[01:04] <Captainkrtek> hello
[01:04] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, i submitted my doc to the mailing list
[01:09] <jbicha> Captainkrtek: yes I saw it but didn't quite get to it yet
[01:09] <Captainkrtek> okay :)
[01:09] <jbicha> too busy playing with other bugs
[01:10] <jbicha> Captainkrtek: you don't do HTML/CSS, do you?
[01:10] <Captainkrtek> ehh notreally
[01:10] <Captainkrtek> but i know an expert who could help
[01:26] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, what is more urgent to do, stubs or outdated?
[01:26] <Captainkrtek> outdated I would guess...
[01:31] <jbicha> outdated definitely
[01:31] <Captainkrtek> okay cool
[01:31] <Captainkrtek> ill see if I can get some other stuff added
[01:32] <Captainkrtek>  / fixed
[01:32] <jbicha> let me know which you decide to work on please
[01:32] <Captainkrtek> okay
[01:32] <Captainkrtek> or if you want to assign anything to me
[01:32] <Captainkrtek> :)
[01:32] <jbicha> yeah that might be better too
[01:33] <jbicha> did you figure out the check_status script?
[01:34] <Captainkrtek> havent fiddled with it much, what does it do? check files if they are under review or something?
[01:35] <jbicha> prints a list of .page's by revision status
[01:35] <Captainkrtek> oooh cool
[01:35] <Captainkrtek> also, if we need more scripts made. I know a little bit of bash scripting
[01:37] <jbicha> files-share needs updating
[01:37] <Captainkrtek> k
[01:37] <Captainkrtek> ill take a look at that right now
[01:38] <Captainkrtek> just used check_status, pretty useful script!
[01:38] <jbicha> fallback-mode could be rewritten to talk a little about Ubuntu Classic fallback I suppose
[01:38] <Captainkrtek> okay
[01:38] <Captainkrtek> ill check out share first
[01:39] <Captainkrtek> can't you assign files to someone on launchpad? if so, load em up on my page :) https://launchpad.net/~steven.richards
[01:39] <jbicha> and the shell- pages also need to be looked at
[01:39] <Captainkrtek> okay
[01:39] <jbicha> no, files can't be assigned just bugs
[01:40] <jbicha> so whichever ones you can do is good
[01:40] <Captainkrtek> okay
[01:40] <Captainkrtek> hehe looking at file-share date="2011-04-06" status="outdated"
[01:40] <Captainkrtek> oh wait
[01:40] <Captainkrtek> read that backwards, thought the year was 06
[01:49] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, when editing an outdated article what do I do for the credit, replace the author?
[01:50] <jbicha> no, that's attribution and needs to stay
[01:50] <jbicha> if I only do very minor changes I don't even add another credit
[01:50] <jbicha> but if we're rewriting it, I add the Ubuntu Documentation Team credit
[01:52] <jbicha> if you write a page all yourself, crediting yourself is probably good too
[01:53] <Captainkrtek> okay
[01:53] <Captainkrtek> so ill just leave it
[01:53] <Captainkrtek> looking at the net-email-virus page
[01:55] <jbicha> the net- pages should be pretty good, we just need someone to check them and mark them final
[01:56] <Captainkrtek> okay
[01:56] <Captainkrtek> Im also just cleaning some of em up
[01:56] <Captainkrtek> rewording and such
[01:58] <jbicha> it's the network menu on the top panel
[01:58] <jbicha> to match the wording we're using elsewhere
[02:01] <Captainkrtek> okay
[02:01] <Captainkrtek> saw some emails today, renaming the top panel to menu bar? or something like that
[02:19] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, is the credit type of "editor" used?
[02:19] <jbicha> I think we're waiting for 11.10 to change it to menu bar
[02:21] <jbicha> no, we haven't used editor yet
[02:21] <Captainkrtek> k
[02:21] <Captainkrtek> I made some big changes to an article
[02:22] <Captainkrtek> just add <credit> for me as author?
[02:22] <Captainkrtek> or the team
[02:22] <jbicha> hmm, I think I'm going to need to reinstall Ubuntu, running out of space on my /home partition with all this code I'm checking out these days
[02:22] <Captainkrtek> heh
[02:22] <Captainkrtek> need a server to offload some data? I have a nice dedicated box, I could open a shell for you :)
[02:24] <jbicha> I think I'll be ok, there's a few different computers in my house
[02:24] <Captainkrtek> okay
[02:24] <Captainkrtek> but if you need a few gigs or more of space for files, let me know!
[02:25] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, so I just finished reading/editing/re-writing a doc, change status to review?
[02:26] <jbicha> yes
[02:26] <Captainkrtek> k
[02:26] <Captainkrtek> check the mailing list shortly :)
[02:27] <Captainkrtek> what about commit messages, anything style wise I should follow? or just state what ive done
[02:30] <jbicha> we're not too picky, you can look at our commit log if you want style ideas
[02:30] <Captainkrtek> kk
[02:30] <Captainkrtek> gonna look at some more outdated files
[02:30] <Captainkrtek> ill submit a batch
[02:48] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, how do you do a bulleted list in mallard? can't find it on the project mallard site
[02:49] <Captainkrtek> oh nevermind
[03:10] <Captainkrtek> just wrote up net-security :)
[03:12] <jbicha> um....
[03:12] <jbicha> that's not supposed to be written up
[03:12] <Captainkrtek> oh...
[03:12] <Captainkrtek> well I wrote a sub-article for it
[03:12] <Captainkrtek> "staying safe on the internet"
[03:13] <jbicha> well, maybe
[03:13] <Captainkrtek> it's pretty good in my opinion
[03:14] <Captainkrtek> let me pastebin it
[03:15] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, http://pastebin.com/URQehmaZ
[03:20] <jbicha> you left out the final </p></item>
[03:20] <Captainkrtek> oh whoops!
[03:20] <Captainkrtek> but what do you think overall, content wise?
[03:21] <jbicha> you could ask someone else, but I prefer that page to be a guide page
[03:22] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[03:22] <Captainkrtek> I see what you mean
[03:22] <Captainkrtek> so maybe like
[03:22] <jbicha> if you think there's a topic that's not covered, you could write a separate topic page
[03:22] <Captainkrtek> net-security-tips
[03:22] <Captainkrtek> ?
[03:24] <jbicha> the scope might be too broad for just 1 page
[03:24] <jbicha> and you'd want to try to get into gnome too
[03:24] <Captainkrtek> really? just thinkings a few pointers, with links to other guides
[03:24] <Captainkrtek> hmmm
[03:24] <Captainkrtek> im just covering general practices
[03:24] <Captainkrtek> not very centric on unity or gnome
[03:25] <jbicha> your 4 bullets at the top aren't defined
[03:25] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[03:25] <Captainkrtek> true
[03:25] <Captainkrtek> I can think of a few articles to link to
[03:25] <jbicha> did you know Gnome docs has its own IRC channel?
[03:26] <Captainkrtek> No I did not
[03:26] <jbicha> Gnome uses its own server, irc.gnome.org and it's #docs
[03:26] <Captainkrtek> okay cool
[03:26] <jbicha> but it's a lot of the same people actually :-)
[03:26] <Captainkrtek> hehe, wonder why ;-)
[03:27] <jbicha> they use git and are probably more interested in some of these new topic ideas you have
[03:27] <Captainkrtek> okay
[03:27] <jbicha> and since we pull from them, it gets into Ubuntu too but also into Fedora, etc.
[03:27] <Captainkrtek> ahh
[03:28] <Captainkrtek> cool
[03:28] <Captainkrtek> let me continue writing this page and see where I take it
[03:28] <jbicha> ok
[03:28] <jbicha> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-user-docs/
[03:28] <Captainkrtek> linking to other pages
[03:31] <Captainkrtek> I found a place for it in our docs
[03:31] <Captainkrtek> what about Networking terms & tips
[03:33] <Captainkrtek> I think it'd fit well in there
[03:49] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, can you pastebin your net-security page? I need to undo my changes heh
[03:49] <Captainkrtek> don't feel like uncommitting
[04:01] <jbicha> just do bzr revert net-security.page
[04:01] <jbicha> you can revert individual pages
[04:01] <jbicha> or what's your question again?
[04:33] <Captainkrtek> weird
[04:33] <Captainkrtek> oh hold on
[04:33] <Captainkrtek> ignore me :P
[04:45] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, check your email
[04:45] <Captainkrtek> just submitted a few changes
[04:47] <Captainkrtek> hello jjesse & JasonO
[04:48] <JasonO> Hi Captainkrtek
[04:48] <Captainkrtek> You know much about bzr?
[04:50] <JasonO> It depends on what.
[04:50] <JasonO> I do.
[04:51] <Captainkrtek> Well I made a new document and it showed up in the commit as Unknown: filename.blah and then didn't appear in the diffname.txt
[04:51] <Captainkrtek> do I need to add it somewhere?
[04:51] <JasonO> What branch is this?
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> gnome-docs
[04:52] <Captainkrtek>  /C
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> unknown:
[04:52] <Captainkrtek>   gnome-help/C/diffname.txt
[04:52] <Captainkrtek>   gnome-help/C/net-security-tips.page
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> ignore the diffname.txt
[04:52] <Captainkrtek> err not gnome-docs , gnome-help
[04:53] <jbicha> yes, that means you didn't do bzr add nameoffile
[04:53] <Captainkrtek> ahh
[04:53] <Captainkrtek> okay thanks :)
[04:54] <JasonO> Captainkrtek Glad you got that answerd because I was trying to figure out whether ...blah was made on purpose by you.
[04:54] <Captainkrtek> ?
[04:55] <Captainkrtek> I feel bad that I keep sending two emails for each thing
[04:55] <Captainkrtek> forgot to check the diffname.txt for the new page I added :/
[04:55] <jbicha> Captainkrtek: I'm not sure the virus page needs all those changes
[04:57] <jbicha> please don't change the indenting unless you need to
[04:57] <Captainkrtek> okay
[04:57] <Captainkrtek> last night you said no indenting
[04:57] <jbicha> it makes it more difficult to see what has actually changed
[04:57] <Captainkrtek> so I wasn't sure
[04:57] <Captainkrtek> :/
[04:57] <jbicha> no, I said no tabs, use spaces
[04:57] <Captainkrtek> oh
[04:58] <Captainkrtek> feel like im making a mess of all this :(
[04:58] <jbicha> nah, it's ok, it's just a bit more effort to figure out how we can merge this
[04:58] <Captainkrtek> so should I submit this: http://pastebin.com/2Hd8tPwb
[04:59] <Captainkrtek> that diffname?
[04:59] <jbicha> you can always mv your current branch and make a new bzr branch to have a clean branch
[04:59] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[04:59] <Captainkrtek> was considering that
[04:59] <jbicha> and then copy in the changes you've made
[04:59] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[04:59] <jbicha> that might make more sense to you than bzr uncommit and revert
[05:00] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[05:00] <Captainkrtek> I guess I'll go ahead and do that
[05:00] <Captainkrtek> what about the display-2monitors.page?
[05:00] <Captainkrtek> that patch okay?
[05:03] <jbicha> I'm a bit uncomfortable reviewing the 2monitors page as I don't have 2 monitors hooked up to test it
[05:03] <Captainkrtek> I tested it
[05:03] <Captainkrtek> but I guess you have to review it as well
[05:06] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, okay Ill go back and fix all my stuff
[05:06] <Captainkrtek> re-pull the repo
[05:09] <jbicha> when you paste your diffs, try setting syntax to diff like http://paste.ubuntu.com/600129/
[05:10] <Captainkrtek> okay
[05:11] <jbicha> your change to clock-timezone is good, I've been setting today's date for the revision but I have no idea if that matters
[05:11] <jbicha> your change to virus is difficult to read as you changed too many lines
[05:11] <Captainkrtek> I dont know if it does either
[05:11] <Captainkrtek> sorry :/
[05:11] <Captainkrtek> the guy who wrote it before had some things I disagreed with
[05:11] <Captainkrtek> like definitions and certain wording
[05:12] <jbicha> the title should generally be sentence case, so "Do I need to scan my email for viruses?" is ok
[05:12] <Captainkrtek> I dont think I changed that title
[05:12] <Captainkrtek> gm
[05:13] <jbicha> so I see some changes to make things clearer or fix grammar there
[05:13] <Captainkrtek> in the email one?
[05:14] <jbicha> but the more changes we make, the greater challenge to keep it in sync with Gnome
[05:14] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[05:14] <Captainkrtek> complex business heh
[05:14] <Captainkrtek> sorry for making more work for you
[05:16] <jbicha> j1mc: hi!
[05:16] <Captainkrtek> hello j1mc
[05:22] <j1mc> hi jbicha
[05:22] <j1mc> hey Captainkrtek
[05:24] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, so I fixed my new page the security tips one in the new clean branch, should I just drop the email-virus doc?
[05:28] <jbicha> I see 3 good changes in the virus page: change "causes" to "cause" in the first line
[05:28] <jbicha> take out "quite" from the second paragraph, and mark as final
[05:29] <Captainkrtek> k
[05:29] <Captainkrtek> and the display page?
[05:30] <jbicha> I'd rather someone else look at the 2monitor page
[05:31] <Captainkrtek> so don't submit that change?
[05:31] <Captainkrtek> im positive about it, I use 2 displays and tested it, but you need someone to review...
[05:31] <jbicha> if you can submit it as a separate diff that would be good
[05:31] <Captainkrtek> k
[05:31] <jbicha> but you basically already did that, right?
[05:31] <Captainkrtek> yeah
[05:32] <Captainkrtek> check for spam folder for my diffs ;-)
[05:34] <Captainkrtek> so submit the net-security-tips and make the few changes to email-virus
[05:39] <jbicha> you need to figure out some way to manage the titles
[05:39] <Captainkrtek> what do you mean?
[05:39] <jbicha> you're proposing "Staying safe on the Internet" when there is already another page called "Keeping safe on the Internet"
[05:40] <Captainkrtek> oh there is...
[05:40] <Captainkrtek> where is it?
[05:41] <jbicha> net-security which your page should be a topic page of
[05:42] <Captainkrtek> hmmm
[05:42] <Captainkrtek> so ill do a sub page of that
[05:42] <Captainkrtek> like tips
[05:42] <Captainkrtek> or something
[05:43] <jbicha> yup, and go ahead and add some indentation too :-)
[05:43] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, how about: <title>Tips for safe internet use</title>
[05:43] <Captainkrtek> I did :)
[05:43] <j1mc> Captainkrtek: would be good to plan it out a bit better than that.  : )
[05:43] <Captainkrtek> heh
[05:43] <Captainkrtek> j1mc, im new here :P
[05:44] <j1mc> Captainkrtek: i understand... but maybe outline it and send it to the ML first. see if it fits in.
[05:44] <j1mc> get some feedback and save some time
[05:44] <Captainkrtek> ML? sorry don't know the acronyms
[05:45] <jbicha> mailing list
[05:45] <Captainkrtek> oh
[05:45] <Captainkrtek> I have been
[05:45] <Captainkrtek> so just send http://paste.ubuntu.com/600133/ in the ML?
[05:49] <j1mc> Captainkrtek: good question. that would be fine for now.
[05:49] <Captainkrtek> k
[05:49] <j1mc> i would attach it as a text file
[05:49] <j1mc> to your message to the mailing list
[05:49] <Captainkrtek> k
[05:49] <Captainkrtek> like attach the .page?
[05:49] <j1mc> yes, that would be good.
[05:50] <Captainkrtek> also
[05:50] <Captainkrtek> I have the change for the email-virus
[05:50] <Captainkrtek> those 3 little things
[05:50] <Captainkrtek> add the diffname for that?
[05:50] <Captainkrtek> and just bzr remove net-security-tips for now
[05:50] <j1mc> if the email-virus page already exists in the ubuntu docs, then attaching a diff is ok
[05:50] <Captainkrtek> k
[05:51] <j1mc> if it's a new page, then ... probably the whole page is ok.
[05:51] <Captainkrtek> okay thanks :)
[05:51] <Captainkrtek> you'll see an email in a minute
[05:55] <Captainkrtek> trying to bzr bundle...
[05:55] <Captainkrtek> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
[06:02] <Captainkrtek> nevermind
[06:04] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, sent it off, hope everyone doesn't hate me heh
[07:18] <Captainkrtek> hey
[07:18] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, thanks for your patience and help, hope I haven't been too much of a pain
[07:19] <jbicha> ah, np, we need all the contributors we can get! :-)
[07:19] <Captainkrtek> I think im getting the hang of things
[07:20] <Captainkrtek> you get a chance to look at my latest message to the ML?
[07:21] <jbicha> bzr pull
[07:21] <Captainkrtek> then I need to reboot to do that haha
[07:22] <Captainkrtek> In windows working on a powerpoint for Samsung
[07:22] <jbicha> we're not sure about the net-security one yet
[07:22] <Captainkrtek> okay
[07:22] <jbicha> no need to reboot
[07:22] <Captainkrtek> what'd you patch? the email?
[07:22] <jbicha> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/natty/revision/1521
[07:23] <Captainkrtek> ahh cool :)
[07:23] <Captainkrtek> what are karma points in Launchpad?
[07:24] <jbicha> nothing :-)
[07:24] <Captainkrtek> well I have 3 haha
[07:24] <Captainkrtek> 3 nothings
[07:25] <jbicha> https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/Karma
[07:26] <jbicha> it's possible to cheat and have a high karma without doing useful work
[07:26] <Captainkrtek> so how do the points get added?
[07:26] <jbicha> but it is sorta useful
[07:26] <Captainkrtek> if Im only submitting my stuff via the ML?
[07:27] <Captainkrtek> or do you have the power to add them or something
[07:28] <jbicha> because you did a bzr bundle and I did a bzr merge, bzr knows that you submitted code
[07:28] <jbicha> so you get some points
[07:28] <Captainkrtek> ahh cool :)
[07:28] <jbicha> I don't know how many points get awarded for what activity though
[07:29] <Captainkrtek> Well I'll get back to work! earning those points
[07:29] <Captainkrtek> what are your plans with the 2display doc
[07:29] <jbicha> my plan is for you to find someone to review it :-)
[07:29] <Captainkrtek> I can
[07:30] <Captainkrtek> but you'd need someone at your ranking to review it, right?
[07:30] <jbicha> see if someone else on the team has 2 monitors
[07:30] <Captainkrtek> okay
[07:31] <jbicha> only committers can commit it but others can review
[07:31] <Captainkrtek> ahh
[07:31] <Captainkrtek> ill send an email on the ml
[07:32] <Captainkrtek> sent
[07:33] <Captainkrtek> This is my first time doing anything in the Ubuntu community, glad I can be of some help :-)
[07:58] <Captainkrtek> hello dpm
[07:59] <dpm> hi Captainkrtek
[08:38] <mdke> hey dpm
[08:42] <mdke> dpm: what's your view from a translation point of view of moving to an upstream project rather than the ubuntu package on Launchpad? I'm slowing realising that it would give us quite a lot more flexibility and control. I've always resisted it in the past because it seems dispersive, so I'd like your thoughts
[08:42] <dpm> hey mdke, I was just replying to your e-mail on Oneiric objectives about that :)
[08:44] <dpm> mdke, the good news is that it will not be necessary to move any of the infrastructure: now that the message sharing across source packages and upstream projects in Launchpad is nearly ready, it will only be necessary to activate translations in the ubuntu-docs upstream project, mark them as shared with the ubuntu-docs source package and then the translations from Ubuntu will flow into the upstream project
[08:44] <dpm> then you can also benefit from automatic imports (i.e. commit a template and get it automatically exposed in LP)
[08:45] <dpm> and automatic exports (i.e. get translations automatically -daily- committed to a branch of your choice)
[08:48] <mdke> that's interesting
[08:49] <mdke> do you think it's appropriate to activate translations in the upstream project though?
[08:49] <mdke> I know other ubuntu developed projects do it, and the translators don't seem to mind, but it means them keeping on top of where everything is happening
[08:49] <mdke> oh, translations flow from ubuntu to upstream?
[08:50] <mdke> that's excellent
[08:50] <mdke> but I guess the pot templates don't flow from upstream to ubuntu
[08:50] <mdke> so translators would still need to look at the upstream project for new strings
[08:54] <dpm> mdke, I think it makes sense to activate them. In the case of other projects, it might make more sense in some cases: i.e. the synaptic LP upstream project is not only used in Ubuntu, but also in e.g. Debian and it exposes translations. Then the synaptic source package also exposes translations, and allows for having different strings than upstream. In the case of the ubuntu-docs project, it would not make much difference, as it is clearly an Ubuntu-only
[08:54] <dpm> project. Perhaps you could make the upstream translations read-only by setting the permissions to Closed, but I'd have to check out if that would prevent downstream translations from flowing in. As per the other questions:
[08:56] <dpm> no, the pot templates don't flow from upstream to Ubuntu. In the upstream project, if you use automatic imports you just need to commit them and they'll appear in LP. In the Ubuntu source package, you'll simply need to keep the current method: generating a pot template upon package build
[08:57] <mdke> the problem we have is that we don't/can't upload all the time. Especially after the release, it would help to be able to expose new strings immediately to translators without making an upload
[08:57] <mdke> that would mean we wouldn't mark the upstream project as read-only, but rather ask translators to work there by default and not in ubuntu
[08:59] <dpm> mdke, but even in the case where there hasn't been an update of the pot file in the source package for a while, as long as the upstream has an up to date pot template, if translators do their work in upstream, the translations will still be shared in the upstream -> downstream direction, and as soon as the ubuntu source package's pot file gets updated, LP will use the translations from upstream to fill the 'new' strings in the downstream ubuntu source pac
[08:59] <dpm> kage
[09:00] <dpm> the translations are there all of the time in the database, as they are marked as shared
[09:01] <dpm> it's only that when updating the downstream pot file, if they've been translated upstream, they will be made visible, or 'active'
[09:02] <mdke> that doesn't matter. We would import the translations from upstream in the bzr branch and so they would be included in the upload already
[09:02] <mdke> it sounds a cool system
[09:02] <mdke> as long as the translators are prepared to work in the upstream place, which is what gave me some concerns
[09:03] <dpm> yeah, but even if they aren't, assuming that the downstream POT file is up to date by string freeze, they can just work in the source package in the same way they do today, and the upstream branch will get the translations, which is quite cool :)
[09:04] <mdke> yes, that would work, although then they are potentially working in two places
[09:05] <mdke> well, as long as you are happy with the idea, I'm happy with it too
[09:06] <mdke> ok, i'm really late for work :) See ya
[09:06] <dpm> there are still a couple of open questions, as I've still not been able to road test the feature yet. It will be activated very soon after review. Perhaps we can then have a quick chat after that, enable it and give it a good test?
[09:07] <dpm> ok, yeah, using message sharing seems the way to go for me
[09:07] <dpm> see ya!
[09:23] <jbicha> mdke: is the build directory important? because I was going to add it .bzrignore
[09:53] <peppe84> !paste
[09:53] <ubot2> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
[09:54] <peppe84> I have run a test to build gnome-user-doc/natty Building works but I receive this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/600196/
[10:04] <jbicha> peppe84: yes I get those errors too but it works
[10:06] <peppe84> Hi. Yes I see that works fine. maybe any title in home page are missing? http://imagebin.org/150579
[10:11] <jbicha> has the build finished? because the titles are supposed to show
[10:11] <peppe84> yes
[10:12] <peppe84> I have finish to build with make gnone-help, then I have open with firefox /build/index.html
[15:24] <shaunm> j1mc: hey
[15:26] <shaunm> can somebody running unity run the following command and pastebin the results please:
[15:26] <shaunm> gdbus call --session -d org.freedesktop.DBus -o /org/freedesktop/DBus -m org.freedesktop.DBus.ListNames
[15:27] <shaunm> also, if anybody is running unity-2d, I'd like the results there too
[15:29] <peppe84> !paste
[15:29] <ubot2> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
[15:30] <peppe84> here you hare shaunm http://paste.ubuntu.com/600296/ this is about unity
[15:33] <shaunm> peppe84: thanks! that has exactly what I hoped it would
[15:34] <peppe84> oh good :-D
[15:34] <shaunm> specifically, com.canonical.Unity
[16:41] <j1mc> shaunm: sorry, i had opened irc, but wasn't looking at it
[16:42] <shaunm> j1mc: it's cool. peppe84 helped me
[16:43]  * shaunm needs a direct wire into j1mc's brain
[16:44] <shaunm> j1mc: although if you happen to have xfce running on your machine, I wouldn't mind seeing the dbus services running
[16:44] <shaunm> don't know how much you run xfce these days
[16:52] <j1mc> hehe
[16:52] <j1mc> i don't have it installed, but could run it in a vm
[16:52] <j1mc> s/it/xfce
[16:53] <j1mc> better yet... let me just ask a xubuntu user
[16:56] <j1mc> shaunm: http://pastebin.com/VjAEfKs3
[16:56] <j1mc> Xfce 4.8 on Xubuntu ^^
[16:58] <shaunm> hah, I read that at first as "could run it in vim"
[16:58] <shaunm> and thought "shit, I don't even think emacs could do that"
[16:58] <j1mc> hehe
[16:59] <shaunm> org.xfce.Panel or org.xfce.SessionManager are probably what I want
[17:00] <shaunm> god I love dbus
[17:00] <j1mc> haha
[17:01] <j1mc> shaunm: regarding kyle's wish to have this in some sort of dconf or gconf key. i wonder why that is necessary for him.
[17:01] <j1mc> i think he works with oems
[17:02] <j1mc> and would perhaps want some kind of way of setting that value himself
[17:02] <shaunm> yeah, and canonical does customized systems for them, I think
[17:03] <shaunm> but it's like there's this house, and I'm not allowed in, and the windows are all glass block so I can't really see anything inside
[17:03] <shaunm> and I'm being asked to create the furniture
[17:03] <j1mc> yeah
[17:03] <j1mc> well, do you mean with it being canonical-sekrit-oem stuff, or do you mean guessing the session?
[17:03] <shaunm> sekrit stuff
[17:04] <shaunm> I can see everything you guys are doing with stock unity stuff. I can design for that
[17:04] <j1mc> yeah, he is a downstream of even ubuntu docs, but his needs aren't clear to me.
[17:06] <j1mc> robert ancel is working on 'lightdm' - a replacement for gdm. it's his own project, and although he works for canonical, it is not under the canonical contributor agreement.
[17:06] <shaunm> so I believe I can reliably discern between gnome-shell, gnome-panel, unity, and xfce
[17:06] <j1mc> i wonder if we could talk with him about this issue
[17:06] <shaunm> and I think the dbus checks are the best way to handle this
[17:07] <j1mc> if lightdm were able to set a key in dconf or gconf, then yelp could pick up on that.  i suppose you'd have to be running lightdm, though.
[17:07] <shaunm> and I'm certain I could get kde with just another dbus check
[17:07] <j1mc> not sure other distros would pick up on it so quickly
[17:07] <shaunm> if that were the best way, I could push for it in gdm
[17:07] <shaunm> I think it's very unlikely that gnome will move to lightdm
[17:07] <j1mc> yeah
[17:08] <shaunm> it seems to me like lightdm is mostly a reaction against the fact that gdm runs a full gnome session
[17:08] <shaunm> and gdm does that on purpose for very good reasons
[17:08] <j1mc> i think so, too.  /me looks at orca
[17:09]  * j1mc looks at keyboard settings
[17:09] <shaunm> yes, exactly. and you could special-case hack in support for one assistive tech or another, I'm sure
[17:10] <shaunm> but a mistake people make is assuming that the ATs we ship are the end-all of a11y
[17:10] <shaunm> they're a slice of the pie. there are tons of third-party ATs that serve specialized needs
[17:12] <shaunm> anyway, I'm going to try this dbus stuff. I first want to do some tests to make sure the dbus calls don't hurt startup time with roundtrips though
[17:12] <j1mc> ok
[19:59]  * Pici waves
[19:59] <Pici> Could someone with the ability to modify help.u.c add the Natty MD5SUMS to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes ?
[20:03] <jbicha> Pici: but anybody can edit that, just login with your Ubuntu One/Launchpad account
[20:06] <Pici> jbicha: I think that page is special, I am logged in and the editing options thing doesnt have the usual links
[20:07] <jbicha> Pici: but anybody can edit that, just login with your Ubuntu One/Launchpad account
[20:08] <Pici> jbicha: I think that page is special, I am logged in and the editing options thing doesnt have the usual links
[20:09] <jbicha> Pici: ah, you're right, unfortunately I don't have access either
[20:09] <jbicha> somebody will get to it today though
[20:48] <mdke_> jbicha: jbicha what's the effect of .bzrignore?
[20:49] <jbicha> bzr status won't show any of the files listed there
[20:49] <jbicha> I like bzr status to be clean
[20:50] <mdke_> jbicha: that's fine, although you shouldn't normally have files there when running bzr status I guess
[20:51] <jbicha> do we even want an empty build/ directory in our repo?
[20:58] <mdke_> jbicha: maybe not. I'll have a look at reorganising it later
[20:58] <jbicha> I tried changing the html font to Ubuntu and it looked horrible
[20:59] <mdke_> we'll need to work on things like that later, when we try to make the site consistent with the other Ubuntu websites using the new branding
[21:00] <mdke_> it shouldn't be too difficult but it is definitely an Oneiric task rather than a Natty one.
[21:00] <mdke_> if you have any ideas how to fix the failure of the page to centre, I'd be grateful though - that is what I haven't yet figure out...
[21:00]  * mdke_ going out for a bit
[21:00] <mdke_> Pici: done
[21:01] <Pici> mdke_: thanks.
[21:05]  * mdke decided not to go out after all
[21:05] <mdke> jbicha: I will plan an upload to natty-proposed some time this weekend with the new material
[21:05] <jbicha> ok, good to hear
[21:06] <jbicha> mdke: it looks like the 9.04 and 9.10 hashes are obsolete now
[21:07] <mdke> do you think it is realistic to plan to do a hard string freeze in a couple of weeks?
[21:07] <mdke> jbicha: ok, I'll remove them
[21:08] <mdke> hang on, why are they obsolete?
[21:10] <jbicha> mdke: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases they are EOL
[21:15] <jbicha> oh, wow, it looks like uploads are already popping up in Oneiric
[21:17] <mdke> jbicha: ah, ok. Guess we nuke 9.10 from help.u.c then too
[21:18] <mdke> omg I can switch channels in irssi using alt and arrow keys. Where has that been all my life?
[21:22] <jbicha> ooh, alt-q through alt-o switches to windows 10-19
[21:22] <jbicha> I didn't see that shortcut earlier
[21:22] <mdke> :)
[21:31] <mdke> shaunm: I think that yelp-build is adding some css that isn't in my html.css.custom template, for example "max-width: 73em;" in the body tag. Can I workaround that?
[21:32] <mdke> oh hmm, I have two body entries in my css file, one from the template, one appearing by magic
[21:41] <shaunm> mdke: well, it will add all the default css. you just have to override everything it does in css.custom
[21:41] <shaunm> or, if you're feeling adventurous, override css.content completely. but you're going to have to be very careful about your upgrade path if you do that
[21:42] <mdke> shaunm: ah, it's from html.css.core
[21:45] <mdke> shaunm: so if I use html.css.custom, will that override material in html.css.core?
[21:46] <mdke> doesn't seem to be so far, it's adding both
[21:49] <shaunm> it adds both to the output. but css in css.custom will take precedence in the browser
[21:50] <mdke> shaunm: i see, so i just need to try and override everything. heavy
[21:51] <shaunm> well, yeah. I mean, you don't have to override what you're happy with
[21:52] <shaunm> it would probably be possible to parameterize all the output. have a param for common margin sizes, font scales, etc
[21:53] <shaunm> but that can get really messy. I might attempt it if I have a really good sense of exactly what people are customizing
[21:54] <shaunm> the alternative approach is that yelp-xsl has minimal css, and you have to do everything yourself. that's basically the docbook-xsl approach
[21:54] <shaunm> and it's a fine approach. it has its advantages. but I decided I'd rather just have something that gives you pretty nice results by default
[21:54] <shaunm> because most people don't customize
[21:54] <mdke> what seems to be causing the problem here is the max-width thing in <body>
[21:55]  * mdke goes to look it up
[21:56] <shaunm> I removed that, as well as positive:relative
[21:56] <mdke> ok, cool
[21:56] <shaunm> because it caused problems when I was doing the customization I sent to the list
[21:57] <mdke> if I set that to 100% then it looks like it should :)
[21:58] <mdke> ok, that has solved my problems, thanks shaunm
[21:59] <mdke> now to figure out where the breadcrumbs have gone
[22:01] <shaunm> did you override the match for html.page.header.mode?
[22:02] <mdke> shaunm: not knowingly...
[22:10] <mdke> shaunm: yes, I did. Got it back, thanks
[22:31] <mdke> ok, that's the xsl more or less sorted
[22:31] <j1mc> thanks, mdke
[22:38] <mdke> j1mc: feel free to give the html a try and file bugs or patch directly
[22:39]  * j1mc goes to update my branch
[22:44] <j1mc> mdke: what commands do you run to run a test-build of the html?
[22:46] <j1mc> nm i found some instructions
[22:59] <mdke> j1mc: make gnome-help (from the libs directory)
[23:07] <Captainkrtek> anyone here have a second monitor?
[23:10] <Rocket2DMn> yes but i dont have natty installed
[23:10] <Rocket2DMn> sorry
[23:10] <Captainkrtek> okay
[23:10] <Captainkrtek> I wrote a doc on 2displays setup, I can verify it myself in natty but we need a second person to approve it
[23:16] <mdke> j1mc: index.html doesn't seem to be working properly with the mouseover images, I've obviously screwed something up there
[23:16] <Captainkrtek> mdke, what's up?
[23:17] <Rocket2DMn> Captainkrtek, i saw your emails.  I might be able to test out the directions this weekend if i do a livecd boot
[23:17] <Captainkrtek> okay thanks
[23:17] <Captainkrtek> once you do can you reply to the email and @mention jbicha
[23:17] <mdke> Captainkrtek: I'm working on the tools for building the gnome-user-docs to html
[23:18] <Captainkrtek> mdke, ahh cool
[23:18] <Rocket2DMn> ahh so natty has been officially released now
[23:18] <mdke> yes
[23:18] <Rocket2DMn> we're officially behind schedule then :)
[23:18] <Captainkrtek> Rocket2DMn, yeah, you should dist-upgrade
[23:19] <Rocket2DMn> im still on lucid on my desktopi
[23:19] <Captainkrtek> heh
[23:19] <Rocket2DMn> im thinking of doing a completely fresh install of natty 64 bit with ext4
[23:19] <Captainkrtek> nice!
[23:19] <Captainkrtek> Im running that
[23:19] <Captainkrtek> but mine is an upgrade
[23:19] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: we're always behind schedule :(
[23:20] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, yeah, such is the nature of documentation, not that it's much of an excuse though
[23:20] <jbicha> Rocket2DMn: maybe btrfs will be usable in 11.10
[23:20] <Captainkrtek> hey jbicha :-)
[23:20] <Captainkrtek> no reply yet to my new doc addition :/
[23:22] <Rocket2DMn> jbicha, i try not to do anything too crazy on my desktop, this is the one system that jus thas to work
[23:28] <j1mc> mdke: yeah, i noticed that
[23:29] <mdke> j1mc: I will appeal to the mailing list. It was working in shaunm's version
[23:29] <j1mc> sounds good
[23:29]  * j1mc needs a brief nap
[23:29] <Captainkrtek> has anyone seen my addition of net-security-tips ?
[23:29] <Captainkrtek> If someone could look at it and reply it'd be much appreciated
[23:29] <j1mc> all: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-devel&m=130191960215339&w=2
[23:29] <j1mc> shaun is going ot be in touch with him
[23:30] <Captainkrtek> j1mc, just skimming that, seems pretty cool
[23:30] <mdke> j1mc: sleep well
[23:30] <j1mc> shaun seemed interested
[23:30] <j1mc> talk to you all later.
[23:31] <mdke> Captainkrtek: I haven't had a chance to look at it but hopefully someone will in due course
[23:31] <j1mc> thanks for all of your help!
[23:31] <Captainkrtek> bye j1mc
[23:31] <Captainkrtek> mdke, yeah I hope so :| No one has replied to any of my emails to the ML yet haha
[23:34] <mdke> Captainkrtek: it can take a while - everyone is rather busy right now and we are all volunteers
[23:35] <Captainkrtek> Yeah I understand, I can wait :-)
[23:35] <Captainkrtek> jbicha, any docs you want me to check out for you and mark as final?
[23:36] <Captainkrtek> wow just got the email about the online help site, looks very nice!
[23:37]  * mdke --> bed
[23:37] <Captainkrtek> hehe, Goodnight!
[23:39] <Captainkrtek> mdke, is there a need for a dedicated server?
[23:41] <shaunm> mdke: is the problem that they're slightly offset, not positioned correctly?
[23:43] <shaunm> the issue is that the css and js that was used for that didn't respond well to margin customizations and such. part of the fix was what I mentioned earlier about the css properties on the body element
[23:43] <Captainkrtek> shaunm, we are calling the "top bar" menu bar now right?
[23:43] <shaunm> those fixes are in yelp-xsl 3.0.1. so if it's at all possible for you to build using that, your life will be easier
[23:44] <shaunm> the html I built and put on my people.gnome.org space, by the way, was built with those yelp-xsl changes
[23:45] <jbicha> Captainkrtek: no, continue calling it "top panel" for now
[23:45] <Captainkrtek> k
[23:45] <Captainkrtek> just reviewing some outdated documents
[23:46] <Captainkrtek> also contractions are a no-no right?
[23:46] <jbicha> contractions are fine
[23:47] <Captainkrtek> oh
[23:47] <Captainkrtek> thought I saw something about them in the ml