[00:07] skaet, should bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/wubi/+bug/771517 be assigned to ev or so, to ensure it is looked at soon? [00:07] Launchpad bug 771517 in wubi "Natty Wubi install via ubiquity fails saying no such file or directory found (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Confirmed] [00:07] I have no Windows, so I can't repro it or anything [00:08] rickspencer3, its note and will get top priority in the morning. ev's in the release room with us. [00:08] hi ev! [00:08] :) [00:08] thanks skaet [00:25] aye skaet will do that now [00:25] Riddell, ScottL, stgraber, highvoltage, superm1, can you please review your products on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/ReleaseNotes? [00:26] thanks ScottL :) [00:27] ReleaseNotes are still very much work in progress, and polishing will be going on tomorrow as well, so feel free to make sure the key points you want to highlight are covered in the Release Notes. [00:27] If not, please add them. [00:36] * skaet calling it a night.. [00:36] Night skaet. [00:38] goodnight skaet [00:42] jibel_: Did you get the link you needed? [00:46] pitti: I'd appreciate it if you would waive the aging period for Bug #771281 as it's a trivial fix, it's already been verified, and since (particularly) it was used to build the final Kubuntu DVD, it'd be nice to get it into -updates for the release. [00:46] Launchpad bug 771281 in kubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "kubuntu-full not installable in Natty (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771281 [01:36] skaet, release notes are good === nhandler is now known as Guest956 === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler [04:12] skaet: I'll update the Edubuntu ReleaseNotes tomorrow morning EDT so in ~10 hours [06:03] hi, are package removals from unseeded still ok? [07:33] Good morning [07:33] ScottK: right, in fact I already proposed that last night, as I assumed we want that in -updates for building the Kubuntu DVD [07:35] ScottK: (done) [08:23] pitti, hi a user is reporting problems again with access to /dev/fd0 during installation making the whole process really slow. bug 769704 [08:23] Launchpad bug 769704 in casper (Ubuntu Oneiric) (and 3 other projects) "Install doesn't proceed because of I/O error for floppy disk drive (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769704 [08:26] ugh, these never die completely [08:26] * pitti looks [08:27] jibel: hang on, studio? doesn't that use d-i, not the live system? [08:27] so this isn't a casper bug, something new in d-i does that [08:28] pitti, oh right, my mistake. [08:32] I made some additional comments/questions [08:38] thanks [09:06] pitti: kubuntu-meta> yes, I think so [09:08] ScottK: not sure we've actually redone the Kubuntu DVD yet, mind [09:08] jibel: FWIW "really slow" is not something we will fix at this point - if it works, it'll do [09:11] cjwatson, a user was reporting something like 40mn to boot. The workaround is easy, so adding it to the release notes is good enough. [09:11] casper took some 40 minutes to complete [09:11] and disabling in BIOS works, too [09:11] jibel: this bug is not about boot [09:13] I don't think it's a recent change FWIW [09:20] pitti: watch out for my note on bug 687501, BTW [09:20] Launchpad bug 687501 in grub2 (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 3 other projects) "when installer is multipath aware, grub fails to install (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 38)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687501 [09:20] (comment 25) [09:26] cjwatson: ah, thanks; do you mind if I mark this as verification-failed in addition, to avoid accidentally copying it? [09:28] pitti: not at all, as long as the reason for it is clear so that we know we can revert it later [09:28] sure [09:51] right, signed wubi r210 is in the right place, but we're going to check that Windows is happy with the signed binary in a little bit [09:53] ev, I'm trying to reproduce bug 771517 and bug 770256, what are the conditions to have ubiquity propose 'install ubuntu inside windows'. There are 4 primary partitions, do they all need to be of type ntfs ? [09:53] Launchpad bug 771517 in wubi "Natty Wubi install via ubiquity fails saying no such file or directory found (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771517 [09:53] Launchpad bug 770256 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Reboots after Wubi install via ubiquity repeatedly ask to uninstall (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770256 [09:53] jibel: only one needs to be ntfs [09:54] and Windows needs to be found by os-prober, and /cdrom/wubi.exe needs to exist [09:55] oh, and we need to be able to find the Windows startup folder [09:55] my setup is sda1 'dell utility' sda2 to 4 primary ntfs on windows7 /cdrom/wubi.exe exists [09:56] we try 'ProgramData/Microsoft/Windows/Start Menu/Programs/Startup', 'Documents and Settings/All Users/Start Menu/Programs/Startup', 'Winnt/Profiles/All Users/Start Menu/Programs/Startup' [09:56] how do I verify if windows is found by os-prober ? [09:56] jibel: `sudo os-prober` [09:57] rebuilding desktops for that Wubi fix [09:57] it returns '/dev/sda2:Windows 7 (loader):Windows:chain' is it ok ? [09:57] yes [09:58] (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu) [09:58] only change will be wubi.exe, you can carry over other previous tests IMO [09:59] jibel: ^- IIRC you can do that with db hackery? [10:01] cjwatson, yes [10:01] once we've built I can confirm that other things are identical [10:07] all the directories are there excepted 'Winnt/Profiles/All Users/Start Menu/Programs/Startup', does the windows partition needs to be mounted somewhere ? [10:09] it only needs one of those directories [10:09] it doesn't need to be mounted [10:30] Ubuntu desktop posted - I've confirmed that the only diffs are dists/natty/Release.gpg (just regenerated, Release stayed the same), .disk/info (timestamp), and wubi.exe [10:33] I definitely don't have this option and the only item in the partitioner are 'replace window7' and 'something else' :/ [10:33] Kubuntu desktop posted - likewise confirmed [10:34] are you sure you have four *primary* partitions? [10:38] that's what diskpart and parted tell me. [10:48] pitti: I've uploaded grub2 Wubi fixes to lucid-proposed and maverick-proposed, if you'd be so good [10:49] cjwatson: is it urgent as in "now", or is 2 h okay? (having an 1-on-1 now, and then need to run for some errands) [10:49] 2h is fine [10:49] but I'll try to do it ASAP [11:18] cjwatson: done [11:18] excellent, thanks [11:18] * pitti -> off for some 1.5 h [11:22] Xubuntu desktop posted (Wubi again) [11:26] Riddell, ScottK - is rbelem around? Kubuntu mobile testing sitting as a gap right now. [11:27] skaet: he's brazil, he'll wake up shortly [11:32] Riddell, thanks. [11:37] are new DVDs due today following the new desktop images? [11:37] yes [11:37] I should get round to those shouldn't I [11:38] so, let's see [11:38] Ubuntu DVDs don't need a livefs respin [11:38] but Kubuntu DVDs do, due to the kubuntu-full uninstallability [11:38] correct? [11:38] and Edubuntu can be left alone [11:39] kubuntu-full has already been moved to -updates, so won't require any special CD-build-time work [11:40] jibel, ^^ most test results should hold. [11:41] (though actually that's only because it's in the livefs, but anyway) [11:42] sounds right [11:43] echo ubuntu dvd; for-project ubuntu cron.dvd; echo kubuntu dvd; buildlive kubuntu-dvd dvd && for-project kubuntu cron.dvd [11:43] running [11:45] cjwatson, ev, I've found the problem with 'wubi option not showing' that's because os-prober returns the wrong partition. Well, not really wrong but not the right one. [11:46] it returns sda2 which is a recovery partition but the OS is installed on sda3 [11:47] note that it is the default partition scheme from the manufacturer [11:52] there are a few bugs about that, it turns out to be quite hard to distinguish them reliably in all cases [11:52] it works for some people but not others IME === yofel_ is now known as yofel [11:56] if I force the device to be /dev/sda3 in os_prober() then the menu to install Wubi is there and I can proceed with the Wubi setup. I'll file a bug. [11:56] there's already at least one such bug on os-prober [11:57] ok, I'll search for duplicate first :-) [11:57] * ScottK wonders about is wubi really worth the trouble. [11:57] hm, maybe not [11:58] jibel: sure, go ahead and file a new one [12:03] ScottK: it's an non-destructive option in the face of none when four partitions are present. That strikes me as worth the trouble. [12:04] ev: I was thinking more globally. It seems like every cycle it sucks up a lot of time from critical people. I don't know how much having the option helps people with transition, so I don't have a strong opinion on it's value relative to it's cost, but the cost is not insignificant. [12:07] I don't have real figures, but I would wager quite a bit. [12:08] At some point I hope we'll do some user testing and I can give you a much better response. [12:08] it's certainly not staffed appropriately [12:26] Ubuntu DVD posted; the changes are partman-auto bug 770041 and the Wubi bugs [12:26] Launchpad bug 770041 in partman-auto (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "partitioner hangs if libparted sees partitions for which device nodes don't exist (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770041 [13:14] skaet, I keep all the results from the previous build for {Ku|Xu|U}buntu Desktop excepted Wubi which has changed, that's it ? [13:17] yes, I posted the exact list of changes above === jjohansen is now known as jj-afk [13:17] thanks, doing the update. [13:20] jibel, can you copy the results onto the iso tracker for those past ones? or do you keep them on the side? [13:23] skaet, I update the past results with the id of the new build in order to show them on the tracker, excepted wubi, that I'll keep back because it needs to be tested again. [13:24] jibel, sounds perfect. thanks! === doko_ is now known as doko [13:56] ev, I think I never see migration-assistant for the same reason than wubi menu not showing in Ubiquity ? [13:56] jibel: they both rely on os-prober, yes [13:57] good morning [13:58] hm, that's a problem then, because I have this issue on 3 different system from different manufacturers. [13:58] with an untouched factory partitioning scheme. [14:00] it will have to be release-noted - I'm not confident making a quick change for that, not in the slightest [14:04] skaet, update done. [14:05] thanks jibel [14:28] Riddell, any news from Tm_T, there's no results for kubuntu on powerpc [14:31] skaet: working on the Edubuntu release notes now [14:31] stgraber, ok respect the locking, andy and colin are working on them too right now. [14:31] thanks. [14:33] jibel: he tests in European evenings so he won't have had a chance with today's image yet [14:34] Riddell, ok. [14:38] oh yeah, I should post the Kubuntu DVD shouldn't I! [14:39] changes are fixed partman-auto, new tzdata, installable kubuntu-full, new Wubi (if that matters) [14:40] err [14:40] damn, kubuntu-full is still uninstallable, I need to respin that with a couple of cdimage changes [14:50] good morning all [14:50] pitti, seb128 what's the word on the street? [14:50] oops, wrong channel! [14:59] lol [15:09] ok, kubuntu-full properly fixed on Kubuntu DVDs now; posted [15:14] skaet, highvoltage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/ReleaseNote is now up to date for Edubuntu. [15:16] stgraber: looks great [15:19] highvoltage, stgraber - Thanks! :) [15:20] only a pleasure! [15:29] is there time to upload a small change that adds an Enhances: line to a package in universe? === robbiew1 is now known as robbiew === bjf[afk] is now known as bjf [15:37] hyperair: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2011-April/000844.html - final freeze is past [15:37] so I think not, -> oneiric [15:38] alright [15:48] hyperair: an SRU for this would do fine, as per definition it is only for the case where the package is not yet installed (i. e. you need to download it anyway) [15:48] skaet: I will test the kubuntu-mobile armel images in a little bit. Just getting my first cup of coffee now. [15:48] alright. [15:49] hyperair: I updated the bug accordingly [15:49] pitti: oh okay, thanks [15:53] pitti: do i still need an ubuntu-sru ack, or is your post considered an ack? [15:54] oh wait, i forgot, these days we upload directly to -updates and let it wait, right? [15:58] no, -proposed [15:58] but otherwise yes [15:58] hyperair: right [15:58] cjwatson: right, thanks for correcting me before a potential screwup. =p [15:58] * hyperair hasn't done a sru in a while [16:18] thanks GrueMaster. [16:42] Why do the mobile armel images keep changing? While I haven't tested since Beta 2, dailies have been complete preinstalled images until 20110425, when they reverted back to rootfs only. [16:44] See http://paste.ubuntu.com/599850/ to know what I am referring to. [16:45] The images with the x86 boot sector are ready to run. [16:52] GRRR !!! [16:53] cjwatson: Hello. When a user starts an install and selects Simplified Chinese as their language, will that language pack get fully installed so the user can run Natty with full simplified Chinese support at login? Or do they still have to install the Simplified Chinese lang pack through Language Support? [16:53] who didnt respect the wiki lock when i edited ( i didnt get any warning at all and now there is a mess) [16:55] skaet, i added the proper arm sections to the release notes and known issues ... someone edited though while i held the lock, i dont know where the conflicting bits should go now [16:55] patrickmw: the simplified chinese langpack is on the images, but not the spell checkers, etc.; these will get installed from the network if you are online, or you will get a notification for them post-install if you are offline [16:56] pitti, should that notification be instant, or can it take a while? [16:56] * ogra_ tries to fix, hoping he wont mess up other peoples stuff now [16:56] patrickmw: some minutes perhaps [16:56] ogra_, make your best guess, and I'll do the best to resolve after everyone's out. [16:56] skaet, "after everyone is out" ? [16:56] who is in ?? :) [16:56] i dont get a warning at all, the wiki tells me that others will though [16:56] ogra, people are adding bugs from each of the teams. Seems to be changing by the minute. [16:57] Not sure why not respecting lock. [16:57] right, but it seems the locking mechanism doesnt cope [16:57] * skaet nods [16:57] Wouldn't it be easier for everyone to edit in their own sandbox and feed one person the links to pull in? [16:59] GrueMaster, that's a good suggestion. Can you send a note about it to ubuntu-release mail list so we can discuss mechanisms for it at UDS as one of the areas on feedback for improving the release management. ? [16:59] I'm not on the mailing list. [16:59] well, having a working wiki used to work in the past [17:00] GrueMaster, you can mail to it, and I'll approve it in, or subscribe - as you wish. Its an open list. [17:00] without lock it doesnt indeed and getting a 500 error for every edit doesnt help either [17:01] so seems i have solved all conflicts now [17:01] hmm, we should all just use ubuntu studio !!! [17:02] Ubuntu Studio [17:02] No issues to report. [17:02] :) [17:04] patrickmw: I think it should get fully installed [17:05] cjwatson, ok. thank you [17:05] wiki> it's not that big an issue, worst case we can resolve conflicts later. I think adding sandboxes that we would have to merge by hand would be a cure worse than the disease. [17:06] patrickmw: modulo pitti's comments, which are correct [17:06] Then maybe editing the release notes in a gobbie doc or some shared document system. [17:07] the wiki works fine for me, to be perfectly honest [17:07] I really don't care about the odd conflict, as long as they're all resolved for release [17:07] well, its extra work vs a working lock system [17:07] though i simply count on the fact that we have a working wiki next release :) [17:08] it worked in the past too [17:08] anything outside the wiki page is worse than editing in the wiki page, because the wiki page exists from the previous milestone and needs to be evolved [17:08] editing somewhere else guarantees the need to resolve conflicts [17:08] indeed [17:12] Is the following link in the technical overview correct? http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/download [17:13] Actually is the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/TechnicalOverview the thing to be reviewing? [17:19] bdmurray: moved to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/ReleaseNotes [17:22] charlie-tca: thanks [17:30] FYI, we're going to try an Ubuntu desktop respin for another attempt at fixing bug 771517, but rather than posting it to the ISO tracker, we'll post it to that bug and see if it actually fixes it. If not, we'll just stick with the tested images we have [17:30] Launchpad bug 771517 in wubi "Natty Wubi install via ubiquity fails saying no such file or directory found (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771517 [17:31] (and I'm not desperate to ensure that absolutely every single image is up to date with that fix, if we do manage to fix it for real) [17:48] prepublication is done, BTW [17:50] thanks cjwatson. :) === jj-afk is now known as jjohansen [18:11] skaet: On kubuntu-mobile for armel (omap3 & omap4), there is no way to boot them as they sit. The images are not complete (see my earlier pastebin). Also, even after grafting them into a working image, they still have a lot of issues keeping them from running properly. [18:12] which earlier pastebin? [18:12] http://paste.ubuntu.com/599850/ ? [18:12] GrueMaster, ok, they won't be going out. [18:12] we haven't had code changes that account for that varying file(1) output [18:13] therefore, I assume that the code must be unreliable in some way [18:13] no, they probably failed to build ... but not in a way the builder has catched it [18:13] cjwatson: I don't know what the problem is either, but the current images are not complete. [18:13] has anyone diffed build logs? [18:13] And it appears to only happen around release week (same for beta 1 & beta 2). [18:16] -W: Unable to read /srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/scratch/kubuntu-mobile/daily-preinstalled/apt/natty-armel+omap/apt/preferences.d/ - FileExists (2: No such file or directory) [18:16] +W: Failed to fetch file:/srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/ftp-universe-ports/dists/natty/main/binary-armel/Packages.bz2 Hash Sum mismatch [18:16] that suggests that a rebuild with a quiescent cdimage build machine should fix it [18:16] there's no reason not to give it a try, at least [18:17] I can test if they get fixed. [18:17] But there are other issues once this is resolved that prevent the images from working. [18:17] what kind of issues ? [18:18] anything that can be worked around without uploads ? [18:18] Once oem-config finishes, X is supposed to restart, but there is no gui. [18:18] hmm, doesnt sound like something to easily work around [18:19] I'm asking on kubuntu-devel, but I have only been able to get it working by moving plasma-mobile.desktop to /usr/share/autostart. [18:19] sounds like kdm [18:20] kubuntu-mobile uses nodm. [18:20] ah [18:20] wasnt that a bug before already ? [18:20] Beta 2. [18:20] I filed it. [18:20] * ogra_ thought there was a discussion about that issue [18:20] yeah [18:21] On their wiki (mainly geared for the N900), they have several *tweeks* they recommend before booting. [18:22] Like reomving all of nepomuk from /usr/share/autostart (it crashes on armel currently). [18:22] hrm, why didnt these make it into the image ? [18:22] * GrueMaster only tests what I am given. [18:22] indeed, but for such cases we could have added hacks to jasper [18:23] I'm going to pull the x86 iso and see if it is similar. [18:23] (and do it more properly than rm'ing files) [18:23] The lead for kubuntu-mobile didn't even know about jasper until yesterday. [18:23] hrm [18:24] The two biggest issues I see here are lack of platforms and lack of communication with our team. [18:25] yes [18:36] * skaet --> dinner, back on later === skaet is now known as skaet_ [18:39] WTF, why is anonftpsync for universe rewriting every file in the universe pool? [18:39] insane badgers [18:41] oh, not all, just lots. that doesn't make very much more sense [18:41] all allegedly files that didn't exist [18:42] deeply weird [18:44] oh, it must be files that are symlinks to other components [18:44] i.e. stuff that's been moved around [18:45] so probably sort of required for correctness, but not doing speed any favours though :-/ [18:45] and I suspect that being so damn slow means that it spans multiple publisher cycles [18:48] I'll work on reliability of that next cycle, I guess [18:49] (dinner) [19:24] skaet_, i've added a release note that i would like in the release notes to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-release-notes/+bug/768625 [19:24] Launchpad bug 768625 in sudo (Ubuntu Oneiric) (and 2 other projects) "user prompted for sudo changes on upgrade in ec2/uec image (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Medium,Confirmed] [19:32] pitti, would you mind waiving the 7 day time for the SRU on bug 771560? It's quite specific to a process that is only used by us, and i've already confirmed it fixed the problem. had i found it a day earlier i would have had it uploaded for the primary archive [19:32] Launchpad bug 771560 in dell-recovery (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "GRUB menu pops up needlessly during factory install process (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771560 === guido is now known as Guest56135 [20:52] hi guys; there's new ubuntuone-storage-protocol and ubuntuone-client in the natty-proposed queue, that we'd like to have as 0day SRUs. can we expedite them please? [23:09] SpamapS: bug 770379 says you accepted dobey's ubuntuone-client upload into natty-proposed but it's still in the unaccepted queue [23:09] Launchpad bug 770379 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "Recommends wrong version of gir1.2-unity-3.0 (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770379 [23:10] Riddell: I think it was marked as verification-failed [23:11] Riddell: I seem to recall seb testing the upgrade and noting that the upgrade still does not pull in the recommended gir package. [23:11] Riddell: which means either a) it needs to be added to update-manager's magic, or b) it needs to be a Depends: === bjf is now known as bjf[afk] [23:14] ah so this is a second upload to fix that [23:14] I'll leave it to you or another SRU member then [23:15] Yeah there's been a lot for the 0-day queue.. I'm working on one that I need to upload at the moment actually. ;) === skaet_ is now known as skaet [23:25] GrueMaster: I think the current kubuntu-mobile images should be better - no hash sum mismatch errors in the build logs [23:26] I guess I might as well post that? the current images have no successful tests registered anyway [23:26] Did they get rebuilt since yesterday? [23:27] yes [23:27] I did [23:27] and file(1) is now saying "x86 boot sector" rather than "data" for me [23:27] Ok. I'll give them a quick spin as soon as I get my desktop working again. [23:27] cdimage@antimony:~/cdimage/www/full/kubuntu-mobile$ zcat daily-preinstalled/20110427/natty-preinstalled-mobile-armel+omap.img.gz | file - [23:27] /dev/stdin: x86 boot sector; partition 1: ID=0xc, active, starthead 1, startsector 63, 144522 sectors; partition 2: ID=0x83, starthead 0, startsector 144585, 4707045 sectors, code offset 0x0 [23:27] cdimage@antimony:~/cdimage/www/full/kubuntu-mobile$ zcat daily-preinstalled/20110426.1/natty-preinstalled-mobile-armel+omap.img.gz | file - [23:27] /dev/stdin: Linux rev 1.0 ext3 filesystem data, UUID=cd04ea0a-2c1d-428e-88fd-f01a29ea82fb (large files) [23:27] er, sorry, that's backwards [23:27] Cool [23:27] cdimage@antimony:~/cdimage/www/full/kubuntu-mobile$ zcat daily-preinstalled/20110426.1/natty-preinstalled-mobile-armel+omap.img.gz | file - [23:27] /dev/stdin: Linux rev 1.0 ext3 filesystem data, UUID=cd04ea0a-2c1d-428e-88fd-f01a29ea82fb (large files) [23:27] cdimage@antimony:~/cdimage/www/full/kubuntu-mobile$ zcat daily-preinstalled/20110427/natty-preinstalled-mobile-armel+omap.img.gz | file - [23:27] /dev/stdin: x86 boot sector; partition 1: ID=0xc, active, starthead 1, startsector 63, 144522 sectors; partition 2: ID=0x83, starthead 0, startsector 144585, 4707045 sectors, code offset 0x0 [23:27] and similarly for omap4 [23:28] Did you figureout theproblem? [23:28] I commented on it in scrollback above [23:28] 18:45 and I suspect that being so damn slow means that it spans multiple publisher cycles [23:28] 18:48 I'll work on reliability of that next cycle, I guess [23:29] mirroring to antimony spans multiple publisher cycles, thus the archive mirror on cdimage is inconsistent, thus world blows up [23:29] Ah [23:30] not a new problem, but I didn't realise it was so serious [23:30] posted, anyway [23:31] and posted Ubuntu desktop with updated wubi, as agreed with jibel [23:34] prepublished updated Ubuntu desktop images [23:42] heya, anyone know if rbelem is around? [23:45] skaet: yes, he's testing now [23:45] skaet: he's in #kubuntu-devel right now [23:45] Riddel, yofel - thanks.