[00:00] c&w isn't cable & wireless is it? I thought they were gone [00:00] gone? [00:00] doesn't thus use it? [00:00] they still exist as a wholesale providor [00:01] and yes thus uses it [00:01] it's ntl that doesn't exist any more [00:01] they bought a large part of C&W but not all ofit [00:03] ahok [00:03] I want Demon Business 2+ [00:03] :) [00:03] hamitron: since you use demon you have static IP, so you can use 6to4 [00:03] didn't realise it'd gone in chunks. just knew in newcastle it went from c&w to telewest to ntl to virgin [00:04] ali1234: I can [00:04] but I don't like half-bridge [00:04] so don't use it [00:04] throw out router number 2 [00:04] I just have visions of it going wrong [00:04] just use number 1 [00:05] number 1 crashes with too much load, can't do NAT [00:05] ;) [00:05] ok so in reality this has nothing to do with ipv6 [00:05] it does [00:05] as well as [00:05] the whole picture is.... want this mess sorted out [00:06] haha [00:06] no. because the half-bridge is not affecting your ability to use ipv6 at all [00:06] 6to4 is a temp solution init? [00:06] yes, so is tunneling [00:06] yeh [00:07] they will both work with your current setup [00:07] I want a router with native IPv6 to be ready to receive IP from the ISP [00:07] yep [00:07] so....... buy one [00:07] if I have to buy another router, gonna wait longer [00:07] see what services are in my local area [00:07] probably a good idea [00:08] only got ADSL Max atm [00:08] but my main worry is I am not always at home [00:09] and I have to rely on people who stupid, even by newbs standards [00:10] and females like to clean too much, knock cables :/ [00:10] maybe best idea is to just make a box, put everything in it and label it "get off" [00:12] ali1234: I desperately want C&W in my exchange, so i can renew the ISP contract, and know what I'll be using for the next 2 years [00:12] also will cost less per month [00:12] other options are sky and talktalk ;/ [00:14] anyways [00:14] coffee time \o/ [00:14] brb [00:22] bk [00:36] just figured out my router does snmp, so I've pointed mrtg at it. see what that comes up with [00:38] morning y'all [00:38] evening === fred is now known as Guest81412 [01:11] this is when my sleep pattern comes back to bite me. job interview tomorrow, and not remotely tired :/ [01:12] :\ [01:12] at least if you get it.... should sort out the problem? :) [01:15] unlikely. it doesn't stop me when I work at 6am either :) [01:15] haha [01:15] no self control.... [01:15] says me, still going strong :/ [01:16] it'll mean no more shift work tho :) no more bank holidays, working xmas, etc [01:22] ffs, 94Kb/s is just too slow for some downloads :/ [01:22] I should just move house [03:39] Hi [03:39] I have a question about the minimal and alternate install CDs. [03:40] When I to install a command line version of Ubuntu for either of them, my network/ethernet card is not detected (JMicron jmc250) [03:40] And the installation won't proceed because of this. [03:41] I have tried reading through numerous forum threads on ubuntuforums.. [03:41] However, I haven't come across a solution that works [03:42] There is even a launchpad bug that keeps being turned down as invalid: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/400297?comments=all [03:42] Ubuntu bug 400297 in linux (Ubuntu) "patch for JMicron jmc250 and jmc260 ethernet card" [Undecided,New] [03:44] Sorry got disconnected. [03:44] Yes! That is the bug (our chats crossed) :) [03:45] I actually went to the JMicron site and downloaded the ethernet driver for this card [03:45] The question is can I somehow integrate this driver into either the minimal iso or the alternate cd? [03:45] Sort of a slipstream... [03:48] Ubuntu bug 400297 doesn't give me any workable solution for Maverick Meerkat (10.10) [03:48] Ubuntu bug 400297 in linux (Ubuntu) "patch for JMicron jmc250 and jmc260 ethernet card" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400297 [03:48] yikes [03:48] so that was a robot [03:49] hahah [03:49] I thought someone actually was reading what I was on about [03:49] Guess no [03:49] t [07:50] morning all [07:55] morning [07:57] Meauning [08:07] o/ [08:25] o/ [08:40] well the mac mini turned up [08:41] i dunno why they have to make these things so hard to use [08:41] how so? [08:41] how do i boot it from CD? [08:41] from memory, press and hold down c on boot [08:42] yes that's really obvious [08:42] :) [08:42] i have to reset the admin password [08:44] i hope forcing a password reset from the install cd doesn't do anything silly like wipe the keys for an encrypted volume [08:44] only if you're using filevault :) [08:45] i dunno what the person is using [08:45] well, they should have backed up their stuff before they sent it to me [08:45] you can start a shell from the same menu you do the password change from [08:45] why would i want to do that? [08:45] if you see files in /User/them/ that look normal (documents, music, etc), they're not using filevault [08:48] it's giving me a warning about unlocking the keyring [08:48] yeah. changing the password from the CD won't unlock that either [08:49] well that's ok i only need to install the app store and create a user account for myself [08:49] so you won't have stored passwords for their email, wireless networks, etc [08:50] ok i am confused [08:50] apple website says to get the app store i just run software update [08:50] but it's not on the list of updates to be installed [08:51] hello all [08:51] it's part of one of the OS updates. I believe 10.6.6 [08:51] if you bring the OS up to current, it'll just appear. it's not done piecemeal [08:53] damn the updates are like 2GB [08:53] then i have to download 4GB xocde [08:53] that will put me over my monthly usage limit [08:53] this sucks [08:53] i hate macs [08:58] yeah. they should just make their updates out of fairy dust like other OSes, rather than downloading data. that's so clunky [09:01] Did berlios.de die? [09:02] ali1234: You can download the updates from somewhere else [09:02] ali1234: http://support.apple.com/kb/dl1349 [09:04] Richard_P === CaveMan is now known as Richard_P [09:06] * Mez signs [09:06] daubers: it's still 1GB [09:06] * Mez sighs too [09:07] Anyone wanna rewrite my CV for me ? (It's something I'm going to have to do again) [09:07] I think he means physically somewhere else. eg, grab them at work if bandwidth is an issue [09:08] still, retail to current is 1.2Gb. you shouldn't have to do that much unless it's been a 18 months since anyone updated the machine [09:11] i'm at work [09:11] i'm also at home [09:11] Mornin all [09:11] anyway the updates are monolithic [09:12] any version not current -> current = 1GB download [09:12] Mez: Enforced job change? [09:16] ali1234: What version are you running now? [09:16] 10.6.3 [09:17] since it's owned by a normal person it has probably not been updated since it was bought [09:23] DJones: Nah - Google Recruiter :) [09:24] (they made me update my CV last time to be very specific - so I'm going to make sure I get it right to to them first time round this time :) [09:25] I know it's not gonna stop you whining, but they're monolithic for a reason. you can download them granular, but it sucks. 10.6.3->.4 (720Mb) -> .5 (600Mb) ->.6 (150Mb) -> .7 (475Mb) .. [09:27] Mez: Agencies always make me laugh when they want specific things on the cv you send them, then they send something completely different to potential employers anyway [09:28] oof [09:28] 4000 job reductions being negotiated at Nokia Finland :-( [09:29] oh no, only 1400 in Finland... [09:29] only... :-( [09:29] :( [09:30] DJones: no - this is google - they basically previously asked me to cut out the cruft (the jobs that weren't related to IT) and add in all my IT related volunteering stuff (DD, etc etc) [09:31] "we read your CV and we'd like to hire you, but first, please rewrite your CV" [09:32] google recruiters are fun, tried recruiting me too [09:32] dont know why, I still cant programme [09:32] ali1234: actually, it was more so that when they passed it on to other people - they have more concise info. [09:32] Myrtti: you don't need to program :) [09:32] Myrtti: How far did you get along the recruitment process (and this is the second time round for me) [09:33] well thats what the email said, looking for php python java c++ [09:33] Good 1st quarter results for ARM today: "Shipments of ARM-processor-based chips increased 33pc on the same period last year" [09:34] interestingly they mention AMD: "AMD is a company that is very capable of deploying ARM technology" [09:34] I didnt even bother to reply the email, Ive got too much other stuff going on [09:34] Myrtti: lol - fair enough :) From what I remember though - last time I applied they were looking for that - and the recruiters initial call determined that I'd be better applying for the SRE team) [09:35] *YAWN* [09:36] i must say, i've never really considered working at google [09:36] * Mez shoves a sock in MooDoo's mouth [09:37] oimon: use gmail for long enough and you'll get the first offer [09:37] sounds like it takes over your life a bit too much [09:37] they'll want you to move to some third world country of course [09:37] the UK? [09:37] i'm already here [09:38] oimon: takes over your life??? Hmm... maybe.. but if you're in a job that you'd do as a hobby.... [09:38] What updates /etc/motd? [09:38] i don't fly anymore, so any job i do can't involve international travel [09:40] thanks Mez what's that for? [09:40] MooDoo: for yawning [09:40] bigcalm: a reboot [09:40] Mez: ah lol sorry :) [09:40] bigcalm: or updatemotd [09:40] Morning all! [09:40] Hi popey! [09:40] morning popey [09:40] what os x says more updates? i just updated! [09:40] My motd has been squiffy for a while now: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/599676/ [09:41] * bigcalm replaces it with some ascii art [09:41] haha, i see lots of people got the SRE google recruit spam then :) [09:41] ? [09:42] bigcalm: here's my motd http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/599677/ [09:42] \o/ [09:42] bigcalm: people here like Mez and Myrtti [09:42] popey: I see [09:42] you need a name beginning with M [09:43] popey: what's your opinion on the e-machines £99 vs the aspire revo? [09:43] my old friend mungojerry probably has one [09:43] * oimon misses mungojerry [09:43] popey: I presume you had it too ? [09:43] The e-machine has N while the Revo only has g [09:45] oimon: offer looks to have finished [09:45] Mez: yeah, i get mail from them now and then [09:45] popey: never applied? [09:46] nope [09:46] wow ..i checked at 9 o clock [09:46] 249 in stock [09:46] so only 3 were purchased in that time [09:48] the windows version is £100 more [09:48] Grr, why does the IT support turn up at work when its not to install my new computer, what other reason can be more important [09:48] £99 is special offer [09:48] it normally costs £200 [09:48] ali1234: it's all academic now i suppose, i didn't realise the offer only lasted 30 mins [09:50] i dunno how long it lasted [09:50] i just clicked it and the offer seemed ended [09:52] anyone know how i can dumnp a list of applications installed on my (non-rooted) android phone? [10:03] oimon: http://atrackdog.a0soft.com/app.php?id=9 says "Export app list for sharing" [10:03] oimon: the market remembers what you've bought, so you can just click the 'download em all' link on a new phone, otherwise it appears you might have to write an app or use DJones' app: http://qtcstation.com/2011/02/how-to-launch-another-app-from-your-app/ [10:05] DJones: that looks really handy, thanks [10:06] dwatkins: From what I could see, it only seems to list after market installs rather than default system apps, but certainly looks useful to know what you've installed [10:06] DJones: yeah, that sounds likely, unfortunately. I think I'd probably install Cyanogenmod if I wiped my phone and started again. The market has a record of what I've added at least, I gather. [10:07] dwatkins: I'd never realised/noticed that the market kept that info, although I shouldn't be surprised should I, it is google after all [10:08] Yeah, they do like to track stuff. [10:08] and "by stuff", google mean "everything" [10:11] They certainly have the capacity to track a lot of data. [10:17] google is just curious is all! [10:18] oh is that all they collect the data for? ;) [10:18] google doesn't have anything on Zeitgeist anyway ;) [10:21] The movie? [10:25] the software [10:26] it can know what you did, where you did it, what you were doing at the time and what you did it with === serial is now known as Guest53615 [10:32] i miss the days when you could pass a web page into a gtk file open dialogue and it would just work [10:42] thanks DJones, dwatkins [10:42] my sis has a new phone so i wanted to recommend some apps [10:44] Just the google ones [10:45] plus the peter griffin soundboard :) [10:52] Who? [10:55] just my little joke :) [10:56] peter griffin is family guy tc show [11:03] morning all [11:03] czajkowski: prod [11:04] morning davmor2 [11:05] morning popey how's life down South? [11:07] Great! [11:09] popey: I heard this rumour that some prat has taken to invading the release party with a wedding, I mean pick a day when they put up bunting and the like for the ubuntu release to try and make out it's some grandiose thing pffff [11:12] davmor2: I heard Kate & Bill picked tomorrow because they knew there was going to be the Ubuntu Natty bank holiday, so all their mates wouldn't need to take a day off work to attend the wedding [11:14] i have enough passwords these days that when logging in to things i don't even bother trying, i just press the "email me my password" option. starting to think that kind of authentication should be the default one [11:14] you mean like... SSO? [11:14] doesn't firefox remember them for you? [11:15] it's a good case for OpenID [11:15] not always, firefox has to detect websites with passwords and its not always able to [11:15] also a good case for a password manager like Keepass [11:15] it probably would do if i didn't have to delete the firefox settings every three months because it gets too slow [11:15] yeah :( [11:15] the profile gets corrupted regularly [11:15] particularly the history [11:15] stil prefer it to chromium though for some reason [11:16] gord: lastpass [11:17] how is Piranha for clustering on ubuntu? [11:17] is that a good solution? [11:17] what kind of clustering? [11:17] just noticing that the PSN hackers also got data of birth and mother's maiden name...you can't go changing those! [11:17] yeah seen that kind of thing before, don't really trust the software [11:17] not to mention, don't want to get my passwords locked into some software [11:18] directhex: im thinking 2x load balancers (one master + backup) and n servers [11:18] irc is good for nut clustering [11:18] gord: lastpass plugin for firefox? [11:18] just seems to me that emailing me to ask if i should be allowed to log in is a better authentication method than a password that the website will store in plain text on their server because web devs are terrible terrible people [11:19] not all web devs obviously ;) [11:19] ali1234: The vet is good for nut unclustering as one of my dogs will confirm later today :D [11:19] it *is* a better method [11:19] i love getting emails after registering... "your username is x and your password is y, please keep it in a safe place" [11:21] I presume that's the sarcastic tense of "love" [11:22] anyone know if the gnome 3 ppa still breaks unity? [11:23] using the gnome 3 ppa is kind of like installing random libraries from natty into maverick, i would not recommend it [11:24] OK! [11:24] natty isn't a gnome 3 release, installing a bucket of gnome 3 libs is asking for trouble [11:24] (sadly) [11:25] right... time for 11.04 i guess [11:25] well gnome 3 came too late in the cycle, we knew that would be the case six months ago when they delayed it yet again [11:26] * SuperMatt nods [11:27] it's the first ubuntu version to ship with outdated gnome, afaik [11:28] "Storing passwords as hashes instead of plain text is now illegal in France" [11:29] oimon: that is not true [11:29] Happily, you're not actually storing the password when you use a hash [11:29] it can be encrypted [11:29] You have to use reversible encryption? [11:30] awilkins: you could use 'encryption' that is not reversible and blame it on a bug :D [11:30] sorry - just noticed this conversation - do you have a link to more info on this as it sounds quite interesting? [11:31] http://tricomts.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/france-to-outlaw-hash-passwords/ [11:31] thanks dogmatic69 [11:31] http://www.ewanleith.com/blog/116/france-requires-new-silly-data-retention-policies [11:31] np [11:31] AFAIK, that's Daily mail style reporting [11:32] the actual law is more "If the password is stored in plain text, you need to make it available to law enforcement agencies if they ask" [11:32] or in sony's case, to anyone! [11:32] s/anyone/everyone [11:32] FWIG, but I'm not French and that's fourth- or fifth- hand translation [11:32] haha [11:32] BigRedS: i seem to have fallen foul of the mistransalated article [11:32] the whole sony thing is fine, everyones passwords were already known from the gawker thing [11:33] :) [11:33] I had to change all mine thanks to gawker [11:33] glad I did though [11:33] now they're all different [11:33] BigRedS: it doesn't seem as bad as the dailymail headlines after all [11:33] oimon: most of the english-language press reported it as "md5 banned in france" [11:33] yeah me too, but i'd been procrastinating doing that for a while - more hacks to make me do things please! [11:33] which, I suspect, is because our government *is* daft enough to pass a law like that [11:33] but the French one isn't [11:34] this psn hack has made me set up two stage verification on my gmail address, yay [11:34] BigRedS: passwords and hashes must be provided if they are stored, and must be kept for one year after [11:34] gord: ifs the 2 stage verification involving a mobile phone? [11:34] tis [11:34] i think that would bite me one day [11:34] oimon: yeah, that sounds about right. It's hard to find someone to translate legalese French into peasant's English :) [11:34] when i'm out of battery [11:34] you get some additional codes that you can print off, good for one use [11:35] somebody got my mates gmail account and got up to all sorts of shenanigans [11:36] http://www.fastcodesign.com/1663683/far-better-than-3-d-animated-gifs-that-savor-a-passing-moment [11:36] nice [11:37] i saw that a few days ago, it *still* bugs me that they reference 3d. it has nothing to do with 3d >:( [11:43] the last innovative use of .gif was images which "wobble", and turn 3d if you cross your eyes a little [11:44] gord: it's only using 3D in the sense of "this is better than 3d" [11:44] since 3d is current for 'cool' [11:45] it's not better than 3d [11:45] you dont need special glasses to view it :) [11:46] which makes it 'better' in at least one way [11:46] I'm kind of tired of people who shout things like "3D is a giant scam!!" [11:46] oh, 3d is a giant scam, that is certain [11:46] haha [11:46] in the same way widescreen, dolby digital, HD... were? [11:46] no [11:46] all of those were an improvement [11:46] a way to get people back into the cinema away from telly? [11:46] 3d just looks dumb [11:47] I like 3D done well, and I think this generation of tech is the first to do it well [11:47] the problem with 3d is it is not really 3d [11:47] you can't look behind something [11:47] it's very annoying [11:47] I always liked the sterescopic 3d pictures that were popular in the late 90's [11:47] Some films it adds to - "How to Train Your Dragon" was enhanced by it, some films are just rubbish - Beowulf [11:49] Besides, how else are they going to prime the R&D pump for the full-holodeck experience without selling massive 3D TVs to everyone :P [11:49] * awilkins notes that he still has a relatively old 28" CRT television that weighs about 50kg [11:50] ali1234, fixed focal distance is annoying, yes [11:50] ali1234, it's not an issue in some circumstances, it is in others [11:51] I find it helps my waning focal muscles in my right eye by forcing both eyes to focus to see the picture properly [11:52] it's not an issue as long as you have your head clamped in a vice while watching the movie [11:52] sounds good lol [11:52] awilkins: It is? The 3d is only realistically 2 1/2 d at best. Until they make holographic projectors where you don't need to look a prat in glasses then it is a big CON! [11:52] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/27/nokia_cuts_memo/ [11:52] ali1234, you mentioned movies, not me [11:53] also it has nothing to do with fixed focal distance [11:53] and everything to do with total lack of parallax motion [11:53] * awilkins is a little peeved at the lack of love for his N900 now [11:54] awilkins, we have an office filled with n900 owners. and developers, to a degree. nokia news is always "fun" [11:54] ^ if any of this news comes as a surprise you haven't been paying attention [11:55] nokia pretty much pulled out of meego months ago [11:55] Oh hell, yes, not a surprise [11:55] despite constant denials, everyone knew it was happening [11:55] and they've never supported old devices with updates [11:55] it does raise interesting questions for contractors with previously signed multi-year contracts [11:56] I was even laying the groundwork for trying out the developer image of MeeGo a couple of nights ago [11:56] the idea of n900 getting a real meego official and supported install has never been on the table [11:56] awilkins: trying meego on n900 is real easy, there is no ground work except for install 1 package and dd an image to an sd card, it takes 5 minutes [11:57] ali1234, Yeah, I installed the SD card kernel loader, now my phone boots with a penguin, just didn't get around to preparing the card [11:57] It was bedtime [11:57] awilkins: i wrote that code :) [11:57] there seems to be an unnerving similarity in the approach of nokia and my own employer lately [11:58] ali1234, Which image do you recommend, sanity or one of the others? [11:58] nokia are heading all the way down to the bottom [11:58] awilkins: dunno, i haven't tried one for ages [11:58] awilkins: take the one with the newest timestamp [11:59] it's not like they're even at the point of stabilizing yet [11:59] ali1234, Yeah, the "won't charge off the charger" thing is worrying [11:59] lol, they *still* haven't fixed that? [11:59] ali1234, It's not clear whether they have or not [12:00] well i wouldn't worry, it won't take you longer than about 5 minutes to realize meego is nowhere near done yet [12:00] aand... "MeeGo trunk is broken at the moment, so DE daily images are not working either." [12:00] the n900 was disowned at birth pretty much [12:00] that's not really true [12:01] it had as many updates as any other nokia device [12:01] i have never seen any assertion otherwise other than by fans who bought one in the hope it would live on [12:01] probably more updates than most [12:01] yes [12:01] but the future development of the platform (other than updates) was never really assured [12:01] software updates do not a platform make [12:01] yes but the exact same thing happened with n800 [12:02] exactly [12:02] so this is hardly surprising [12:02] yeah [12:02] its the reason I never bought an n900, despite coveting them greatly [12:02] i almost bought one [12:02] because of the great hardware, and promises [12:02] popey, the n900 was stillborn, thanks to nokia intentionally murdering it [12:03] but went for the desire mainly due to ££ difference [12:03] Wifelet just got a Desire Z ... I am envious [12:03] within a month of it going on sale I was sure it would go nowhere [12:03] hence buying an android phone [12:03] (HAH!) [12:03] i am coveting the eee pad transformer right now [12:03] and now iphone [12:03] yeah, I used an N900, great little portable linux PC... but figured I'd need to change to something else sooner or later... [12:03] n900 was never meant to be a phone anyway [12:03] s/used/use [12:04] Wonder if you can try this Android / N900 build in a non-permanent manner... [12:04] nope [12:04] it's not compatible with u-boot [12:04] because they use an ancient nokia kernel with too many bugs [12:05] ali1234, So it could probably be patched up then... shame I don't have time / madskillz [12:05] i sent a patch for the worst bug [12:05] think yourselves lucky that nokia didn't release a meego tablet 1 month before the MS deal [12:05] it got applied about 3 days ago (i sent it about 3 months ago) [12:05] all the geeks would have piled in [12:06] oimon: i think they will still release their "one meego device" [12:06] (which won't even be meego compliant lol) [12:06] ali1234: but we are wise now...right?? RIGHT??? [12:06]