=== _Tommeh is now known as Tommeh === asac_ is now known as asac [03:19] RAOF, TheMuso hey guys [03:19] Hey. [03:19] Hey rickspencer3_. [03:19] I need a better nick [03:20] :) [03:20] RAOF, TheMuso so, Natty goes out tomorrow [03:20] thoughts? [03:20] Its another release, things work better, a11y is incrementally better... I have been involved with so many releases now that one doesn't necessarily feel any more special than the other. === rickspencer3_ is now known as JerryGarcia [03:21] It'll be fun. [03:21] * JerryGarcia rips some licks, mostly mixolydian and dorian [03:21] TheMuso, how do you feel it compares quality-wise? [03:21] I don't think X will explode or cause Unity to look bad. [03:22] I think Unity itself looks pretty good. [03:22] Overall uality is fine, but I think unity could have done with 6 months more baking after the rewrite personally, and that will happen for oneiric, but 6 months more only in testing mode may have been better. [03:23] interesting [03:23] well, I think it's been a relatively intense release cycle in some ways [03:23] Yes it has. [03:23] I know some folks worked a bit even extra hard [03:24] I guess my thoughts re unity above are in relation to a11y not getting completed. If unity wasn't such a moving target, a11y enablement would have been easier./ [03:24] TheMuso, for sure [03:24] let's not back off of that [03:24] Of course not. [03:24] make sure it's done done for 11.10 [03:24] and also, we've got to get Qt accessible as well [03:24] Thats the plan. I have a lot more dbusmenu/indicator work to be done too. [03:25] Yep, thats going to be difficult, since afaik unity 2D uses QML. [03:25] yup [03:25] we've got to fix that, make Qt/QML work for everyone [03:25] And QML isn't accessible? [03:25] JerryGarcia: you're nick is making me hungry for ice cream :) [03:25] *your === JerryGarcia is now known as CherryGracia [03:26] RAOF: Not yet. The qt at-spi bridge works with some/most conventional QT widgets, but QML support is still in the early stages. [03:27] QML is a weird beast, it's not quite like a traditional widget toolkit [03:27] CherryGracia: that's just cruel [03:27] cruel indeed [03:27] but Ben and Jerry's is so good [03:29] CherryGracia: Do you know if there are plans to eventually merge unity and unity 2D? [03:29] Because that would make much more sense. [03:29] TheMuso, none that I know of [03:29] well ... [03:29] rickspencer3, how are you feeling about it? [03:29] I don't know [03:29] Then we just tie in atk/at-spi to the unity backend, and its toolkit abnostic then, and will just work a11y wise. [03:29] I wouldn't underestimate what the Unity team will be able to do with nux [03:29] Right, more work duplication then... :S [03:30] well, only the view is duplicated [03:30] hey bryceh, what do *you* think? [03:31] hey rick [03:31] :) [03:32] CherryGracia, looking only at X, I feel like there was a humongous amount of progress, and I especially got through a lot of Intel driver bugs [03:32] sweet [03:32] bryceh, how about the release as a whole? [03:32] the gpu freeze situation is definitely a couple orders of magnitude better than we've done in the past [03:32] bryceh, for sure [03:33] lots of investments on your part starting to pay off [03:33] CherryGracia, well, I'd echo what TheMuso says that more testing of unity could have benefitted us, although it's impressive how well it came together by the end [03:33] yeah [03:34] although, it is rock solid for me [03:34] It always is. [03:34] I mean, from every point of view [03:34] Developers don't run into bugs. [03:34] First law of programming. [03:34] I find it so much easier to use than old gnome [03:34] RAOF, I am hardly a developer :) [03:34] RAOF, unless it's code they're not involved in, in which case they run across weird random issues no one else in the world can reproduce [03:35] hah [03:35] CherryGracia, I'm using it on my -intel systems, but found it was just slightly too laggy for my -ati box so went back to non-compiz there [03:35] dang it [03:36] I have been well served by sticking to intel graphics [03:36] let's see if in 11.10 we can make it sing with nvidia [03:36] but aside from the lagginess it worked well; few graphics issues, no crashers or lockups [03:36] In my experience it *does* sing on nvidia. [03:36] If Intel made discrete cards for desktops, I'd use them, but since they don't, ATI cards are my next best choice./ [03:36] Then again, I don't normally use my nvidia system :) [03:37] I had a lot of trouble doing without gnome-panel though (ended up just loading it atop unity, then was fine) [03:37] CherryGracia: i've been using it on nvidia-current for the past few days and it seems to be working fine. granted, i only use chrome and gnome-terminal on this machine :) [03:37] huh [03:37] hey broder yeah, I think nvidia with the proprietary driver is working well, or so I hear [03:37] (and notice in the bug reports) [03:38] personally, I suspect that 11.04 represents a significant step forward for the project [03:38] I'd agree with that. [03:38] I believe that Unity is well position to capture a lot of users who wouldn;'t have considered a free desktop in the past [03:38] I know I will enjoy using Unity when its fully a11y enabled./ [03:39] TheMuso, fully enabled is part of making it a consumer grade product [03:39] Yep. [03:39] Consumer Grade Quality by 12.04! [03:39] I think that with what we accomplished in 11.04, and then some innovation in how we do QA, we could really bring Free software to a lot more users [03:39] I mean A LOT [03:40] Yep. [03:40] even my wife begrudgingly admitted that Unity looked both cool and easy to use ;) [03:40] :) [03:40] I've not yet put it on my wife's system [03:40] CherryGracia, qa innovations? [03:40] bryceh, yeah [03:41] do tell [03:42] well ... the QA team is in a position to wipe the slate clean, and help us figure out better ways to manage quality [05:03] hi all... ;-) [05:03] bye... === nekohayo is now known as nekohayo_away [07:48] good morning [07:49] Good morning [07:50] dobey: 709494 SRU> as I said, just upload the package; uploads will be reviewed from the queue [07:53] hey pitti [07:53] hey didrocks [07:53] the new unity seems to have a regression :/ the launcher stays on the screen even when there are windows moving under it [07:53] * pitti will try to construct a reproducible test case [07:54] pitti: oh really? isn't it a stacking issue? I didn't get that at all [07:55] pitti: if you are in that state again (even if you don't have a reproducible test case, can you please: dbus-send --print-reply --dest=com.canonical.Unity.Launcher /com/canonical/Unity/Debug com.canonical.Unity.Debug.Introspection.GetState string:'Launcher' [07:55] pitti: the value next to hide-quirks is the one interessing me [07:55] didrocks: stacking is fine, it's just not going away when it should [07:55] didrocks: sure, I'll try that [07:56] pitti: sometimes, compiz stacking is screwed in some way that isn't visible (because we force the launcher to be repainted above), and compiz doesn't tell "there is a window below" [07:56] but well, this debug info will still give us an help :) [07:57] pitti: there is one case with qt app dnd which doesn't release the Xorg info, but it's already in the current natty version :/ [08:04] didrocks: erm, this d-bus command just crashed unity [08:04] ? [08:04] how come! [08:04] * didrocks tries [08:05] didrocks: anyway, I think I can reproduce it; I'll file a bug, and mark the current SRU as regression [08:05] no crash here, I have the debug output as usual [08:05] pitti: ok, nice! :-) [08:08] pitti: just hilight me with the bug number then please, so that I can at least have a quick look [08:08] didrocks: ok, got the debug output, too [08:09] pitti: sweet! [08:09] what the magical number? :-) [08:09] what's* [08:09] gimme a minute to file it :) [08:15] didrocks: bug 772185 [08:15] Launchpad bug 772185 in unity "[3.8.12 regression] launcher sometimes doesn't hide when there are windows beneath it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/772185 [08:15] * pitti downgrades to confirm [08:16] didrocks: darn, this isn't a reproducer apparently; that test case also fails with 3.8.10 [08:17] pitti: seems that unity thinks your move is over the bfb [08:17] even the trigger [08:17] (the 5x5 topleft corner) [08:18] * pitti will restart session a couple of times to play with this [08:19] pitti: so yeah, to sum up, it sees there is a window under, but the mouse is over the trigger and bfb for it [08:19] hence the fact it's shown [08:19] didrocks: what is the bfb? [08:19] (and I can't reproduce) [08:19] pitti: the ubuntu logo [08:20] didrocks: not even in a guest session? [08:20] big friendly button :) [08:20] lol [08:20] let me try that, I'm generally swapping, so better to restart in a fresh session [08:20] brb [08:20] I just try on an empty ws [08:20] didrocks: it seems to clean up its state after a bit [08:21] also, it seems to go away once I open an indicator menu [08:21] ok, let me try restart, brb [08:23] pitti: interesting [08:24] pitti: it's before the first show/hide [08:24] pitti: I know why, I can fix this [08:25] didrocks: I found another and better test case which has even worse results, but it's not a regression either [08:25] so I wonder what part of my gsession script triggers the regression :/ [08:25] pitti: oh? which one? (still need the magical number from the debug output) [08:26] pitti: if you put your mouse over the bfb, all is magically reset, isn't it? [08:26] (or over the launcher even) [08:27] didrocks: no, not here; but let me upgrade to 3.8.12 again first [08:27] I even get the bubble help (for e. g. nautilus) staying around permanently [08:28] pitti: this one should be fixed in 3.8.12, there was a commit for that [08:28] right, apparently it is [08:30] didrocks: I added an alternative test case (alt+f2, gnome-terminal --maximize) [08:30] pitti: alt + F2 is also in the fresh session, isn't it? [08:31] anyway, all those issues are because the values aren't rightly initialized [08:31] so, main case, when you start a session [08:31] click on the launcher [08:32] that resets all states [08:32] I'll just give saner default first ;) [08:32] didrocks: yes [08:33] didrocks: and I confirmed it's not a regression, it just seems to be a race condition which my gsession script triggers [08:33] pitti: yeah, it's just because you automate everything and don't "click click" :-) [08:33] shouldn't be long, do you want to test that in a ppa then? [08:34] bug updated [08:34] didrocks: it's not a biggie, so no hurry; I'll be happy to test a PPA, of course [08:35] didrocks: I was just concerned that it is a regression, but it's not [08:36] thanks pitti :) [08:36] thanks to you! [08:50] morning [08:52] hey rodrigo_ [08:53] hi pitti [08:54] hey rodrigo_ [08:55] hi didrocks [09:00] pitti: ok, so it will be a very ugly workaround, not sure why compiz sent the mouse event with x/y=0:0 3 times at startup :/ [09:01] didrocks: so that's the problem? compiz sending out false coordinates when I drag the window to a different position? [09:01] pitti: no, false coordinates at startup only [09:01] pitti: so, it's the last state we register [09:01] didrocks, that looks that $DISPLAY, not a coordinate, right? [09:01] and we really believe the mouse is above the bfb [09:01] didrocks: as I said, it's not urgent at all, as it's not a regression; if we reassign it to compiz, and it takes a little longer to fix, no problem [09:02] rodrigo_: no, it's just me telling 0x0 ;) [09:02] ah [09:02] pitti: not sure we should fix that before O "the right way". Everytime we touch the small tiniest thing in compiz… [09:02] pitti: but yeah, let's workaround it for SRU 1 [09:03] didrocks: fixing in oneiric sounds fine; it doesn't seem to bite a lot of people [09:03] and it's easy to make it go away again [09:04] pitti: you are the first one to report it. The bug is there for weeks :-) [09:04] didrocks: so, oneiric then :) [09:04] pitti: but an easy workaround is still possible to "polish and finish" in a SRU 1 (no need to reset the SRU 0 timer) [09:08] hey desktopers [09:09] hey seb128 [09:09] bonjour seb128 [09:09] guten Morgen mvo [09:09] hey mvo, how are you? had a nice weekend? [09:10] weekend -> week maybe ;-) [09:10] hey pitti, how are you? [09:11] seb128: looking forward to the release! [09:11] seb128, pitti: heh :) yeah, had a *long* weekend, was pretty nice === cking_ is now known as cking [09:11] oh? I find it old news, I'm looking forward oneiric opening and landing GNOME3 :p [09:11] yipieee [09:12] mvo, did the weather turned from summer back to rain for you as well? [09:12] seb128: yeah, wonderful easter weekend, but tue, wed was rainy and windy and miserable [09:12] mvo, that's because those days were supposed to be work days ;-) [09:13] haha [09:13] I checked mail three times a day to make sure the sky is not falling, but all was good [09:13] dobey was looking for you [09:14] seems he followed my advice and changed the recommends to a depends [09:14] * Sweetshark hopes for some rain to wash away all the tree stuff that I am allergic against. [09:16] Sweetshark: there was plenty of rain yesterday here; not in Hamburg? [09:17] morning pitti seb128 and mvo! [09:17] pitti: not yet. [09:17] hey glatzor! [09:17] hey glatzor [09:18] mvo, dbus exceptions and encodings are a nightmare! [09:19] hey glatzor [09:19] glatzor: more issue :/ ? [09:20] and yeah, I agree very much with that statement! [09:20] pitti: thanks for looking at my json-glib bug, I was away for a few days but put some test code on the bug last night. [09:21] ajf_: I saw, thanks! it's verified now, so it's all good [09:21] mvo, check out revision 654. I added a show case :) [09:21] :D [09:25] mvo, the test_dbus_exception in tests/test_unicodedecoding.py will fail. The ErrorMessage in the end is taken from dbus _reply_error_method [09:25] glatzor: let me try [09:27] so seems like pitti hates unity and want to fail verification the sru? ;-) [09:28] fvwm FTW! [09:30] seb128: yeah, false regression in addition! we include bugs from the start us! :-) [09:31] ;-) [09:31] well the thing is that he really has to try with some scripts at session startup to try to find a bug [09:31] that's not even fair testing :p [09:31] just for the record I've no issue with the new unity since yesterday [09:32] seb128: well, in fact, you get it if you try to hide the launcher before putting the mouse over the bfb or launcher [09:32] but yeah, not the common case at all :) [09:32] yes, it's running quite fine here [09:33] seb128: I think pitti wants me to have a heart attack :-) [09:33] and I want to keep it that way, so I'm freaking out on possible regressions, sorry :) [09:33] pitti: no worry, nice to have feedbacks! :-) [09:34] mvo, i added some comments to the test [09:35] mvo, I am now at the point to just call repr(msg) and ignore non ascii chars at all :) [09:36] glatzor: hrm, hrm, yeah, I just played with it and it seem that whatever is done its wrong [09:36] glatzor: or double escaping them or some crazyness like this [09:37] good morning everyone [09:38] how do I become member of https://launchpad.net/~lo-menubar-team ? [09:40] hey chrisccoulson, how are you? [09:40] Sweetshark, you ask one admin of the team, i.e dbarth or maybe didrocks can do it [09:42] Sweetshark: done! :-) [09:43] hi seb128, i'm good thanks. how are you? [09:43] I'm fine thanks [09:47] didrocks: thanks! [09:47] didrocks: thanks didrocks, you beat me to that [09:48] Sweetshark: welcome to the great team of lo-menubar developers [09:49] dbarth: I just want to get the fix to bug 754562 into the branch. ;) [09:49] Launchpad bug 754562 in libreoffice "soffice.bin crashed with SIGSEGV in g_hash_table_lookup()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/754562 [09:50] * Sweetshark waves: "Hi lo-menubar devs, I am the new guy." [09:53] Hey I removed the gnome 3 ppa from my install of ubuntu and now im getting no sessions to select at login [09:54] any way I can ask gdm to readd unity to the list [09:55] like at the moment the session selection box is empty and doesnt give me any options when I click it [09:55] fagan, did you remove gnome-session* packages? [09:56] ok, need to do some errands bb in a couple of horus [09:56] rodrigo_: well gnome-session is installed I checked that first [09:56] didrocks: bug #765664 is not really a bug, right? we just removed the setting from the control center and use gdm for this now? [09:56] Launchpad bug 765664 in compiz "compiz not working after upgrade" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/765664 [09:56] mvo: exactly [09:56] fagan, which version? [09:57] rodrigo_: give me 10 secs and ill find out [09:59] rodrigo_: ok now its after getting weird, according to apt its not installed but when I say gnome-session in commandline it responds [09:59] hmm [10:00] rodrigo_: ok I think im after fixing it with apt now [10:00] ill see if it actually works though [10:00] Sweetshark: wow, there's a lot of formating changes in the patch [10:01] Sweetshark: and you've committed directly on the branch: was the code code-reviewed upstream already? [10:01] thanks didrocks [10:02] hey rodrigo_ [10:02] hi seb128 [10:02] ok worked [10:02] rodrigo_, i've assigned you another "can't delete couchdb contacts" bug but it's from 10.10 [10:03] dbarth: yes, it is quite a lot of formatting change as I upstreamed the code to LibreOffice and had to change some formatting to fit the LO code conventions (and to get a warning-free compile in the LibreOffice build). [10:03] rodrigo_, how are you today btw? ;-) [10:03] fagan, yes, I guess you told apt to remove all packages from the ppa, so I'm sure there are others you'll be missing [10:03] seb128, yes, just saw it [10:03] seb128, I'm fine, and you? :) [10:03] chrisccoulson_, do you still plan to work on bug #765736? you could perhaps assign it to you? [10:03] Launchpad bug 765736 in bamf "Thunderbird won't stay in launcher and no quicklist" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/765736 [10:03] rodrigo_: well I did a ppa-purge so it just didnt reinstall everything it seems [10:03] rodrigo_, I'm fine thanks [10:04] fagan, right, it removed all gnome3 versions, and didn't install the 2.32 one I guess [10:04] that's what ppa-purge does, right? [10:04] seb128 - i left a comment on there, i was just waiting on feedback really [10:04] dbarth: you can see the diff without most of the formatting changes at http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/libs-core/commit/?id=45799b46a56f6da88817ef768dbb8364c3bf93b5 [10:05] rodrigo_: ppa-purge is supposed to downgrade to anything in the repo and remove anything that isnt [10:05] chrisccoulson_, ok === chrisccoulson_ is now known as chrisccoulson [10:05] chrisccoulson_, I just noticed users keep commenting on it [10:05] fagan, ah, but gnome-session 2.32 has an extra package than the 3.0 version, I guess it just didn't install that extra package, so removed it [10:06] rodrigo_: probably [10:07] dbarth: although I should not have mixed in the constness changes. That was unfortunate. [10:08] mvo, by the way http://farmdev.com/talks/unicode/ [10:09] seb128, pitti: a friend of mine who works at a university is looking for projects/companies to get students from a free software degree to participate in free software projects (like google soc), so would we be interested in getting some student to help? [10:09] rodrigo_, I don't know, I think usually we don't do internship out of some special cases, maybe check with jasoncwarner rather [10:10] ok [10:11] thanks glatzor === tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter [10:18] jasoncwarner, hi [10:19] mvo, the default python Exception also doesn't accept any unicode string. that is sad [10:25] mvo, I think I found a solution. I just overwrite the get_dbus_message method in AptDaemonError to avoid the Exception.__str__ call [10:27] rodrigo_: as part of the existing community involvement for sure [10:27] rodrigo_: we have had some internships in Canonical, but I don't know the procedures there [10:27] glatzor: oh, nice idea [10:29] rodrigo_: I currently "mentor" juliank as a intern and that works great, so +1 from me for a initiative like this [10:42] mvo: you're welcome ;) [10:42] mvo: btw, I subscribed you at the oneconf blueprint secretely during your holidays! ;) [10:42] is it too late for a samba fix? [10:43] mvo: not sure it worths a session, but at least, if we can discuss that around a beer and see how we can bind it in the software center review server [10:43] there's this annoying crasher with libnss_wins.so with gethostbyname() which affects a crapton of packages [10:43] mvo, pitti, seb128: I just sent a mail to jason, so let's see what he says [10:43] rodrigo_, ok, let me know [10:44] didrocks: I saw that :) [10:44] didrocks: beer++ [10:44] mvo: excellent, let's plan that then! :-) thanks ;) [11:04] mvo, I committed the fix [11:05] * mvo HUGS glatzor [11:40] pitti: TBH, that's maybe a regression from the new nux :) [11:40] let me see the commits [11:40] didrocks, he found another bug? [11:40] seb128: no, the first one [11:40] ok [11:49] didrocks: sorry, which bug? [11:50] pitti: the launcher not wanted to hide one [11:50] didrocks: oh, I see [11:52] hum, libreoffice-writer corner grab handle behaves weirdly there sometimes [11:53] like it displays some compiz orange selection over the scrollbar and open a context menu [11:54] context menus or what looks like the file menu docked next to the dialog [11:54] quite weird [11:54] does anybody else get that? [11:57] morning everyone.... [11:58] hey jasoncwarner [11:58] how are you? [11:58] hey jasoncwarner! [11:58] hey seb128, pretty good...just trying to put the finishing touches on my talk for budapest.... [11:58] hey didrocks! morning... [11:59] jasoncwarner, what are you going to talk about there? ;-) [11:59] so how is release day going? everyone feeling pretty good? [11:59] seb128: mostly how awesome desktop team is [11:59] it does feel pretty good indeed! === mdz` is now known as mdz [11:59] feel… released! :-) [11:59] I'm still positively surprised by the unity bug reports [12:00] there is not a lot of complains and mostly small issues [12:00] jasoncwarner: as didrocks says ;) [12:00] seb128: but seriously, mostly about where ubuntu is on the path to mass adoption, what we can do better and what we will do better.... [12:00] you know..."the year of the linux desktop" ;) [12:00] never read about that one before ;-) [12:00] seb128: :) [12:00] yeah, most of complains are design choice [12:00] so no last bug "OMG" bugs ;) [12:01] I got to tell you, I love using my desktop day in and day out... [12:01] hey jasoncwarner [12:01] * pitti toddles off for lunch, bbl [12:01] I think the generic answer for "the year of the linux desktop" is "next year", that always work :-) [12:01] pitti, have fun [12:01] hum, lunch... [12:01] (still, I did choose to use faenza icons... don't shoot me!) [12:01] I should start looking in the fridge for something to eat [12:01] jasoncwarner, how dare you!? ;-) [12:02] (I'm pondering going back to classic scrollbars for my part, the new ones are hard to use on screen borders) [12:02] jasoncwarner: and "comic sans serif" for the font? [12:02] they go so well in the launcher! It's like they were designed that way ;) [12:02] didrocks: oh man, that's low [12:02] :-) [12:03] coudln't resist, sorry ;) [12:03] well, after what you guys did this cycle, I can take as much ribbing as you guys want to dish out... ;) [12:03] heh [12:06] There is nothing that starts a flamewar as easy as linux desktop themes (well, except "vi vs. emacs" and "lets have ribbon toolbars in LibreOffice") [12:07] Sweetshark: I'm going to stop writing my email to you right now then... [12:07] * jasoncwarner deletes email about ribbon toolbars...makes note [12:07] hehe [12:07] jasoncwarner: Flamewars are not always a bad thing though ;) [12:08] true... === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [12:08] I was joking about ribbon toolbars...I just want _less_ toolbars ;) too much choice is a bad thing at times! [12:10] jasoncwarner: very true. [12:14] jasoncwarner, those faenza icons are pretty nice. i just installed them here :) [12:22] jasoncwarner, toolbars are nice for common actions though, especially when you menus are at the other side of the screen [12:22] your [12:25] chrisccoulson: ok, you do that? I'm switching to chromium [12:25] oh… wait! :-) [12:25] lol [12:26] didrocks, you should be switching to epiphany [12:26] chrisccoulson: heh, I'm considering lynx. I heard good things of it with nvidia + launchpad :-) [12:27] didrocks, well, i already decided on lynx for the default browser for next cycle [12:27] after all, it's pretty feature stable, and users like that [12:27] chrisccoulson: +1, no need for sessino then? :-) [12:27] session* [12:27] indeed :) [12:28] micahg, there we go - default browser is decided. we can cancel the session now ;) [12:28] then mutt for the email client [12:28] lol [12:28] and let's start on tty1 [12:28] fast boot, no driver issue… [12:28] that would be awesome [12:28] right! :-) [12:43] yeah, natty is out \o/ [12:43] well done everybody, great milestone ;-) [12:46] * Sweetshark thinks lynx has way too much chrome and proposes netcat as default browser. [12:50] it's a shame we're all spread out so far, else i would suggest it is time to go for a beer now [12:51] hum; beer! [12:51] tea! [12:51] 10 days :-) [12:51]