[00:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Dominic Watkins] Time Machine backup via NFS - http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2011/04/27/time-machine-backup-via-nfs/
[02:00] <sebsebseb> hi
[02:06] <shauno> hm, that's fun.  just updated my natty vm
[02:06] <shauno> I have a user called shaun, and a user called natty.  gdm now shows two users called natty
[02:07] <sebsebseb> well I just joined this channel
[02:07] <sebsebseb> for what I think is my first time since 2010 some time :D
[02:07] <sebsebseb> same kind of thing for #ubuntu except that one I might have joined earlier this year very briefly
[02:07] <shauno> well, howdy :)
[02:08] <shauno> altho I must warn that 2am isn't a good time to get a first impression of this place :)
[02:08] <sebsebseb> shauno:  I know
[02:09] <sebsebseb> shauno: ,but I have been here before a few times in the past, so I know what this channel is like anyway
[02:09] <shauno> oh, cool.  I can quit pretending we're normal then
[02:53] <hamitron> shauno: why isn't 2am a good time?
[02:53] <hamitron> ;)
[02:53] <hamitron> we are always here :/
[02:54] <hamitron> or is that the reason?
[03:04] <hamitron> well, may only do 4 hour days atm, but need *some* sleep
[03:04] <hamitron> so nn all o/
[05:22] <HazRPG> think I've almost finished portal 2
[06:44] <AlanBell> happy release day everyone
[06:46] <HazRPG> I'm in space! \o/
[06:47] <HazRPG> AlanBell: wow, its release day today?
[06:47] <MartijnVdS> Release day today, RW tomorrow, Queen's Day (NL) on Saturday ;)
[06:47] <MartijnVdS> And lots of alcohol will be consumed 8-)
[06:49] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: RW?
[06:49] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: also dude! I'm in space \o/
[06:49] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you're in the UK, you must know what's happening tomorrow
[06:49] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Space! SPACE! SPAAAACE!
[06:49] <HazRPG> oh, royal wedding :)
[06:50] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: you what I'd tell her? I'm in space ;)
[06:50] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: not sure if I'm excited for release day or not...
[06:50] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ♪ Now I only want you gone
[06:50] <HazRPG> previous beta/rc crashed on me countless times T_____T
[06:51] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: xD
[06:51] <MartijnVdS> this is going to be the most unstable Ubuntu release ever
[06:51] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Portal2 is full of win :)
[06:53] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I don't know about that, I had issues with 9.10 at one point on release day
[06:54] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: also portal2 = mega win is full of \o/
[07:00] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: watching ending again xD \o/
[08:02] <AlanBell> song for the day http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/Narwhals/
[08:05] <Djones_hd> Perhaps should have a game to guess the official release time. My guess would be around lunch time or early afternoon
[08:06] <popey> we had a sweepstake last year imo
[08:06] <Djones_hd> Sweepstake. That was the word I was looking for
[08:16] <HazRPG> I'm shooting @ ~4PM :)
[08:20] <HazRPG> also, I always thought it was called a betting pool?
[08:21] <DJones> Just trying to set up a pad.ubuntu-uk sweepstake page for people to add their names to
[08:21] <HazRPG> awesome
[08:21] <HazRPG> hopefully it'll be done before I go to bed xD
[08:24] <HazRPG> if not, stick in me for around 4PM :)
[08:27] <DJones> Ok, its set up, just for fun, a little sweepstake to guess the time fo the Natty official release.  No prizes other than the temporary admiration of the winners ability to read the mind of the release manager. Pick a time and add your name to the list. http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/NattySweepstake
[08:33] <danfish> morning
[08:33] <danfish> is it out yet? ;)
[08:34] <danfish> oops - that bot's not in this channel
[08:35] <DJones> !isitoutyet-#ubuntu-release-party
[08:35] <DJones> Dam
[08:35] <DJones> Damm even
[08:35] <ging> is it that day already?
[08:35] <popey> it is
[08:36] <ging> i need some sleep
[08:44] <DJones> HazRPG: I've put you in at 16:30 as danfish nicked your 4pm slot :)
[08:45] <daubers> Morning
[08:46] <danfish> HazRPG: oops - sorry - didn't scroll up. I defer :)
[08:47] <DJones> Heh
[08:47] <davmor2> morning all
[08:47] <danfish> o/
[08:49] <daubers> need breakfast!
[08:50] <danfish> need MOAR breakfast!
[08:50]  * DJones considers a Narwhal sandwich
[08:51] <b1ackcr0w> Its a shame I'm an Atheist - Right now I want to thank god for Senseo :)
[08:51] <danfish> DJones: I've heard it tastes like tuna ;)
[08:52] <DJones> danfish: That sounds a bit fishy to me
[08:52] <BigRedS> I need a new icon for this, methinks: http://twitter.com/#!/isitoutyet
[08:52] <BigRedS> any suggestions?
[08:53] <danfish> DJones: stop carping on!
[08:54] <b1ackcr0w> Isn't the release party the plaice for silly fish jokes?
[08:54] <b1ackcr0w> I might have to Scampi over there and take a look
[08:54] <popey> ^5 b1ackcr0w atheism!
[08:56] <b1ackcr0w> Forgive the personal question Alan, are you sans theism also?
[08:56] <popey> I am, hence the high five
[08:56] <danfish> b1ackcr0w: no, he believes in Cod
[08:56] <popey> mmmmm fish
[08:56] <popey> http://drool.popey.com/
[08:56] <b1ackcr0w> danfish: quick, very quick - nealrly lolled
[08:57] <danfish> :)
[08:58] <b1ackcr0w> Ironically, I saw Guesthouse Paradiso yesterday. Hope that isn't prescient :)
[09:00]  * b1ackcr0w considering a nick change to Blackroe :)
[09:01] <danfish> heh
[09:06] <b1ackcr0w> I've just learned that a Narwhal is a mammal, so the fish jokes aren't really appropriate. Oh well it was fun whale it lasted.
[09:08] <DJones> b1ackcr0w: I wouldn't worry, it still swims and eats fish, so its sort of appropriate
[09:08] <bigcalm> Morning peeps
[09:09] <popey> pip pip
[09:09] <b1ackcr0w> GM bigcalm
[09:09] <bigcalm> Tally ho and off we go
[09:09] <DJones> For those joininig the channel recently, there is a guess the release time sweepstake on http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/NattySweepstake
[09:10] <bigcalm> Can I get through the next 9 hours and do any work?
[09:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] OggCamp 11  more tickets available! - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/04/27/oggcamp-11-more-tickets-available/
[09:11] <bigcalm> I'm wondering if I should upgrade the eeepc or wipe and install from fresh
[09:11] <b1ackcr0w> I've just looked up the word Oneiric because I didn't know what it means. Quite a good choice.
[09:12] <b1ackcr0w> Opinion is divided bigcalm. The official Ubuntu thought is that you should be fine upgrading from a previous version
[09:13] <gordonjcp> I always do a clean install
[09:13] <gordonjcp> often onto a new disk, since they're cheap
[09:13] <b1ackcr0w> The folks over at Mint believe that a clean install removes unused logs and cruft etc that may slow your system over time.
[09:13] <DJones> bigcalm: I had a 1 week old install of 10.10 and then upgraded
[09:14] <gordonjcp> bum, I was going to kick off an update last night
[09:14] <gordonjcp> I can't ssh in because I'm not booted into Ubuntu
[09:15] <gordonjcp> although I could swap the grub lines around to boot me into Ubuntu, I still don't have ssh configured in 11.04 beta
[09:15] <b1ackcr0w> Personally, I keep 3 partitions on my desktop HD. One for /home, one for my stable installation which gets upgraded and one for which ever distro I fancy testing
[09:15] <b1ackcr0w> that setup works well
[09:16] <b1ackcr0w> I keep a stable distro on the netbook and use cloud to keep the working files up to date
[09:25] <popey> http://popey.com/blog/2011/04/28/new-release/
[09:25] <popey> :)
[09:25] <bigcalm> Are we waiting for 11.04am?
[09:26] <popey> haha
[09:26]  * bigcalm tickles popey for being sneaky
[09:26]  * popey looks at Daviey 
[09:26] <DJones> bigcalm: Thats a good idea
[09:26] <bigcalm> GMT or BST?
[09:27]  * popey shakes fist at bigcalm 
[09:27] <bigcalm> Gerrof my lawn
[09:28] <bigcalm> popey: have you got a talk ready for oggcamp?
[09:28] <popey> nope
[09:29] <daubers> Has anyone? :)
[09:29] <Daviey> is it out yet?
[09:29]  * popey cuddles Daviey 
[09:29] <daubers> Daviey: It was out 6 months ago
[09:30] <Daviey> daubers, that is old skool.
[09:30] <daubers> It's so last year
[09:31] <bigcalm> It makes me want tea
[09:31] <oimon> at time of release does everyone have to switch from #ubuntu+1 to #ubuntu en masse, like when wimbledon coverage continues on BBC2 so they can show the news?
[09:31] <bigcalm> I demand the finest boo^Wtea in all the land
[09:32] <shauno> oimon: I think they try to shuffle everyone off to #ubuntu-release-party to confuse them first
[09:32] <oimon> on facebook, 138,990 people like linux, and 138,047 people like android...getting close
[09:32] <popey> Facebook: The barometer of everything.
[09:33] <DJones> oimon: I think they either get kicked from the channel or forwarded to #ubuntu fairly quickly & then +1 gets closed for a period
[09:33] <gord> +1 us normally shut down for a while :)
[09:33] <Daviey> I hate +1 getting closed, i really do.
[09:33] <oimon> lol...otherwise u get "when's ocelot alpha coming"
[09:33] <oimon> for 3 months
[09:33] <DJones> Daviey: Just join #ubuntu+2 instead
[09:34] <Daviey> well ocelot will be available from this afternoon :)
[09:34] <oimon> i never knew it was closed, i just never look in there until 2 mo's before release date
[09:34]  * oimon does the ocelot dance
[09:34] <gord> it will? didn't think repos opened for a while
[09:34] <gord> i normally upgrade at uds
[09:35] <Daviey> It seems doko is getting itchy feet waiting to upload the first cut of the new toolchain
[09:37] <andylockran> :)
[09:37] <andylockran> Good morning
[09:38]  * oimon reads about banshee moving to gtk3 and dropping support for gtk2
[09:40] <JR0cket1> Is anyone running 11.04 yet?  I have no updated showing from my current install (from daily), so assuming I am running the same as the release
[09:40] <SuperMatt> I am
[09:40] <SuperMatt> you wouldn't have seen any updates for the last couple of days because they've frozen everything
[09:41] <SuperMatt> what you have installed now should be the final released version
[09:42] <DJones> I'm running the beta, last updates I had were 30Mb last night
[09:43] <SuperMatt> hmmm, that may have come from other ppas
[09:43] <SuperMatt> the only update I've seen this week is an update to tzdata
[09:43] <DJones> SuperMatt: Could have been, but was possibly 2 days of updates
[09:43] <oimon> SuperMatt: me too..only 1 update
[09:44] <SuperMatt> essentially, if you have no updates today, you are running the full version of 10.04
[09:44] <SuperMatt> 11.04
[09:44] <oimon> warts and all
[09:44] <DJones> !warty | oimon No longer supported :)
[09:44] <Guest12596> are you guys waiting for 11.04 to be release?
[09:46] <popey> no, the people in #ubuntu-release-party are :)
[09:47] <bigcalm> Hehe
[09:47] <Guest12596> ah :D sounds good :)
[09:47] <oimon> we're wating for 11.10
[09:47] <oimon> :D
[09:47] <SuperMatt> oimon: you could probably install the 11.10 alpha tomorrow ;)
[09:56] <snoeman> Is support available in this channel
[09:57] <danfish> snoeman: yes
[10:01] <snoeman> I have just been given a laptop on which I have installed ubuntu 10.10. The laptop has  via chipset with an embedded unchrome pro graphics  card. I am not sure whether I am using the openchrome driver. How do I tell which driiver I am using . Also is this the best driver available
[10:03] <dogmatic69> snoeman: open system -> preferences -> monitor
[10:04] <popey> ugh unichrome
[10:04] <dogmatic69> you get something like if its not ubuntu drivers "Do you want to use your graphics driver vendor's tool instead?"
[10:04] <popey> thats not the right place dogmatic69
[10:05] <snoeman> This tells me the resolution and frame rate but not the driver type
[10:05] <popey> oh, sorry, my bad
[10:05] <popey> dogmatic69: that only happens for nvidia AIUI
[10:05] <popey> not unichrome
[10:05] <dogmatic69> oh
[10:05] <popey> snoeman: /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[10:05] <dogmatic69> dont mind me then :D
[10:06] <gord> hrm, is tomorrow the kind of holiday where shops or open or not?
[10:06] <DJones> I would guess open
[10:06] <DJones> Most of the people I know want to go to work to avoid the tv
[10:07] <gord> avoid tv?
[10:07]  * TheOpenSourcerer has just got back from doctors, chemist and shops. My youngest son is rather poorly but seems to have perked up after being told to eat sweets, crisps and drink lemonade
[10:07] <DJones> gord: Is any channel not showing Harry Potter & Hermiones's wedding?
[10:07] <gord> i don't know, i don't have my tv hooked up to broadcast :)
[10:08] <AlanBell> they were just good friends, he married the weasly girl didn't he?
[10:08] <oimon> i thought he was a eunuch
[10:08] <DJones> oimon: Thats my dog after yesterday
[10:08] <oimon> not that i've ever seen films/read the books
[10:09]  * popey wonders if TheOpenSourcerer is coming out to play this evening
[10:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I am.
[10:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> We have a meeting in town at 3pm :-)
[10:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] New Release& - http://popey.com/blog/2011/04/28/new-release/
[10:10] <DJones> popey: You should get that link added to the !isitout factoid in r-p just to wind people up
[10:15]  * TheOpenSourcerer is so underwhelmed by Natty that I can't even be bothered to do the customary remove mono blog post. Doubt I will be using 11.04 for a long time.
[10:16] <oimon> for me, it depends if features will be added between now and 11.10
[10:16] <gord> eh? features added?
[10:16] <dogmatic69> what is the correct way to run a script from crontab?
[10:16] <gord> thats not what a stable release is for
[10:16] <dogmatic69> its in ~/
[10:16] <oimon> gord: maybe via third party
[10:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: You need to make sure the script has a decent PATH set in it.
[10:17] <gord> TheOpenSourcerer, you can't use the classic session - assuming your complaining about unity
[10:17] <dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer: how you mean?
[10:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> then just add a line by doing crontab -e
[10:17] <gord> ?
[10:17] <oimon> if the community come up with some nifty additions and things to make unity work better for me, then i might try it
[10:17] <dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer: i have this...  */1 * * * * ./home/ubuntu/backup param
[10:18] <dogmatic69> Apr 28 09:16:01 ip-10-48-58-180 CRON[18923]: (CRON) error (grandchild #18924 failed with exit status 1)
[10:18] <dogmatic69> Apr 28 09:16:01 ip-10-48-58-180 CRON[18923]: (CRON) info (No MTA installed, discarding output)
[10:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: What's the "." for before the /
[10:18] <oimon> dogmatic69: i see a dot in the front of your path that shouldn't be there
[10:18] <DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: I like natty & unity, its turned out to suit me quite well
[10:18] <dogmatic69> oh
[10:18] <oimon> dogmatic69: you need the absolute path
[10:18] <dogmatic69> when i run it in cli, i do ./backup in the folder
[10:18] <dogmatic69> so figured that was the way... trying without
[10:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: But cron needs the full path.
[10:18] <oimon> ./backup is shorthand for /home/ubuntu/backup because you are in that folder already
[10:19] <dogmatic69> i thought the . makes it run or something
[10:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> And inside your backup script add a line something like export PATH="$PATH:/bin:/usr/bin:/sbin(if needed etc).
[10:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> . meand pwd
[10:19] <oimon> no, it's a quick way of saying `pwd`
[10:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> dot means pwd
[10:20] <dogmatic69> oh
[10:20] <dogmatic69> cool
[10:20] <oimon> there's a way to describe the path to a file using the top of the disk tree , which is /
[10:20] <dogmatic69> so, just */1 * * * * /home/user/backup param ?
[10:20] <oimon> nothing goes higher than the top /
[10:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> cron jobs don't really have an environment so it's not uncommon for cron scripts to fail because they can't find the app that a script line refers too.
[10:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> Alternatively, use full paths for all commands
[10:21] <dogmatic69> looks like its running now
[10:21] <dogmatic69> now to make it not run while its running
[10:22] <DJones> For those joininig the channel recently, there is a guess the release time sweepstake on http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/NattySweepstake
[10:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> gord My exposure (although limited) to Unity has left me totally cold. And I'm not even keen on the global menu idea TBH.
[10:22] <gord> TheOpenSourcerer, so use the classic session?
[10:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> I just fail to see what it delivers. I thought that even the gnome classic had the global menu?
[10:23] <oimon> linkedin have decided to start spamming me :(
[10:23] <gord> it shouldn't - iirc we don't use appmenu in classic, its classic
[10:23] <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: same as Gnome Vs KDE surely? A different way of doing window management/DE?
[10:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> gord I will get round to trying that again when I have time.
[10:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: Yep. I have built beta2 of Kubuntu, Ubuntu and xubuntu. Preferred the initial look of xubuntu but it is limited.
[10:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> I may well end up using debian at this rate
[10:27] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: why not just use classic?
[10:27] <dogmatic69> when you direct something to a file, like command > file.ext is that append or replace?
[10:27] <popey> replace
[10:27] <popey> >> is append
[10:27] <dogmatic69> :)
[10:27] <dogmatic69> thanks
[10:27] <popey> np
[10:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> I "thought" that it still had the global menu thing. But if that is not the case then I may well do so :-)
[10:28] <popey> oh
[10:28] <popey> i see
[10:28] <popey> yeah, it's pretty much the same as old school gnome
[10:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> OK.
[10:28] <popey> i think there was a bug at some point where it did have global menu thing
[10:28] <popey> so you might have seen it then
[10:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh, I was sure I read that somewhere.
[10:28] <gord> it used to have the global menu, but that was just to test the global menu stack
[10:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> I think for me the main thing is I don't really have the time to spend learning the new UI and larking about. Unity just looks like it was made for kids or my mum/dad.
[10:30] <popey> you massive old _fart_ :)
[10:30] <oimon> unity is like marmite :)
[10:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> tee hee
[10:30] <popey> \o/ marmite hilight
[10:30] <MartijnVdS> *shudder*
[10:30] <dogmatic69> thanks TheOpenSourcerer / oimon
[10:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: Yeah - but I like Marmite
[10:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: NP
[10:30] <oimon> so do i, but not every day
[10:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[10:31] <oimon> and only on toast
[10:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nice as a hot drink too
[10:31] <bigcalm> ¬.¬
[10:31]  * popey wonders if anyone is having a street party tomorrow
[10:32] <oimon> i guess natty is a necessary step to making unity better, but lots of people will be turned off
[10:32] <knightwi1e> morgning
[10:32] <popey> yes
[10:32] <popey> it is
[10:33] <gord> oh god why does the shop still have pringles on buy one get one free :(
[10:33] <JamesTait> gord: Where? I'm there!
[10:33] <gord> NO MINE! >:(
[10:34] <oimon> pringles always cut my mouth at the sides when i try to eat 8 at a time
[10:34] <JamesTait> oimon: lol
[10:34] <SuperMatt> oimon: never do what I did and try to eat 30 at a time
[10:34] <oimon> i'm really into niknaks at the moment, except i can't seem to find the scampi ones
[10:34] <SuperMatt> ESPECIALLY not salt and vinegar
[10:35] <oimon> lol
[10:35] <Knightpad> hey guyz
[10:35] <Knightpad> i have a small question
[10:36] <DJones> Knightpad: Its not out yet
[10:36] <DJones> :)
[10:36] <Knightpad> i would like to know what command to use to move my *mp4 files out of a directory to another directory
[10:36] <popey> mv goat_porn/*.mp4 /massive_collection_of_disney_films/
[10:36] <Knightpad> but i dont think it works when i try mv *mp4 /home/DROPBOX /home/MOVIES
[10:36] <Knightpad> lol
[10:36] <Knightpad> thank you popey
[10:37] <popey> are they all in subdirectories?
[10:37]  * DJones wondered why that set off a hilight
[10:37] <Knightpad> but you already gave me your entire collection of goatporn .. remember ?
[10:37] <Knightpad> the dropbox folder has all my downloaded podcasts,
[10:37] <Knightpad> i would like to "move out" the movie files to a different folders
[10:37] <Knightpad> foldeR
[10:37] <popey> in subdirectories or directly in /home/dropbox?
[10:38] <popey> why use the command line?
[10:38] <popey> why not just open file manager, highlight them and drag them>
[10:38] <popey> ?
[10:38] <Knightpad> cause i want to script it automatically
[10:38] <popey> ah
[10:38] <Knightpad> my computers work for me as i sleep :)
[10:38] <Knightpad> the paths are :
[10:38] <Knightpad> /home/DROPBOX/Audio  (this is where ALL the files are)
[10:38] <Knightpad> /home/DROPBOX/Video (this is where i want the mp4 and m4v files to go)
[10:39] <oimon> are they mp4 or MP4 files?
[10:39] <oimon> i.e. case sensitive?
[10:39] <Knightpad> i think the file ext is all in lower cases
[10:39] <oimon> Knightpad: try find /home/DROPBOX/Audio -name *.mp4 -ls and paste the results into pastebin
[10:39] <Knightpad> but there are m4v and mp4 files
[10:40] <oimon> Knightpad: do it in 2 steps
[10:40] <Knightpad> oimon: thanx !
[10:40] <Knightpad> so its probably going to be :
[10:40] <gerbilschool> msg nickserv identify Distinctly3
[10:40] <Knightpad> mv /home/DROPBOX/Audio/*mp4 /home/DROPBOX/Video/
[10:40] <DJones> gerbilschool: Time for a new password
[10:40] <popey> ooooooops
[10:41] <Knightpad> gerbilschool: you might want to change that pw :)
[10:41] <gerbilschool> I get it
[10:41] <oimon> schoolboy error
[10:42] <oimon> Knightpad: if there's no mp4 files in subdirectories, yes
[10:42] <Neoti> so when is ubuntu 11.04 out inj the uk then ?
[10:42] <oimon> as a sysadmin, if i have disk space, i usually do a cp -r of files rather than mv
[10:42] <oimon> then i rm the source files after..just in case
[10:43] <Knightpad> oimon: yep , no subdirs
[10:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: cp -a FTW!
[10:44] <oimon> handy tip for find command: using the -iname instead of -name will allow case insensitive search
[10:45] <dwatkins> oimon: yeah, it's very useful that - also, the -exec syntax is a little strange, but really useful, e.g. -exec file {} \;
[10:45] <oimon> dwatkins: yeah, ugh
[10:45] <BigRedS> that reminds me, while we're here, is there any advantage to piping to xargs rather than using -exec?
[10:45] <oimon> especially when doing an rm, i once aciidentally did a rm * due to cockup with rm -rf {} \;
[10:46] <dwatkins> BigRedS: I suspect using -exec might be best if you have special characters in the name, or names starting with '--' etc.
[10:46] <dwatkins> I think find uses the inode number instead of the name.
[10:46] <MartijnVdS> no it uses the filename :)
[10:46] <dwatkins> or at least it escapes the name properly, which might not get handled perfectly when piping the name to xargs
[10:46] <MartijnVdS> so you'd still have to do -exec rm -- \{} \;
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> but then you could just use -delete
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> (I think)
[10:47] <oimon> my employer insists on requiring ITIL and Prince2 for their vacancies. i wonder if they actually know what they are
[10:47] <dwatkins> yeah, that's what i was thinking, MartijnVdS - using the '--' option to imply no further options will be supplied
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> oimon: so does mine.. and I wonder the same
[10:48] <oimon> MartijnVdS: it makes me not want to go for the job
[10:48] <dwatkins> Sounds like a game.
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> oimon: It makes me want to go for another ;)
[10:48] <oimon> if i have training budget i'd rather get VMware or redhat cert than ITIL crap
[10:49] <Knightpad> http://pastebin.com/3PmNu50i
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> If they stop cutting that budget, yes
[10:49] <BigRedS> dwatkins: yeah, -exec always seems neater. I just can't see why people use | xargs...
[10:49] <Knightpad> should i put the commands ABOVE or BELOW the "done"
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: xargs can do more than one filename at a time
[10:49] <oimon> MartijnVdS: you work at a uni or govt?
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: spawning a new process for each file might take longer
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> oimon: no, ISP
[10:50] <oimon> oh!
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> Under-the-radar projects tend to work best here :|
[10:50] <oimon> i thought only public sector used the job template with ITIL prefilled
[10:50] <Knightpad> abyone ?
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> oimon: we're 100% owned by ex-government (KPN - the telco) though
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> oimon: that might be the source of the problem :)
[10:51] <oimon> my employer is doing a nokia :(
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> Mine is still in the "outsourcing is good" stage
[10:53] <oimon> mine is only just getting into that
[10:53] <oimon> outsourcing decisions first, soon to outsource support
[10:54] <oimon> apparently iptables is too hard to support (not like we don't have whole teams of linux dudes), so we should get juniper , cisco which have a good support network : i.e. 3rd party support contract = net result = degradation of support/service
[10:54] <gord> i'm guessing this is the kind of company that has more managers than regular employees? ;)
[10:55] <oimon> it's an instution that has issued a burning platform statement , and rushed into a bad alliance with a consultant and MS, after years of excellent open source infrastructure
[10:56] <oimon> the burning platform only relates to a very small and easily fixed part of the IT setup
[10:56] <oimon> now we are all on fire :(
[10:57] <oimon> knightwise: your script looks overcomplicated
[10:57] <oimon> Knightpad: sorry ^^
[10:57] <oimon> wrong name
[10:58] <scoundrel50a> does anybody know if the backlight problem in natty has been fixed yet?
[10:59] <scoundrel50a> Today is supposed to be the release date, and just wondered if it was worth trying to upgrade.
[10:59] <BigRedS> it's never particularly worth trying to upgrade on release day
[10:59] <popey> scoundrel50a: what bug number?
[10:59] <BigRedS> but what is the backlight problem? Check the bug, that'll tell you
[11:00] <scoundrel50a> bug 759104
[11:00] <scoundrel50a> when you install, on boot, after the grub, the backlight gets turned off
[11:00] <BigRedS> it's not closed, so I'd suspect it's not fixed
[11:01] <popey> that description is rubbish
[11:01] <popey> it says nothing about backlights
[11:01] <oimon> if it's a separate bug then a new big needs filing
[11:01] <BigRedS> and, yeah, that bug doesn't actually say what does or doesn't happen
[11:02] <BigRedS> ohh, yeah, makes sense now. I was reading it wrong...
[11:03] <scoundrel50a> If you go down the page, it has more information about it, and Xorg files added
[11:05] <oimon> scoundrel50a: if you own the bug, i'd change the bug title if i were you
[11:06] <popey> scoundrel50a: it isnt marked as fixed, so that probably means it isnt
[11:06] <oimon> if i was an Acer Aspir XXX user with no backlight i'd never find that bug
[11:06] <scoundrel50a> How do I that? Plus somebody added [gm45] and what should I put instead. Its the first bug I have added
[11:07] <popey> the bot did that
[11:07] <popey> leave that there
[11:08] <scoundrel50a> I just worked out how to get into change the descritop, what should I add?
[11:08] <scoundrel50a> descrition*
[11:08] <popey> well, i wouldn't worry about that too much
[11:08] <popey> it's on bryces radar
[11:09] <popey> he's the right person to be looking at it
[11:09] <scoundrel50a> ok. thanks.
[11:09] <DJones> Target date for 12.04 should be 1st April, then the release manager could upload 700Mb iso's of Rick Astley between 00:00 and 12:00
[11:10] <dogmatic69> lol
[11:13] <BigRedS> haha
[11:17] <scoundrel50a> ok, I have the old version Ubuntu Netbook Remix on my netbook, and it works, and its an Acer Aspire one, would it work on that, or is there something different they did, for Natty?
[11:17] <SuperMatt> guh, I'm still angry that 11.04 has three different scrollbars on screen all the freaking time
[11:19] <ali1234> os x has this weird thing where the mouse pointer moves at different speeds depending on where it is on the screen
[11:19] <ali1234> any idea how i turn it off?
[11:23] <popey> does it?
[11:23] <ali1234> yes, it does
[11:23] <popey> such as where?
[11:23]  * popey has his osx laptop with him
[11:23] <ali1234> the mouse pointer moves faster over empty spaces than it does over buttons
[11:23] <popey> ooo
[11:24] <ali1234> and menus and anything you can click on
[11:24] <ali1234> so it's like some parts of the screen are "sticky"
[11:24] <ali1234> and in other places the mouse pointer runs off out of control
[11:24] <ali1234> it's really stupid and i want to turn it off
[11:26] <ali1234> actually this explains why i find it so hard to use global menu on mac and why i always miss the menu bar when i try to click on it
[11:27] <ali1234> because the mouse pointer slows down before it actually goes over the menu bar and i'm just not expecting it
[11:27] <BigRedS> Man, I can't wait til I get OSX up on my mac mini :)
[11:28] <oimon> ali1234: why are you using a mac?
[11:29] <ali1234> because i have to evaluate xcode for ios app development
[11:29] <ali1234> i didn't even manage to download it yet it's 4GB
[11:29] <ali1234> i already used all my download allowance installing the necessary updates to run it
[11:29] <popey> i cant replicate this ali1234
[11:29] <ali1234> popey: apparently it's a "feature" of the logitech mouse drivers for OS X
[11:29] <popey> ah
[11:30] <gord> that would get annoying. fast.
[11:30] <ali1234> popey: but just for a launch, try turning mouse acceleration to max like i have, it seems to make it more noticable
[11:30] <gord> i had to install drivers on windows for my logitech keyboard because they mapped left click + right click to open search or something, instead of y'know, middle click
[11:30] <ali1234> like acceleration only works when not over a button or something
[11:31] <ali1234> if you have it on slowest setting it may not happen
[11:31] <popey> i have no acceleration option
[11:31] <popey> well, no mouse
[11:31] <ali1234> it is called "mouse track speed"
[11:31] <popey> using track pad if that makes a difference
[11:31] <ali1234> tracking
[11:32] <ali1234> if oyu have no mouse it is hardly surprising you can't reproduce it :)
[11:32] <andylockran> popey: how do you scroll up irssi on a mac?
[11:32] <popey> meh
[11:32] <andylockran> I can only scroll up the terminal?
[11:32]  * dwatkins has his Visa card cancelled due to what appears to be a compromised take-away restaurant website
[11:32] <popey> andylockran: i press page up
[11:32] <popey> oh, on a mac
[11:32] <andylockran> popey: where's that button on the mac pro ?
[11:32] <popey> fn+shift+up
[11:33] <andylockran> fn+command+shift+up
[11:33] <popey> no
[11:33] <popey> bah, lemme test
[11:33] <andylockran> works for me
[11:33] <popey> that was from memory
[11:33] <gord> all that just to page up?
[11:33] <popey> yes
[11:33]  * oimon finds it funny that people get mac support in ubuntu-uk..wonder if #mac-uk exists..
[11:33] <popey> you do not need cmd
[11:34] <popey> you are pressing cmd when you dont need to
[11:34] <popey> fn+shift+up
[11:34] <andylockran> doesn't work for me without command
[11:34] <BigRedS> oimon: I used to get Debian support in #windows-server somewhere
[11:34] <popey> you suck at keyboards
[11:34] <gord> people getting mac support from their friends :) i usually ask friends before the internet too
[11:35] <andylockran> popey: I suck at most :P
[11:35]  * andylockran is Glad Gary isn't here...
[11:35] <andylockran> Who's out in Covent Garden tonight?
[11:36] <DJones> andylockran: Probably prince william on a last minute stag do
[11:36] <popey> me andylockran
[11:36] <BigRedS> I'll be there in a Debian t-shirt....
[11:37] <mOZART321> HELLO
[11:37] <mOZART321> woops I mean hello
[11:37] <X3N> HELLLOOOOOOO
[11:37] <popey> HELLO!
[11:38] <mOZART321> Does anybody know when Natty will be out?
[11:38] <mOZART321> brb
[11:38] <DJones> For those joining the channel recently, there is a guess the release time sweepstake on http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/NattySweepstake
[11:39] <X3N> oh
[11:39] <DJones> And popey's guesstimate has been & gone with no announcement
[11:39] <popey> er
[11:40] <X3N> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
[11:40] <popey> bum
[11:40] <ali1234> isn't it tomorrow?
[11:40] <popey> no
[11:40] <popey> today
[11:40] <ali1234> omglol
[11:40] <ali1234> is it out yet?!?!?!/
[11:40] <popey> observe #ubuntu-release-party
[11:40] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: every time you ask it's delayed by a few more minutes
[11:40] <popey> heh
[11:40] <oimon> !topic
[11:41] <X3N> important shamportant
[11:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> "Are we there yet?"
[11:47] <scoundrel50a> If I have Ubuntu Netbook Remix installed on my netbook, will Natty work if I try to upgrade?
[11:47] <scoundrel50a> Its basically the same thing
[11:47] <gord> it will
[11:48] <scoundrel50a> oh, good, at least I can get one upgrade to work then
[11:48] <gord> we got rid of the netbook remix for natty so you'll have the regular version, but it will adapt itself slightly
[11:48] <scoundrel50a> thank you, that is good to know.
[11:50] <ali1234> i've found while trying to use unity that i'm using coping strategies that i learned on windows 3.1 (and haven't used since)
[11:51] <popey> heh, such as?
[11:51] <ali1234> for example i never minimize windows any more, instead i carefully arrange them so i can always see at least 1 part of them no matter which one is on top
[11:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> CTL+ALT_DEL?
[11:51] <ali1234> because that's easier than trying to use the dock
[11:52] <popey> yeah, finding stuff isnt straightforward
[11:56] <qwebirc44960> Can J ask
[11:56] <gord> its not out yet :)
[11:57] <qwebirc44960> when will be ready for download new version of ubuntu 11.04?
[11:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> "Are we there yet?"
[11:57] <qwebirc44960> on the offical site is not yet
[11:58] <DJones> qwebirc44960: Some time in the next 12 hours is most likely
[11:58] <MartijnVdS> qwebirc44960: every time you ask it's delayed by a few more minutes
[11:59] <qwebirc44960> j will wait :)
[12:01] <davmor2> are we nearly there yet?
[12:04] <DJones> davmor2: Yes. its nearly lunchtime
[12:04] <scoundrel50a> hehe.....the same question is being asked on all the channels for ubuntu, I am logged into three now, and its quite funny watchiung it all.
[12:05] <davmor2> DJones: :)  nice
[12:05] <gord> geez, clicked on #u-r-p by accident instead of #u-uk - thought you had all gone mad
[12:05] <davmor2> scoundrel50a: watch release-party :)
[12:05] <Pendulum> gord: you mean we haven't?
[12:05] <DJones> There's a difference between r-p & -uk?
[12:06] <scoundrel50a>  where is the realease party?
[12:06] <gord> less mad :)
[12:06] <MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: porterhouse covent garden
[12:06] <DJones> scoundrel50a: #ubuntu-release-party
[12:06] <popey> 12:06:07 -!- mode/#ubuntu-release-party [+mz] by tsimpson
[12:06] <popey> here we go :)
[12:06] <scoundrel50a> oh, just round the corner, but I am skint today, dont get aid till Tuesday. I would have gone other wise.
[12:07] <tsimpson> I have no news, I just hate -r-p :)
[12:07] <davmor2> gord: Just suggested #narwhals_narwhals_livin_in_the_ocean_causin_a_commotion_cause_they_are_so_awesome as the official hash tag don't think they're going for it though :D
[12:07] <popey> hahah tsimpson
[12:07] <gord> does that even fit? ;D
[12:08] <davmor2> gord: no idea I go try it :D
[12:08] <gord> not much of a party if everyone is muted!
[12:08] <AlanBell> !natty
[12:09] <tsimpson> it's funny that most people have not noticed the +m yet
[12:09] <scoundrel50a> It looks like #ubuntu+1 is muted too,
[12:10] <popey> kinda killing the party mood there tsimpson
[12:10] <tsimpson> yeah, I forwarded it to #ubuntu because people were unconvinced that ISOs on the interwebs were not final
[12:12]  * DJones notes tsimpson now causing nickspam in #u :)
[12:14] <gord> wonder how many people we will get in #u this cycle
[12:14] <gord> i remember when a thousand was a huge amount
[12:15] <DJones> gord: I asked that yesterday, from Pici's stats, was only about 1800 for 10.10, but was 2100 for 10.04
[12:15] <andylockran> 1024 is even bigger
[12:15] <ali1234> well 10.04 was LTS right?
[12:15] <bigcalm> !lts
[12:15] <ali1234> and 10.10 didn't have anything big and obvious new about it really
[12:15] <Neoti> have i won the sweepsteak .... for ubuntu being released... lol
[12:16] <bigcalm> 10.10 had PHP 5.3 which messed up my dev server
[12:16] <ali1234> i'd guess over 2000 again
[12:16] <ali1234> maybe we should have a sweepstake on this too
[12:16] <davmor2> gord: https://twitter.com/#!/davmor2/statuses/63561900247621632
[12:16] <DJones> Over 1700 now & US is only just waking up
[12:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: 10.04 had php-5.3
[12:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> I still have to pin it back for a few services
[12:18] <gord> davmor2, it'll never take off! :P
[12:19] <davmor2> gord: haha
[12:19] <bigcalm> Was it in 10.04? Humm, yes
[12:19] <gord> oh, i guess if apple say they are not tracking user data, bbc will just run with that story, okay then
[12:19] <gord> we should get PR like that
[12:21] <MartijnVdS> Apple would never lie about those things!
[12:24] <Azelphur> I know you can pipe to a file with >, but is there a way to append to a file?
[12:24] <gord> i really like half size windows by throwing them against the edges, but banshee really needs to work on their UI for when that happens
[12:24] <gord> it really wants to be wide
[12:24] <Azelphur> > wipes the file and starts from scratch, where as I want to append :p
[12:24] <JamesTait> Azelphur: Use >> to append.
[12:24] <brobostigon> good afternoon eveyrone.
[12:24] <Azelphur> JamesTait: ty :)
[12:25] <JamesTait> Azelphur: Welcome. :)
[12:28] <Mozart321> hi
[12:30]  * ali1234 upgrades internet account. time for some serious downloading
[12:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: What time do you expect to be in town?
[12:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> In fact what time is anyone getting up there?
[12:33] <popey> not sure tbh
[12:33] <popey> not checked times etc
[12:33] <AlanBell> release is imminent I think
[12:33] <bigcalm> Oooer
[12:34]  * brobostigon checks on free oggcamp tickets.
[12:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: See you shortly at the station.
[12:34] <AlanBell> yeah, just going to hit send on an email in a few seconds I think
[12:34] <popey> 12:34:11 -!- skaet changed the topic of #ubuntu-release-party to: Welcome to the online Ubuntu Release Party! | 11.04 is released !!!!
[12:35] <popey> will text you when i know TheOpenSourcerer
[12:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ok popey see you all later. We will be around after 4, 4:30 ish I should think.
[12:35] <popey> i wont be up till after 6 i suspect
[12:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> laterz all.
[12:36] <popey> o/
[12:36] <DJones> Ah well, nobody picked the correct time in the sweepstake, although Neoti was a minute or two away
[12:37] <davmor2> DJones: put me down for 10 sec before it's actually announced :D
[12:37] <JamesTait> 11:34 UTC, not 11:04. How disappointing. :-P
[12:39] <daubers> \o/ melty mirror day
[12:39] <MartijnVdS> popey: Kate Stewart to ubuntu-announce, ubuntu-release
[12:39] <MartijnVdS> show details 13:36 (3 minutes ago)
[12:40] <DJones> And the official announcement has hit the list https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2011-April/000147.html
[12:43] <Neoti> Djones.... thought i won it ... cos it was released on there site @ 12:22pm UK Time ... ?
[12:43] <Neoti> and i picked 12-12:30?
[12:43] <DJones> Neoti: I was going on the time in #u-r-p & the time of the annouce mail
[12:44] <DJones> But either way, you were the closest
[12:44] <Neoti> Doh... oh well .... thats how i am with the UK lotto to... always close never a winner ... :)
[12:44] <Neoti> lol
[12:44] <Neoti> hehe
[12:44] <MartijnVdS> Neoti: Lotteries are tax for the statistically challenged :)
[12:45] <Neoti> :)
[12:45] <Neoti> well i will update to 11.04 over the weekend or something not doing it straight away .... lol you never know ....
[12:45] <MartijnVdS> Neoti: next time, think about this: it's as likely to hit 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 as the numbers you choose :)
[12:47] <Mez> natty's been released but still with dodgy nvidia support?
[12:47] <Mez> yay.
[12:47] <Neoti> im off for some food now ...
[12:51] <dogmatic69> did i win?
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> Mez: it's been released with a dodgy UI
[12:53] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: lol
[12:54] <Mez> MartijnVdS: Nah - that's "optional" at the moment :d
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> Mez: there's xubuntu :)
[12:55] <Mez> MartijnVdS: "Ubuntu Classic"
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> Mez: yes. but not in 11.10
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> Mez: so xubuntu it is, for me.
[12:55] <Mez> I know...
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> Mez: it's faster too
[12:55]  * Mez shrugs
[12:55] <Mez> I'm gonna be having a look @ Gnome 3 and KDE4
[12:56] <brobostigon> i am happy with the gnome3-teams ppa, in natty, with gnome-shell.
[12:57] <MartijnVdS> I tried it, and gdm didn't let me log in.
[12:58] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: true, because of a gnome-session issue, in will onlylet you log into gnome-shell at the moment.
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it was worse
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: after entering my password, the gdm window went grey.. and nothing worked
[12:59] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that shouldnt happen, i have had a smooth experience it seems in comparison. that s not good, i havent seen that issue personally.
[13:00] <davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc pass it on :D
[13:00] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I hate you now.
[13:01] <dutchie> oh, it's out
[13:01] <dutchie> how exciting
[13:01] <davmor2> dutchie: yeap
[13:01] <Mez> davmor2: I actually forgot release was today till I got the announcement email
[13:02] <davmor2> Mez: D'oh
[13:02] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: That's what I'm here for don't worry though I hate you back :P
[13:02] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: :)
[13:03]  * Mez sticks the narwhals animation onto the big screen
[13:04] <davmor2> Mez: You need to blast the music out too or it just isn't annoying and addictive :D
[13:05] <Mez> davmor2: I'm next to the Customer Relations Dept
[13:06] <davmor2> Mez: you'll drag in customer from far and wide Honest
[13:07] <Mez> I doubt it.
[13:08] <davmor2> Mez: But I have such an honest face how could you not believe me ;)
[13:08] <Azelphur> it seems gb.archive.ubuntu.com is down :p
[13:08] <Mez> davmor2: I'd be likely to lose my job.
[13:09] <Mez> Azelphur: just slow
[13:09] <Azelphur> Mez: slow to the connection timed out point?
[13:09] <Mez> Azelphur: I'm still managing to download from it.
[13:09] <davmor2> Azelphur: it's alway slow on release day
[13:09] <Azelphur> oh, of course release day :p
[13:09] <Azelphur> I'm already running natty :D
[13:10] <Mez> http://weebls-stuff.com/songs/Narwhals
[13:10] <Azelphur> indeed, that should have been the login sound.
[13:21] <scoundrel50a> I dont thing I will upgrade this computer yet, so, I can see the upgrade button, in the update manager, if I ignore it will it go away, until I am ready to upgrade. The other thing I update by the terminal using sudo apt-get update and sudo apt-get dist-upgrade, if I do the ndist upgrade, will it upgrade to Natty, or just keep to Maverick?
[13:22] <BigRedS> scoundrel50a: if you don't change your sources.list file, you'll stay in maverick
[13:22] <BigRedS> the upgrade button edits that file, then runs do-release-upgrade
[13:22] <BigRedS> which is now more recommended than dist-upgrading
[13:23] <scoundrel50a> I dont change things, as I dont know what they are, so I should be ok then. Thank you.
[13:29] <brobostigon> intel gpu hang, not fixed, :(
[13:30] <brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/715096/comments/22
[13:34] <brobostigon> this bug is getting frustrating now.
[13:35] <Azelphur> brobostigon: I get fun random freezes myself on nvidia :D
[13:35] <Azelphur> My computer just likes to take a break for 60 seconds or so, then return to normal \o/
[13:36] <brobostigon> Azelphur: it is unrecoverable, other than loggin in via ssh, and rebooting.
[13:36] <Azelphur> yea, I get that a lot too
[13:36] <brobostigon> :(
[13:37] <Azelphur> X just jumps to 100% and that's it your screwed short of kill -9ing X :p
[13:37] <Azelphur> fun fun
[13:37] <brobostigon> Azelphur: here, no cpu change or like, the gpu just simply hangs/lockup.
[13:38] <brobostigon> manuallyrestarting xorg doesnt work.
[13:38] <oimon> i blame those pesky narwhals
[13:38] <Azelphur> ^
[13:38] <ali1234> the mac mini having the built in speaker is really weird
[13:38] <popey> I might take my narwhal to the release party
[13:39] <ali1234> especially since when you delete something it makes a sound that sounds exactly like the hard drive breaking
[13:39] <oimon> i have a mac mini on my desk - i've never turned it on
[13:42] <ali1234> it took me about 10 minutes to figure out *how* to turn it on
[13:42] <ali1234> stupid minimalist design
[13:43] <oimon> that would be embarrassing. i only have it in case of emergency mac support required, never thought about difficulty in finding steve jobs g-spot
[13:45] <shauno> there's one button on the entire box, and it was too complicated?
[13:45]  * oimon checks the box
[13:46] <oimon> maybe the 10 mins was hyperbole...probably meant 10 secs
[13:46] <ali1234> well i didn't see the button
[13:46] <ali1234> so i figured it worked off the keyboard or something like everything else on macs
[13:46] <ali1234> so i was pressing all the keys trying to figure out which one was mapped to power
[13:47] <oimon> they probably sell an adapter for it :D
[13:49] <shauno> more likely they thought using the same standby icon as the rest of the world was as obvious as required ;)
[13:51]  * shauno really should learn not to get in the way of a good trolling
[13:53] <popey> to be fair, it took me a little while to find the button on my imac
[13:53] <popey> not minutes, but still
[13:55] <shauno> the imac's an odd one because it seems too big to put things like that around the back.  so I'd probably look on the front, then the sides, and the back last
[14:02] <oimon> anyone got any opinions on tablet/laptop hybrids like the thinkpad X220 tablet, and the dell inspiron duo, or the acer iconia ? a user wants me to buy him one
[14:04] <popey> silly freenode
[14:04] <popey> oimon: i have a toshiba convertible tablet
[14:04] <oimon> is it quite new?
[14:04] <popey> you're looking at the ones that have a removable screen?
[14:04] <popey> no
[14:05] <oimon> not necessarily, if you also swivel the screen too
[14:05] <popey> i dont rate them
[14:05] <oimon> hasn't given me a lot to go on, but linux compatbility is a bonus
[14:05] <oimon> the thinkpads seem to have good reputation
[14:09] <daubers> Boss is considering buying some android tablets with rj45 for diagnostic stuff
[14:09] <daubers> since we can apparently buy them for ~£75 a unit
[14:11] <dogmatic69> anyone skilled in setting up trac?
[14:36] <danfish> daubers: oh yeah - he's getting them from me. Now where is that lorry coz I've gotta push something off the back ;)
[14:36] <daubers> danfish: Some place in china
[14:38] <oimon> probably nckia or aple
[14:45] <danfish> hah
[14:46] <X3N> helping my little brother do his vb homework, makes me want to cry
[14:46] <danfish> I got a solar charge controller from Hong Kong recently. I swear they chucked the chinese instruction manual into google translate and then pasted the results onto the english manual
[14:47] <X3N> teaching vb as programming is like learning to drive on a push bike
[14:48] <oimon> i've managed to get this far in IT never touching VB
[14:49] <oimon> shame they are teaching kids something a bit better
[14:50] <oimon> either something useful now e.g. php and web applications in LAMP, or C programming since most languages have C as the root
[14:53] <Laney> any of you ever bought a gym ball? do they come deflated?
[14:54] <DJones> Laney: The aerobic ones? or the heavy ones, my wife has bought the aerobic/yoga ones in the past & its had to be inflated
[14:54] <DJones> s/heavy ones/medicine balls
[14:54] <Laney> aerobic one, got to get one for physio
[14:55] <DJones> I'd expect you'd need to inflate it
[14:55] <Laney> just wondering if I could take the bike to buy it or if I'll have to walk back with a huge ball
[14:55] <danfish> Laney: deflated - got one for my wife before labour
[14:55] <DJones> otherwise the amount of storage the retailer would need could be pretty big
[14:55] <Laney> yep
[14:55] <ali1234> they could send it inflated with helium to save on postage
[14:55] <Laney> i was visualising a big basket of them
[14:56] <Laney> as in the retailer pumps them up and has 5-6 out at a time
[14:56] <Laney> but yay for transportation, boo for me having to pump it up
[14:56] <danfish> ...now if you filled 5 or 6 of those with helium you could fly home ;)
[14:57] <danfish> weeeeeeeee
[15:02] <MartijnVdS> danfish: I'm in SPAAAACE
[15:04] <DJones> In space or spaced out from inhaling helium?
[15:05] <MartijnVdS> DJones: ask HazRPG :)
[15:05] <oimon> anyone know who i should contact about snail mail spam sent through the post (i.e. stamped) to my address from virgin media? sent to "the occupier"
[15:05] <danfish> MartijnVdS: your from Holland, so that could mean balloons or some wacky backy :)
[15:06] <MartijnVdS> danfish: Despite stereotypes, most people here haven't tried drugs (other than "normal" smoking/drinking :)
[15:06] <danfish> oimon: http://www.stopjunkmail.org.uk/guide/default.php
[15:07] <danfish> MartijnVdS: I must stop stereotyping - I suspect more UK tourists indulge than the locals :)
[15:07] <czajkowski> Aloha
[15:08] <MartijnVdS> danfish: I'm sure :)
[15:08] <oimon> danfish: http://stopjunkmailblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/how-to-stop-to-occupier-junk-mail-from.html << seems there is no fix
[15:08] <MartijnVdS> danfish: any tourists really ;)
[15:08] <davmor2> czajkowski: Huzzah it's a party now for sure
[15:08] <oimon> i've requested to VM that they stop
[15:08] <oimon> but no use
[15:08] <DJones> oimon: Is it addressed to the occupier & your house number & street, or just the occupier
[15:08] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[15:08] <czajkowski> davmor2: howdy
[15:08] <oimon> the occupier + my address
[15:09] <DJones> oimon: Things like that, I just put back in the envelope & post back to whoever sent it with no stamp on
[15:09] <oimon> DJones: it annoys the heck out of me tho
[15:09] <oimon> especially as i will never use VM again
[15:10] <oimon> VM are exploiting a loophole
[15:13] <gord> wonder if there is a good Fibre to cabinet isp yet
[15:15] <danfish> oimon: looks like you're right. I get that from VM and the irony is I am a customer!
[15:25] <brobostigon> can i use a pipe | to put the output from a prog into a text file?
[15:25] <dutchie> http://lwn.net/Articles/440440/ well that news is not going to be overshadowed at all...
[15:25] <dwatkins> brobostigon: yes, with tee
[15:25] <dutchie> brobostigon: prog > file
[15:25] <brobostigon> thnk you dwatkins and dutchie
[15:27] <dwatkins> welcome, brobostigon
[15:34] <X3N> dutchie: it's more like, "huh Slackware still exists"
[15:34] <X3N> "why"
[15:36] <dutchie> heh, true
[15:43] <czajkowski> AlanBell: ping
[15:44] <oimon> things i have never seen irl: slackware, arch, gentoo
[15:45] <DJones> slackware is nice in a do-it-yourself sort of way
[15:45] <oimon> i.e. nothing i'd ever want in an office
[15:46] <DJones> :) ./configure....... or sudo apt-get install ....
[15:50] <KrisDouglas> Hello, Is there a way to move the location of the Ubuntu Natty menu?
[15:51] <ali1234> no
[15:51] <KrisDouglas> I have 2 24" monitors and it sits in the middle, it's very hard to hit the top left of the first monitor on the right, cause it flips over to the other screen
[15:51] <ali1234> nvidia?
[15:51] <ali1234> you can change which screen it is on with nvidia settings
[15:51] <ali1234> find the option "make this the primary display" and tick it. unity menu will appear on that one
[15:52] <KrisDouglas> Right, thanks.
[15:54] <oimon> slashdot are too busy reporting apple stories that they squeeze the ubuntu + slackware release into one story
[15:54] <ali1234> slashdot gets worse every day
[15:55] <gord> stopped reading years ago, just trollbait: the website
[15:56] <ali1234> the comments have always been bad, now the stories are bad too
[15:56] <KrisDouglas> All sorted
[15:56] <ali1234> cool
[15:57] <KrisDouglas> I cannot believe 11.04 doesn't have a failsafe graphics engine
[15:57] <ali1234> it does
[15:57] <KrisDouglas> I had to SSH into my pc to get it to boot!
[15:57] <ali1234> lol
[15:57] <gord> it always will
[15:57] <KrisDouglas> NVIDIA graphics driver, had to download it over ssh and then I could see a console
[15:57] <ali1234> well that's a bug
[15:57] <KrisDouglas> see a GUI**
[15:57] <KrisDouglas> My colleague has reported it AFAIK
[15:58] <gord> sounds like nouveau had problems with your card in 2d mode
[15:58] <KrisDouglas> Now i just wish the icon size of the unity menu could be reduced slightly.
[15:58] <gord> it can
[15:59] <gord> install ccsm and you'll find that in the unity settings
[15:59] <ali1234> gord: a lot of cards will fail totally (black screen) if you try to do any 3d with nouveau, many of them (like mine) are blacklisted, i guess this one isn't
[15:59] <gord> ali1234, 3d is not enabled with nouveau by default
[15:59] <gord> you have to activate it
[16:00] <ali1234> that's pretty messed up then
[16:00] <ali1234> there's a bug about my card anyway
[16:00] <KrisDouglas> Compiz config?
[16:00] <ali1234> actually, all gt240 cards according to the bug
[16:00] <scoundrel50a> we,, its a bit jumpy, and takes a bit long to load stuff, but I upgraded my acer aspire one to Natty, as it was running Netbook Remix ok, and it seems to be ok so far. Very surprised, as I cant upgrade my other Acer because of the backlight problem. Quite pleased with that.
[16:01] <KrisDouglas> It's 9600GT
[16:04] <KrisDouglas> I really really dislike the way the menu bar merges into the toolbar at the top, is there a way to stop that from happening?
[16:05] <KrisDouglas> I know that is part of unity, but when you are working with a crapload of machines, it really doesn't help
[16:07] <oimon> KrisDouglas: you mean, disable the global menu?
[16:07] <KrisDouglas> yes
[16:08] <KrisDouglas> oimon, sorry about the poor terminology, I am not familiar with the new Ubuntu yet.
[16:08] <oimon> KrisDouglas: there's a few ways, here's one i wrote down so i would remember http://oimon.wordpress.com/2011/04/13/disable-global-menu-in-ubuntu-unity-natty-narwhal-release/
[16:09] <KrisDouglas> oimon, thank you
[16:09] <KrisDouglas> Am I right in thinking we can no longer have Gnome widgets on the panels?
[16:10] <oimon> they are disabled, but you can whitelist them
[16:10] <gord> no
[16:10] <gord> you can no longer have gnome widgets on panels
[16:10] <KrisDouglas> I am really starting to dislike this release, nothing is configurable. I liked gnome because I could mess with it's layout. This is set in stone :(
[16:11] <ali1234> join the club
[16:11] <KrisDouglas> Am I right in thinking they are doing a gnome-only disk of Ubuntu?
[16:11] <gord> give it time, you may ome to like it
[16:11] <KrisDouglas> Or are we going to have to wait for a nice third party gnobuntu or something.
[16:11] <oimon> KrisDouglas: it is possible to access the old gnome via the login menu
[16:11] <KrisDouglas> Aha
[16:11] <KrisDouglas> Ok
[16:12] <KrisDouglas> I will give it a chance anyway
[16:12] <KrisDouglas> but this is my work PC and it sits on my desk and does everything that I could possibly need to do, well, at least it couled.
[16:12] <KrisDouglas> could*
[16:12] <ali1234> been using it nearly a week now and i haven't found anything i like about it yet
[16:12] <gord> yeah but you don't like anything ;)
[16:13] <ali1234> so i changed something in ccsm and now the top panel is just a black bar
[16:13] <KrisDouglas> I can no longer easily change my pc's clock speed, I can't have my system monitor applet =/
[16:13] <ali1234> how do i get it back to normal?
[16:13] <gord> i think i remember there being an indicator to do that KrisDouglas
[16:13] <KrisDouglas> For clock speed?
[16:13] <gord> ali1234, step one would be unchanging what you changed
[16:13] <gord> KrisDouglas, yes
[16:13] <ali1234> gord: i did
[16:14] <ali1234> it didn't help
[16:14] <KrisDouglas> gord, I have just found the PPA for one, I think I may have to be eternally grateful. So will my office's aircon.
[16:15] <KrisDouglas> is it safe to modify some of the PPA repos I have to use the previous ubuntu release?
[16:15] <KrisDouglas> for example, terminator does not have a natty ppa yet.
[16:16] <gord> never "safe" - i wouldn't do it if you absolutely need to have a machine running. though if you absolutely need to have a machine running, i wouldn't run ppa's at all
[16:16] <gord> a ppa is basically letting someone else install software on your system after all
[16:17] <KrisDouglas> Agreed, I just use the Chromium and the Terminator PPA
[16:17] <gord> i would hazard a guess that they would be okay, but well, who knows what they will do in the future
[16:17] <gord> Ng, no natty terminator ppa?
[16:18] <KrisDouglas> Doesn't appear to be
[16:19] <oimon> apt-cache search terminator : terminator - multiple GNOME terminals in one window
[16:19] <Ng> gord: I've not had time to try natty yet :(
[16:19] <oimon> seems to be in the repos - do you need a super new version or something
[16:19] <Ng> although natty ought to have the latest release
[16:19] <gord> :(
[16:19] <oimon> !terminator natty
[16:19] <lubotu3`> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[16:19] <oimon> !info terminator natty
[16:19] <lubotu3`> terminator (source: terminator): multiple GNOME terminals in one window. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.95-1 (natty), package size 226 kB, installed size 1884 kB
[16:20] <oimon> in other news, arnie has signed up for another film..
[16:20] <dwatkins> I thought he ran California
[16:20] <ali1234> not any more
[16:20] <KrisDouglas> oimon, oh.
[16:22] <oimon> anyone got opinions on compatible toners? hp want £90 for a 05X cartridge..some amazon shop is selling compatibles for £35
[16:23] <oimon> refilled refurbs
[16:23] <ali1234> they're OK but i can't eat a whole one
[16:24] <oimon> bearing in mind the printer only costs £250, using £35 toner might break my printer but after using 4 of them i break even
[16:24] <ali1234> i dunno why it would break
[16:24] <KrisDouglas> oimon, It won't break it
[16:24] <KrisDouglas> the quality just isn't as guarenteed on the prints.
[16:24] <KrisDouglas> We have used compatible toner in our hp for years.
[16:25] <oimon> they are refilled refurbs rather than new compatibles
[16:25] <oimon> "Fully remanufactured  in a multi-million pound ISO9001 certified factory. Properly cleaned,  refurbished and re-filled with high quality toner. Not just a re-filled  cartridge."
[16:25] <X3N> I've refilled my own toner, really not very difficult
[16:25] <X3N> and much cheaper
[16:25] <oimon> probably a bit more cancerous than buy your own
[16:26] <KrisDouglas> Is toner carcinogenic?
[16:26] <ali1234> probably
[16:27] <KrisDouglas> that was a stupid question, I am certain it is considering what it does to the outside of your skin when you break a toner cart.
[16:27] <oimon> "An unpublished study at the University of Rostock in Germany is reported  to have found that the microscopic particles in toners are  carcinogenic, similar to asbestos. Several technicians who had been  working with printers and copiers on a daily basis were observed for  several years. They showed increased lung problems." source wikipedia
[16:27] <ali1234> yeah you'd have to inhale the dust i would expect
[16:27]  * KrisDouglas throws laserjet out of the window
[16:28] <oimon> as a rule of thumb i never sit within 3m of a laser printer
[16:28] <KrisDouglas> I put mine in the office of my colleague
[16:28] <KrisDouglas> Nice and healthy in my office
[16:29] <X3N> the radiation from laser printers isn't good for you either
[16:29] <X3N> I'm sure there is some kind of H&S on how far away one should be placed from people
[16:29] <KrisDouglas> I wasn't aware of radiation they produce?
[16:29] <BigRedS> well, they radiate head...
[16:30] <KrisDouglas> and steam if the room is cold enough
[16:30] <BigRedS> heat, even
[16:31] <oimon> if any of you smoke then the argument is moot anyway
[16:32] <oimon> or take the tube/live in london
[16:32] <dwatkins> oimon: I have suspected as much for many years
[16:32] <dwatkins> about the particles causing lung problems
[16:32] <X3N> http://www.tssa.org.uk/article-47.php3?id_article=982
[16:33] <oimon> weather tomorrow: heavy rain
[16:33] <oimon> oh well
[16:34] <BigRedS> Hm
[16:34] <oimon> you can't have everything willy
[16:34] <BigRedS> What causes frequent re-corruption of db tables?
[16:34] <X3N> memory corruption
[16:36] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: innodb + large + random server restarts
[16:37] <BigRedS> yeah, there's one website which frequently has crashed tables
[16:37] <BigRedS> which I go in and fix, and I want to blame bad code
[16:37] <dogmatic69> if innodb is not shut down properly they die
[16:37] <BigRedS> nah, no restarts for a while
[16:38] <X3N> you need to find out what you're actually fixing and then work from there
[16:40] <BigRedS> I'm not going to fix it, I just want to be more constructive than just saying "I think it's bad code"
[16:40] <X3N> send them the log?
[16:41] <BigRedS> yeah, that's the plan. I just wondered what sort of things I was accusing him of
[16:41] <X3N> try a bigot
[16:42] <X3N> or call him fat
[16:44] <BigRedS> haha
[16:49] <KrisDouglas> Well, my install is hosed :)
[16:50] <X3N> welldone, that was quick ;)
[16:50] <shauno> not sure there was a sweepstake for that one
[16:50] <KrisDouglas> my track record for Ubuntu upgrades is never good
[16:50] <KrisDouglas> always works better when I do a fresh install.
[16:51] <X3N> the upgrade works better when you do a fresh install? ;)
[16:51] <KrisDouglas> you know what I mean :)
[16:51] <KrisDouglas> When i manually reinstall everything
[16:51] <X3N> agh banshee is being, well banshee
[16:52]  * X3N shows it the apt-get remove / the finger
[16:52] <KrisDouglas> only 55gig to backup and i have an SSD so tis fast enough
[16:52] <KrisDouglas> time to rape the ubuntu servers and download an installer disk
[16:53] <KrisDouglas> The uk one is intermittently broken for me.
[16:55] <X3N> I think i'm going to have to move to fedora anyway now :(
[16:56] <oimon> fedora LOL
[16:56] <KrisDouglas> Why#
[16:56] <oimon> X3N: you'll come back screaming
[16:57] <X3N> I need a working GNOME 3 desktop
[16:58] <X3N> a) I genuinely prefer GNOME shell b) I work on it so it doesn't make sense to use hacked up ppas
[16:58] <KrisDouglas> Makes sense
[16:58] <KrisDouglas> I never really got on with RH as a distro
[16:58] <KrisDouglas> Same with fedora
[16:59] <KrisDouglas> Deb and Ubu work well for me
[16:59] <X3N> yeah, I don't like lots of the defaults or yum/rpm
[16:59] <X3N> maybe debian experimental is workable
[17:00] <oimon> does fedora use the fast yum + repos yet that uses deltas instead of entire packages?
[17:01] <BigRedS> I keep trying Fedora but I always end up finding it so incredibly tedious
[17:01] <X3N> I think i'll try debian experimental next
[17:02] <oimon> x3n i build gnome shell on ubuntu by hand
[17:02] <oimon> went fine
[17:02] <X3N> so do i at the moment
[17:02] <X3N> it's not a very sustainable solution
[17:03] <X3N> plus it's just replicating the work that can be done by using a different distro
[17:03] <X3N> I'd like to stick with Ubuntu and the community, but the decisions made have forced me out
[17:07] <gord> i work on unity, i build unity by hand, i dont' understand why you think building something by hand is not sustainable. its what you do when you work on something.
[17:07] <zleap> hi
[17:08] <zleap> where can i find a list of all the files including the md5 sums for ubuntu,  i can't find a link to it on the ubuntu site
[17:08] <X3N> gord: if it was just gnome-shell then yes, i'd agree
[17:08] <BigRedS> X3N: if you're going to experimental, you almost might as well be Ok with hand building things
[17:09] <X3N> gord: it's other parts of the gnome stack which have been modified to work in unity which would conflict
[17:09] <gord> X3N, ubuntu is *never* gonna have all the up todate gnome libs, your always gonna end up building things yourself. there are four five components of unity that i build myself often because it takes time to get in to ubuntu
[17:10] <X3N> gord: but the fall back stuff for natty is gnome2 stuff right? so if I want to get the dependencies I'll either have to compile them or use a ppa
[17:12] <gord> for some, not all, it depends on what libs gnomeshell needs that aren't in natty. like i said, ubuntu (no os) is gonna have all the libs you need - apart from maybe a rolling release
[17:12] <gord> learn how to use pbuilder
[17:12] <gord> gnome devs love it
[17:13] <X3N> I use jhbuild, but, either way I keep my desktop relatively stable and do dev work in a seperate environment, but it's still useful to be running and have most of the development stuff provided by the distro
[17:13] <bigcalm> Fetching file 8 of 1433 at 353kB/s
[17:14] <ali1234> you could look at OBS too
[17:14]  * bigcalm is silly for starting the process now
[17:14] <Myrtti> XFCE all the way ♥
[17:14] <Myrtti> Xubuntu ♥
[17:15] <X3N> quick example, rhythbox in natty depends on all the gnome2 stuff, rhythmbox in the ppa depends on gnome3 stuff
[17:15] <X3N> then there are the API breaks that are in the system level too
[17:26] <X3N> I'm not saying it difficult or impossible to work around, it's just what is a distro if it's not the packages and configuration you need
[17:39] <Azelphur> I just had quite possibly the most geeky/awesome idea ever. Wouldn't it be cool if you could mount a small, really widescreen netbook on your arm, on rails
[17:39] <Azelphur> so you could slide it out from your sleeve and use it, then slide it back xD
[17:40] <Azelphur> It'd have to be insanely widescreen though, pretty much 2:1 aspect ratio
[17:47] <ali1234> Azelphur: you'd be like the nerd version of robert de niro
[17:47] <Azelphur> only more awesome :D
[17:48] <Azelphur> ali1234: is this gadget in a movie somewhere? I'm sure I've seen it in a movie.
[17:48] <jacobw> :|
[17:48] <jacobw> i thought i had the worst tech idea when i thought of a doorbell that sends you an sms message :p
[17:49] <jacobw> brb
[17:49] <Azelphur> jacobw: mine can do that, mine executes a shell script!
[17:49] <ali1234> Azelphur: taxi driver. except it's a gun
[17:49] <Azelphur> oh :p
[17:49] <Azelphur> to hell with guns I want computers :D
[17:49] <winterweaver> so I want to download and install natty (Feeling all bubbly inside) ... I have an alienware. Should I download 64 or 32 bit? Many years ago I remember 64bit being quite buggy. Is this still the case?
[17:50] <Azelphur> winterweaver: 64bit is fine
[17:50]  * Azelphur has been running 64bit for like 3 years now
[17:50] <winterweaver> awesome thx
[17:50] <Azelphur> winterweaver: how much ram does your alienware have?
[17:50] <winterweaver> 2gb
[17:50] <winterweaver> no wait
[17:51] <Azelphur> wouldn't bother with 64bit then
[17:51] <winterweaver> lol... I dont even know I never bother looking at it
[17:51] <Azelphur> winterweaver: free -m will tell you
[17:52] <winterweaver> it's closed on the table next to me ^_^ ... I'll check real quick
[17:52] <Azelphur> lol
[17:52] <Azelphur> winterweaver: if it's >= 4GB use 64bit
[17:53] <winterweaver> k
[17:53] <winterweaver> I didn't take any of the upgrade options when buying it, so the bog standard setup is with 2gb I believe
[17:53] <Azelphur> or if you have a graphics card with an insane amount of memory and 3GB RAM but that's unlikely :p
[17:54] <Azelphur> fun
[17:54] <Azelphur> I got one of them for my brother, he runs windows on it
[17:54] <Azelphur> Myself I have a XPS M1730, my next laptop will probably be an alienware though
[17:54] <winterweaver> yup it's 2gb .... (m11x
[17:55] <Azelphur> haha the m11x's are fun :D
[17:55] <Azelphur> so yea probably use 32bit then, it doesn't matter too much but there's no point in 64bit unless you have >=4GB really
[17:56] <winterweaver> unfortunately I wont be able to make use of the switchable GPU's till nvidia actually decides to support linux better. But I dont mind since I'll use ubuntu just for work, and will dual boot windows for growling gaming
[17:56] <Azelphur> hehe, I'm one of the few nutters that games in Ubuntu
[17:57] <winterweaver> If I had a Desktop, I might try it again... but i've just had hassles on laptops. so I just dual boot it
[17:59] <Psychobudgie> xchat is broken in natty or to be more specific unity
[17:59] <Psychobudgie> yay, go shuttleworth
[17:59] <Azelphur> winterweaver: I do most of my stuff on my PC, my laptop is just for rare occasions :p
[17:59] <Psychobudgie> no app icon appears in unity which means the only way to bring it back if I minimise it is to alt tab
[18:00] <Psychobudgie> awesome
[18:00] <shauno> silly pidgeon. what you running unity for?
[18:00] <Azelphur> fun
[18:00] <winterweaver> erm... where is that download page that has the list of images to download? I'm looking for the torrent
[18:01] <Psychobudgie> I was running gnome 3 up until this morning
[18:01] <Psychobudgie> then thought maybe I'll try unity again
[18:01] <Psychobudgie> I shouldn't listen to my thoughts any more
[18:02] <X3N> Psychobudgie: you were having unpure thoughts
[18:02] <winterweaver> oh wait I found it
[18:02] <Azelphur> ali1234: I've been trying to find something like it, there doesn't appear to be anything, madness :(
[18:02] <Azelphur> I want one. D:
[18:03] <Psychobudgie> add to that, banshee runs like a complete and utter dog
[18:03] <Azelphur> it's difficult to search for thanks to all the major keywords being heavily used in other areas eg arm or sleeve xD
[18:03] <Psychobudgie> it's currently trying to find album art for my entire collection which seems to be killing it
[18:09] <duvelhedz> AlanBell, do you still want me to brink the CD drive with me later?
[18:15] <jacobw> banshee has always run slowly
[18:17] <winterweaver> i've never really had issues with banshee... then again. I only listen to online radio stations. So it doesn't really have much to do on my machine
[18:19] <scoundrel50a> How do I get Dropbox to work in Natty, it wont show inm the bar, and I cant get it to connect.
[18:22] <Psychobudgie> just figured out why banshee was running slow
[18:22] <winterweaver>  hmm?
[18:22] <Psychobudgie> there were two banshee's running
[18:22] <Psychobudgie> how, I have no idea
[18:22] <winterweaver> probably middle clicked the icon?
[18:22] <Psychobudgie> possibly
[18:23] <Psychobudgie> shouldn't allow me to do it though
[18:23] <Psychobudgie> cannot think of a single instance where having two banshee's open would be a good thing
[18:23] <winterweaver> probably
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: 2 sound cards, different rooms :)
[18:24] <winterweaver> O.o
[18:25] <Psychobudgie> still wouldn't be a good thing
[18:25] <Psychobudgie> banshee seems to crawl into a corner and die when it has more than one occurence open
[18:26] <Psychobudgie> to be perfectly honest I'm finding the xchat issue more annoying
[18:27] <Psychobudgie> keep minimising it and forgetting that it's already open and launching it again
[18:28] <Psychobudgie> brb, gonna try something
[18:31] <daniel_> Can we have more workspaces in 11.04? Would like to add more
[18:31] <winterweaver> daniel_ I dont think so
[18:32] <winterweaver> but I dont know either
[18:32] <winterweaver> what happens if you add more workspaces in the compiz config?
[18:32] <daniel_> hmm will check
[18:32] <zleap> i think there are workspaces
[18:33] <zleap> i am sure there was a button on the side bar thing to switch
[18:33] <winterweaver> zleap, yes, there are... but by default there are only 4... and daniel_ wants to have more than that :)
[18:33] <zleap> ok
[18:33] <zleap> i am off, chat later
[18:34] <Psychobudgie> tried irc in empathy and, no, just no, god no
[18:34] <winterweaver> lol
[18:35] <winterweaver> I've tried it in pidgin a while back... and also had a bad experience... xchat remains king
[18:36] <winterweaver> only thing, I always get confused with the two different xchat versions in the repo
[18:37] <Psychobudgie> thus this unity bug being annoying
[18:38] <winterweaver> Psychobudgie, does it happen with any other apps? or just xchat?
[18:38] <Psychobudgie> just xchat
[18:38] <Psychobudgie> both xchat and xchat-gnome
[18:38] <Psychobudgie> same issue
[18:38] <daniel_> might have screwed up my top taskbar compiz doesnt play nice with unity
[18:38] <Psychobudgie> no unity process icon
[18:38] <winterweaver> what happens if you change the icons set?
[18:39] <Psychobudgie> nothing
[18:39] <Psychobudgie> doesn't help
[18:39] <Psychobudgie> the icon is there in alt-tab
[18:39] <daniel_> if i swap workspaces i briefly get my unity icon with the file drop down box etc. but when i sit on one screen
[18:40] <Psychobudgie> it's definitely a unity issue
[18:40] <daniel_> i get yellow green and blue lines
[18:40] <winterweaver> I see bugs being filed :)
[18:41] <Psychobudgie> I already have
[18:41] <winterweaver> I'm currently creating the startup usb disk to play with
[18:41] <Psychobudgie> brb
[18:42] <daniel_> see a bug already files apparently have to boot into recovery and back again have to wait till
[18:42] <daniel_> openshots done
[18:43] <Psychobudgie> fixed it
[18:44] <Psychobudgie> uninstalled xchat, deleted everything that had anything to do with xchat, rebooted, reinstalled and copied my settings back and voila it appears to be fixed for the moment
[18:44] <Psychobudgie> however it started well like this earlier before going to pot very quickly
[18:49] <winterweaver> Psychobudgie, then make sure you dont go to the pot again :)
[18:50] <Psychobudgie> @_@
[18:52] <Psychobudgie> still a bug though
[18:52] <Psychobudgie> anything that requires a reboot to fix is either a bug or windows
[18:53] <dragonkeeper> is there a command that will merge all the  data in a multiple txt files into 1 txt file ?
[18:54] <bigcalm> Merg or append?
[18:54] <bigcalm> e
[18:54] <bigcalm> cat file_b.txt >> file_a.txt
[18:55] <bigcalm> That will stick file_b.txt on the end of file_a.txt
[18:56] <jacobw> I quite like Unity
[18:56]  * jacobw runs
[18:57] <sirgad> anyone know of an IRC room for UCK?
[18:57] <jacobw> uck?
[18:57] <sirgad> Ubuntu Creation Kit
[18:57] <sirgad> like nlite for ub
[18:58] <dragonkeeper> bigcalm  so if i want  file1 + file2 + file3 to be in 1 file  1 after another      use  cat file1 >> file2   ?
[18:59] <dwatkins> cat a b c > newfile
[18:59] <dragonkeeper> oki
[18:59] <dwatkins> note: newfile will be erased and rewritten if it already exists
[19:00] <dwatkins> >> appends, > creates and writes
[19:00] <scoundrel50a> hi, does anybody know how to get dropbox to work inj Natty?
[19:00] <sirgad> anyone know how to manually edit files on a Ubuntu Live CD to change settings?
[19:01] <dwatkins> sirgad: what kind of settings?
[19:01] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Ask me what? If I'm in space?
[19:02] <sirgad> well, top of the list is the default wireless driver used, next is defaulting to two-finger/horizontal touchpad scrolling.
[19:04] <jacobw> I don't think there is a default wireless driver, as far as I know drivers are loaded depending on what hardware the installer detects
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ...
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you're spaced-out you mean :P
[19:05] <winterweaver> oh nice I like the unity scrollbars
[19:05] <sirgad> to put it into context: my ISO boots up on my MacBook Pro and offers me restricted drivers (ie. proprietary ones) as an install option, but using them requires restart - which is piontless on an ISO :) So, I need to make them the default permanently.
[19:08] <jacobw> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro
[19:08] <duvelhedz> sirgad, use unetbootin on your mac to write the iso and create persistance that will save changes
[19:09] <sirgad> @duvelhedz: and once the changes i want to make are save, can i then disable persistence?
[19:09] <duvelhedz> persistance keeps the changes on a usb
[19:09] <duvelhedz> along with the OS so it will be much faster to boot
[19:10] <sirgad> on a separate device basically?
[19:10] <sirgad> but hang on, according to Unetbootin: "Microsoft Windows 2000/XP/Vista/7, or Linux, or Mac OS X 10.5+. Note that resulting USB drives are bootable only on PCs (not on Macs)."
[19:10] <duvelhedz> booted for me inabout 10 seconds on an e6410, was well surprised
[19:11] <VlRUS> Hello
[19:11] <duvelhedz> could you chainload the usb with PLOP boot manager?
[19:11] <VlRUS> Why if i set "new wave" theme in Gnome desktop in 11.04 and If i click the left corner the window title dissapeears?
[19:12] <sirgad> @duvelhedz: lol wut? over my head i'm afraid.
[19:12] <HazRPG> What time did Natty actually get released then... *pokes* http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/NattySweepstake
[19:12] <duvelhedz> plop is a bootloader on a cd, you could try burning it up and holding down the c key with the disc and usb in
[19:13] <sirgad> Hmm, that's all getting a bit contrived tbh. This is supposed to be a portable secure banking solution.
[19:13] <sirgad> Ok, let me try something else.
[19:14] <sirgad> How about just altering the gconfs to default to two-finger and horizontal scrolling?
[19:14] <HazRPG> hmm... anyone I know here going to oggcamp? (noticing that more tickets have gone up)
[19:14] <brobostigon> HazRPG: o/
[19:15] <sirgad> btw duvelhedz, you belgian?
[19:15] <HazRPG> (notices brobostigon and popey on there)
[19:15] <duvelhedz> irish sirgad
[19:15] <HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
[19:15] <brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
[19:15] <sirgad> ah, kk. you just like Belgian beer! :P
[19:15] <duvelhedz> oh yeah, ive had that moniker for years!
[19:16] <sirgad> it's good stuff, one of my favourites.
[19:16] <brobostigon> HazRPG: it is going to be damn scary, but hopefully ok.
[19:17] <winterweaver> so... I noticed that every ubuntu distro runs my battery out a lot faster than windows. Is there anything I can do to improve battery life?
[19:17] <HazRPG> brobostigon: it should be fine :)
[19:17] <duvelhedz> Have to head lads, best of luck with your MBP install sirgad
[19:17] <sirgad> ta duvelhedz
[19:17] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i hope so, yes, :)
[19:17] <HazRPG> noticing AlanBell on there too
[19:17] <HazRPG> don't think I recognise most folk by their real names xD
[19:18] <brobostigon> HazRPG: remeber, the organisers, dont need tickets.
[19:18] <HazRPG> brobostigon: Ah, so both Laura's should be there then
[19:18] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i would guess so, yes.
[19:18] <HazRPG> brobostigon: still don't know most by their proper names though :P
[19:19] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i know a couple, but not many.
[19:19] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: You going to OggCamp?
[19:20] <HazRPG> brobostigon: I'm tempted, Surrey is just miles away though...
[19:20] <HazRPG> brobostigon: Might have a look to see how much rooms cost, etc
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: can't make it -- have to be in Riga on the Monday after
[19:21] <brobostigon> HazRPG: for me, its a coupleof hours train journey, and staying somewhere for one night, cant be much.
[19:21] <HazRPG> brobostigon: think it's a minimum 5hr train for me
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: (that's Riga, Latvia)
[19:21] <brobostigon> HazRPG: ys, that is alot longer.
[19:21] <HazRPG> brobostigon: hmm, I wonder if a plain would be cheaper xD
[19:22] <HazRPG> plane*
[19:22] <brobostigon> HazRPG: maybe.
[19:33] <daubers> o/
[19:33] <jacobw> http://i.imgur.com/Zb9tJ.png
[19:34] <dutchie> lo daubers and jacobw
[19:34] <jacobw> hi dutchie
[19:34] <jacobw> hows its going?
[19:34] <dutchie> not too bad
[19:34] <dutchie> looking forward to a fun day of exams tomorrow :(
[19:35] <jacobw> argh :(
[19:35] <jacobw> hi issyl0
[19:39] <jacobw> hmm, banshee in unity still doesn't write metadata to files by default :|
[19:40] <HazRPG> brobostigon: apparently I can get to oggcamp by train for £18.50 ... but if I want to come back its going to cost £161! That makes no sense!
[19:41] <gord> HazRPG, o_O where are you booking this?
[19:42] <HazRPG> http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/fares/tickets
[19:42] <gord> i mean, £161 is like first class london prime time ticket prices
[19:42] <HazRPG> I can't put in the oggcamp dates however for some reason
[19:42] <gord> national rail site sucks, you can't send links :)
[19:42] <gord> "Sorry, your session has timed out"
[19:42] <daubers> HazRPG: Where to where?
[19:42] <HazRPG> CAR to FHN
[19:43] <brobostigon> HazRPG: wow, yes, thats weird.
[19:43] <HazRPG> I put in 19th Jul to 20th Jul, cos those are the only dates it would allow me to put as a maximum
[19:43] <gord> FHN?
[19:43] <HazRPG> Carlisle to Farnham
[19:43] <gord> oh FNH
[19:44] <HazRPG> ah sorry
[19:44] <brobostigon> HazRPG: my cousin, lives in carlisle.
[19:44] <HazRPG> brobostigon: oh really?
[19:44] <HazRPG> brobostigon: heh maybe I know him, what's his name?
[19:45] <HazRPG> still can't believe I can get there cheaper then it would be for me to return!
[19:45] <brobostigon> HazRPG: william.
[19:45] <HazRPG> I can imagine driving won't be any cheaper
[19:45] <gord> returns on the 20th are 31 when i search
[19:45] <gord> try again
[19:45] <HazRPG> brobostigon: same last name?
[19:45] <gord> £41
[19:45] <gord> £31!
[19:45] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yes.
[19:45] <gord> typing is hard :(
[19:47] <issyl0> Hi jacobw!
[19:47] <daubers> gord: Design a new interface to make it easy
[19:47] <HazRPG> gord: heh I got £109.10 that time
[19:47] <gord> =\ my life is not a punchline!
[19:48] <HazRPG> might go into a trainstation and see how much it costs from there
[19:49] <HazRPG> might be even cheaper since its August I'm after not July
[19:51] <HazRPG> apparently it'll cost me £118.20 at current fuel prices to drive down and back
[19:52] <brobostigon> HazRPG: if you are driving, you could come past, and get me, :)
[19:52] <HazRPG> ^_^
[19:52] <brobostigon> HazRPG: and i willgive you somefuel money.
[19:53] <HazRPG> brobostigon: \o/
[19:53] <brobostigon> HazRPG: save us both some money.
[19:54] <HazRPG> if I can get at least 2-3 other people, would be awesome!
[19:54] <brobostigon> HazRPG: yes.
[19:54] <HazRPG> might go ask around and see if anyone wants to go :)
[19:54] <brobostigon> :)
[19:54] <HazRPG> *picks up blowhorn*
[19:56] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i am just north of oxford, what route would be the best fromwhere you are?
[19:57] <dutchie> carlisle, i'd guess m6/m40
[19:57] <dutchie> which would go right past oxford(shire)
[19:58] <HazRPG> bah, apparently my best friend can't go cos someone has already booked the 13th off
[19:58] <HazRPG> dutchie: you be correct m6/m40 :)
[19:59] <brobostigon> brb,
[20:03] <HazRPG> sod it, going to put me down for a ticket regardless and worry about getting there over the next month or so :)
[20:03] <HazRPG> (considering its gone from 100 extra tickets down to 24 already!)
[20:03] <ali1234> i recommend you go by coach
[20:04] <ali1234> it's incredibly cheap
[20:04] <ali1234> it will take 7 hours though
[20:04] <ali1234> but with the money you save you can get a hotel room :)
[20:04] <HazRPG> ali1234: So I'd probably have to go down on the Friday that way
[20:04] <HazRPG> indeed!
[20:05] <ali1234> booked in advance it might be as little as £10 each way
[20:07] <HazRPG> ali1234: hopefully :)
[20:10]  * brobostigon looks at coashes aswell.
[20:10] <brobostigon> coaches*
[20:12] <ali1234> ugh
[20:12] <ali1234> launcher menu is not visible on screen but something is blocking mouse events over the area it normally occupies
[20:13] <ali1234> also my top panel is still invible after the easlier incident
[20:13] <ali1234> i can't see any global menus even
[20:15] <Azelphur> yay, missed a quote when messing with my mysql database and broke everything
[20:15] <Azelphur> daily backups to the rescue \o/
[20:15] <Monotoko> hello :)
[20:16] <HazRPG> Azelphur: heh, good thing really
[20:16] <brobostigon> ok, national express dont do anything on the few days before, to farnham.
[20:16] <HazRPG> Monotoko: hey
[20:16] <Azelphur> indeed
[20:16] <Azelphur> Only thing is I have a --all-databases backup, what's the best way of extracting a single table outta that?
[20:16] <Monotoko> In the US at the moment...but UK born and bred :P
[20:16] <X3N> http://erkie.github.com/
[20:17] <brobostigon> ok, anyother coach companies that might fit the bill ?
[20:17] <ali1234> Azelphur: edit with text editor
[20:17] <ali1234> try not mess it up this time though
[20:17] <Azelphur> ali1234: downloading, opening in a text editor, a 520MB file = probably bad idea
[20:17] <Azelphur> gedit would probably choke on that a bit
[20:17] <ali1234> do it on the server
[20:17] <ali1234> (lol)
[20:17] <Azelphur> xD
[20:18] <ali1234> use .... vi
[20:18] <Azelphur> how could I even find the right table in this thing? it's huge xD
[20:18] <danfish> lcd /usr/share/doc/asterisk-sounds-extra
[20:18] <Azelphur> If worst comes to worst I'll have to dl the dump and run a local mysql server for a second and extract the relevant table
[20:18] <danfish> opps - fail :)
[20:18] <ali1234> Azelphur: yes
[20:18] <ali1234> except do that on the server
[20:19] <Azelphur> ali1234: but I can't run 2 mysql servers at the same time? XD
[20:19] <ali1234> dump everything except the broken table, import old backup, import backup you just made
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> \o/ referential integrity
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> oh wait, mysql
[20:19] <ali1234> i missed s step: drop everything except the tabel you want to fix
[20:20] <Azelphur> urgh, that involves shutting down everything that's using the other tables xD
[20:20] <brobostigon> coaches, fail.
[20:20] <Azelphur> which would mean 4 websites 4 gameservers and an IRC server, probably not a good idea
[20:21] <Monotoko> Azelphur, you need server space?
[20:21] <Azelphur> nope?
[20:21] <Azelphur> I already got server space :D
[20:21] <Spudulike> Anyone still in The Porterthouse
[20:21] <Azelphur> Monotoko: why you ask?
[20:21] <ali1234> Azelphur: figure out what your bad command did, and undo it by hand
[20:22] <Azelphur> ali1234: I know what it did, It reset every single ban reason in the database, so not undoable by hand
[20:22] <Azelphur> I'll just download the dump and load it locally, then pull the right table I guess
[20:22] <ali1234> actually i think mysql has an option that does what you want
[20:22] <Monotoko> Azelphur: <Azelphur> which would mean 4 websites 4 gameservers and an IRC server, probably not a good idea
[20:22] <Azelphur> it's easy enough, just irritating to download, at least it's only 82MB download
[20:22] <Monotoko> I think I came in half way through a convo! :P
[20:23] <Azelphur> Monotoko: yea, they are all running on my server space :D
[20:23] <Azelphur> Monotoko: yea xD
[20:23] <brobostigon> HazRPG: found any coach leads?
[20:23] <Azelphur> only 7 mins to download, not bad :D
[20:23] <ali1234> Azelphur: i'm pretty sure you can tell mysql to ignore everything except one table in the dump you feed it
[20:24] <Azelphur> fun
[20:24] <Azelphur> maybe phpmyadmin has something on that
[20:24]  * Azelphur noses around the import page
[20:25] <ali1234> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1013852/can-i-restore-a-single-table-from-a-full-mysql-mysqldump-file
[20:25] <Azelphur> nothing in phpmyadmin, not to say it isn't there :p
[20:25] <Azelphur> ali1234: nice find, I'll try that :D
[20:29] <Azelphur> yup, looks good :D
[20:30] <Spudulike> I suppose people might still be there, just too drunk tool be on irc?  It'such a rabbit Warren of a pub I can't see a likely group.
[20:31] <brobostigon> ok, coach is out of the question, nothing, zilch.
[20:31] <Azelphur> Spudulike: haha your at the release party?
[20:32] <Azelphur> Spudulike: popey is probably about some place, if he doesn't reply on IRC try tweeting at him.
[20:40] <brobostigon> ok, £11.50 each way, banbury - farnham, return,
[20:46] <Azelphur> ali1234: that sed command worked perfectly, everythings back up and running now :D
[20:46] <Azelphur> Had to poke some of my staff members and ask them why they banned a couple of people over the last 24 hours, haha
[20:54] <jibadeeha> oh man that #ubuntu channel has gone crazy tonight ... anybody would think canonical have just released a new version of Ubuntu
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> the most unstable one ever
[20:55] <jacobw> ;)
[20:55] <jibadeeha> MartijnVdS, it seems that way from watching the scrolling comments flying by my irc window ... it seems very stable to me though on my netbook
[20:55] <Monotoko> seems stable on my computer too
[20:55] <Monotoko> it's not as bad as it was earlier in there
[20:56] <jibadeeha> i think those with nvidia cards are having trouble from what i see
[20:56] <jacobw> hm ~1800 nicks
[20:56] <Monotoko> my clocks wrong >.>
[20:57] <jibadeeha> unity doesn't seem to be getting much praise, but i hope canonical stick with unity
[20:57] <kvarley> Just installed Natty, I can't seem to find how to enable desktop effects. I am looking in Appearance which is where it was in previous versions, has it moved?
[20:58] <jacobw> people don't like change, even people who spend a lot of time talking about it
[20:59] <jibadeeha> i think you hit it on the head there jacobw
[20:59] <kvarley> jibadeeha: I think people aren't adapting to the change very well. I'm still earning the interface but can see why they've chosen the layout and stuff, it works well and is beautiful
[20:59] <kvarley> *learning
[21:00] <brobostigon> i must admit, i am happy with gnome3 and unity, but certainly prefer gnome3. unity still has huge failings, inits operation, and thecooperation with my head.
[21:00] <jibadeeha> i have to admit that when i saw the screenshots of unity a few months ago i thought it was ugly, but having used it for a couple of weeks i think it is work of art and it feels so much better than gnome classic ... you are right it is beautiful
[21:02] <jibadeeha> for me this is the first version of Ubuntu that answers Win7 and OSX .. albeit a few unpolished edges, but it is pretty damn close
[21:04] <jibadeeha> brobostigon, i haven't tried gnome3 but like the screenshots .. heard it isn't very stable though
[21:04] <brobostigon> jibadeeha: its definatly stable, i havent had any gnome3 specific issues in months,
[21:05] <jibadeeha> brobostigon, would you say they are gnome3 and unity are both on par?  suppose it is subjective
[21:07] <brobostigon> jibadeeha: gnome3 and gnome-shell fit better with how i work. unity's workspace management and window management dont work with me properly, and  unity always feel like astriggle to work, whereas gnome-shell just fits right.
[21:10] <jibadeeha> brobostigon, my use case is only really browsing the web, checking email, and irc so probably haven't pushed unity to the limits .. it works well on a netbook for me and i welcome the extra screen space that the global menu provides ... if i was using ubuntu at work then i would probably see the shortfalls and need something like gnome-shell
[21:10] <jibadeeha> tempting to try gnome-shell now
[21:11] <brobostigon> jibadeeha: maybe, yes. but everyone works differently, nd thinks differently, so somthing will work for one person and not for another.
[21:12] <brobostigon> jibadeeha: dont try the gnome3-team ppa, becuase of an error in gnome-session, you might not be able to start unity from gdm, in favour of gnome-shell.
[21:12] <brobostigon> jibadeeha: untill it is fixed.
[21:14] <brobostigon> jibadeeha: or make sure, it doesnt update gnome-session when you install gnome3 from that ppa
[21:15] <jibadeeha> brobostigon, thanks will take note of that .. and will try it on my experimental laptop so i don't mess anything up here
[21:16] <brobostigon> jibadeeha: ok, sounds like a good plan. yes.
[21:22] <brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-sso-client/+bug/745540
[21:22] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 745540 in ubuntu-sso-client (Ubuntu) "Method "CreateItem" with signature "a{sv}(oayay)b" on interface "org.freedesktop.Secret.Collection" doesn't exist" [Medium,Triaged]
[21:22] <brobostigon> it says, a fix is committed, howlong does it take to trickle through?
[21:26] <cbx333> hey guys
[21:26] <brobostigon> good evening cbx333
[21:28] <cbx333> howz it all going guys
[21:28] <cbx333> anyone know what the start up sound in the new ubuntu is like?
[21:30] <brobostigon> cbx333: it is the same as the old one, here
[21:31] <cbx333> w00t w00t
[21:31] <cbx333> my sounds makes it for one more release :)
[21:32]  * cbx333 does a little dance
[21:33]  * cbx333 is contemplating upgrading this machine
[21:33] <cbx333> but it may break a great many things
[21:33] <cbx333> and the hdd is not great - maybe I'll just wait a while till i get a new one
[21:33]  * cbx333 has always had the nice shinyness on the first day
[21:33] <cbx333> it's hard not to press that magic button
[21:39] <dwatkins> the power button?
[21:51] <davmor2> Moo!
[21:52] <brobostigon> BOO!
[21:53] <brobostigon> ok, suggestions, i need something interesting to waste a few hours on.
[21:54] <gord> brobostigon, minecraft?
[21:54] <dutchie> s/hours/weeks/
[21:54] <Guest18290> hi, did anyone have a problem upgrading to 11.04 from 10.10
[21:54] <brobostigon> gord: if i had a copy,
[21:55] <Azelphur> Guest18290: I upgraded 3 months ago, but no :D
[21:55] <Guest18290> i ththought that the release is today
[21:55] <brobostigon> Guest18290: it was,around lunchtime.
[21:57] <Guest18290> it show 11.04 when i click upgrade, it say Could not download the release notes, pleasecheck your connection
[21:58] <Guest18290> i have also try the upgrade via the console and there is a lot of connection failure to the ubuntu server
[21:59] <brobostigon> Guest18290: the repos will probebly be being pummeled right now, with alot of traffic, thatmight be why.
[21:59] <fastspace> best thing to do is download the iso mount with usb or burn a cd and upgrade that way
[21:59] <Guest18290> even the  try ubuntu online is having a problem  try-ubuntu-beta.ec42.net
[22:00] <Guest18290> ok but i do not have a cd burner on my desktop
[22:00] <Guest18290> so i am stock
[22:00] <fastspace> use a usb stick
[22:01] <Guest18290> good idea, thamk you
[22:01] <Guest18290> i have a 1 gb usb is it enough
[22:02] <fastspace> make it with start up disk creator. 1gig should be enough if you dont use any persistent space
[22:03] <Guest18290> ok thanks,
[22:03] <cbx333> i have a box that's not 100% up to date - is it safe to do a dist upgrade?
[22:05] <brobostigon> gord: anything like minecraft, but OSS, and free?
[22:05] <brobostigon> cbx333: i would wait untill the traffic on the servers calms down.
[22:06] <cbx333> I'm sure it was quicker than this last time
[22:10] <Guest18290> when i format my usb should i format as FAT or compatible with EXT4
[22:10] <brobostigon> Guest18290: startup disk creator will do the formatting for you.
[22:11] <Guest18290> Thank you, much appreciate your help
[22:11] <brobostigon> :) you're welcome.
[22:21] <gord> brobostigon, no idea sorry, open source games aren't great :(
[22:21] <brobostigon> gord: ok,phwell.
[22:22] <brobostigon> ohwell*
[22:22] <brobostigon> gord: i did find a good OSStron game the other day.
[22:22] <gord> brobostigon, this will keep you going for a while though :) http://www.foddy.net/GIRP.html
[22:23] <brobostigon> gord: let me look, :)
[22:28] <Guest96279> hi there
[22:29]  * brobostigon is on the lastbits of his easter egg.
[22:57] <hamitron> meh, everyone will be out partying tonight?
[22:59] <brobostigon> nope,
[22:59] <brobostigon> :(
[22:59] <hamitron> :/
[23:03] <hamitron> OH
[23:04] <hamitron> new google apps users have a lower user limit
[23:04] <hamitron> or will so after 10th May
[23:04] <brobostigon> yes.
[23:05] <hamitron> I sort of expected them to make changes
[23:05] <hamitron> any private company would do so to increase income, once a product starts to take off
[23:06] <hamitron> I am only surprised someone like facebook hasn't started charging for extras
[23:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Kubuntu 11.04 for the Upgrade - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4420
[23:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu 11.04 Natty Narwhal Released - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/28/ubuntu-11-04-natty-narwhal-released/
[23:10] <Nafallo> hamitron: what on facebook would you actually pay for?
[23:16] <brobostigon> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3
[23:16] <brobostigon> interesting,
[23:25] <hamitron> Nafallo: I dunno, I not actually used it
[23:26] <hamitron> but they have a huge user base to exploit
[23:26] <hamitron> ;)
[23:28] <hamitron> brobostigon: I hate changes to major libs :(
[23:30] <hamitron> s/exploit/"tap into"
[23:32] <brobostigon> hamitron: it doesnt really bother me, ihavent noticed any issues with the change to gtk3, nor any issues. so please elaborate.
[23:33] <hamitron> change requires changes to apps that rely on them
[23:33] <hamitron> as a summary
[23:33] <brobostigon> hence gnome3,
[23:33] <brobostigon> as a whole.
[23:33] <hamitron> but then you have old apps and stuff
[23:33] <brobostigon> updates in gnome as a whole to.
[23:33] <hamitron> Gnome itself is not the hassle
[23:34] <brobostigon> hamitron: sure, but i havent seen any issues yet.
[23:34] <hamitron> issues with what?
[23:34] <hamitron> old apps?
[23:34] <brobostigon> older gtk* apps,with gnome3.
[23:34] <hamitron> but you will need the older gtk installed?
[23:35] <brobostigon> i have both, i think, at the moment, yes.
[23:35] <hamitron> that is my problem
[23:35] <hamitron> ;)
[23:35] <Monotoko> do you guys know how to open multiple terminals in unity?
[23:35] <brobostigon> hamitron: however i am sure, it would be possible without, i might try it, and see what happens,
[23:36] <brobostigon> Monotoko: inside terminal's file menu, open terminal.
[23:36] <hamitron> I just find it frustrating having different apps needing a different lib, that basically does the same as another lib I already have
[23:36] <Nafallo> Monotoko: ctrl alt t
[23:37] <brobostigon> Nafallo's suggestion is better.
[23:37] <Monotoko> ctrl alt t...great thank you :D
[23:37] <hamitron> :)
[23:38] <brobostigon> hamitron: maybe,but iam sure, gtk3 improves in alot of ways,upon gtk2, otherwise there would be no point in improving or updating or bug fixing anything.
[23:39] <hamitron> yeh
[23:39] <hamitron> but still hassle :/
[23:39] <hamitron> I guess I can forgive gtk, as it seems to at least stick to 1 version for a decent amount of time
[23:39] <brobostigon> hamitron: and i am sure, gtk3 is mostly backward compatible, aswell.
[23:40] <hamitron> but some things (like android) as a base, are rapidly changing
[23:40] <hamitron> and it makes a moving target for app devs :/
[23:40] <brobostigon> hamitron: i doubt theywill port gtk3 to android, really.
[23:41] <hamitron> it isn't about gtk only, just the principle of moving targets
[23:41] <hamitron> and it is one reason the commercial sector often don't support linux as a platform
[23:41] <brobostigon> hamitron: like gnome itself,it gets gradual and steady improvement and fixes over time.
[23:42] <hamitron> gnome and gtk are not the worst offenders of my complaint
[23:43] <hamitron> ;/
[23:43] <brobostigon> elaborate.
[23:43] <hamitron> "one reason the commercial sector often don't support linux as a platform"
[23:44] <hamitron> different parts move at different speeds, and it is very hard to support such a wide range of software setups
[23:45] <brobostigon> hamitron: ubuntu and debianare good examples, they are consistant and stable, for lengthy mounts of time, 6 onths in ubuntu's case, todebian in years.
[23:45] <hamitron> 6 months is nothing
[23:45] <hamitron> even the lts with 3 years is not that long
[23:46] <brobostigon> 3 years is huge development cycle time,
[23:46] <hamitron> most my clients cry at the idea of having to upgrade at all ;)
[23:46] <brobostigon> and consistant over the whole of thatperiod.
[23:47] <brobostigon> hamitron: even bug fix, upgrade?
[23:47] <brobostigon> and stability upgrade?
[23:47] <hamitron> they like bug fixes
[23:47] <hamitron> but not developments that break compatibility
[23:48] <hamitron> some sectors, like the public sector have it easy with funding
[23:48] <brobostigon> hamitron: in debians case, thathappens only with maybe, with every stablerelease, but not stricktly so.
[23:49] <hamitron> to some, IT upgrades are just a cut taken out of the profits
[23:49] <hamitron> ;)
[23:50] <brobostigon> with upgrades there are many upside a downside considerations, it isnt  solelya money consideration.
[23:50] <hamitron> more often than not, for the average user it just looks a bit different
[23:51] <hamitron> doesn't actually improve something that does the job already
[23:52] <brobostigon> well, gnome-shell for me, improves alot on gnome2, which always worked, ok, but not really  well. to gnome-shell which with allthe improvments, works excellantly.
[23:53] <hamitron> it isn't about the software provided with the distro though :/
[23:53] <hamitron> it is about 3rd party software that depends on other stuff
[23:54] <hamitron> if you take any linux distro in isolation, they are generally improving
[23:54] <brobostigon> umm, flash? java?
[23:54] <hamitron> I agree
[23:55] <hamitron> I'm talking commercial software
[23:55] <hamitron> :)
[23:55] <brobostigon> those two are, commercialsoftware,
[23:55] <hamitron> I mean real stuff
[23:55] <hamitron> £25k jobs
[23:55] <hamitron> ;/
[23:56] <hamitron> flash and java don't cost a user on upgrading
[23:56] <hamitron> apart from some testing
[23:57] <brobostigon> hamitron: it does, here because on natty, on a certain kms a intel driver conbination, flashcauses gpulockup hang, so using flash costs alot.
[23:57] <brobostigon> compared to previously.
[23:57] <hamitron> another example of changes that can burn then
[23:58] <brobostigon> thats issue is a combination of many factors.
[23:58] <hamitron> Xorg updating so fast nvidia won't provided new drivers for old hardware is another
[23:58] <brobostigon> that nvidia, not wanted to write anything,
[23:59] <hamitron> no, it is the fault of the linux distro also
[23:59] <brobostigon> nouveau, doing the same work, its providing, as far as i cansee,supported for older nvidia chipsets,