[00:01] <ChinnoDog> Tornado watch this evening
[00:48] <andrew> fun
[01:25] <waltman> mmm, bacon
[01:26] <andrew> and beer
[01:26] <andrew> and pleia2
[01:26] <waltman> (breakfast for dinner)++
[01:31] <pleia2> I don't have a passion for bacon
[01:32] <waltman> !
[01:41]  * rmg51 had bacon with dinner tonight
[01:52] <ChinnoDog> mmm, pleia2?
[01:57] <Irishmanluke> it has often been said that bacon is the most delicous of all salty breakfast meats
[01:57] <Irishmanluke> so delicious in fact that it is banned by certain religions
[01:58] <ChinnoDog> I do not think it is banned because it is delicious
[02:06] <Irishmanluke> ChinnoDog: the fact is that it is both banned and delicious
[02:07] <Irishmanluke> I'm not saying you have to extrapolate
[11:06] <JonathanD> Morning.
[11:10] <toggles> Ciao
[11:15] <rmg51> morning JonathanD, toggles o/
[11:17] <JonathanD> morning rmg51
[11:18] <JonathanD> howdy toggles
[12:47] <toggles> oh, it's out now..
[12:47] <toggles> git sum!!
[12:47] <toggles> salva JonathanD
[12:48] <JonathanD> Hello
[13:39] <teddy-dbear> ok world wake up already
[13:40] <teddy-dbear> why are there no seeders for 11.04?
[13:43] <andrew> has it been released?
[13:43] <andrew> guess so
[13:53] <jedijf> so getting alpha yesterday was kind of dumb....stroy of my life
[13:59] <teddy-dbear> going to be slow download :P
[14:01] <andrew> teddy-dbear: torrent
[14:01] <andrew> oh
[14:01] <andrew> hrm
[14:01] <andrew> really, no seeders?
[14:02] <teddy-dbear> some, just not that many
[14:03] <teddy-dbear> desktop = 13 peers no download
[14:04] <jedijf> i got 58 on alternate
[14:04] <andrew> teddy-dbear: so join them and make it one more
[14:04] <jedijf> 62 now
[14:04] <andrew> are you going to be part of the problem, or part of the solution?
[14:05] <jedijf> andrew robbins?
[14:05] <andrew> hrm, I've never bothered torrenting ubuntu while at work... but since last release, we've had fios installed...
[14:05] <andrew> tempting...
[14:05] <teddy-dbear> I'm downloading all 4 iso's
[14:05] <andrew> oh wait, hdd is full
[14:06] <jedijf> hmmm, should got a hd instead of fios :D
[14:06] <teddy-dbear> sad excuse
[14:09] <andrew> jedijf: actually, have the space, just in an unused partition... if I could somehow merge unused partition with /home partition, without losing data, i would
[14:14] <jedijf> this is killing my lowly work net.....
[14:15]  * jedijf can't get fios here.....butt heads
[14:18] <knightzero> Hmm....this is the first time I've upgraded on release day.  Never seen a 7 hour timer for "Getting new packages"
[14:18] <ssweeny> anything interesting happening in the Free Software world today? things have been quiet
[14:21] <andrew> knightzero: torrent the alt disc, upgrade from that
[14:22] <knightzero> I would, but I can't be bothered with mounting ISOs this early in the morning, and my laptop is sans optical drive.
[14:22] <knightzero> It can take its sweet time, I've got all day.
[14:23] <jedijf> ssweeny: nothing since 4/24 actually.........
[14:23] <jedijf> i have my sources.....
[14:27] <JonathanD> I'll update next week :P
[14:30]  * teddy-dbear uses alt disc to upgrade
[14:31] <teddy-dbear> at least that silly human of mine does :-D
[14:31] <toggles> i'm waiting for the unity crying to die down a bit before i try
[14:34]  * ssweeny is considering updating his workstation to natty, even though he's only using it for another week
[14:49] <andrew> perfect, no risk if something bad happens
[14:50] <ssweeny> good point
[14:50] <ssweeny> this won't be my machine in a few days anyway
[15:02]  * ssweeny pulls the trigger
[15:43] <knightzero> I've broken down and decided to use the alt-cd upgrade method.  I don't have the patience to wait two days.
[16:07] <ChinnoDog> Looks like btrfsck doesn't work yet in natty either. haha. I think I better go back to striped ext4 and then upgrade.
[16:09] <ChinnoDog> Is there a way to account for disks of different speeds with LVM? I have two 80GB 10k drives and a 250gb 7.5k drive. Any point to adding the 7.5k to the same VG as the first two?
[19:53] <andrew> I'm bored, is it safe to take the plunge?
[19:54] <ChinnoDog> What is the plunge?
[19:54] <pleia2> upgrading
[19:54] <andrew> ^
[19:54] <ChinnoDog> Oh, that plunge.
[19:55] <knightzero> I haven't had much luck upgrading, but I think that's my fault.
[19:58] <ssweeny> it'll take about a day just to download
[20:00] <knightzero> Even using an install from ISO method, it seems to be ignoring requests not to download updates, and still pulls from the net.
[20:17] <teddy-dbear> I've been downloading iso's all day
[20:17] <teddy-dbear> very slow
[20:18] <knightzero> I managed to torrent every version in about 45 minutes - I figured the servers would be a bit hefty, but I've got bandwidth to contribute to the torrents.
[20:21] <teddy-dbear> not helping me :P
[21:21] <rhpot1991> thats why you upgrade before release day :)
[21:21] <pleia2> or 3 weeks after :)
[21:21]  * pleia2 never did get around to upgrading to maverick
[21:21] <pleia2> oops
[21:23] <ssweeny> too late now
[21:24] <pleia2> I want to use xubuntu 11.04 though, so I'll just pick a weekend in June and do them both at once
[21:29] <waltman> is there a lot os shiny new stuff in the new xfce?
[21:29] <waltman> s/os/of/
[21:30] <pleia2> it's pretty shiny out of the box, transparent dock-like bottom panel
[21:30] <pleia2> but mostly I care that it now uses the gnome menu editor, 4.6 had no menu editor
[21:31] <pleia2> could hack at the config files manually, but I am lazy
[21:31] <waltman> nod
[21:31] <waltman> is this new gnome thing worth checking out?
[21:32] <pleia2> unity? they tell me it's actually pretty neat once you get used to it
[21:32] <waltman> Unity?
[21:32] <PennBot> Somebody said Unity is shiny, waltman
[21:32] <waltman> thanks, PennBot
[21:33] <pleia2> well, there is unity, which is the new default UI for Ubuntu, and there is Gnome3 which has a similar new UI for Gnome (won't hit Ubuntu until 11.10, and won't be default)
[21:34] <waltman> Ah. For some reason I thought unity was gnome.
[21:34] <ChinnoDog> Based on my experience upgrading Ubuntu over the years I am beginning to think it is better to write an configuration script for setting up Ubuntu and install a fresh Ubuntu every time there is a new one
[21:34] <waltman> ChinnoDog: that's part of the reason I'm still on debian testing :)
[21:35] <ChinnoDog> Is that the best? I mean, I /never/ run Windows upgrades for this reason. It gets ugly and you end up with legacy stuff.
[21:35] <waltman> Well, there aren't ever any new versions of debian testing. You just keep updating packages, that's all.
[21:35] <ChinnoDog> And when I was dependent on my windows box, I did have all the software I needed in one place so I could reinstall everything quick
[21:36] <waltman> before debian I was on redhat, and new versions were a pain
[21:36] <ChinnoDog> Doing that lets you upgrade to the latest packages, but there is other metadata that is in new releases. Different software, different config files that represent different ways of setting up existing software.
[21:37] <waltman> I suppose there is some cruft this way, but nothing that I ever notice.
[21:37] <waltman> debian's really good about updating the config files, too
[21:38] <waltman> occasionally you'll get something that's not backwards-compatible and you have to make changes. The last one I recall was apache2.
[21:38] <ChinnoDog> For example, if I was using Rythmbox before and then I updated to Natty, it would just upgrade Rythmbox instead of moving me to Banshee, right?
[21:38] <waltman> I don't have any idea what those packages are.
[21:39] <ChinnoDog> The prepackaged music managers!
[21:40] <waltman> But do you want it to do that? What about all the music you've got stored in the old package?  Will it auto-convert it?
[21:40] <waltman> where "auto-convert" means "do whatever is necessary so banshee knows about all your music in rhythmbox"?
[21:40] <rhpot1991> I'm not a fan of unity so far
[21:41] <rhpot1991> it really doesn't play nicely with dual monitor setups, especially if you use the right monitor as your primary
[21:41] <ChinnoDog> idk. Another open loop. If Microsoft upgrades Media Player it is expected to import your old stuff. Why wouldn't that hold true for Ubuntu?
[21:41]  * waltman shrugs
[21:45] <pleia2> waltman: Unity is a project that was launched because Canonical didn't like the direction that Gnome3 was going in and wanted to make something better, so they tried to help patch Gnome3 to make it better *insert drama and chaos here*
[21:45] <pleia2> open source is so much fun
[21:47] <pleia2> (had a conference call with Mark about this earlier in the week)
[21:55] <waltman> So Ubuntu's not all standing around singing Kumbaya? :)
[21:55] <waltman> windowmaker++ :)
[21:56] <pleia2> according to Mark they tried, but Gnome is notoriously difficult to work with when you disagree with them
[21:56] <pleia2> and yeah
[21:56] <pleia2> xfce++
[21:57] <pleia2> the divergence is troubling though, I guess we'll see where Unity lands in all of this
[21:57] <pleia2> will all the distros go with Gnome3? will some go with Unity?
[21:57] <waltman> windowmaker++
[21:58] <pleia2> either way, both are major UI changes that will probably scare people :)
[21:58] <waltman> change is scary :)
[21:58] <waltman> ok, time to head to the train.  later.
[21:58] <pleia2> on the one hand I can speak personally that using linux is all about choice and flexibility, so I don't care who is doing what
[21:58] <pleia2> on the other hand I do have to deal with normal people using Ubuntu, and defaults matter there
[21:59] <pleia2> anyway, later :)
[22:00] <jedijf> maybe this will force people to /comprehend/ their choices
[22:01] <jedijf> on de's and wm's
[22:01] <pleia2> that's comedy gold
[22:01] <jedijf> s/on/of
[22:01] <jedijf> you shot that down with the quickness
[22:01] <pleia2> yeah, it's like telling me I care what oil I put in my car
[22:01] <jedijf> stop with the sensible analogies
[22:02] <jedijf> they will finally get it
[22:02] <pleia2> btw, never mix the green and the orange stuff when messing with coolant, it's expensive to get it flushed out and they are corrosive together
[22:02] <pleia2> poor blinker
[22:08] <rmg51> bandwidth is better at home
[22:09] <rmg51> torrents are moving along now
[23:03] <rmg51> much better, 2 are done 3rd is almost done
[23:18] <JonathanD> my chair is all broken and stuff :(
[23:19] <waltman> :(
[23:20] <JonathanD> wind blew it over  Iguess.
[23:20] <JonathanD> it's like plastic wicker or something.
[23:20] <JonathanD> my favorite grilling chair :(
[23:20] <rmg51> all my downloads are done :-D
[23:21] <JonathanD> rmg51: you wouldn't download a chair!
[23:21] <rmg51> Teddy might
[23:35] <waltman> So if you want to stay up-to-date with Ubuntu, do you end up downloading a new iso every 6 months and reinstalling?
[23:37] <knightzero> you can just upgrade from within the OS.  If you stick with LTS releases, you can avoid the distribution upgrade process every 6 months as well.
[23:37] <rmg51> I upgrade every 6 months
[23:37] <waltman> does the "upgrade from within the OS" basically just download the new .debs?
[23:38] <pleia2> it's the same as debian
[23:38] <pleia2> when squeeze comes out you just point your sources from lenny to squeeze, dist-upgrade
[23:38] <pleia2> (ubuntu wants you to do-release-upgrade though)
[23:38] <rmg51> but I don't reinstall unless something goes wrong
[23:38] <pleia2> yeah, I never reinstall or burn new isos
[23:39] <waltman> gotcha
[23:39] <rmg51> I now install from the alt disc
[23:39] <rmg51> I had 2 bad upgrades on this laptop
[23:40] <knightzero> rmg51: is there a decent way to do that and keep ubuntu from looking to the web for the latest updates?  I tried earlier, but it still started downloading stuff.
[23:40] <rmg51> just started upgrading the external
[23:41] <knightzero> I saw the option not to within the setup and selected it, but it went ahead and did what it wanted - I was too lazy to fight with it.
[23:41] <rmg51> knightzero: you should get a choice when you insert the alt disc
[23:42] <rmg51> I just let it get what it wants
[23:42] <waltman> what's an alt disc?
[23:42] <rmg51> there are 2 types of discs
[23:42] <rmg51> the live desktop disc
[23:42] <rmg51> and the alt
[23:42] <rmg51> the alt is a text only install disc
[23:43] <rmg51> the alt disc lets you upgrade from within the os
[23:43] <waltman> what's a live desktop?
[23:44] <knightzero> alt also makes standard installs to a machine with less than 512mb of memory less of an exercise in patience.
[23:45] <knightzero> waltman: with the live disk, you can boot to ubuntu straight from the CD - to test hardware compatibility and see if you like the OS before writing anything to your hard drive.
[23:45] <knightzero> take out the live disk without installing and you boot back to whatever was there in the first place.
[23:45] <waltman> nod
[23:46] <rmg51> or install with a GUI background
[23:47] <waltman> gui, schmui
[23:50] <rmg51> some people get more comfort with a gui install
[23:51] <rmg51> not as scary