[00:15] <TheMuso> Wow. That open mary sample sounds better than I thought.
[00:16] <hajour1> :))) prudence or spike TheMuso ?
[00:16] <TheMuso> Although getting that file to be heard via speech dispatcher wil take a few more cycles with a generic config file, so will not be as responsive as a native driver may be.
[00:16] <TheMuso> hajour1: The sample AlanBell created and linked to.
[00:16] <UndiFineD> TheMuso, prudence or spike ?
[00:18] <TheMuso> I don't know.
[00:18] <hajour1> we hear nothing TheMuso  on that sample
[00:18] <TheMuso> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/mary.wav
[00:19] <TheMuso> thats the one I am referring to./
[00:19] <hajour1> can be that our sound settings not are right TheMuso 
[00:19] <TheMuso> Possibly.
[00:19] <hajour1> need to test that out first
[00:20] <hajour1> but its 1:19 in night and need to go to the doctor with my youngest at 8:00 in morning
[00:20] <hajour1> need some sleep to
[00:21] <hajour1> i go try to figure it out tomorrow further TheMuso 
[00:21] <TheMuso> hajour1: ok.
[00:21] <hajour1> hi Pendulum  wb
[00:21] <hajour1> just have told the good news in speechcontrol
[00:22] <hajour1> is just they need good news
[00:23] <hajour1> but i will be here in evening tomorrow TheMuso  in day i appointment with doctors and homecleaner comes
[00:24] <hajour1> goodnight for later all
[00:24] <Pendulum> g'night hajour1 
[00:24] <hajour1> :)
[00:32] <webczat> Going to sleep, bye.
[01:45] <Pendulum> oh, completely forgot to mention at meeting
[01:45] <Pendulum> Blogging Against Disablism Day is Sunday
[01:47] <Pendulum> http://blobolobolob.blogspot.com/2011/04/blogging-against-disablism-day-will-be.html
[01:55] <TheMuso> Cool.
[01:55]  * TheMuso reads.
[08:30] <AlanBell> I got openmary working with speech dispatcher
[09:06] <UndiFineD> AlanBell, nice !
[09:07] <hajour1> just have read by UndiFineD  screen.
[09:07] <hajour1> great AlanBell 
[09:09] <UndiFineD> AlanBell, any repeatable steps ?
[09:20] <AlanBell> yeah, will give you the files in a sec
[09:20] <AlanBell> I also just installed an openmary server on a fast server I have
[09:20] <AlanBell> http://mumble.libertus.co.uk:59125/
[09:21] <AlanBell> and I installed a few of the hmm voices
[09:21] <AlanBell> there are plenty more, I just picked good ones
[09:21] <AlanBell> I think I will set obadiah as the default for now
[09:23] <AlanBell> ok, so what you need to do is download this file http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/openmary.conf
[09:24] <AlanBell> and put it in /etc/speech-dispatcher/modules/
[09:24] <AlanBell> then edit /etc/speech-dispatcher/speechd.conf
[09:24] <AlanBell> and add a line AddModule "openmary" "sd_generic" "openmary.conf"
[09:24] <AlanBell> where all the other AddModule bits are
[09:25] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/speechd.conf <- like in that one
[09:25] <AlanBell> then sudo killall speech-dispatcher (in case it is already running)
[09:25] <AlanBell> then
[09:26] <AlanBell> spd-say -o openmary "wow, this sounds awesome"
[09:26] <AlanBell> spd-say "compared with this which is the espeak voice"
[09:27] <AlanBell> and in your orca preferences you can select the openmary speech synthesiser on the speech tab
[09:30] <hajour1> reading back  was adjust colours from chat
[09:55] <AlanBell> would be kind of interested to know if that works for people
[09:55] <UndiFineD> it seems my sound is broken
[09:55] <UndiFineD> i get a lot of static
[09:56] <UndiFineD> overruling my audio output still hearable in a faint background
[09:57] <UndiFineD> keimpe@undifined:~$ spd-say -o openmary "wow, this sounds awesome"
[09:57] <UndiFineD> client: Speech Dispatcher failed to open: No such file or directory
[09:57] <UndiFineD> keimpe@undifined:~$ spd-say "compared with this which is the espeak voice"
[09:57] <UndiFineD> client: Speech Dispatcher failed to open: No such file or directory
[10:03] <AlanBell> ok, so you need to fix that anyway
[10:04] <AlanBell> if speech dispatcher isn't working with espeak then orca won't work anyway
[10:07] <hajour1> AlanBell,  i will go try today or it will work on my oldest daughter pc
[10:46] <hajour1> AlanBell,  i think i miss some program or something like that on my daughters pc from java script
[10:47] <hajour1> need to go to the bank so
[10:47] <hajour1> i completly forgot my pin code from my bank pas last week
[10:47] <AlanBell> ok, it just works on a default ubuntu install with firefox or chromium
[10:48] <hajour1> i not dared to try to put in third pin code i was afraid i would block my banking card
[11:21] <hajour1>  my daughter wants her pc back and i need to go to the bank to
 so i probarly will be back again in the evening
[18:42] <maco> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-kubuntu-accessibility
[18:42] <maco> Pendulum: ^
[18:44] <UndiFineD> maco :)
[21:11] <pleia2> so, the Hungarian team is going to help us get to the Invisible Exhibition on Wednesday (couldn't get Thursday dinner to work), would it be worthwhile advertising this on the accessibility blog? we'll need people to sign up for it beforehand since space at the exhibition is limited, we're going to use loco directory for this
[21:11] <pleia2> er, at UDS
[21:36] <paul_h1> hi all, a while back we were talking about changing an installed ubuntu natty system over from using unity to using classic gnome-panel without sight. was a way found to do this please?
[21:37] <maco> paul_h1: the login screen should allow it but im not sure what the key sequence is to open the options menu
[21:38] <paul_h1> yeah, I know it can be done from the login screen but the key sequence (if one exists) is what I need
[21:39] <JackyAlcine> AlanBell, how did you get speech dispatcher and libopenmary working? 
[21:40] <JackyAlcine> I was still trying to write the extension for speechd.
[21:40] <maco> i dont have a natty system here :(
[22:29] <paul_h1> TheMuso: are you about?
[22:33] <maco> paul_h1: i asked in #ubuntu-devel and someone went and tried and couldnt figure out how to do it with keyboard
[22:33] <maco> TheMuso: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-kubuntu-accessibility may want to subscribe to that
[22:34] <maco> (and mark essential?)
[22:34] <paul_h1> maco: damn, well thanks for asking
[22:34] <maco> TheMuso: for once, it actually makes sense for a11y folks to talk to kde people, so... 
[22:37] <maco> paul_h1: im asking another person in case it takes multiple heads
[22:37] <maco> (i use kubuntu, so if i were near my natty box, it wouldnt have gdm or classic ubuntu or unity or any of that anyway)
[22:39] <maco> jbicha: yes this channel is why i was asking
[22:39] <paul_h1> maco: I don't have that option yet, kde a11y support not ready yet
[22:39] <jbicha> does anyone know how to access the bottom panel in the GDM login screen via keyboard?
[22:39] <maco> paul_h1: i just learned that a screenreader was written in the last couple months
[22:40] <maco> paul_h1: i tried it a couple days ago. for normal widgets it works alright
[22:40] <maco> unfortunately, the terminal widget in konsole and khtml in konqueror are special widgets that dont yet have a11y extensions
[22:40] <maco> jbicha: thats what paul_h1 is trying to ask. you were my choice for guinea pig #2
[22:40] <maco> jbicha: (pitt was guinea pig #1)
[22:40] <maco> *pitti
[22:41] <maco> paul_h1: anyway, i'll be working on getting the new kde screenreader into kubuntu's default install in 11.10 and getting a way to turn it on when the live cd starts up and use it throughout install and all and turn on automatically on installed systems if they were installed in accessible mode (just like ubuntu does right now)
[22:41] <jbicha> I was trying yesterday and somehow I managed to access the "shutdown menu" by keyboard but it didn't help with the other menus
[22:42] <maco> well, except hopefully better, because ubuntu's installer says silly useless things like variable names and i intend to fix THAT too
[22:43] <paul_h1> maco: what's this screen reader for kde called? I thought the plan was to get Orca to be able to read kde
[22:43] <maco> paul_h1: KAccessible
[22:44] <maco> paul_h1: support for AT-SPI2 was in the works but AT-SPI2 got so behind that Qt people just went and made their own framework (QAccessible) which KAccessible uses
[22:44] <paul_h1> maco: does it use at-spi?
[22:44] <maco> paul_h1: no
[22:44] <maco> there's a semi-working bridge for making QAccessible work with the little bit of AT-SPI2 that exists
[22:45] <maco> old AT-SPI had some only-works-if-you-include-gnome-libs stuff going on, is what i've gathered. meanwhile at-spi2 is d-bus based, so it can work for both, if it ever gets finished
[22:46] <maco> at the moment, if you want to have screenreading for both gnome & kde apps, you need to have two screenreaders running
[22:46] <maco> as at-spi2 and the qt-at-spi bridge improve, that'll change
[22:48] <paul_h1> maco: I was under the impression that the d-bus at-spi was basically finished. just needs testing
[22:48] <maco> mmm maybe? but it was supposed to be finished like 2 years ago
[22:48] <maco> hence the "kde got tired of waiting"
[22:48] <maco> qt-at-spi is in alpha mode right now
[22:49] <paul_h1> quite, lack of resources, not will on the part of the gnome a11y team though
[22:49] <maco> QML does not have QAccessible support yet
[22:49] <maco> we're being told by the kde team that it's being worked on, so we're all crossing our fingers for Unity 2D in 11.10 to be accessibl
[22:49] <maco> e
[22:50] <paul_h1> yeah, I know there are some people who will need the qml unity to be accessible
[22:57] <TheMuso> maco: Thanks.
[23:00] <TheMuso> Accessing the bottom panel in gdm is done with Control + Alt + Tab.
[23:00] <TheMuso> Rather clunky IMO.
[23:01] <paul_h1> TheMuso: quick question if I may, do I need to create the same /etc/sudoers.d/ file with Natty  as in Maverick to get Orca to work with apps ran with sudo?
[23:01] <TheMuso> at-spi2 is pretty much complete API wise, its just internal stability and IPC stuff that needs improving now afaik.
[23:01] <TheMuso> paul_h1: Yes.
[23:02] <paul_h1> TheMuso: thanks. just installed natty on a new machine but couldn't get the blindness profile on boot
[23:05] <TheMuso> hrm ok.
[23:05] <TheMuso> maco: Subscribed.
[23:17] <paul_h1> TheMuso: so is there a way to switch to classic gnome in natty from gdm via the keyboard?
[23:20] <charlie-tca> paul_h1: there is a way, if you can use a terminal
[23:20] <charlie-tca> it requires editing ~/.dmrc
[23:21] <maco> paul_h1: apparently step one is ctrl+alt+tab
[23:22] <maco> jbicha: can you try figuring out keyboard movements after the ctrl+alt+tab step?
[23:22] <TheMuso> Hang on, let me grab another machine and run through it there.
[23:23] <jbicha> no, step one is Enter
[23:23] <maco> jbicha: Enter? to do what?
[23:23] <TheMuso> Unfortunately this procedure will require a way to check the current location of the session combo box.
[23:23] <jbicha> well you have to select the user you want before you can choose the session
[23:23] <maco> since when?
[23:24] <jbicha> it's been that way at least since the new gdm a few releases ago
[23:24] <maco> silly sounding
[23:24] <TheMuso> Ok, assuming you ahven't changed any session settinsg for the user: enter to select user, then: control + alt + tab, tab 4 times, enter, down arrow once, enter, control + alt + tab.
[23:25] <maco> TheMuso: would it take a miracle to get a screenreader working on gdm?
[23:25] <jbicha> or Enter, CTRL+ALT+TAB, left, down, then you can CTRL+ALT+TAB to get back to your password field
[23:26] <TheMuso> maco: If there was UI to do it from a logged in session, no, but yes, unless you want to hand set gconf values.
[23:26] <maco> this channel's gonna turn me into a mac user 
[23:26] <TheMuso> lol
[23:27] <TheMuso> Gdm is still rather bad a11y wise IMO.
[23:27] <TheMuso> If lightdm is adopted, I will be working with Robert et al to make sure its actually easy to enable a11y.
[23:28] <maco> cant canonical find another sound person so you can do a11y full-time?
[23:28] <TheMuso> That would be nice, but I don't feel I am in a position to push that.
[23:35] <paul_h> TheMuso: your instructions worked, thanks heaps
[23:36] <TheMuso> paul_h: Np.
[23:40] <charlie-tca> I wrote those down this time, too
[23:41] <paul_h> charlie-tca: yeah, we need a complete set of instructions for doing accessible installs 
[23:44] <charlie-tca> yeah, we knoiw
[23:44] <charlie-tca> I only wrote the first test case three times, to have it wrong by the end
[23:45] <charlie-tca> Hopefully, we will do better for the next release, since unity is now there
[23:45] <TheMuso> Well I plan to make it easier to enable accessibility for oneiric. It doesn't require a blueprint on its own, but will be talked about in the ubiquity accessibility review blueprint.
[23:45] <charlie-tca> That would be great! 
[23:46] <TheMuso> It basically means setting up keyboard shortcuts or mouse gestures for the first screen one sees when booting the live image, i.e ht escreen where you choose to try or install Ubuntu.
[23:46] <TheMuso> So then screen comes up, how we will let the user know about this yet I don't know, maybe play the login sound.
[23:47] <paul_h> TheMuso: ubiquity accessibility review? will this be an open thing? would like to be present / witness to it
[23:47] <TheMuso> Then they press a shortcut to load Orca, and then things proceed on from there.
[23:47] <TheMuso> paul_h: Yes, its a proposed blueprint for UDS O.
[23:48] <charlie-tca> You are going to try to enable orca from there? That would be so much easier than what we have to do now.
[23:48]  * charlie-tca thinks we done good considering where we started for Natty :-)
[23:50] <TheMuso> Yes I am.
[23:50] <paul_h> TheMuso: orca is already capable of reading the try / instal screen. if you restart gdm after enabling accessibility orca reads that dialogue to you
[23:50] <TheMuso> paul_h: I know, but we can make it accessible from the word go.
[23:50] <TheMuso> And a keyboard shortcut.
[23:51] <charlie-tca> and a sound when the screen appears, too? 
[23:51] <paul_h> TheMuso: absolutely
[23:51] <charlie-tca> win/win
[23:51] <TheMuso> charlie-tca: Yes.
[23:52] <TheMuso> I'm already starting to think about the technical side of how this will be achieved.
[23:52] <charlie-tca> Okay! I will stick around for another go at things, then. Let me know when to test it, and I will be ready
[23:52] <TheMuso> Ok, won't be for a w hile though, this is for oneiric.
[23:52] <charlie-tca> no problem
[23:53] <charlie-tca> I will upgrade my system around alpha1, since I test everything. 
[23:53] <TheMuso> I should also have a look at oemconfig as well, ad see what can be done a11y wise there too.
[23:54] <charlie-tca> I never thought about that. That would be good too.
[23:54] <charlie-tca> Xfce 4.10 is working towards accessibility, too.
[23:57] <TheMuso> Yeah I know.
[23:57] <TheMuso> When is XFCE 4.10 due to be released?
[23:57] <TheMuso> Yeah, there is certainly enough work here to be a full time job.
[23:57] <paul_h> charlie-tca: is a bug while selecting keyboard layouts in natty's ubiquity known about? I had to abort an install and start again because of it
[23:58] <charlie-tca> yes, I think it is already reported
[23:58] <charlie-tca> TheMuso: another year
[23:58] <charlie-tca> about in time for 12.04
[23:59] <TheMuso> Ah ok.
[23:59] <TheMuso> I really should set up a VM to test it at some point.