[00:03] <Captainkrtek> hello jjesse
[00:04] <Captainkrtek> so jbicha just fix those few things (upgrading distro now) and resubmit for review?
[00:05] <jbicha> Captainkrtek: I would take out the Ubuntu references as this page is something upstream could use
[00:05] <jbicha> well except for the fact that upstream is using gnome-control-center 3 which is different
[00:05] <Captainkrtek> okay
[00:06] <Captainkrtek> cool, thanks :-)
[00:06] <jbicha> I don't think you need to use quotation marks
[00:07] <jbicha> one thing I like to try to do is walk through the process from a default install
[00:07] <Captainkrtek> okay
[00:07] <jbicha> how does Ubuntu generally act when you plug in a 2nd monitor, does it auto-enable it?
[00:08] <jbicha> I don't have the right cable to try out 2 monitors on my computer so I'm not sure
[00:08] <Captainkrtek> well I have two displays :)
[00:08] <Captainkrtek> so I can test that
[00:08] <Captainkrtek> it doesnt auto enable if i remember correctly
[00:09] <Captainkrtek> it may turn it on but with mirroring
[00:11] <jbicha> Captainkrtek: trivia question, how many indicators are possible in the default 11.04 install?
[00:11] <Captainkrtek> no idea
[00:11] <Captainkrtek> haha
[00:11] <jbicha> more than you'd think
[00:11] <Captainkrtek> how many?
[00:13] <jbicha> I'm up to 14 in my count
[00:13] <Captainkrtek> oh wow
[00:13] <jbicha> the basic 8: o jbicha just fix those few things (upgrading distro now) and resubmit for review?
[00:13] <jbicha> oops
[00:13] <jbicha> bluetooth, battery, network, sound, messaging, clock, me, session
[00:13] <Captainkrtek> quoting me? haha
[00:14] <jbicha> I have my irssi alert set to yellow on gray so it's hard for me to read direct mentions
[00:14] <Captainkrtek> ahh
[00:14] <jbicha> I really need to change it to something else
[00:14] <Captainkrtek> I use xchat more
[00:15] <jbicha> and then there's Tomboy & Transmission
[00:15] <jbicha> a Drop Privileges indicator
[00:15] <Captainkrtek> I really only use chrome, eclipse, xchat, filezilla, skype, and beyondcompare
[00:15] <Captainkrtek> I don't have many apps. installed
[00:16] <jbicha> also possible to enable accessibility, display, and keyboard layout indicators
[00:18] <jbicha> there should be a print job indicator but that's not been ported yet
[00:18] <Captainkrtek> that'd be nice
[06:58] <Captainkrtek> hello
[06:59] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, just upgraded to natty
[07:07] <jbicha> Captainkrtek: what do you think of it?
[07:08] <Captainkrtek> pretty cool
[07:08] <Captainkrtek> reminds me a lot of OS X though
[07:08] <Captainkrtek> and the Control Center
[07:08] <Captainkrtek> looks like the OS X control panel
[07:09] <Captainkrtek> finishing the 2 displays article though
[07:11] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, can I have you look at the doc? ill submit it to the mailing list
[07:25] <Captainkrtek> submitted to the mailing list
[07:26] <jbicha> oh, the gnome 3 control center is a lot better but it won't be included until 11.10
[07:26] <Captainkrtek> gotcha
[07:26] <Captainkrtek> in my doc
[07:27] <jbicha> that control center has been in Ubuntu for quite a while but it was hidden
[07:27] <Captainkrtek> I said, search for Monitors in the applications menu
[07:27] <Captainkrtek> if that alright? still getting used to unity heh
[07:27] <Captainkrtek> is*
[07:28] <jbicha> I prefer to direct people to the System Settings button since that works in Gnome 3 too
[07:28] <Captainkrtek> I couldn't find it
[07:28] <jbicha> click the button in the far top right of the screen
[07:28] <Captainkrtek> ohhhh
[07:28]  * Captainkrtek is a noob
[07:32] <jbicha> ok, make a backup of your 2mon page, and then please uncommit your 2 changes
[07:32] <Captainkrtek> okay
[07:32] <jbicha> because it's more of a pain for me to have to apply a diff to the previous diff
[07:32] <Captainkrtek> sorry
[07:32] <jbicha> so email a single diff
[07:32] <jbicha> it's not a problem, it's a lot to learn
[07:33] <Captainkrtek> how do you uncommit in bzr?
[07:33] <jbicha> bzr uncommit :-)
[07:34] <Captainkrtek> hehe
[07:34] <jbicha> but if you don't do bzr revert the changes are still there, just not committed
[07:34] <Captainkrtek> just once
[07:34] <jbicha> bzr revert
[07:34] <Captainkrtek> or twice for the two commits?
[07:34] <jbicha> twice
[07:34] <Captainkrtek> k
[07:35] <Captainkrtek> I just ls'd in /C and I see display-2monitors.page and .page~
[07:35] <jbicha> you have gedit set to autosave
[07:35] <Captainkrtek> gotcha
[07:35] <jbicha> ~ is a backup
[07:35] <Captainkrtek> so just remove it
[07:35] <Captainkrtek> or leave it?
[07:36] <jbicha> hidden files are ignored by bzr so it's up to you
[07:36] <Captainkrtek> k
[07:36] <jbicha> did you figure out what Ubuntu does by default when the 2nd monitor is plugged in?
[07:36] <Captainkrtek> let me test that
[07:36] <Captainkrtek> well actually
[07:36] <Captainkrtek> I remember
[07:37] <Captainkrtek> it just has the monitor on sort of
[07:37] <Captainkrtek> the monitor will have a signal, but nothing displayed
[07:37] <Captainkrtek> then you toggle it on with the On Off radio button
[07:37] <Captainkrtek> then adjust resolution, Hz, rotation, etc.
[07:37] <Captainkrtek> apply and close
[07:38] <jbicha> most shouldn't need to adjust refresh or rotation
[07:38] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[07:38] <Captainkrtek> I just added that in case
[07:39] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, this look okay? http://pastebin.com/SU8C6VKG
[07:39] <Captainkrtek> that's the diffname.txt
[07:40] <jbicha> no, that didn't work either, it should be a diff from the original stub
[07:40] <Captainkrtek> hmm
[07:41] <Captainkrtek> okay
[07:41] <Captainkrtek> should be good now
[07:41] <Captainkrtek> weird, it is not a stub :/
[07:43] <Captainkrtek> there we go
[07:44] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, http://pastebin.com/kx8YMq76 ?
[07:45] <jbicha> ooh, I didn't know bzr had a shelve option, that could be convenient
[07:46] <Captainkrtek> so can I email that one
[07:48] <jbicha> wait
[07:48] <Captainkrtek> k
[07:56] <jbicha> make your title more direct: Enable a second monitor
[07:56] <Captainkrtek> k
[07:56] <Captainkrtek> sooo just edit the diffchange?
[07:57] <jbicha> no, just uncommit :-)
[07:57] <jbicha> add extra returns so that your lines aren't longer than about 90-100 characters
[07:57] <Captainkrtek> k
[07:58] <Captainkrtek> this is an art ;-)
[07:58] <jbicha> yes, we're picky
[07:59] <Captainkrtek> hehe I understand
[07:59] <jbicha> copy and paste from another doc the system settings blurb so that the style is similar
[07:59] <Captainkrtek> k
[08:00] <jbicha> you don't need to say radio button, just tell users to click <gui>On</gui>
[08:00] <Captainkrtek> k
[08:01] <jbicha> and I don't think you need quotation marks
[08:01] <Captainkrtek> k
[08:02] <jbicha> there's a writing style we've been using but I honestly am not sure how to describe it
[08:02] <Captainkrtek> hehe
[08:02] <Captainkrtek> I understand
[08:02] <jbicha> copying what the other pages do is about the best advice I have
[08:02] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[08:06] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, okay I think we are go for launch
[08:11] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, http://pastebin.com/MXuWqTKZ
[08:18] <Captainkrtek> bueno?
[08:20] <jbicha> well it needs more work but if you are stuck figuring out how to improve it you can submit it
[08:21] <Captainkrtek> I know it's not perfect :/ new to all this
[08:21] <Captainkrtek> what do you think
[08:22] <Captainkrtek> submit or work on it more tomorrow
[08:22] <jbicha> if you can improve it, do so, otherwise you can email it
[08:23] <Captainkrtek> Ill work on it a bit longer
[08:23] <Captainkrtek> then submit it later tonight
[08:23] <Captainkrtek> any tips off the bat? I don't want to keep you awake
[08:24] <jbicha> get rids of the tabs, just spaces are fine
[08:38] <Captainkrtek> it looks good now :)
[08:39] <Captainkrtek> going to email it off to you wizards
[08:42] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, emailed, thanks for the help, I think you'll be pleased with my last email
[08:45] <Captainkrtek> goodnight :)
[09:50] <peppe84> Hi. I see backup page marked as "Outdated".
[09:50] <peppe84> What is our approach now, we'll reccomented again sbackup or migrate to backintime or deja-dup?
[18:30] <shaunm> j1mc: are you running unity right now?
[18:32] <shaunm> or, you know, anybody running unity, can you run this is a terminal and paste the result:
[18:32] <shaunm> echo $DESKTOP_SESSION
[18:33] <shaunm> j1mc: and if you happen to have xfce running, I wouldn't mind seeing the result there as well
[18:34] <peppe84> shaunm: peppe84@contumacia:~$ echo $DESKTOP_SESSION
[18:34] <peppe84> gnome
[18:34] <shaunm> bugger
[18:35] <shaunm> I'm trying to find a reliable way for yelp to know what environment it's running in
[19:25] <jbicha> shaunm: this might be another dead end, but it's possible to sniff for the appmenu, but that can be used outside of Unity
[19:25] <jbicha> though not by default
[19:26] <jbicha> so I'm thinking it would be an ugly hack
[19:27] <jbicha> maybe this would help too: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2011-February/011812.html
[19:34] <j1mc> shaunm: yeah, it just says 'gnome' when running unity
[19:35] <shaunm> yeah, probably going to have to check known service names on dbus
[19:37] <mdke> shaunm: I think that if there isn't a simple way, one should be created. I can't image just yelp would find it useful
[19:48] <j1mc> i've sent an email to ubuntu-devel-discuss to get input from other developer folks.
[19:57] <shaunm> mdke: its' been discussed before for years in places like xdg-list
[19:57] <shaunm> there's always resistance
[20:14] <mdke> shaunm: bizarre
[20:16] <mdke> shaunm: did you say that to build html using your xslt I can just use a yelp-build script rather than installing the software? I am having problems compiling yelp-xsl
[20:37] <shaunm> mdke: well, yelp-build is created from yelp-build.in when yelp-tools is built. so there's no yelp-build you can just take straight from git
[20:37] <shaunm> but all that's done to create yelp-build is some substitutions for paths to various things from yelp-xsl
[20:38] <shaunm> lines 19-25. you could just change the @ patterns to actual file paths by hand and call it a day
[20:39] <shaunm> or I could just send you mine. if you have yelp-xsl installed in /usr (which you almost certainly do), it will work
[20:46] <mdke> shaunm: I have yelp-xsl 3.0.0
[20:47] <mdke> (installed in /usr)
[20:47] <mdke> shaunm: it sounds like if you send me yours that would be really useful
[20:48] <mdke> there is probably a way to work around these build problems but if I can just use the yelp-build file without other changes, that is probably the easiest
[21:07] <mdke> shaunm: thanks :)
[21:09] <mdke> shaunm: it doesn't seem to like images with paths starting with / - http://paste.ubuntu.com/599964/
[21:09] <mdke> is that a bug?
[21:10] <mdke> shaunm: aside from that, it works an absolute treat
[21:10] <mdke> thanks :)
[21:12] <shaunm> mdke: oh, yeah, it just concatenates the path of the referencing page with the URL path
[21:13] <shaunm> I guess for absolute paths, I probably shouldn't even copy the media
[21:13] <shaunm> but, you know, those paths aren't going to work very well when you push the html to the web
[21:14] <mdke> shaunm: yeah, what we've done in the past is to change the URLs by running sed over the built html
[21:14] <mdke> ditto with ghelp links
[21:15] <shaunm> ah, fair enough
[21:16] <shaunm> well, if I'm reading the code right, those errors shouldn't stop the build or hurt anything else
[21:16] <mdke> nope, all looks to be in order
[21:16] <shaunm> hmm, actually, you might have some crazy directories created
[21:17] <mdke> ah, it's created a usr/ directory
[21:17] <shaunm> yeah
[21:18] <mdke> doesn't seem to be any harm done though
[21:19] <shaunm> yeah, you should be able to safely rm -rf that
[21:19] <mdke> shaunm: another question. Can I use the same xsl customisations that we used to build docbook (like to build the html page header and such) with this?
[21:19] <shaunm> maybe. I don't know how old those are, and what templates they overrode
[21:20] <shaunm> but generally, the mallard and docbook output from yelp-xsl share a lot of the same code. you should be able to have a single customization that handles them both
[21:20] <mdke> let's try :)
[21:21] <mdke> this is the sort of thing - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/natty/view/head:/libs/ubuntu-banner.xsl
[21:23] <shaunm> is that customization for docbook-xsl?
[21:23] <shaunm> I think it is
[21:23] <mdke> yes
[21:23] <shaunm> so the same template names aren't going to work
[21:23] <shaunm> but it should be adaptable
[21:24] <shaunm> (it would probably be worthwhile for yelp-xsl to have a few more stub templates for customizations, like putting stuff in the header and footer divs)
[21:25] <shaunm> what I'd probably do with yelp-xsl 3.0.0 is just override html.page. copy what's there, keep stuff intact, and add what you need
[21:25] <shaunm> if you use yelp-xsl's docbook stylesheets as well, the exact same customizations will work for both docbook and mallard
[21:25] <shaunm> because they both go through the html.page template
[21:26] <shaunm> most of the css is consolidated as well, using common classes
[21:26] <mdke> ok, will look into that now
[21:27] <mdke> ok, that looks workable
[21:31] <shaunm> ideally, you shouldn't have to override that template, but I don't think yelp-xsl has the stub templates you need for your customizations
[21:32] <shaunm> and really, short of adding calls to stubs so that those kinds of overrides aren't necessary in the future, I don't plan on changing that template any. so overriding should be future-safe
[21:54] <mdke> shaunm: getting there, using that template seems to be a fine solution. I really need to learn css properly :)
[21:54] <mdke> learning enough to fix problems and fill holes by trial and error is really slow
[21:55] <jbicha> yeah I don't know css either
[22:36] <mdke> ok, I've taken that as far as I can this evening, will continue anon
[22:37] <mdke> code is in revision 1520 if anyone wants to look/help/test
[22:37] <mdke> --> bed