[00:00] <shauno> c&w isn't cable & wireless is it?  I thought they were gone
[00:00] <hamitron> gone?
[00:00] <hamitron> doesn't thus use it?
[00:00] <ali1234> they still exist as a wholesale providor
[00:01] <ali1234> and yes thus uses it
[00:01] <ali1234> it's ntl that doesn't exist any more
[00:01] <ali1234> they bought a large part of C&W but not all ofit
[00:03] <shauno> ahok
[00:03] <hamitron> I want Demon Business 2+
[00:03] <hamitron> :)
[00:03] <ali1234> hamitron: since you use demon you have static IP, so you can use 6to4
[00:03] <shauno> didn't realise it'd gone in chunks.  just knew in newcastle it went from c&w to telewest to ntl to virgin
[00:04] <hamitron> ali1234: I can
[00:04] <hamitron> but I don't like half-bridge
[00:04] <ali1234> so don't use it
[00:04] <ali1234> throw out router number 2
[00:04] <hamitron> I just have visions of it going wrong
[00:04] <ali1234> just use number 1
[00:05] <hamitron> number 1 crashes with too much load, can't do NAT
[00:05] <hamitron> ;)
[00:05] <ali1234> ok so in reality this has nothing to do with ipv6
[00:05] <hamitron> it does
[00:05] <hamitron> as well as
[00:05] <hamitron> the whole picture is.... want this mess sorted out
[00:06] <hamitron> haha
[00:06] <ali1234> no. because the half-bridge is not affecting your ability to use ipv6 at all
[00:06] <hamitron> 6to4 is a temp solution init?
[00:06] <ali1234> yes, so is tunneling
[00:06] <hamitron> yeh
[00:07] <ali1234> they will both work with your current setup
[00:07] <hamitron> I want a router with native IPv6 to be ready to receive IP from the ISP
[00:07] <hamitron> yep
[00:07] <ali1234> so....... buy one
[00:07] <hamitron> if I have to buy another router, gonna wait longer
[00:07] <hamitron> see what services are in my local area
[00:07] <ali1234> probably a good idea
[00:08] <hamitron> only got ADSL Max atm
[00:08] <hamitron> but my main worry is I am not always at home
[00:09] <hamitron> and I have to rely on people who stupid, even by newbs standards
[00:10] <hamitron> and females like to clean too much, knock cables :/
[00:10] <hamitron> maybe best idea is to just make a box, put everything in it and label it "get off"
[00:12] <hamitron> ali1234: I desperately want C&W in my exchange, so i can renew the ISP contract, and know what I'll be using for the next 2 years
[00:12] <hamitron> also will cost less per month
[00:12] <hamitron> other options are sky and talktalk ;/
[00:14] <hamitron> anyways
[00:14] <hamitron> coffee time \o/
[00:14] <hamitron> brb
[00:22] <hamitron> bk
[00:36] <shauno> just figured out my router does snmp, so I've pointed mrtg at it.  see what that comes up with
[00:38] <fred> morning y'all
[00:38] <hamitron> evening
[01:11] <shauno> this is when my sleep pattern comes back to bite me.  job interview tomorrow, and not remotely tired :/
[01:12] <hamitron> :\
[01:12] <hamitron> at least if you get it.... should sort out the problem? :)
[01:15] <shauno> unlikely.  it doesn't stop me when I work at 6am either :)
[01:15] <hamitron> haha
[01:15] <hamitron> no self control....
[01:15] <hamitron> says me, still going strong :/
[01:16] <shauno> it'll mean no more shift work tho :)  no more bank holidays, working xmas, etc
[01:22] <hamitron> ffs, 94Kb/s is just too slow for some downloads :/
[01:22] <hamitron> I should just move house
[03:39] <Sonique> Hi
[03:39] <Sonique> I have a question about the minimal and alternate install CDs.
[03:40] <Sonique> When I to install a command line version of Ubuntu for either of them, my network/ethernet card is not detected (JMicron jmc250)
[03:40] <Sonique> And the installation won't proceed because of this.
[03:41] <Sonique> I have tried reading through numerous forum threads on ubuntuforums..
[03:41] <Sonique> However, I haven't come across a solution that works
[03:42] <Sonique> There is even a launchpad bug that keeps being turned down as invalid: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/400297?comments=all
[03:44] <Sonique> Sorry got disconnected.
[03:44] <Sonique> Yes! That is the bug (our chats crossed) :)
[03:45] <Sonique> I actually went to the JMicron site and downloaded the ethernet driver for this card
[03:45] <Sonique> The question is can I somehow integrate this driver into either the minimal iso or the alternate cd?
[03:45] <Sonique> Sort of a slipstream...
[03:48] <Sonique> Ubuntu bug 400297 doesn't give me any workable solution for Maverick Meerkat (10.10)
[03:48] <Sonique> yikes
[03:48] <Sonique> so that was a robot
[03:49] <Sonique> hahah
[03:49] <Sonique> I thought someone actually was reading what I was on about
[03:49] <Sonique> Guess no
[03:49] <Sonique> t
[07:50] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:55] <shauno> morning
[07:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> Meauning
[08:07] <daubers> o/
[08:25] <danfish> o/
[08:40] <ali1234> well the mac mini turned up
[08:41] <ali1234> i dunno why they have to make these things so hard to use
[08:41] <danfish> how so?
[08:41] <ali1234> how do i boot it from CD?
[08:41] <danfish> from memory, press and hold down c on boot
[08:42] <ali1234> yes that's really obvious
[08:42] <danfish> :)
[08:42] <ali1234> i have to reset the admin password
[08:44] <ali1234> i hope forcing a password reset from the install cd doesn't do anything silly like wipe the keys for an encrypted volume
[08:44] <shauno> only if you're using filevault :)
[08:45] <ali1234> i dunno what the person is using
[08:45] <ali1234> well, they should have backed up their stuff before they sent it to me
[08:45] <shauno> you can start a shell from the same menu you do the password change from
[08:45] <ali1234> why would i want to do that?
[08:45] <shauno> if you see files in /User/them/ that look normal (documents, music, etc), they're not using filevault
[08:48] <ali1234> it's giving me a warning about unlocking the keyring
[08:48] <shauno> yeah.  changing the password from the CD won't unlock that either
[08:49] <ali1234> well that's ok i only need to install the app store and create a user account for myself
[08:49] <shauno> so you won't have stored passwords for their email, wireless networks, etc
[08:50] <ali1234> ok i am confused
[08:50] <ali1234> apple website says to get the app store i just run software update
[08:50] <ali1234> but it's not on the list of updates to be installed
[08:51] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:51] <shauno> it's part of one of the OS updates.  I believe 10.6.6
[08:51] <shauno> if you bring the OS up to current, it'll just appear.  it's not done piecemeal
[08:53] <ali1234> damn the updates are like 2GB
[08:53] <ali1234> then i have to download 4GB xocde
[08:53] <ali1234> that will put me over my monthly usage limit
[08:53] <ali1234> this sucks
[08:53] <ali1234> i hate macs
[08:58] <shauno> yeah.  they should just make their updates out of fairy dust like other OSes, rather than downloading data.  that's so clunky
[09:01] <daubers> Did berlios.de die?
[09:02] <daubers> ali1234: You can download the updates from somewhere else
[09:02] <daubers> ali1234: http://support.apple.com/kb/dl1349
[09:04] <CaveMan> Richard_P
[09:06]  * Mez signs
[09:06] <ali1234> daubers: it's still 1GB
[09:06]  * Mez sighs too
[09:07] <Mez> Anyone wanna rewrite my CV for me ? (It's something I'm going to have to do again)
[09:07] <shauno> I think he means physically somewhere else.  eg, grab them at work if bandwidth is an issue
[09:08] <shauno> still, retail to current is 1.2Gb.  you shouldn't have to do that much unless it's been a 18 months since anyone updated the machine
[09:11] <ali1234> i'm at work
[09:11] <ali1234> i'm also at home
[09:11] <wintellect> Mornin all
[09:11] <ali1234> anyway the updates are monolithic
[09:12] <ali1234> any version not current -> current = 1GB download
[09:12] <DJones> Mez: Enforced job change?
[09:16] <daubers> ali1234: What version are you running now?
[09:16] <ali1234> 10.6.3
[09:17] <ali1234> since it's owned by a normal person it has probably not been updated since it was bought
[09:23] <Mez> DJones: Nah - Google Recruiter :)
[09:24] <Mez> (they made me update my CV last time to be very specific - so I'm going to make sure I get it right to to them first time round this time :)
[09:25] <shauno> I know it's not gonna stop you whining, but they're monolithic for a reason.  you can download them granular, but it sucks.  10.6.3->.4 (720Mb) -> .5 (600Mb) ->.6 (150Mb) -> .7 (475Mb) ..
[09:27] <DJones> Mez: Agencies always make me laugh when they want specific things on the cv you send them, then they send something completely different to potential employers anyway
[09:28] <Myrtti> oof
[09:28] <Myrtti> 4000 job reductions being negotiated at Nokia Finland :-(
[09:29] <Myrtti> oh no, only 1400 in Finland...
[09:29] <Myrtti> only... :-(
[09:29] <bigcalm> :(
[09:30] <Mez> DJones: no - this is google - they basically previously asked me to cut out the cruft (the jobs that weren't related to IT) and add in all my IT related volunteering stuff (DD, etc etc)
[09:31] <ali1234> "we read your CV and we'd like to hire you, but first, please rewrite your CV"
[09:32] <Myrtti> google recruiters are fun, tried recruiting me too
[09:32] <Myrtti> dont know why, I still cant programme
[09:32] <Mez> ali1234: actually, it was more so that when they passed it on to other people - they have more concise info.
[09:32] <Mez> Myrtti: you don't need to program :)
[09:32] <Mez> Myrtti: How far did you get along the recruitment process (and this is the second time round for me)
[09:33] <Myrtti> well thats what the email said, looking for php python java c++
[09:33] <oimon> Good 1st quarter results for ARM today: "Shipments of ARM-processor-based chips increased 33pc on the same period last year"
[09:34] <oimon> interestingly they mention AMD: "AMD is a company that is very capable of deploying ARM technology"
[09:34] <Myrtti> I didnt even bother to reply the email, Ive got too much other stuff going on
[09:34] <Mez> Myrtti: lol - fair enough :)  From what I remember though - last time I applied they were looking for that - and the recruiters initial call determined that I'd be better applying for the SRE team)
[09:35] <MooDoo> *YAWN*
[09:36] <oimon> i must say, i've never really considered working at google
[09:36]  * Mez shoves a sock in MooDoo's mouth
[09:37] <ali1234> oimon: use gmail for long enough and you'll get the first offer
[09:37] <oimon> sounds like it takes over your life a bit too much
[09:37] <ali1234> they'll want you to move to some third world country of course
[09:37] <oimon> the UK?
[09:37] <oimon> i'm already here
[09:38] <Mez> oimon: takes over your life??? Hmm... maybe.. but if you're in a job that you'd do as a hobby....
[09:38] <bigcalm> What updates /etc/motd?
[09:38] <oimon> i don't fly anymore, so any job i do can't involve international travel
[09:40] <MooDoo> thanks Mez what's that for?
[09:40] <Mez> MooDoo: for yawning
[09:40] <Mez> bigcalm: a reboot
[09:40] <MooDoo> Mez: ah lol sorry :)
[09:40] <Mez> bigcalm: or updatemotd
[09:40] <popey> Morning all!
[09:40] <bigcalm> Hi popey!
[09:40] <MooDoo> morning popey
[09:40] <ali1234> what os x says more updates? i just updated!
[09:40] <bigcalm> My motd has been squiffy for a while now: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/599676/
[09:41]  * bigcalm replaces it with some ascii art
[09:41] <popey> haha, i see lots of people got the SRE google recruit spam then :)
[09:41] <bigcalm> ?
[09:42] <oimon> bigcalm: here's my motd http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/599677/
[09:42] <bigcalm> \o/
[09:42] <popey> bigcalm: people here like Mez and Myrtti
[09:42] <bigcalm> popey: I see
[09:42] <oimon> you need a name beginning with M
[09:43] <oimon> popey: what's your opinion on the e-machines £99 vs the aspire revo?
[09:43] <oimon> my old friend mungojerry probably has one
[09:43]  * oimon misses mungojerry
[09:43] <Mez> popey: I presume you had it too ?
[09:43] <bigcalm> The e-machine has N while the Revo only has g
[09:45] <popey> oimon: offer looks to have finished
[09:45] <popey> Mez: yeah, i get mail from them now and then
[09:45] <Mez> popey: never applied?
[09:46] <popey> nope
[09:46] <oimon> wow ..i checked at 9 o clock
[09:46] <oimon> 249 in stock
[09:46] <oimon> so only 3 were purchased in that time
[09:48] <oimon> the windows version is £100 more
[09:48] <DJones> Grr, why does the IT support turn up at work when its not to install my new computer, what other reason can be more important
[09:48] <ali1234> £99 is special offer
[09:48] <ali1234> it normally costs £200
[09:48] <oimon> ali1234: it's all academic now i suppose, i didn't realise the offer only lasted 30 mins
[09:50] <popey> i dunno how long it lasted
[09:50] <popey> i just clicked it and the offer seemed ended
[09:52] <oimon> anyone know how i can dumnp a list of applications installed on my (non-rooted) android phone?
[10:03] <DJones> oimon: http://atrackdog.a0soft.com/app.php?id=9 says "Export app list for sharing"
[10:03] <dwatkins> oimon: the market remembers what you've bought, so you can just click the 'download em all' link on a new phone, otherwise it appears you might have to write an app or use DJones' app: http://qtcstation.com/2011/02/how-to-launch-another-app-from-your-app/
[10:05] <dwatkins> DJones: that looks really handy, thanks
[10:06] <DJones> dwatkins: From what I could see, it only seems to list after market installs rather than default system apps, but certainly looks useful to know what you've installed
[10:06] <dwatkins> DJones: yeah, that sounds likely, unfortunately. I think I'd probably install Cyanogenmod if I wiped my phone and started again. The market has a record of what I've added at least, I gather.
[10:07] <DJones> dwatkins: I'd never realised/noticed that the market kept that info, although I shouldn't be surprised should I, it is google after all
[10:08] <dwatkins> Yeah, they do like to track stuff.
[10:08] <DJones> and "by stuff", google mean "everything"
[10:11] <dwatkins> They certainly have the capacity to track a lot of data.
[10:17] <gord> google is just curious is all!
[10:18] <dwatkins> oh is that all they collect the data for? ;)
[10:18] <gord> google doesn't have anything on Zeitgeist anyway ;)
[10:21] <dwatkins> The movie?
[10:25] <gord> the software
[10:26] <gord> it can know what you did, where you did it, what you were doing at the time and what you did it with
[10:32] <gord> i miss the days when you could pass a web page into a gtk file open dialogue and it would just work
[10:42] <oimon> thanks DJones, dwatkins
[10:42] <oimon> my sis has a new phone so i wanted to recommend some apps
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> Just the google ones
[10:45] <oimon> plus the peter griffin soundboard :)
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> Who?
[10:55] <oimon> just my little joke :)
[10:56] <oimon> peter griffin is family guy tc show
[11:03] <davmor2> morning all
[11:03] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[11:04] <popey> morning davmor2
[11:05] <davmor2> morning popey how's life down South?
[11:07] <popey> Great!
[11:09] <davmor2> popey: I heard this rumour that some prat has taken to invading the release party with a wedding, I mean pick a day when they put up bunting and the like for the ubuntu release to try and make out it's some grandiose thing pffff
[11:12] <DJones> davmor2: I heard Kate & Bill picked tomorrow because they knew there was going to be the Ubuntu Natty bank holiday, so all their mates wouldn't need to take a day off work to attend the wedding
[11:14] <gord> i have enough passwords these days that when logging in to things i don't even bother trying, i just press the "email me my password" option. starting to think that kind of authentication should be the default one
[11:14] <ali1234> you mean like... SSO?
[11:14] <oimon> doesn't firefox remember them for you?
[11:15] <directhex> it's a good case for OpenID
[11:15] <gord> not always, firefox has to detect websites with passwords and its not always able to
[11:15] <directhex> also a good case for a password manager like Keepass
[11:15] <ali1234> it probably would do if i didn't have to delete the firefox settings every three months because it gets too slow
[11:15] <oimon> yeah :(
[11:15] <oimon> the profile gets corrupted regularly
[11:15] <oimon> particularly the history
[11:15] <oimon> stil prefer it to chromium though for some reason
[11:16] <popey> gord: lastpass
[11:17] <dogmatic69> how is Piranha for clustering on ubuntu?
[11:17] <dogmatic69> is that a good solution?
[11:17] <directhex> what kind of clustering?
[11:17] <oimon> just noticing that the PSN hackers also got data of birth and mother's maiden name...you can't go changing those!
[11:17] <gord> yeah seen that kind of thing before, don't really trust the software
[11:17] <gord> not to mention, don't want to get my passwords locked into some software
[11:18] <dogmatic69> directhex: im thinking 2x load balancers (one master + backup) and n servers
[11:18] <ali1234> irc is good for nut clustering
[11:18] <davmor2> gord: lastpass plugin for firefox?
[11:18] <gord> just seems to me that emailing me to ask if i should be allowed to log in is a better authentication method than a password that the website will store in plain text on their server because web devs are terrible terrible people
[11:19] <gord> not all web devs obviously ;)
[11:19] <DJones> ali1234: The vet is good for nut unclustering as one of my dogs will confirm later today :D
[11:19] <ali1234> it *is* a better method
[11:19] <dogmatic69> i love getting emails after registering... "your username is x and your password is y, please keep it in a safe place"
[11:21] <awilkins> I presume that's the sarcastic tense of "love"
[11:22] <SuperMatt> anyone know if the gnome 3 ppa still breaks unity?
[11:23] <gord> using the gnome 3 ppa is kind of like installing random libraries from natty into maverick, i would not recommend it
[11:24] <SuperMatt> OK!
[11:24] <directhex> natty isn't a gnome 3 release, installing a bucket of gnome 3 libs is asking for trouble
[11:24] <directhex> (sadly)
[11:25] <directhex> right... time for 11.04 i guess
[11:25] <gord> well gnome 3 came too late in the cycle, we knew that would be the case six months ago when they delayed it yet again
[11:26]  * SuperMatt nods
[11:27] <directhex> it's the first ubuntu version to ship with outdated gnome, afaik
[11:28] <oimon> "Storing passwords as hashes instead of plain text is now illegal in France"
[11:29] <dogmatic69> oimon: that is not true
[11:29] <awilkins> Happily, you're not actually storing the password when you use a hash
[11:29] <dogmatic69> it can be encrypted
[11:29] <awilkins> You have to use reversible encryption?
[11:30] <dogmatic69> awilkins: you could use 'encryption' that is not reversible and blame it on a bug :D
[11:30] <soneill> sorry - just noticed this conversation - do you have a link to more info on this as it sounds quite interesting?
[11:31] <dogmatic69> http://tricomts.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/france-to-outlaw-hash-passwords/
[11:31] <soneill> thanks dogmatic69
[11:31] <awilkins> http://www.ewanleith.com/blog/116/france-requires-new-silly-data-retention-policies
[11:31] <dogmatic69> np
[11:31] <BigRedS> AFAIK, that's Daily mail style reporting
[11:32] <BigRedS> the actual law is more "If the password is stored in plain text, you need to make it available to law enforcement agencies if they ask"
[11:32] <directhex> or in sony's case, to anyone!
[11:32] <popey> s/anyone/everyone
[11:32] <BigRedS> FWIG, but I'm not French and that's fourth- or fifth- hand translation
[11:32] <BigRedS> haha
[11:32] <oimon> BigRedS: i seem to have fallen foul of the mistransalated article
[11:32] <gord> the whole sony thing is fine, everyones passwords were already known from the gawker thing
[11:33] <popey> :)
[11:33] <popey> I had to change all mine thanks to gawker
[11:33] <popey> glad I did though
[11:33] <popey> now they're all different
[11:33] <oimon> BigRedS: it doesn't seem as bad as the dailymail headlines after all
[11:33] <BigRedS> oimon: most of the english-language press reported it as "md5 banned in france"
[11:33] <gord> yeah me too, but i'd been procrastinating doing that for a while - more hacks to make me do things please!
[11:33] <BigRedS> which, I suspect, is because our government *is* daft enough to pass a law like that
[11:33] <BigRedS> but the French one isn't
[11:34] <gord> this psn hack has made me set up two stage verification on my gmail address, yay
[11:34] <oimon> BigRedS: passwords and hashes must be provided if they are stored, and must be kept for one year after
[11:34] <oimon> gord: ifs the 2 stage verification involving a mobile phone?
[11:34] <gord> tis
[11:34] <oimon> i think that would bite me one day
[11:34] <BigRedS> oimon: yeah, that sounds about right. It's hard to find someone to translate legalese French into peasant's English :)
[11:34] <oimon> when i'm out of battery
[11:34] <gord> you get some additional codes that you can print off, good for one use
[11:35] <oimon> somebody got my mates gmail account and got up to all sorts of shenanigans
[11:36] <popey> http://www.fastcodesign.com/1663683/far-better-than-3-d-animated-gifs-that-savor-a-passing-moment
[11:36] <popey> nice
[11:37] <gord> i saw that a few days ago, it *still* bugs me that they reference 3d. it has nothing to do with 3d >:(
[11:43] <directhex> the last innovative use of .gif was images which "wobble", and turn 3d if you cross your eyes a little
[11:44] <BigRedS> gord: it's only using 3D in the sense of "this is better than 3d"
[11:44] <BigRedS> since 3d is current for 'cool'
[11:45] <ali1234> it's not better than 3d
[11:45] <popey> you dont need special glasses to view it :)
[11:46] <popey> which makes it 'better' in at least one way
[11:46] <awilkins> I'm kind of tired of people who shout things like "3D is a giant scam!!"
[11:46] <ali1234> oh, 3d is a giant scam, that is certain
[11:46] <popey> haha
[11:46] <popey> in the same way widescreen, dolby digital, HD... were?
[11:46] <ali1234> no
[11:46] <ali1234> all of those were an improvement
[11:46] <popey> a way to get people back into the cinema away from telly?
[11:46] <ali1234> 3d just looks dumb
[11:47] <awilkins> I like 3D done well, and I think this generation of tech is the first to do it well
[11:47] <ali1234> the problem with 3d is it is not really 3d
[11:47] <ali1234> you can't look behind something
[11:47] <ali1234> it's very annoying
[11:47] <DJones> I always liked the sterescopic 3d pictures that were popular in the late 90's
[11:47] <awilkins> Some films it adds to - "How to Train Your Dragon" was enhanced by it, some films are just rubbish - Beowulf
[11:49] <awilkins> Besides, how else are they going to prime the R&D pump for the full-holodeck experience without selling massive 3D TVs to everyone :P
[11:49]  * awilkins notes that he still has a relatively old 28" CRT television that weighs about 50kg
[11:50] <directhex> ali1234, fixed focal distance is annoying, yes
[11:50] <directhex> ali1234, it's not an issue in some circumstances, it is in others
[11:51] <awilkins> I find it helps my waning focal muscles in my right eye by forcing both eyes to focus to see the picture properly
[11:52] <ali1234> it's not an issue as long as you have your head clamped in a vice while watching the movie
[11:52] <ali1234> sounds good lol
[11:52] <davmor2> awilkins: It is?  The 3d is only realistically 2 1/2 d at best.  Until they make holographic projectors where you don't need to look a prat in glasses then it is a big CON!
[11:52] <czajkowski> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/27/nokia_cuts_memo/
[11:52] <directhex> ali1234, you mentioned movies, not me
[11:53] <ali1234> also it has nothing to do with fixed focal distance
[11:53] <ali1234> and everything to do with total lack of parallax motion
[11:53]  * awilkins is a little peeved at the lack of love for his N900 now
[11:54] <directhex> awilkins, we have an office filled with n900 owners. and developers, to a degree. nokia news is always "fun"
[11:54] <ali1234> ^ if any of this news comes as a surprise you haven't been paying attention
[11:55] <ali1234> nokia pretty much pulled out of meego months ago
[11:55] <awilkins> Oh hell, yes, not a surprise
[11:55] <ali1234> despite constant denials, everyone knew it was happening
[11:55] <ali1234> and they've never supported old devices with updates
[11:55] <directhex> it does raise interesting questions for contractors with previously signed multi-year contracts
[11:56] <awilkins> I was even laying the groundwork for trying out the developer image of MeeGo a couple of nights ago
[11:56] <ali1234> the idea of n900 getting a real meego official and supported install has never been on the table
[11:56] <ali1234> awilkins: trying meego on n900 is real easy, there is no ground work except for install 1 package and dd an image to an sd card, it takes 5 minutes
[11:57] <awilkins> ali1234, Yeah, I installed the SD card kernel loader, now my phone boots with a penguin, just didn't get around to preparing the card
[11:57] <awilkins> It was bedtime
[11:57] <ali1234> awilkins: i wrote that code :)
[11:57] <oimon> there seems to be an unnerving similarity in the approach of nokia and my own employer lately
[11:58] <awilkins> ali1234, Which image do you recommend, sanity or one of the others?
[11:58] <oimon> nokia are heading all the way down to the bottom
[11:58] <ali1234> awilkins: dunno, i haven't tried one for ages
[11:58] <ali1234> awilkins: take the one with the newest timestamp
[11:59] <ali1234> it's not like they're even at the point of stabilizing yet
[11:59] <awilkins> ali1234, Yeah, the "won't charge off the charger" thing is worrying
[11:59] <ali1234> lol, they *still* haven't fixed that?
[11:59] <awilkins> ali1234, It's not clear whether they have or not
[12:00] <ali1234> well i wouldn't worry, it won't take you longer than about 5 minutes to realize meego is nowhere near done yet
[12:00] <awilkins> aand... "MeeGo trunk is broken at the moment, so DE daily images are not working either."
[12:00] <popey> the n900 was disowned at birth pretty much
[12:00] <ali1234> that's not really true
[12:01] <ali1234> it had as many updates as any other nokia device
[12:01] <popey> i have never seen any assertion otherwise other than by fans who bought one in the hope it would live on
[12:01] <popey> probably more updates than most
[12:01] <ali1234> yes
[12:01] <popey> but the future development of the platform (other than updates) was never really assured
[12:01] <popey> software updates do not a platform make
[12:01] <ali1234> yes but the exact same thing happened with n800
[12:02] <popey> exactly
[12:02] <popey> so this is hardly surprising
[12:02] <ali1234> yeah
[12:02] <popey> its the reason I never bought an n900, despite coveting them greatly
[12:02] <oimon> i almost bought one
[12:02] <oimon> because of the great hardware, and promises
[12:02] <directhex> popey, the n900 was stillborn, thanks to nokia intentionally murdering it
[12:03] <oimon> but went for the desire mainly due to ££ difference
[12:03] <awilkins> Wifelet just got a Desire Z ... I am envious
[12:03] <popey> within a month of it going on sale I was sure it would go nowhere
[12:03] <popey> hence buying an android phone
[12:03] <popey> (HAH!)
[12:03] <oimon> i am coveting the eee pad transformer right now
[12:03] <popey> and now iphone
[12:03] <tugrik> yeah, I used an N900, great little portable linux PC... but figured I'd need to change to something else sooner or later...
[12:03] <ali1234> n900 was never meant to be a phone anyway
[12:03] <tugrik> s/used/use
[12:04] <awilkins> Wonder if you can try this Android / N900 build in a non-permanent manner...
[12:04] <ali1234> nope
[12:04] <ali1234> it's not compatible with u-boot
[12:04] <ali1234> because they use an ancient nokia kernel with too many bugs
[12:05] <awilkins> ali1234, So it could probably be patched up then... shame I don't have time / madskillz
[12:05] <ali1234> i sent a patch for the worst bug
[12:05] <oimon> think yourselves lucky that nokia didn't release a meego tablet 1 month before the MS deal
[12:05] <ali1234> it got applied about 3 days ago (i sent it about 3 months ago)
[12:05] <oimon> all the geeks would have piled in
[12:06] <ali1234> oimon: i think they will still release their "one meego device"
[12:06] <ali1234> (which won't even be meego compliant lol)
[12:06] <oimon> ali1234: but we are wise now...right?? RIGHT???
[12:06] <ali1234> oimon: nobody learned from n800
[12:07] <oimon> and nokia are dropping like a stone , and in bed with MS
[12:08] <oimon> i wonder how much the ad-supported kindles will be
[12:08] <directhex> ali1234, i don't know what's public about their "one meego device"
[12:08] <ali1234> directhex: nothing
[12:09] <ali1234> except that there's supposed to be one
[12:09] <awilkins> I saw a Kindle in the flesh for the first time in Tesco (they are selling them now) and was sooo tempted. That screen is lovely.
[12:09] <ali1234> and it will run "harmatten" and not true meego (so deb packages and stuff)
[12:09] <brobostigon> good afternoon everyone
[12:09] <gord> i have one, its very nice on the eyes :) modified it to run the ubuntu font, even nicer
[12:09] <oimon> awilkins: luxury purchases though IMO considering the cost of e-books and the amount i actually read
[12:10] <directhex> ali1234, ah, so H is public knowledge?
[12:10] <ali1234> i never heard anything about any H
 and it will run "harmatten" and not true meego (so deb packages and stuff)
[12:10] <ali1234> well, the codename has been known since before the n900 was even available
[12:10] <oimon> harmageddon more like :P
[12:10] <directhex> really? man, that's been baking for a while
[12:11] <ali1234> they announced it when they announced the n900 and meego conf
[12:11] <ali1234> "here's maemo 5, oh btw, we're now working on maemo 6, it will be all Qt based"
[12:11] <awilkins> oimon, Yeah, I think the only way I'd get use out of it would be to load a chunk of Project Gutenberg onto it and make a real effort
[12:24] <X3N> fun fact, the kindle runs a large portion of the GNOME stack
[12:24] <BigRedS> really? What for?
[12:24] <directhex> the shop.
[12:25] <X3N> pango, cairo and gtk are used
[12:25] <directhex> so it has webkit for that. and gstreamer for the mp3 player
[12:25] <directhex> amazon are not community collaborators though
[12:26] <X3N> well they maybe indirectly
[12:28] <oimon> kindle wifi doesn't work on certain networks , big shame
[12:28] <oimon> e.g. WPA enterprise /eduroam
[12:29] <gord> works on my phones wifi hotspot, all that matters for me :)
[12:30] <oimon> see this? http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51371
[12:30] <oimon> while we are all talking about tracking users
[12:33] <DJones> oimon: All we need now is for Bigfoot to get a mobile phone/kindle/tablet etc and we'd know exactly where to find him & his family
[12:33] <oimon> DJones: it's been a while since i thought about him..since i was 6 in fact
[12:34] <oimon> mysteries of the universe change a bit since then in my mind.
[12:35] <oimon> like "why do people always walk through train carriages?" why not use the doors on the carriage you want.
[12:36] <DJones> oimon: I caught a glimpse of a Simpsons episode last night where Homer had been mistaken for Bigfoot which was what brought it to mind
[12:36] <gord> because the carriage you wanted turned out to be full of kids?
[12:36] <oimon> and if ticket inspectors earn more than their salary in revenue protection, why not have more inspectors on trains?
[12:37] <oimon> gord: in n london, walking up train carriages is very popular
[12:37] <oimon> the same people seem to do it
[12:38] <oimon> usually with their kids etc. maybe they are practising for when the inspector comes on.
[12:40] <gord> grrr at websites that take you to a javascript thing if you open a link in a new tab.
[12:41] <oimon> hmm i'm using 1.2gb of RAM (out of 4gb) and 2.3gb of Swap
[12:50] <DJones> That sounds wierd
[12:51] <DJones> why use swap when there's available free memory
[12:51] <gord> because things got swapped in at some point when memory usage was higher, its lower now
[12:52] <DJones> gord: So if something is transferred to swap, it gets left there until needed, rather than transferred as soon as memory is available, I hadn't realised that
[12:53] <ali1234> this is the reason why you leave the computer over night or over lunch, when you come back and click on something, the HD grinds for 5 minutes before it works again
[12:54] <BigRedS> yeah, no point expending effort transforming one pattern of bits needlessly to another pattern of bits
[12:54] <ali1234> it's because some task, usually slocate-updatedb ran, used all physical memory, everything else got swapped out and then didn't get swapped back in
[12:57] <ali1234> actually slocate-updatedb is kind of a worst possible case
[12:57] <DJones> When you've been used to a machine with only 512Mb ram, you expect everything to be in swap anyway
[12:57] <ali1234> it looks at every file exactly one, which means it fills up the filesystem cache and then never uses it
[12:58] <ali1234> and if swappiness > 0 then program memory will get swapped out in favour of cache
[12:58] <ali1234> so it basically makes *everything* get swapped out
[12:58] <ali1234> and then it doesn't get swapped back in until you come to use the computer
[12:59] <ali1234> another interesting quirk of the way swap work on linux... consider the firefox caches
[12:59] <ali1234> it has a ram cache and a disk cache that it manages itself
[12:59] <ali1234> but due to the way swappiness works
[12:59] <ali1234> there is a good chance that firefox's ram cache will be swapped out in favour of caching in RAM firefox's disk cache
[12:59] <ali1234> which means the ram cache could be slower to access than the disk cache
[13:00] <ali1234> and this is why apps should not try to be cleverer than the OS
[13:10] <oimon> i did a swapoff -a; swapon -a while buying lunch :D
[13:11] <oimon> i really should run some tests though since i don't usually have > 60% RAM usage
[13:12] <oimon> although firefox had crashed overnight so maybe it ate all the free space on my system
[13:18] <popey> holy cow ATI 5970 is an expensive device
[13:21] <gord> they are the super high end versions of the 5000 series, so yup
[13:21] <hamitron> good afternoon all
[13:21] <hamitron> :))
[13:21] <popey> just saw someone talking about buying one (or more) for bitcoin mining
[13:23] <gord> bitcoin mining?
[13:23] <oimon> must be someting to do with minecraft
[13:23] <oimon> has anyone made a dire straits minecraft parody vid yet?
[13:23] <gord> no, bitcoin is a type of virtual currency or something
[13:23] <popey> yes
[13:23] <popey> that
[13:24]  * hamitron doesn't trust bitcoin
[13:24] <gord> its the mining thing i don't understand :)
[13:25] <gord> ah, wikipedia says the network generates randomly coins, and if you contribute lots of cpu, your chances are higher
[13:26] <AlanBell> not sure that is accurate
[13:26] <dogmatic69> lol http://www.emohosting.com/
[13:26] <gord> seems accurate, generating bitcoins takes trial and error seems brute forcing or something, thus the more cpu, the higher chance you have of finding them
[13:27] <popey> some people have insanely huge mining rigs
[13:27] <popey> with lots of GPUs
[13:28] <gord> makes sense, but the whole thing is dependent on bitcoins actually being worth something at some point
[13:28] <popey> well, technically they are worth something
[13:28] <popey> because right now people are buying them
[13:28] <popey> money (real money) is changing hands to get and sell bitcoins
[13:28] <popey> so by defintion of 'if someone is willing to pay for it', it has value
[13:29] <hamitron> the only reason I can see for a spike in the value, is if people just want to buy them for the hell of it... or some service accepts them as payment
[13:29] <hamitron> otherwise it will just die?
[13:29] <gord> i think people want to buy them as an investment, to resell later
[13:30] <popey> its gone up .20c in the last two days
[13:30] <ali1234> dogmatic69: refreshingly honest, it must be satire...
[13:30] <popey> there will also be transaction fees in the future, and if you're mining then you could pick up some of that fee for processing the transaction
[13:30] <dwatkins> Isn't the whole point that the value will decrease as more bitcoins are created, though?
[13:30] <hamitron> it is kinda like selling/buying shares of a virtual company that has zero value :/
[13:30] <dogmatic69> :)
[13:30] <oimon> this is hurting my poor brain
[13:31]  * oimon tucks into easter egg instead
[13:32] <hamitron> easter eggs \o/
[13:33] <popey> \o/ eggs
[13:33] <gord> hrm, the client doesn't seem to work
[13:35] <gord> oh, a compiz bug
[13:36] <oimon> i'm not much of a visionary - i fail to see how bitcoins can take off
[13:37] <ali1234> they can't. next!
[13:37] <ali1234> that whole "if someone is willing to pay for it" thing worked out really well for subprime loans...
[13:38] <oimon> At the peak of tulip mania, in February 1637, some single tulip bulbs  sold for more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
[13:38] <gord> google are interested, that is how
[13:38] <oimon> madness of crowds :D
[13:40] <oimon> prices of yak face figure from star wars are still holding up well on ebay though
[13:40] <oimon> i should sell him at some point
[13:43] <directhex> so where can i change my Unity preferences? like always showing the "dock"?
[13:44] <DJones> directhex: I think its in the compiz settings unity plugin
[13:44] <czajkowski> gord: are you coming to the release party tomorrw
[13:44] <ali1234> directhex: type "launcher" into the dash search
[13:44] <ali1234> everything else you have to edit the registry (lol)
[13:45] <popey> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/27location_qa.html
[13:45] <popey> "The iPhone is not logging your location. Rather, it’s maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location"
[13:45] <ali1234> directhex: is "ghost" tooltips in banshee a known bug?
[13:46] <bigcalm> War driving on a mass scale?
[13:46] <popey> same as google :)
[13:46] <oimon> popey: that sums apple up !
[13:47] <oimon> i thought you were paraphrasing them, but alas no
[13:47]  * czajkowski stabs Daviey 
[13:47] <directhex> ali1234, i'm not aware of it
[13:47] <Daviey> czajkowski, o/
[13:47] <directhex> ali1234, which gconf key?
[13:48] <oimon> it's not logging location ...but logging locations to calculate location when requested :S
[13:48] <gord> czajkowski, too far for little me to go i'm afraid :)
[13:48] <shauno> I think 'your' is the keywork for lawyers there.  it doesn't log 'your' location.  just everything else it can see
[13:49] <oimon> what's kindle's excuse, since they aren't using GPS..
[13:49] <davmor2> czajkowski: I won't be Sue has to goto the Hospital tomorrow :(
[13:49] <oimon> shauno: true - if i leave my phone on my desk to go to lunch, it's only logging the phone's location, and not mine :)
[13:49] <gord> directhex, all the unity preferences are in compiz, so ccsm - or if you have that installed already. about:config in the dash search
[13:50] <czajkowski> gord: well no jammy dodgers for you so
[13:50] <czajkowski> davmor2: :( poor sue you've driven her to going there
[13:50] <ali1234> gord: what is "launcher & menus" then?
[13:50] <awilkins> bitcoin mining is lots of bruteforce hashing
[13:50] <awilkins> Runs much faster on a GPU
[13:51] <gord> ali1234, it changes one option, no idea why
[13:51] <awilkins> I think my GPU (nvidia 560) goes about 60 times faster than my CPU (Core 2 Quad)
[13:51] <davmor2> czajkowski: Yeah I'm driving her there She ain't about to walk after an op on her foot is she you muppet :P
[13:51] <awilkins> It makes Compiz suck rocks in terms of performance though
[13:52] <awilkins> Also makes my graphics card dustbuster run loudly :-)
[13:53] <gord> huh, theoretically a 560 could get the equivalent of 631ghz
[13:54] <popey> i have asked this before...
[13:54] <directhex> ok, unity makes a good case for using the scale plugin
[13:54] <popey> what card should I get?
[13:54] <directhex> popey, for doing what?
[13:54] <popey> desktop, more than my 7900 but not 400 quid
[13:54] <gord> if you want good ubuntu performance, nvidia. its what 99% of the unity team use
[13:54] <popey> leaning towards ATI, because I, narked with nvidia
[13:55] <popey> O_O
[13:55] <ali1234> don't get a 240 if you want to run nouveau
[13:55] <ali1234> don't get ati if you want it to work, ever
[13:55]  * popey boggles at nvidia performance
[13:55] <popey> hehe
[13:55] <ali1234> nvidia is rubbish but it's still the best
[13:55] <directhex> popey, geforce 570 is currently a good price/performance bet for gaming
[13:55] <gord> i personally have a 260 gtx - its around £110-150 - happy enough with it, does games fine at highest settings, full resolution for my monitor. does unity very well apart from when the nvidia driver sucks
[13:56] <ali1234> if you want good ubuntu performance, disable compositing
[13:57] <popey> hmm
[13:57] <davmor2> popey: You're never stunned into silence are you?
[13:57] <popey> frequently
[13:58] <directhex> the 260 is an aged equivalent to the 570, really
[13:58] <gord> it is, but it doesn't matter, it plays all games at the highest quality just fine
[13:58] <ali1234> someone should make a chart of nvidia cards in order of speed
[13:59] <ali1234> because i'm just totally confused by it
[13:59] <gord> lots of benchmark sites exist
[13:59] <directhex> ali1234, easy.
[13:59] <ali1234> but they always compare newest nvidia vs newest ati
[13:59] <gord> they *love* charts
[13:59] <directhex> ali1234, the most comprehensive info is on tom's hardware.
[13:59] <davmor2> ali1234: that's cause they make it up as they go along ;)
[13:59] <ali1234> i don't want comprehensive benchmarks
[13:59] <directhex> http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/graphics-cards,1.html
[13:59] <directhex> ali1234, i said info.
[14:00]  * hamitron would get a GTX 460 now
[14:00] <directhex> ali1234, top-to-bottom charts comparing 30-40 cards at a time. easy comparison,.
[14:00] <ali1234> no, they don;t have the chart i want
[14:00] <ali1234> they compare all cards from one year?
[14:00] <davmor2> popey: Intel all the way dude, just to be different :D
[14:00] <popey> lies
[14:01] <directhex> ali1234, yes. what chart do you want?
[14:01] <ali1234> i want a chart of every nvidia card ever made in order of slowest to fastest
[14:01] <directhex> davmor2, i hear the next-gen intel cards might handle *two* dozen polygons!
[14:01] <directhex> ali1234, you can't make that comparison. they don't all fit in the same PC, and changing anything other than the graphics card would pollute the test.
[14:01] <davmor2> directhex: at once! NO that's never possible ;)
[14:01] <ali1234> ok then
[14:02] <ali1234> i want a chart of all pci-e nvidia cards
[14:02]  * popey is so hardware dumb
[14:02] <ali1234> not just the ones made in 2010
[14:02] <andylockran> hey dudes
[14:02] <hamitron> 1 or 2? ;)
[14:02] <andylockran> and dudettes
[14:02] <popey> i dont even know what slot my 7900 plugs into :)
[14:02] <andylockran> how's tricks
[14:02] <popey> howdy howdy howdy
[14:02] <directhex> popey, PCIe.
[14:02] <popey> ok
[14:02] <andylockran> my 7900 is PCIe
[14:02] <hamitron> there are some AGP ones directhex
[14:02] <directhex> iirc it's the 6000 series where they started phasing out AGP
[14:02] <popey> quiet would be nice
[14:02] <popey> are any decent cards quiet?
[14:02] <directhex> hamitron, a couple. rare & expensive compared to PCIe versions though
[14:02] <popey> and will i need a new psu?
[14:03] <directhex> popey, how big's your PSU?
[14:03] <popey> and and and
[14:03] <popey> this big
[14:03] <popey> <-                  ->
[14:03] <popey> etc
[14:03] <popey> no idea
[14:03] <hamitron> yeh, but we all know popey spends money.... he is a Mac user ;)
[14:03] <andylockran> yeah, so many questions
[14:03] <gord> might need a new psu, quiet, erm... i don't know many that are built to be quiet
[14:03] <popey> o_O
[14:03] <gord> well, i have seen ones that are advertised as being quiet, but they aren't
[14:03] <andylockran> there's a fanless one my boss just got.. hence quiet
[14:03] <andylockran> can let you know the model.. uses it only for general purpose computing and coding - no games mind.
[14:03] <directhex> popey, card noise varies by temperature. temperature varies by airflow. airflow varies by case
[14:04] <directhex> popey, as a rule of thumb, the bigger the cooler, the quieter
[14:04] <popey> yeah, dont want to change my case
[14:04] <popey> might look at better/quieter fans perhaps
[14:04] <davmor2> popey: To quote everyone else Nvidia is the place to be baby!   Still the best gfx performance unfortunately.  Ati is getting there slowly that is the issue though slowly but it is improving
[14:04] <directhex> i use fglrx
[14:04] <hamitron> this would be my gfx of choice today http://www.ebuyer.com/product/247309
[14:04] <gord> nvidia cards you can set the fan speed on, i would assume you can with others. so if its too loud just underclock the gpu and slow the fan down
[14:05] <hamitron> ask me tomorrow and I may have changed my mind ;/
[14:05] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/249399 golly
[14:05] <directhex> hamitron, rather than a 550ti?
[14:05] <hamitron> GTX 460 has more cuda cores
[14:05] <hamitron> iirc
[14:05] <bigcalm> 1.28 GB?
[14:06] <bigcalm> Odd amount
[14:06] <seeker> P-p-p-Popey case p-p-Popey case
[14:06] <directhex> actually, yes, the 460 is better than the 550
[14:06] <hamitron> 550ti is nice too, but nearer a GTS 450
[14:06] <hamitron> my GTS 450 is find tbh
[14:06] <popey> that 460 looks nice
[14:06] <directhex> ali1234, the other thing is you can't run modern benchmarks on old cards - and old benchmarks are 101% irrelevant on new cards
[14:06] <hamitron> fine*
[14:06] <gord> popey, you could do a lot worse than that 460 for sure
[14:07] <gord> make sure your psu is okay with it :)
[14:07] <popey> relative difference between my 7900 and that?
[14:07] <ali1234> directhex: sounds suspiciously like blaming poor perforance on "you're running the wrong software"
[14:07] <popey> will I even notice it?
[14:07] <seeker> What will the card be used for?
[14:07] <popey> desktop and some gaming
[14:07] <gord> about 10x better
[14:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> Individual sized Battenburg Cake!
[14:07] <seeker> Linux?
[14:07] <popey> yes
[14:07] <popey> and windows
[14:07] <hamitron> popey: my GTS 450 vs my Geforce 7800gtx ........... 65 fps vs 11 fps in F1 2010 benchmark
[14:07] <popey> nice
[14:07] <directhex> ali1234, erm... that makes no sense at all
[14:07] <gord> minecraft runs at 120fps fullscreen on my rig here
[14:08] <popey> how do i tell what psu that needs?
[14:08] <popey> or what connector thing
[14:08] <popey> I think my psu is man enough, just dunno if connectors have changed
[14:08] <hamitron> it needs a lot of psu :/
[14:08] <popey> my 7900 has a square connector iirc
[14:08] <ali1234> directhex: i want the chart to use a benchmark that reflects the software i actually run. if it runs badly on a particular card that is no excuse
[14:08] <hamitron> 2 x 6 pin iirc
[14:08] <seeker> On windows I'd go for ati
[14:08] <seeker> Unless you are thinking of spending £700
[14:08] <popey> bah, new psu needed?
[14:08] <ali1234> directhex: i don't care about buying a card that is 100% optimized to run benchmarks only
[14:08] <popey> :(
[14:08] <hamitron> as in, 2 of the pin pin connectors
[14:08] <directhex> ali1234, modern hardware isn't designed to throw a small number of un-lit basic textured polygons at the screen. you think a modern i7 rig would get millions of frames per second on quake 2?
[14:09] <hamitron> 2 of the six pin connectors
[14:09] <hamitron> ffs
[14:09] <ali1234> directhex: what does that have to do with it?
[14:09] <gord> popey, in the specs it recommends a 450W psu
[14:09] <popey> it says it comes with accessoy
[14:09]  * hamitron smacks his own fingers for mis-typing
[14:09] <popey> accessory*
[14:09] <ali1234> all i care about is which card will be fastest for the software i use
[14:09] <ali1234> i do not care about how many millions of triangles it does in CoD4
[14:09] <directhex> ali1234, everything. pick a benchmark which adequately shows how well a Riva TNT compares to a GTX 590
[14:09] <popey> will that attach to a 4 pin molex?
[14:10] <popey> Riva :)
[14:10] <popey> Retro
[14:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] tumbling away - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney//blog/posts/2011/04/ikiwiki/ikiwiki/
[14:10] <ali1234> directhex: ok. i choose the benchmark "rendering launchpad in firefox"
[14:10] <directhex> popey, i'm not the one asking for a comparison of every nvidia card ever!
[14:10] <hamitron> GTX 460 is gonna need 4 x 4pin molex :/
[14:10] <popey> blimey
[14:10] <popey> well, my box only has one hard disk
[14:10] <seeker> popey: It'll technically need 2 moles
[14:10] <seeker> *moles
[14:10] <seeker> Ffs
[14:10] <seeker> Molex = 60w
[14:10] <seeker> Pci 6 pin = 75w
[14:10] <ali1234> also, i didn't know they made a pci-e riva tnt
[14:11] <directhex> know what? i really can't be bothered today.
[14:11] <popey> :(
[14:11] <seeker> Pci 8 pin = 150w
[14:11] <seeker> And it will likely only come with 1 adaptor
[14:11] <hamitron> the GTS 450 and 550ti will use less power
[14:12] <hamitron> it is partly why i went for a GTS 450
[14:12] <hamitron> :)
[14:12] <hamitron> also because I am cheap \o/
[14:14] <ali1234> actually what really puzzle me about that firefox bug is it *never* happens if you save the html of the page and then load it up
[14:14] <gord> i would like a new gpu, would be nice to get a 3d monitor and do some 3d gamging
[14:14] <hamitron> £82 for a GTS 450 if you can stomach Inno3D :/
[14:14] <gord> maybe patch compiz for 3d monitors
[14:14] <ali1234> to me that suggests the javascript is really hammering the dom or something
[14:15] <dwatkins> ouch
[14:15]  * dwatkins is called Dom
[14:15] <seeker> hamitron: All of the card manufacturers use the same
[14:15] <seeker> Card
[14:15] <hamitron> seeker: fans are different
[14:15] <seeker> Just with custom stickers on the cooler
[14:16] <seeker> In most cases they Use the reference cooler
[14:16] <hamitron> some are also cheap, and miss connectors off the rear
[14:17] <hamitron> do some still use different memories?
[14:19] <seeker> Like I said,
[14:19] <seeker> Most of them just put a different sticker on the reference cooler
[14:19] <seeker> The rest is the same
[14:19] <daubers> Most important question: Will it play Minecraft?
[14:19] <andylockran> sd:)
[14:20] <hamitron> daubers: who knows with the next patch ;) will anything?
[14:21] <hamitron> seeker: it is no good saying most are the same, not doing research, then getting a card with a connector you want missing
[14:21] <hamitron> I nearly bought a GTS450 and it only had 1 DVI and 1 VGA port on the back :/
[14:21] <popey> exactly daubers !
[14:22] <seeker> Yea, you have to actually *look* at what you are
[14:22] <seeker> Buying
[14:22] <seeker> Shocking!
[14:22] <seeker> But, if you are faced with a choice between some cards with exactly the same
[14:22] <hamitron> yeh, just annoying they don't always make it clear :/
[14:22] <seeker> Specs, they are likely using reference designs, so choose the cheapest
[14:23] <hamitron> certainly
[14:23] <hamitron> yes
[14:23] <hamitron> :)
[14:23] <hamitron> mine comes with the clocks overclocked as standard too
[14:23] <hamitron> just cuz I am lazy
[14:23] <hamitron> ;/
[14:23] <seeker> But, of course, reading is important
[14:23] <seeker> hamitron: You paid extra for what you can do with a free app in 2 mins?
[14:24] <hamitron> it cost 20p more
[14:24] <hamitron> and no hassle with voiding a warrenty
[14:24] <hamitron> and I got a nice OC sticker
[14:25] <hamitron> ;)
[14:25] <popey> seeker: i find interal computer bits confusing so glaze over
[14:25] <popey> i dont want to sit and read specs all day
[14:25] <gordonjcp> overclocking is silly
[14:25] <popey> hence asking "what card should I buy"
[14:27] <seeker> popey: What sort of gaming?
[14:27] <hamitron> some manufacturers provide you with a "better" chip if you get one ready overclocked too
[14:27] <gord> whats so silly about overclocking?
[14:27] <popey> seeker: some fps, bit of minecraft
[14:27] <hamitron> gord: reduces life? :/
[14:27] <gord> eh, not really
[14:27] <hamitron> extra heat
[14:27] <seeker> popey: Crysis 2? Half life 1?
[14:27] <gord> have good cooling :)
[14:27] <hamitron> can be unstable
[14:28] <hamitron> gord: waste of energy! think green!
[14:28] <gord> dont overclock so much that its unstable
[14:28] <gord> i think MEAN!
[14:28] <hamitron> you abuser
[14:28] <hamitron> ;/
[14:28] <ali1234> if you are only going to play games that run in linux (maybe in wine) then there is no point getting an expensive card
[14:28] <seeker> I7 920 @ 4 Ghz \o:
[14:29] <seeker> \o/
[14:29] <gord> i overclock my cpu by about 0.5 ghz. thats 2ghz extra. really helps
[14:29] <hamitron> i3 550 @ 3.2ghz \o/
[14:29] <hamitron> standard clock ;)
[14:30] <hamitron> oem cooler
[14:30] <gord> i water cool my i7. keeps it at 30 degrees :)
[14:30] <hamitron> popey: this is cheap http://www.ebuyer.com/product/257221
[14:30] <seeker> Noctua nh-14 :D
[14:31] <hamitron> but only 1 dvi port
[14:32] <seeker> popey: If you are going to be spending a lot of time in windows and aren't planning on cutting edge, it may be worth looking at an ati 57** or 6***
[14:32] <popey> i am not
[14:32] <popey> (spending a lot of time in windows)
[14:33] <ali1234> wait, what card do you have now again?
[14:33] <popey> 7900
[14:33] <hamitron> I'd have thought that is powerful enough?
[14:33] <ali1234> and what programs are you running that don't run fast enough and you want them to be faster?
[14:34] <popey> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation G71 [GeForce 7900 GT/GTO] (rev a1)
[14:35] <ali1234> frankly i doubt you'll see much difference even if you bought the most expensive nvidia there is
[14:35] <hamitron> the 7 series doesn't do cuda
[14:36] <hamitron> that was one things that annoyed me
[14:36] <hamitron> thing*
[14:37] <popey> i certainly notice the difference beteen the various nvidia cards in my house
[14:37] <popey> the one in the imac, and the one in the mbp as well as the one in the desktop
[14:37]  * bigcalm spies something on twitter and heads to iTunes
[14:37] <hamitron> popey: what game you struggling with?
[14:38] <popey> I'm not struggling with any game
[14:38] <hamitron> or app
[14:39] <popey> some games do feel a bit sluggish
[14:39] <gord> the 460 will be really good, its a good card
[14:40] <hamitron> and the 450 if you are cheap
[14:40] <hamitron> ;)
[14:40] <popey> added to wishlist
[14:40] <hamitron> or 550ti inbetween
[14:40] <hamitron> but I would go for the 460
[14:41] <hamitron> :)
[14:41] <hamitron> it does use a lot more power than the 450 though
[14:41] <gord> grr customer services lady forwarded me to technical support
[14:41] <hamitron> :/
[14:41] <gord> i just need to  unblock my card :( i set off fraud protection all the time
[14:41] <hamitron> gord: just as you thought you'd managed to chat her up? ;)
[14:42] <hamitron> :\
[14:44]  * awilkins likes his new 560Ti
[14:45] <awilkins> Seems to run Crysis 2 happily enough at "ludicrously detailed" at 1680x1050
[14:45] <awilkins> Not tried the original Crysis on it yet
[14:46] <awilkins> The GTS8800 was getting a bit long in the tooth
[14:46] <popey> i actually have two 7900's
[14:46] <popey> theory being to run them in parallel
[14:46] <popey> never have though
[14:46] <hamitron> imo, you want cuda
[14:46] <awilkins> I don't think it's worth it on modern cards unless you have a stooopid large monitor or need lots of numbercrunch
[14:47] <hamitron> I think my upgrade helped with flash, and new games 9in windows)
[14:47] <Azelphur> unless you have a stooopid large monitor <-- that's me :D
[14:47] <awilkins> I wonder if Amazon / other clouds have GPU rigs you can rent
[14:47] <hamitron> (in windows)
[14:47]  * awilkins has 2x 1680x1050
[14:47]  * Azelphur has 4x1920x1200 :p
[14:47] <seeker> hamitron: Why does he need cuda?
[14:47]  * hamitron has 1024x768 baby ;)
[14:48] <popey> I have 2x1680x1050
[14:48] <hamitron> seeker: you maybe doesn't
[14:48] <hamitron> he*
[14:48] <popey> tempted to reduce down to one big screen
[14:48] <popey> and offload one of those to mumbuntu
[14:48] <hamitron> but new flash uses it doesn't it?
[14:48] <Laney> yay for planet spam
[14:48] <awilkins> Aha, amazon DO have GPU rigs
[14:48] <popey> :)
[14:49] <popey> the only thing left to upgrade in my desktop is the CPU
[14:49] <popey> (I dont want to upgrade the mobo
[14:49] <popey> )
[14:49] <awilkins> At work I have  1440x900 + 1280x1024  :   2x 1280x0124
[14:49] <popey> Q6600 is the fastest it will take AIUI
[14:50] <awilkins> To get a CPU upgrade I'd need a new slot (no point upgrading the clock speed, it's all bus and L2 cache these days, baby
[14:50] <hamitron> popey: what cpu you got?
[14:50] <dwatkins> I used to have a quad 6600
[14:50] <popey> P5N32-E SLI ACPI BIOS Revision 1801
[14:50] <seeker> popey: I've got one of Thise
[14:50] <dwatkins> I gave it away because I was moving house and had a laptop
[14:50] <seeker> *those in my mythtv box
[14:50] <awilkins> popey, snapsies
[14:50] <popey> model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU          6700  @ 2.66GHz
[14:51] <awilkins> Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad  CPU   Q9550  @ 2.83GHz
[14:53]  * hamitron keeps quiet, for fear of the lols
[14:53] <Azelphur> Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 950  @ 3.07GHz
[14:53] <Azelphur> :p
[14:54] <hamitron> "some people have small winkies"
[14:54] <hamitron> ;/
[14:54] <gord> ... i hate you popey. why am i even shopping for a new gpu? i don't need one.
[14:54] <hamitron> haha gord
[14:54] <hamitron> it got me shopping too :/
[14:55] <Azelphur> lol
[14:55]  * awilkins is content with the size of his
[14:55]  * awilkins GPU
[14:55] <davmor2> gord: it's cause you're a mindless sheep following the flock ;)
[14:55] <hamitron> :))
[14:55] <Azelphur> 03:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation GF110 [Geforce GTX 570] (rev a1) || 06:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation G92 [GeForce 8800 GT] (rev a2)
[14:55]  * Azelphur runs
[14:56] <seeker> Someone has more money than sense :P
[14:56] <davmor2> gord: that or you heard new and shiny and got jealous :D
[14:56] <awilkins> Blimey, the only line in my `lspci` that doesn't have "nVidia" in it is the Firewire controller
[14:56] <gord> oooh new and shiny!
[14:56] <hamitron> Azelphur is the reason seti@home will run out of units soon
[14:56] <hamitron> ;/
[14:57] <Azelphur> haha
[14:57] <gord> seti announced they are kinda... shutting down, lack of funds
[14:57] <Azelphur> I actually do use my hw though, I'm using like 50% of that i7 right now and I'm not even doing anything in particular
[14:57] <hamitron> Azelphur: on what?
[14:57] <MattJ> They should use everyone's PCs to generate bitcoins instead
[14:57] <MattJ> Then they'd be rich
[14:57] <gord> virtually rich
[14:58] <MattJ> Yes, quite
[14:58] <Azelphur> hamitron: burnout paradise all max at 1920x1200 via wine, pidgin with every channel as a separate window (so like 70 windows) and a bunch of other stuff :p
[14:58] <hamitron> is burnout any good?
[14:58] <Azelphur> quite fun :)
[14:58] <hamitron> I keep looking and nearly buying it
[14:58] <awilkins> It could be the only currency you could bribe ET to phone us with
[14:58] <Azelphur> hamitron: I'd fully expect my PC to be able to fire up TF2 while I'm running burnout paradise so I don't have to close/exit my game in order to go in game and check something on my TF2 servers
[14:59] <Azelphur> It's not unusual for me to have 3 games running at the same time all via wine :P
[14:59] <hamitron> Azelphur: but why?
[14:59] <hamitron> you need an ultra expensive comp because you are too lazy to close a few windows?
[14:59] <hamitron> ;/
[14:59] <Azelphur> hamitron: for example, minecraft standing in my mob farm, world of warcraft waiting for the dungeon queue, burnout paradise to entertain me while I wait :p
[15:00] <awilkins> I'm pretty peed off with Crysis 2 because of the stupid login issues
[15:00] <awilkins> Haven't played it online yet
[15:00] <gord> EA?
[15:00] <awilkins> gord, yup, EA
[15:00] <hamitron> brb, 3pm = cup of tea and cakes
[15:00] <Azelphur> hamitron: also when someone needs an admin on my game servers, sometimes I have to stop what I'm doing and fire up another game, I don't want to have to go through the hassle of stopping my current game and exiting just to go check something in TF2 for example
[15:00] <Azelphur> so yea, my spec needs to be very overkill :p
[15:01] <awilkins> TBH I think it's Crytek GMBH's fault though
[15:04] <gord> i have sooo many problems with ea servers
[15:05] <awilkins> Oh holy monkey, logging in with my OOOOld Gamespy credentials just worked on their forums
[15:05] <awilkins> Maybe that will work for the game now....
[15:06] <davmor2> popey: I so wanted mark to say eggs'n'bacon
[15:07] <popey> :)
[15:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E05  The Nomad - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/04/27/s04e05-the-nomad/
[15:12] <s-fox> How does one get on the ubuntu uk planet?
[15:12] <popey> s-fox: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ubuntu-uk.org/planet
[15:12] <s-fox> Thanks popey :)
[15:14] <s-fox> Where does the face need to be stored?
[15:15] <s-fox> Oh never mind :D . I can see how some have done it using url
[15:17] <davmor2> popey: your description of a casual windows user.....Were you thinking Jono?
[15:26] <bigcalm> Clapton Common Music!
[15:31]  * oimon just realised that new uupc is out \o/
[15:35] <oimon> i haven't switched on my home desktop PC for yonks.
[15:36] <Azelphur> lol all this crazyness over apple/android "tracking" is funny :P
[15:36]  * oimon wonders if laptops will be mostly ARM tablet/laptop hybrids soon
[15:36] <Azelphur> I dunno about iphone, but all android does is send anonimized data to improve wifi geolocation, and it asks you upon first install if you are ok with the phone doing it
[15:37] <Azelphur> and the cache it keeps on the device is constantly trimmed
[15:37] <oimon> Azelphur: trimmed to 1yr for iphones
[15:37] <Azelphur> I know it's different with iphone but everyone seems to be lumping android in with the iphone evilness that admittedly use it for marketing purposes xD
[15:37] <Azelphur> yea, the iphone one is terrible
[15:38] <BigRedS> to several people the android one is terrible, too
[15:38] <oimon> i didn't opt in to the location tracking when i got my phone
[15:38] <oimon> therefore i should not be tracked anyway
[15:38] <oimon> although i'm tempted to root my phone to find out
[15:38] <Azelphur> BigRedS: how is it terrible if the phone asks you in no uncertain terms before doing it :S
[15:39] <oimon> tmobile track me anyway
[15:39] <oimon> so do oyster
[15:39] <oimon> and my wife does too
[15:39] <Azelphur> lol
[15:39] <BigRedS> Azelphur: I don't remember being asked, but *I* don't find it a bad thing
[15:39] <Azelphur> BigRedS: when you first install and go through the setup wizard for your google account and such, it presents you with a tickbox saying something along the lines of share my location with google
[15:40] <BigRedS> ah, perhaps
[15:40] <BigRedS> I wasn't paying much attention
[15:40] <BigRedS> I use latitude anyway, there's no getting out of Google knowing my whereabouts :)
[15:40] <Azelphur> haha :P
[15:40] <popey> ditto
[15:40] <Azelphur> everyones going crazy about it and it's an opt in service xD
[15:41] <Azelphur> I think I'mma take a screenshot of the button :p
[15:44] <oimon> i could save them the effort of tracking. i go to work, then go home, then go to work, then go home...or do I? since i turn my mobile off at night.
[15:45] <oimon> ...then I put it in a faraday cage and bury it in the garden until 8am the next day
[15:45] <Azelphur> lol
[15:45] <Azelphur> oimon: that's the thing there is no "tracking" XD
[15:46]  * hamitron trusts nothing and no-one
[15:46] <hamitron> ;/
[15:46] <Azelphur> oimon: Android uses WIFI hotspots to try and locate you if you don't have a GPS chip, it does this by street view cars driving around and detecting those hotspots and keeps it up to date with android phones
[15:47] <hamitron> so no hotspots = no tracking?
[15:47] <hamitron> :))
[15:47] <Azelphur> hamitron: yes, it only stores/pushes the location of hotspots so google can improve the location db
[15:47] <oimon> does it not log the mobile antenna stations too?
[15:47] <Azelphur> and it does so anonymously
[15:48] <Azelphur> oimon: no.
[15:48] <hamitron> can rogue apps access the location information?
[15:48] <Azelphur> not unless you give them root access, and even then they only have access to a small cache
[15:48] <oimon> how can i find out if my wifi hotspot is in the db?
[15:48] <Azelphur> oimon: dunno
[15:48] <oimon> i saw a link yesterday about it but i was busy, now i lost it
[15:49] <Azelphur> oimon: it probably is, as I say the main data gathering was done by street view cars
[15:49] <oimon> i thought they deleted that data
[15:49] <oimon> or was that the packet sniifing they did
[15:50] <Azelphur> I'm not sure on the specifics of that I think what they did was just capture everything with the goal of only getting ssid+location
[15:50] <hamitron> I should maybe turn on wifi for some google loving :/
[15:52] <oimon> http://samy.pl/androidmap/
[15:57] <dogmatic69> anyone know how to recursivly delete '.svn' folders?
[15:57] <bigcalm> Yes
[15:58] <bigcalm> find ./ -name ".svn" | xargs rm -Rf
[15:58] <dogmatic69> tx
[15:58] <bigcalm> Welcome
[15:59] <davmor2> popey: 哞
[16:06] <Azelphur> just checked with my phone, it does definitely ask you about location stuff clear as day :p
[16:06] <Azelphur> I'm trying to hack up my android emulator to have gapps so I can screenshot it
[16:11] <AlanBell> release party: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/889/detail/ for those not yet registered
[16:12] <andylockran> brilliant
[16:12] <andylockran> I might be able to pop into this
[16:14] <oimon> wow, release day tomorrow! natty doesn't feel ready yet
[16:15] <BigRedS> there's a lot less excitement about this one than there has been any previous release, as far as I can remember
[16:15] <BigRedS> I'd have completely forgotten about it had I not been using it as an excuse for pub tomorrow
[16:16] <oimon> i wouldn't feel confident recommending it to noobs like i did for lucid and maverick
[16:16] <oimon> (excluding mverick UNE of course)
[16:17] <dogmatic69> in a crontab, what is 0 5 * * 1
[16:17] <dogmatic69> 5am every day?
[16:18] <popey> no
[16:18] <dogmatic69> :/
[16:18] <dogmatic69> 0 5 * * *
[16:18] <popey> 5 am on the first of the month isnt it
[16:18] <popey> yes
[16:18] <BigRedS> yeah
[16:18] <dogmatic69> cool, thanks
[16:19] <bigcalm> How might I subtract 10% in PHP in simplist possible way?
[16:19] <oimon> no..
[16:19] <oimon> 0 5 * * 1 is 5am every monday
[16:19] <andylockran> bigcalm x = x * 0.9 ?
[16:19] <bigcalm> Aha, ta andylockran :)
[16:19] <hamitron> it wasn't a trick question?
[16:20] <hamitron> :)
[16:20] <oimon> format of cron: # m h  dom mon dow   command
[16:20] <popey> ah
[16:20] <BigRedS> Haha, I read that as every day in January...
[16:20] <oimon> i add that line to all my crontabs
[16:21] <dogmatic69> oimon: what is dom, mon, dow
[16:21] <dogmatic69> day of month
[16:21] <dwatkins> month
[16:21] <BigRedS> month
[16:21] <oimon> yep
[16:21] <dogmatic69> day of week?
[16:21] <dwatkins> day of week
[16:21] <shauno> ding!
[16:21] <oimon> day of month / month / day of week
[16:21] <dogmatic69> mon just month?
[16:21] <dogmatic69> ah
[16:21] <oimon> yip
[16:21] <oimon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cron
[16:21] <dogmatic69> cool, think i got it now
[16:21] <dwatkins> I thought all version of cron had that explaining line now
[16:21] <dwatkins> in the user's crontab
[16:22] <dogmatic69> i want to run ./command <param> in the cron, so is this right...
[16:22] <dogmatic69> uname -n | ./home/ubuntu/backup -
[16:22] <oimon> man -s5 crontab has it, but not man -s1 crontab
[16:22] <popey> or put it in a script
[16:22] <dogmatic69> popey: good point...
[16:23] <dogmatic69> ill just edit my backup script :D
[16:23] <bigcalm> It's best to keep logic out of crontab. Even if the shell script is 1 line long :)
[16:23] <dogmatic69> ye
[16:23] <shauno> I have so much fun with envs in cron, that I like to keep everything out of it :/
[16:24] <dogmatic69> and the backup needs sudo, so i just do sudo su && contab -e
[16:24] <dogmatic69> *cron
[16:24] <oimon> oooh:     Months or days of the week can be specified by name.
[16:25] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: you can put your crontab commands into a file and then install it with "crontab my_cron_file.txt"
[16:25] <BigRedS> that strikes me as cheating
[16:25] <bigcalm> Save messing about with crontab -e
[16:25] <dogmatic69> seems the same to me?
[16:25] <dogmatic69> both are nano
[16:26] <oimon> nano ugh
[16:26] <dogmatic69> :D
[16:26] <bigcalm> Sure. Just you can put a text file into a repo :)
[16:26] <dogmatic69> vim is to hard core :P
[16:26] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: i see
[16:26] <oimon> i hate it when it does that nano thing when you are expecting vi(m)
[16:26] <BigRedS> haha, yeah
[16:26] <dogmatic69> will look at that.
[16:26] <BigRedS> spend about five minutes working out how to save and exit...
[16:27] <oimon> ZZ^X^Q^C^W
[16:27] <dogmatic69> ctrl + o, ctrl + x
[16:27] <bigcalm> One of my servers has jed as the defult editor for svn and cron. That one trips me up every time
[16:27] <dogmatic69> i cant figure out how to do anything in vim
[16:27] <bigcalm> esc:wq!
[16:27] <oimon> vim is good for you
[16:27] <oimon> ZZ is all
[16:28] <oimon> you need a mug with vim commands
[16:28] <oimon> i should buy those for all new staff
[16:28] <bigcalm> I wonder if Absolute80s.com will play some Weird Al
[16:28] <davmor2> bigcalm: ask them
[16:29] <andylockran> yeah
[16:29] <bigcalm> Currently playing MJ's Beat It
[16:30] <bigcalm> Every time I hear it, I expect Weird Al's Eat it
[16:30] <davmor2> bigcalm: I'd be listening but apparently my internet woes won't end till June 8th
[16:31] <dogmatic69> if i have a backup script that is the same across 10 servers, what is the best way to store / run it?
[16:32] <dogmatic69> i was thinking store and run it from a backup server some how
[16:33] <shauno> curl url | sh  :)
[16:33] <dogmatic69> ?
[16:33] <dogmatic69> dl it from some place and run it
[16:33] <shauno> yeah.  if you want to keep it centralised, rather than have 10 local copies, you can just pipe it from http on-demand
[16:34] <dogmatic69> nice
[16:34] <dogmatic69> and that is secure?
[16:34] <shauno> only as secure as http is :)
[16:34] <dogmatic69> nobody gonna intercept it and stick a sudo rm -rf /*
[16:35] <shauno> eg, if you have ssl in place, curl will die on a bad cert
[16:35] <Oli``> wget -qO- url | sh
[16:35] <Oli``> ^ if you don't want to install curl
[16:35] <shauno> but if that's a real consideration (eg, it's a public network, etc), it's probably not the best way to do it.  but it is an option
[16:36] <dogmatic69> ha. could stick it in a gist, then its ssh and under sc
[16:36] <shauno> I'm sure scp could do the same (scp remote:/path/ - | sh)
[16:37] <dogmatic69> ye, the nodes dont have access to anything
[16:37] <dogmatic69> you can only access them
[16:37] <shauno> oh, - doesn't work for scp :(
[16:39] <shauno> should be push tho.  ssh host </path/to/script
[16:40] <shauno> so the nodes only need to accept inbound, rather than connecting back
[16:47] <dogmatic69> ye
[16:47] <dogmatic69> what would that do?
[16:47] <BigRedS>  I have an SVN repo. anyone know of a way of checking I have permissions to commit, without actually committing anything?
[16:48] <dogmatic69> shauno: would that be run on the main server with the code on and it will be executed on the node
[16:48] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: try push with no changes
[16:49] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: ah, so just checkout then push?
[16:49] <dogmatic69> might check permissions before checking the changes
[17:03] <shauno> dogmatic69: the last one would, yeah.  ssh remotenote <script
[17:03] <dogmatic69> shauno: ill try that out quick
[17:04] <shauno> it's push vs pull, but requires nothing but key-based ssh on the nodes
[17:05] <popey> http://oggcamp11.eventbrite.com/
[17:05] <popey> ahem
[17:08] <BigRedS> I thought you'd run out of spaces already?
[17:08] <BigRedS> aha!
[17:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu California Natty Release Party - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/27/ubuntu-california-natty-release-party/
[17:13] <dogmatic69> shauno: kinda got it working, there is a few issues though
[17:13] <dogmatic69> script does not run properly, and it needs a pw now for the ssh
[17:14] <dogmatic69> thanks for the help, will fight it some more tomorrow
[17:17] <shauno> they're just thoughts.  there's 1001 ways to skin that one :)
[17:32] <Karti> Hi all, quick question - If I have the 11.04 daily build from 7 days ago. If I just update can I just assume that it will the latest version once its released tomorrow?
[17:37] <BigRedS> Karti: I think you need to do a do-release-upgrade
[17:37] <BigRedS> 'cause you're going from RC to release
[17:38] <Karti> BigRedS, I have done the upgrades before and they were time consuming. Do you think it would be just as easy reinstalling? (not an issue)
[17:39] <BigRedS> no, it's always easier than reinstalling
[17:39] <BigRedS> 'cause you just tell it to go and it goes and does it
[17:39] <BigRedS> it's time consuming for the computer, but shouldn't take any more time for you than to kick it off
[17:39] <BigRedS> and perhaps say yes or no to a config file overwriting
[17:40] <Karti> BigRedS, Ok, the classic go and have a cup of tea in the meantime :)
[17:40] <BigRedS> yeah :)
[17:41] <BigRedS> or minimise it and carry on working, but don't suggest that to management
[17:41] <BigRedS> :)
[17:41] <BigRedS> (actually, can you minimise in unity?)
[17:41] <Karti> lol... if only they would let me. - Thanks
[17:42] <davmor2> BigRedS: Yes you can.
[17:42] <BigRedS> ah, cool. I remember someone complaining about something to do with window minimising in unity
[17:46] <Psychobudgie> it was probably to do with reopening a minimised window
[17:46] <Psychobudgie> if you have more than one window open of an individual application you have to open all of them to select 1
[17:47] <Psychobudgie> which is annoying
[17:47] <Psychobudgie> almost as annoying as unity
[17:47] <Psychobudgie> ;)
[17:48] <BigRedS> haha
[17:49] <Karti> I must admit that I actually like it. My biggest loss would have been wobily windows <How shallow am I :)>
[17:50] <BigRedS> Hah. I've only just got into compiz
[17:50] <Psychobudgie> gnome 3 is way better
[17:50] <BigRedS> yeah, I keep being told to try gnome 3
[17:50] <Psychobudgie> using it here from the ppa
[17:51] <BigRedS> yeah, I don't like the apparent irreversibility of its install
[17:51] <BigRedS> when I get home I think I'll inflict it upon my desktop
[17:51] <Psychobudgie> unfortunately that is down to unity
[17:51] <BigRedS> right now, all I have is my laptop and I sort of need it to work
[17:51] <BigRedS> Psychobudgie: ah, the latest ubuntu I'm running on any real hardware is 10.10
[17:52] <Psychobudgie> I switched to gnome 3 a couple of weeks ago and haven't looked back to be honest
[17:53] <Psychobudgie> tried unity again within a vm a couple of days ago and it just feels amateurish to be honest
[17:53] <BigRedS> it reminds me of gnome back in the day
[17:53] <BigRedS> when that was chock full of niggles
[17:54] <Psychobudgie> saying that though, it runs on my daughters netbook and works pretty well but that's a netbook and not a desktop where it just feels wrong imo
[17:55] <BigRedS> my first and, as yet only, go on Gnome3 was similar, though
[17:55] <shauno> got some pretty bizarre questions in a job interview today :/
[17:55] <BigRedS> I wondered why i twas on such a large screen
[17:55] <BigRedS> shauno: where were you interviewing?
[17:55] <shauno> current employer, different role
[17:56] <shauno> trying to get them to put the word 'senior' infront of my title so I can haz moar monies
[17:56] <Psychobudgie> sounds like my old developer job in the nhs
[17:57] <shauno> odd, odd Qs tho.  the worst was being asked the average voltage at a substation.  at which point I decided the german chap just didn't like me
[17:57] <Psychobudgie> created a role specifically for me by adding senior to the front of it on a higher salary band then interviewed me for the role they specifically made for me
[17:58] <Psychobudgie> couldn't make it up
[17:58] <Psychobudgie> or so I thought
[17:58] <Karti> No guess.....given away to someone else?
[17:59] <BigRedS> shauno: what did you answer?
[18:00] <shauno> I guess about 15k
[18:00] <shauno> pretty sure I got the 'k' bit right :)
[18:00] <shauno> 15 was a guess, and I told them that :/
[18:03] <BigRedS> I wondered if they were after the average of the in and the out...
[18:03] <BigRedS> not sure why I'm putting more thought into your interview questions than my work, though :)
[18:09] <shauno> 3:)
[18:10] <shauno> I'm really tempted to email the interviewer and ask if he asks everyone that, but not sure if that's kosher
[18:10] <shauno> just that one Q is playing on my mind as a why on earth
[18:12] <gordonjcp> shauno: seems a strange question
[18:12] <gordonjcp> depends on the substation, surely
[18:13] <kaushal> Hi
[18:14] <BigRedS> maybe it's another of those 'clever' "what would he do when presented with X" sorts of questions?
[18:14] <kaushal> what would be the IST time once 11.04 is released ?
[18:14] <BigRedS> IST time?
[18:14] <BigRedS> ahhh
[18:14] <BigRedS> India timezone
[18:14] <kaushal> yes
[18:14] <BigRedS> no idea, it's not a prearranged hour
[18:15] <kaushal> oh i see
[18:15] <BigRedS> subscribe to ubuntu-announce, and they'll email you when it's out
[18:15] <kaushal> great
[18:15] <BigRedS> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-announce
[18:15] <BigRedS> usually it's prior to pub-time GMT :)
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> hey, cool. iplayer live radio works outside the UK :)
[18:57] <shauno> for most things, yeah :)  five can be a bit grumpy about some things tho
[19:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] On platforms - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/135944.html
[20:15] <Azelphur> Yay, I stumbled upon some sanity re the zomg smartphones are stalking me thing, http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u127998/chartughhhh.jpg
[20:15] <Azelphur> good chart is good :p
[20:22] <BigRedS> Azelphur: haha
[20:22] <BigRedS> handy, though
[20:23] <Azelphur> indeed
[20:29] <Mez> Aw man - completely ballsed that up ..
[20:29] <Mez> Couldnt remember how many octets in a mac address... couldnt remember what kill does by default ... explained setuid rather than sticky..
[20:30] <Mez> and said syn ack synack
[20:41] <DJones> Natty must be nearly fully baked, only 30Mb of updates in the last 48 hours
[20:42] <gordonjcp> I should boot into Ubuntu and pull the updates
[20:43] <DJones> gordonjcp: That was my thought, download updates now before the servers go ballistic tomorrow
[20:43] <zleap> so what sort of time should i try and download tomorrow ?
[20:43] <Azelphur> Anyone know how I add the C/C++ editor to eclipse?
[20:43] <gordonjcp> DJones: excellent point
[20:44] <Azelphur> It doesn't seem to be in my list of editors :(
[20:44] <BigRedS> zleap: friday :)
[20:44] <zleap> ok
[20:45] <DJones> zleap: Could be anytime tomorrow when its officially released, as soon as it is, the servers will be battered.  I'd suggest waiting till Friday as well
[20:45] <zleap> ok
[20:46] <zleap> sounds a good plan, i can spend tomorrow printing cd labels
[20:46] <DJones> Or update now anticipating minimal changes between now & final release :)
[20:47] <zleap> i am sticking with 10.04 for now, but will download so I have a usb stick and a few cd's they come in useful
[20:47] <zleap> my update netbook with it though
[20:47] <zleap> my = may
[20:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have a nightly cron job that zsyncs to the daily isos.
[20:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Although I am not planning to be upgrading to Natty anytime soon.
[21:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] Too Many Cephalopods - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2010/09/too-many-cephalopods/
[21:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] Break - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2010/12/break/
[21:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] tumbling away - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2011/04/ikiwiki/
[21:14] <AlanBell> I wonder if Natty will run on an old Dell desktop circa 2002
[21:14] <DJones> It wouldn't run on an old dell laptop circa 2001
[21:15] <DJones> But that was limited by memory & graphics memory
[21:15] <AlanBell> I don't think the intel graphics will do 3d any more (It did do compiz in hardy)
[21:16] <AlanBell> probably will perform better than popey's nvidia
[21:16] <DJones> This one would do compiz up to Karmic, but with only 32mb of graphics memory, you could hear it whirring trying to update the screen (Geforce 2go)
[21:23] <Laney> ffs
[21:23] <Laney> spamming planet twice in one day?!
[21:23] <mgdm> careless
[21:24] <Laney> rather
[21:24] <Laney> apologies all
[21:25] <duvelhedz> will the new ubuntu not default to gnome2 instead of unity if you are trying to install on a relic
[21:25] <AlanBell> yes
[21:25] <duvelhedz> should have no worries on an x41 so
[21:26] <duvelhedz> should be down to the party tomorrow Alan, dragging down a mate from work
[21:27] <AlanBell> great
[21:29] <duvelhedz> I'm not a huge fan of unity though, I think its going to annoy a few heads alright, especially power users
[21:33]  * bigcalm sighs
[21:34] <bigcalm> My fiancee's side of the family are no to AV while my side of the family are yes to AV. Also, her side are looking forward to the royal wedding while my side couldn't give a flying flip
[21:35] <Azelphur> bigcalm: haha
[21:35] <bigcalm> Thankfully we are spenind Friday and the weekend with my parents
[21:35] <Azelphur> bigcalm: I'm a good medium on the royal wedding, while I couldn't give a flying flip, my street is having a street party, food \o/
[21:35] <Azelphur> and I do give a flying flip about party food, party food is awesome
[21:35] <bigcalm> :D
[21:36] <Azelphur> plus the lady across the road who's a professional cook is gonna be doing some stuff :D
[21:36] <duvelhedz> bigcalm, i would be in the no camp as Ireland is a perfect example of how bad it can be
[21:36] <Azelphur> and I bet the nice old lady who always makes me cake will make more cake, cake is good.
[21:36] <Azelphur> xD
[21:36] <Azelphur> bigcalm: also I think a large amount of the no to AV is down to misunderstanding
[21:37] <Azelphur> it's kinda complicated to understand, and it doesn't help when you get leaflets through the door full of lies...I mean statistics :p
[21:38] <AlanBell> this thing has lucid on it at the moment, think the CD drive is busted though
[21:38] <AlanBell> lets see if it will do a USB boot
[21:38] <duvelhedz> AV is what we have in ireland, it works on 1st, 2nd preferences and so on, I do think it makes it harder to boot out bad polititians
[21:40] <Azelphur> duvelhedz: I would have thought the opposite, doesn't it stop strategic voting which makes it easier to boot out bad politians?
[21:42] <duvelhedz> You would think so, i think its just that most people dont think much beyone the 1st preference so there is a good chance that incumbants scrape their way in, the benefit i see of it though is that right wing fascists will find it harder
[21:46] <duvelhedz> hi airurando
[21:47] <airurando> hey duvelhedz
[21:47] <duvelhedz> are you having a release party in Dublin?
[21:47] <airurando> yes indeed
[21:48] <duvelhedz> good stuff, I'm going to be at the one here in London so sorry I cant make it
[21:49] <airurando> that should be a blast.
[21:49] <airurando> enjoy
[21:49] <duvelhedz> Where are you having the irish one at?
[21:49] <airurando> http://www.ubuntu-ie.org/node/144
[21:50] <airurando> Jimmy Chungs (as is becoming the norm) for grub
[21:50] <airurando> Trinity Capital for socialising afterwards
[21:50] <duvelhedz> Pilgrimage at this point I would have thought
[21:51] <duvelhedz> I hope you have a good turnout
[21:51] <airurando> me to
[21:51] <airurando> :)
[21:57]  * popey hugs piepopey 
[21:58]  * bigcalm spies on the spy
[21:58] <bigcalm> Aww
[22:00] <AlanBell> ok, so the CD drive doesn't work and the one I ripped out of another relic doesn't fit
[22:00] <bigcalm> popey: irssi plugin or something else?
[22:00] <AlanBell> won't boot from USB
[22:00] <popey> java thing
[22:00] <bigcalm> Ah, the original one then
[22:00] <popey> ya
[22:00] <AlanBell> PXE might work
[22:00] <duvelhedz> AlanBell, what are you trying to install on?
[22:01] <bigcalm> AlanBell: duct tape
[22:01] <AlanBell> duvelhedz: a P4 Dell desktop from 2002
[22:01] <X3N> Anyone recommend a good enclosure for sata hdd?
[22:02] <duvelhedz> If the CD drive isnt completely banjaxed, you could try PLOP boot manager on a CD, Its only a couple of meg so may work to chainload the USB and boot from it
[22:03] <duvelhedz> basically, you boot from it so you can boot from usb devices
[22:03] <AlanBell> interesting, that might work
[22:06] <duvelhedz> Alan, its worth a shot, If it doesnt work for you, I can can give you a dell ide cd drive that i happen to be leaning my arm on at the moment, minus the green things. Ill bring it down tomorrow if you like
[22:07] <alien2601> HI Guys, Anyone know of any good linux program that can compare files and folders something like "Beyond Compare" for win systems?
[22:11] <duvelhedz> alien2601, i'm not sure of any GUI software out there to do it, I may be wrong, I am certain there is some kind of compare command you could use if you get stuck
[22:13] <bigcalm> 3 =+ 4
[22:13] <bigcalm> 3 += 4
[22:13] <bigcalm> I cannie remember
[22:13] <bigcalm> Oops
[22:13] <bigcalm> $i =+ 4
[22:14] <bigcalm> $i += 4
[22:15] <alien2601> duvelhedz: hmm had a quick google hunt and found some options but they don't look great - http://meld.sourceforge.net/
[22:15] <AlanBell> duvelhedz: thanks for the offer, might take you up on that one
[22:15] <bigcalm> I find running winmerge in wine works for me
[22:16] <duvelhedz> Ok, just bring your bag with you tomorrow then and ill sort you out
[22:25]  * BigRedS adds 'banjaxed' to his list of words to make more use of
[22:42] <hewbass> alien2601: meld is good. I use it a lot. It is also in the ubuntu repositories.
[22:49] <alien2601> Thanks for the suggestions .. will check both of them out :)
[22:58] <shauno> hm, that's odd.  mrtg ran happily for 20 hours, and now coughs up errors on every poll :/
[23:18] <hamitron> shauno: how did the interview go?
[23:18] <shauno> I'm really not sure yet
[23:19] <hamitron> ok :/
[23:19] <shauno> the only good news is that the person I thought was a shoe-in for the position, apparently isn't allowed to apply because they haven't been in their current position long enough
[23:19] <shauno> so \o/ for stomping out the competition ;)
[23:19] <hamitron> :D
[23:20] <VlRUS> Hello
[23:20] <VlRUS> people
[23:20] <VlRUS> :D
[23:20] <hamitron> and aliens ;/
[23:21] <VlRUS> ahahahah
[23:21] <VlRUS> One question
[23:21] <VlRUS> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ this ver of natty is the same that final ver?
[23:21] <hamitron> the final version is out?
[23:22] <VlRUS> i don't know
[23:22] <VlRUS> i'm asking us
[23:22] <VlRUS> if this daily ver is like the final ver
[23:22] <shauno> maybe, maybe not.  sometimes it is, but there's no promises it won't see any polish before the next build
[23:22] <hamitron> my guessing is there may be a few changes
[23:23] <VlRUS> I see isee
[23:23] <hamitron> (11:22:11 PM) hamitron: my guessing is there may be a few changes
[23:23] <hamitron> no harm in waiting is there? ;)
[23:23] <shauno> there's been releases where there's no change from the previous daily or two; and there's been releases where they've been frantically working up until the last minute.
[23:24] <shauno> we don't know which it is until someone from the release team swoops down and blesses it
[23:25] <hamitron> have the bugs been ironed out?
[23:25] <BigRedS> for particular definitions of 'ironed out', yeah :)
[23:25] <hamitron> will do ;)
[23:26] <Azelphur> Anyone know of a easy/simple php library I can use to do country level geolocation?
[23:27] <VlRUS> :p
[23:27] <shauno> I think most people just use maxmind
[23:27] <Azelphur> fun
[23:30] <hamitron> hmmmm
[23:30] <hamitron> early bed, or crack open an easter egg and stay up late?
[23:30] <hamitron> ;/
[23:37] <hamitron> choc it is
[23:37] <hamitron> \o/
[23:38] <Azelphur> \o/
[23:45] <shauno> hm.  I was gonna say there's a geoip lib in natty, but it looks like it just uses maxmind too.  so you're probably better off using maxmind's php api rather than trying to wrap libgeoip yourself