[00:01] <shauno> uhoh, new google doodle.  must be getting close to bedtime
[00:13] <hamitron> tugrik: mind if I ask what you are trying to do?
[00:19] <tugrik> it's ok, turns out some kind of anacron issue means none of my cron.daily jobs have run in the last month
[00:19] <tugrik> including log rotation
[00:19] <tugrik> but fixed it now
[00:19] <tugrik> nn :)
[00:20] <hamitron> ok, good :)
[00:20] <hamitron> nn dude o/
[01:16] <n1md4> hello
[01:16] <n1md4> does anyone here play enemy territory?  I'm wanting to set resolution defaults, but don't know where to.
[01:20] <gord> n1md4, look in ~/.enemyterritory/ for a .cfg file (i'm guessing because its based on quake 3 and thats the kind of thing quake 3 does)
[01:54] <n1md4> gord: thanks, found it.  Was .etwolf, got it working now too :D
[04:55] <phonex01> hello
[04:57] <ball> mornin.
[06:46] <forkball> Anyone up yet?
[06:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> What after a 4 day holiday weekend? You must be kidding forkball
[06:49] <forkball> TheOpenSourcerer: Ah, you get longer holidays than we do.
[06:50] <forkball> I worked yesterday and it was not fun.
[06:51] <forkball> brb, rebooting.
[06:58] <daubers> Morning
[07:11] <forkball> I don't remember asking for Flash, but I'm impressed that it installed anyway.
[07:16] <forkball> I know, I'll download Big Buck Bunny and save that on her desktop.
[07:16] <forkball> ...then Tuxtype
[07:16] <forkball> Is there an #ubuntu-parents ?
[07:16] <AlanBell> morning
[07:16]  * AlanBell works out who forkball is
[07:16] <forkball> hello AlanBell
[07:16] <forkball> :-)
[07:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning AlanBell
[07:17] <forkball> I'm ball, but I'm using fork's PC
[07:17] <AlanBell> morning
[07:17] <forkball> ...with forkbuntu :-)
[07:18] <forkball> I love this.  I haven't had this much fun with a PC in years.
[07:19] <forkball> Hard disk is too loud though. I'll have to buy her a quieter one.
[07:22] <forkball> I'm a bit surprised this computer can't play Ogg/Theora at 480p
[07:23] <forkball> Ah, there it is.
[07:25] <forkball> That works.
[07:28] <forkball> It's 01:30 and her machine is officially working.  I'm off to bed.
[07:28] <forkball> Have a good morning everyone!
[08:14] <daubers> Back in work after a wekk and a half away :(
[08:25] <DJones> Morning all
[08:25] <DJones> daubers: At least its only a 3 day week with bank holidays, a nice short start to get you back into it
[08:28] <daubers> DJones: There is that :) Also get to ride the bike in and out all week
[08:29] <DJones> I wouldn't mind riding to work, but 30 miles each way would be a bit of a drag
[08:32] <daubers> DJones: Wrong kind of bike :)
[08:32] <daubers> DJones: http://www.suzuki-gb.co.uk/bike/gz125k9/ <- My commuting vehicle this week
[08:33] <popey> Morning all.
[08:37] <daubers> o/
[08:42] <BigRedS> 125 cruisers always seem to be way more powerful than any other shape
[08:43] <daubers> Not quicker though :(
[08:44] <daubers> Did manage to sustain about 58 on the way in today mind you
[08:44] <BigRedS> haha, my brother's friend had a kymco 125 that almost kept up with us on 500s...
[08:44] <DJones> daubers: Heh, Must admit, I don't like motorbikes
[08:44] <BigRedS> which might say more about those 500s (or us) than it does about the kymco :)
[08:45] <daubers> Heh :)
[08:46] <daubers> BigRedS: I so want one of these http://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/tourers/#!/st1300/
[08:52] <hoover> mornin
[08:53] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:54] <DJones> Morning hoover MooDoo
[08:54] <BigRedS> daubers: I've an ST1100, and keep wondering about a 14300
[08:54] <BigRedS> it's a lovely bike
[08:55] <BigRedS> weirdly sporty, and apparently the 1300 is moreso
[09:00] <zerosumgame> can anyone help getting my headphone jack to work?
[09:02] <zerosumgame> can anyone help getting my headphone jack to work?
[09:08] <DJones> zerosumgame: I'm not on ubuntu at the minute, but if you go into your sound preferences, have you made sure that the headphone jack isn't muted, I can't say the specific command because I'm not able to check properly at the minute
[09:17] <zerosumgame> DJ yeah its not muted
[09:18] <zerosumgame> when i put the headphones in it doesn't even stop the sound coming from the spekers
[09:20] <DJones> zerosumgame: Do you get sound out of both headphone & speaker, or just speaker
[09:20] <DJones> And which version of Ubuntu are you using
[09:21] <zerosumgame> just speakers 10.10
[09:23] <DJones> Is it a laptop? Which model
[09:24] <zerosumgame> HP-Pavilion dv5 laptop
[09:24] <zerosumgame> thanks for the help btw
[09:25] <DJones> Give me a minute, I'll see if I can find any suggestions on the ubuntu forums that might help
[09:28] <daubers> BigRedS: *jealous*
[09:32] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps. Who here wishes they had booked these 3 days off?
[09:33] <DJones> zerosumgame: I'm afraid I can't see anything specific about it, hopefully somebody else here will be able to help though
[09:34] <AlanBell> zerosumgame: that happens on some laptops when it fails to guess the speaker configuration
[09:35] <zerosumgame> any idea how  to fix that AlanBell?
[09:38] <AlanBell> zerosumgame: what is the output of lspci |grep Audio
[09:42] <zerosumgame> Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA)
[09:42] <zerosumgame> 01:05.1 Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc RS780 Azalia controller
[09:43] <zerosumgame> i think i need to edit the config file
[09:43] <osbeix> hi folks i need some help with English. is there someone who can help me pls
[09:46] <zerosumgame> brb need to reboot
[09:55] <osbeix> what exaclty means "joint undertaking"
[09:57] <andyloughran> howdy
[09:57] <osbeix> hi
[09:58] <oimon> osbeix: when 2 or more parties work together on something
[09:58] <osbeix> oimon: thank you very much
[10:14] <oimon> have you guys seen this: tweetedtimes.com - it's like a google news page of your twitter feed
[10:38] <zerosumgame> AlanBell I got it to work thanks also to DJones
[10:38] <DJones> zerosumgame: What was the problem
[10:39] <zerosumgame> i just added a line of to the alas config file which I found on the forum
[10:39] <DJones> Thats good that it wasn't to messy to solve
[10:40] <zerosumgame> no i was surprised myself
[10:40] <zerosumgame> updating to version 11 is easy right?
[10:51] <DJones> It should be, I upgraded to the beta a couple of weeks back with no problems, pretty much just a case of clicking the button to upgrade once the system said that a new version was available & it downloaded everything via the web
[11:01] <brobostigon> good morning everyone
[11:02] <bigcalm> Morning
[11:03] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm
[11:04] <bigcalm> Trying to get my head around some code I wrote 2 months ago. Wish I had documented it a little more
[11:05] <DJones> bigcalm: Isn't "Wish I had documented it a little more" up there with "I wish I'd kept backups"
[11:09] <bigcalm> DJones: I'd say it was a few steps below
[11:10] <bigcalm> And I try to write my code so that it doesn't need comments
[11:10] <DJones> I think you're right with that
[11:10] <bigcalm> $cammelCaseVariablesHelpDocumentCodeWithoutHavingToDocument
[11:11] <BigRedS> there's still the "why did that look like a good idea" bits, though
[11:11] <dogmatic69> self commenting code ftw
[11:11] <bigcalm> Some code we got back from a 3rd party dev were obscure as hell
[11:11] <dogmatic69> $a = $b['c']; // fail
[11:11] <bigcalm> And undocumented
[11:12] <oimon> that's why i gave up learning perl
[11:12] <oimon> the ability to create some of the most obscure code imaginable
[11:16] <BigRedS> oimon: it's not a requirement of writing perl, though!
[11:19] <oimon> BigRedS: seemed to be, from the examples i was reading - everything was hard to read!
[11:19] <bigcalm> BigRedS: are you sure? ;)
[11:20] <bigcalm> A laguage is only as good as the way it is used. So, find a better book on learning a language
[11:21] <bigcalm> For Perl, I suggest 'Learning Perl' and 'Perl Cookbook'. Both by O'Reilly
[11:21] <BigRedS> I like to think mine is pretty readable
[11:22] <bigcalm> The Perl CD Bookshelf is a very handy thing (if you're a Perl coder)
[11:22] <BigRedS> much of the 'modern perl' movement seems to be about making perl easier to read and write, bascially by trying to create defacto standards
[11:22] <oimon> i had the "programming perl" o reilly one
[11:23] <BigRedS> oimon: yeah, that's more about the language itself than writing it, I thought
[11:23] <bigcalm> A good book, but not great if you need to start learning
[11:23] <oimon> i don't remember now, twas a few years ago
[11:27]  * DJones wonders if the reason the postman is late is because we've got an abandoned post office bike in the office car park
[11:31] <BigRedS> haha
[11:32]  * oimon just put a heater on :( 
[11:33] <DJones> oimon: When did you move to Iceland, I'm roasting (although that could just be the feeling of crispy sun(not quite) burned skin keeping me warm
[11:33] <oimon> i am hidden behind 6 ft thick concrete walls
[11:34] <oimon> in a north and west facing corner office with single glazed windows...rather chilly
[11:34] <oimon> i must remember to remove lifehacker from my rss and twitter feeds :( every time i click their links, it fails miserably
[11:35] <DJones> 6ft thick concrete walls, that sounds like you walk in a bank vault
[11:35] <DJones> s/walk/work
[11:35] <shauno> I've done this same :/  js doesn't belong in a url
[11:50] <gord> guys. this is awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRM0z9GprQg
[11:51] <gord> book lens for ubuntu
[11:53] <davmor2> gord: the gwibber lens is pretty good too, of course not as good as it will be next release
[11:54] <gord> yeah, next release is gonna be awesome :)
[11:55] <davmor2> gord: Yeap I think I'm going to look forward to that more than this release to be honest
[11:57] <gord> as a software developer, i always look forward to the cool stuff i want to do next release that i couldn't do this release
[11:57] <bigcalm> gord: next release being 11.10?
[11:57] <gord> yup
[11:57] <bigcalm> Just checking :)
[11:58] <oimon> i think my next laptop will look something like this http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/18/asus-eee-pad-transformer-uk-edition-review/
[11:59] <davmor2> gord: bigcalm:  I think everyone is the same,  this release was the chore to get everything in place ready to do the cool stuff in the next one
[11:59] <bigcalm> Indeed
[12:00] <AlanBell> I think this is the dreamy one and the next one will be more natty
[12:00] <bigcalm> I just hope that 11.04 doesn't kill of interest
[12:01] <oimon> bigcalm: that's why they should call it a technology preview ;)
[12:01] <davmor2> bigcalm: I think if you give it time you'll like it, I'm so happy now I have natty on my main desktop now :)
[12:02] <bigcalm> davmor2: I might not be the target audience. I do more with servers than desktop
[12:02] <davmor2> bigcalm: but then I've been using it for ages on another box for testing our upcoming work
[12:02] <davmor2> bigcalm: so bigger terminals are good right :)
[12:02] <bigcalm> Heh
[12:03] <bigcalm> Oh look, lunch time o'clock :D
[12:08] <directhex> i'm waiting for the release with proper gnome3
[12:08] <andyloughran> heya
[12:08] <bigcalm> Will gnome be re-included in the future then?
[12:09] <bigcalm> Hi andyloughran
[12:09] <brobostigon> directhex: me too,
[12:11] <MattJ> gord: I have no idea exactly what that video is meant to be demonstrating
[12:12] <gord> really?
[12:13] <gord> i mean... its pretty obvious, it says it, you can search and read books
[12:13] <BigRedS> oh
[12:15] <MattJ> gord: if that's all, then ok... :)
[12:16] <oimon> it uses zeitgeist info to offer you book recommendations too, based on your browsing and reading habits
[12:17] <oimon> my 1 year old child was given 4 easter eggs :S
[12:17] <oimon> my teeth are gonna fall out
[12:17] <MattJ> oimon: Oh I see!
[12:17] <Pendulum> oimon: your wife isn't helping you 'dispose' of them?
[12:17] <oimon> MattJ: also it's a slick search interface for accessing free online books too
[12:18] <oimon> Pendulum: tbh it's my duty to eat them rather than her
[12:18] <oimon> because i don't weigh much
[12:18] <Pendulum> haha
[12:18] <oimon> nor does she, but i like it that way
[12:19] <Pendulum> ouch
[12:19] <oimon> i already smuggled on eegg to work
[12:20] <oimon> gonna try smuggling the others out too :)
[12:20] <oimon> it's for her own good , and mine too, since i get to eat them
[12:21] <gord> when i was a child chocolate eggs did nothing but torment me, i wanted to eat the entire thing at once but was not allowed, it would just have to sit there, nibbled at occasionally, wrapped in its somehow mocking golden foil. - the entire thing is evil
[12:21] <oimon> i can (and usually do) make an egg last for a month
[12:21] <oimon> once kept a flake in the fridge for 6 months, tormenting my whole family
[12:22] <oimon> like when i kept a 4 pack of beers in the fridge at uni, and my housemate regularly succumbed and drank them all, having to replace them, drinking the replacements , etc , etc
[12:22] <directhex> i'm on a diet. boo!
[12:22] <oimon> me too..weight gain diet
[12:22] <oimon> doesn't work though
[12:23] <gord> there is a special place in hell reserved for those who eat half a chocolate bar, then put this remains in the fridge.
[12:23] <oimon> :D
[12:23] <oimon> i regularly have to choose the more calorific option even if i don't want it
[12:24] <directhex> i'm trying to not weigh as much as a sysadmin
[12:24] <Laney> how's the neckbeard?
[12:25] <directhex> Laney, difficult to eliminate! i need a shaving mirror
[12:32] <oimon> easiest way for a sysadmin to lose weight is to cut off the ponytail and the gadget belt
[12:35]  * daubers has started measuring his calorie intake :(
[12:37] <oimon> hmm my dell delivery just jumped from ETA 28/4 to 9/5 :(
[12:38] <BigRedS> whoo. I should be in London on thurs eve
[12:38] <BigRedS> but the closest I have to a relevant t-shirt is from the launch of Lenny :/
[12:39] <directhex> i'm going for extreme calorie reduction, plus exercise
[12:40] <directhex> dieting doesn't need to be all-bad. a big mac is diet-compatible.
[12:47] <oimon> the trouble with minecraft is that i wouldn't be able to play it without singing 'money for nothing' the whole time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTP2RUD_cL0
[12:54] <brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/715096/comments/19
[12:54] <brobostigon> cansomeone enlighten me, as to what onearth that comment is meant to mean,please.
[12:54] <directhex> time for tasty lunch
[12:54] <directhex> tasty, tasty special k
[12:55]  * DJones gets ready to go for a tasty chicken & bacon sub & maybe a pasty as well
[12:56]  * oimon had a pasty too
[12:57] <oimon> brobostigon: the comment on the bug?
[12:57] <brobostigon> oimon: yes.
[12:57] <oimon> brobostigon: he's saying thanks to bryce for providing the ppa
[12:58] <brobostigon> oimon: oh, i see. that makes more sense.yes.
[12:58] <oimon> i've received untold quantities of comment "spam" lately , of "me too" messages etc
[12:58] <MooDoo> czajkowski: hay laura, your back any better?
[12:58] <oimon> worst is when somebody adds crash info to an existing bug
[12:59] <oimon> i received 20 emails in the space of 5 mins as somebody added attachments
[12:59] <czajkowski> MooDoo: yeah getting there thanks, back is mostly ok, just leg giving me hassle now
[12:59] <brobostigon> oimon: i will add crash information if i think it is going to help diagnosis and fix.
[12:59] <directhex> 30g of special k. everything the body needs
[12:59] <MooDoo> czajkowski: ok great :)  just checking in :D
[13:00] <brobostigon> oimon: ouch,ohwell.
[13:00] <oimon> directhex: i thought that the pasty was the perfect meal?
[13:00] <oimon> spuds, veg, meat, pastry, tasty
[13:00] <directhex> pastry is the enemy
[13:04] <oimon> somebody has awakened a bug on the wine-bugs list which has been dormant for over 2 years :( suddenly > 10 comments in 24 hours!
[13:13] <directhex> today is a heavy calorie control day. i'll have had about 600 calories max by the time i go to bed.
[13:14] <czajkowski> directhex: you're in the wrong channel this one mentions biscuits,cakes, jammy dodgers, custard creams on a daily basis
[13:14] <directhex> czajkowski, i like all those things.
[13:15]  * oimon is about to eat one of these: http://www.flickr.com/photos/oimon/5158732351/in/photostream << favourite cakes ever
[13:15] <daubers> directhex: I've had almost half of that already
[13:15] <daubers> Bowl of frosties is 174 calories
[13:16] <directhex> daubers, plus milk
[13:16] <daubers> directhex: That includes milk :)
[13:16] <directhex> daubers, i'd check that, given special k is 173 with milk
[13:17] <directhex> on the front of the box is without
[13:17] <directhex> with is in the table on the back
[13:17] <oimon> did you weigh the quantity of cereal?
[13:17] <dwatkins> I always put too much milk in
[13:18] <daubers> directhex: That was from the side of the box in the "With milk" column
[13:19] <directhex> oimon, yes.
[13:19] <popey> uhm
[13:19] <popey> anyone on natty + unity here?
[13:20] <popey> click the time at the top right, then choose the last option on the menu
[13:20] <czajkowski> popey: moi
[13:20] <popey> settings
[13:20] <popey> what happens when you do that?
[13:20] <czajkowski> top right of what
[13:20] <daubers> directhex: http://www.weightlossforall.com/calories-cereals.htm
[13:20] <popey> czajkowski: your screen
[13:20] <czajkowski> popey: oh the about me comes up
[13:21] <popey> eh
[13:21] <popey> you sure?
[13:21] <czajkowski> popey: if I right click over the power button?
[13:21] <czajkowski> thats the far right I can go
[13:21] <popey> where did I say that?
[13:21] <popey> 13:20:10 < popey> click the time at the top right, then choose the last option on the menu
[13:21] <czajkowski> oh missed time
[13:21] <czajkowski> :(
[13:21] <popey> heh
[13:22] <czajkowski> time and date thingy pops out
[13:22] <popey> i get nothing
[13:22] <DJones> popey: Can't check at the minute, but yesterday it was bringing up another menu with various system app's to select from
[13:22] <czajkowski> popey: I've been waiting to do a update this morning but my mirror in ireland keeps not fetching
[13:23] <popey> hmm, wonder why it fails here
[13:24] <czajkowski> downside to unity
[13:24] <daubers> popey: Got any windows open?
[13:24] <czajkowski> I cant find where things are where they used to be to change :s
[13:25] <oimon> just updating my natty box now
[13:25] <popey> daubers: nothing
[13:25] <daubers> popey: Hmmm... I get the date window as expected
[13:26]  * daubers updates and checks again
[13:26] <popey> what app is it?
[13:26] <popey> this is a clean natty install
[13:26] <daubers> popey: "Time & Date" no idea if that helps get a package name
[13:27] <popey> ps aux
[13:27] <popey> look at most recent process?
[13:28] <daubers> popey: indicator-datetime-preferences
[13:28] <awilkins> Grrr. Amazon. Peeegs.
[13:28] <daubers> awilkins: I had to give up my amazon account :(
[13:28] <awilkins> They keep delaying my box set of Knuth
[13:29] <awilkins> I reckon it's because they sold it to me for £137 and all the other sellers are charging more. All their communications say "You can cancel at any time"
[13:30] <oimon> lol
[13:30] <awilkins> They are probably waiting for people to cancel and THEN order some stock and price it up
[13:31] <popey> 13:20:10 < popey> click the time at the top right, then choose the last option on the menu
[13:31] <popey> bah
[13:31] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/599275
[13:31] <popey> thats not good
[13:32]  * DJones makes a note not to update natty this evening
[13:32] <popey> been like it for days
[13:32] <oimon> popey: mine works
[13:32] <popey> suggestions welcome
[13:33] <daubers> popey: restart dbus?
[13:33] <oimon> anything in dmesg /var/log/messages?
[13:35] <DJones> popey: Is this in a real install, or a vm? Maybe try a live usb to see if the same thing happens with a default system
[13:35] <popey> vm
[13:35] <popey> its in virtualbox
[13:35] <popey> interestingly the theme crashes too
[13:35] <popey> if i kill and restart gnome-settings-daemon it fixes it
[13:36] <popey> hmm, after a reboot (and before killing gsd) the time dialog appears
[13:39] <popey> bah, works now
[13:39] <popey> ignore me
[13:40]  * oimon hates  hayfever. feels like someone injected expanding-foam into my sinuses 
[13:44] <awilkins> Get someone to inject expanding foam into your sinuses to keep the pollen out.
[13:46] <gord> giant corks solve all
[13:46] <dwatkins> I use beconase to stop from snoring so much
[13:46] <dwatkins> I gather it's also good for hayfever.
[13:47] <oimon> i use beconase, loratadine, and a nose torch
[13:47] <oimon> plus eye drops and homeopathic voodoo
[13:48] <oimon> what i don't understand is how, in a bedroom that is largely pollen-free, double glazed, door closed etc, do i wake at 6-7am with massive symptoms?
[13:49] <directhex> hay fever hasn't hit me yet
[13:49] <directhex> it's a pollen which arrives later
[13:49] <directhex> around may/june
[13:50] <awilkins> oimon, Natural cortisol cycle is diurnal - cortisol level drops at night, peaks in the morning
[13:51] <awilkins> oimon, cortisol regulates immune system
[13:52] <davmor2> gord: how do you add more desktops to unity?  I'm assuming it's all controlled via ccsm correct?
[13:52] <oimon> my nose generally knows when it's sunny out though
[13:52] <oimon> before i've got out of bed
[13:52] <gord> more desktops?
[13:52] <gord> like workspaces?
[13:53] <gord> in the general settings in ccsm
[13:54] <davmor2> gord: got it thanks I was looking in the wrong place
[13:58] <Myrtti> ha
[13:58] <Myrtti> President's cell number had to be changed because it was in Wikileaks
[13:59] <Myrtti> and apparently nobody managed to do any prank calls or texts to it before it was changed
[14:01] <DJones> If they had, I wonder whether he'd have answered it himself or would a secretary have answered it anyway
[14:01] <Myrtti> she ;-)
[14:02] <bigcalm> Finnish president I assume
[14:02] <Myrtti> yup
[14:02] <DJones> Ah, I thought you'd been talking about the US president
[14:03] <oimon> me too...too much Dr Who
[14:04] <DJones> oimon: That doesn't make sense, there can never be too much doctor who
[14:04] <AlanBell> does not compute
[14:05] <oimon> colin baker was in an episode of joanthan creek i saw the other day
[14:05] <bigcalm> There can be too much if it's anything like Saturday's episode
[14:06] <oimon> i enjoyed moffat 1000x more than RTD
[14:07] <oimon> i didn't watch the entire last series of RTD
[14:39] <Azelphur> How does this page work? http://bit.ly/3bFfye he's clearly using a nonstandard font that doesn't ship with all OS's o.O
[14:39] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: http://code.google.com/apis/webfonts/
[14:40] <shauno> they don't need to be installed anymore.  welcome to the wooooooorld of tomorrow
[14:41] <bigcalm> \o/
[14:41] <davmor2> MOO!
[14:41] <Azelphur> yay, world of tomorrow, I've been waiting for that for a while now :p
[14:42] <Azelphur> also inb4 websites with illegible calligraphy fonts
[14:42] <bigcalm> Humm, media screen. So it won't print by default
[14:43] <shauno> they've been doing that for a while.  using images instead of text, then using flash-image-replacement .. and now just calling the font they need
[14:43] <bigcalm> Nope :) print preview in FF shows a default font
[14:44] <shauno> you can't enforce taste.  just this way, it degrades to a sane fault if you disable @font-face
[14:44] <shauno> er, sane font
[14:45] <Azelphur> fun :p
[14:47] <oimon> does anyone know why the ! character on omgubuntu looks like an l on my machine?
[14:47] <oimon> only on firefox, not chrome...think i must have done something a long time ago
[14:49] <oimon> look at this: http://i.imgur.com/1orOa.png
[14:49] <dogmatic69> oimon: is that 10.x netbook
[14:49] <oimon> lucid desktop
[14:50] <oimon> it's specific to my firefox setup
[14:50] <oimon> it's not showing the correct ubuntu font for some reason, maybe i have ubuntu web font installed on some weirdness
[14:51] <shauno> mmm morels .. I miss shrooming
[14:54] <shauno> it's the right time of year for 'em too.  just funny that your bug created a real word :)
[14:55] <oimon> yeah lol...a phallic mushroom
[14:56] <oimon> makes reading the comments pretty much impossible on that site
[15:00] <oimon> ah, something to do with using droid sans at 14pt
[15:02] <davmor2> MooDoo: Hello mukka ow am ya
[15:02] <MooDoo> davmor2: alreeet yoof :)
[15:03] <davmor2> MooDoo: R gret, dat czajkowski is better than she was watch, czajkowski PROD!!!!!
[15:04] <MooDoo> davmor2: i know i spoked to er ealier....not poked er yet
[15:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] HeartInternet - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/04/heart-internet.html
[15:12] <MooDoo> oooo there i am
[15:18] <oimon> MooDoo: still looking for staff?
[15:18] <MooDoo> yup  something management mentioned to me
[15:19] <oimon> i recall you were looking a few months ago for the same position?
[15:19] <MooDoo> oimon: same, just more :)
[15:19] <oimon> :D
[15:19] <oimon> would be interested if i lived nearby
[15:20] <MooDoo> :)
[15:22] <davmor2> oimon: you can do this thing called moving?
[15:22] <oimon> davmor2: nah
[15:24] <oimon> unless there's a good IT job in cornwall..then i might consider
[15:31] <dogmatic69> im building a box on EC2 to house git/svn etc for internal stuff
[15:32] <dogmatic69> what is the best way to have a backup that is ready to go if the main one dies?
[15:34] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: one way would be to crontab an rsync to another server
[15:34] <BigRedS> drbd?
[15:34] <BigRedS> depends what you mean by 'backup'
[15:34] <bigcalm> And then issue an svn relocate --switch
[15:35] <bigcalm> Or is it svn switch --relocate? I can never remember
[15:36] <dogmatic69> i guess the data should be synced on both boxes within a few minutes
[15:37] <dogmatic69> using A syncing data to B, then A goes down, switch to B carry on using B, then when A is back sync data from B to A
[15:37] <dogmatic69> i think a load balancer is required as that will pick which box to use, but as for the syncing data... idk where to start
[15:40] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: that drdb looks about right
[15:42] <shauno> you could add post-commit hooks to the svn server to rsync then
[15:42] <dogmatic69> shauno: need more than svn
[15:42] <shauno> ah, ok
[15:42] <dogmatic69> svn is just historical anyhow, not being used much more
[15:43] <dogmatic69> git, trac, other internal web apps etc
[15:43] <shauno> looks like git does hooks too, but that'd get a bit annoying doing it per-service.  so I'll be quiet :)
[15:44] <dogmatic69> :)
[15:44] <dogmatic69> i could...
[15:44] <dogmatic69> cd / && git init
[15:44] <dogmatic69> :D
[15:48] <dogmatic69> how do i tell the current kernel version
[15:49] <daubers> dogmatic69: uname -a
[15:51] <dogmatic69> tx
[15:51] <dogmatic69> should have known that one :D
[16:28] <dogmatic69> if you have a load balancer in area A with the main box in B and a backup in C, if area A dies then everything is dead right?
[16:28] <BigRedS> yeah
[16:29] <dogmatic69> :/
[16:29] <dogmatic69> so then what is the point
[16:29] <BigRedS> well, you might be able to manually move things, like DNS records
[16:29] <dogmatic69> sounds like its ~= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedge_fund
[16:30] <BigRedS> but in that sort of situation youd want to be able to easily move IP addresses around
[16:30] <BigRedS> so have everything on the same network
[16:30] <dogmatic69> hmm
[16:30] <BigRedS> but you'd also have two loadbalancers, failing over
[16:30] <BigRedS> ideally
[16:30] <BigRedS> or, perhaps, manually shift the IP from your lone loadbalancer to one member of the pool
[16:31] <shauno> https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?messageID=112816   may be interesting
[16:31] <dogmatic69> so drbd the load balancer?
[16:31] <BigRedS> nah, drbd is just a block device. the load balancers don't need to have always-on disk
[16:31] <dogmatic69> ok
[16:32] <BigRedS> at its simplest, you have two redundant nodes, linked by heartbeat or something. When one fails, teh other can't see it and so takes everything over
[16:32] <BigRedS> more ideally, you have a load balancer, and a node assumes that if it can't see the load balancer, it has died ( to prevent each thinking the other's gone away when the link between them fails)
[16:33] <dogmatic69> hmm
[16:33] <BigRedS> even more ideally, your load balancers are failover with hearbeat, and balancing load across some pool of nodes that don't midn which loadbalancer the requests come from
[16:33] <BigRedS> but by then you need 4+ machines
[16:33] <dogmatic69> well its EC2 so easy to do loads of machines
[16:34] <dogmatic69> and its a pretty important box
[16:34] <BigRedS> ah, but with ec2 it might be easier to spawn new machines as needed than to maintain running redundant ones? I know nothing of using ec2 though
[16:35] <BigRedS> but If you can stick everything on drbd, the other node in drbd can presumably supply all the required data for the newly-spawned EC2 instance?
[16:35] <BigRedS> depends how ec2 fails, though
[16:35] <directhex> ec2 is only cheap if you don't plan for redundancy
[16:36] <dogmatic69> ^ ye
[16:36] <directhex> when you build enough slack into the system for it to keep running, it's £££
[16:36] <dogmatic69> 4+ will be > £100 pm with no traffic
[16:37] <shauno> that's enough to make me wonder if traditional VMs wouldn't be a better idea
[16:37] <dogmatic69> like one huge EC2 and vm's on there?
[16:37] <shauno> was more thinking any of the millions of vps providers who haven't made the news this week :)
[16:37] <dogmatic69> :D
[16:38] <oimon> anyone used a dell dup netbook/tablet? or anything similar?
[16:38] <oimon> dup=duo
[16:38] <shauno> (or a combination of the two, so you're genuinely dual-homed)
[16:40] <shauno> I'm curious what'd take down your first ec2 instance without taking down the second?
[16:42] <shauno> just a thought.  this isn't my area at all, but I'd think the answer to having too many eggs in one basket, is more baskets, not more eggs
[16:42] <dogmatic69> shauno: well like last week ec2 died in the us and eu was fine
[16:42]  * brobostigon returns o/
[16:42] <shauno> yeah.  so you'd want one copy in eu and the other in .. singapore or us-east I guess
[16:42] <dogmatic69> so if said node was in us and died, it could spit out the eu one
[16:42] <dogmatic69> yes
[16:42] <dogmatic69> and then have the load balancer in japan...
[16:43] <dogmatic69> but then that gets swallowed by a earthquake and the whole lot dies
[16:43] <shauno> just not familiar enough with ec2 to know what advantages it'd have over a traditional vps, which is priced for always-on
[16:43] <dogmatic69> dont want to wait 86000 seconds for the ttl to die
[16:43] <dogmatic69> ye
[16:43] <dogmatic69> works call, not mine :/
[16:44] <dogmatic69> i pushed for slicehost or something 'normal'
[16:45] <shauno> ec2 seems to work out better cost-wise for things that can be turned off.  so if your primary was a 'normal', but you keep an ec2 instance warm enough to bring it in on demand, you get the best of both worlds
[16:45] <shauno> but yeah - just thinking out loud :)
[16:45] <dogmatic69> im with  you on that one
[16:45]  * dogmatic69 is not paying *shrug*
[16:45] <shauno> :)
[16:54] <oimon> i can't believe vendors would rather put freedos on a PC than linux :S http://www.itproportal.com/2011/04/20/lenovo-drops-price-its-cheapest-pc-ever/
[16:55] <shauno> it's probably *much* easier to support
[16:56] <dogmatic69> 'six USB ports and a number of legacy ports'... only because the mobo is 15 years old
[16:56] <shauno> no drivers, no nothing, and they can throw their hands in the air if you have any problems under any other OS
[16:57] <oimon> i thought that in the world of business, a bit of value-added always helps
[16:57] <oimon> doesn't take much
[16:57] <oimon> effort
[16:58] <shauno> for 150 quid, it could cost the company more in manhours supporting the software pretty quickly
[16:59] <shauno> (also, didn't realise intel still made celerons :)
[17:14] <dogmatic69> HA is heavy on the brain :/
[17:19] <shauno> just assume everything's broken, and figure out why it still works :)
[17:46] <davmor2> Nothing like being up-to-date on your news I just found out my high school was knocked down in 2001
[17:49] <popey> \o/ podcast evening
[17:54] <davmor2> popey: what did podcast do to get the special greeting off you?
[17:55] <czajkowski> I have tiger bread
[17:55] <czajkowski> going to cover it in niuce yummy bugger and make a strong brew
[17:56] <popey> yummy what now?
[17:58] <czajkowski> dear gods
[17:58] <czajkowski> I clearly was not thinking of what I was typing
[17:58] <czajkowski> going to cover it in niuce yummy butter and make a strong brew of tea
[17:59] <czajkowski> popey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_bread
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> tiger bread \o/
[18:19] <phonex01> plz plz help
[18:19] <phonex01> iwlagn 0000:03:00.0: request for firmware file 'iwlwifi-5000-2.ucode' failed.
[18:20] <phonex01> im trying since yesterday to fix my wireless but no progress !
[18:20] <phonex01> i just updated the kernel !
[18:20] <phonex01> and i lost my wireless
[18:22] <awilkins> Sounds like a firmware is missing.
[18:22] <phonex01> the file is already there !!!
[18:22] <phonex01> [   22.311864] iwlagn 0000:03:00.0: request for firmware file 'iwlwifi-5000-2.ucode' failed.
[18:22] <phonex01> [   22.313663] iwlagn 0000:03:00.0: request for firmware file 'iwlwifi-5000-1.ucode' failed.
[18:22] <phonex01> [   22.313680] iwlagn 0000:03:00.0: no suitable firmware found!
[18:22] <phonex01> [   22.313896] iwlagn 0000:03:00.0: PCI INT A disabled
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> phonex01: did you install a custom kernel?
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> phonex01: or did you remove a firmware package?
[18:25] <phonex01> i made an update
[18:26] <phonex01> from update tool
[18:26] <MartijnVdS> phonex01: which version of Ubuntu?
[18:27] <phonex01> 10.10
[18:28] <phonex01> so ?
[18:29] <MartijnVdS> phonex01: did you remove the linux-firmware or linux-firmware-nonfree package?
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> phonex01: did you check launchpad for an existing bug? You can't be the only one if it's a packaging bug
[18:30] <phonex01> no i did not
[18:37]  * HazRPG playing too much portal2, trying to finish it
[18:37] <brobostigon> good evening HazRPG :)
[18:37] <HazRPG> brobostigon: good evening :)
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Where are you (in the game)
[18:38] <HazRPG> I have a potato in my hand!
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ah, there :)
[18:39] <HazRPG> as in 2nd time holding the potato :)
[18:39] <HazRPG> she was on a switch
[18:40] <brobostigon> http://www.androidauthority.com/android-officially-cooler-than-iphone-13348/
[18:56] <HazRPG> seems to be a bug in wine1.3
[18:56] <HazRPG> steam wouldn't load at all (kept saying that it was installed badly)
[18:56] <JGJones> Finished Portal 2...
[18:57] <JGJones> and it's awesome :)
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: \o/
[18:57] <HazRPG> and when I tried to reinstall msiexec.exe is broked
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: remove ~/.wine and try again ;)
[18:57] <JGJones> Now I get why all that Potato references prior to the game :)
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: did you find the easter eggs? :)
[19:01] <JGJones> MartijnVdS, I found the musical sentries
[19:01] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: and the drydock?
[19:01] <JGJones> hmm drydock...no don't think so...
[19:03] <JGJones> a drydock...underground?
[19:04] <ant_> sslserver
[19:05] <JGJones> I do wonder about the ending of Portal 2, but won't discuss (no spoilers)
[19:12] <JGJones> MartijnVdS, Damn you...I'm gonna have to fire up portal 2 to look for the drydock. Any clues to where to look? :)
[19:13] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: It's fine, loaded back up wine1.2 and its all good again
[19:13] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: however, still annoying that I can't play portal 2 inside of linux without using the stupid crack :(
[19:13]  * HazRPG wants to do co-op
[19:20] <davmor2> HazRPG: no come on....Tesco and Sainsbury's will get jealous if you on do co-op
[19:20] <HazRPG> xD
[19:21] <davmor2> s/on/only
[19:22] <ali1234> popey: i've got a question about hw certification actually...
[19:22] <ali1234> but i can't fit it in 140 characters
[19:23] <davmor2> ali1234: okay try 10 on here instead :)
[19:23] <ali1234> so... if a piece of hardware like a notebook will be certified, what does it really mean? does it mean that every piece of hardware in it works, or does it mean that "just the ones we tested" works?
[19:23] <popey> great question, perfect
[19:23] <ali1234> for example a laptop might have thumbprint reader or other unusual hardware
[19:24] <ali1234> if that's not on the list of "things to be tested" will it work?
[19:24] <ali1234> or laptops with multi-gpu
[19:24] <popey> also good
[19:24] <popey> have noted these
[19:24] <ali1234> i suspect that certification just means "passes this list of tests"
[19:25] <ali1234> where the tests are things like it boots up to login screen, sound works, network card works etc
[19:25] <ali1234> and unusual hardware won't be tested
[19:25] <ali1234> but i think there should be a mark that tells me that everything works
[19:25] <ali1234> not just the basics
[19:26] <davmor2> popey: does it cover all iterations of that model number, ie hp g62 is a model but might have 101 102 103 as series number that have different hardware even thought they are all called hp g62
[19:28] <popey> thanks
[19:34] <AlanBell> popey: does it also cover the sales process, i.e. if something is "Ubuntu friendly" you would expect the sales team to actually allow you to buy it
[19:35] <AlanBell> popey: is there a specific logo that an OEM will be permitted to print on the box if it is friendly?
[19:36] <AlanBell> if the friendlyness of the system is assessed by the community then that neccessarily means that it occurs after the launch of the product
[19:37] <AlanBell> which in turn means the packaging is designed already
[19:37] <AlanBell> which means it can't have a logo on the box
[19:37] <AlanBell> which means the sales staff will deny it works with Ubuntu
[19:37] <ali1234> well "friendlyness" is a bit subjective anyway, isn't it?
[19:38] <AlanBell> it is
[19:38] <ali1234> better to limit it to something that can be well defined ie driver support imo
[19:38] <AlanBell> popey: does it work for peripherals too?
[19:38] <AlanBell> I have purchased printers before and gone into a retailer and asked if a particular model works with Linux
[19:39] <AlanBell> they have *no clue*
[19:39] <ali1234> to be fair you could ask them just about anything, and if it isn't written on the box they won't know
[19:39] <ali1234> "does this printer support postscript?"
[19:40] <ali1234> "does this TV support component video?"
[19:40] <ali1234> it's why box logos are actually important...
[19:41] <jibadeeha> lol i share your experience ali1234
[19:41] <AlanBell> agreed
[19:41] <exobuzz> they know all about selling extended warranties
[19:42] <Myrtti> meh
[19:42] <jibadeeha> i find myself trying to dodge them in the shop .. you can see them approaching you in your peripheral vision
[19:43] <jibadeeha> "it's got gigabytes and megabytes, and can do everything"
[19:43] <daubers> exobuzz: They don't like it when you point out the flaws in said warrenties though
[19:43] <daubers> jibadeeha: More fun to wind them up
[19:44] <exobuzz> :)
[19:44] <jibadeeha> lol too true daubers
[19:44] <daubers> jibadeeha: I saw someone trying to sell someone a netbook over a macbook pro as "It's got windows on it, so it's a thousand times mor capable than the macbook"
[19:44] <exobuzz> i get annoyed when people mix up memory/hd size
[19:44] <daubers> They frowned at me when I broke out in laughter
[19:45] <jibadeeha> daubers, a thousand times lol
[19:45] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, like "it has 250GB of memory"
[19:45] <exobuzz> daubers, although that's no more stupid than how jobs sold the ipad as "more intimate than a netbook" as if computer intimacy is the top of everyones specs list
[19:46] <exobuzz> more functional than an iphone and more intimate than a netbook he said. so basically, better than an iphone and not as good as a netbook ;-)
[19:46] <jibadeeha> i still can't see where i would use an ipad, but i still want one or something similar .. have been looking at the Asus EEE pad which is a netbook and tablet
[19:46] <Pendulum> exobuzz: you mean you don't sleep with your computer?
[19:46] <jibadeeha> lol exobuzz
[19:46] <exobuzz> Pendulum, just my c64.. after all, what else could the userport be fo
[19:47] <exobuzz> for
[19:47] <exobuzz> nothing is as intimate as my c64, although the "rubber" speccy can be fun if that is your fetish heh
[19:48] <dwatkins> I had a BBC Micro back then.
[19:48] <exobuzz> dwatkins, nerd ;-)
[19:48] <gordonjcp> ooo
[19:48] <dwatkins> exobuzz: yep :)
[19:48] <exobuzz> i bet you always did your homework too!
[19:48] <gordonjcp> I've got one of those
[19:48] <gordonjcp> *somewhere*
[19:48] <dwatkins> gordonjcp: I still own mine, it's at a friend's house.
[19:48] <dwatkins> We converted it so it looked more like a PC...
[19:48] <jibadeeha> i always had a thing for my rubber speccy and kempston joystick
[19:48] <exobuzz> mwaha i switched the topic to 8 bit puting again.
[19:48] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: I found a BBC Master Compact in the boot of a car in a scrapyard once
[19:48] <dwatkins> ...and put a sticker on the front saying 'my other computer is a cray'
[19:49] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: and I should have a couple of BBC Model Bs
[19:49] <dwatkins> gordonjcp: sadly I'm not surprised
[19:49] <exobuzz> elite on the bbc master! awesome
[19:49] <jibadeeha> is there an elite like game for Linux i wonder
[19:49] <dwatkins> One of the first apps I install on each new machine: BeebEm
[19:49] <dwatkins> yeah, jibadeeha - oolite
[19:49] <ali1234> !info oolite
[19:49] <jibadeeha> time to try oolite
[19:49] <ali1234> it's very good
[19:50] <ali1234> upgraded graphics without ruining the feel of the original
[19:50] <ali1234> there's an addon pack with high detail ships which you definitely need to get
[19:50] <dwatkins> The Maste 128 version of Elite was neat.
[19:50] <gordonjcp> well, the Archimedes was basically the same but with shaded polys
[19:50] <exobuzz> yeh arch version is decent too
[19:50] <gordonjcp> I liked the dual-mode screen trick
[19:50] <dwatkins> I still havn't gotten around to getting an Archimedes.
[19:50] <dwatkins> I tried emulators, but they seemed half-done.
[19:51] <jibadeeha> oolite looks fantastic ... guess what i am doing on Friday while the missus watches the wedding
[19:51] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: I *had* an A3000, no idea where it is
[19:51] <gordonjcp> I may have given it to someone
[19:51] <exobuzz> archs can be picked up pretty cheap on ebay
[19:51] <jibadeeha> anyone remember Timegate - loved that game on the speccy
[19:51] <dwatkins> gordonjcp: nice, I look forward to having the space for one
[19:51] <gordonjcp> exobuzz: 8-bit computing sucks
[19:51] <gordonjcp> exobuzz: I prefer 12-bit computing
[19:52] <exobuzz> jibadeeha, yeh elite vs royal wedding. its like no competition.
[19:52] <exobuzz> gordonjcp, pdp ?
[19:52] <gordonjcp> oolite basically looks like Archimedes Elite with a bit of GL blur
[19:52] <gordonjcp> exobuzz: PDP8, yeah
[19:53] <gordonjcp> I'd love to get a real one
[19:53] <gordonjcp> failing that, build a clone
[19:53] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, i might spend a day just playing spectrum games .. the graphics were not good but those games are really playable
[19:53] <gordonjcp> I had a PDP11/73 which is 16-bit
[19:53] <exobuzz> gordonjcp, heh. got the space ?
[19:53] <ali1234> funny thing about oolite is they added the ability to buy different ships - but it turns out cobra mk III is the best ship anyway
[19:53] <exobuzz> jibadeeha, did you like chaos ?
[19:53] <gordonjcp> exobuzz: well a DECMate is desktop PC sized, but has a PDP8-compatible processor
[19:53] <dwatkins> ali1234: have you played Frontier Elite II?
[19:53] <jibadeeha> we had Archimedes at school ... it use to run RiscOS
[19:53] <ali1234> yes frontier sucks
[19:53] <dwatkins> They made a PDP11 built into a desk.
[19:53] <exobuzz> i lost a year on frontier elite 2. i liked it
[19:53] <gordonjcp> jibadeeha: Timegate!
[19:54] <ali1234> frontier = how not to update a classic game
[19:54] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, loved it .. but then again i love all the old games
[19:54] <ali1234> oolite = how to do it right
[19:54] <jibadeeha> gordonjcp, Timegate was an absolute classic
[19:54] <exobuzz> jibadeeha, my other fave agme - starquake
[19:54] <gordonjcp> jibadeeha: that was stunning
[19:55] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, oh not tried that ... have you played chronus .. similar to defender
[19:55] <exobuzz> jibadeeha, rings a bell so i may well have done. ill check it out
[19:55] <ali1234> oolite ships addon: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Griff_Industries
[19:56] <dwatkins> haha, the previous version of oolite is apparently *more* prone to crashing than the current beta
[19:56] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, whoops it is chronos not chronus - mastertronic 1987
[19:56] <gordonjcp> exobuzz: I wrote a PDP8 emulator, but it sucks a bit
[19:57] <exobuzz> starquake on the spectrum. quality game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfKZvfLhWk
[19:57] <exobuzz> jibadeeha, aah tim follin music nice!
[19:58] <exobuzz> r-type on the spectrum was a decent conversion
[19:58] <exobuzz> gordonjcp, linkage ?
[19:59] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, starquake looks great - love that type of game.. it reminds me of sabrewulf which is one of my all time favourites
[20:00] <exobuzz> the ultimate stuff was erm stephen crows inspiration partly. there is a 6 page starquake special in this months "retro gamer" mag
[20:00] <gordonjcp> exobuzz: I'd need to find it
[20:00] <gordonjcp> exobuzz: and then work out how to make it compile in GCC4
[20:01] <exobuzz> gordonjcp, no rush ;-) heh
[20:01] <exobuzz> starquake speccy version was much better than the c64 - even the sound was better, which is unusual
[20:02] <exobuzz> but then thats often the case with conversion done by other people i guess
[20:03] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, turns out i've got a starquak.sna in my games directory so going to try it
[20:03] <exobuzz> :) its quite involved. huge map
[20:04] <exobuzz> great fun exploring
[20:04] <mgdm> Starquack. Now there's a name for a game.
[20:04] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, you remember those maps people use to publish in YS
[20:04] <exobuzz> yeh
[20:04] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, mine never ever got published lol
[20:05] <exobuzz> jibadeeha, for what game ?
[20:06] <exobuzz> or you did many ?
[20:06] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, where time stood still
[20:06] <exobuzz> aah yeh i remember that. same engine as the great escape right ?
[20:06] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, oh and great escape, sabrewulf
[20:06] <dutchie> anyone know if it is possible to make gnome-screensaver use a webpage as a screensaver?
[20:06] <jibadeeha> exobuzz, yeah denton designs i think .. two great games imho
[20:06] <exobuzz> great escape was fab. and challenging
[20:07] <jibadeeha> the wire cutters and chocolate bar
[20:08] <exobuzz> dutchie, http://www.bitsonwire.com/?p=209
[20:20] <dutchie> exobuzz: that seems kludgy
[20:25] <hamitron> pie?
[20:31] <DJones> pie not :)
[20:36] <AlanBell> the live podcast is going on now
[20:37] <hamitron> I can't bring myself to use something called "podcast", sounds too apple for me :/
[20:38] <BigRedS> haha, yeah, it always seems like it should have superscript tm after it
[20:50] <exobuzz> dutchie, gnome-screensaver is useless. that's the problem
[20:51] <dwatkins> yeah, I much prefer xscreensaver, especially the glmatrix one
[20:54] <jibadeeha> dwatkins, is that the matrix one that shows the characters fading in and out?
[20:54] <dwatkins> yeah jibadeeha - very nice, especially as a background with the option to not turn it around
[20:54] <dwatkins> jibadeeha: http://rowla.dyndns.org/gallery/v/screenshots/glmatrix_desktop.png.html
[20:55] <jibadeeha> dwatkins, i use to use that but once upgraded ubuntu and it vanished and replaced it with a 3d rotational matrix type screen saver which isn't as good
[20:55] <dwatkins> yeah, the rotation makes me a little dizzy, so I disable it
[20:56] <jibadeeha> dwatkins, ah that is the one i am using now, but i don't think it is as good as the old one i used where the matrix characters like Neo and Agent Smith appear
[20:56] <dwatkins> ah matrixview
[20:56] <dwatkins> each to their own :)
[20:57] <jibadeeha> thanks dwatkins - was wondering what it was called
[20:57] <dwatkins> you're welcome, jibadeeha
[21:05] <jibadeeha> dwatkins, just tried MatrixView and on seconds thoughts it is not as good as i remember it to be ..GLMatrix is better lol
[21:06] <dwatkins> jibadeeha: I'm glad you think so too ;)
[22:08] <AlanBell> you can now (as of 10 minutes ago) select the Ubuntu font in Google Docs
[22:09] <mgdm> nice
[22:40] <shauno> good lord.  that sony thing's gonna be big news in the morning
[22:42] <Azelphur> indeed
[22:46] <AlanBell> dear everyone, hope you don't have a PS3, love Sony
[22:46] <bigcalm> I don't, quite pleased about it too :)
[22:46] <brobostigon> lol
[22:47] <AlanBell> PS2 and Wii for us
[22:47] <bigcalm> Same here, though I can't remember the last time I used my PS2
[22:48] <shauno> not sure I'd go as far as pleased.  egg on sony's face, sure.  but that's pure suckage for 50-75 million customers
[22:48] <dwatkins> What happened? Last I heard the Playstation Network was down.
[22:48] <shauno> http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/04/26/update-on-playstation-network-and-qriocity/
[22:48] <AlanBell> http://faq.en.playstation.com/cgi-bin/scee_gb.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?locale=en_GB&p_faqid=5593
[22:48] <dwatkins> thanks
[22:48] <shauno> short version; full data breach, account details, billing details, possibily creditcard details
[22:49] <AlanBell> really short version: p0wned
[22:50] <dwatkins> That's a rather large oops, I wonder if it will affect people as much as the RSA break-in.
[22:51] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[22:51] <AlanBell> people have heard of the playstation network
[22:51] <dwatkins> nn brobostigon
[22:51] <brobostigon> night dwatkins
[22:52] <bigcalm> Night brobostigon
[22:52] <brobostigon> night bigcalm
[22:52] <dwatkins> AlanBell: RSA make one-time password dongles for US military contractors and many others - when the break-in happened, they switched to Verisign, I gather.
[22:53] <AlanBell> yes, but still that doesn't affect "people"
[22:53] <dwatkins> true, AlanBell
[22:54] <shauno> the scariest part of the RSA breach is that they still have no idea what was & wasn't taken
[22:55] <Azelphur> I'm loving it myself, hopefully it'll loose sony tonnes of money
[22:55] <Azelphur> :p
[22:55] <bigcalm> Insurance
[22:56] <bigcalm> AlanBell: what effects "people" is the Ubuntu font!
[22:56] <AlanBell> that affects people
[22:56]  * hamitron has NEVER bothered changing fonts
[22:56] <AlanBell> to good effect
[22:59] <ali1234> lol sony
[23:02] <popey> indeed
[23:03] <ali1234> the real story is that it looks like the intrusion was enabled by the jailbreaking of the console itself
[23:03] <ali1234> what this means is you should never trust any "cloud" service that requires you do use closed clients to access it
[23:04] <ali1234> because there's probably a reason why they do that, and it's never a good one
[23:04] <ali1234> note that i said "trust" not "use"
[23:04] <ali1234> use PSN if you want but don't put your real name and CC into it
[23:05] <Azelphur> this is why I like paypal for payments, as much as paypal is evil and messed up, they have pretty good security when it comes to payments
[23:06] <ali1234> well yeah
[23:06] <ali1234> they are compatible with any web browser
[23:06] <ali1234> if they said "if you want to use paypal you have to use this piece of software which we don't release the source for" then i would be highly suspicious
[23:06] <Azelphur> indeed
[23:06] <shauno> just don't keep a positive balance with them, else you'll discover how boneheaded that security can be :)
[23:06] <Azelphur> ali1234: more that even if someone did get my paypal payment information, they can only request a payment from me, not take a fradulant one.
[23:07] <Azelphur> shauno: indeed
[23:07] <popey> i have a paypal account I can't get money out of because they changed the ToC and demands some paperwork it's impossible for me to provide
[23:07] <ali1234> Azelphur: what if someone breaks into paypal servers and gets your CC or bank details, name, address etc
[23:07] <hamitron> Azelphur: even if they get your password?
[23:07] <Azelphur> popey: indeed, hense the evil and messed up statement xD
[23:07] <ali1234> paypal stores your details for payments just like PSN does
[23:07] <Azelphur> hamitron: no but you don't have to give someone your password for a payment
[23:07] <Azelphur> with a CC you give them the CC number and they can withdraw any amount they feel like whenever they like
[23:08] <Azelphur> with paypal, they can only request a payment and you have to authorize it
[23:08] <shauno> popey: I've got an account I can't pull funds from because they want the last 4 digits of a credit card that expired in 2002.
[23:08] <hamitron> but your bank is normally reasonably helpful when it happens tbh
[23:08] <Azelphur> hamitron: not with debit cards I hear?
[23:09] <shauno> I don't know anyone who keeps old cards around that long :/
[23:09] <hamitron> shauno: are you not asked to destroy them? ;)
[23:09] <Azelphur> lol
[23:09] <shauno> my bank's normally pretty on the ball with debit too.  I think the main fear with debit is they're taking your money, not the banks', so there's less pushing the banks to act
[23:09] <Azelphur> what would be nice, if credit cards did a more paypal-ish type thing
[23:09] <shauno> but, I've never had a problem with it myself
[23:10] <Azelphur> where when a payment was requested you got emailed and had to authorize the payment
[23:10] <Azelphur> that'd be so win
[23:10] <hamitron> my sister had a problem with vodaphone withdrawing money twice, the bank reversed it no probs
[23:10] <shauno> v4v does something similar, but I don't know if that works over here
[23:10] <Azelphur> hamitron: nice
[23:11] <ali1234> my bank does that already
[23:11] <hamitron> they even refunded the unautherised overdraft charges
[23:11] <ali1234> except that they don't email me, they ring me up the next day and ask if i really bought that
[23:11] <Azelphur> lol
[23:11] <ali1234> but this is probably because i only use my card about twice a year
[23:12] <hamitron> ali1234: yeh, my Dad cba to use his anymore cuz of it :D
[23:12] <Azelphur> indeed
[23:12] <hamitron> gets some paki he can't understand on the phone
[23:12] <shauno> mine are usually on the ball.  which can be annoying because I'm pretty nocturnal at times.  but I can't make significant purchases online at 4am
[23:12] <hamitron> and gets annoyed
[23:13] <Azelphur> I'm thinking of switching, Satander just bought out my bank :(
[23:13] <Azelphur> and everyone pretty much universally agrees they are terrible
[23:13] <hamitron> :/
[23:13] <hamitron> name a good bank? ;/
[23:13] <Azelphur> haha
[23:13] <Azelphur> dunno, I've heard good things about barclays
[23:13] <shauno> that is one side, being able to understand people.  if I call my bank, I get thru to dublin.  I honestly find the indian subcontinent easier to understand
[23:14] <popey> Smile
[23:14] <popey> Egg
[23:14] <popey> Co-Op
[23:14] <popey> Allegedly good banks
[23:14] <popey> never used any of them :)
[23:14] <popey> (agree Santander are utterly useless)
[23:14] <Azelphur> smile, the internet bank :o
[23:14] <hamitron> shauno: i just expect someone local to where I am :/
[23:14] <ali1234> i use barclays
[23:14] <Azelphur> sounds like my sort of thing
[23:14] <ali1234> always get understandable people when they call me
[23:15] <ali1234> no idea where they are based but i can understand them
[23:15] <Azelphur> Covers up to 4 handsets in your household to the value of £600 each (including VAT) for theft, loss or damage.
[23:15] <Azelphur> shiny :D
[23:15] <hamitron> is it Natwest that let you talk to your local branch manager?
[23:16] <shauno> I don't want to talk to a manager.  I want someone who'll answer the phone at 4am :)
[23:16] <hamitron> haha shauno
[23:16] <ali1234> but my original point was, since paypal have to deal with standard browsers, they have to make their servers secure
[23:16] <ali1234> with PSN, it's looking suspiciously like the majority of the security was in the console
[23:17] <hamitron> is it a good idea having your address verified on paypal?
[23:17] <ali1234> i never needed it so i never verifired
[23:17] <shauno> it doesn't make any difference for most people
[23:17] <Azelphur> xD
[23:17] <ali1234> no longer have a paypal account though
[23:17] <Azelphur> hamitron: yea most people won't deal with you without it
[23:17] <shauno> if you're accepting payments, it's nice to have.  makes you look more like you might exist
[23:18] <Azelphur> shauno: a lot of ebayers won't deal with unverified users too
[23:18] <hamitron> I have all mine verified and linked with one of my accounts
[23:18] <shauno> Azelphur: I've never had a problem with that at all
[23:18] <hamitron> ah, I think that is maybe why I did it
[23:18] <Azelphur> I see o.O
[23:18] <ali1234> i never even noticed if the people i bought from were verified or not
[23:19] <hamitron> I bought a motorbike using paypal
[23:19] <hamitron> :)
[23:19] <shauno> I did it on my last account, because I was selling some stuff on ebay.  didn't stop them taking the account for kicks and giggles :/
[23:19] <hamitron> :\
[23:19] <ali1234> if you have money trapped in paypal, why can't you just make a new account and transfer the money?
[23:20] <shauno> because your money's not trapped in the new account
[23:20] <Azelphur> ^
[23:20] <hamitron> "gift" £100s across? ;/
[23:20] <ali1234> so you can't even buy things with that paypal?
[23:20] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea, they entirely lock the account down
[23:20] <shauno> I can't even login to it confirm what the balance was
[23:20] <popey> i cant move the money
[23:20] <popey> i can login to the old account
[23:20] <ali1234> sue em
[23:20] <hamitron> why would they lock it?
[23:20]  * popey tries to remember the password
[23:20] <Azelphur> ali1234: there's some serious horror stories with paypal, long story short if you use them do not keep anything in your balance
[23:21] <Azelphur> get it moved to your bank asap :P
[23:21] <ali1234> i know
[23:21] <shauno> hamitron: I failed a 'random' check because I couldn't provide the details for a card that hadn't existed for 8 years
[23:21] <Azelphur> sometimes they'll even reverse bank transfers, that said
[23:21] <Azelphur> shauno: lol
[23:21] <hamitron> shauno: :/
[23:21] <hamitron> I think I may go check none of my old cards are in there :)
[23:21] <shauno> I may still have the email chain somewhere, where they sent me back the same form reply 6 or 7 times, while my replies got more and more insulting
[23:21] <shauno> until I finally decided $20 wasn't worth it
[23:22] <ali1234> small claims
[23:22] <shauno> I can't do small claims
[23:22] <ali1234> wrong country?
[23:22] <shauno> yeah.  paypal-us and -eu are separate legal entities.  I'd have to go back to the US to do so
[23:22] <Azelphur> the other day I got locked out of my paypal account
[23:23] <Azelphur> they sent me an email saying "On , we attempted to transfer  from your bank account, ending in . This transfer was returned by your bank on  for the reason below: There was a bank processing error. "
[23:23] <hamitron> 1 thing that annoys me with paypal
[23:23] <Azelphur> I havn't removed the information, that's actually what they sent me, so they tried to withdraw null from the account ending in null on null, and it failed, so they locked down my account
[23:23] <Azelphur> xD
[23:23] <hamitron> I have an account and CC on it
[23:23] <hamitron> and the CC can't be selected as the primary payment method
[23:25] <ali1234> how about those pre-pay credit cards? anyone used those?
[23:25] <shauno> yeah.  used one called 3v for a while.  not that annoying, really
[23:25] <Azelphur> popey: just looked at smile, it has a £250/day limit on the debit cards which seems kinda crap :(
[23:26] <Azelphur> I dunno what the limit is on my A&L card, but I've done 1.3k in one day on it.
[23:26] <Azelphur> that was in one payment, too \o/
[23:26] <hamitron> limits are nice to have, until you need to break them
[23:27] <Azelphur> indeed
[23:27] <Azelphur> I do break £250, As a gadgety person I do spend more than £250 in one spot every now and again.
[23:32] <hamitron> Azelphur: did you sort out your modem and router?
[23:32] <hamitron> or routers
[23:32] <Azelphur> hamitron: nah, my dad stole the router/internet connection
[23:33] <Azelphur> :(
[23:33] <hamitron> :/
[23:33] <hamitron> well
[23:33] <Azelphur> gonna order a third phone line tomorrow most likely \o/
[23:33] <hamitron> haha
[23:33] <hamitron> I have a dd-wrt router also, with just an ethernet wan port
[23:33] <ali1234> how do i organize the icons on unity launcher?
[23:34] <Azelphur> hamitron: yea, I still have my DD-WRT router with the ethernet wan port
[23:34] <Azelphur> hamitron: how do you connect it to ADSL, what do you use as a bridge?
[23:34] <hamitron> is there a way for a "modem" to convert my PPPoA to PPPoE for my router? without the modem collecting the IP level info
[23:35] <ali1234> yes
[23:35] <hamitron> my reason for wondering is.... support for IPv6
[23:35] <Azelphur> hamitron: I believe A/E is the same thing, I've never had issues dialing E on my connection that's supposed to be A
[23:35] <hamitron> ali1234: what is it called?
[23:35] <ali1234> A is not over ethernet
[23:35] <Azelphur> true :p
[23:35] <Azelphur> but it works *shrug*
[23:36] <popey> ali1234: hold down mouse, pull away from left
[23:36] <hamitron> I want my "modem" to convert my routers signal from ethernet to ATM
[23:36] <ali1234> no it doesn't, if it does, your routers interface is just confused
[23:36] <popey> move down/up to place it
[23:36] <Azelphur> ali1234: dd-wrt is clearly confused :D
[23:36] <ali1234> popey: what?
[23:36] <popey> 23:33:51 < ali1234> how do i organize the icons on unity launcher?
[23:36] <ali1234> yeah
[23:36] <ali1234> how do i move up/down?
[23:36] <popey> hold down mouse on an icon, pull it to the right
[23:37] <popey> then move it up/down
[23:37] <ali1234> oh
[23:37] <ali1234> i see
[23:37] <ali1234> well that's not very obvious
[23:37] <Azelphur> hamitron: but yea I'd be interested in a proper way to do it so lemme know what you come up with
[23:38] <hamitron> Azelphur: my modem/router has loads of options
[23:38] <Azelphur> -631152000
[23:38] <Azelphur> whoops.
[23:38] <hamitron> just not sure how to read the definitions
[23:38] <hamitron> :/
[23:38] <Azelphur> as to quite how I managed to paste there when I was nowhere near V I have no idea o.O
[23:38] <hamitron> like, it has a bridge option....
[23:39] <ali1234> anything that has a adsl modem in it supports pppoa
[23:39] <hamitron> ali1234: my 2nd router does not
[23:39] <ali1234> how does it connect to adsl then?
[23:40] <hamitron> I want my first router to do the ATM part, then 2nd router to do the PPP and IP
[23:40] <hamitron> atm, my 1st router is in half-bridge mode
[23:40] <ali1234> pppoa = ppp over telephone lines
[23:41] <ali1234> pppoe = ppp over ethernet cable
[23:41] <hamitron> I know
[23:41] <ali1234> if you get adsl over telephone cable, you are using pppoa
[23:41] <hamitron> and how do i convert between the 2?
[23:41] <hamitron> using a router
[23:41] <ali1234> you install a pppoe server on the router 1
[23:41] <ali1234> then set up router 2 to use it
[23:42] <hamitron> and router 1 then gets no IP?
[23:42] <ali1234> presumably if you set it up right
[23:43] <hamitron> so i can't bridge the PPPoE to PPPoA?
[23:44] <ali1234> ppp isn't a type of protocol that can be bridged
[23:44] <hamitron> so router 1 just forwards the PPP authentification
[23:44] <ali1234> it is point to point
[23:45] <hamitron> can't something sit between the 2 points?
[23:45] <ali1234> yes
[23:46] <ali1234> but that isn't bridging
[23:46] <hamitron> what is it called?
[23:46] <ali1234> i dunno. proxying?
[23:47] <hamitron> I can set my router 1 to connect to the dsl link without PPP
[23:47] <hamitron> then just need the PPP from the router 2 to get sent and communicate directly
[23:47] <hamitron> but the docs for router 1 are poor to say the least
[23:47] <ali1234> no
[23:48] <ali1234> you won't be able to do this with standard firmware on a consumer router
[23:48] <ali1234> best you will get is a half bridge which has nothing to do with ppp at all
[23:48] <hamitron> half-bridge doesn't solve my lack of IPv6 problem
[23:48] <hamitron> :/
[23:48] <ali1234> yes
[23:49] <ali1234> you will have to buy a new modem or hack the one you have
[23:49] <hamitron> my problem is, dunno what I am looking for....
[23:49] <hamitron> the name of the function
[23:50] <ali1234> you are looking for a modem that supports ipv6... why complicate it?
[23:50] <hamitron> I don't wanna spend more money
[23:50] <hamitron> ;/
[23:50] <ali1234> so hack the modem... install ipv6 support
[23:50] <ali1234> or hack the modem, install a weird ppp bodge
[23:50] <ali1234> which sounds easier?
[23:51] <hamitron> ppp bodge
[23:51] <hamitron> ;/
[23:51] <shauno> or just wait until your isp does ipv6 and let them buy you one :)
[23:51] <ali1234> the ISP must already support ipv6 for this to work
[23:51] <ali1234> if you are using a tunnel then the routers are irrelevant
[23:51] <hamitron> it doesn't
[23:51] <hamitron> atm I use a tunnel, but want to be ready when the ISP change
[23:51] <shauno> eh, tunnels don't make the router irrelevant
[23:52] <shauno> my router's my endpoint
[23:52] <ali1234> and routers prior to the endpoint are irrelevant
[23:54] <shauno> prior to the endpoint is just a modem.  the router does the work.  it's meant to :)
[23:54] <hamitron> so what is the bridge function on a router?
[23:54] <hamitron> :/
[23:54] <shauno> sticking the endpoint on your desktop because your router's lame is just a bodge
[23:55] <ali1234> if you're talking about a setting labelled "bridge" in the webif of a consumer router, it could mean just about anything
[23:55] <ali1234> shauno: he has two routers
[23:55] <ali1234> shauno: currently configured for half bridge
[23:55] <ali1234> this won't affect running a tunnel endpoint on router 2 at all
[23:58] <hamitron> tbh, just hoping C&W move into my exchange sometime
[23:59] <hamitron> then will get a new router and forget all this complicated setup rubbish
[23:59] <hamitron> wrt54gl can then be a toy :))