[02:02] so quiet [02:02] * pleia2 waves [02:05] * seidos rides pleia2's wave [02:06] anyone know the syntax for sending a /me in an irssi perl script? [02:07] action [02:08] so instead of /me you'd do "action #channel does cartwheels" [02:08] http://princessleia.com/modular_r2d2.php has a bunch of irssi scripts I wrote in 2003 or something [02:09] ah, action [02:09] scripts.irssi.org is also super useful for examples [02:09] lemme try that [02:09] yeah, already there [02:10] cool [02:10] searching it though was taking a long time [02:10] * pleia2 nods [02:11] goooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal [02:11] thanks [02:11] welcome :) [02:14] oh wow that's an awesome site hahah [02:43] hi akk [02:44] hi [03:25] hmmm, that's kind of disturbing that i couldn't find documentation for the action syntax [03:25] not really, irssi is poorly documented [03:25] so then it's less than "kind of" disturbing? [03:26] like, not disturbing at all? [03:26] i guess most people do the word of mouth thing [03:26] I don't know that I'd call lack of documentation for an open source project "disturbing" at all :) it's quite common [03:26] hunger is quite common :/ [03:27] I'd hardly equate human suffering with lack of documentation [03:27] there are different levels of suffering, lack of documentation is one of them [03:28] doesn't hit my "disturbing" meter though, YMMV [03:28] does it hit anything? [03:29] just my typical "ah open source and it's lack of documentation" [03:29] Hey, it's suffering -- just in a "first world problems" sense. :) [03:30] actually, i thought this was a pretty good link: http://www.irssi.org/documentation/perl [03:30] * akk is busy writing up a blog post about how much I've suffered trying to write a web app for android [03:30] (poor me :) [03:30] it was just missing something specific on "action" [03:31] isn't the action syntax just "/me does this" ? [03:31] sn9: apparently not [03:31] i gave the old "/me does this" a try, it's in perl fyi [03:31] using Irssi module [03:32] pleia2: did you see "action" used in an existin script? sample script? [03:32] probably in an existing script [03:32] is that how you learned it? [03:32] ah...hmmm [03:34] oh yeah, i got wireless from terminal working, took "a few" tries [03:34] the arch wiki didn't quite cut it [03:34] but it did help [03:34] /action does this [03:34] * sn9 does this [03:35] so /me is an alias i guess? [03:35] should be [03:35] that wasn't included in the Irssi module i guess [03:36] well, i'll use action from now on, "me" wasn't a command that worked. i'm sure i tried everything correctly [03:37] that is interesting, i must've got stuck with the /me from my mirc days or something [03:37] maybe everyone has been using /action except for me [03:37] T_T [03:37] * pleia2 uses /me [03:38] me me me, like Agent Smith [03:38] /me is shorter [03:38] quicker, more efficient [03:39] i'm considering downloading all the files on scripts.irssi.org, then using grep to find syntax i need [03:41] Not a bad idea, assuming it doesn't take forever to download them all. [03:53] it shouldn't take more than 10 min i guess [03:53] how fast is your connection akk ? [03:53] but i'll let you know :P [03:53] i'm not really in a hurry though [03:53] just be nice to have it cached [03:53] seidos: Not super fast -- it's DSL, not cable. [03:54] And we're in a backwater on the edge of San Jose. [03:54] ah [04:13] wow, 824 files in 1m6s 239K/s [04:13] there is a problem with internet infrastructure [04:13] which is...well...kind of sad [04:15] i wish i knew more about the technology [04:16] blah blah blah [04:19] hm, i'm also in SJ [04:20] i probably should be in san jose [04:20] well, there's some foss activity here === sn9 is now known as DrStrangelove === DrStrangelove is now known as sn9 [17:02] seidos: what foss activity is there here? [17:02] projectdp: you mean in so. cal? [17:03] projectdp: http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ include san jose and the surrounding area [17:03] I thought this was interesting... an Open Source Ecology idea (TED Talk 2011) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIsHKrP-66s [17:03] and do I see an Ubuntu laptop at 2 min 10 sec? [17:04] i like what the chicago loco did [17:04] made a loco out of a city [17:04] i'm sure this has been beaten to death though [17:04] a long time ago in a galaxy far far away [17:06] cool [17:06] thanks pleia2, i just emailed the svbug people :) [17:07] seidos: yeah, ubuntu chicago was established a long time ago when city locos were allowed to be approved [17:07] usually locos are *country* wide, the US was allowed to do by state [17:08] works out nicely because then the whole state can benefit from active cities [17:08] mhm [17:09] hopefully i can get more activity here in LA [17:09] It can get a little tricky in big states like CA, though, where people are so far apart. [17:09] ah, sad, my wireless terminal stuff doesn't handle sleep so well [17:10] yeah, we all just do our own local things, even in "small" states it can be a 3 hour drive across the state :) [17:10] the paradoxical sacred and profane [17:10] it's great, and not so great [17:13] cool video iheartubuntu [17:14] akk: are you talking about emotionally apart? [17:14] projectdp: No, just physically. [17:15] really it seems like we have higher person-proximity density than most other places. [17:15] I grew up in SoCal, live in NorCal now, so I just laugh at the whole rivalry thing. [17:15] I like both parts. [17:15] me too i'm here now too :) [17:15] And they're not that different except when NorCalians start going all "ooh WE DON'T WANT TO BE LIKE LA!" [17:16] the only gripe i have with LA is the car culture [17:17] or THEY'RE STEALING OUR WATER, THOSE EVIL LA PEOPLE [17:17] heh [17:17] seidos: How is the bay area not a car culture, outside of downtown SF and Berkeley/Oakland? [17:17] i wonder if folks in colorado ever think "those californians are stealing our water" [17:17] well it's kind of like a desert. and they try to keep it green [17:17] Good question, seidos. [17:18] akk: we're not as much of a car culture as LA come on.. [17:18] akk: BART i think is nicer than the light rail here [17:18] seidos: BART? I live in the south bay, what is this BART you speak of? [17:18] maybe in 10 yrs akk [17:18] akk: you know, annoying little kid on the Simpsons [17:18] heh [17:19] i suspect quantifying the difference probably isn't easy [17:19] if we compare downtown LA to SF city [17:19] hmmm, yeah, it's probably totally an illusion [17:20] not entirely [17:20] I'd say downtown SF is definitely less car oriented than downtown LA. But the outlying areas are pretty comparable, really. [17:20] BART used to appear so modern to me as a child. now it has lost that viewpoint IMO. still looks nice tho [17:20] we have some semblance of a public transportation cutlure [17:20] culture* [17:20] * iheartubuntu waits for the goldline metro to arrive near my house [17:21] I try to take transit every now and then, and I find it very difficult and expensive starting from the south bay. [17:21] it's one of the only systems in the state like it [17:21] auto-best [17:21] even though it sucks compared to all of europe [17:22] Or any east coast US city. [17:22] Or Portland or Seattle (not sure about Seattle, been a long time) [17:22] i have always either flown in and taken public trans in SF or driven in, parked the car in a lot and used public trans while in SF [17:23] but last time I was in SF for a long weekend I drove the car around a lot and saw much more than i thought was possible :) [17:23] Sure, within the city of SF it's fine. The bay area is not SF. [17:23] i've only done that a handful of times to LA [17:23] that's pretty cool, i probably should do that next time, i didn't know where to park the car [17:23] and it's much more annoying [17:23] i took Bart to Berkeley from SF [17:23] wasn't too bad [17:23] wasn't too great either, i think it took an hour [17:23] loud in that section huh [17:23] yeah, as I said earlier, SF, Berkeley and Oakland. [17:24] If you only ever go to the cores of the big cities you're fine. [17:24] ive always stayed at like thepowellhotel.com and parked under union square (the hotel used to give free parking passes) [17:24] Or a few outlying places that happen to be on a BART line. [17:24] that really isn't true here in LA, since it's so big [17:24] suburban sprawl is like bacterial growth, and unfortunately, public transit doesn't automatically grow with it [17:24] LA is certainly bigger than the bay area, but the bay area is HUGE compared to SF+Berkeley+Oakland. [17:25] well, we have the Inland Empire... [17:25] its not much of an empire [17:25] or maybe that's San Diego's [17:25] don't let the emperor here you say it iheartubuntu [17:25] he has no clothes [17:27] *hear [17:28] he's probably involved in some kind of sith group thing [17:30] :) [18:24] what are awesome window managers you guys use? [18:25] screen! [18:25] Also metacity. [18:25] smh [18:25] tmux is where it's at [18:25] i approve of metacity though [18:25] I remember twm fondly. Nostalgically, anyway. [18:26] http://dominik.honnef.co/posts/2010/10/why_you_should_try_tmux_instead_of_screen/ [18:27] what about applications? [18:28] I use byobu for my screen configuration and it is very handy. [18:28] xfwm (xfce's window manager) and fluxbox [18:28] interesting i'll look at it [18:29] fluxbox is kinda minimal, I use it on my lower end laptop and on my second desktop whose only job is to be my network firewall and have a web browser [18:29] does anyone use headless machines? [18:29] dozens of them [18:30] with remote desktop? [18:30] +gui? [18:30] no, just ssh [18:30] ah [18:30] ssh -X from time to time [18:30] (but mostly that's just desktop to desktop stuff, no GUI on servers) [18:30] cool [18:30] administrator? [18:31] my job is a linux sysadmin [18:31] sweet [18:31] do you have rhce? [18:31] no, I use debian and ubuntu [18:31] ah, but isn't that /the/ linux admin cert to have? [18:32] you don't have to have any (I don't, but I did help write the ubuntu certified professionals course) [18:32] no one has to have anything [18:32] it's certainly a popular one though [18:33] i thought it was a ticket to a fairly significant salary [18:33] I use headless machines as well. Just SSH. [18:33] lol [18:33] not at all :) [18:33] some companies look at certs, some are more focused on formal education, some on experience [18:33] Certifications are largely useless in a wide array of applications. [18:34] it helps to have some of each, but nothing is a "ticket" - certainly not a cert [18:34] That's not to say that they aren't worth taking, but they're not a golden ticket! [18:34] (I lack certs and education, but I make up for it in awesomeness) [18:34] :D [18:34] thats ok too [18:35] I've found that my experience running Ubuntu events and writing has made it really easy to interest new employers. [18:35] yeah [18:35] the only problem is that there isn't much of an excuse not to represent your skills [18:35] certifications and education are expensive and time consuming, and of negligable benefit if you have experience [18:36] why is it time consuming? [18:36] (there are some companies who won't hire you without them, but I don't want to work for that kind of place anyway) [18:36] getting experience isn't always that easy, a lot of the time connections are necessary [18:36] you still have to study [18:36] so you gain benefit from the skill by studying? [18:37] you study for the test, if you have experience you are already competent in the real world [18:38] if you are in the domain for which you are studying you should also be competent in the material to some degree [18:38] but everyone is different, best thing to do is learn how you learn best and get the education, experience, certs for whatever area you're shooting for (an IT job at a traditional corporation may require certs, something at a silicon valley startup typically won't) [18:39] pratical application and test taking are very, very different beasts [18:39] if I forget the exact syntax for fstab when using UUIDs I can do a 3 second google search, can't do that when taking a test [18:40] many certs have practical elements [18:40] i mean i'm just seeing if there are any arguments that are decent against certs [18:41] maybe it is negligible standing next to a contact that can land you a job [18:41] it really depends on the person and the work you're looking for [18:41] or when you look at a couple hundred dollars and a few hundred hours of time [18:42] i think so too [18:43] so in what ways would you be jockying for a better position now? [18:44] i'm sure if you've been in the industry you would have a majority of your work represent you [18:45] personally my public open source work and sysadmin experience is plenty for the next few years [18:45] I get contacted by recruiters from impressive companies pretty often [18:45] plenty in terms of things to do? [18:45] i see [18:47] brb few more questions in a bit :) [18:53] im doing the UCP just to familiarize myself better [18:54] mostly terminal commands and such that i dont know or forget easily [18:54] ucp? [18:55] Ubuntu Certified Professional [18:55] its pretty much the same as LCP - linux cert pro [18:55] i see [18:56] its beren renamed and updated since i started. Its not the Ubuntu Professional Training http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=533 [18:56] *been [18:56] now [18:56] not not [18:56] gosh im lame lately [18:57] there is a PDF course overview at the bottom of that link [18:57] cool [18:58] "About the Course and Objectives - The Ubuntu Professional is a training course for system administrators who are [18:58] required to deploy Ubuntu into the office environment." [18:58] This hands-on course will provide participants with the skills they need to deploy and [18:58] configure Ubuntu within the office. It introduces participants to the basic skills [18:58] required of Ubuntu System Administrators. [18:58] Scenario-based exercises guide [18:58] participants on how to select appropriate solutions and tools for their organisation. [18:58] After completing this course, participants will be able to: [18:58] Install and configure Ubuntu systems [18:58] Perform routine administration tasks; manage user accounts and file systems, [18:58] and maintain system security [18:58] Configure network connectivity and key network services [18:58] Work productively at the Linux command line [18:59] * pleia2 takes paste button away from iheartubuntu [18:59] done :L|) [18:59] :) [18:59] frankly, just using ubuntu for 5 or 6 years now i know most of that stuff [18:59] even if i have to refresh my memory on commands [19:00] under "Work productively at the Linux command line" it says not to chat in the California IRC channel or you'll get absolutely nothing done [19:03] haha [19:06] :o [19:07] byobu is kinda cool [19:08] pleia2: no more about certs but how do you get to do linux admin work? [19:09] i'm just curious because i'm just starting in corporate [19:09] projectdp: I applied at a small linux shop that was hiring folks for contract work, was eventually hired full time [19:09] I was involved with the LUG so the owner of the company already knew me [19:09] cool [19:10] bay area? [19:10] nah, philadelphia [19:10] interesting [19:10] (I was living there at the time) [19:10] projectdp: Sometimes you can get started by doing sysadmin on a volunteer basis for projects, or by lower-paid work adminning machines at a college or science lab. [19:11] yeah [19:11] i like server side stuff [19:11] yeah, my volunteer sysadmining was taken into consideration when I was hired, I put all volunteer work on my resume [19:13] do you have to deal with windows networks? [19:13] I get the impression there are a lot more jobs available if you know Windows than if you're Unix/Linux only. [19:14] Though the Unix/Linux only ones are maybe higher status/higher pay (and require more experience). [19:14] projectdp: depends on what you mean by "windows networks" - a lot of the networks our servers are on have windows systems too, usually an IT department that manages an exchange server or something [19:14] but we don't touch them, the most we do is help them with network issue debugging [19:15] * pleia2 wouldn't know what to do with a Windows machine [19:15] heh [19:16] i guess i mean active directory microsoft networks [19:16] ah, no [19:18] do you deal with virtualization? [19:18] yeah, a lot of it [19:18] xen? [19:18] we've got a couple old xen systems around, but everything new is kvm [19:18] ah [19:19] hardly know anything about that [19:19] kvm is easy to experiment with even on your desktip if you have virtualized hardware [19:19] desktop [19:20] do you know much about performance given certain hardware on xen or kvm? [19:22] we've only used xen in paravirtualization mode with a hypervisor (hardware doesn't have virtualization, so it's all emulated), kvm is all hardware virtualization, so it's not comparing similar things [19:22] never done benchmarks though [19:22] hm [19:23] i was considering using xen in para with a hypervisor to run various os livecds on alien hard drives simultaneously [19:23] i was wondering if it would be very feasible or not very [19:23] with paravirt you need a xen kernel on the guest, so it's difficult [19:23] but hardware virtualization sounds nicer [19:24] with hardware virtualization the guest doesn't need to know it's a VM, so you can use regular kernels [19:25] alright well i haven't dealt much with this, before i started i wanted to get some opinions [19:25] people have been saying the hardware shouldn't be an issue [19:25] to scan several disks simultaneously with a couple os' [19:25] if you have hardware virt I'd strongly suggest kvm+libvirt [19:25] but an easy way to start out playing with virtualization is using something like virtualbox [19:26] i don't think that would have the performance would it? [19:26] no, it would be slow [19:27] i mean i really would like something that would be a light hypervisor deal that manages the guest os' [19:27] libvirt kinda fills that role [19:27] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM is quite good [19:28] oh great, now i'll be buying some hardware :) [19:28] heh, yeah, my desktop is an i7 with 8G/RAM [19:28] I do lots of test stuff on it with kvm virtualization [19:29] how well does it handle running a few os instances [19:29] much nicer than having my bedroom filled up with phyisical machines when I want to test a network infrastructure :) [19:29] ? [19:29] does fine [19:29] well like how many [19:29] and what sort of load [19:29] I've never really pushed it to the limit [19:29] what i'd be doing is like defragmenting and doing scans on a bunch of disks [19:30] I've never run windows vms [19:30] with just some light livecd os's [19:30] eep, conference call time [19:30] thanks pleia2 [19:30] ttyl [19:33] projectdp: you're going to be defragmenting and scanning multiple disks from CD-based virtual machines on the same host? [19:33] well they will be basically livecd iso's [19:33] yes [19:35] Any reason not to use an installed OS to run the utilities on the drives? [19:35] yes [19:35] it takes up an entire computer to scan one disk [19:35] i have to do scanning serially [19:35] it sucks. [19:35] and if i do other things in the mean time [19:36] i don't see stupid messages like "click ok to copy this file to backup" or something [19:36] wasting like 10 mins to a few hours [19:36] if i leave it over night or lunch [19:37] and i'm pretty sure it's not cpu intensive activity [19:37] and even if it was i think todays computers would do ok. [19:39] and now that i look at it, kvm was already suggested to me casually heh [19:39] So you're going to take a I/O-intensive operation, add a hypervisor, load multiple virtual machines, and run everything across the same system bus in parallel, with the expectation that this will make things faster? [19:40] i have no idea, thats why i was asking about feasibility on hardware [19:40] given the virtualization constraint [19:41] Why not just run the utility in parallel on the host OS? [19:41] because it's not one utility [19:42] Why not run the suite of utilities in parallel on the host OS? [19:42] ok, how? [19:43] Generally, you invoke each program seperately, once for each disk. [19:44] well here's the issue [19:44] the software is generally a bundled antivirus suite [19:44] i have about 10-15 of these [19:44] most of them are iso's [19:45] now i could go about figuring how to strip them from their bundle, and figure out how to update them for each [19:45] but that would suck [19:45] i mean for some things yeah i could run multiple instances [19:46] backing the disks up [19:48] imaging and the sort [19:49] That sounds like it'd take a lot of scripting. I'm not sure it'd be easy to do with multiple disks in parallel though. [19:50] It shouldn't be terribly hard, just annoying to get set up initially. [19:50] you mean about the iso utilities? [19:51] Yes, to set up a script to instantiate a virtual machine that boots each ISO in turn. [19:51] oh yeah thats not a problem [19:52] You can't access the same disk simultaneously with different VMs. (You *can* but you shouldn't.) [19:52] no i'm not interested in that [19:53] one os per disk at a time [19:54] That's good to hear. :) [19:54] what kind of system do you think it would take to handle something like that? [19:55] i was thinking maybe if i had a separate disk controller that it would offload a bunch of the io requests [20:07] It still all has to go over the system bus I believe. [20:08] I'd probably get a script going and benchmark it, then try it with two simultaneously. [20:10] i guess there's only one way to find out :) [20:10] i may just make the plunge anyway [20:13] i haven't had a server or a desktop of my own for quite a while [20:13] my last desktop was a p3 500mhz [20:14] They're slow but they'll run Ubuntu 5.04 without a fight. [20:14] hah hardly slow [20:14] i ran netbsd [20:14] it flew [20:15] i also had rambus memory [20:15] heh [20:15] rdram [20:41] I avoided rdram. :)