[11:10] <webczat> Hey, is there any ppa with nightlies of firefox4?
[11:10] <webczat> It has extreme number of bugs that may be fixed in nightlies. I mean firefox 4.0.
[12:09] <UndiFineD> webczat, I use namoroka (firefox beta)
[12:09] <UndiFineD> http://ppa.launchpad.net/n-muench/firefox-daily/ubuntu
[12:13] <webczat> Actually I found nightlies in another ppa already. :) I'm trying to find some major bugs that are present.
[15:13] <webczat> did anyone try firefox with orca on ubuntu natty?
[15:15] <leoquant> webczat, not yet
[16:39] <AlanBell> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-o-unity-a11y
[18:05] <hajour1> hi all
[18:52] <charlie-tca> Natty has a working screen-reader install, starting at the cd menu
[18:53] <charlie-tca> It automatically installs classic session, but it mostly works(not perfect, and not always the right words)
[18:53] <hajour1> mmm
[18:55] <charlie-tca> It does work better than what we have in maverick :-)
[18:57] <hajour1> ok 
[18:57] <hajour1> and do it work also on leight weight programs charlie-tca ?
[18:57] <charlie-tca> AlanBell: that is a lonely blueprint to subscribe to 
[18:57] <charlie-tca> hajour1: haven't tried it
[18:58]  * AlanBell keeps charlie-tca company
[18:58]  * charlie-tca hugs AlanBell 
[18:59] <hajour1> lonely bleuprint?
 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/dx-o-unity-a11y
[19:01] <charlie-tca> for UDS, you subscribe to the blueprints for the session you want to attend
[19:04] <AlanBell> the blueprints are only just becomming available so there is no massive hurry
[19:05] <hajour1> a that bleuprints
[19:05] <hajour1> thanks for the link finally 
[19:05] <hajour1> i mean finally its there
[19:44] <Pendulum> just a reminder that we have a meeting in just over 2 hours
[19:59] <hajour1> a ok thanks Pendulum  for remembering
[20:00] <hajour1> i am not on my own pc you see
[20:00] <hajour1> so i not have my notes from my tomboy here
[20:18] <AlanBell> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-accessibility-ubiquity/
[20:18] <AlanBell> maco: ^^
[20:18] <hajour1> AlanBell,  i got a problem.i can't read my mail. i got gmail    and if i enlarge there with ctrl +  the fonts are like a bad copy
[20:19] <AlanBell> is this a problem specific to gmail?
[20:20] <hajour1> i don't know but i don't dare to use my yahoo mail anymore because after the hack from my mail. there are mails send with my mail adress by someone else
[20:21] <hajour1> so i only had my gmail still to use AlanBell 
[20:21] <AlanBell> sure, but there are other websites
[20:22] <AlanBell> just looking at the gmail code now, it seems to use arial as the default font
[20:22] <hajour1> need to be save protected mail
[20:22] <AlanBell> which should end up being substituted by dejavu sans on ubuntu
[20:22] <hajour1> what means substituted?
[20:23] <AlanBell> replaced
[20:23] <AlanBell> arial is a microsoft font
[20:23] <hajour1> mm ok
[20:23] <AlanBell> which you can install on Ubuntu, but it isn't there by default
[20:23] <hajour1> UndiFineD,  looked at it and coald not change it
[20:23] <hajour1> a ok
[20:24] <hajour1> i miss my english spellingscontrol but cant change it on my daughters pc
[20:24] <hajour1> so i hope its a little ok
[20:25] <AlanBell> ok, lets try installing some extra fonts
[20:25] <hajour1> and that i have it enough automatize
[20:25] <AlanBell> this is on a full size computer now right?
[20:25] <hajour1> yes
[20:25] <AlanBell> ok, in a terminal paste this command
[20:25] <AlanBell> sudo apt-get install ttf-mscorefonts-installer
[20:25] <hajour1> her pc is2 years old
[20:25] <AlanBell> that will download some extra fonts including arial which gmail uses by default
[20:26] <hajour1> can i copy it exact like that?
[20:26] <AlanBell> yup
[20:26] <hajour1> but i not know the pastword from this pc
[20:26] <hajour1> i let UndiFineD  read back so
[20:26] <AlanBell> ah, well that won't work then!
[20:27] <hajour1> he had the change for first time in weeks to watch a movie and that is amazing with 4 teenagers in home
[20:27] <hajour1> so i will let him enjoy watching his movie
[20:28] <hajour1> AlanBell, ^
[20:28] <JanC> s/change/chance/
[20:28] <AlanBell> hajour1: if you go to settings in the top right of the gmail page
[20:28] <JanC> and let him see that movie!  ☺
[20:28] <AlanBell> then themes
[20:28] <hajour1> hehe yes i let him see the movie
[20:29] <hajour1> sec need to log in
[20:29] <AlanBell> you can change different colours and fonts
[20:29] <AlanBell> although most seem to be the same font
[20:29] <hajour1> o crap not now my password anymore in UndiFineD  his pc its in memory
[20:30] <hajour1> then i must wait
[20:30] <maco> ctrl+ is working fine on my gmail
[20:30] <AlanBell> works great for me too
[20:30] <hajour1> yesterday i suddenly was forgot my pincode from my bank pass
[20:30] <hajour1> not by me
[20:30] <hajour1> and i still not remember it
[20:31] <hajour1> have put in 2 times wrong code :S
[20:31] <AlanBell> oops
[20:31] <AlanBell> at least you won't need to change currencies for UDS
[20:31] <hajour1> so i not dare to try third time
[20:32] <hajour1> i need to go yo bank tomorrow for to ask pincode again
[20:32] <hajour1> no lucky i not need to do that
[20:32] <AlanBell> we should have gone to the Euro when everyone else did
[20:32] <AlanBell> oh, you know about the per diem allowance?
[20:33] <AlanBell> I checked with Marianna and there will be one, they just have not set the ammount yet
[20:33] <AlanBell> so basically each night you can eat in the hotel and put the meal on your room
[20:33] <AlanBell> or alternatively you can go out
[20:34] <hajour1> ok need to tell it.i have get a choice last week by doctor.lower meds and then almost nothing can do anymore allone and having ppain.or stay on this high dose .only the prize from it i probarly be de dead in about 10 years or in a coma
[20:34] <AlanBell> spend your own money and claim something like €30 (roughly)
[20:34] <AlanBell> without a receipt or anything
[20:34] <AlanBell> so you can go out and spend less than €30 and you keep the change
[20:34] <hajour1> so before that time i want to have changed things here in netherland for people with issues
[20:35] <AlanBell> or go out and spend more than €30 and have a great night out
[20:35] <hajour1> and i already working on that
[20:35] <hajour1> but do not have sorry for me
[20:35] <hajour1> be happy for me i have at least 10 good years
[20:36] <AlanBell> so you need to take something like €120 or have a bank card to go out and eat each night and you can claim it all back again at the end
[20:37] <JanC> they accept euros in Budapest?
[20:38] <hajour1> ok i hope i will have so much i already scrabbing all money together to pay my travel for to come from my vilage to the airport
[20:38] <pleia2> AlanBell: thanks for checking on per diem
[20:42] <hajour1> sorry for dropping it so suddenly.but did not know good how to tell this
[20:42] <hajour1> i think there is no easy way for it
[20:44] <hajour1> feeling now guildty for upsetting you all
[20:44] <hajour1> hope i have write it good
[20:44] <hajour1> but i have a request
[20:45] <charlie-tca> hajour1: no problem. They told me 10 years ago I would be completely handicapped by now
[20:45] <hajour1> if it is my time and speechcontrol is really made.and still needed do you think cononical would care for it it will stay up to date and good?
[20:46] <hajour1> for all people who need it
[20:46] <JanC> hajour1: 10 years is a long long time from now  ;-)
[20:46] <hajour1> have very much to do JackyAlcine 
[20:46] <hajour1> JanC, 
[20:46] <charlie-tca> got to wait and see what is still around in 10 years
[20:47] <hajour1> i need to go to government to wake them up and remembering there promisses
[20:47] <hajour1> what they had promised and have put in the law
[20:47] <hajour1> for handicap people
[20:48] <hajour1> have had many talks last week
[20:48] <hajour1> with cityhall and wsw =for handicap people adjust work
[20:48] <hajour1> and volunteer agancy
[20:49] <hajour1> and ren 4 =for help guidance to help handicaped people
[20:49] <hajour1> and have contact all kind of instances from handicaped people
[20:49] <hajour1> i maybe had no pc but have not sit still
[20:50] <hajour1> i also have help now to put a petition together
[20:50] <hajour1> we go starting after uds
[20:51] <hajour1> and till now all people i talked to are enthousiastic for my ideas
[20:51] <hajour1> they already talked to do it country wide
[20:51] <hajour1> but i said first start small
[20:52] <hajour1> build up easy
[20:52] <hajour1> but good
[20:53] <hajour1> i already have permission to put in a call by the volunteer site from that agancy and they work together with government often to
[20:53] <hajour1> thats where i was busy with last weeks
[20:53] <hajour1> so sorry for be not so much been around here last weeks
[20:54] <hajour1> but had very busy and was very tired in evening slept right after diner
[20:54] <hajour1> most of the time
[20:54] <hajour1> my 16 year old daughter was the 1 who played games on my facebook
[20:55] <hajour1> she have a problem with sleeping
[20:55] <hajour1> she not sleep more then 2 hours
[20:55] <hajour1> whole her life
[20:56] <hajour1> 2 hours in 24 hours
[20:58] <JanC> :-/
[20:58] <hajour1> you all have say me ubuntu tought is not only irc
[20:58] <hajour1> i have learned and put it in action
[20:59] <hajour1> on this way i help open source and people to get education and self mmm esteam?
[20:59] <hajour1> not know last word
[21:00] <hajour1> also to not give up
[21:00] <hajour1> never give up
[21:01]  * Pendulum heads to B&N
[21:01] <Pendulum> back when I'm set up with a nice drink and hopefully a working Nook Color
[21:02] <hajour1> what is B&N?
[21:08] <AlanBell> a bookshop
[21:08] <charlie-tca> Barnes and Nobles bookstores
[21:18] <hajour1> a ok
[21:19] <hajour1> i have get from a team member a listenbook from nietze
[21:28] <JanC> Nietzsche ?
[21:29] <JanC> that's heavy stuff !  ☺
[21:35] <hajour1> always wanted to read that but reading is very difficult for me so now i have a listenbook
[21:36] <maco> Pendulum: got your nook
[21:36] <maco> ?
[21:37] <Pendulum> maco: well, I discovered my problem was not me
[21:37] <maco> huh?
[21:37] <hajour1> ?
[21:38] <hajour1> i think i missed a lot last weeks
[21:38] <Pendulum> maco: B&N is doing work on their servers which has meant that Nooks are now reacting as if they aren't registered and then can't connect to the B&N network to confirm the registration info
[21:39] <maco> doh
[21:39] <hajour1> a ok the bookstore
[21:39] <Pendulum> so I essentially have a $250 paperweight until it's fixed
[21:39] <Pendulum> which should be sometime today
[21:40] <maco> fun stuff :(
[21:40] <Pendulum> really wishing I'd rooted my Nook before now ;-)
[21:41] <Pendulum> I think it's a bit ridiculous if their doing service on the server means I can't use my Nook. It's not like it stops working when I don't have internet access!
[21:42] <hajour1> what is a nook?
[21:42] <Pendulum> hajour1: it's a ebook reader
[21:42] <hajour1> a ok
[21:42] <hajour1> thank you Pendulum  for info
[21:42] <Pendulum> maco: to make it better, they didn't even warn their stores about this.
[22:00] <Pendulum> right, meeting time!
[22:01]  * Pendulum pokes charlie-tca AlanBell TheMuso 
[22:01] <AlanBell> o/
[22:01]  * charlie-tca waves
[22:02] <MrChrisDruif> o/
[22:02] <hajour1> o/
[22:03] <maco> o/
[22:03] <hajour1> UndiFineD,  sleeps
[22:03] <Pendulum> it is 21:00 UTC, right?
[22:03] <hajour1> he have had very busy days last time
[22:03] <charlie-tca> yup
[22:03] <JanC> 21:03
[22:03] <maco> yep
[22:03] <Pendulum> (just realised my laptop is telling me 2 different times. and the Ubuntu clock says it's 30 minutes ago)
[22:03] <hajour1> it is 23:03 here evening
[22:04] <Pendulum> right!
[22:04] <maco> Riddell: poke
[22:04] <Pendulum> agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda
[22:04] <Pendulum> it's pretty simple in that it's all about making plans for Oneric and UDS :)
[22:05] <Pendulum> oops
[22:05] <Pendulum> #startmeeting
[22:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 27 21:05:39 2011 UTC.  The chair is Pendulum. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell.
[22:05] <meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
[22:05] <hajour1> i go try to wake him up
[22:05] <hajour1> brb
[22:05] <Pendulum> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda
[22:06] <hajour1> :( cant get him awake sorry
[22:06] <MrChrisDruif> Oneiric you mean
[22:07] <Pendulum> #topic Plans for Oneiric
[22:07] <meetingology> TOPIC: Plans for Oneiric
[22:07] <maco> need a macro that types out that word with right-spelling on a certain key combo
[22:07] <charlie-tca> by the end of the cycle, I might get that right
[22:08] <Pendulum> heh, that was actually just my finger fail
[22:08] <Pendulum> so I just want to throw this pretty open for people to talk about what they'd like to work on or see worked on from the community perspective for Oneiric
[22:08] <Pendulum> I can talk about things I want
[22:08] <Pendulum> like, I'd love it if we could finally get all the personas done!
[22:08] <AlanBell> yay
[22:08] <AlanBell> so would I
[22:08] <MrChrisDruif> What is the grand scheme of Ubuntu for Ocelot?
[22:09] <AlanBell> I would like there to be some discussion around on-screen keyboards
[22:09] <AlanBell> and getting them to work with unity
[22:09] <hajour1> ok if i can get skype working i maybe can help with personas by telling info and someone else write?
[22:09] <charlie-tca> +1
[22:09] <AlanBell> and whether onboard is the way forward or caribou
[22:09] <Pendulum> I also and this is more devel, but I want to hear from Riddell and TheMuso about what's happening with Unity 2D
[22:10] <MrChrisDruif> hajour1: Doesn't Mumble work?
[22:10] <AlanBell> work out which keyboard has the best long term roadmap with things like multitouch and innovative layouts
[22:10] <AlanBell> stuff like steno keyboards and switch control etc
[22:10] <hajour1> i explain after meeting MrChrisDruif \
[22:10] <MrChrisDruif> hajour1: Alright
[22:11] <maco> MrChrisDruif: Kate tells me that accessibility will be getting a bunch of focus this time around
[22:11] <JanC> didn't they say that for natty too?  ;)
[22:11] <Pendulum> maco: they told us that last cycle and while it did to a certain extent, I have to admit I'm not holding my breath ;-)
[22:11] <maco> Pendulum: TheMuso asked in #kde-accessibility today, and QML accessibility support is in the works
[22:11] <maco> a specific developer was even mentioned!
[22:11] <maco> so its not just a SEP ;-)
[22:12] <hajour1> i will talk much ass possible i can to the people by uds
[22:12] <Cheri703> sorry, /me is late
[22:12] <MrChrisDruif> Cheri703: Welcome, we just started
[22:12] <Pendulum> I'm going to start putting some of the ideas so far into http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/OneiricA11y
[22:13] <maco> i'm going to try to convince someone to let me onto the installer team so i can whack ubiquity with an a11y stick
[22:13] <charlie-tca> maco: cjwatson would welcome that
[22:14] <maco> charlie-tca: i sent him a PM asking what the details are for joining
[22:14] <Pendulum> I think we need to put on testing again
[22:14] <Pendulum> because charlie-tca rocked hard on that this cycle
[22:14] <hajour1> is libopenmary already in natty or where we just to late?
[22:14] <MrChrisDruif> maco: Make them also downsize their memory requirement while your at it
[22:15] <maco> i talked to Riddell today in #kubuntu-devel about adding kaccessible to the kubuntu cd
[22:15] <maco> my attempts with it show it at least reading menus if not being totally useful on things like konsole
[22:15] <Cheri703> I have a small thought on testing...
[22:15] <maco> but this is a huge improvement over "this menu does nothing since hardy"
[22:15] <charlie-tca> yup
[22:16] <Pendulum> Cheri703: yes?
[22:16] <Cheri703> I know there's a wiki page that explains the testing procedures, but...it's kind of hard to just jump into it (maybe it's just me). I was thinking that perhaps some how to videos might be good? I know there are a few around, but...I dunno
[22:17] <maco> i will probably break ev's test scripts when i add useful accessible names to widgets in ubiquity :P guess i should be careful to give him heads up on those
[22:17] <Cheri703> I've wanted to help with testing, but I've felt kind of lost
[22:17] <charlie-tca> The problem is the speed of the changes is so fast
[22:17] <Cheri703> so I'm sure others probably have as well...I don't know
[22:17] <jbicha> I'm curious to see how https://live.gnome.org/Caribou is coming, I wasn't able to quite finish building it from source though
[22:17] <maco> (because the test script uses the accessible name, and itll be changing to something humans can use)
[22:17] <jbicha> it's Gnome's new onscreen keyboard
[22:17] <charlie-tca> We get a video, and the next day it is obsolete
[22:17] <Pendulum> jbicha: you and me both!
[22:18] <Pendulum> jbicha: there was a long thing over the weekend with AlanBell and joanie in #a11y on Gnome's IRC server
[22:18] <MrChrisDruif> jbicha: What was the old?
[22:18] <maco> Pendulum: there's no hope for Dasher anymore, eh?
[22:18] <maco> MrChrisDruif: Gok for GNOME, but ubuntu always used OnBoard
[22:18] <jbicha> I'd like to try to get it packaged but that is likely beyond my abilities
[22:18] <Cheri703> true charlie-tca 
[22:19] <joanie> maco Dasher isn't hopeless. But progress on converting it away from CSPI I think was the issue
[22:19] <AlanBell> jbicha: there will be .deb files (just not yet)
[22:19] <charlie-tca> Dasher is a different creature than Onboard. Can't we get both into the accessibility options?
[22:19] <maco> jbicha: i expect itll get packaged for oneiric by the desktop-team just because all gnome stuff seems to
[22:19] <Pendulum> for those who are unaware, the issue with onBoard is that it has no developers. AFAIK it was a Google Summer of Code project and then kinda just has stayed static
[22:19] <AlanBell> hi joanie 
[22:19]  * MrChrisDruif would like Ubuntu going Gnome 3 for Ocelot
[22:19]  * joanie waves to AlanBell 
[22:19] <Cheri703> possibly have a "intro to testing" thing? like on the testing page, have a "on mondays between xtime and ytime people will be available to answer questions about testing"  I know some folks are around generally, but...just an idea
[22:20] <Pendulum> I'm also unsure how Dasher will look on Unity
[22:20] <jbicha> MrChrisDruif: that's already happening, just with the Unity & Unity 2D shells
[22:20] <maco> joanie: sorry, what's CSPI? and i was actually referring to a specific thing Pendulum and i had talked about before, where with AT-SPI2 it was going to be losing direct input mode
[22:20] <charlie-tca> Cheri703: I like that idea. I would work with you on that
[22:20] <Cheri703> ok
[22:20] <MrChrisDruif> Cheri703: I think a workshop would be better
[22:20] <joanie> maco cspi are the c-based AT-
[22:20] <joanie> SPI1 bindings
[22:20] <Cheri703> perhaps start with a workshop and then ALSO have the q&a time
[22:21] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: note that testing page idea, with QA weekly or monthly
[22:21] <maco> joanie: and "everyone just copies and pastes from our text editor" seemed like the sort of thing someone who never uses IRC/IM would say
[22:21] <Pendulum> would people (probably mostly charlie-tca) be interested in running the initial testing workshop in #ubuntu-classroom?
[22:21] <MrChrisDruif> Cheri703: During and after a workshop people can ask questions...but after a workshop it's easier
[22:21] <joanie> maco sorry, you lost me on that last one
[22:21] <Pendulum> joanie: it was one of the early answers to 'what do we do with Dasher in Gnome3'
[22:21] <charlie-tca> sure, we could do that in -classroom
[22:22] <maco> Pendulum: has it changed?
[22:22] <Pendulum> maco: it moved to 'well you can compile it without [forgets which bit] and it works at least somewhat'
[22:23] <maco> joanie: Dasher can input into apps directly or into its own little text editor, and the direct input option was talking about being removed because "nobody uses it" but...typing into a separate window then copying & pasting everything would be annoying/slow
[22:23] <maco> for conversations
[22:23] <joanie> maco gotcha
[22:23] <Pendulum> anyway, I think we're bikeshedding a little on the Dasher thing
[22:23] <Pendulum> maybe move it to later/or the Gnome a11y channel ;-)
[22:23] <maco> kk
[22:25] <Pendulum> so we've got personas, Unity 2D issues, Onscreen Keyboards, Ubiquity, and Testing. What else are people interested in focusing on?
[22:25] <Cheri703> visibility of the team/project...
[22:25] <maco> and in with that:  developer awareness
[22:25] <hajour1> UndiFineD,  is typing
[22:26] <maco> i think a "Better Practices in Accessibility" session at UDS would be handy
[22:26] <Cheri703> I think that a lot of people don't know that this stuff can be useful to more than just disabled folks
[22:26] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: will you be able to continue the sessions with jono?
[22:26] <maco> "Best Practices" might be getting a bit ahead of ourselves though ;-)
[22:26] <UndiFineD> morning, one thing that bugged me for natty is, the login, it is not accessible and improvements must be made there to allow people to use on screen keyboard, fingerprint reading, facial or voice recognition
[22:26] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I have to check with him, but I think someone from a11y should be doing them
[22:26] <maco> whereas i think a lot of developers have no idea they're Doin It Wrong ;-)
[22:26] <Pendulum> maco: do you mean as a plenary?
[22:27] <MrChrisDruif> UndiFineD: Or for security a combination of the above
[22:27] <UndiFineD> yes
[22:27] <maco> Pendulum: i think a plenary with some short "here's the stuff to watch for" and ending in "meet in $room at $time for a howto session" could be handy
[22:27] <Pendulum> UndiFineD: that's what maco plans on working on with the installer team
[22:27] <Pendulum> the question is, do we have anyone going to UDS who can run it
[22:27] <Pendulum> TheMuso: are you here or are you asleep?
[22:27] <maco> Pendulum: the login screen and the installer are two different things
[22:27] <Cheri703> I think for people who aren't necessarily devs but might be able to help don't necessarily know about the project/needs
[22:28] <Pendulum> maco: bah, that was my brain misreading
[22:28] <UndiFineD> Pendulum, what do you mean by 'run' ?
[22:28] <Pendulum> UndiFineD: someone who can lead it
[22:28] <maco> i can add atk hints to ubiquity (now that ive sorta learned how and know what 3 lines would break it if i tried right now), and i intend to work on the live cd splash screen for kubuntu, but i dont know much about gdm or kdm, and last time i touched kdm i learned the main developer is hostile toward new folks
[22:28] <UndiFineD> hajour is going to uds, she will speak up, it is what she does best
[22:28] <AlanBell> someone who can stand up in front of several hundred people
[22:29] <Pendulum> I think TheMuso would be the best person to lead sessions on making things accessible in terms of knowledge, but he's not here to agree
[22:29] <Pendulum> (of the people I know will be at UDS)
[22:29] <charlie-tca> I can if need be.
[22:29] <charlie-tca> As long as I can prepare, I will be able to do either session leads or plenary
[22:29] <JanC> UndiFineD: fingerprints & face recognition are no substitutes for passwords (I can explain why later), but maybe they can replace the "user chooser"...
[22:30] <UndiFineD> I know JanC , but it would make things easier
[22:30] <Pendulum> because for those who don't know plenaries are pretty much supposed to be of the top quality info and I feel like for such a session we need someone who has had a lot of experience with a11y development
[22:30] <UndiFineD> the trouble is in modules for the login
[22:31] <Pendulum> (no offense meant charlie-tca)
[22:31] <maco> charlie-tca: when i get home i can dig up the gnome link thats like "10 things to make sure you do, with code examples"
[22:31] <charlie-tca> I agree, Pendulum. It would be best if we get TheMuso to do them
[22:31]  * Pendulum assigns herself a task
[22:31] <charlie-tca> but I will take a standby on them, if you want
[22:31] <maco> (and glade can do many of them if the non-coders want to help)
[22:31] <MrChrisDruif> Pendulum: #action?
[22:32] <Pendulum> #action Pendulum to talk to TheMuso about his running a 'best practices in a11y devel plenary/session at UDS'
[22:32] <meetingology> ACTION: Pendulum to talk to TheMuso about his running a 'best practices in a11y devel plenary/session at UDS'
[22:32] <MrChrisDruif> :D
[22:32] <UndiFineD> :)
[22:32] <Pendulum> if we don't do it this UDS (we just may not have time to really pull something good together), we should definitely do it next UDS
[22:32] <Pendulum> jbicha: would you be interested in working with people this cycle on getting better documentation?
[22:33] <maco> emails to ubuntu-devel on occasion to remind everyone what things to do might be obnoxiously helpful as well.  i have the impression Planet Ubuntu is too much for most devs to bother with after they've already spent 2 hours on mailing lists 
[22:33] <MrChrisDruif> Pendulum: Then we should start making plans for that one as well?
[22:33] <Pendulum> MrChrisDruif: not at least for another month!
[22:33] <maco> for example, when documentation like Pendulum just mentioned is written/updated, notify u-d
[22:33] <MrChrisDruif> Agreed, but still: keep it going. That's what I meant :)
[22:34] <Pendulum> I do want to point out that we're probably going to either need to pare this down or motivate a lot more people and get a lot more done this cycle
[22:34] <Pendulum> s/this/next
[22:34] <joanie> Pendulum: Or alternatively partner with similar efforts upstream ;-)
[22:35] <Pendulum> joanie: that would count under more people ;-)
[22:35] <UndiFineD> that is true, and for that also, hajours plans to draw in volunteers
[22:35] <maco> Cheri703: think you could help me with Ubiquity? a lot of what needs to be done can be done through a GUI instead of editing code
[22:35] <jbicha> Pendulum: yes I can help in documentation a11y stuff
[22:35] <Cheri703> maco: sure :) I may need some handholding at first, but yeah
[22:35] <AlanBell> would be nice to get the ubuntu manual team to do some documentation and the official book
[22:35] <UndiFineD> jbicha, great I am happy to help there
[22:35] <maco> Cheri703: cool!
[22:35] <Cheri703> if it's non-coding, I'm all for it :)
[22:35] <Pendulum> we started out Natty cycle with lots of push and then it kinda died down for various reasons and we need to figure out how to maintain the energy this cycle
[22:36] <AlanBell> was a bit poor that nobody was worried about screenshots of onboard changing
[22:36] <hajour1> well now i know how to make screenshots
[22:37] <UndiFineD> AlanBell, what would you like to add to the ubuntu manual ?
[22:37] <jbicha> it's because the Desktop Guide didn't have any screenshots of it in the first place
[22:37] <hajour1> just did not how before
[22:38] <jbicha> UndiFineD: what do you mean the login screen is inaccessibile? it has the Universal Access button
[22:38] <AlanBell> UndiFineD: some information on the accessibility options
[22:38] <MrChrisDruif> Then the next question would be why nobody was worried it didn't have any in the first place :)
[22:38] <UndiFineD> I will be happy to write accessibility documentation for this cycle
[22:39] <charlie-tca> The Universal Access button is worthless to the blind people
[22:39] <AlanBell> MrChrisDruif: a bug was filed against the manual
[22:39] <Cheri703> ok
[22:39] <Pendulum> jbicha: if only having a universal access button actually made things accessible ;-)
[22:39] <UndiFineD> jbicha, does that offer an on screen keyboard ? or facial recognition ? or similar tools ?
[22:39] <Pendulum> but, yeah, it's not so useful if you can't see the button to begin with
[22:40] <jbicha> it offers an onscreen keyboard
[22:40] <MrChrisDruif> AlanBell: How many more personas are needed?
[22:40] <charlie-tca> click the button, click the next thing, then try and do something to make it accessible. Can't we make it easy to use?
[22:40] <jbicha> I tried it yesterday and it works
[22:40] <AlanBell> well orca does run for gdm if you install it that way
[22:40] <charlie-tca> jbicha: try it blind
[22:40] <UndiFineD> jbicha, then still no orca is running
[22:40] <AlanBell> if you install using orca then orca will automatically start before gdm
[22:40] <charlie-tca> or even with poor vision
[22:40] <charlie-tca> It does not stand out there
[22:40] <AlanBell> but we are drifting off topic
[22:41] <UndiFineD> :)
[22:41] <Cheri703> where is the button? could it be a "the button will always be the bottom right corner, move mouse a bunch of times that way and click"
[22:41]  * MrChrisDruif was a bit late with the question
[22:41] <jbicha> excuse me if this is rude, but how many OS's can blind people install themselves?
[22:41] <charlie-tca> IT is bottom, right, over to left a bit
[22:41] <Cheri703> k
[22:41] <jbicha> it would be nice to get it working but there's a design challenge to it
[22:41] <maco> jbicha: id be completely unsurprised if OSX was on the list
[22:41] <Pendulum> let's move the install and gdm questions to later
[22:41] <charlie-tca> That depends on how easy the devs make accessibility
[22:42] <Pendulum> and the philosophical debates
[22:42] <hajour1> right jbicha  that is why i was sugestin to make a speech program by the install cd right away
[22:42] <AlanBell> MrChrisDruif: 3 to go
[22:42] <Pendulum> okay, so we've got a bunch of ideas up on http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/OneiricA11y now
[22:43] <Pendulum> maco: I'm correct that the Ubiquity a11y stuff has its own blueprint for UDS, right?
[22:43] <maco> Pendulum: yes
[22:43] <maco> desktop-o-ubiquity-a11y i think?
[22:44] <MrChrisDruif> AlanBell: Thanks
[22:44]  * webczat would like to have a shortcut key for enabling orca
[22:44] <Pendulum> we need to think about the Community a11y blueprint
[22:45] <Pendulum> which I can't be the drafter on because I won't be at UDS
[22:45] <charlie-tca> maco: desktop-o-accessibility-ubiquity
[22:45] <maco> whoops
[22:45] <MrChrisDruif> webczat: Apparently it's started before GDM if you install it with Orca enabled...
[22:45] <Pendulum> Cheri703: charlie-tca, does one of you want to own that blueprint and start it and submit it for scheduling?
[22:46] <MrChrisDruif> And you can set your own shortcuts...
[22:46] <webczat> MrChrisDruif: yes, but if you want to have an accessible login on an orca disabled system, it's useful to be able to enable it.
[22:46] <MrChrisDruif> But 1 single default shortcuts might be good webczat
[22:46] <charlie-tca> sure,
[22:46] <Cheri703> thanks charlie-tca I'm still new to this stuff
[22:46] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: I thought Luke owned it, since he drafted it
[22:46] <charlie-tca> byt I will take it
[22:46] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: this is a community team blueprint
[22:46] <Pendulum> his is devel
[22:47] <charlie-tca> Okay, I will take it
[22:47] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: awesome. I'm happy to help if you need any help setting it up/submitting it
[22:47] <charlie-tca> yup, I will get with you, probably tomorrow
[22:47] <Pendulum> #action charlie-tca to set up Community a11y blueprint for UDS-O
[22:47] <meetingology> ACTION: charlie-tca to set up Community a11y blueprint for UDS-O
[22:48] <Riddell> maco: you poked me?
[22:48] <Riddell> Pendulum: I know nothing about Unity 2D, I do KDE not Gnomey things
[22:48] <webczat> the thing is that orca is started by gdm, this is gdm's feature to be able to check some checkbox after clicking an icon and then a screenreader always gets loaded, but I can't easily get to the dialog.
[22:48] <Pendulum> Riddell: I thought Unity 2D was Qt and QML based and that was why you got poked about qt-at-spi?
[22:49] <maco> Riddell: i was poking you about our conversation earlier. she was poking about qml
[22:49] <Riddell> Pendulum: yes I believe it is
[22:50] <webczat> like ctrl+alt+tab and then (my god, where am i?) :)
[22:50] <hajour1> if i am correct is the gnome part what makes orca not  easy useble for leight weight programs right?
[22:51] <Pendulum> okay, is there anything else people would like to stick on the etherpad to see if it can be discussed at UDS in terms of getting it done?
[22:51] <charlie-tca> hajour1: right. Xfce 4.10 is going to include screen-reader suport
[22:51] <hajour1> is ;ibopenmary already in natty ?
[22:51] <hajour1> libopenmary i mean
[22:51] <webczat> I think someone in gdm should add a key for the universal access thing, and then it won't be a problem to tab few times and press space.
[22:52] <UndiFineD> JackyAlcine, ^ ?
[22:52] <charlie-tca> I don't show anything libopenmary in natty
[22:53] <AlanBell> is it in debian?
[22:53] <jbicha> webczat: I agree
[22:53] <hajour1> because that gnome part caused screen freeze by my old notebook and my youngest daughters pc
[22:54] <webczat> jbicha: yeah. you can write somewhere how many times you need to press tab and then space, but because the panel remembers the last position, you can't write how many times to tab to get to the accessibility icon.
[22:54] <Cheri703> are we still doing meeting things?
[22:54] <Pendulum> okay, so I think we've gotten through the agenda items
[22:54] <MrChrisDruif> hajour1: It might be best to get it into Debian, then it will automatically get into Ubuntu afaik
[22:54] <Pendulum> #topic Any other Business
[22:54] <meetingology> TOPIC: Any other Business
[22:54] <jbicha> I'm new to a11y so I knew logging in was possible by keyboard or mouse but you're right it doesn't look possible for a blind user
[22:54] <Pendulum> Does anyone have anything else they want to bring up for the meeting?
[22:54] <MrChrisDruif> Maybe the DEX program is suited for that...for "easily" getting it into Debian I mean
[22:55] <Pendulum> I guess not
[22:55] <Pendulum> thanks everyone for coming!
[22:55] <Pendulum> #endmeeting
[22:55] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Apr 27 21:55:56 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell . (v 0.1.4)
[22:55] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/ubuntu-accessibility/2011/ubuntu-accessibility.2011-04-27-21.05.moin.txt
[22:56] <hajour1> jbicha,  best would be a speech read program what would be installed same time with install ubuntu
[22:56] <webczat> jbicha: it's possible by keyboard, because I know, for example, when the user list begins or ends and when I'm at the login prompt, I just need to know where am i.
[22:56] <AlanBell> thanks Pendulum 
[22:56] <charlie-tca> Thanks for chairing, Pendulum 
[22:56] <Pendulum> np
[22:56] <hajour1> sorry i cant type that fast Pendulum 
[22:57] <AlanBell> hajour1: stuff doesn't get into ubuntu generally until it gets into debian
[22:57] <AlanBell> hajour1: is libopenmary in a ppa or somewhere it can be tested at least?
[22:57] <hajour1> then we need to try to get it there
[22:57] <joanie> AlanBell: Really, so the "trickle down" is gnome (or whatever) -> Debian -> Ubuntu?
[22:57] <UndiFineD> AlanBell, yes
[22:57] <AlanBell> and this is the thing that plugs openmary into speech dispatcher right?
[22:58] <AlanBell> joanie: basically yes
[22:58] <AlanBell> debian is the main upstream
[22:58] <webczat> jbicha: but it's good that you can at all select a screenreader and if accessibility on gdm is at all enabled, it will start up immediately.
[22:58] <AlanBell> however there are exceptions
[22:58] <hajour1> it not need to nessacery to  be libopenmary just if there will be a speech program
[22:58] <UndiFineD> AlanBell, : https://launchpad.net/~speechcontrol-devel
[22:58] <TheMuso> Sorry folks, totally forgot about the meeting... That kinda happens when you have a 5 day long weekend. :)
[22:58] <AlanBell> hajour1: have you used orca?
[22:59] <Pendulum> AlanBell: she can't because she can't use Gnome
[22:59] <UndiFineD> AlanBell, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7607669/SC/appdiagram.png
[22:59] <hajour1> not after my old notebook AlanBell  there it was a metal voice
[22:59] <hajour1> what was hurting my ears AlanBell 
[22:59] <Pendulum> TheMuso: no worries! I'm going to poke you later or e-mail you about something, but otherwise we just did a massive brainstorm in http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/OneiricA11y
[22:59] <AlanBell> yeah, espeak is a bit harsh
[22:59] <TheMuso> Sure.
[22:59] <hajour1> this is not my pc i have no pc at this moment AlanBell 
[23:00] <TheMuso> Espeak? Harsh? No way!
[23:00]  * joanie laughs
[23:00] <AlanBell> hajour1: however orca just pumps stuff out to speech dispatcher
[23:00] <webczat> usefulnes is more important I think :)
[23:00]  * Pendulum giggles
[23:00] <JanC> well, I know somebody who prefers the espeak voices over the "better" ones
[23:00] <TheMuso> I prefer espeak period.
[23:00] <webczat> I also like it.
[23:00] <JanC> because he can tell espeak to talk 50% faster and it's still understandable
[23:00] <AlanBell> UndiFineD: I don't understand that diagram
[23:00] <AlanBell> it is just a bunch of words on a page
[23:00]  * MrChrisDruif hasn't used any of them
[23:00] <joanie> TheMuso: The Spanish Festival voices rock though.
[23:01] <hajour1> what i mean is that i not know how orca is now AlanBell 
[23:01] <JanC> but I can understand it's different for other users...
[23:01] <MrChrisDruif> AlanBell: You put in one deaf person?
[23:01] <Pendulum> joanie: now I'm tempted to set up Festival just to see what they sound like :P
[23:01] <MrChrisDruif> For the personas?
[23:01] <TheMuso> joanie: Sure thats great if you like spanish.
[23:01] <hajour1> TheMuso,  i not now how orca sounds now
[23:01] <TheMuso> My complaint with Festival is the size of the voices.
[23:01] <webczat> the same I think hmm
[23:01] <joanie> TheMuso: :-) My point is though, it is apparently possible to make festival not suck
[23:02] <Pendulum> haha
[23:02] <TheMuso> Well thats a good thing... I guess.
[23:02] <joanie> Brailcom apparently did new Czech voices
[23:02] <TheMuso> Yeah I read.
[23:03] <webczat> Espeak is probably the easiest to use linux synthesizer.
[23:03] <joanie> having said that, I'm old enough to remember when all speech synthesizers were hardware. ;-)
[23:03] <hajour1> TheMuso,  the last time i tried orca was more then a month ago
[23:03] <webczat> around 50 languages (one better, another sucks) but still. without voice installation.
[23:03] <charlie-tca> Opportunity knocking... learn spanish or czech to use the *good* voices :-)
[23:04] <joanie> charlie-tca: Or alternatively, invest in improving the quality of the other voices
[23:04] <joanie> be they the espeak ones or the festival ones
[23:04] <charlie-tca> well, yeah, that too
[23:04] <JanC> joanie: I remember the first "software synthesizer" I saw was in the early 1990s, but it was barely understandable  ;)
[23:04] <TheMuso> joanie: I still have a couple of hardware synths actually, and would like to use them again one day, when I can find time to write a speech-dispatcher driver for them.
[23:04] <AlanBell> UndiFineD: just read the code for libopenmary, still don't see what it does, but it isn't a speech dispatcher plugin
[23:04] <hajour1> TheMuso,  do you go also to uds?
[23:04] <TheMuso> hajour1: Yes.
[23:04] <MrChrisDruif> AlanBell: why did you add a deaf person, if I may ask? I've used my Ubuntu countless of time muted no problems :-/
[23:04]  * joanie still has a dectalk express in a closet
[23:04] <JanC> it was less than 1k lines of Pascal code though
[23:04] <webczat> joanie: hardware synthesizers are sometimes better.
[23:05] <webczat> I have one and it rox
[23:05] <hajour1> i would love to talk to you to learn a lot more about all from speech programs TheMuso 
[23:05] <TheMuso> joanie: I have 2 of them, and a doubletalk. I also have a Dectalk PC card lying around somewhere too.
[23:05] <charlie-tca> MrChrisDruif: is not deaf a disability too?
[23:05] <hajour1> i learn a lot more better by hearing TheMuso 
[23:05] <webczat> for example because it's connected to the serial port instead of being an application using a soundcard, and the serial port drivers are easy to make.
[23:05] <AlanBell> MrChrisDruif: using it for communication, like minicom etc
[23:06] <charlie-tca> I use a bell to tell me when someone specifically wants to talk to me in IRC
[23:06] <charlie-tca> without it, I miss half the messages
[23:06] <MrChrisDruif> charlie-tca: Yes, being deaf is a disability too....but like I said: muted == no problems :D
[23:06] <UndiFineD> AlanBell, libopenmary is just a library in between, there is still a thing to be made to link speechdispatcher and libopenmary
[23:06] <MrChrisDruif> AlanBell: How do you mean?
[23:06] <hajour1> because i am also going to uds TheMuso 
[23:06] <TheMuso> hajour1: Awesome.
[23:06] <hajour1> if you have time offcourse TheMuso 
[23:06] <maco> MrChrisDruif: i can think of one
[23:06]  * webczat points at speakup screenreader thing
[23:07] <MrChrisDruif> maco: Please share :)
[23:07]  * TheMuso shudders... Speakup, yuck!
[23:07] <maco> MrChrisDruif: i have a friend who annoyed her coworkers for MONTHS because she had no idea that every time her visual bell was going off it was also BEEPing very loudly
[23:07] <maco> when you turn on the visual bell, nothing asks whether you want to disable the noisy one too
[23:07] <hajour1> great TheMuso  i looking forward to it
[23:07] <MrChrisDruif> maco: Alright, never knew / thought about that :)
[23:08] <JanC> MrChrisDruif: if you are deaf *and* blind things are somewhat more complicated though  ;)
[23:08] <maco> though i think a lot of what needs to be done on the deaf front is more community-facing:  convince people transcripts are good
[23:08] <TheMuso> The bell stuff is actually quite complicated.
[23:08] <JanC> MrChrisDruif: ask erkan^ ...
[23:08] <AlanBell> UndiFineD: what is the library *for*?
[23:08] <TheMuso> And I don't think many people, if any, understand it properly.
[23:08]  * Pendulum goes for food before she passes out. 
[23:08] <MrChrisDruif> JanC: Indeed...but that would be a separate persona 
[23:08] <Pendulum> catch y'all later!
[23:08] <joanie> http://2009.hfoss.org/VizAudio
[23:08] <hajour1> o i wanted to ask something
[23:08] <maco> TheMuso: and she's a fedora user, so hers probably did it differently than ubuntu's does anyway (we have hardware bell disabled in favour of soft bell, right?)
[23:08] <charlie-tca> Okay, I have to write up my natty release notes for Xubuntu now
[23:09] <UndiFineD> AlanBell, it makes it easier for c programs to link to openmary
[23:09] <AlanBell> hmm
[23:09] <MrChrisDruif> charlie-tca: good luck
[23:09] <TheMuso> maco: Yes, thats right. For GNOME, all bell audio playback is handeled by libcanberra, however compiz doesn't have proper support for this yet, something that I need to fix.
[23:09] <AlanBell> that would be a bad idea UndiFineD 
[23:09] <hajour1> is there someone here who can make a technical drawing from a aquipment?
[23:09]  * webczat likes the speakup thing because when using a hardware synthesizer, it can speak some early system bootup messages pre-initrd
[23:09] <AlanBell> they should be linking to speech dispatcher
[23:09] <MrChrisDruif> maco: Transcripts? What do you mean?
[23:10] <TheMuso> webczat: Yeah, but IMO if a distro like Ubuntu is used, thats less important, and if something fails, then you have bigger problems.
[23:10] <maco> MrChrisDruif: most people dont think about transcribing video tutorials
[23:10] <UndiFineD> AlanBell, no it is not, it makes browserspeak possible
[23:10] <maco> wait thats for blind
[23:10] <hajour1> TheMuso,  you now also what libopenmary is 
[23:10] <maco> bah brain is going backwards
[23:10] <AlanBell> and what is browserspeak?
[23:10] <maco> i meant subtitling
[23:10] <TheMuso> hajour1: I have an idea yes.
[23:11] <hajour1> maybe can youy explain it to AlanBell 
[23:11] <MrChrisDruif> maco: I don't know what transcribing is? Is that like subtitling?
[23:11] <TheMuso> hajour1: But not 100% sure. I know its something to do with speech synthesis...
[23:11] <MrChrisDruif> Ahh...subtitling :)
[23:11] <maco> MrChrisDruif: well actually, could be both....
[23:11] <JanC> MrChrisDruif: makign a script that explains everything that happens
[23:11] <maco> MrChrisDruif:  transcribing is making a script of it. subtitling is putting that script straight in
[23:11] <JanC> a "script" similar to a film or theater script 
[23:12] <MrChrisDruif> What the system is doing?
[23:12] <maco> transcribing, if more detailed than just what was said (including visual descriptions) can be useful for blindness too
[23:12] <maco> (at least, i would think so...)
[23:12] <JanC> MrChrisDruif: what the video is showing
[23:12] <maco> MrChrisDruif: this is more to do with video documentation that people in the community make though
[23:12] <maco> but also, improving subtitling software would be nice
[23:12] <maco> because having tried it:  ugh
[23:12] <UndiFineD> so, se selct a bunch of text in the browser, browserspeak passes it to libopenmary, which passes it to openmary, it gets processed and a few seconds later, the text is spoken
[23:13] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, but what about transcribing the system?
[23:13] <hajour1> TheMuso,  see line above from UndiFineD 
[23:13] <maco> if you're deaf-blind, your screenreader should be pushing out to a braille tty
[23:13] <maco> since just plain spoken screenreading won't work
[23:13] <TheMuso> Right, so openmary is a speech synth.
[23:13] <TheMuso> So apps that want to use it should go through speech dispatcher.
[23:13] <webczat> orca can do it
[23:13] <AlanBell> UndiFineD: so like orca does anyway, but via speech dispatcher
[23:13] <hajour1> yes TheMuso 
[23:13] <TheMuso> And openmary needs a speech dispatcher sdriver
[23:14] <AlanBell> TheMuso: it does
[23:14] <UndiFineD> correct TheMuso 
[23:14] <AlanBell> so libopenmary isn't a speech dispatcher driver for openmary
[23:14] <webczat> the bes packet. speech dispatcher + a hardware synth + speakup + orca + brltty :o
[23:14] <JanC> it might be needed for a speed dispatcher driver?
[23:14] <maco> i should be seeing a deaf friend from Red Hat in a couple weeks, possibly also meeting up with some comp sci teachers from the local deaf uni as well, so "what would be useful" is something i'll be sure to ask
[23:14] <UndiFineD> no, it is a step in between
[23:14] <hajour1> sometimes its very nice to have someone who can translate it :) TheMuso 
[23:15] <JanC> isn't OpenMary in Java or soemthing like that?
[23:15] <maco> MrChrisDruif: oh, something else i remember another deaf friend saying about electronics in general:  vibration haptics need to be stronger in some devices
[23:15] <UndiFineD> JanC, yes
[23:15] <AlanBell> JanC: it is in java but there is a web REST API to it
[23:16] <AlanBell> feed in text, get back sounds
[23:16] <hajour1> nice maco  i appriciate your suggestions with vibrasound
[23:16] <JanC> ow, that should make it easy to use
[23:16]  * joanie waves and wanders off
[23:16] <MrChrisDruif> maco: I wasn't planning on some sissy vibrations :D
[23:17] <TheMuso> So given speech-dispatcher's speech driver model, it certainly wouldn't be hard to write an openmary driver then.
[23:17] <MrChrisDruif> hajour1: Name needs to be rethought probably...
[23:17] <hajour1> yes ofcours MrChrisDruif  but needed to name it for now
[23:18] <AlanBell> TheMuso: not at all
[23:18] <hajour1> i am searching for a person who canb make a cat drawing
[23:18] <AlanBell> in fact could probably be done with config files and the standard openmary toolset
[23:18] <hajour1> cad i mean
[23:18] <hajour1> bah language mistakes
[23:18] <MrChrisDruif> hajour1: If you're going to announce vibrasound @ UDS, then make sure that it's only a development name! :)
[23:19] <hajour1> i think we need to be further before we go talk about that at uds MrChrisDruif 
[23:19] <MrChrisDruif> Just making sure O:-)
[23:19] <hajour1> it need to have more shape for launching
[23:20] <JanC> you can always mention it & as an experimental project  ;)
[23:20] <hajour1> i now MrChrisDruif :)
[23:20] <hajour1> it would help when we have a technical drawing from it but it is short time before uds
[23:20] <TheMuso> AlanBell: Possibly, but a native driver would allow for callbacks etc.
[23:21] <hajour1> but i not yet have found a person who can make that
[23:22] <AlanBell> TheMuso: understood, just wondering if I can hack something together with the generic driver to see how it sounds when saying the right stuff
[23:22] <TheMuso> AlanBell: Yeah you very likely could.
[23:22] <hajour1> great if you would try it out AlanBell 
[23:23] <hajour1> and give feedback ofcourse AlanBell 
[23:23] <UndiFineD> the online demo is not working at the moment, browserspeak works great, and I am looking into xchat plugins to make it work there as well
[23:24] <hajour1> :(
[23:24] <jbicha> error message in Banshee: "Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation."
[23:24] <maco> useful
[23:24] <hajour1> jbicha,  what means invocation?
[23:24] <maco> hajour1: like "call"
[23:25] <hajour1> mm ok
[23:25] <TheMuso> Yay mono.
[23:26] <hajour1> not very clear then not to me anyway
[23:26] <UndiFineD> pretty much a useless exception
[23:27] <AlanBell> yeah, this will work
[23:27] <hajour1> can we mail them to explain more?
[23:27] <hajour1> just a sugestion
[23:28] <jbicha> keyboard shortcut bugs are accessibility right?
[23:28] <hajour1> do you mean libopenmary AlanBell  or something else?
[23:29] <jbicha> is there a tag for that?
[23:29] <AlanBell> cool, well it looks like orca+openMary will work without too much trouble, but it is late here and the release tomorrow, might get it done over the weekend
[23:29] <hajour1> great AlanBell 
[23:29] <UndiFineD> hah AlanBell :)
[23:29] <AlanBell> hajour1: there is no need for libopenmary which is great as it means no new packages
[23:30] <AlanBell> just get openmary itself into debian and a config file in /etc/speech-dispatcher
[23:31] <UndiFineD> that would be great
[23:31] <JanC> hm, doesn't speech dispatcher use some complicated XML format?  or was that its predecessor?
[23:31] <TheMuso> No.
[23:31] <TheMuso> Speech-dispatcher uses simple text config files.
[23:31] <TheMuso> Although that may change in the future.
[23:32] <TheMuso> Speech-dispatcher currently uses a library for config files that is not really maintained much upstream.
[23:32] <JanC> I mean to send text to the speech synth?
[23:32] <hajour1> that would be great AlanBell  if that is possible
[23:32] <TheMuso> Oh right.
[23:32] <TheMuso> Speech-dispatcher has its own API, but uses SSML to speak to synths that support it.
[23:33] <AlanBell> JanC: http://dhvani.sourceforge.net/tools/dhvani-generic.conf example generic config file
[23:33] <hajour1> AlanBell,  if that succeed is orca then also useful for leightweight pc s ?
[23:33] <JanC> I think I looked into it something like 3-4 years ago, so things might have changed  ;)
[23:33] <AlanBell> this is where the magic happens ->   GenericExecuteSynth "echo \"$DATA\" > /tmp/sddhvani | /usr/bin/dhvani /tmp/sddhvani"
[23:34] <JanC> nice, I have some 3-4 year old project to finish then  ;)
[23:34] <AlanBell> make a command line which turns $DATA into sound using your favourite speech synth
[23:34] <JanC> or maybe older
[23:35] <charlie-tca> jbicha: a11y
[23:36]  * MrChrisDruif goes to bed...Aloha!
[23:36] <hajour1> goodnight MrChrisDruif \
[23:37] <hajour1> if anyone hears from a person who have the skill to make a technical drawing .....
[23:38]  * hajour1 wishes she had get more education in past and coald make it herself
[23:40] <hajour1> and maco   your sugestions helps very to make the vibrasound equipment really useble
[23:41] <hajour1> already hoped you would give comment maco 
[23:41] <TheMuso> 7/c
[23:42] <hajour1> what do 7/c TheMuso ?
[23:42] <hajour1> what do it means i meant
[23:42] <hajour1> sorry i not know all that signs yet
[23:42] <JanC> he probably mistyped an IRC command to change to another channel or so  ☺
[23:42] <TheMuso> It was a typo.
[23:43] <hajour1> a ok sorry misunderstood then TheMuso 
[23:50] <AlanBell> so if you install openMary and go to this url (with a browser or wget or curl or something) http://localhost:59125/process?INPUT_TEXT=Hello+to+the+Ubuntu+Accessibility+team&INPUT_TYPE=TEXT&OUTPUT_TYPE=AUDIO&AUDIO=WAVE_FILE&LOCALE=en_US
[23:50] <AlanBell> you get a wav file that sounds like this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/mary.wav
[23:51] <AlanBell> so the config file needs to do a curl to that kind of URL, pop the wav file in /tmp and play it
[23:51] <AlanBell> really going to bed this time
[23:51] <JanC> you need to learn it how to pronounce Ubuntu though   ;)
[23:51] <AlanBell> can be done
[23:51] <JanC> well, not "you" 
[23:52] <AlanBell> there are rules based pronounciation corrections
[23:52] <AlanBell> it gets gnome right
[23:53] <webczat> don't remind me how espeak speaks "w ubuntu" in polish. :d nevermind
[23:54] <hajour1> ok thanks again for helping AlanBell 
[23:54] <hajour1> and goodnight AlanBell 
[23:55] <hajour1> lol webczat 
[23:55] <webczat> it looks like "wooboodoo"
[23:56] <hajour1> XD