/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/28/#ubuntu-accessibility.txt

TheMusoWow. That open mary sample sounds better than I thought.00:15
hajour1:))) prudence or spike TheMuso ?00:16
TheMusoAlthough getting that file to be heard via speech dispatcher wil take a few more cycles with a generic config file, so will not be as responsive as a native driver may be.00:16
TheMusohajour1: The sample AlanBell created and linked to.00:16
UndiFineDTheMuso, prudence or spike ?00:16
TheMusoI don't know.00:18
hajour1we hear nothing TheMuso  on that sample00:18
TheMusohttp://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/mary.wav00:18
TheMusothats the one I am referring to./00:19
hajour1can be that our sound settings not are right TheMuso 00:19
TheMusoPossibly.00:19
hajour1need to test that out first00:19
hajour1but its 1:19 in night and need to go to the doctor with my youngest at 8:00 in morning00:20
hajour1need some sleep to00:20
hajour1i go try to figure it out tomorrow further TheMuso 00:21
TheMusohajour1: ok.00:21
hajour1hi Pendulum  wb00:21
hajour1just have told the good news in speechcontrol00:21
hajour1is just they need good news00:22
hajour1but i will be here in evening tomorrow TheMuso  in day i appointment with doctors and homecleaner comes00:23
hajour1goodnight for later all00:24
Pendulumg'night hajour1 00:24
hajour1:)00:24
webczatGoing to sleep, bye.00:32
Pendulumoh, completely forgot to mention at meeting01:45
PendulumBlogging Against Disablism Day is Sunday01:45
Pendulumhttp://blobolobolob.blogspot.com/2011/04/blogging-against-disablism-day-will-be.html01:47
TheMusoCool.01:55
* TheMuso reads.01:55
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AlanBellI got openmary working with speech dispatcher08:30
UndiFineDAlanBell, nice !09:06
hajour1just have read by UndiFineD  screen.09:07
hajour1great AlanBell 09:07
UndiFineDAlanBell, any repeatable steps ?09:09
AlanBellyeah, will give you the files in a sec09:20
AlanBellI also just installed an openmary server on a fast server I have09:20
AlanBellhttp://mumble.libertus.co.uk:59125/09:20
AlanBelland I installed a few of the hmm voices09:21
AlanBellthere are plenty more, I just picked good ones09:21
AlanBellI think I will set obadiah as the default for now09:21
AlanBellok, so what you need to do is download this file http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/openmary.conf09:23
AlanBelland put it in /etc/speech-dispatcher/modules/09:24
AlanBellthen edit /etc/speech-dispatcher/speechd.conf09:24
AlanBelland add a line AddModule "openmary" "sd_generic" "openmary.conf"09:24
AlanBellwhere all the other AddModule bits are09:24
AlanBellhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/speechd.conf <- like in that one09:25
AlanBellthen sudo killall speech-dispatcher (in case it is already running)09:25
AlanBellthen09:25
AlanBellspd-say -o openmary "wow, this sounds awesome"09:26
AlanBellspd-say "compared with this which is the espeak voice"09:26
AlanBelland in your orca preferences you can select the openmary speech synthesiser on the speech tab09:27
hajour1reading back  was adjust colours from chat09:30
AlanBellwould be kind of interested to know if that works for people09:55
UndiFineDit seems my sound is broken09:55
UndiFineDi get a lot of static09:55
UndiFineDoverruling my audio output still hearable in a faint background09:56
UndiFineDkeimpe@undifined:~$ spd-say -o openmary "wow, this sounds awesome"09:57
UndiFineDclient: Speech Dispatcher failed to open: No such file or directory09:57
UndiFineDkeimpe@undifined:~$ spd-say "compared with this which is the espeak voice"09:57
UndiFineDclient: Speech Dispatcher failed to open: No such file or directory09:57
AlanBellok, so you need to fix that anyway10:03
AlanBellif speech dispatcher isn't working with espeak then orca won't work anyway10:04
hajour1AlanBell,  i will go try today or it will work on my oldest daughter pc10:07
hajour1AlanBell,  i think i miss some program or something like that on my daughters pc from java script10:46
hajour1need to go to the bank so10:47
hajour1i completly forgot my pin code from my bank pas last week10:47
AlanBellok, it just works on a default ubuntu install with firefox or chromium10:47
hajour1i not dared to try to put in third pin code i was afraid i would block my banking card10:48
hajour1 my daughter wants her pc back and i need to go to the bank to11:21
hajour1<hajour1> so i probarly will be back again in the evening11:21
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macohttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-kubuntu-accessibility18:42
macoPendulum: ^18:42
UndiFineDmaco :)18:44
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pleia2so, the Hungarian team is going to help us get to the Invisible Exhibition on Wednesday (couldn't get Thursday dinner to work), would it be worthwhile advertising this on the accessibility blog? we'll need people to sign up for it beforehand since space at the exhibition is limited, we're going to use loco directory for this21:11
pleia2er, at UDS21:11
paul_h1hi all, a while back we were talking about changing an installed ubuntu natty system over from using unity to using classic gnome-panel without sight. was a way found to do this please?21:36
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macopaul_h1: the login screen should allow it but im not sure what the key sequence is to open the options menu21:37
paul_h1yeah, I know it can be done from the login screen but the key sequence (if one exists) is what I need21:38
JackyAlcineAlanBell, how did you get speech dispatcher and libopenmary working? 21:39
JackyAlcineI was still trying to write the extension for speechd.21:40
macoi dont have a natty system here :(21:40
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paul_h1TheMuso: are you about?22:29
macopaul_h1: i asked in #ubuntu-devel and someone went and tried and couldnt figure out how to do it with keyboard22:33
macoTheMuso: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-kubuntu-accessibility may want to subscribe to that22:33
maco(and mark essential?)22:34
paul_h1maco: damn, well thanks for asking22:34
macoTheMuso: for once, it actually makes sense for a11y folks to talk to kde people, so... 22:34
macopaul_h1: im asking another person in case it takes multiple heads22:37
maco(i use kubuntu, so if i were near my natty box, it wouldnt have gdm or classic ubuntu or unity or any of that anyway)22:37
macojbicha: yes this channel is why i was asking22:39
paul_h1maco: I don't have that option yet, kde a11y support not ready yet22:39
jbichadoes anyone know how to access the bottom panel in the GDM login screen via keyboard?22:39
macopaul_h1: i just learned that a screenreader was written in the last couple months22:39
macopaul_h1: i tried it a couple days ago. for normal widgets it works alright22:40
macounfortunately, the terminal widget in konsole and khtml in konqueror are special widgets that dont yet have a11y extensions22:40
macojbicha: thats what paul_h1 is trying to ask. you were my choice for guinea pig #222:40
macojbicha: (pitt was guinea pig #1)22:40
maco*pitti22:40
macopaul_h1: anyway, i'll be working on getting the new kde screenreader into kubuntu's default install in 11.10 and getting a way to turn it on when the live cd starts up and use it throughout install and all and turn on automatically on installed systems if they were installed in accessible mode (just like ubuntu does right now)22:41
jbichaI was trying yesterday and somehow I managed to access the "shutdown menu" by keyboard but it didn't help with the other menus22:41
macowell, except hopefully better, because ubuntu's installer says silly useless things like variable names and i intend to fix THAT too22:42
paul_h1maco: what's this screen reader for kde called? I thought the plan was to get Orca to be able to read kde22:43
macopaul_h1: KAccessible22:43
macopaul_h1: support for AT-SPI2 was in the works but AT-SPI2 got so behind that Qt people just went and made their own framework (QAccessible) which KAccessible uses22:44
paul_h1maco: does it use at-spi?22:44
macopaul_h1: no22:44
macothere's a semi-working bridge for making QAccessible work with the little bit of AT-SPI2 that exists22:44
macoold AT-SPI had some only-works-if-you-include-gnome-libs stuff going on, is what i've gathered. meanwhile at-spi2 is d-bus based, so it can work for both, if it ever gets finished22:45
macoat the moment, if you want to have screenreading for both gnome & kde apps, you need to have two screenreaders running22:46
macoas at-spi2 and the qt-at-spi bridge improve, that'll change22:46
paul_h1maco: I was under the impression that the d-bus at-spi was basically finished. just needs testing22:48
macommm maybe? but it was supposed to be finished like 2 years ago22:48
macohence the "kde got tired of waiting"22:48
macoqt-at-spi is in alpha mode right now22:48
paul_h1quite, lack of resources, not will on the part of the gnome a11y team though22:49
macoQML does not have QAccessible support yet22:49
macowe're being told by the kde team that it's being worked on, so we're all crossing our fingers for Unity 2D in 11.10 to be accessibl22:49
macoe22:49
paul_h1yeah, I know there are some people who will need the qml unity to be accessible22:50
TheMusomaco: Thanks.22:57
TheMusoAccessing the bottom panel in gdm is done with Control + Alt + Tab.23:00
TheMusoRather clunky IMO.23:00
paul_h1TheMuso: quick question if I may, do I need to create the same /etc/sudoers.d/ file with Natty  as in Maverick to get Orca to work with apps ran with sudo?23:01
TheMusoat-spi2 is pretty much complete API wise, its just internal stability and IPC stuff that needs improving now afaik.23:01
TheMusopaul_h1: Yes.23:01
paul_h1TheMuso: thanks. just installed natty on a new machine but couldn't get the blindness profile on boot23:02
TheMusohrm ok.23:05
TheMusomaco: Subscribed.23:05
paul_h1TheMuso: so is there a way to switch to classic gnome in natty from gdm via the keyboard?23:17
charlie-tcapaul_h1: there is a way, if you can use a terminal23:20
charlie-tcait requires editing ~/.dmrc23:20
macopaul_h1: apparently step one is ctrl+alt+tab23:21
macojbicha: can you try figuring out keyboard movements after the ctrl+alt+tab step?23:22
TheMusoHang on, let me grab another machine and run through it there.23:22
jbichano, step one is Enter23:23
macojbicha: Enter? to do what?23:23
TheMusoUnfortunately this procedure will require a way to check the current location of the session combo box.23:23
jbichawell you have to select the user you want before you can choose the session23:23
macosince when?23:23
jbichait's been that way at least since the new gdm a few releases ago23:24
macosilly sounding23:24
TheMusoOk, assuming you ahven't changed any session settinsg for the user: enter to select user, then: control + alt + tab, tab 4 times, enter, down arrow once, enter, control + alt + tab.23:24
macoTheMuso: would it take a miracle to get a screenreader working on gdm?23:25
jbichaor Enter, CTRL+ALT+TAB, left, down, then you can CTRL+ALT+TAB to get back to your password field23:25
TheMusomaco: If there was UI to do it from a logged in session, no, but yes, unless you want to hand set gconf values.23:26
macothis channel's gonna turn me into a mac user 23:26
TheMusolol23:26
TheMusoGdm is still rather bad a11y wise IMO.23:27
TheMusoIf lightdm is adopted, I will be working with Robert et al to make sure its actually easy to enable a11y.23:27
macocant canonical find another sound person so you can do a11y full-time?23:28
TheMusoThat would be nice, but I don't feel I am in a position to push that.23:28
paul_hTheMuso: your instructions worked, thanks heaps23:35
TheMusopaul_h: Np.23:36
charlie-tcaI wrote those down this time, too23:40
paul_hcharlie-tca: yeah, we need a complete set of instructions for doing accessible installs 23:41
charlie-tcayeah, we knoiw23:44
charlie-tcaI only wrote the first test case three times, to have it wrong by the end23:44
charlie-tcaHopefully, we will do better for the next release, since unity is now there23:45
TheMusoWell I plan to make it easier to enable accessibility for oneiric. It doesn't require a blueprint on its own, but will be talked about in the ubiquity accessibility review blueprint.23:45
charlie-tcaThat would be great! 23:45
TheMusoIt basically means setting up keyboard shortcuts or mouse gestures for the first screen one sees when booting the live image, i.e ht escreen where you choose to try or install Ubuntu.23:46
TheMusoSo then screen comes up, how we will let the user know about this yet I don't know, maybe play the login sound.23:46
paul_hTheMuso: ubiquity accessibility review? will this be an open thing? would like to be present / witness to it23:47
TheMusoThen they press a shortcut to load Orca, and then things proceed on from there.23:47
TheMusopaul_h: Yes, its a proposed blueprint for UDS O.23:47
charlie-tcaYou are going to try to enable orca from there? That would be so much easier than what we have to do now.23:48
* charlie-tca thinks we done good considering where we started for Natty :-)23:48
TheMusoYes I am.23:50
paul_hTheMuso: orca is already capable of reading the try / instal screen. if you restart gdm after enabling accessibility orca reads that dialogue to you23:50
TheMusopaul_h: I know, but we can make it accessible from the word go.23:50
TheMusoAnd a keyboard shortcut.23:50
charlie-tcaand a sound when the screen appears, too? 23:51
paul_hTheMuso: absolutely23:51
charlie-tcawin/win23:51
TheMusocharlie-tca: Yes.23:51
TheMusoI'm already starting to think about the technical side of how this will be achieved.23:52
charlie-tcaOkay! I will stick around for another go at things, then. Let me know when to test it, and I will be ready23:52
TheMusoOk, won't be for a w hile though, this is for oneiric.23:52
charlie-tcano problem23:52
charlie-tcaI will upgrade my system around alpha1, since I test everything. 23:53
TheMusoI should also have a look at oemconfig as well, ad see what can be done a11y wise there too.23:53
charlie-tcaI never thought about that. That would be good too.23:54
charlie-tcaXfce 4.10 is working towards accessibility, too.23:54
TheMusoYeah I know.23:57
TheMusoWhen is XFCE 4.10 due to be released?23:57
TheMusoYeah, there is certainly enough work here to be a full time job.23:57
paul_hcharlie-tca: is a bug while selecting keyboard layouts in natty's ubiquity known about? I had to abort an install and start again because of it23:57
charlie-tcayes, I think it is already reported23:58
charlie-tcaTheMuso: another year23:58
charlie-tcaabout in time for 12.0423:58
TheMusoAh ok.23:59
TheMusoI really should set up a VM to test it at some point.23:59

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