fagan> dobey: my log doesnt have ubuntuone-client-gnome in the removed section of any of the changes
[20:53] <fagan> but id say that would be because the package did it itself or something
[20:53] <fagan> or another package did it
[20:54] <fagan> my last update of the package was 1.6.1-0ubuntu1
[20:55] <fagan> (32bit computer if it matters )
[20:55] <fagan> and that was when it was removed
[20:55] <dobey> uhm
[20:55] <dobey> that makes no sense
[20:55] <fagan> ill pastebin the entire thing
[20:56] <dobey> fagan: did you look in the gzipped logs too?
[20:56] <fagan> dobey: I only saw the history.log
[20:56] <fagan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/598904/
[20:56] <dobey> fagan: grep for it in term.log
[20:56] <fagan> sorry about the formatting
[20:57] <fagan> it was a dist-upgrade and that causes problems too
[21:03] <fagan> ill pastebin
[21:04] <fagan> dobey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/598905/
[21:04] <fagan> thats what I got out of grep
[21:07] <dobey> ok, that's weird
[21:08] <fagan> and there was no command other than dist-upgrade used
[21:08] <fagan> so it must have been something in the package
[21:08] <fagan> or some other package that asked for it to be removed
[21:10] <alecu> nessita, found it
[21:10] <alecu> nessita, test_navigation_requested_ignores_clicked_links is starting nautilus
[21:11] <alecu> nessita, by using webbrowser.open with an empty url
[21:11] <alecu> because the webbrowser module uses gnome-open, and gnome-open with an empty url starts nautilus
[21:11] <nessita> alecu: guh!
[21:12] <nessita> alecu: we should replace that with gtk.open_uri
[21:13] <alecu> nessita, not sure.
[21:13] <nessita> alecu: I was referring to the webbrowser.open call, I haven't checked the test yet
[21:13] <alecu> nessita, anyway, that explains a few of the nautilus error messages we've been seeing lately, but not the delays.
[21:14] <nessita> alecu: and you sure they are not related?
[21:14] <alecu> not yet
[21:14] <nessita> alecu: what I've debugged is that when running those slow tests in isolation, they run fast
[21:15] <alecu> nessita, I think we should mock webbrowser.open
[21:15]  * nessita looks the test
[21:15] <alecu> nessita, yes, they run fast, but I was intrigued that the count of tests that were ran was not the same as when running them together.
[21:16] <alecu> anyway, I'll try skipping this test.
[21:16] <nessita> alecu: sure, skip them. I still think we need to stop using webbrowser.open, and handle uris the same way we handle them in u1cp (using the gtk open function)
[21:16] <nessita> yes, we need to mock that in tests as well ;-)
[21:17] <alecu> nessita, the other thing I noticed is that pulseaudio is started... and probably webkit is doing that.
[21:18] <nessita> hum
[21:18] <nessita> commenting out webbrowser.open will remove the warnings but the same delays are still there
[21:20] <nessita> alecu: so the gconf warning and the nautilus warning was caused by the same issue?
[21:21] <dobey> nessita: the nautilus warning is the gconf warning, no?
[21:21] <alecu> nessita, in this case, yes, the gconf warnings were being printed by nautilus. And yes, the delays are still there.
[21:21] <nessita> dobey: you said we had 2 gconf issues
[21:22] <dobey> nessita: i thought someone pasted another warning earlier with the .service issue
[21:23] <nessita> ah. The full error I was getting  is detailed in bug #770395
[21:23] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 770395 in ubuntu-sso-client "(nautilus:15186): Eel-WARNING **: GConf error when running tests (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770395
[21:24] <dobey> nessita: right. i thought i saw another .service warning get pasted in irc, that looked like it could have been from libsoup. sorry
[21:24] <nessita> dobey: ah, ok, I see where all the confusion came from (for both of us)
[21:32] <dobey> brb, i gotta go drop something in the post
[21:48] <dobey> hmm
[21:53] <alecu> nessita: found the cause of the slowness. I have not found how to solve it yet.
[21:54] <nessita> alecu: WOOT? wanna brainstorm?
[21:54]  * nessita is debugging translation issues
[21:54] <alecu> nessita, a pulseaudio process is being started and it finishes a lot of times on the tests that are slow
[21:54] <alecu> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/598939/
[21:55] <alecu> nessita, you can tell it's being restarted all the time because if you do "ps -fax" the process number keeps increasing.
[21:55] <nessita> alecu: I see. What puzzles me is that stable-1-0 is not showing this delay, and we use the same set of tests that run webkit. So, you suggested that maybe webkit was using pulseaudio, but I would bet is something on the windows side
[21:56] <alecu> nessita, that seems to be the cause why the test is slow. I haven't gotten to the point of figuring out whyTF pulseaudio is being started, but I suspect webkit.
[21:56] <alecu> yes, I still suspect webkit.
[21:57] <nessita> alecu: even if stable-1-0 tests do not show the same delay?
[21:57] <alecu> nessita, for the windows side I've been reviewing the way that threads are used after the windows code was merged in, because I suspected that part to be at fault, but it looks similar to the way we were doing it back then.
[21:57] <alecu> nessita, hmm
[22:02] <nessita> alecu: I'm anxiously waiting something after the "hmm" :-)
[22:04] <alecu> nessita, "hmm" was the reply to "even if stable-1-0 tests do not show the same delay"
[22:31] <thisfred> dog o'clock
[22:32] <nessita> ok, I'm eodgin
[22:32] <nessita> bye all
[22:42] <dobey> later all
[22:43] <ralsina> bye dobey!
[23:27] <alecu> okbye!